OT: Yanks v. Sox, Game 2 of 3, on Fox. (Yay...)

by Allen Chace on Jun 2, 2007 11:09 AM EDT in Open Thread

I have to get to work, so this is early, and no lineups yet.

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Are the Sox about to slide??

I have been watching the Sox for well over 40 years, and I am beginning to see trouble. The manager seems to be staying with "off" pitchers much too long and seems to be giving up games instead of yanking a failing starter. Why??

Also at least 3 players are not htting to the level needed to win a championship (Lugo, Crisp, and especially Drew). I predict that today is the critical day in the entire season because unless they Sox win big today, their slide will start as has happened so often. I just can't figure for sure if the poor performances in the last week or so are due to poor managing or just not enough talent to maintain the momentum??

by NG on Jun 2, 2007 2:18 PM EDT reply actions

Re: Are the Sox about to slide??

Ah yes. They're leading the AL East by 10 games, but of course the slide is just around the corner.

Sounds more like Torre talking about the Yanks. "Sure we're 6 games below .500, but everything's just about to turn around." 2 game winning streak and what not.

by sdkramer.otm on Jun 2, 2007 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions

Re: Are the Sox about to slide??

I respectfully disagree that today is "critical day." While I love to beat the MFY, I don't care where the Sox gain their games in the standings. After the series in the Bronx, Boston was 9.5 games up. Now they are 12.5 games ahead of the MFY. Even if the Sox get swept (and I don't think they will), they Yanks will be 10.5 games out.

Furthermore, if the Sox only play 1-game over .500--going 55-54 the rest of the way--they'll win 91 games. The MFY would have to go 68-42 just to tie. I don't see the Sox being that bad the rest of the way, nor do I see New York playing .620+ ball for the rest of the season.

Francona is the best manager the Sox have had in my lifetime and I've been watching baseball almost as long as you have. 162 games is a long season. While Wake had nothing last night, the Sox didn't burn a single "frontline" reliever--they used Snyder, Romero, Pineiro, and J-Lo (while the MFY used Bruney, Proctor, Villone, Farmsworth, and Rivera to hold a 6-run lead). The Yanks routinely burn their pen every year because Torre manages every game like it's a playoff game. Tito doesn't, which is smart.

Sure, Lugo, Crisp, and Drew have been bad at the plate. Who else is available? I know I don't want to see Wily Blo Pena in the OF every day. As long as the Sox don't have any major injuries, I don't see the MFY overtaking them. It's best to stay calm. Lester will be up soon, and Hatchet Face will go back in the pen which will give Tito a long-reliever to use in games like last night.

I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.

by Drugs Delaney on Jun 2, 2007 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions

Re: Are the Sox about to slide??

While Wake had nothing last night, the Sox didn't burn a single "frontline" reliever--they used Snyder, Romero, Pineiro, and J-Lo (while the MFY used Bruney, Proctor, Villone, Farmsworth, and Rivera to hold a 6-run lead). The Yanks routinely burn their pen every year because Torre manages every game like it's a playoff game. Tito doesn't, which is smart.

So you agree that Francona lets these games "go" when a starter does not "Have" it that night. Maybe that is smart, but it bothers me from a momentum point of view, especially with the MFY as you say. Why let a shaky starter stay in until the games is beyond reach?? That does not seem to be good managing to me, but I don't really know that much about player stamina and depth of rosters!

by NG on Jun 2, 2007 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions

Re: Are the Sox about to slide??

I didn't say Tito lets games go. But I do think he knows how to handle a pitching staff. In my opinion, Francona is one of the better managers in baseball.

Let's look at Friday's game:

Wake looked good in the first and shaky in the second, when he gave up 3 runs. You're not going to pull a starter in the second inning for giving up three runs. The Sox score two in the bottom of the second. Wake set the MFY down in order in the third, and Boston tied in the bottom of the inning.

The wheels fell off in the fourth, as Wake allowed the first three hitters to reach: a single, a walk, and a HBP. By this time Snyder was warming. Three runs scored very quickly--on a wild pitch, a single, and a passed ball (two at-bats). Wake got Damon. Snyder probably was ready to face Jeter. But Wake had retired both Jeter and Matsui twice. Tito decided to see if Wake could get out of the inning. He got Jeter, walked Matsui, and was pulled for Snyder who is the closest reliever the Sox have to a long-man. Snyder hit A-Rod, loading the bases. Posada doubled in two more runs to make it 9-3 at the time.

