Epstein not sold on trading Crisp

by Randy Booth on Nov 9, 2007 1:59 PM EST in News Comment 31 comments

Nick Cafardo wrote in today's Globe that GM Theo Epstein thinks a combination of Coco Crisp and Jacoby Ellsbury could work in 2008:

Epstein emphasized the organization will take a patient approach to trades or signings in the offseason, and he will deal Crisp only if he gets top value in return. Epstein believes he can make the Sox outfield work with Crisp, a defensive gem, in the mix, along with Jacoby Ellsbury.

I'm not sure how he'd do it. I think he is saying this more from a PR standpoint. Crisp is a great defensive player, but the future is Ellsbury. And he has shown he can do it.

Anybody think Theo is playing the BS card?

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Re: Epstein not sold on trading Crisp

I'd say it's all about keeping a strong bargaining position.

"Y'know, {Kevin Towers/Frank Wren/etc.}, we don't really need to trade Coco."

by Allen Chace on Nov 9, 2007 2:18 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Epstein not sold on trading Crisp

Ive said it before, Ill say it again. Coco is the perfect 4th OF for this team. Switch hitting, speed, great defense, perfect if Jacoby struggles or Manny needs time off.

Id like to see us keep Coco, and acquire Morgan Ensberg to play 1st and 3rd ala Hinske. I know this leaves us with a hole in RF at times, but I think we can figure something out.

by Matzushocka on Nov 9, 2007 2:21 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Epstein not sold on trading Crisp

i just dont think coco's going to be happy as the 4th outfielder. I think theyr going to do what they can to try and get high value for him now, rather than wait to the offseason where coco is unhappy and they have no choice but to accept a low offer for him.

by spinz on Nov 9, 2007 3:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

oops

offseason=allstar break

by spinz on Nov 9, 2007 3:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Epstein not sold on trading Crisp

Exactly. Coco won't be happy because he knows he could go win a Gold Glove with some other team. No way he wants to be a backup.

OverTheMonster.com

by Randy Booth on Nov 9, 2007 4:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Epstein not sold on trading Crisp

**Ensberg as strictly a back up 1b/3b part timer.

by Matzushocka on Nov 9, 2007 2:26 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Epstein not sold on trading Crisp

I think it's quite doable to have Coco as the 4th OF, spelling Drew and Ellsbury enough to get three starts a week, plus frequently serving as a late-inning replacement for Manny.

I agree that it's very likely that Coco's gone, but Theo's making the simple point to his fellow GMs that the team doesn't have to accept crap in a trade given that there doesn't have to be a trade.

by argo0 on Nov 9, 2007 2:27 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Exactly

If we trade Coco, it'll be from a position of strength.

Manny Ramirez is a bad man

by tommy.otm on Nov 9, 2007 2:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Epstein not sold on trading Crisp

I don't think Coco would like being a 4th outfielder, and that forcing him into that role would create problems in the clubhouse (see Payton, Jay). It also decreases his value if we do end up trading him.

by 0157H7 on Nov 9, 2007 3:13 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Epstein not sold on trading Crisp

I don't think Coco would like it, but he strikes me as much easier going than Payton. Payton was a psycho.

Manny Ramirez is a bad man

by tommy.otm on Nov 9, 2007 3:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Epstein not sold on trading Crisp

..."was"?

by Allen Chace on Nov 9, 2007 3:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Epstein not sold on trading Crisp

Yeah, but I think Coco starts making trade demands if his role becomes the 4th OF, kinda like Jay Payton did

by Realistic on Nov 9, 2007 3:20 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Epstein not sold on trading Crisp

Oops, looks like i just echoed a comment (I forgot to hit post when I first typed it and went off to lunch)

by Realistic on Nov 9, 2007 3:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Epstein not sold on trading Crisp

Yeah, i think theo is just trying to keep coco's trade value up. If boston comes off as semi-desperate to dump crisp teams are going to low-ball them like crazy.

by spinz on Nov 9, 2007 3:48 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Epstein not sold on trading Crisp

I bet they find room for Crisp to play, even as a 4th outfielder. I think it would be pretty short-sighted to dump him immediately. Winning does pretty good things to attitudes, making me believe Crisp might just be fine hanging around to win another WS.

John

by sportingchinwag on Nov 9, 2007 4:15 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Epstein not sold on trading Crisp

I think it would be enough (short term) if Coco plays 2 full games per week plus some late-inning defense. That'd be roughly a half-time job.

"You know you're having a bad day when the fifth inning rolls around and they drag the warning track." - Mike Flanagan, Baltimore Orioles pitcher, 1992.

by SoxDevil on Nov 9, 2007 4:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Epstein not sold on trading Crisp

trade crisp , lugo (eat salary)and prospects for tejada, give lowell a 4th yaer and lets win the world series again.

the difference between a yankee stadium hot dog and a fenway frank is that they dont sell yankee dogs in october anymore.

by fishfarmr on Nov 9, 2007 5:08 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Epstein not sold on trading Crisp

if baltimore accepts that, they really are doomed:P

by spinz on Nov 9, 2007 9:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Epstein not sold on trading Crisp

I really, really don't want Miguel Tejada.

