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The Red Sox are going nowhere [Promoted Diary]

Alright.  I know some will think this is a "sky is falling" post.  But, in all reality it is.  This Red Sox team had a 14 game lead in the division a mere couple of months ago.  This morning, that lead stands at 5 games...and will shrink further. Soon we will be chasing the Yankees.  Seriously, when Meicer Itzturis starts beating you, you got problems.  After an honest assessment of the 2007 version of the Red Sox, I have come to this conclusion: The Yankees are going to win the division and we will be embarrassed as we lost a 14 game lead.  We will be lucky to make the playoffs.  My reasoning is as follows:

1)Our pitching.  Given, it has seemed to be a strong point all season, but let's face it.  It is shaky.  With the exception of Beckett, Schilling looks old.  C'mon, Meicer Itzturis hitting a home run off you?  Wakefield has just been plain awful.  Matsuzaka?  Who knows which pitcher will show up?  Lester?  Same thing.  He is still young and I expect big things from him.  But to expect him to go out every fifth day and be lights out?  Not reality.

The bullpen (middle relief)does not look that strong.  Timlin is frightening.  Delcarmen has been awful recently.  Other than Okijima and Papelbon, who do you feel comfortable with?  Tavarez?  Please.  Compare our starters alone to the Yankees now.  Clemens, Mussina, Petitte, Wang and Hughes.  Schilling, Beckett, Matsuzaka, Wakefield, Lester.  Not really an advantage on either side.  Again, the only one I feel comfortable with is Beckett.  Big deal that we traded for Gagne...if we cannot get to him with the lead, who cares?

2)Our defense.  My God.  Lugo has to be the worst defensive shortstop we have had in a long time, (I will cover his offense in point 3).  Mike Lowell has been awful defensively.  Coco Crisp has been making some nice catches, but his arm is about as strong as Johnny Damon's.  Manny?  Please.  The guy plays a deep shortstop.  How many hits has he given up because he is playing so shallow?

3)Offense.  This year's offensive version of the Red Sox is well, offensive.  Julio Lugo, Coco Crisp, JD Drew. Good God.  They are just plain awful.  JD Drew = $70 million mistake.  Julio Lugo is making $9 million a year to boot every third ground ball hit to him and bat .200.  Nice job, Theo.  Manny looks old.  Papi is not himself.  This team has no clutch hitting at all.  If we do not have a lead after the fifth inning, game over.  The only bright spots have been Pedroia and Youk.  Let's be honest, Papi is not Papi.  Manny is not Manny.

Which brings us to the Yankees.  Are you kidding me?  Who would you take offensively on the Red Sox right now over the Yankees?  Nobody.  They are scoring 8-10 runs a game.  Even if their pitching falters, they just outslug teams.  It is simply ridiculous.  Giambi is coming back and they have nowhere to put him...they cannot find a place for a left handed power hitter! Given, they haven't faced Cy Young candidates every night but they have taken advantage of any situation they have been given.  Yet, we face mediocre pitching and they baffle our hitters, (Baltimore series).  there have been no late inning dramatics or any comebacks this year.  In years past, I would watch and feel comfortable that Papi or Manny would come through at the end of the game.  I certainly do not have that comfort this year.

Convince me, please.  How do we hold off the Yankees?  How do we improve?  I just don't see it happening this year.  I believe we needed a bat at the deadline to jump start this offense. Maybe it's Magadan.  Maybe our power guys are getting old.  Theo needs to be held more accountable also.  JD Drew and Julio Lugo are the two worst decisions he has made.  OK, I forgot Wily Mo.  How much longer do we stay with Coco?  Can we please bring up Jacoby?  I hope I am wrong.  I certainly do not want to listen to the Yankee fans and the media gloat over the Yankees catching us and the Red Sox choking.  You know the national media is rooting for it...

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Re: This team is going nowhere
I think the upcoming series with the Yanks will be more important than anyone thought it would be earlier in the season.  It will be a do or die.

by BlowUp on Aug 8, 2007 9:52 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: This team is going nowhere
Couple Points:
  • Crisp: his numbers after the ASB look like this: .313 BA, .389 OBP, 15 R, 17 RBI, he's doing just fine
  • Our ERA and WHIP 7th inning and beyond is 2.90 and 1.17, 2nd best in all of the Majors, our bullpen is just fine (btw, Snyder is our primary long relief, not Tavarez, and he's been pretty reliable), and as for Delcarmen, he had one shaky game where he gave up 2 HR to tampa bay, since then he's been scoreless while allowing just 4 runners on in 4 inning (which is decent), not sure if you're concluding that he's been "awful" based on watching that one game, but he's been anything but awful
  • You're giving the Yankees rotation way too much credit, Hughes isn't quite major league ready (as evident by his last outing where he gave up 6 runs in 4 innings to KANSAS CITY!), Clemens, Mussina and Pettite aren't the pitchers they use to be (Clemens since ASB: 4.45 ERA (which doesn't fully paint the picture considerin one game he gave up 8 runs in one 2 innings, but only 3 were earned because of an early inning error) 1.42 WHIP, Pettite last 10 games, 5.86 ERA 1.78 WHIP, Mussina Post ASB numbers: 4.76 ERA 1.62 WHIP
  • You're giving our rotation too little credit, Yeah Dice-K will have his bad outing now and then, but he's still been better then anyone on the Yankee's rotation, (His numbers since ASB: 3.16     ERA 1.37 WHIP). Lester is in the same boat as Hughes, they'll both have great games one night, and then blown out other nights, simply because of inexperience (with maybe Hughes doping slightly better simply because he has more potential), Schilling and Wakefield are shadows of their former self just as much as the Yankee pitchers I noted above, so that's a wash
  • Yankee's offence: Not only have they been playing crappy teams lately (which alone will cause their numbers to drop when they start playing good teams), but they are nothing more then on a hot streak, they are playing way beyond their skill and will come back down to earth (notice here some names who recently have been on a tear, and as their career numbers show, they simply are not that good, and won't keep hitting like that, most notable example: Phillips with career numbers of .247 BA, .286 OBP, is hitting .305 BA, .344 OBP last 68 at bats; Melky with career .288 BA, .354 OBP is hitting .358 BA .408 OBP, etc., if you compare all those numbers with their career numbers you'll notice that everyone is grossly overperforming, they will come back down to earth)
  • Our offence is top 5 in all of the majors in every batting statistic post ASB (except HR, which with Ortiz and Manny not hitting as many is down), or offence is not as bad as you're making it out to be.
Bottom line, Yankees have hit a hot streak and we've held them off, their bound to cool down and maybe even hit a cool streak where we'll go back to gaining games on them again. I'd waiting to see if they can keep the hot streak going against teams that are half decent before I start getting worried

by Realistic on Aug 8, 2007 12:14 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: This team is going nowhere
Also on point five...not only have the Yankees been playing crap teams but they've been somehow missing the number 1 starter on those teams for their series.  I don't have all the data in front of me, but it seems like things are about to get rough for the Yanks and we're just panicing here.  Stop it.  I'm done with that kind of mentality as a Sox supporter.  If it happens, it happens...shit.  But do we have to keep shaking in our boots every time the Yanks get a hit in some game with teams way under .500?
Please.  Talk to me on August 30th.
You can take the boy outta Boston, but you can't take the Boston outta the boy.

by B Cap on Aug 8, 2007 6:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Series with the Yankees
... will be incredibly important, agreed.  I'm hoping for a "Slaughter on 161st Street" to avenge last year's "Boston Massacre II."  