I don't see what Francona did wrong. Both Jeter and Matsui have better numbers against Snyder than Wakefield. Either of those hitters would have been the first batter to face Snyder once he was warmed up.

You can't have pitchers warming every inning. Well you can, if you want to burn them out (Torre does that some times). Over 162 games a team will have "off" nights. The Sox were "off" Friday. Wake sucked and Boston's hitters let a very shaky Chien-Ming Wang off the hook a number of times.

Too many fans have knee-jerk reactions regarding managerial decisions. You can yank a pitcher at the first sign of trouble (a la Jimy Williams, a truly horrible manager), in which case you'll likely burn out your pen by August or September (as Jimy always did). Or, you can let a pitcher try to get out of trouble. Wakefield is a veteran starter. Tito didn't do anything wrong Friday. You'd like to get at least 4 innings out of a starter, even one that is struggling.

Don't overreact just because the Sox were playing the MFY. It's just one game out of 162, and New York is 13.5 games out now.

I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.

by Drugs Delaney on Jun 3, 2007 1:44 AM EDT up reply actions

Lineup

Schilling
5-2, 3.68

Sox

Lugo SS (.224)
Pedroia 2B (.323)
Ortiz DH (.324)
Ramirez LF (.283)
Youkilis 1B (.353)
Lowell 3B (.328)
Varitek C (.277)
Pena RF (.230)
Crisp CF (.229)

Mussina
2-3, 5.86

Yanks

Abreu RF (.234)
Jeter SS (.340)
Matsui LF (.281)
Rodriguez 3B (.293)
Posada DH (.358)
Cano 2B (.269)
Cabrera CF (.234)
Mientkiewicz 1B (.215)
Nieves C (.103)

by sdkramer.otm on Jun 2, 2007 3:47 PM EDT reply actions

Re: Lineup

Wow, Abreu leading off. Kudos to Torre!

I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.

by Drugs Delaney on Jun 2, 2007 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions

Does anybody know

if Proctor got a suspension for last night?

by sdkramer.otm on Jun 2, 2007 3:56 PM EDT reply actions

Re: Does anybody know

I haven't heard anything, so I guess the answer is no.

I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.

by Drugs Delaney on Jun 2, 2007 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions

Re: Does anybody know

Yeah they just said he's not even going to be fined. I think that's bull. You don't hit a guy in the head, and there's no way to throw a legit pitch that's that far out of the strike zone.

by sdkramer.otm on Jun 2, 2007 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions

Re: Does anybody know

Nothing happened to Fat Roger when he tried to kill Piazza either.

I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.

by Drugs Delaney on Jun 2, 2007 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions

Top of the 1st

Abreu lines one to Manny. 1 out.

by sdkramer.otm on Jun 2, 2007 3:59 PM EDT reply actions

Re: Top of the 1st

Jeter with a wall ball for a double.

by sdkramer.otm on Jun 2, 2007 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions

Re: Top of the 1st

Matsui with a pop up to Wily Mo. 2 down.

by sdkramer.otm on Jun 2, 2007 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions

Re: Top of the 1st

Rodriguez goes down swinging. First K of the game for Shilling. 1 man left on base.

by sdkramer.otm on Jun 2, 2007 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions

It's a bit early but

Schilling looks good. I was a little worried, but now it seems unjustified.

by sdkramer.otm on Jun 2, 2007 4:06 PM EDT reply actions

Bottom of the 1st

Lugo flies out to CF. 1 down.

by sdkramer.otm on Jun 2, 2007 4:08 PM EDT reply actions

Oh come on

Mussina gets a "talking to" from the ump about throwing inside which even I think is bullshit. He was pushing him back to try and get the far corner lit up.

by sdkramer.otm on Jun 2, 2007 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions

Re: Bottom of the 1st

Pedroia with a base hit.

by sdkramer.otm on Jun 2, 2007 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions

Re: OT:

Haha... fantastic. The hp umpire has a word with Mussina about an inside breaking ball.

