Schilling reflects on new-found Free Agency
For the first time ever, Curt Schilling is a free agent:
It'll be interesting to see how Schilling handles all of the negotiations. I wonder if Theo Epstein & Co. will approach the deal differently considering Schilling is representing himself. I don't think the Sox will low-ball him, but I don't think they'll be especially wowing him either.
What does everyone think? Will the Red Sox re-sign Schilling? Answer the poll and leave a comment!
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Re: Schilling reflects on new-found Free Agency
by sydneysox on
Oct 31, 2007 9:03 PM EDT
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Re: Schilling reflects on new-found Free Agency
You gotta love having another guy who just comes up big over and over in the playoffs, even if he's not a frontline starter during the regular season. And keeping Schilling around as injury insurance, hilarious as it sounds, makes a certain amount of sense---assuming that Wakefield and Schilling alternate their respective stints on the DL.
Money-wise, I can't imagine anyone's giving Schilling $13 million. He's got a great career behind him but I don't know anyone who believes he's got a really good season in front of him. Another 9-10 wins, ERA around 4.25, and the sentimental value of him retiring with his Sox on, I would value at $8-9M.
by Tony the pony on
Nov 1, 2007 6:13 PM EDT
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Re: Schilling reflects on new-found Free Agency
by argo0 on
Oct 31, 2007 11:18 PM EDT
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Re: Schilling reflects on new-found Free Agency
by Randy Booth on
Oct 31, 2007 11:20 PM EDT
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Re: Schilling reflects on new-found Free Agency
by 0157H7 on
Nov 1, 2007 12:27 AM EDT
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Re: Schilling reflects on new-found Free Agency
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/al/2007-10-31-elias-rankings-complete_N.htm
So is Mike Lowell. Timlin is a type B.
by 0157H7 on
Nov 1, 2007 12:49 AM EDT
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Re: Schilling reflects on new-found Free Agency
by Randy Booth on
Nov 1, 2007 7:34 AM EDT
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Re: Schilling reflects on new-found Free Agency
by britsoxfan on
Nov 1, 2007 8:06 AM EDT
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Yup, confirmed
by britsoxfan on
Nov 1, 2007 8:15 AM EDT
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Re: Schilling reflects on new-found Free Agency
and we keep Lowell at third, get A-Rod at short, Ellsbury at Center, and pick up arms and a Right fielder?
by dereau on
Nov 1, 2007 1:07 AM EDT
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Re: Schilling reflects on new-found Free Agency
by redsoxrocko on
Nov 1, 2007 1:55 AM EDT
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Re: Schilling reflects on new-found Free Agency
by RickD on
Nov 1, 2007 12:54 PM EDT
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The Roger Clemens school of denial.
by NG on
Nov 1, 2007 9:01 AM EDT
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Re: The Roger Clemens school of denial.
Of course, Clemens still had the heater well into his 40s. Schilling is already losing his.
Schilling is a very smart pitcher and I think he'll pitch well next year, wherever he is.
by RickD on
Nov 1, 2007 12:56 PM EDT
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Re: Lets do this
- Re-sign Schilling.
- Do Not re-sign Lowell
- Beckett
- Dice-K
- Schilling
- Lester
- Wake (Tavarez's option picked up,emergency starter)
for
Miggy Cabrera
2008 Off-season:
Sign Santana or Sabathia
Wake me
by Matzushocka on
Nov 1, 2007 2:04 PM EDT
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Re: Lets do this
by Realistic on
Nov 1, 2007 2:55 PM EDT
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Re: Lets do this
by Matzushocka on
Nov 1, 2007 3:11 PM EDT
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Sub Lester for Clay
I LOVE Miggy's bat, but I worry about his "bad body." He's barely a 3b now, and he'll be a 27 year old DH in a couple years.
by tommy.otm on
Nov 1, 2007 3:53 PM EDT
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Re: Sub Lester for Clay
by britsoxfan on
Nov 1, 2007 5:02 PM EDT
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Re: Lets do this
Bucholz is too good to be traded... Lester will be traded before Bucholz...
by superferret on
Nov 3, 2007 2:17 PM EDT
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Re: Schilling reflects on new-found Free Agency
There are too many teams, err.. the Dodgers and Angels, with top talent willing to deal for both.