On to the substance of the diary:

1)  Pitching---are you crazy?  Beckett's not just the bright side of our rotation, he's a legitimate-if-not-quite-favored Cy Young candidate.  Matsuzaka has his trouble spots but is otherwise a win- and strikeout-generating machine.  Our fourth starter Wakefield is 13-10 (! did I mention "fourth starter"?), Lester's a young kid with a lot of upside, and then you have our "ace," who's admittedly struggled with injuries but has had moments of brilliance and still is a contribution to the rotation.

But the starters are just half of it.  The Red Sox have not just the best 'pen in the American League, but a 'pen that is strikingly better than the rest of the AL (a stat I got from Baseball Prospectus this morning says they're 11.96 in WXRL, compared to 10.05 for the second-best Twins, and far ahead of the fifth-best Indians, with 7.86).  Bottom line, our pitching is something to be envied, not bemoaned.  

  1.  Defense---maybe you're not crazy, exactly.  If Lugo makes that double play last night, the inning ends tied 4-4, Wakefield stays in longer.... I don't want to think about it anymore.  Manny is still being Manny in left.  Lowell?  I haven't noticed.  Overall, however, our defense is solid---fifth in the majors by fielding percentage.  You mentioned Coco---did you forget about Dusty and Youk?  Varitek?  
  2.  Offense---umm, I'm swinging back to "are you crazy."  Fourth in the majors in runs scored.  Fourth.  Yes, the Yankees and Tigers are ahead of us.  They're also 15th/19th in pitching (team ERA), and we're 2nd.  Batting is only half the game, and it counts for less than half the game in the playoffs.
Let me back off for a second:  The offense is not what we thought it would be; in fact, it's the part of the team that is the biggest negative surprise.  Who would have thought Manny couldn't protect Ortiz, or that Ortiz would not actually need any protection because he's got a severe case of the warning-track-itis?  And the Red Sox are still first?  This doesn't seem to me a terrible cause for concern as much as a source of hopeful anticipation---if and when Ortiz and Manny get back to their old form, the Sox are going to be scary.  

The Yankees....  Hey, I'll cop to it.  I'm a bit spooked.  I really, really, really don't want my hundred or so Yankee fan friends (I live in New York) gloating about some grand comeback from 14 1/2 back all offseason.  However, the Yanks have a really soft schedule.  They're playing a crippled Toronto while we're playing a great Angels squad.  They just feasted on Royals pitching while the Sox were struggling against the Central leading Cleveland.  Guess what? the soft schedule is coming to an end soon---they face Cleveland, Anaheim, Detroit and the Red Sox.  Their offense has been explosive as of late, but there's a reason they're not on pace to score 1,620 runs this season---they're not going to score 10 runs a game.  

"Lucky to make the playoffs"?  Okay, it's official:  You're crazy.  Someone needs to take away your shoelaces.  If the Red Sox play .600 ball the rest of the way they'll be 98-64.  You know how many games we play against Tampa Bay (12), Chicago (4) and Baltimore (7) during that stretch?  47% of the remaining games, with the Rays comprising roughly one quarter of our schedule.  

None of this should be taken as "don't worry they'll be fine everything is copacetic."  I'm concerned, too.  But a five game lead isn't something to bemoan, as much as I'd like to be looking at a 19 1/2 lead and a possible elimination party at Yankee stadium.  I think all this pessimism is exaggerated.

Tony the Pony

by Tony the pony on Aug 8, 2007 12:31 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

buh
got scared?

"...
Soon we will be chasing the Yankees.
..."

LOL

relax, we WILL win the division.

1)
ERA  3.79 1st (AL) (2nd in ML out of the AL EAST!!!)
BA-A .250 1st (AL)
BS   4 1st (AL) (Yanks 2nd with 5 then)
ER-A 424 1st (AL)
HR-A 3rd
and on and on and on

i'll take this "shaky" pitching staff every League every Year.

2)
the defense is bad this year.
Lugo is worse.
Crisp has a much better arm than Damon.
Manny is a hitter.
i am concerned about the defense of Drew. he should be a great fielder but he is not this year. we paid enough to figure out in time if this contract is really as bad as it looks now.

3)
R   580 3rd (AL) (MFY 1st with 674!)
OPS .799 3rd (AL)
GDP 105 tied 2nd (AL) (and it feels like even more if you watch the sox this year)
HR 113 9th

Papi is/was hurt.
Manny is/will be fine.
i can not explain what happens with Drew at all, just hope he will be better in oct.
Lugo, hmm?
Lugo...
LUGO SUXX BIG TIME.
he ever did.
i can not see where the sox will have a good thing out of this contract (if he steals some important bases in the postseason i will calm down a little).

so we have a middelinfielder (SS) who can't field and hit but earns a lot of money (above 8000k). we have to live with that.
(this kind of situation is not a new one to sox fans. we just have a good all around team today to let forget about it sometimes. i would not be surprised if Lugo ends up at 1B.)

ahh, wait ther is one other stat that might be interesting for you:
W-L 68-45 1st ML !!!!

THE SOX ARE THE BEST TEAM IN BASEBALL RIGHT NOW!!!

just don't panic.
grab a beer, relax and enjoy the ride.

by OilCanBoyd on Aug 8, 2007 12:32 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: The Red Sox are going nowhere [Promoted Diary]
I think all three of us were composing our overlong missives on the same theme at the same time, so let me just say:  

Indizzle, Oil Can and Realistic.  

Tony the Pony

by Tony the pony on Aug 8, 2007 12:38 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Doesn't it hurt to wring your hands that hard?
If the Sox sucked as bad as you say, and they've been sucking all season, as you say, we wouldn't be the best freakin team in baseball.

And I don't know if you noticed or not, but we just won in Seattle TWICE where we hadn't been able to do so before that all season.

What would Dogbert do?

by panzermensch on Aug 8, 2007 1:32 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

It is not how you start, but how you finish
For all you blind Red Sox optimist fans here, it is not how you start, but how you finish! The track record of the Sox on starting strong and staying strong is very poor, IMO.  The team I have been watching the last 2 weeks is not of championship team caliber, and even if they squeak into the playoffs (as a wildcard team maybe), they will go nowhere.  After the series with the Yanks, it is likely over. It is not the weak teams that show championship caliber status, but how you do against the good ones. This team fails that test!

I know you do not want to hear this, and I do not like saying it, but the stretch-run talent, the stretch-run killer instinct is not there with this team for all the reasons the diary author stated.  I know all the optimists will attack with their blotted views of this team, but what you are seeing lately is what you really have, not what you are hoping to have!  

by NG on Aug 8, 2007 1:34 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: It is not how you start, but how you finish
I agree.  I am a huge Sox fan, believe me.  But I am realistic.  This team has not shown the killer instinct.  They have looked bad recently.  But you are right.  The ever eternal optimists will say, "we have the best record in baseball", "the Yankees haven't played anyone", "they will be alright".  Well, I hope you are right.  But I have absolutely no confidence in this team right now.  Not in any player, with the exception of Youk and Pedroia.  But, I am sure Francona will move Youk back to the five spot where he has been awful.  No need to leave him at two where he has teared it up...<sarcasm>

by cblesz on Aug 8, 2007 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: It is not how you start, but how you finish
While the Sox' play has been uninspired lately, simply put, I would not trade places with the Yankees.
"You know you're having a bad day when the fifth inning rolls around and they drag the warning track." - Mike Flanagan, Baltimore Orioles pitcher, 1992.

by SoxDevil on Aug 9, 2007 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: The Red Sox are going nowhere [Promoted Diary]
First of all, I am not crazy.  Simply saying "he will be fine" in response to a players RECENT performance is not enough.  I see too many bad trends developing and the team has looked like the Keystone Kops as of late.  In response to your specifics...