"You know you're having a bad day when the fifth inning rolls around and they drag the warning track." - Mike Flanagan, Baltimore Orioles pitcher, 1992.

by SoxDevil on Nov 10, 2007 12:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Epstein not sold on trading Crisp

I dont think anyone wants Lugo, plus he is Manny and Papi's boy and that would upset them. If we were going to do something like that Id rather trade away Lugo re-sign Lowell and sign A-Rod to play short. HAHAHA imagine that lineup!

by Matzushocka on Nov 9, 2007 5:27 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Chris Carter

Check out his stats in Venezuela.

Manny Ramirez is a bad man

by tommy.otm on Nov 9, 2007 7:26 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Chris Carter

He's a bad, bad man.

OverTheMonster.com

by Randy Booth on Nov 9, 2007 10:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Chris Carter

Youk at 3rd. Carter plus a defensively minded platoon at 1st. Not a bad plan b. Or d, e, f...

Carter's splits look quite good, though he's better at hitting righties.

Bottom 9th B:1 S:0 O:0 With Bill Mueller batting, Dave Roberts steals (1) 2nd base.

by britsoxfan on Nov 10, 2007 9:49 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Epstein not sold on trading Crisp

Check out HIS stats in MLB

http://mlb.mlb.com/stats/individual_stats_player.jsp?c_id=null&playerID=121347&statType=1

by gnick55 on Nov 10, 2007 12:40 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Epstein not sold on trading Crisp

aaand your point is???...

by spinz on Nov 10, 2007 2:15 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Epstein not sold on trading Crisp

My point is he's very good and available to be our 3B next year.

by gnick55 on Nov 10, 2007 4:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Epstein not sold on trading Crisp

thanks for that breaking news:P

by spinz on Nov 10, 2007 4:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Epstein not sold on trading Crisp

And he looks real shiny when you buff him up and make your sales pitch but A-Rod has won nothing for no one, ever.

Sox need guys who can perform in the regular season as well as the playoffs or step up to a new level in the post season.

This is obviously not A-Rod.

Let me ask you this question, if you had a choice that would guarantee that the Sox would make the playoffs with A-Rod but you cannot guarantee A-Rod's contributions in the post season or you could guarantee that if the Sox got to the playoffs in 08', that Mike Lowell would hit .400 and knock in 10+ RBIs, which would you take?

Me, since I know the Sox are almost certain to be in the playoffs anyways, i am taking Mike Lowell.

A-Rod is an unneeded waste of money and karma.

by SoxAcumen on Nov 10, 2007 4:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Epstein not sold on trading Crisp

I'm going to give you two lines from the 2007 post-season. One of these belongs to Derek Jeter. The other belongs to Alex Rodriguez.

.267 .353 .467 (1HR, 1 RBI)
.176 .176 .176 (1 RBI)

The first line is A-Rod's. Jeter's had great success in his post-season career, but he's also been awful in several series. A-Rod's had a few good series and a few bad ones, and fewer post-season appearances overall.

The playoffs are a crapshoot, a small selection size. Last year the 83-win Cardinals won it all, on the backs of Jeff Weaver and Jeff Suppan. Tell me those are proven winners. No, the team got hot at the right time, and won the World Series. It's almost impossible to say what Lowell or A-Rod will do in next year's post-season. But I do know that having A-Rod can help get you there (witness this year's Yankees, which he carried for several months).

Also, what is karma? What affects it? If the Sox lose too much karma, do they get reincarnated as the Kansas City Royals? It's hard to see A-Rod's impact on the spiritual side of the team. Hopefully it would be counterbalanced by Schilling, Drew, and Timlin's religiosity or Manny's Zen... (Call it a Karmic offset.)

by 0157H7 on Nov 10, 2007 7:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Epstein not sold on trading Crisp

Are you saying with a man on 2nd, 2 outs in the bottom of the 9th inning you would rather have A-Rod at the plate v. Jeter?

LOL, really, if your life depended on it? And are you saying that Jeter is not clutch in the playoffs?

Well, we can look at Mike Lowell's playoff stats when he was with the Sox and Fish v. A-Rod's playoff stats. Again I think we are already in the playoffs, I would rather have guys who can produce in the playoffs.

Karma? Yeah obviously 86 years did not teach you anything =).

by SoxAcumen on Nov 10, 2007 8:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Epstein not sold on trading Crisp

In the AL there is no garuntee that any team will make the playoffs. The way 2008 is shaping up the Red Sox, Yankees, Indians, Angels, Tigers, Mariners, and Twins all have decent shots at making the playoffs. And just because A-Rod hasn't produced in the playoffs as much as expections before, doesn't mean he won't in the future.

I'd also like to point out that A-Rod's postseason woes are blown out of proportion. He hit 2 HR's in the 2004 ALCS and another in the ALDS, while hitting .320 across the entire playoffs. In 2000 he hit .371 in the playoffs while hitting 2 HR and 7 RBI in 9 games. And in 4 games this year he hit a HR and had a .353 OBP while hitting .267. Although he hasn't been excellent in the playoffs, he's been decent for the most part, and just because he hasn't excelled in the playoffs in the past, doesn't mean he won't in the future.

by gnick55 on Nov 10, 2007 7:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs