Santana to the Mets in a Three-way?

by Allen Chace on Dec 5, 2007 5:25 PM EST in News

Sounds nearly impossible, and a litte bit dirty. Of course, I've been forced to live in the Bible Belt for the last decade. Might be the norm in other places.

MLBTR:

Mets send Jose Reyes, Kevin Mulvey, and Hector Pellot to A's
A's send Bobby Crosby and Dan Johnson to Mets
A's send Dan Haren to Twins
Twins send Johan Santana to Mets

Mets get Johan Santana, Bobby Crosby and Dan Johnson
A's get Jose Reyes and Kevin Mulvey
Twins get Dan Haren and Hector Pellot

I did your research on Hector Pellot for you. Highly-regarded or not, his performance has been pretty mediocre thusfar (think a young Luis Castillo, with less OBP skills.).

Doesn't hold water, in my opinion. Especially with the Twins ending up with 0 real position player prospects as a result.

To look at it from another perspective, if it were me as Bill Smith, GM of the Twins, I'd prefer the proposed Yankee package, not to mention our own. Also, Crosby is a bit like Rich Harden to me. He's so involved in being made out of tissue paper that it's hard to pin down what his value should be, other than "much less than tissue paper-buddy Rich Harden".

Also, the Mariners are involved? Or, more likely, the Twins want the Mariners to be involved and Santana politely declined.

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Comments

Wow.

That's bold.

Manny Ramirez is a bad man

by tommy.otm on Dec 5, 2007 5:34 PM EST reply actions

Re: Wow.

And honestly, at least somewhat nonsensical in my opinion. If I'm the Twins and want a Castillo-lite, heck, they already have this guy.

by Allen Chace on Dec 5, 2007 5:39 PM EST up reply actions

Re: Santana to the Mets in a Three-way?

I don't see it, and who would have ever guessed reyes would be an A?

by AZredsoxfan on Dec 5, 2007 5:39 PM EST reply actions

Gotta agree

...that this trade makes no sense. With Torii Hunter gone and nobody to speak of on the left side of the infield, the Twins need:

(a) a bat in CF and/or at 3B (or SS);
(b) cheap but quality pitching under club control for a long time.

They got a very good bargaining chip in Santana to get those two things---NYY and BOS were offering them imperfect fits but really good packages. Why would they trade Santana for Haren, who according to my math is free agency eligible after next season? (I'm just eyeballing it; don't know if I'm right about that.) They would get no bats and no long term replacement for Santana and Pellot doesn't look like much of a sweetener.

I think that unless the Angels (Brandon Wood) or Yankees (Melky Cabrera) are still contemplating a package with some young pitching the Red Sox are the only club with an offer that does anything for Minnesota. No guarantee that means it'll get done. But a lot of potential trade scenarios ignore what are Minnesota's really obvious needs.

Tony the Pony

by Tony the pony on Dec 5, 2007 5:39 PM EST reply actions

Whoops

Yahoo story says Haren's under control for three more seasons---I think he first came up in 2003 so I'm not sure how that's possible without an extension that I didn't see on his baseball-reference page, but consider this a correction.

Tony the Pony

by Tony the pony on Dec 5, 2007 5:44 PM EST up reply actions

Re: Whoops

According to Cot's:

signed extension September 2005

$4M
$5.5M
Option for $6.75 M (club)

by Allen Chace on Dec 5, 2007 5:47 PM EST up reply actions

Re: Gotta agree

Haren is locked up for something like $6M per? for the next few seasons. That's where he's getting a lot of his value, currently.

by Allen Chace on Dec 5, 2007 5:44 PM EST up reply actions

Re: Santana to the Mets in a Three-way?

I have seen crazy BS on MLBTR.com, that's why I tend to ingore that site.

Haven't the Mets stated that under no circumstance will the trade Reyes?

by Realistic on Dec 5, 2007 5:46 PM EST reply actions

Re: Santana to the Mets in a Three-way?

sounds like total BS

by Matzushocka on Dec 5, 2007 5:47 PM EST reply actions

Re: Santana to the Mets in a Three-way?

I just do not see this move when the Twins have stated openly that they want bats in exchange for Santana.

Why give up your only bargaining chip for a guy you will have to move, probably for less, in three years.

If this is a move to get Haren and then immediately move him for Hughes + prospects to the Yankees or maybe to the Dbacks for their package of young players ok, I get it. But honestly, this makes 0 sense for the Twins.