Tony:I gave Beckett his kudos.  Without him, we would be much worse.  I really do not care if Wakefield is our ace or our fifth starter.  He is just plain awful.  Out of his 13 wins, how much run support has he gotten?  The guy's ERA is 4.81.  Where specifically has Shilling been brilliant this season other than the Oakland game?  His fast ball is not getting over 90 anymore.  Statistically, the Sox may have the best pen in the league.  But those numbers were generated the first half of the season.  I would be curious to see how the ERA stacks up post all star break.  Lowell?  Are you serious?  Defensively he has been AWFUL.  I also gave kudos to Pedroia and Youk.  And no, Coco's arm is NOT much better than Damon's.  Varitek has been awful at the plate lately also...and can he throw anybody out anymore?  As far as offense...again, you have to look into the numbers.  I am sure we have many games where we scored 8-10 runs, which inflates our numbers.  But, there are CERTAINLY several more where we do absolutely nothing...against mediocre pitching.  We keep saying as fans, "as soon as Manny and Papi get going".  Um, it is now August.  When do you expect that to happen?  The way they have been playing, they will be lucky to play .500 ball.  You really think they can play .600?

Realistic:  Crisp is NOT doing just fine.  He had a hot streak recently which elevated his numbers.  Again, look more closely at our bullpen numbers and when they were generated as I am sure after the ASB they are much worse.  And, you are referring to the 7th and beyond.  Which of course takes into account Papelbon and Okajima of which I gave kudos.  Other than them, who are you comfortable with?  Delcarmen was not too solid last night either.  I never gave the Yankee rotation any credit.  I just saw no difference in their rotation and ours.  Wang and Beckett are pretty close.  Other than that, swap any of the pitchers and you have the same guy.  Dice-K's ERA not much better than Pettitte.  Yankees on nothing more than a hot streak and playing above their talent?  Are you serious?  They are mashing the ball.  With the talent they have they SHOULD be scoring 8-10 runs a game.  Melky is a second year player.  Not sure you can use his career numbers...I guess you forgot about Jeter, ARod, Posada, Matsui, Cano, Abreu...right, they suck.  I agree with you that they have been playing AAA teams.  But, we have not really dominated the bad teams either.  Remember the KC series?

OilCan:  I would be a bit more concerned about Drew's offense rather than his defense.  All the pitcher needs to do is throw that slider away and he waves at it.  Again, let's look closer at all the stats and how they have looked the past month and a half.  Papi may be hurt.  My point is that if he is he is hurting us.  He has no pop anymore and looks bad at the plate.  Manny had a brief streak where he was hot.  But now teams are walking Ortiz to pitch to Manny because he hits into double plays.  They are walking three to get to our cleanup?  we have ABSOLUTLEY NO CLUTCH HITTING. Best record in baseball?  Big deal.  Means absolutely nothing.  We built a big lead early in the season.  We also just lost two to the second best team in baseball.

Look.  I just do not see it.  Nobody here answered the question about the Yankee lineup.  Who as a hitter on the Sox would you take right now before someone in the Yankee lineup?  And nobody has a convincing argument about any of the players.  Simply saying, "they will be fine" does not give me comfort.  Do we have pitching coach problems?  What about batting coach?  We do have a new batting coach this year.  You all mean to tell me that on paper, up and down the lineup, you are comfortable with this team?  You honestly turn on the game or go to Fenway and have confidence every night?

by cblesz on Aug 8, 2007 1:36 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: The Red Sox are going nowhere [Promoted Diary]
Crisp is just on a hot streak? in June he batted .330 BA .360 OBP, in July .323 BA .391, and still hitting well now in August...that is one long hot streak. In fact that's over half the season, plus he's played tremendous defensive, I just don't get where you're coming up with "he's not doing fine".

The bullpen numbers I refered to was after the ASB...so no, they are not worse, and yeah Papelbon and Oki probably are a big reason for this...but moving forward they'll still be a big reason for the bullpen's success, so why is that a big deal? And Delcarmen, regardless of if you thought he hasn't looked solid, his numbers show that he has been. Yeah he gave up two hits last night, but he got through the inning without giving up a run, pitchers give up hits, it happens. And that was the first hits he's given up in three games.

I see a huge difference between our rotations, it seems like you're looking at post ASB numbers when they serve your arguement and ignoring them when they don't, did you not see the numbers I posted for their pitchers after the ASB? Beckett and Dice-K have been better then anyone on their rotation, Wake/Shilling and Pettite/Clemens/Mussina are all in the same area (some slightly better or worse), and yes as bad as Wake has been so has Pettite/Clemens/Mussina, and Wang is somewhere between those two groups. Lester and Hughes are currently a wash (even if Hughes has more potential in the long run)

I never said they didn't have a good offense, just that they are a hot streak, which they are even if you want to believe otherwise. All those names you names, I never said they sucked, they're all great players, but if you actually looked at the link I left you'd see that not a single one of them is playing in line with their career numbers, they're all considerably higher, meaning most likely they will all have their numbers regress. They won't start hitting like bums, I never said that, they are good players, but there is no way they will keep up hitting like they have the past couple weeks

And it's funny that you compared how they're beating up on weak teams when we didn't do that, and in conclusion they are much better offense, because a common critisim I've heard of the Yankees is that many of their hitters are stat padders, meaning they go to town on weaker hitters, but when facing good hitters they are still good, but not amazing (I'm not sure where you would find this, but a buddy once showed me stats that showed that the batting stats between pitchers with ERAs and WHIP above league avg. compared to those with ERAs and WHIP below, Giambi, Abreu, Cano, A-Rod, and Matsui had significantly bigger drop off is batting statistics then most people do...if anyone knows where you could find that that would be awesome)

by Realistic on Aug 8, 2007 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: The Red Sox are going nowhere [Promoted Diary]
All nice arguments.  But...I do not and will not agree about Coco.  His June numbers were nice, I agree.  But we are now in August and he has reverted back to his old self.  He is not clutch and does not come through offensively in situations that we need him to.  Defensively, he has been great, with the exception of his arm.  C'mon.  Everyone runs on him.  He has no arm.  does he have ONE outfield assist this year?

by cblesz on Aug 8, 2007 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i know whow you are!
you are JOE MORGAN.

you did not even look anything up what you are talking about!

"does he have ONE outfield assist this year?"