My opinion - Miggy is going to LA. One team will get Miggy the other will sign A-Rod.
Clay Buchholz is most likely "not in trade talks" like Joba Chamberlain, which, probably in the long run, is smart.
Sox will not resign Schilling unless he is willing to take a Wakefield type contract, mainly bc he really is not worth the money any longer and also the Sox are LOADED with young arms that need innings. It would make much more sense to find someone who can fill in the rotation but can also work out of the pen, like Tavarez.
Again, I know I keep repeating myself, but A-Rod should not be an option for the Sox. The guy is cancer.
Look at A-Rod's stats v. Miggy C. over the past three years. Who would you rather have?
Everyone is trying to find a way to NOT pay A-Rod, now with Miggy being on the market, the Marlins will ask for whatever they want and they will probably get it.
There is a reason why everyone hates A-Rod. A potential Miggy trade just took someone off the market and probably made their lives much easier knowing they wont have to waste $30 million a year on a clubhouse cancer.
by SoxAcumen on
Nov 1, 2007 4:01 PM EDT
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Re: Schilling reflects on new-found Free Agency
by Matzushocka on
Nov 1, 2007 4:17 PM EDT
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Re: Schilling reflects on new-found Free Agency
If we are setting up a pool, I am going with the Mets. A-Rod wants the attention and David Wright is good guy and would probably move over to 2nd or the OF for A-Rod's ego.
by SoxAcumen on
Nov 1, 2007 6:29 PM EDT
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Re: Schilling reflects on new-found Free Agency
If you're arguing for Miggy C over A-Rod, I'm not sure stats are the most favorable way to compare them.
05
Cabrera: .323, .385, .561, 33 HR
A-Rod: .321, .421, .610, 48 HR
06
C: .339, .430, .568, 26 HR
A: .290, .392, .523, 35 HR
07
C: .320, .401, .565, 34 HR
A: .314, .422, .645, 54 HR
by 0157H7 on
Nov 1, 2007 4:26 PM EDT
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Re: Schilling reflects on new-found Free Agency
The Angels fans think Arte is going to make a move on Lowell as well, so you might have nailed that one. To think, if the Angels had just bucked up and paid Carlos Lee, they would not be looking for third baseman.
I don't know maybe I am being naive but I still think if the Sox give Lowell a "fair" offer, he stays. Chemistry and playing in a place where you could run for Mayor and probably win can be more important than maximum $$$.
Miggy does complicate things for both A-Rod and Lowell.
by SoxAcumen on
Nov 1, 2007 6:26 PM EDT
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Re: Schilling reflects on new-found Free Agency
Lowell may well stay, assuming Theo wants him (and not Miggy or A-Rod). I think he can definitely get more years from another team, but Lowell has reasons to remain in Boston. The fans have really taken to him, he hits better in Fenway than on the road, he seems to like the team.
by 0157H7 on
Nov 1, 2007 10:57 PM EDT
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Re: Schilling reflects on new-found Free Agency
by SoxAcumen on
Nov 2, 2007 5:10 AM EDT
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Re: Schilling reflects on new-found Free Agency
by Matzushocka on
Nov 1, 2007 4:17 PM EDT
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Re: Schilling reflects on new-found Free Agency
Let's not forget a few things: (some are obvious)
- He's not only 40, but an injured 40. (DL List in June 07, if you'll recall). What happens if he gets injured again in '08?
- His fastball is gone. 87 is not a fastball. That may do in the NL, but this is the AL East.
- Being a smart, finesse pitcher is good, but once teams have him figured out, his outings will be shorter, and more frequently so. That ultimately puts more pressure on the bullpen.
- Based on my #3 reasons, I wouldn't want the Sox to get to August or September 2008 and begin to look back on the season and wonder "What if we'd have let him go?" That creates an unnecessary animosity.
by BC14 on
Nov 1, 2007 6:32 PM EDT
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Re: Schilling reflects on new-found Free Agency
I believe in the philosophy that a ballplayer either gets better or he gets worse, but he never stays the same.
The question that I think should be on Theo's mind is: "Will Curt get better in 2008, or will he get worse?"
