i don't know what to think. my brain is getting fried from all this. someone please tell me why we now seem to be getting a gazillion outfielders by trading one of our gazillion pitchers...?
i like wily a lot, but is he here to stay or part of a bigger plan?

i don't know enough about this stuff to figure it out. help me out, lads!

Arroyo settled for a promise instead of a no trade clause.  And we wonder why players have no loyalty.

It makes me sad to see Arroyo go, but this might be the best thing for his career--he may not have gotten many starts with the Sox this year.  From our perspective, we have traded a pitcher who basically gave league-average production for someone with 40 HR/yr potential, and maybe could be the RF of the future since Trot's contract is up after this season.  The only weird thing is that we do now have a glut of OFs, but after 18 days, Stern can go down to AAA and Mohr and Pena can be on the bench.  Pena has played CF, but was perhaps a liability there; however I don't think he'll be there very much, and if Coco has to be on the DL, Stern can come back up.

That is why Damon signs with the highest bidder.  Why Givens signs with God-awful Tennessee, why Willie jumps to Cleveland (although he was released) and why Vinatieri will go to the highest bidder.  It is professional sports and professional sports is a business.  Arroyo took a discount, with the assumption that we would not trade him.  Well, that was a dumb assumption.  If trading him or anyone else makes the team better (or the organization believes it makes the team better), then anybody can get traded...whether they are a nice guy or give the team a discount...(see Wayne Gretzky and Shaquille O'Neal).

Pena as a fourth outfielder and power off the bench is huge. Mohr might fit fine as a piece, but he doesn't have near the raw talent.

But will this again bring up the occasions on which Theo's front office seemed to reneg on a deal, or at least be dishonest?  It's not worst offense in the world, but it is discouraging.

Good grief - Cabrera? Just think how he might flourish under Papi's wing.

I'm surprised, but not surprised, if that makes sense.

I think this is the right move for the Sox, as much as they look like the bad guy over the contract issue. They moved Bronson when his stock was highest (much like Hanley), and got a player who's a potential stud.

Like Roto says:

"It's not often a team can pick up a potential 40-homer guy for a pitcher it plans on using in middle relief."

I agree. Arroyo has been very hittable recently, and I didn't expect him to be very solid this year either.

On the upside, Pena could be good, and he could be a bust. The good news is, he's 24. Arroyo not be grizzled veteran, but he'll start the 2007 at 30 years old. I just don't think there was that much cieling left for him, even if he was in the rotation this year.

of another deal.  pena needs to play.  Whether it is in the outfield or at first base.  I believe someone else is gonna get moved soon.

Putting aside the merits of the trade, I too am troubled by Arroyo signing a "hometown discount," then being traded before he made a single regular season pitch.  It makes feel like no one should be booing Damon* unless they're prepared to boo the entire Sox organization.

That being said, I wonder how Arroyo feels about the trade, all things considered.  I know he wanted to stay with the Sox, but if given the choice between being a starter with another club or a long reliever with the Sox for this year (and possibly for good -- no more Wells in 2007, but perhaps Lester, plus whoever's in the FA market), would he rather be a starter elsewhere?

* I'm referring to booing him as a "traitor" -- of course it's ok to boo him because he's a Yankee.

Does he go by "Wily Pena" or "Wily Mo Pena"? In other words, will RemDawg use both of his first two names when he says, "Bases loaded, and here comes Wily [Mo] to the plate to bat for Trot Nixon..."?

I'm not worried about the outfield in 2006. I'm worried about our 2nd and 3rd basemen, and our shortstop. There are a whole lot of fingers crossed over those key three positions.

I also can envision Tavares giving up a clutch gopher ball in the playoffs.

I have almost no sentiment in my body when it comes to professional sports, but... the Sox did wrong by Arroyo.  Arroyo was foolish to not get a no-trade clause to go with his discount price, but this is a poor way to spend one's organizational credibility.

I think that this a a precurser to a larger trade that might involve trot nixon. I like the trade. I am sick of Arroyo and his "i am going to put singing first then baseball" mentality. This is a perfet situation for us too. He is going to the Reds, who and in the NL and suck. This can't really come back to bite us in the ass. Can you imagine the line up of Papi, Manny, Pena? that is scary.

on the idea of Trot being moved.

I really think they platoon this year, and Trot moves to 1B next year and finishes his career at 1B. Pena takes over in RF. As for Trot at 1B, He'll play the position nicely, is left-handed, and that'll allow Youk to move back to 3B where he'll have more value (once we move Lowell, who I really don't think has much time with the Red Sox in his future.

One of the main things the Sox lack in the minors is a young OF that can mash.  Wily Mo COULD be an impact bat, and keep in mind that he was rushed to the bigs, and should have had more "seasoning" where he could learn the value of a walk and plate discipline.  Bronson got the contract he did pretty much based on what he would do as a starter, but he wasn't going to be in that role this year, and there aren't a lot of long relievers/spot starters w/ multi million dollar contracts.  I'm sure Bronson would prefer starting, and he will be a front of the rotation guy for the Reds.