5 (in words: FIVE) so far.

middle of the pack i would guess (and that's my shot from the hips).

it is ok and normal for a Sox fan to have times to think everything is tumbling down.

or is that a way to make a research through your "staff" for an article, Joe. ; -)

when it is as easy as this i wish you would just have a short look at the stats before arguing like that.

or is that a way to make a research through your "staff" for an article.

by OilCanBoyd on Aug 8, 2007 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: The Red Sox are going nowhere [Promoted Diary]
I was refering the link I posted above (here again), which you'll see that all those players are performing way above the numbers you just listed off, so yes, they are overperforming offensively, not to say they're not a potent offense thou, they clearly are

by Realistic on Aug 8, 2007 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: The Red Sox are going nowhere [Promoted Diary]
YankeesRfirst - I don't think anyone is arguing that the Yanks don't have an insane offense..they do.  It's just that the current hot streak is based on a soft schedule in addition to missing the #1 starting pitcher for the rotations of many of those teams.  I.e. not only are the Yanks feasting on the pitching of under.500 teams, they are by dint of luck, not even facing the best pitchers those teams have to offer.  The numbers you quoted above are good...but they won't win you the division once the team reverts to "normal" and faces a tougher schedule.  If it does turn out that the Yankees offense can carry the team...shit you guys DESERVE the division because that would be quite a feast.  You can consider me not a worried Sox fan right now though, that's for sure.
You can take the boy outta Boston, but you can't take the Boston outta the boy.

by B Cap on Aug 8, 2007 6:59 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: The Red Sox are going nowhere [Promoted Diary]
Here are some answers to a few points you raised:
look more closely at our bullpen numbers and when they were generated as I am sure after the ASB they are much worse.

Post All-Star bullpen stats:

Okajima 10.2 IP 1.69 ERA 0.75 WHIP
Timlin 10.1 IP 1.74 ERA 0.58 WHIP
Lopez 7.1 IP 2.45 ERA 0.95 WHIP
Papelbon 7 IP 2.57 ERA 1.14 WHIP (12 K)
Delcarmen 12.1 IP 2.92 ERA 1.22 WHIP
Snyder 11.1 IP 3.18 ERA 1.41 WHIP
Tavarez 5.2 IP 3.18 ERA 1.76 WHIP
Gagne 2 IP 9.00 ERA 2.50 WHIP

I didn't bother with Hatchet Face's lousy starting stats since cblesz was talking about the pen.  I'd say those are pretty good stats, and I expect Gagne to pitch much better.

We keep saying as fans, "as soon as Manny and Papi get going".  Um, it is now August.  When do you expect that to happen?  The way they have been playing, they will be lucky to play .500 ball.  You really think they can play .600?

Cap'n Jack's and Papi's post-All Star stats:

Papi (22 G) .337 AVG/.422 OBP/.573 SLG
Manny (26 G) .340 AVG/.404 OBP/.660 SLG

I don't know--those stats look pretty good to me.  

Dice-K's ERA not much better than Pettitte.

Pettitte has an ERA of 4.00.  Matsuzaka's ERA is 3.70.  So, on the face of it, cblesz is right.  

Comparison of Dice-K and Pettitte:

Pettitte 8-7 4.00 ERA 1.45 WHIP .287 BAA
Matsuzaka 13-8 3.70 ERA 1.26 WHIP .243 BAA

A lot of people say Pettitte has been unlucky or he "has pitched better than his record."  I disagree.  With the exception of a great stretch in May, Pettitte has been awful.  

Pettitte's stats since June 1st (13 starts):

79 IP 97 H 27 BB 5.35 ERA 1.57 WHIP

In fact, if you look at Pettitte's peripheral numbers overall, he has been extremely lucky.  He is putting a lot of baserunners on.  In many ways he has been worse than Wakefield, who has a lower WHIP and BAA.

Dice-K's stats since June 1st (12 starts):

78.1 IP 65 H 31 BB 2.64 ERA 1.23 WHIP

These guys aren't even close!  

But now teams are walking Ortiz to pitch to Manny because he hits into double plays

cblesz is right.  Manny has hit into a lot of double-plays this year.  He is currently second in the AL, hitting into 17 so far.  

Here are a couple of other DP machines: Jorge Posada (16) and Derek Jeter (15).  Lowell and Ortiz each have grounded into 13.  A-Rod, the possible MVP, has hit into 12 DPs.

 

I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.

by Drugs Delaney on Aug 8, 2007 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: The Red Sox are going nowhere [Promoted Diary]
Thank you for the info.  The pen numbers look good, but tell me which guy gives you comfort other than Oki and Paps?  Really.  Timlin, Tavarez, Snyder?  In addition, the only starter that gives me confidence (right now)is Beckett...and he recently lost a complete game 1-0 because of our "explosive offense".

Papi (22 G) .337 AVG/.422 OBP/.573 SLG
Manny (26 G) .340 AVG/.404 OBP/.660 SLG

Nice stats.  However, I would be curious to see the RBI's and home runs.  Of which, they are paid to do and expected to do.  I just don't see them being clutch this year, that's all.

I do disagree with you in regard to Pettitte, though.  I think he has pitched well, with the exception of a couple of blow ups, similar to Dice.  Obviously, in the long run I want Dice, but this year I think it is a toss up.

by cblesz on Aug 8, 2007 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: The Red Sox are going nowhere [Promoted Diary]
"The pen numbers look good, but tell me which guy gives you comfort other than Oki and Paps?  Really.  Timlin, Tavarez, Snyder?"

Snyder has been money all season. I'd like to see Tito give him more responsibility.

Tavarez is junk. DFA him and bring back Lopez.

Timlin is a very good "worst guy in the bullpen."

I have confidence in MDC. He came in last night with men on base, so he had to hits his spots, and he gave up a couple fluky hits. But he's been excellent. If Joba is as good for the Yanks as MDC has been for us, they'll be ecstatic.

Gagne.

Just my two cents. Keep the change.

by tommy.otm on Aug 8, 2007 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: The Red Sox are going nowhere [Promoted Diary]
In the last month, Manny has 8 HRS and 28 RBI.

Papi has 5 Hrs, 16 RBI. And he missed four or five games with that shoulder thing.

Just my two cents. Keep the change.

by tommy.otm on Aug 8, 2007 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: The Red Sox are going nowhere [Promoted Diary]
Manny has 8 HR 28 RBI in 26 post-All-Star games.  Papi has 5 HR 16 RBI in 22 games.  Ortiz is clearly hurt.  But I can live with .337 AVG/.422 OBP/.573 SLG.

As for Pettitte, he is a bum.  He has been extremely lucky.  Based on his peripherals, he should have an ERA over 5.00.  In fact, Pettitte's ERA was 2.96 at the end of May.  Since the end of May, he has pitched against 2 contending teams: Boston and Anaheim.  He hasn't fared well against them, averaging less than 5 innings.

9.1 IP 17 H 13 ER (12.54 ERA).  If you add the other 3 games he pitched against the Sox and one against Seattle, he is 1-2 in 6 starts v. contenders.  Pettitte v. contenders:

34.2 IP (less than 6 IP/start) 55 H 5.97 ERA 1.90 WHIP

I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.

by Drugs Delaney on Aug 8, 2007 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: The Red Sox are going nowhere [Promoted Diary]
thx for putting up the "Post All-Star bullpen stats" Drugs.

which should have been the part for cblesz at the beginning.

and do not forget that our starters "take away" a lot of innings for the good pen so it is pretty much rested till now.

RL ip 309 12th in AL
Starters ip 697 3rd in AL
CHA and CLE better in both.

by OilCanBoyd on Aug 8, 2007 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: The Red Sox are going nowhere [Promoted Diary]
Hey, me again.  I didn't notice the Yanks vs. Sox question as being particularly central to your earlier post, but I'll bite:

Youk vs. Phillips?
Dusty vs. Cano?
Coco vs. Damon?