Based on the better/worse/never stay the same philosophy, I think the answer to that question is clear.
by BC14 on
Nov 1, 2007 6:35 PM EDT
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Re: Schilling reflects on new-found Free Agency
Mastuzaka (+), I'm a HUGE Dice-K guy, he is a tough SOB and he just needed time to figure out this game v. Japanese league. Trust me Dice will be HUGE in 08'. 18-19 wins
Lester (+) Again, I am loving this guy. If that game in Colorado showed Sox fans anything, it showed us that we do not need to waste money on FA Starters, he is a solid 2 or 3. 15-18 wins
Wake (-), lets be honest, he won 17 this year, thats not happening again. 13 wins hopefully
Schilling (-), he is trying to prove what he can do, not what he has done. I love the heart, but that might not be enough. probably 10 wins max., if he stays healthy.
by SoxAcumen on
Nov 2, 2007 5:18 AM EDT
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Re: Schilling reflects on new-found Free Agency
by BC14 on
Nov 2, 2007 1:48 PM EDT
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Re: Schilling reflects on new-found Free Agency
Does anyone else remember when we signed Schil? Curt expressed an interest... Theo went to his house for Thanksgiving... they worked out some numbers, and he came on board without the help or advice of an agent...
What is that, if it isn't a free agent?
by JoseBlow on
Nov 1, 2007 8:58 PM EDT
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Re: Schilling reflects on new-found Free Agency
by BC14 on
Nov 1, 2007 9:19 PM EDT
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Re: Schilling reflects on new-found Free Agency
by tommy.otm on
Nov 1, 2007 10:19 PM EDT
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How about the original Miggy?
by tommy.otm on
Nov 1, 2007 11:04 PM EDT
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Re: How about the original Miggy?
Miguel Tejada for John W. Henry (Peter Angelos designated for assignment).
In seriousness, I think they'd ask for something like Buchholz, Jed Lowrie, and a lower level prospect. Maybe substitute Lester, Youks, Pedroia or Bowden for Buchholz. They need to acquire a lot of talent to compete in the future.
by 0157H7 on
Nov 1, 2007 11:34 PM EDT
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Re: How about the original Miggy?
Good article on Tejada here. The reporter offers this in regard to his trade value.
Two baseball executives said the Orioles could probably land one or two high-ceiling prospects. However, they doubted that Tejada could fetch a top-of-the-rotation pitcher or a proven young bat.
I'm not exactly sure how to interpret the last sentence. Because in my book, Buchholz has a good shot at becoming a top-of-rotation type, and Ellsbury is already a proven young hitter. Or at least as proven as one can be after 90-odd at bats.
I wonder if we could get it done without either of them.
by tommy.otm on
Nov 2, 2007 2:09 AM EDT
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Re: How about the original Miggy?
Buchholz and Ellsbury are awesome, but one good month in the bigs does not make them proven to other GMs. They'd be the start of negotiations, but it depends on overall interest in Tejada whether other prospects could become the centerpiece. The Orioles could probably find a couple teams interested in trading for him.
by 0157H7 on
Nov 2, 2007 11:17 AM EDT
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Re: How about the original Miggy?
by Allen Chace on
Nov 2, 2007 11:56 AM EDT
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Re: How about the original Miggy?
by SoxAcumen on
Nov 2, 2007 12:40 PM EDT
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Re: How about the original Miggy?
;p
He's worth kicking the tires on, maybe he's a decent "buy low" kind of guy.
by tommy.otm on
Nov 2, 2007 12:44 PM EDT
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Re: How about the original Miggy?
;^)
by tommy.otm on
Nov 2, 2007 12:45 PM EDT
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Re: How about the original Miggy?
by Allen Chace on
Nov 2, 2007 2:16 PM EDT
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Re: How about the original Miggy?
Certainly, if we're competing against the LA teams prospect-wise, it wouldn't be a buy-low situation. But if one LA team ponies up for Arod, and the other puts together a package for Cabrera (I know, big "ifs", but that's my best guess for where they end up), I think we'd have as good a shot as anyone else to get him at a reasonable price.
Tejada's trade value has never been lower. He has flat-lined offensively over the last couple of years, he no longer has the range to play SS, and he's publicly declared that he's miserable playing for a terrible team. I imagine the O's would want to get out from under his contract, and from what I've read they've signaled that they're willing to eat some of his contract to move him. If he was almost traded for E. Santana and Aybar a year and a half ago (as the article above suggests), I think some variation on Crisp/Lowrie/Bowden could get it done.
Certainly, a shift to 3rd base would come with some hiccups. But stick him in Fenway with his buddies Manny and Papi, and he'd be reinvigorated. He'd hit a ton.
by tommy.otm on
Nov 2, 2007 3:25 PM EDT
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O-Miggy = Bad
by SoxDevil on
Nov 2, 2007 1:30 PM EDT
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Re: Schilling reflects on new-found Free Agency
by gnick55 on
Nov 2, 2007 12:30 AM EDT
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Re: Schilling reflects on new-found Free Agency
by SoxAcumen on
Nov 2, 2007 12:41 PM EDT
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TRADE THOUGHTS:
We have Beckett and Dice-K locked up for a few years, but after that where do we go? At this point, you can't count on Schilling or Wakefield in the rotation.
Having a rotation of Beckett, Dice-K, Lester, and Buchholz in '09 (skipping '08) sounds pretty good to me.
Bowden and Masterson could be moved in the right trade, but Starting Pitching is the currency of the game right now.
The one thing we know about Free Agent pitchers is that their cost nearly always outpaces their worth. And trades are a tricky proposition at best.
2) Do not trade Jacoby Ellsbury
This kid is part of our future in the OF. He's hit well at every level, runs the bases well, and fields well. The only thing he doesn't really do is hit for power. How many established CFers would you rather have right now? Maybe 1 of 10 guys? 1 of 10 (from 30 teams) is pretty damn good for a kid just starting out his career.
I'd rather not trade Pedroia, either.
In fact, trading for established super-stars is not good business, in general. The Sox don't need to generate more interest in the team (we're slavish already), so it's all about cost vs. performance in the short-term and long-term.
The Sox made a good, even deal with the Marlins for Beckett. The Marlins got future super-star Hanley Ramirez, a future #3 in Anibal Sanchez, and the Sox got an ace the Marlins couldn't afford. I'm not even including Lowell in the debate, because he was a throw-in. As someone previously noted, it's extremely difficult to project future performance as a GM. People thought Lowell's bat speed had slowed to the point where he'd be ineffective.
The fact is, the Sox stole Beckett in a fire-sale for two top prospects, two high-ceiling kids, and not one established player. It hurt, but it was a fair deal. Trading away the farm for one player is not a good idea, and teams are going to try to screw the Sox because of our wealth of prospects.
If we could secure Miguel Cabrera for Crisp, Bowden, Place, and Wagner, I'd make that deal. But trading more than one of Lester, Buchholz, or Ellsbury would be a horrific mistake for the Sox.
If anything, the Sox should consider trading away some of their established superstars for emerging superstars-to-be. Although our lineup would be significantly diminished with the loss of a player like Manny (my personal favorite, btw), think of the potential returns a few years down the line. We have the pitching to still contend, even with a diminished line up.
Take a look at what studs like Troy Tulowitzski and Ryan Braun have done this year. Or, if you're a bigger history buff, the Sox are only where they are today because someone named Dan Duquette traded an established pitching star, Closer Heathcliff Slocumb, to Seattle for two kids named Jason Varitek and Derek Lowe. Need I go on?
Although Colorado seems to have its heart set on trading Atkins to play Ian Stewart, how about trying to pry Stewart away? Or Brandon Wood from the Angels. There are plenty of kids we could target for Coco Crisp and one medium-high prospect.
Keep a steady course, Theo.
by SoxDevil on
Nov 2, 2007 1:23 PM EDT
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Re: Schilling reflects on new-found Free Agency
BTW, A-Rod = $350 million to start negotiations. Boras will not even talk to anyone who is unwilling to go $35mil/10 years.
Everyone still A-Rod is worth the money?
by SoxAcumen on
Nov 2, 2007 3:59 PM EDT
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That is insane
That may even be out of the range for the Angels.
Maybe the Mets could afford him, and then trade us Wright for Buchholz.
by tommy.otm on
Nov 2, 2007 4:17 PM EDT
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Re: That is insane
by gnick55 on
Nov 2, 2007 5:53 PM EDT
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Re: Schilling reflects on new-found Free Agency
Sox can print money in Fenway if they had Florida Marlins/Tampa Bay Devil Rays payroll and AA skill team)
by superferret on
Nov 3, 2007 2:30 PM EDT
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Re: Schilling reflects on new-found Free Agency
by SoxAcumen on
Nov 4, 2007 2:25 AM EDT
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Re: Schilling reflects on new-found Free Agency
As for who can pay him that, Sox, Yanks, W. Sox, Cubs, both LA teams, maybe the Mariners, Mets, possibly the Phillies or Braves.
Mike Lowell cannot get resigned fast enough.
by SoxAcumen on
Nov 2, 2007 7:07 PM EDT
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Re: Schilling reflects on new-found Free Agency
The only teams that can afford Boras's extortion attempts are the Red Sox, the Cubs, if they get to control of their TV rights or a Cable network in place when they are sold, the Yankees and the Mets. All of them can take a couple years in the red to handle any huge contract by A-Rod.
What Boras doesn't understand, is that there are some incompetents in baseball, but not at the top clubs, unless the Dodgers are included in this. I think Tom Hicks finally learned some sense, given there hasn't been any insane A-Rod contracts since his signing.
by superferret on
Nov 3, 2007 4:57 PM EDT
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Re: Schilling reflects on new-found Free Agency
Phillies and the Braves could afford A-Rod as well, but I doubt either would want to mortgage their properties for him.
White Sox definately can pay him if they wanted, there is a lot of money in Chicago sports franchises.
by SoxAcumen on
Nov 4, 2007 2:29 AM EDT
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Re: Schilling reflects on new-found Free Agency
I agree the market is big, but the Angels don't have the revenue streams to get the maximum from the market unlike the Yankees with YES and the Red Sox with NESN. Angels have a good chance outdrawing the Dodgers, and Morteno is a better businessman with a much more money coming in from his advertising business than McCourt loan juggling and millions a year he is just paying on interest, (Morteno also doesn't have much debt connected to the Angels) I do think A-Rod wants to stay in the AL, and Anaheim Stadium is a neutral park, in which A-Rod hit two massive home runs there this year in a game. However, I don't think Morteno will comply with Boras's extortion demands, and not 10/350
The Phillies don't have a space for A-Rod at this moment, and I don't see the Braves breaking the bank for him. The team that is badly run, erratic and could do the deal to help with a stadium push are the Marlins.
The White Sox seemed to be dumping contracts and over extended themselves with the Thome and Korneko deals in 2006. They aren't the Cubs in a sense of market share and broadcasting. They also need a serious makeover right now, given both their hitting and pitching were awful in 2007. However allegedly they do get along well with Boras.
I still think when everyone calms down, like after Theo quit in 2005, A-Rod will sign with the Yankees again after some negotiating, probably a five year deal for 25 mil a year. I just don't see any other team beating to Boras's front door to make a huge deal, and I think the Angels are more interested in a DH who is cheaper like perhaps Bonds.
by superferret on
Nov 4, 2007 1:53 PM EST
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Re: Schilling reflects on new-found Free Agency
I think Scott Boras may have misread the market. Yes baseball revenue is soaring, yes FA salaries went high last year (Soriano, Carlos Lee). But A-Rod is looking at so much money for so many years that even the deep-pocketed teams (Red Sox, Angels, the Chicago and NY clubs) might balk at the cost.
To get the most value from A-Rod, a team needs empty seats in the ballpark and a television station that needs the higher ratings he might bring. He needs to fit into their long-term plans to compete, while not hampering their ability to retain talent / sign other FA components.
I'm not sure this perfect team exists. The closest match is the Orioles, who have a TV station and a ballpark with lots of empty seats. But signing him would likely hamstring their payroll, and keep them from resigning Bedard; plus they'd still need to ditch most of their current roster and rebuild their farm system. What's the point of getting a $30 million free agent if you can't compete for the first two or three years of his contract?
by 0157H7 on
Nov 4, 2007 11:32 PM EST
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