Also, did not the Mets already say that Jose Reyes will not be in any deal?

With the Mariners, the Angels, Yankees, Sox in the mix for Santana and the Dbacks in for Haren, this just seems like a wicked rumor with little substance.

Maybe the Tiwns are trying to get the price up for Santana, but again the Sox do not need to make this move, the Yankees and Dbacks must make a move to compete next year for a playoff spot.

As i see it:

AL East - Sox
AL Cent - Indians
AL West - Angels
AL WC - Indians

Yanks out.

The NL is up for grabs to me.

IF the Dodgers make a move they can lock this up. The Dbacks must make a move to keep pace and get the WC in the NL West.

by SoxAcumen on Dec 5, 2007 5:47 PM EST reply actions

Re: Santana to the Mets in a Three-way?

Hold on? The Indians get two teams in the playoffs?

Doesn't sound fair to me. :)

by Allen Chace on Dec 5, 2007 5:49 PM EST up reply actions

Re: Santana to the Mets in a Three-way?

Bah, I meant the Tigers for WC. Sorry

by SoxAcumen on Dec 5, 2007 5:49 PM EST reply actions

Re: Santana to the Mets in a Three-way?

I figured. Just having a little fun.

Though I think which of the Indians and Tigers is the favorite to win the Central is debatable at this point. Would swing in the Tigers favor with a signing and clean bill of health for an Octavio Dotel or even (grimace) an Eric Gagne.

by Allen Chace on Dec 5, 2007 5:52 PM EST up reply actions

Re: Santana to the Mets in a Three-way?

I agree, right now I like the Indians bc of their pitching. CC + Fausto + their bullpen > Tiger's staff + bull pen.

If the Tigers could get some help for the pen, I totally see them winning and the Indians as a WC.

by SoxAcumen on Dec 5, 2007 5:55 PM EST up reply actions

Re: Santana to the Mets in a Three-way?

Hey, Wake is healthy again? Well that changes a lot for the Sox. Having Wake around to eat up innings is like the Yanks getting Pettitte to resign.

17 wins last year is 17 wins. I freaking love Wakefield, the guy should get his number retired bc he is such a team guy.

I am going to start a petition: "Wakefield's number should be retired.com"

LOL.

by SoxAcumen on Dec 5, 2007 5:54 PM EST reply actions

Re: Santana to the Mets in a Three-way?

Agreed about Wakefield. I'd love to see him retire as the franchise leader in wins.

I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.

by Drugs Delaney on Dec 5, 2007 6:15 PM EST up reply actions

Re: Santana to the Mets in a Three-way?

blink

Seems fishy. The Twins need at least one serious batting prospect out of that. Nothing against Hector Pellot, I'm sure he's a lovely boy, but... no.

Something smells like a Yankee-taunt. If this deal goes down, Santana's off the market, Haren's off the market, Bedard won't be traded in the division, and Hank's just been completely shown up by the Mets, which is almost as bad as being shown up by the Red Sox.

Waving the red flag at the extremely dumbass bull, perhaps?

by CarrieICL on Dec 5, 2007 5:55 PM EST reply actions

Re: Santana to the Mets in a Three-way?

This move just makes no sense for the Twins. Rent Haren for 3 years and then be in the same situation as you were with Santana, but now Haren is not as attractive bc of his FA demands?

Plus, no young bats to help in 08?

Yeah this seems of BS unless there is a trade in the works with lets say the Dbacks for some of their young positions players.

by SoxAcumen on Dec 5, 2007 5:57 PM EST up reply actions

Re: Santana to the Mets in a Three-way?

Given Detroit's newfound balls of steel, I don't think bats in '08 are going to matter that much for the Twins. Haren, in and of himself, is a good deal -- cheap, and we put off the ace problem for another three years. Okay, fine. He'll probably go on his merry way after that, but that's not the first time that's happened to us. Frankly, everyone is a rental. If there is one single member of the Twins likely to be locked up long-term, it's Joe Mauer, and that's not going to come cheap. Beyond that, I'd be shocked to see any signing at four years, and definitely not more... point being, three years is about the length of time we expect to control someone who didn't originate in our system.

It's the lack of prospects that seems unlikely to me. If we're building for 2010 with the new ballpark (which, again, given Detroit...), then why aren't we stocking the farm? The 5-1 trade makes more sense than this.