Those seem clearly to face the Red Sox.  I think the Yanks probably have clear advantages at 3B, SS, RF and 4th OF (Melky vs. WMP).  DH, LF, and C are I think too close to call.  (Please don't give me the line how Cano's been hotter than anything recently; they call them streaks because they end, and you're not going to see him swatting 4 out of 10 every series.)  Yeah, the Yankees lineup is better.  By a little.

On the more salient question of your sanity:  I don't know how you can say win-loss record "means absolutely nothing" to the question of having to be lucky to get to the playoffs and still say you're not crazy.  I don't get how you see no difference between Wang and Beckett (better ERA, almost twice as many Ks) or Petitte (less than 6 K/9) and Mr. Matsu (more than 9 K/9) and still say you're not crazy.  I don't get how you ask when Schilling's been good (other than that one measly woulda-been-a-perfect-game-but-for-Lugo's-error)---did you not look up his line for April 14 against the Angels (8 IP, 0 ER), May 1 against OAK (7 IP, 2 ER, 7 K), Memorial Day over CLE (7 IP, 1 ER, 10 K)?---and still say you're not crazy.  I don't get how you say the Yankees lineup scoring 10 runs a game is a good thing for them but somehow it's a cause to discount our offense, and still say you're not crazy.  I don't get how our bullpen isn't really fantastic, because our 8th and 9th inning guys are so untouchable they shouldn't be counted, but you're not crazy.  

Or rather, I don't get how you say you're not crazy and not expect us to laugh at you.  Or at least wonder whether "cblesz" is really Dan Shaughnessy.

Tony the Pony

by Tony the pony on Aug 8, 2007 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: The Red Sox are going nowhere [Promoted Diary]
... for "face the Red Sox" please read "favor the Red Sox"---grr.
Tony the Pony

by Tony the pony on Aug 8, 2007 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

"Unlike yourself, ...
... I took the time to put together thoughful comments and opinions."

at least about the pitching this is not a true statement ;-)

(i do not like to make your work but if you say the bullpen is so much worse after the ASG then go figure it out and show me (i am interested in that too).

"Simply saying "We will be alright...all is well"  is not going to win this team anything."

that is a true statement and the reason i put up some numbers for you.

you are talking about streaks all the time.
(this discussion is older than the game i think.)

a streak is a streak and not the norm and that's why you call it a streak.

so lets have a look at the "thoughtfull comments" you made:

Cocos arm IS much better than Damons. you don't think so?
there is no way to judge this "neutral" so we have to live with our different view about that.

you say let's have a look at the stats and in the next sentences you say Big Papi is hurting us?

excuse me that is wrong and UNFAIR and i will show you why:

        OPS
2003    961
2004!   983
2005   1001
2006   1041
2007    992 (990 pre ASG/ 995 post ;-)

his slugging is down (foot hurt, lower body harmed, less power) his OBP + AVG is up (lifetime high!).

that and looking at him when he plays tells you that he knows how to handle the situation. he can't generate the power but he still knows to make contact and he uses his eyes.
for me it looks like he is a type of guy ho helps his team with the weapons he got right now and not the ones he wishes to have.
this is a very good thing to see and makes me respect ortiz even more.

now comes an argument which i think is partially right.

"we have ABSOLUTLEY NO CLUTCH HITTING."

i do not see it as hard as that but i think we might have a problem in the clutch.
btw, Papi not! besides hitting .143 with bases loaded (.351 lifetime now:-) there is not one stat showing that he has problems when it counts.

Papi is not hurting the Sox at all

you did not look it up i know.

(and if A-Rod would have a normal season i still would pick Papi over him. damned i just do it anyway, so it's Papi for A-Rod.
it is not an easy task to pick someone from the Red Sox lineup cause nobody besides Manny and Ortiz HAS A STATIC POSITION in the lineup.)

Manny is not hitting to his average with men on, true. he has a bad season (for Manny) so far and we all have to wait if it works out for us in the end or not.

make a suggestion what to do instead of waiting (change with Ortiz?).

the Sox are (at least) in the middle of the pack in many stats related to clutch situations:

                OPS   AL-Rank
ScPos           824    2nd
ScPos/2 Out     837    2nd
Close & Late    711    7th (R 63. we are last!)
Bases Loaded    874    4th
Runners on      818    3rd
Inning 7+       748    2nd

looks not like "ABSOLUTLEY NO CLUTCH HITTING" to me.

what i miss right now is a bit of a fighting spirit. maybe it is because there just was no need for it till now. that will change in sept. and oct. so i would like to see if these guys be able to fight together.

that is why i would stop changing the team so much  and give the players roles (especially in the lineuppositions) to get used to.

but i am not too concerned yet.
the "spirit" will come with the challenges that come (so it might be a good thing if the series vs the MFY has some more meaning in the end).

"Best record in baseball?  Big deal.  Means absolutely nothing."

when you are in the AL-East and there are already 113 games played in the season it means a lot.
it means that you have a nasty baseball team which kicks asses all season long.

at last i will give you some specific answers to your questions...

"Who as a hitter on the Sox would you take right now before someone in the Yankee lineup?"

Ortiz DH before Damon/Giambi DH.

"Do we have pitching coach problems?"

NO WE DO NOT! (look up the stats plz some i offered to you already.)

"What about batting coach?"

possible. i do not know much about Magadan as a batting coach but i am not too much impressed with the offense this year. i mean Lugo just can't hit but why Drew is so bad? Crisp is not real crispy and a lot of the players had bad starts (what a lot of other players had this year partially because of the crazy weather not to forget.).

i would like to have Wade Boggs as Sox hitting coach but maybe magadan is not bad too.

"You all mean to tell me that on paper, up and down the lineup, you are comfortable with this team?"

for me it is exactly like that. i have to admit that i can not remamber when was the last time i looked at the roster of the Sox and the standings and felt so comfortable like right now.

"You honestly turn on the game or go to Fenway and have confidence every night?"

100 %! never had more.

just that you understand me right:

THIS IS THE YEAR !

ps:
and that might be the only reason why the Gagne trade is good in the end.

by OilCanBoyd on Aug 8, 2007 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: "Unlike yourself, ...
Thanks OilCan...some good comments.  I am not crazy, though.  Just concerned.

by cblesz on Aug 8, 2007 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: "Unlike yourself, ...
i never said you're crazy.

i said you are a "normal sox fan" or joe Morgan ; -)

by OilCanBoyd on Aug 8, 2007 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: The Red Sox are going nowhere [Promoted Diary]
YOU ARE NOT A SOX FAN. GET OFF THE BAND WAGON.

I admit to being a fair-weather Sox fan!  Essentially baseball bores me, but I have an almost ingrained desire to see the Red Sox win even though my childhood in the 1950s with the likes of Jackie Jensen and Don Button (?sp) taught me that was unlikely. Still when I see a chance for the Sox to do well, I come alive.  

I don't now live in Newe England so I bought that MLB package to be able to see the Sox in their winning ways.  Lately, I am thinking that was a mistake because this team is beginning to look like the Red Sox crap of old.

You have no right to say that if you do not support the Sox get off the bandwagon.  That is brainless talk. Some of us want accountability from the Sox management for the big bucks they are making. Produce good teams or lose support as you should and as almost all other teams with adequate infrastructure (decent staduim) do.  