Bottom 9th B:1 S:0 O:0 With Bill Mueller batting, Dave Roberts steals (1) 2nd base.

by britsoxfan on Jun 2, 2007 4:12 PM EDT reply actions

Re: OT:

They must have said something about all the hit players last night.

by sdkramer.otm on Jun 2, 2007 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions

Re: OT:

Yeah, but the ump has to know Pussina wasn't trying to hit Dusty with a curve ball.

I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.

by Drugs Delaney on Jun 2, 2007 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions

Re: OT:

Dustin is good.

Bottom 9th B:1 S:0 O:0 With Bill Mueller batting, Dave Roberts steals (1) 2nd base.

by britsoxfan on Jun 2, 2007 4:13 PM EDT reply actions

Re: OT:

12 games streak.

by sdkramer.otm on Jun 2, 2007 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions

When did Ortiz

become a singles hitter?

by sdkramer.otm on Jun 2, 2007 4:14 PM EDT reply actions

Re: OT:

I do hope that Moose isn't off his game after that word from the ump

Bottom 9th B:1 S:0 O:0 With Bill Mueller batting, Dave Roberts steals (1) 2nd base.

by britsoxfan on Jun 2, 2007 4:14 PM EDT reply actions

Re: OT:

oh Manny... that packet of seeds still in his pocket.

Bottom 9th B:1 S:0 O:0 With Bill Mueller batting, Dave Roberts steals (1) 2nd base.

by britsoxfan on Jun 2, 2007 4:15 PM EDT reply actions

Jeter

just about lost that one.

by sdkramer.otm on Jun 2, 2007 4:16 PM EDT reply actions

By the way,

Dustin is a number two hitter, in my opinion. Hope he gets some more opportunities there.

Bottom 9th B:1 S:0 O:0 With Bill Mueller batting, Dave Roberts steals (1) 2nd base.

by britsoxfan on Jun 2, 2007 4:16 PM EDT reply actions

Agreed

I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.

by Drugs Delaney on Jun 2, 2007 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions

Re: Agreed

Only thing is, Youk is shaping up to be more of number five. So who should lead off? Lugo's probably still the best option. Think Francona's got it right today.

Bottom 9th B:1 S:0 O:0 With Bill Mueller batting, Dave Roberts steals (1) 2nd base.

by britsoxfan on Jun 2, 2007 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions

That shot of the scoreboard

gave me a warm feeling inside

Bottom 9th B:1 S:0 O:0 With Bill Mueller batting, Dave Roberts steals (1) 2nd base.

by britsoxfan on Jun 2, 2007 4:21 PM EDT reply actions

Cabrera

homers just barely on the fair side of the Pesky Polse.

by sdkramer.otm on Jun 2, 2007 4:22 PM EDT reply actions

Re: OT:

He just doesn't have the zip on that four-seamer this year

Bottom 9th B:1 S:0 O:0 With Bill Mueller batting, Dave Roberts steals (1) 2nd base.

by britsoxfan on Jun 2, 2007 4:23 PM EDT reply actions

Ah well,

Nieves is up next.

Bottom 9th B:1 S:0 O:0 With Bill Mueller batting, Dave Roberts steals (1) 2nd base.

by britsoxfan on Jun 2, 2007 4:24 PM EDT reply actions

Re: Ah well,

Soothing, watching him take one pitch to end the inning

Bottom 9th B:1 S:0 O:0 With Bill Mueller batting, Dave Roberts steals (1) 2nd base.

by britsoxfan on Jun 2, 2007 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions

C'mon Mike

Rip one over the Monster

Bottom 9th B:1 S:0 O:0 With Bill Mueller batting, Dave Roberts steals (1) 2nd base.

by britsoxfan on Jun 2, 2007 4:29 PM EDT reply actions

Matsui gets caught lookin.