No. Maybe with another position prospect, but as it is, no. Seems more like a bluff to get the Yankees hopping, or possibly the sportswriters have gotten so antsy waiting for something to happen than they're starting to hallucinate.

by CarrieICL on Dec 5, 2007 6:06 PM EST up reply actions

Re: Santana to the Mets in a Three-way?

If the Mets are going to trade away Jose Reyes, why wouldn't the Twins want his services? Supposedly they have a healthy Francisco Liriano coming back. That gives them a rotation of:

Liriano
Bonser (Boof!)
Baker
Slowley
?

There are worse rotations in the AL. Personally, I think the Sox' package of Lester, Crisp, Lowrie, and Masterson offers the best long-term benefit and stability for the Twins.

Trading for Jose Reyes + spare parts is an interesting proposition, but I think getting two stud pitching prospects will tip the Twins towards the Red Sox.

"You know you're having a bad day when the fifth inning rolls around and they drag the warning track." - Mike Flanagan, Baltimore Orioles pitcher, 1992.

by SoxDevil on Dec 5, 2007 10:25 PM EST up reply actions

Re: Santana to the Mets in a Three-way?

That last line is gold. Thank you.

by Allen Chace on Dec 5, 2007 5:59 PM EST up reply actions

Re: Santana to the Mets in a Three-way?

Billy Beane shot down the rumor trade, It is most likely cooked up by a Mets fan or Mets managment, given the trade heavily favored the Mets. The Met dish out two minor league players and Reyes and get Johan Santana and two Oakland A's starting players?!?!!? The Twins are demanding much more from the Sox than Haren and an A+ league pitcher for Santana.

Minnesota and Oakland may have their problems, but they aren't the Florida Marlins, and they know their baseball, they wouldn't settle for a trade like this with their crown jewel of their teams.

by superferret on Dec 5, 2007 10:58 PM EST up reply actions

Re: Santana to the Mets in a Three-way?

opps! I got Mulvey's role as a pitcher mixed up with Pellot's 2B position, but Billy Beane publicly announce this trade rumor as "total fabrication"

http://tinyurl.com/2d3qsd

The culprit has "Mets" or New York Media written all over it. Reyes is good, but he isn't going to be traded 1:1 for either Santana or Haren.

by superferret on Dec 5, 2007 11:18 PM EST up reply actions

<3 Reyes

Depending on my starting rotation, I might trade Haren for Reyes. Is that crazy?

"You know you're having a bad day when the fifth inning rolls around and they drag the warning track." - Mike Flanagan, Baltimore Orioles pitcher, 1992.

by SoxDevil on Dec 6, 2007 1:44 PM EST up reply actions

Re: Santana to the Mets in a Three-way?

This would be really weird. I'd be happy in a way because A. itd be done, over, dont have to talk about it anymore.
B. Santana leaves the AL and he doesnt pitch against us.
C. we keep all our prospects and deal with the powerful team we allready have.

But this deal doesnt make alot of sense to me. I'd rather get 5 players with some high end prospects and cococrisp than just haren.

by spinz on Dec 5, 2007 6:00 PM EST reply actions

Re: Santana to the Mets in a Three-way?

This is complete BS, but I would like it. It puts no pressure on us, gets JS out of the AL, and I get to sleep at night

by AZredsoxfan on Dec 5, 2007 6:08 PM EST up reply actions

AMEN

by jwp on Dec 5, 2007 6:37 PM EST up reply actions

Re: Santana to the Mets in a Three-way?

Better, he would pitch against the MFY every year.

by RSNexile on Dec 5, 2007 9:22 PM EST up reply actions

Re: Santana to the Mets in a Three-way?

If the Mets were in fact willing to move Reyes, I think the Twins would prefer him to Haren. Sounds like BS.

Manny Ramirez is a bad man

by tommy.otm on Dec 5, 2007 6:50 PM EST reply actions

Re: Santana to the Mets in a Three-way?

Agreed, Tommy. I just posted something to that extent before I made it to your post.

"You know you're having a bad day when the fifth inning rolls around and they drag the warning track." - Mike Flanagan, Baltimore Orioles pitcher, 1992.

by SoxDevil on Dec 5, 2007 10:25 PM EST up reply actions

Re: Santana to the Mets in a Three-way?