Anyway, for all you blinded Red Sox bandwagon types, look at me (and others) as barometers for a winning atmosphere.  If we are hyped-up on the team, chances are things are good.  If we turn against them in our objective (yes objective) assessment, take it as a barometric indicator of real trouble.  The original author had it exactly correct, IMO!  This team is going nowhere!

by NG on Aug 8, 2007 2:12 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: The Red Sox are going nowhere [Promoted Diary]
Dude, I've looked at a not-exactly-random sampling of your previous comments and I have a hard time buying you as a "fair-weather Sox fan."  Part of being a fair-weather fan involves knowing when it's, you know, fair weather.  
Tony the Pony

by Tony the pony on Aug 8, 2007 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: The Red Sox are going nowhere [Promoted Diary]
When you crash into a wall 10 times out of 11, you get quite worried whenever you see walls!  There has to be reasons why this crashing (ie., sliding down fast) happens so often, and management accountability or lack thereof for purchasing and promoting and maintain quality players has to be the reasons!

by NG on Aug 8, 2007 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: The Red Sox are going nowhere [Promoted Diary]
Tony...do we even argue with this guy?  I mean, if "your team" has the best record in the Majors, has the biggest lead of any division leader, statistically is playing very consistently through out the year, makes THE blockbuster trade at the deadline that all the "watchers" think was the best move, AND you didn't give up your best prospects or mortgage the house to do it...and yet still, STILL you don't think the team is doing well enough? I mean, you're hardly working the "fair weather" part of fandom.
You can take the boy outta Boston, but you can't take the Boston outta the boy.

by B Cap on Aug 8, 2007 7:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: The Red Sox are going nowhere [Promoted Diary]
Sure...I do not think they are "doing well enough".  When you have a 14 1/2 game lead a month ago and it is now down to 5 games, I surely do not think you are doing well enough and judging by the last few weeks, I believe we can do beter.  THAT is not fair weather.  Once again, it is called realistic.

by cblesz on Aug 8, 2007 8:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: The Red Sox are going nowhere [Promoted Diary]
Yeah, cblesz, but I think he was talking about NG.  And NG's likely just a troll MFY fan, as best as I can tell.  
Tony the Pony

by Tony the pony on Aug 8, 2007 8:39 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: The Red Sox are going nowhere [Promoted Diary]
He's either a troll or a major league negatron.
Just my two cents. Keep the change.

by tommy.otm on Aug 8, 2007 8:49 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: The Red Sox are going nowhere [Promoted Diary]
Your stupidity amazes me.

1-First of all, we have NOT beaten up on teams that suck.
2-You can take the Yanks starting pitching if you like.  But nonetheless, even if they are a little worse than ours, their offense makes up for it.  And the stats do not lie.  Our SP is not all that much better.
3-I am talking about THIS SEASON, genius.  I do not care about ARod next year or how much cash we have.
4-Sox are bored?  This blatantly shows your idiocy.  A championship caliber team does not get bored, they finish what they started.  Poor situational hitting and bad defense is a result of boredom? As you suggest, I will not argue with someone who comes up with this type of argument.
5-The Gagne trade means nothing if we cannot get to him in the eight with a lead, genius.
6-I am surely a Sox fan.  But, I am a realistic Sox fan unlike yourself.  Next time, when you formulate a response to my questions, you may want to wait until recess is over an address the issues that were brought up.  Unlike yourself, I took the time to put together thoughful comments and opinions.  Not simply call someone names and avoid the questions.

Once again, let me speak slowly.  Simply saying "We will be alright...all is well"  is not going to win this team anything.

by cblesz on Aug 8, 2007 2:13 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: The Red Sox are going nowhere [Promoted Diary]
Your insanity amazes the rest of us.

1- We didn't just take 2 out of 3 from Seattle on their home turf.
2- You've hardly backed up anything you've said with actual stats.
5- Why the hell did you make your argument about the bullpen, then?
6- Being childish in your comments ["your stupidity amazes...", "you may want to wait until recess is over..."] is NOT thoughtful, nor did it take you much time to come up with.

You want us to sit back and wait for the Sox to crash like its inevitable? I'll ask YOU to sit back and wait for the MFY to hit the wall against teams like Cleveland, Anaheim and Detriot. And that's just August.

What would Dogbert do?

by panzermensch on Aug 9, 2007 6:27 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

A Sonnanstine?!?!??!
Here's a couple of lists fr you.

#1
J Shields - 2X
A Sonnanstine
E Jackson
J Towers - 2X
R Halladay
S Marcum
J Hammel
M DeSalvo
O Perez - 2X
S Elarton
G Meche - 2X
D Cabrera
J Contreras
J Danks
J Garland
K Davies
J Litsch

#2
Kazmir
D McGowan
E Jackson
J De La Rosa
J Guthrie
B Burres

List #1 are the starting pitchers the Yanks have beaten since the All Star Break. The ONLY GOOD PITCHER IN LIST #1 is Halladay, and the Yanks won that game 3-2 in extra innings when Accardo balked hom the winning run. As for the rest of those guys, eh. Meche or Garland could be our fifth starters.

List #2 are the guys they have lost against. Kazmir. McGowan. J Guthrie. Those guys are good pitchers, and they shut the Yanks down.

You know who the 2007 Yanks remind me of? The all hit no pitch Red Sox of old. And we all remember what our smug Yankee fan friends would say every time our vaunted offense would lose to them - in a contest of good pitching vs. good hitting, pitching wins every time.

The Yanks have been eating up the good hitting vs. bad pitching contest, let's see how they do going forward.

Just my two cents. Keep the change.

by tommy.otm on Aug 8, 2007 2:13 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: A Sonnanstine?!?!??!
I agree that they have been playing AAA teams and players.  But, what about us?  Where is the list of pitchers we have beaten and lost to.  I am sure there are several weak pitchers on that list that have baffled our hitters...  Who are the aces that we have lost to?  I also agree that we shall see how they do going forward against better teams, but they DO have a very powerful hitting lineup.  You just don't forget how to hit...wait, the Red Sox do every other day...my bad.  But to give up a 14 game lead which is now 5 is truly sad.

by cblesz on Aug 8, 2007 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: A Sonnanstine?!?!??!
#1
Halladay
McGowan
Bannister
Contreras
J Danks
J Garland
J Westbrook
Sabathia
C Lee
J Hammel
J Shields
Traschel
J Guthrie
J Washburn
M Batista

#2
Marcum (vs. Tavarez)
J Litsch (f'n 2-1)
J Gobble
O Perez (vs. Tavarez)
J Vasquez
F Carmona
Kazmir
Bedard
H Ramirez
Jered Weaver
J Saunders

List one being the starters we have beaten, list 2 those we have lost to. We're 15-11 since the All Star break, and we've been playing some not-good baseball and facing Bedard, Carmona, Guthrie (who in all objectivity might be the ROY frontunner), Sabathia, Kazmir, and McGowan.