It seems like Wily Mo has a ton more trade value than either Lowell or Trot. I love Trot, and I think all of baseball respects him. But he's still a question mark after all the health issues. And he costs a lot more than Wily Mo.

I really hope Arroyo is happy to start in Cincy, but that city is not like Boston or the West Coast. This feels terribly unfair to him.

If the Reds now play Hatteberg every day over Freel, I truly pity Bronson.

I'm in awe that Sox fans are even debating the merits of this trade.  While Arroyo was a nice asset for our team as a swing man out of the pen, I think we got tremendous value in return for him in Wily Mo.  This gives us another power bat in our lineup that should play a major role in our lineup for many years to come.

As for the talk of the no trade clause, I think that is just ridiculous.  The facts are, he did not have a no trade clause in his contract.  This is a business where no handshake promises should ever be valued for more than just a handshake.  Not to mention, last time I checked, the contract that Bronson signed seemed to be a pretty good value for a guy with his stats and background.  How exactly did this organization slight him anyways?

"Wily Mo Pena just took batting practice. He hit some absolute bombs -- one off the scoreboard in left center, one over the scoreboard, and a smattering onto the field behind the left-field wall.

He's going to get an at-bat or two today, Terry Francona said."

A lot of people have been talking about his lack of patience, but that might not be the problem behind his strikeouts.

Think Bellhorn, he didn't have any trouble seeing pitches (over 4 per at bat), but he did K a lot. Pena also sees a lot of pitches (3.8 PPA) last season, but doesnt walk as much. That leads me to believe he's getting suckered somehow in his swing, or swinging for the fence every time, something the Reds probably didn't discourage. That P/PA would be 5th highest on the team last year, beating out Mueller, Renteria, Damon, and others. My guess is that it's not like he's just swinging away on every pitch.

Another number that jumped out at me was his HR/F. Last year, it was .28, meaning, 28% of his fly balls were homeruns. That was 11th highest in MLB. League average is about 11%.

Just to give you an idea, Pena would tie for the lead on our team with that number, with Manny Ramirez.

For everyone who says he wasn't good enough to be a starter, and he wasn't worth the money to be a long relief man:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2295966

we gave Mota, who had a worse ERA(4.70), and pitched fewer innings(67 to 205.1) 3 mil for 1 year before we trade him.  

Now I've heard everything...  Someone just posted that Bronson should have warranted a larger contract because of his versatility and post-season experience?  I'm guessing that guy is probably ready to vote Dennis Lamp in to the Hall of Fame as well...  Did you really justify your position by citing Bronson's post-season experience?  I guess the Sox would be hard pressed to find another swingman with an over 7.00 post season era...

What has Bronson really accomplished in his stint in Boston?  We picked him up off the scrap heap and turned him into a serviceable pitcher.  He managed to win 24 games over 2 years with the best offense in baseball supporting his over 4.00 era.   If nothing else, he should be thankful to the Sox for that.  At 30 years old, one could argue that his stats could be cycling down.  Instead of risking that downside, Theo was able to spin him for a young, power-hitting OF.  Instead of applauding Theo for a job well done, you want to linger with the 2004 memories and wonder what might have been.  If you really want to relive that story, why not visit the Celtics message board???

I think you're overestimating the "market" effect.

Because next year is such a huge starting pitching market, Arroyo will have less value. Market value also dramatically shifts each year.

I also don't think that the Red Sox will shell out that much more money in the near future for starting pitching. After this year, Papelbon, Lester, and Beckett are locks for the rotation. Those three combined won't make 7 million.

Arroyo could've been great this year, and he could've been awful. We'll never know.

The bottom line here is that it really doesnt have as much to do with money as its being made out to be, especially with Boston's payroll. Boston needed to trim their roster, and wanted to do so by addressing another area, potentially for several years. That's really all there is to it.

I just love posters that use the stats that support their argument, and completely ignore the stats that negate them.  Truly classic!  I guess that 7.00 playoff era and declining strikeout rate this past season just don't signify anything.  Do you happen to know what his career era is against the Yankees?  Since it doesn't support your argument, I have an idea, let's just ignore it...  Also, did you really try to compare Arroyo to Beckett?  Please tell me that you realized how silly that comparison was and decided to just drop it.

I'm not saying that Bronson was not a good pitcher.  I think he had a nice stint here in Boston and he obviously had the most trade value of the 3 pitchers (Wells, Clement and Bronson) we have been trying to move this off-season.  Theo recognized this fact, and adjusted accordingly.  I'm sure he would have preferred to do a Wells for Pena swap, but why on earth would the Reds do that deal?  The fact is, we have 2 young kids (Papelbon and Lester) that are pushing for rotation spots in the near future, Arroyo was expendable.