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I Want Another WS, I Don't Want A-Rod [Frontpagealicious]

[editor's note, by Allen Chace] I can take subtle hints, even if they're from ecoli.

ll be the first to admit A-Rod is a great player, a first-ballot Hall of Famer.  But I really don't want the Red Sox to sign him, even if Mike Lowell leaves.  

Part of my reason for not wanting the Sox to sign A-Rod is a visceral disdain for a player known as Slappy McBluelips.  Most importantly, I think signing A-Rod to a high-priced, long-term contract is a bad baseball move.  Here are my reasons for hoping the Sox pass on A-Rod:  

(1) He isn't worth the money
There is no way A-Rod or any other player is worth $30+ million.  The Red Sox don't have unlimited money, and they shouldn't invest 20% or more of their payroll in one player.  $30 million dollars will buy a team two All-Star caliber players or three very good players.  

The MFY, who have more resources than the Sox, reached their payroll limit because of the luxury tax MLB imposes on high payrolls.  Even big market teams need payroll flexibility, which is why the MFY, Sox, Angels, etc. are reluctant to trade prospects or young players unless they get the right deal.  

(2) Even with a 4-year contract, Lowell is a much better fit
I know a lot of people who post on this site would be reluctant to give Mike Lowell even a 4-year contract.  Why?  A-Rod will cost $30-35 million and is looking for 7 or more years.  Lowell is only one year older than A-Rod and has been very durable over his career.  If the Sox aren't willing to pay Lowell until he is 37, why pay A-Rod a fortune when he is 38-42?  Sure, as I said before, A-Rod is a better player than Lowell--but he isn't $15-20 million per year better.    

(3) A-Rod's troubles in NYC should be a warning to the Sox
New York is hard place to play, but Boston is tougher.  The Sox are a regional team with a rabid fanbase and writers who love to take potshots at star players.  Players have a hard time going out without being bothered (David Wells said it was impossible to sit in a restaurant or bar without hordes of people descending on him).  Attention of this kind is OK when players or the team is doing well.  But when things aren't ...   You have to be very thick-skinned to play for the Red Sox.  Does anyone think A-Rod fits this description?    

New York City is more cosmopolitan than Boston, has two teams, and more than half the people on the street could care less about baseball.  There are so many other celebrities, which creates space for pro athletes to go about their business (again, see David Wells).  In short, it's a much easier place to be a player; yet A-Rod had trouble.

(4) The Sox don't need A-Rod to put them over the top
Last time I checked, Boston had won two titles without "the game's best player."  Getting beyond A-Rod's reputation as "The Cooler" is the fact that he has never been popular with his teammates.  That doesn't seem to be the case with Mike Lowell, who is very popular.

A-Rod's post-season troubles are well known.  Just in case you haven't seen the numbers, since Game 3 of the 2004 ALCS, A-Rod has hit .133 AVG in 60 ABs with 1 double, 1 HR, and 1 RBI (19 strikeouts).  Since 2005, A-Rod is 0 for 20 with runners on base, and half of those ABs ended with a strikeout.  (In the 2007 post-season, Julio Lugo hit .271 AVG/.340 OBP, scored 7 runs and drove in 3--we all know what Mike Lowell did).

(5) Replacing Manny right now is not imperative
Manny's production will be hard to replace.  But, 2008 isn't necessarily Manny's last year on the Sox.  I believe the team holds two option years at $20 million per.  If Manny is healthy and hits well, I expect him to be back in '09 and maybe even 2010.  Even if the Sox cut Manny loose, they might be able to off-set his loss via free agency (next year's crop of free agents is much better) or via a trade.  It is not imperative to replace Manny with A-Rod.  

In my opinion, the Sox should pass on A-Rod.  I'm still hoping they re-sign Mike Lowell for 3-4 years at $36-56 million, a bargain compared to what they'd pay for Slappy and all of his baggage.

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Re: I Want Another WS, I Don't Want A-Rod
Amen!