Just my two cents. Keep the change.

by tommy.otm on Aug 8, 2007 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: A Sonnanstine?!?!??!
We should beat Weaver and Saunders, Gobble and Perez, without question...no excuses...as well as Vazquez.

by cblesz on Aug 8, 2007 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: A Sonnanstine?!?!??!
Huh? Last I checked Vazquez was a pretty solid pitcher this year:

     3.64 ERA 1.09 WHIP 138 K 150.2 IP

by Realistic on Aug 8, 2007 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: A Sonnanstine?!?!??!
Sure. And other teams shoul've beaten Tavarez every time, and Gabbard at least half the time.
Just my two cents. Keep the change.

by tommy.otm on Aug 8, 2007 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: A Sonnanstine?!?!??!
Vazquez is 3rd in the AL in WHIP. 8th in the AL in K/BB. 7th lowest LD% in the AL. He's been a good pitcher this season.

by Allen Chace on Aug 8, 2007 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: A Sonnanstine?!?!??!
Shields has potential, still, though from afar it seems like he doesn't have the stamina to continue what was a solid first-half run.

by Allen Chace on Aug 8, 2007 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: A Sonnanstine?!?!??!
He does have potential, but he's been crap since mid-June.
Just my two cents. Keep the change.

by tommy.otm on Aug 8, 2007 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: A Sonnanstine?!?!??!
Oh, absolutely. I just think, having watched him A bit, it'd hard to put him in the same class as those other full-season piles of suck. :)

by Allen Chace on Aug 8, 2007 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: The Red Sox are going nowhere [Promoted Diary]
No.  I am not a troll, jackass.  In fact, I was posting in here long before you ever were...I just don't post quite as often as you do because I actually think first, gather my thoughts, then write something legible.  And if you ask Randy, he will affirm it.  Never once did I not say I do not cheer for the Sox.  I am questioning the strength of my team and their abilities.  I do not blindly think they are going to win all the time and it is a foregone conclusion...that would make me a Los Angeles sports fan.

You know nothing about me.  So if you think you can have an intelligent conversation, by all means respnd.  If not, don't read anymore of the comments and do not respond.

Wait.  Sorry.  You told everyone else to ignore me.  I guess you are the King.  Judging by your intelligence level...

by cblesz on Aug 8, 2007 2:55 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: The Red Sox are going nowhere [Promoted Diary]
Dude, put the haterade on ice for a second.  Writing "I guess you are the King.  Judging by your intelligence level..." makes you sound thirteen, and you're clearly more intelligent than that.  

And you're really going to have to explain "Never once did I not say I do not cheer for the Sox" to me....

Tony the Pony

by Tony the pony on Aug 8, 2007 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: The Red Sox are going nowhere [Promoted Diary]
I now live in So Cal and watch every freaking game on the dish.  So yes, I do cheer for the Sox.  I have two freaking tats of the Sox and had season tix at Fenway before I had to move.  So, yes I cheer for the Sox every evening at 4:05 or 4:35 PST.

by cblesz on Aug 8, 2007 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: The Red Sox are going nowhere [Promoted Diary]
Did you/are you making it to Anaheim?
Just my two cents. Keep the change.

by tommy.otm on Aug 8, 2007 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: The Red Sox are going nowhere [Promoted Diary]
With that braindead attitude, tell me one good reason then why red Sox management or anyone else should do one thing to make any Sox team a winner??

by NG on Aug 8, 2007 2:55 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: The Red Sox are going nowhere [Promoted Diary]
I think NG is a troll, but cblesz's prior comments don't seem too trollish to me.  I think he's dead wrong, but I don't think he's doing it out of malice.  Plus it's not like we haven't all spent too many overlong conversations with genuine Sox fans who are convinced that the sky's falling.  
Tony the Pony

by Tony the pony on Aug 8, 2007 2:58 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: The Red Sox are going nowhere [Promoted Diary]
And I am not doing it out of malice.  I am discouraged.  That is all.  I wanted some sort of intelligent debate that would make me feel a bit better.  My comments were legitimate arguments that were an attemp to solicit intelligent conversation.

NG - where is the brain dead attitude?

by cblesz on Aug 8, 2007 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: The Red Sox are going nowhere [Promoted Diary]
Well, you definitely got a response.  Hope it's not too frustrating, but the internet is what it is.  I think a lot of us made reasonably intelligent responses to your point.  
Tony the Pony

by Tony the pony on Aug 8, 2007 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: The Red Sox are going nowhere [Promoted Diary]
I got somewhat of a response.  Nobody has said anything about our power number 5 guy, $70 million right fielder who sits out against lefties.  Nor did we talk much about Lugo.

Hey, you guys can put your hands over your eyes and think all is well.  But, I don't see it that way.  I am simply stating that this team, RIGT NOW is not winning the World Series.

by cblesz on Aug 8, 2007 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: The Red Sox are going nowhere [Promoted Diary]
I actually wear one of those sleep masks instead of using my hands.

Drew has been a huge disappointment. Lugo was extremely unlucky (BABIP) earlier in the season and has begun to come around. Wake, Schill, Lester have me reaching for the Pepto almost every time out. The bullpen is awesome, our offense needs to get them leads to protect. Until then, we'll continue to see more of J-Tav-Snydes than we might like.

I'm worried as well. I'm not sure anyone shouldn't be worried. The Tigers rotation is not what it was and their bullpen is absolutely in shambles. I'm not convinced they're going to be able to do their part.

by Allen Chace on Aug 8, 2007 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: The Red Sox are going nowhere [Promoted Diary]
What is there to say about Drew and Lugo? Drew has been a major letdown, but who knows, he's starting to hit a little bit, and now that his son is doing better maybe he turns it on a la Bobby Abreu.

Lugo has actually been respectable since the AS break - .346 OBP, .746 OPS. Sure his error last night sucked, but he's won a few games with his bat recently.

Just my two cents. Keep the change.

by tommy.otm on Aug 8, 2007 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: The Red Sox are going nowhere [Promoted Diary]
Drew might turn it around as I understand his boy had surgery and I am sure that can weigh on him.  But Lugo, geez.  He turned it around briefly but like Coco is back to awful at the plate.  Defensively, arggghhh!!  Wasn't just last night...he commits errors at the worst times it seems.

by cblesz on Aug 8, 2007 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: The Red Sox are going nowhere [Promoted Diary]
Sometimes it is hard to line up the comments correctly. What I am referring to with a brain-dead attitude comment is a fan who sees no reasons to be critical of their team ever because they are just good fans.  Why should management try to improve a team with such blinded fans??

by NG on Aug 8, 2007 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: The Red Sox are going nowhere [Promoted Diary]
Oh.  OK.  That is all I am doing is questioning the strength of the team.

by cblesz on Aug 8, 2007 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: The Red Sox are going nowhere [Promoted Diary]
Another reason is that we separate paragraphs in order to make them easier to read. Put that in your age and Wang vs. Beckett calculations.

by Allen Chace on Aug 8, 2007 3:06 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

moronsRyou
"We all play the same teams in different times of the yr."

Exactly. And after a month long cakewalk the Yanks are STILL five games back. The Sox STILL have the biggest lead in baseball. And now we head towards our cakewalk and y'all head for the meatgrinder.

Just my two cents. Keep the change.

by tommy.otm on Aug 8, 2007 3:08 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: moronsRyou
"worthless in the eyes of a yankee fan"

Whatever dude. You're the one showing up here to brag about being 5 games back. I love the internal conflict in Yankee fans, like a showdown between the giddiness to actually get back into the horse race versus the urge to suppress said giddiness because showing said giddiness would somehow betray weakness and a loser mentality.

"dill hole"

What does that even mean? It wasn't set aside by any punctuation, it just kind of sits awkwardly at the end of a rambling sequence of words. Almost like it was typed involuntarily, like you were thinking back on the glory days of your childhood and it just came out. Are we witnessing the tip of the iceberg in regards to your suppressed traumas? Did Scott Brosius touch you in a dirty place? It's okay, this is a safe space. There there. It's not your fault.

Just my two cents. Keep the change.

by tommy.otm on Aug 8, 2007 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: The Red Sox are going nowhere [Promoted Diary]
See.  This is what we would call a troll.

by cblesz on Aug 8, 2007 3:08 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: The Red Sox are going nowhere [Promoted Diary]
Yep. And I fed him. As did you.
Just my two cents. Keep the change.

by tommy.otm on Aug 8, 2007 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I refuse to read this whole thread.
on the grounds that I've got one eye on the TV. However, I will briefly summarise my point of view:
  • We are going to the post-season
  • The Yankees are going to the post-season
  • Who knows what will happen in the post-season?
Bottom 9th B:1 S:0 O:0 With Bill Mueller batting, Dave Roberts steals (1) 2nd base.

by britsoxfan on Aug 8, 2007 3:28 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: I refuse to read this whole thread.
Aww. Brit. Come on. The Yankees are going to the postseason? I still hold irrational hope that the Tigers will get back on track pitching-wise and that the M's will continue to outperform their talent level.

by Allen Chace on Aug 8, 2007 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: I refuse to read this whole thread.
"I still hold irrational hope that the Tigers will get back on track pitching-wise"

Hopefully before the Yanks show up...

Just my two cents. Keep the change.

by tommy.otm on Aug 8, 2007 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: I refuse to read this whole thread.
What's on the TV?
Just my two cents. Keep the change.

by tommy.otm on Aug 8, 2007 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: I refuse to read this whole thread.
Baltimore's finest, and I don't mean Kevin Millar (The Wire).
Bottom 9th B:1 S:0 O:0 With Bill Mueller batting, Dave Roberts steals (1) 2nd base.

by britsoxfan on Aug 8, 2007 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: The Red Sox are going nowhere [Promoted Diary]
* cordons off thread *
Bottom 9th B:1 S:0 O:0 With Bill Mueller batting, Dave Roberts steals (1) 2nd base.

by britsoxfan on Aug 8, 2007 4:00 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Troll fight.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.

by Drugs Delaney on Aug 8, 2007 4:15 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This is Darwinism in action. Round up all the trolls and let them fight each other in a big cage. Maybe Michael Vick would like to sponsor the event.
Bottom 9th B:1 S:0 O:0 With Bill Mueller batting, Dave Roberts steals (1) 2nd base.

by britsoxfan on Aug 8, 2007 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You are a class act.

by cblesz on Aug 8, 2007 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Define "white people." Because unless you came over on the Mayflower, I'm pretty sure the folks who founded this country wouldn't have considered you "white" in their time.

Admins, please ban this racist zombie!

by RSNexile on Aug 8, 2007 9:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"Troll Fight."

HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!

Too funny.

Just my two cents. Keep the change.

by tommy.otm on Aug 8, 2007 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: The Red Sox are going nowhere [Promoted Diary]
The address is probably a prison.  he is getting out on work release to clean up the trash around the stadium...

by cblesz on Aug 8, 2007 4:25 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

SECURITY!!!!
Just my two cents. Keep the change.

by tommy.otm on Aug 8, 2007 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

SECURITY!!!
No, the KKK just showed up at my favorite blog.
Just my two cents. Keep the change.

by tommy.otm on Aug 8, 2007 4:43 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: SECURITY!!!
Randy? Allen? can we take care of this?

by Realistic on Aug 8, 2007 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: SECURITY!!!
He keeps coming back.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.

by Drugs Delaney on Aug 8, 2007 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: SECURITY!!!
No one is laughing. You need help.
Just my two cents. Keep the change.

by tommy.otm on Aug 8, 2007 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: SECURITY!!!
This time, please remove both accounts, rather than simply deleting their posts. We're in some pretty dodgy territory here - racism, threats of violence.
Bottom 9th B:1 S:0 O:0 With Bill Mueller batting, Dave Roberts steals (1) 2nd base.

by britsoxfan on Aug 8, 2007 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: SECURITY!!!
I think they did erase the KKK guy's account - he used to be "innyc" I think. Looking at his posting history it seems he's only been posting under this name today.
Just my two cents. Keep the change.

by tommy.otm on Aug 8, 2007 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: SECURITY!!!
Lighten up? Racism is never "just having fun"

by Realistic on Aug 8, 2007 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: SECURITY!!!
Whatever dude. All I said was you're not funny. And it's true.
Just my two cents. Keep the change.

by tommy.otm on Aug 8, 2007 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

(crickets)
Just my two cents. Keep the change.

by tommy.otm on Aug 8, 2007 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: The Red Sox are going nowhere [Promoted Diary]
Leave it to the KKK to unite Sox fans and Yankee fans. Kick his *ss, YRF.

(you're still a moron though)

Just my two cents. Keep the change.

by tommy.otm on Aug 8, 2007 4:54 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: The Red Sox are going nowhere [Promoted Diary]
SoxfaninNY you are potentially the most useless human being on the face of the Earth.

by gnick55 on Aug 8, 2007 5:19 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Sorry.
I apologize for feeding the trolls. I will do better to refrain in the future.
Just my two cents. Keep the change.

by tommy.otm on Aug 8, 2007 5:34 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: The Red Sox are going nowhere [Promoted Diary]
sign a-rod and lowell, eat lugos contract and all will be well next year.  this year is over.  yes we will get to the playoffs and our line up will crumble to the pitching we will face. not to mention the clutch hitting. i am not a stat guy, but i would wager that teams clutch hitting goes down in the playoffs and if ours goes down it hits zero.

by fishfarmr on Aug 9, 2007 12:06 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Clutch hitting and the post-season
The St. Louis Cardinals as a team hit .256/.334/.403 in "close and late" situations last year.  The Detroit Tigers had the third-lowest team BA in "close and late" situations last year (.251/.322/.402).  

This year, the Sox are 5th in the AL in BA in "close and late" situations.  Here's a comparison between Boston and the MFY in various "clutch" situations:

"Close and Late":
MFY: (541 AB) 10 HR .264 AVG/.339 OBP/.373 SLG (.712 OPS)
Sox: (519 AB) 9 HR .256 AVG/.339 OBP/.380 SLG (.719 OPS)

The Mariners have the best stats in this category.

Runners in Scoring Position:
MFY: (1149 AB) 32 HR .288 AVG/.371 OBP/.438 SLG (.809 OPS)
Sox: (1062 AB) 32 HR .275 AVG/.376 OBP/.448 SLG (.824 OPS)

Runners in scoring position, 2 out:

MFY: (518 AB) 17 HR .266 AVG/.355 OBP/.419 SLG (.774 OPS)
Sox: (512 AB) 16 HR .266 AVG/.390 OBP/.443 SLG (.833 OPS)

I could be wrong, but maybe the MFY lack of clutch hitting and pitching keeps them from making the playoffs or makes them a first round exit (like past years).  Then again, maybe the Sox' good offense and superior pitching makes this a very interesting October.  It's too early to tell.

I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.

by Drugs Delaney on Aug 9, 2007 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

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