What's Too Much for Johan Santana?

I've speculated before that if Johan Santana leaves the Twins without a serious contract offer, that Carl Pohlad should never leave his house again. Ever. And if he has a butler or something, he probably needs to try to get someone he trusts to build a robotic one. And put a 25 ft electric fence around the border of his property. And dig a moat. But he shouldn't dig it himself, because someone in a tree just outside the fence with a rifle will shoot him.
All that aside, a survey of Twins blogs should make you aware that fans of that team are as knowledgeable if not moreso than any other fanbase in the league. Aaron Gleeman, SB Nation's own Twinkie Town and Stick and Ball Guy are just three examples. Would the fanbase as a whole be accepting of a Santana-free roster in return for a king's/fool's ransom of prospects in return? I can't answer that question, but I thought it'd be fun for all of us to speculate on the kind of package the Sox might have to send to the Twins if he were on the block this winter.
According to Buster Olney via MLBTR, it would take "three prospects plus a young big leaguer" to get a deal done. In order to minimize fan dissonance, I have to assume that the Twins probably aren't interested in anyone below AA, though I would guess Lars Anderson might still come up in conversations. Most of our best prospects are pitchers, which is a lot like the Twins situation. However, acquiring some of ours means they could mix and match, keep who they want and use the others to try to acquire position talent from the Devil Rays or something. Now I'm getting ahead of myself.
Red Sox prospects that have value to other teams:
- Clay Buchholz, SP: Obvious reasons here. A good young SP with less mileage on his arm than most other 23 year olds.
- Michael Bowden, SP: Have to be fair and say his stock has fallen a bit. However, he doesn't turn 21 until September, and he has struck out 45 in his last 50 2/3 at the AA-level.
- Justin Masterson, SP: Will turn 23 in March next year. He has had a couple rough starts lately for Portland (both 5 IP, 8 or more H, 2 BB, and 7+ER). Hopefully this is just hurried market correction, because he's still got 51 Ks in 49 IP, almost 4 GBs for every FB, and a 1.04 WHIP. Unless he puts up a few more stinkers, he's probably past Bowden for the moment.
- Jed Lowrie, SS/2B: Jed has hit for power and average at Pawtucket, at near the same clips he did in the Eastern League. However, he's only walked 5 times in just under 110 PAs. His track record suggests this skill will return. With Jason Bartlett coming into his own, he'd probably fill the 2B hole for the Twins if included.
- Lars Anderson, 1B: A hitting line of .290/.384/.447 is very encouraging for the not-yet 20 year old. Have to assume the slugging will rise as his body continues to fill out. It is hard to see how he'd fit in the Twins future with Morneau blocking him at 1B, though presumably he'd make a pretty good DH in a couple of years. He could also be hung onto for a year or so and then flipped.
- Jacoby Ellsbury, CF: What's lacking from Ellsbury is anything resembling power. I would have thought his speed would turn some of his singles into doubles, but that hasn't happened yet. Nonetheless, he's a legitimate top of the order option with his patience and speed (30 for 36 in SBs, 83% success rate), and can run down anything in the outfield.
- Coco Crisp, CF: I won't bore you with stats, though looking through them makes it quite clear that a few ML CFs are in a class of their own defensively, and Coco is one of them. He's slumped a bit the last couple of weeks, but his 2nd half batting line suggests that he's getting back to being the player he was in Cleveland, finally. (.283/.366/.394)
- DP, 2B: Perish the thought, right? Well, when looking at the Sox roster for Young Big Leaguers, he fits the bill. Pedroia's batting line: .324/.394/.447 is impressive for his rookie season, though despite his obvious skill and fan-favorite status, I doubt very much that he'd be labeled as untouchable.
- Kevin Youkilis, 1B/3B: It's that second position that's important, as Youks certainly wouldn't supplant Justin Morneau at 1B. He's been horrid in the 2nd half (.209/.325/.328), though thankfully still walking enough not to cause a lot more PT for Eric Hinske. This one seems unlikely because his 2nd half stats are there for everyone to see, and filling both the 3B and 1B holes this winter seems unlikely. Also not as young (29 to begin next season) as he seems sometimes.
Your potential packages and answers to my questions in the comments.
P.S. One more question: Did I unfairly leave Brandon Moss out of the conversation?
[editor's note, by Allen Chace] There is a game story for last night, but I wanted to see if there was any more interest in this topic.
26 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
8/20 OTM
POTG: Manny
Wake's line: 7IP; 3R; 8H; 2BB; 4K
A&B: Bobby Kielty gets at least 2 hits off Kazmir
Re: What's Too Much for Johan Santana?
Re: What's Too Much for Johan Santana?