And to all those who say Lowell's numbers are inflated by Fenway, or that A-Rod's playoff woes are a function of not playing in Fenway, consider that MFY Stadium ain't exactly the Polo Grounds. And recall also that signing the best player on the free agent market doesn't always work out so great -- remember last year's signing of JD Drew?

by RSNexile on Nov 11, 2007 3:51 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Mike Lowell @ Fenway
RSNexile, I'm not sure if you saw this.  I posted Lowell's home and road splits here.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.

by Drugs Delaney on Nov 11, 2007 4:13 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Mike Lowell @ Fenway
Well, there it is. It's bizarre that his splits would work out like that, but there's no reason to trust that this year's splits are more representative of Lowell's true level of ability than last year's.

by RSNexile on Nov 11, 2007 4:19 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Mike Lowell @ Fenway
Agreed.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.

by Drugs Delaney on Nov 11, 2007 4:21 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Well said Drugs
Manny Ramirez is a bad man

by tommy.otm on Nov 11, 2007 5:50 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Re: I Want Another WS, I Don't Want A-Rod
Im only for signing A-Rod in the event Lowell leaves and signs w/ the MFY. The ten year contract Boras is seeking, isnt exactly accurate because you can bet ur ass he will ask for another opt out clause probably around year 5. I also like the A-Rod idea because I do not want to trade away our prospects for another quality third baseman. I fear we will end up doing something stupid, and playing Moss or Carter at 1st. I do not like that idea because if Nancy struggles again in 08...we have no 5 hitter. Giving Lowell a 4 year deal is NOT smart, no matter how ya look at it. Ya know what though, this is a good problem have to debate, MLBTRADERUMORS.com states the Reds have 6 mill to spend in the off season. 6 friggin million. O yeah, and Dusty Baker on top of that. Life is good. I say we overpay on a 3 year deal for Lowell and get this over with.

by Matzushocka on Nov 11, 2007 9:22 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Re: I Want Another WS, I Don't Want A-Rod
The important issue with the Reds having $6M to spend is the idea that they would ask Adam Dunn to waive his NTC. ...bring it.

by Allen Chace on Nov 11, 2007 9:34 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: I Want Another WS, I Don't Want A-Rod
Now I know an out is an out--it doesn't matter if it's a K or a fly out--but I'm still not big on strikeout machines.
"You know you're having a bad day when the fifth inning rolls around and they drag the warning track." - Mike Flanagan, Baltimore Orioles pitcher, 1992.

by SoxDevil on Nov 12, 2007 9:28 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: I Want Another WS, I Don't Want A-Rod
SD, look at his OBP. He's one of the best players in MLB at being consistent in not making outs. He'll strike out almost 200 times a year and make 6 other outs.

by Allen Chace on Nov 12, 2007 9:42 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: I Want Another WS, I Don't Want A-Rod
But he's a brute in the field. Is the idea to have him play 1st base? Ugh.
Manny Ramirez is a bad man

by tommy.otm on Nov 12, 2007 9:49 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: I Want Another WS, I Don't Want A-Rod
A brute? C'mon. He was only one of the worst defensive OFs in the game last season.

Yeah, 1B. I get a feeling he could play there like a Papi with good knees. Scoops and in general saving throws from his IFs: good. Taking the burden off of the 2B to make all the plays on the right side of the IF: bad.

by Allen Chace on Nov 12, 2007 10:00 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Dr. Strangeglove
Career fielding percentage of .986 at 1B (League average is .993). I think it'd be about two days before the Dick Stuart comps started. (BTW, Stuart's career FP at 1st was .982, and league average during his career was .990.)
Manny Ramirez is a bad man

by tommy.otm on Nov 12, 2007 10:05 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: I Want Another WS, I Don't Want A-Rod
That would be nice.  He's a sub-par outfielder though, so I would want to play him at 1B

As I see it, these are our corner infield options this off-season.

  1. Resign Lowell- 3 years, 13/14 million a year.
  2. Sign A-Rod McSlappy- hopefully no more than 8 years at 30 per.
  3. Trade for Cabrera- although I don't like this option as it would cost too much in prospects.
Those are the obvious three, but if Lowell goes to the MFY, A-Rod signs somewhere in Cali, and another team can pony up more prospects than the Sox, it's time to think outside the box:
  1. Trade for Dunn- play him at first, shift youk to third.
  2. Trade for Miggy Tejada- stick him at 3b
  3. Trade for Teixera- play him at first, shift youk to third.
  4. Anything else creative? I'm out of ideas. What do you think?
(Also, is there any truth to the Dan Haren rumors? I send a package including Crisp and Lester for him in a heartbeat.)

by Schulz on Nov 12, 2007 9:43 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: I Want Another WS, I Don't Want A-Rod
It would be Dunn at 1B if we got him.

