Schilling "reaches agreement" with Red Sox

by britsoxfan on Nov 6, 2007 9:54 AM EST Comment 43 comments

According to ESPN, Schilling has agreed to a one-year deal "worth about $8 million in base salary and another $2 million in potential incentives".

Whichever way you slice it, that's a good deal for a pitcher of Curt's calibre and experience. It even looks like there might be a bit of a home-town discount here.

[editor's note, by Allen Chace]Sweet mother. Sounds like a good deal for us, though I figured a $10M base with incentives to possibly push it over Schill's original asking price of $13M.

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Schilling re-signed

Curt Schilling re-signed with the Sox for $8 M base with $2 M in incentives. Assuming he reaches his incentives, that's still $3 M less than his Spring Training price.

This is a great deal for the Red Sox, when a guy like Carlos Silva will probably bring in $7-9 M. Even if Schill is league average during the regular season, he's a great post-season pitcher to have and a good mentor for our young pitchers: Lester, Buchholz, MDC, etc.

The Sox will probably feature a rotation of Beckett, Dice-K, Schilling, Lester, and Wakefield next season.

I would wager that Buchholz will probably travel back & forth between AAA Pawtucket and Boston when guys go on the DL. He has less major league experience than Lester, which is why I have him starting in the minors.

"You know you're having a bad day when the fifth inning rolls around and they drag the warning track." - Mike Flanagan, Baltimore Orioles pitcher, 1992.

by SoxDevil on Nov 6, 2007 10:27 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Schilling re-signed

Agreed on all points, though I think Silva ends up with double-digits annually. Which, of course, is another reminder of why I should've spent more time when I was younger strengthening my shoulder.

by Allen Chace on Nov 6, 2007 10:33 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Schilling re-signed

Well put Allen.

I think this is an excellent signing. After the Sox picked up the options on Wake and Julian, I thought Schill would be gone for sure. But the price is definately right, and our rotation is looking stronger than ever.

Beckett
Dice-K
Schilling
Lester
Wakefield
Buccholz/Tavarez

Schill and Wake will likely be question marks throughout the year simply because they're getting old. I think Clay will have plenty of opportunities to start for the big club next year.

by Schulz on Nov 6, 2007 12:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Schilling re-signed

Maybe it will be as follows:

Beckett
Dice-K
Schilling
Lester
Buhholz

With Wakefield and Tavarez out of the bullpen for long relief.

by Longsuffering on Nov 7, 2007 10:03 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Schilling re-signed

I'd be surprised if that happens. Clay Buchholz needs to gradually work up his IP (150 was his max this past year), and the Sox are not hard-up for pitching. On most other teams he'd be penciled in for next year, but the Sox will be cautious.

"You know you're having a bad day when the fifth inning rolls around and they drag the warning track." - Mike Flanagan, Baltimore Orioles pitcher, 1992.

by SoxDevil on Nov 7, 2007 10:18 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Schilling re-signed

Is there anything to be gained from having some combination of Wakefield, Lester and Buchholz as longmen in the pen, making spot starts as needed?

Buchholz's innings pitched will only increase by about 30 in 2008 (to about 180?), so perhaps this would be the best way to eke out his arm over the whole season and, hopefully, post season. The Johan Santana plan, you might say.

Also, presumably all this increases the likelihood that Tavarez is traded, though I would favour keeping him around until we know we don't need him.

Bottom 9th B:1 S:0 O:0 With Bill Mueller batting, Dave Roberts steals (1) 2nd base.

by britsoxfan on Nov 6, 2007 10:34 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Schilling re-signed

I would think they would prefer to keep Buchholz in the routine of starting, even if to limit his innings they keep him to 3-4-5 inning stints for Pawtucket at the beginning of the season. I'm guessing the Sox will have to be offered someone "interesting" for Tavarez. I don't think they'll be actively looking to deal him, at least not yet.

by Allen Chace on Nov 6, 2007 10:38 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Schilling re-signed

I wonder. Perhaps you're right, but it should be relatively easy to stretch him out from the pen when he's required.

It would also feel odd for someone of his ability to be biding their time in Pawtucket when they could be experiencing the big club and, crucially, be exposed to the wizardry of John Farrell.

Bottom 9th B:1 S:0 O:0 With Bill Mueller batting, Dave Roberts steals (1) 2nd base.

by britsoxfan on Nov 6, 2007 10:53 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Schilling re-signed

Oh, I agree with you, I think physically Buch could do it and it'd be great to expose him more to the ML-life. However, I think we have the opportunity now to keep him on a regular routine without damaging our plan at the big-league level.

I think your idea would be extremely likely, however, if the back end of our bullpen wasn't so solid. MDC-Oki-Paps, with potentially some Timlin mixed in. Not sure how crucial the innings Buch might pitch would be.

by Allen Chace on Nov 6, 2007 10:57 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Schilling re-signed

Boston.com is saying $5 million in incentives - "$3m in performance bonuses based on innings pitched and $2m based on weight clauses."

Manny Ramirez is a bad man

by tommy.otm on Nov 6, 2007 12:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Schilling re-signed

Still good. And I mean, the clauses are related. If he does the conditioning he needs to this offseason, should clearly help with the performance as well.

by Allen Chace on Nov 6, 2007 12:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Absolutely

I'm surprised he agreed to it - he seemed a little sensitive about his weight in spring training.

Man, I wish someone would offer me a couple million to shed 20 pounds.

Manny Ramirez is a bad man

by tommy.otm on Nov 6, 2007 12:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Absolutely

Good point, re: sensitivity. To me, it's another sign of how much pitching in Boston has meant to him. Or to put it a less sickeningly-sweet way, how much he enjoys pitching in this organization and playing with all of the guys here.

Not sure that ended up being less sickening, but you get the idea.

by Allen Chace on Nov 6, 2007 12:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Absolutely

Just to point out the obvious $5 M in incentives brings Schill's to a potential $13 M, which was his initial asking price.

"You know you're having a bad day when the fifth inning rolls around and they drag the warning track." - Mike Flanagan, Baltimore Orioles pitcher, 1992.

by SoxDevil on Nov 6, 2007 1:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Absolutely

Yep.

by Allen Chace on Nov 6, 2007 1:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Absolutely

Correction: There's an addition $1 M clause for any Cy Young vote (1st, 2nd, 3rd), bringing the possible total to $14 M. If Curt achieves the Cy clause, he'll have earned it.

"You know you're having a bad day when the fifth inning rolls around and they drag the warning track." - Mike Flanagan, Baltimore Orioles pitcher, 1992.

by SoxDevil on Nov 6, 2007 2:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Schilling re-signed

Hurrah.

This is from another thread but I am happy about Wake coming back- just not a Mirabelli fan

by MassGal on Nov 6, 2007 6:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Related BB Question

During post season, Schilling hit a batter who was hanging over the plate, crouching and who turned into the pitch. I swear the pitch was a strike. What latitude does an umpire have should a batter get hit with a ball that would have been a strike?

by Longsuffering on Nov 7, 2007 10:05 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

A fun tid-bit

Shaughnessy wrote on Sunday that there was no way he was coming back, essentially because the front office hated him.

Earlier today, when Schilling announced online that he and the Sox had come to terms, he made note of CHB's article, pointed out how wrong he was, and called him "Shaugnostradamus."

I look forward to another year of Curt sticking it to CHB for sensationalism, mud-slinging, unwarranted negativity/criticism, and general stupidity.

"You know you're having a bad day when the fifth inning rolls around and they drag the warning track." - Mike Flanagan, Baltimore Orioles pitcher, 1992.

by SoxDevil on Nov 6, 2007 10:30 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

I wonder if the Hall of Fame

has factored into this. If Schilling can add to his success with Boston, making another post season and perhaps even winning the whole thing again, it would seem he improves his position from being a fringe candidate. Perhaps Schill thinks that Boston are set to be contenders again.

Never mind the personal inconvenience of moving house and kids for just one season.

Bottom 9th B:1 S:0 O:0 With Bill Mueller batting, Dave Roberts steals (1) 2nd base.

by britsoxfan on Nov 6, 2007 10:44 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Re: I wonder if the Hall of Fame

You're right on with this. This is one of those rare-ish circumstances where a guy is looking out for his personal goals and the organizational goals at the same time. I think he wants to make the Hall, and another deep run with this team would help. Similarly, getting Schill rather than absolutely relying on two rookies at the same time OR signing someone long-term like Silva is great for the Sox.

I'm okay with this move, if you can't tell. :)

by Allen Chace on Nov 6, 2007 10:59 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: I wonder if the Hall of Fame

In an ESPN chat today, Rob Neyer was asked about Schilling and the HOF. Here's his response:

He might already be in, with Catfish Hunter being a reasonable comp. Sure, a fourth ring might help, but only if he made a significant contribution.

I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.

by Drugs Delaney on Nov 6, 2007 1:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: I wonder if the Hall of Fame

Catfish had the better nickname and better speed (2 SBs vs. 0 CS, Curt: 1:1). I don't normally disagree with Neyer, but he comes off pretty obtuse with that comparison.

...

by Allen Chace on Nov 6, 2007 1:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: I wonder if the Hall of Fame

Not really ...

Catfish Hunter's career numbers:
224-166 3.26 ERA

Curt Schilling's career numbers:
216-146 3.46 ERA

When you factor in that Schilling played in a much better offensive era, the numbers are very similar.

I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.

by Drugs Delaney on Nov 6, 2007 1:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: I wonder if the Hall of Fame

I was totally kidding, DD. It's a fitting comparison, and Schill has the upper hand on Ks by quite a few, IIRC.

by Allen Chace on Nov 6, 2007 1:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Can Someone Explain this to me?!?

Maybe I'm a homer or something, but I really don't understand why there would be doubt about Schilling getting into the Hall some day. I've even heard commentary saying he's not a legit candidate. I mean, the guys been a significant part of THREE WS winning teams! My thoughts on this are: If Curt Schilling isn't a Hall of Fame candidate, what the hell's a guy gotta do to get in the HoF?!

What am I missing here?

You can take the boy outta Boston, but you can't take the Boston outta the boy.

by B Cap on Nov 6, 2007 6:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Who will he be up against?

I think that's the most important factor in assessing HOF credentials. I figure that in a typical year, at most three guys are voted in per year. Looking at the HOF website, it's been at least a couple decades since more than three wee voted in by the sportswriters (as opposed to the veterans committee) in a single year.

So the question is, who is his competition? In the next couple of years, most of these guys will be hanging up the spikes.

Starters - Clemens, Maddux, Pedro, Glavine, Johnson, Smoltz.

Relievers - Mo, Hoffman.

Hitters - Piazza, Pudge, Posada, Sheffield, Thome, Sosa, Manny, Griffey, Thomas, Biggio.

So say Thomas, Piazza, Maddux, Johnson, Glavine and Schilling all retire after this season. That puts Curt up against some pretty stiff competition, and he'd be the fourth best pitcher on the list!!! And then say after 2009 Smoltz, Sheffield, Hoffman, Sosa and Griffey retire, so its those five plus the three who didn't get in from the year before, all vying for three spots. And then after 2010 Manny, Posada, Thome, and Mariano retire. And on and on.

Don't get me wrong, I think Curt should get in, but I could see how he might slip through the cracks. A victim of his era.

Manny Ramirez is a bad man

by tommy.otm on Nov 6, 2007 6:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Who will he be up against?

Thank You...couldn't have asked for better.

You can take the boy outta Boston, but you can't take the Boston outta the boy.

by B Cap on Nov 6, 2007 8:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Who will he be up against?

I second that. Great analysis, Tommy.

OverTheMonster.com

by Randy Booth on Nov 7, 2007 5:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Schilling "reaches agreement"

Clemens cost the Yanks $28 mil (pro-rated obviously) to give them the following production:

4.14 ERA, 99 IP, 68 SO, 1.31 WHIP

Compared to what Schilling gave us last year:

3.87 ERA, 151 IP, 101 SO, 1.25 WHIP

A no risk, one year contract for only $8 mil + incentives that max at a total $10 mil? Yeah I'm definitely pleased with this signing.

by Realistic on Nov 6, 2007 11:35 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Schilling "reaches agreement"

An even better comparison is with the one-year contract Maddux just signed with the Padres, at 1 year, $10m. So at most we're paying the same for a pitcher with better numbers (Maddux had a 4.14 ERA despite pitching in the easier league and having half his starts in pitcher-friendly San Diego). Again, another sign that we got a good deal.

by argo0 on Nov 6, 2007 12:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Sweet.

I like it. Seems like a good way to ease Lester, Buchholz and others into the rotation. I assume we'll see Buchholz on a pretty strict pitch count to begin the year so he'll be stronger down the stretch.

Manny Ramirez is a bad man

by tommy.otm on Nov 6, 2007 11:58 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

:) Keepin it together

Great price we got him for, glad to see it. I think we will re-sign Lowell this week as well.

by Matzushocka on Nov 6, 2007 12:34 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Schilling "reaches agreement"

"Sounds like" a good deal? Uh-uh.

This is a great deal!

by RSNexile on Nov 6, 2007 1:45 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Schilling "reaches agreement"

C'mon. You know the only thing I'll get that excited for this offseason is when our 4th OF is revealed.

by Allen Chace on Nov 6, 2007 1:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Schilling "reaches agreement"

Trade Coco to Washington for WMP?

by RSNexile on Nov 6, 2007 1:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Schilling "reaches agreement"

Keep Kielty

I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.

by Drugs Delaney on Nov 6, 2007 1:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Schilling "reaches agreement"

Hahahahha. Oh how you like to kid.

He had to go to that death to XBH ballpark and slug and show some patience and not completely embarass himself in the OF.

Way to piss a blogger off, WMP.

by Allen Chace on Nov 6, 2007 1:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Is it crazy...

... to suggest a 6-man rotation with Buchholz in the mix? Beckett and Matsuzaka pitch on a normal 5-day schedule. The remaining 3 spots in the rotation go with a 4 pitcher rotation, mixing Buchholz in. This would give the old arms a rest and limit the number of innings on Lester & Buchholz' arms.

"You know you're having a bad day when the fifth inning rolls around and they drag the warning track." - Mike Flanagan, Baltimore Orioles pitcher, 1992.

by SoxDevil on Nov 6, 2007 1:47 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Is it crazy...

I think that's too "out there" for baseball teams right now. The Sox are quite progressive in their ways, but I don't think Tito would want to manage a rotation like that.

OverTheMonster.com

by Randy Booth on Nov 6, 2007 1:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Is it crazy...

It does cause some additional complication due to roster size, but the Sox have the versatility to pull it off with a reduced bench.

"You know you're having a bad day when the fifth inning rolls around and they drag the warning track." - Mike Flanagan, Baltimore Orioles pitcher, 1992.

by SoxDevil on Nov 6, 2007 2:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Is it crazy...

Well, also it messes up Pitchers routine. You get veterans like Schilling and they have a perfected routine on what to do day one after a start, day two, etc. You throw in an extra day and they have to completely change their "off day" routine.

I don't know if you remember near the beginning of the season when the commentators would mention how Dice-K was trying out different things for his rountine, some of this had to do with the fact that he was use to a 6-man rotation, so he had to come up with a new routine (this wasn't the only reason, but it was one of the reasons)

by Realistic on Nov 6, 2007 5:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

6 Man Rotation

I like the six man rotation for teams who have a high amount of average pitchers, but for the Red Sox it makes no sense to keep guys like Beckett and Dice-K waiting when they could be pitching. Moving to a 6 man rotation would cost Beckett and Dice-K (who I think will dominate in 08) about 6 or 7 starts each.

by gnick55 on Nov 6, 2007 10:01 PM EST reply actions 0 recs