I was unaware how bad Youk has been. That's pretty terrible.
Re: What's Too Much for Johan Santana?
Re: What's Too Much for Johan Santana?
Re: What's Too Much for Johan Santana?
I don't see the Sox getting Santana. If he's a FA, the Yankees will almost certainly win any bidding war. If he's traded, the Sox may not be willing or able to put together the best package.
My proposal: Masterson, Bowden, Anderson, Crisp, for Santana + contract extension. If the Twins have any power-hitting DH-types they want to throw in for free, so much the better...
Re: What's Too Much for Johan Santana?
And I should've been clearer. I don't think 2nd half slumps are going to be a guarantee with Youks, just might make the Twins iffy on accepting him as a piece in a potential trade, if he ends this year poorly. (if he were even among the most expendable of our current ML pieces).
by Allen Chace on Aug 20, 2007 11:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Re: What's Too Much for Johan Santana?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't we outbid the Yankees for Manny? and didn't we plunk more on Daisuke than any other team?
Believe me, we're capable of outbidding any team for any player.
Re: What's Too Much for Johan Santana?
Re: What's Too Much for Johan Santana?
I don't see any reason that the Yankees wouldn't go after Santana hard. Clemens, Mussina, and Pettitte are getting up there in years, and losing effectiveness. If Cashman has a chance to lock up one of baseball's best, why wouldn't he offer the sun and the moon (7 years, $30 million)? Unless Santana decides to take a lower salary to play with the Sox (probably unlikely), we'd never sign him as a FA.
Also, the Twins are expecting more revenue from a new stadium, and their billionaire owner could conceivably sign Santana to a massive contract extension.
Re: What's Too Much for Johan Santana?
I believe they opted to go hard after Moose.
There are a lot of teams that can and will go as high or higher than the Yanks and Sox. Mets, Dodgers, Angels, Mets, Rangers, Mets, Mets, Mets...
Though you know who I think should go for him hard? The D-Rays. They'll still have a small team payroll, so they could afford him. And their nucleus of position players will be hitting their stride, and some of their better pitching prospects (David Price, etc.) will start showing up in 2009. I think a left-handed, two-headed hydra of Santana and Kazmir is the only way the Rays could hope breaking through the Sox-Yanks duopoly.
Re: What's Too Much for Johan Santana?
You know what -- and apologies if it looks like I'm unwilling to let this one go, and I'm absolutely not picking on you -- that's not true. It assumes all sorts of things. For starters:
- that all teams value a player the same way, both in a vacuum, and in terms of value to their squad and future plans
- that the Yankees have more money than anyone else. Of course, they have more revenue than anyone else, but they don't have the richest owner by some distance. Never mind Stein's fragility.
Springer's final thought: I think the Cubbies will win the bidding if he ever makes the open market. They are the coming team...
Re: What's Too Much for Johan Santana?
by Red Sox Rants from China on Aug 21, 2007 3:29 AM EDT reply actions
Re: What's Too Much for Johan Santana?
I would be willing to give any pitching prospect and almost any position player (except Ortiz) for Santana. I wouldn't send three pitching prospects, and would try not sending two: Buchholz, Ellsbury and somebody else would be a great deal for the Sox.
Re: What's Too Much for Johan Santana?
I think Abreu is a FA this off-season, but I've been hearing that it's more and more likely that he resigns with the Yanks.
Re: What's Too Much for Johan Santana?
http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2005/01/new-york-yankees_111398168678860040.html
by Hughie Jennings on Aug 21, 2007 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Re: What's Too Much for Johan Santana?
Re: What's Too Much for Johan Santana?
Re: What's Too Much for Johan Santana?
Re: What's Too Much for Johan Santana?
Re: What's Too Much for Johan Santana?
Re: What's Too Much for Johan Santana?
The most persuasive argument for the Sox to get Johann is to keep him away from the Yankees. He would be far more valuable to them, I think, than to us (not to discount his value to us - he is the best in all of baseball). I think our ideal would be that both A-Rod and Santana go to the NL, and we wouldn't have to battle the Yankees for either one.
Plus I'm compelled to give Lester, Buchholz et al another year to show the Sox what they have, then decide if we should pursue Santana in fall '08 (if he's still available).
It sure is nice to think about though - Santana, Becket, Daisuke, Lester, Buchholz, Wakefield
by alfredoz on Aug 21, 2007 6:48 PM EDT reply actions
Re: What's Too Much for Johan Santana?
by Red Sox Rants from China on Aug 21, 2007 11:20 PM EDT reply actions
Re: Carlos Pena

by 
