You've listed just about all the options that would result in "even" or "upgrade" to the offense. I will say, I'm not interested in the older Miggy myself.

by Allen Chace on Nov 12, 2007 9:48 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Maybe another good young player
What about Jeremy Hermida? He is a young outfielder with decent power and he could also play some first base. I believe he hit 296 in his first year in the bigs and is likely to get better with experience. We could get him for less than Cabrera or some of the others being floated here. He strikes out a bit, but compared too Dunn he is good in that area. If and when Manny goes, we will need some right handers with decent power in the lineup. Youklis and Lowell fill that bill along with Manny but time is marching on.

by Longsuffering on Nov 12, 2007 10:50 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Maybe another good young player
I like Hermedia, I believe he's still projected to be a star. I think the Marlins would want a fair amount for him, as he's one of the bats they hope would replace Cabrera.

I like the idea of Carlos Quentin replacing Manny down the road too. The D'Backs just signed Byrnes for another few years, essentially blocking Quentin, so maybe he could be had for a song.

Manny Ramirez is a bad man

by tommy.otm on Nov 12, 2007 11:12 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Maybe another good young player
Quentin had a low 200's batting average and may improve, but I would want someone with a better stick. The idea of a young player though makes more sense. Probably could sign one for 15% of what A-Rod will get and be set for years to come. As much as I question Drew in the batters box, we could have Ellsbury, Drew and a good quality young outfielder, thats not too bad.

by Longsuffering on Nov 12, 2007 11:25 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: I Want Another WS, I Don't Want A-Rod
Great diary, Drugs. Maybe it should be promoted to balance out the pro-A-Rod ones (hint hint).

I'll respond to a couple of your points.
1) $30 million will buy a couple all-stars.
 I think that is increasingly unlikely. With increased revenue for all teams (revenue sharing / subsidies), mid and low payroll teams have a growing ability to extend their best players.

 What this means is that the FA market gets worse. Middling players like Carlos Silva (this year's top young FA) leap to the fore. Barry Zito got $19 million a year last season. It's quite possible that $30 million wouldn't get you anyone worth having.

 Rodriguez is as close to a sure thing as you can get. Last year he was struggling, pressing, dealing with demons within and without (media, fans). He still hit .290/.392/.523 with 35 HR. We all know what he did this year. If any player is worth $30 million per year, he is... More to the point, I don't see any good alternatives on the FA horizon. Maybe Teixeira or Cabrera.

4) The Sox don't need A-Rod to win the WS.

 They certainly don't need him next year. But the other playoff contenders do. Getting A-Rod is also keeping him off the Angels or the Yankees. In future years, when we might get competition from the Yankees, Jays or Rays*, A-Rod may provide the needed muscle to get to the playoffs (as he did for NYY this year).

5) Replacing Manny is not an issue now.

 The Sox farm system lacks in power-hitters; we have few beyond Lars Andersen and Chris Carter. Manny is declining. He's missed 29 and 32 games in 06 and 07 respectively. His slugging (.493) was lower this year than any previous one except his first call-up in 1993; every other year he slugged at least .520, and often much more. I don't see the Sox getting any more 150 game / 30+ HR seasons out of him. Third, we've grown accustomed to having a power-hitting catcher, a type of player that is difficult to replace; it is quite possible that we'll have much less power in the future from C.

 Signing A-Rod hedges against future loss of power, something that our farm system isn't well-stocked with. Offense (and Manny) may not be a big concern for next year, but it is in the long-term.

* I think the Devil Rays may be a serious threat in 2009 or 10. They have a decent offense now, and two front-line pitchers (Kazmir, James Shields). If they can build a working bullpen and get slightly more offense they could be a contender.

by 0157H7 on Nov 12, 2007 1:24 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Devil Rays
I've been hearing rumors about the Rays finally trading one of their young outfielders for pitching. Like D. Young for Lincecum. That could speed up their progress considerably.
Manny Ramirez is a bad man

by tommy.otm on Nov 12, 2007 9:34 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Devil Rays
If I were the Rays, I'd try to get Elijah Dukes out of Tampa. Dukes is a Tampa native and know all the wrong people. He needs a change of scenery in the worst way. If it takes another mid-level prospect to deal Dukes for Lincecum, so be it. That would be a great trade for the Rays.
"You know you're having a bad day when the fifth inning rolls around and they drag the warning track." - Mike Flanagan, Baltimore Orioles pitcher, 1992.

by SoxDevil on Nov 12, 2007 9:54 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Devil Rays
I think Dukes' value has really bottomed out. Their in a bind - they're not going to get "fair value" for him until he proves that he can act like an adult and play at a pro level, but he's not going to do that in Tampa Bay. Someone somewhere suggested trading him for Scott Olsen, the Marlins' headcase-pitcher.
Manny Ramirez is a bad man

by tommy.otm on Nov 12, 2007 10:00 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: I Want Another WS, I Don't Want A-Rod
Lars Anderson is actually a good power project--he's too far away to call a prospect--in our farm system, but I agree with you that the Sox are lacking in the power department.

In the last 5-10 years the Sox' strategy for drafting was to select as many quality arms and high-ceiling guys up the middle (C, 2B, SS, CF) as they could. You can see the fruits of those efforts now, especially if you incorporate traded prospects, such as Hanley Ramirez. When the Sox began this strategy, good shortstops were extraordinarily rare (Nomar, Tejada, A-Rod being the big ones) and it was easier to sign big bats in free agency.

With fewer and fewer quality free agents hitting the market, and therefore driving up the price, it seems like many of the premier corner players are beginning to decline, so perhaps we'll see a shift. With Pedroia succeeding, Ellsbury about to begin a full-time gig, and Lowrie still in the system, I wouldn't be surprised if the Sox focus a bit more on 3B/RF players (you can always moved a 3B to 1B and a RF to LF).

"You know you're having a bad day when the fifth inning rolls around and they drag the warning track." - Mike Flanagan, Baltimore Orioles pitcher, 1992.

by SoxDevil on Nov 12, 2007 9:36 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: I Want Another WS, I Don't Want A-Rod [Frontpa
Ultimately, I think the Angels need ARod more than the Sox do, and the Angels will offer more than the Sox will.  Reportedly, the Boras meeting with Theo didn't spend a lot of time talking about ARod.  It is, however, definitely in the interests of the Red Sox to drive up ARod's price for whoever ultimately signs him.  

I like the idea of moving Youkilis to 3b and finding a new 1B.  It is much easier to simply drop a big bat on 1B and force him to field a little bit.

Mind you, I'm not anti-Lowell.  I just suspect the Yankees are aiming for him and will offer him more than the Sox will.  I'd be OK with either Cabrera or Dunn joining the sox.  Teixeira would be great, but is there any reason to think he'd be leaving Atlanta?  

I happen to like Tejada.  I don't know where this "disgruntled" bit came from, but when I was living in the DC area, Tejada always had a great reputation from the local Orioles coverage.  (And since Angelos has an evil grip on the DC area, there's a lot of Orioles coverage in DC.)  No, he's not the player he was in 2001-2004, but he's far from done.  He's only 31.  If he's disgruntled or playing sub-par, that might have something to do with the fact that he's been on the Orioles for  four seasons and they've SUCKED every year.  Tejada deserves better than that.

Or, to put it another way, there's no way you can convince me Tejada brings half the baggage that JD Drew did.  

Richie Sexson?  No way in hell.  He's done.  

by RickD on Nov 13, 2007 6:02 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Re: I Want Another WS, I Don't Want A-Rod [Frontpa
Unless, of course, Tejada is named in Mitchell's January steroid report...
"You know you're having a bad day when the fifth inning rolls around and they drag the warning track." - Mike Flanagan, Baltimore Orioles pitcher, 1992.

by SoxDevil on Nov 13, 2007 10:09 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: I Want Another WS, I Don't Want A-Rod [Frontpa
Even if he is named (and I wouldn't be surprised) I'd still take him. He's presumably been off the juice for three or four years, and he's still putting up pretty good numbers on a crap team.
Manny Ramirez is a bad man

by tommy.otm on Nov 13, 2007 11:23 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

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