"A baseball official close to Boston management, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because he is not authorized to disclose information, said the Red Sox and Twins are continuing to negotiate on players in a possible Johan Santana deal Wednesday.
The official added that the Red Sox are making offers as if there is still competition for Santana. For what it's worth, Will Carroll of Baseball Prospectus still thinks the deal is going down, though the Twins want to know more about the condition of Jon Lester's arm before they proceed. There's been some speculation that Jacoby Ellsbury's recent move to make Scott Boras his agent could have the Twins souring on him, but with six years to go before free agency, that can't be a major concern right now"

Boras has this type of effect. The Twins actually double-taked on Ellsbury after he signed with Boras.

LOL, funny stuff.

by SoxAcumen on Dec 5, 2007 7:40 PM EST reply actions

Re: Santana to the Mets in a Three-way?

"The Twins actually double-taked on Ellsbury after he signed with Boras."

See? Another reason to like Boras right there. He scares other teams away from our coveted prospects...

Manny Ramirez is a bad man

by tommy.otm on Dec 5, 2007 7:45 PM EST up reply actions

Re: Santana to the Mets in a Three-way?

Ha! did not think of it like that. You are correct Boras should be hired by all my favorite players...

LOL.

by SoxAcumen on Dec 5, 2007 7:56 PM EST up reply actions

Re: Santana to the Mets in a Three-way?

The Boras situation is rather comical. I wonder if players will start to steer away from him now, as many teams have issues with his negotiations. Also, ARod and Rodgers both ditched Boras to re-up with their respective teams. Will this trend continue? Will Veritek dump him when it's time to negotiant with the Sox? (fingers crossed)

by Schulz on Dec 5, 2007 7:57 PM EST up reply actions

Re: Santana to the Mets in a Three-way?

Well, A-Rod didn't completely ditch Boras. The leech was back in the mix to get as much as he/they could out of the MFY. But I think it's a safe bet Varitek won't be looking too hard outside of Boston, and the Sox will offer him a fair deal, so I don't imagine Boras will be too much of a problem there.

by leberquesgue on Dec 5, 2007 9:30 PM EST up reply actions

Re: Santana to the Mets in a Three-way?

A-Rod hasn't fired Boras, and if A-Rod did fire Boras, he (Boras) is still entitled to a cut/commission on A-Rod's salary for the duration of the contract, because it was negotiated while Boras still was A-Rod's agent. From the New Yorker article, Boras charges 5% commission on contracts he negotiates for his client. So my guesstimate that is around $12.5 to $15 million to Boras over the life of the contract.

Rogers did fire Boras, and negotiated the contract himself or with someone else, so Boras isn't entitled to a penny.

by superferret on Dec 5, 2007 11:08 PM EST up reply actions

Re: Santana to the Mets in a Three-way?

Ellsbury did WHAT !?!

this is a sad day : (

by OilCanBoyd on Dec 6, 2007 5:01 AM EST up reply actions

Ellsbury's point of view

Here.

It has been a hectic week for Ellsbury, who also officially switched agents, from Joe Urbon to Scott Boras. A major impetus for the change was the all-inclusive strategy implemented by Boras' corporation, which five current members of the Red Sox major league roster already had experienced.

"Talking to the other guys on the team, it was just a good fit for me," he said. "I don't want to have to worry about anything but going out there and playing, and playing hard. I want my representation to be behind me 100 percent. That's ultimately what you want in an environment."

Before heading to Athletes' Performance in Arizona, Ellsbury will meet with the head of Boras' training staff, Steve Odgers, to formulate a fitness strategy.

"It was a situation where I talked to Scott in college, so I knew Scott and had met him, but it wasn't the best fit for me at that time," Ellsbury said. "Talking to some of the big league guys on the Red Sox, other than the comfort level with what he does with management, it was a good fit for me. I was looking for the best representation possible. They also offer the fitness aspect and everything.

"I just have to go out and play, don't have to worry about anything else, and that's what I wanted."

Manny Ramirez is a bad man

by tommy.otm on Dec 6, 2007 12:31 PM EST up reply actions

Re: Ellsbury's point of view

ty tommy !

the love affair ends before it really started : (

by OilCanBoyd on Dec 7, 2007 4:47 AM EST up reply actions

by em3 on Dec 6, 2007 11:47 AM EST reply actions

Three-way trade talk is total BS

I swear this rumor must have been cooked up by Omar Minaya himself. He's done absolutley nothing this postseason except trade away good young talent for two (yawn) average players...

Omar's trying to save his job here, and make it appear to the fans that he's still an effective GM

c'mon Omaa

xxCRACKxx flies the ball into the cool October night...

by mpieretti on Dec 6, 2007 12:07 PM EST reply actions