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Hunter and Santana [Promoted Diary]

Tiny by gnick55 on Comment 38 comments

Suprising everyone, Torii Hunter signed a 5yr/90mil deal with the Angels last night. This means that the Angels now have 6 OF for 4 spots including DH and opens the door for one of their young OF to be traded in a Miguel Cabrera deal.

Although the Angels severly overpaid for Hunter if they are able to pull off a Miguel Cabrera deal they will be one of the top hitting teams in baseball next year.

In Red Sox related news the Sox are apparently in on Johan Santana, but unwilling to part with both Buchholz and Ellsbury. The Red Sox probably will offer Coco Crisp, Buchholz or Lester, and at least two other solid minor leaguers.

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/baseball/red_sox/view.bg?articleid=1046361

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Hunter
I don't get this at all.

5 years, $90 million.

Yes, the Angels needed offense. But they already had five outfielders - Vlad, Juan Rivera, Gary Matthews, Garrett Anderson, and Reggie Willits. Yes, Anderson and Rivera could both use a number of games at DH. And yes, Hunter had a career year last season.

But his career stats aren't much better than Anderson's, Rivera's, or Matthews'. Or they're at least not that much better to justify spending $18 million a year.

On the plus side for us, the trade market for Coco Crisp grows stronger. Chicago, Texas, Minnesota and Baltimore were all linked linked to Hunter at one point or another. Hopefully, the prospect of giving Aaron Rowand $50 million over the next four years will convince those teams that perhaps giving up a high ceiling catching prospect (Teagarden, ahem) for Coco's services isn't so bad. Or, as gnick suggests, Mr. Santana...

Manny Ramirez is a bad man

by tommy.otm on Nov 22, 2007 12:30 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Hunter
Agreed.  Hunter, with his career .324 OBP, is a severely overrated player.  Wow Mike Lowell, what a bargain!  

Another big signing/trade by LA and Angels fans will have nothing to whine about because their team's payroll and Boston's will be very close.

I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.

by Drugs Delaney on Nov 22, 2007 2:26 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Hunter and Santana
I love the Hunter deal. It's like, "um, yeah. When everyone said we were making a mistake with Mathews last season...you all were right."

Btw, kids, if you can find the blog that equates the following package:

Ian Kennedy, Melky Cabrera, Dellin Betances (48!?!? professional IP, 24 BB, 1.29 WHIP), Jose Tabata

WITH

Dustin Pedroia, Clay Buchholz, Jacoby Ellsbury, Jon Lester.

If you can find that blog, you get a prize.

Holy f'in Moses.

by Allen Chace on Nov 22, 2007 12:35 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Hunter and Santana
i give up, who the hell said that? Really a yankee equivalence is more like.... joba, hughes, robinson cano, and melky....and id still take our 4 over them....

by spinz on Nov 22, 2007 3:27 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Hunter and Santana
Melky is a weak link in that conversation. His .718 OPS last year was just a hair above Coco.
Manny Ramirez is a bad man

by tommy.otm on Nov 22, 2007 4:32 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Hunter and Santana
It was at Pinstripe Alley, SBN's Yankee blog. I was just...flabbergasted, completely.

by Allen Chace on Nov 22, 2007 4:56 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Hunter and Santana
Yankee fans are really being ridiculous about their prospects. They act as if they have 3 Santanas in IPK, Hughes, and Joba. They also act as if they have a bank of prospects that they could ship off for Santana instead of giving away their more promising few.

I would love to see the day fans realize IPK is not Santana, Hughes is not Santana, and Chamberlain is not Santana.

by Albert Chang on Nov 22, 2007 1:22 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Hunter and Santana
The Angels GM is crazy.  Unless they turn around and trade for Santana or Miggy C., they are just adding, and overpaying btw, for positions they do not need.

This move is FANTASTIC for the Sox though, Coco's price just went up a prospect or two...

Now the Sox should definately make a move for a big name front line pitcher like Kazmir, Bedard, Haren or even Santana.

We might be able to get one of those guys for Coco + Lester + prospects and leave Tacoby and Clay on the roster.

by SoxAcumen on Nov 22, 2007 2:32 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Hunter and Santana
i agree with your thinking and your order of priority besides, i do not want Santana to be a Red Sox (not even as an FA).

Kazmir is the real deal here.

otherwise Bedard or even Hamels if he would be available (i would guess the Phils won't trade him for Buddha and Zarathustra but you never know).

if they go after Haren they should keep Lester (so you have to give Buchholz which i do not like either).

so Kazmir and Bedard would be the best deals and Bedard already might be available (at least there were some rumors about it) while Kazmir could be a traget next year.

about Mr. Ellsbury my opinion is simple:
NEVER TRADE MR. ELLSBURY !

by OilCanBoyd on Nov 23, 2007 8:16 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Hunter and Santana
It just goes to further show that mike lowell signed a hometown discount. Somebody was gonna offer him too much money(though not 90 milion) like hunter has obtained.

by spinz on Nov 22, 2007 3:24 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Hunter and Santana
Someone on MLBTR.com just coined the Angels:

The Los Angeles Yankees of Anaheim for their ability to overpay for all their FA and never win.

LOL funny stuff.

by SoxAcumen on Nov 22, 2007 5:00 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Hunter and Santana
In their defense, when you bid against yourself, you'll always win.

Then again, you'll always lose too.

by Allen Chace on Nov 22, 2007 5:35 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Hunter and Santana [Promoted Diary]
"I'm a general manager. My team plays in Anaheim, but its name mentions Los Angeles. I plan all my important decisions in the astral plane, and make deals in La-La-Land. So I need a player who represents where I work - a place called Analostrallalaland." - Tony Reagins, on acquiring Torii Hunter.

by 0157H7 on Nov 22, 2007 9:30 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Hunter and Santana [Promoted Diary]
Id do Buchholz,Lester Crisp and other prospects for Santana,  IF given window to work out extension. If we cannot extend Santana before the trade HELL NO to any deal. If we trade Jacoby I will be beyond pissed, he should be untouchable. I will sounds nuts here,but I think Youk could very well be dealt to the Twins to play 3rd, in place of Jacoby in any deal. Do not be suprised...ya never know.

by Matzushocka on Nov 22, 2007 9:42 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Hunter and Santana [Promoted Diary]
I'd def. do Crisp, Lester, Bowden/Masterson, Lowrie for Santana. They probably want Buch or 'Bury for sure, though.
OverTheMonster.com

by Randy Booth on Nov 22, 2007 10:05 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Hunter and Santana [Promoted Diary]
Funnily enough, I reckon Coco would do really well in Minnesota.  I'd love to keep Buchholz, so losing Lester, Coco and a few top notch prospects doesn't faze me...How about this..

Santana
Beckett
Dice-K
Schill
Buchholz

Now THAT's a rotation!

by sydneysox on Nov 22, 2007 10:05 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Hunter and Santana [Promoted Diary]
Who does Minnesota have slotted into CF now that Hunter is gone?
OverTheMonster.com

by Randy Booth on Nov 22, 2007 10:06 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Hunter and Santana [Promoted Diary]
Nobody, that's why Coco's value is so high, especially combined with the fact that the Twins FO has always loved Crisp and I've heard have also been high on Lester for a while now too.

Personally I don't get what is so great about Lester. Sure he has a been a gutsy performer, and I'd feel a little hesitant to trade him after all he has been through, but he hasn't ever been all that great. I heard some people comparing his to Papelbon as a prospect and that just sounds insane. I would be extremely happy if Lester, Coco, Lowrie, Bowden/Masterson, were traded for Santana.

by gnick55 on Nov 22, 2007 10:26 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Hunter and Santana [Promoted Diary]
When Lester and Papelbon were in the minors together, Lester > Papelbon. The only reason Papelbon surpassed Lester and got into the big leagues faster was because he's older. In the same weekend, Papelbon and Pedroia were promoted to AAA while Lester was held back due to his age.

We haven't seen the best of Lester yet. We're going to see the best of him in '08. Factoring in rookie jitters and, obviously, the cancer, Lester hasn't had the chance to succeed without anything on his shoulders. I think he'll be great in 2008.

OverTheMonster.com

by Randy Booth on Nov 22, 2007 10:36 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Hunter and Santana [Promoted Diary]
I would love this deal too, but the Twins are looking for position players more than pitching.  They would demand Melky, Cano, and Pitching from the Yankees.

by Schulz on Nov 24, 2007 9:31 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Hunter and Santana [Promoted Diary]
If a CF goes in a package for Santana, it'll either be Ellsbury, or it'll be Coco packaged with Buch.

by Allen Chace on Nov 22, 2007 11:33 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Hunter and Santana [Promoted Diary]
I'm sorry, this deal is completely ridiculous. The Angels had outfield depth before they acquired Hunter, certainly enough to cover whatever punishment GMJ might incur. Wilits / Chone could have covered CF and provided good production. Wilits, in his ROOKIE SEASON, had a higher on base percentage than Hunter ever has (.390, to .324 career).

The Angels needed a big bat (for the 3rd, 4th season in a row?). Their front office got them an overpriced, middling CF (for the 2nd season in a row) for slugger money. There's still time to get a big bat, but I'm not sure they won't botch it. And even if they get Cabrera, eventually they'll need to sign him.

At this point, I feel sorry for the Angels fans. Their team has a superb farm system and high payroll, a combination which should make them a playoff powerhouse. Instead they waste their resources on luxuries (GMJ, Hunter) instead of spending them on needs (slugger).

by 0157H7 on Nov 22, 2007 10:05 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Hunter and Santana [Promoted Diary]
They'll be feeling the pain in their wallets soon enough. Hunter's career is only on the downfall. Hunter may replicate similar numbers to last season, but nothing any better. The Angels really make a lot of moves that can scratch the noggin.
OverTheMonster.com

by Randy Booth on Nov 22, 2007 10:08 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Hunter and Santana [Promoted Diary]
Surely the moves the Angels have made point to acquiring Miggy?  They have outfielders who are superfluous to their overall plans and must surely package them with some prospects for Miggy...its the only thing that makes sense.

by sydneysox on Nov 22, 2007 10:13 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Hunter and Santana [Promoted Diary]
I can't see the halos going for more SP.  They need a power bat.  Its been their main weakness for the past 4 years.  You need 2 power bats to win in the playoffs(along with 3 good starters and 3 good relievers)  Their rotation is one of the top 3 in the league and Vlad can look like a 50 yr old man at times, they need some grunt behind (in front?) him

by sydneysox on Nov 22, 2007 11:56 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Hunter and Santana [Promoted Diary]
"...they need some grunt behind (in front?) him"

that is what i am always loughing about.
how do you protect a guy swinging (AND CRUSHING)at bouncing balls (do you really think he stops swinging because he has protection or that it would be good for his game?).

Vlad himself may be the best protection in all of baseball but i doubt that he could change his style totally and be much more succesful then right now.

how about:

#1 Mr. Ellsbury
#2 Ortiz
#3 Ramirez
#4 Vlad
#5 Lowell/Drew

by OilCanBoyd on Nov 23, 2007 8:37 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Hunter and Santana [Promoted Diary]
Are you proposing that we try to trade for Vlad?

by Schulz on Nov 24, 2007 9:35 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Hunter and Santana [Promoted Diary]
no, not really.

it is just where i think he would fit best in a powerfull line up (like ours, in Anaheim he is lost anyway).

by OilCanBoyd on Nov 24, 2007 1:16 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Hunter and Santana [Promoted Diary]
I hear the Angels like CFs. We could trade them Coco Crisp, Jacoby Ellsbury, and J D Drew, all of whom can man CF, for Reggie Willits and Vladi.

The Angels' lineup would look like this:
OF Jacoby Ellsbury
2B Howie Kendrick
OF Garret Anderson
OF Torii Hunter
SS Maicer Izturis (#5 Hitter for the Ages)
OF Gary Matthews Jr
OF J D Drew
1B Casey Kotchman
C Coco Crisp

P Chone Figgins

This way, they can employ an Ortiz-like shift on every batter. I think Coco would make a great catcher, btw. His blinding speed will help track down passed balls.

by 0157H7 on Nov 24, 2007 1:22 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Hunter and Santana [Promoted Diary]
I may have to delete this post in fear of the Angels ownership reading the site and taking your ideas...
OverTheMonster.com

by Randy Booth on Nov 24, 2007 5:15 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Hunter and Santana [Promoted Diary]
Agreed, especially the part about Hunter's production compared to Figgins' and Willets'.  Hunter is similar offensively to OC (albeit with more power).  $18 million is a lot to shell out, especially when you create an OF log jam.  I can only assume the Angels will make another deal or two.

I can't feel too sorry for whiny Angels fans.  They kill us all the time on Halos Heaven.  Now their payroll is climbing and they haven't really improved their team.

I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.

by Drugs Delaney on Nov 22, 2007 10:15 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Hunter and Santana [Promoted Diary]
"I'm sorry, this deal is completely ridiculous."

right.

on the other hand it makes the Drew deal does not look so bad at all anymore : -)

by OilCanBoyd on Nov 23, 2007 8:39 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

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