2Ks for Schilling.

by sdkramer.otm on Jun 2, 2007 4:39 PM EDT reply actions

Holy Cow

Wily Mo doubles.

by sdkramer.otm on Jun 2, 2007 4:43 PM EDT reply actions

Coco with a sac bunt

Wily Mo at 3B

by sdkramer.otm on Jun 2, 2007 4:44 PM EDT reply actions

groundout

to take the tying run.

by sdkramer.otm on Jun 2, 2007 4:45 PM EDT reply actions

Damn it

They just cut into the game with weather.

by sdkramer.otm on Jun 2, 2007 4:56 PM EDT reply actions

After 4 innings

Schilling at 57 pitches.

by sdkramer.otm on Jun 2, 2007 5:00 PM EDT reply actions

We'll have to thank Melky

for the bobble.

by sdkramer.otm on Jun 2, 2007 5:05 PM EDT reply actions

Damn it

out comes the canvass. With runners at 2 and 3.

by sdkramer.otm on Jun 2, 2007 5:06 PM EDT reply actions

On the bright side

Mussina deals very poorly with delays and disruptions. He will not enjoy coming back out with runners on 2 and 3 and no outs.

Bottom 9th B:1 S:0 O:0 With Bill Mueller batting, Dave Roberts steals (1) 2nd base.

by britsoxfan on Jun 2, 2007 5:06 PM EDT reply actions

Re: On the bright side

Hopefully, this won't be a long delay.

I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.

by Drugs Delaney on Jun 2, 2007 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions

Re: On the bright side

Just long enough to send the Moose inside a spiral of self-doubt and fear.

Bottom 9th B:1 S:0 O:0 With Bill Mueller batting, Dave Roberts steals (1) 2nd base.

by britsoxfan on Jun 2, 2007 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions

I have no problem with that

Especially since the MFY managed to use mosy of their pen trying to protect a 6-run lead last night.

I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.

by Drugs Delaney on Jun 2, 2007 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions

Tarp is off ...

Boston.com says 20 or so minutes 'til game time.

I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.

by Drugs Delaney on Jun 2, 2007 5:25 PM EDT reply actions

Greek

God

Bottom 9th B:1 S:0 O:0 With Bill Mueller batting, Dave Roberts steals (1) 2nd base.

by britsoxfan on Jun 2, 2007 5:38 PM EDT reply actions

2-1

Still loaded

Bottom 9th B:1 S:0 O:0 With Bill Mueller batting, Dave Roberts steals (1) 2nd base.

by britsoxfan on Jun 2, 2007 5:40 PM EDT reply actions

Clemens scratched from his start

Delightful news!

Bottom 9th B:1 S:0 O:0 With Bill Mueller batting, Dave Roberts steals (1) 2nd base.

by britsoxfan on Jun 2, 2007 5:42 PM EDT reply actions

Re: Clemens scratched from his start

Oh yeah, he's looking worth EVERY PENNY they spent. Hahaha.

by sdkramer.otm on Jun 2, 2007 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions

Re: Clemens scratched from his start

He's 150-years old. What did they expect?

I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.

by Drugs Delaney on Jun 2, 2007 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions

Re: Clemens scratched from his start

a saviour...that or a scapegoat.

by sdkramer.otm on Jun 2, 2007 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions

To be honest

Fat Roger doesn't scare me, and he won't help the MFY. They've basically ponied up $18.5 million for 16 or so starts by Jaret Wright. Nice move ...

I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.

by Drugs Delaney on Jun 2, 2007 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions

Good play by Cano

Lowell knocked the crap out of him for a tiny dude.

by sdkramer.otm on Jun 2, 2007 5:43 PM EDT reply actions

Shut up you Fox asshats

You cannot mention what Lowell did in the same breath as ARod's elbow into Dustin's groin.

Bottom 9th B:1 S:0 O:0 With Bill Mueller batting, Dave Roberts steals (1) 2nd base.

by britsoxfan on Jun 2, 2007 5:43 PM EDT reply actions

Re: Shut up you Fox asshats

Ah, the difference is acknowledged, thank god.

Bottom 9th B:1 S:0 O:0 With Bill Mueller batting, Dave Roberts steals (1) 2nd base.

by britsoxfan on Jun 2, 2007 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions

Re: Shut up you Fox asshats

What is the difference? I keep getting interrupted with weather coverage.

by sdkramer.otm on Jun 2, 2007 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions

Pedroia

goes 2/3.

by sdkramer.otm on Jun 2, 2007 6:00 PM EDT reply actions

I can't believe

They're walking Manny to get to the hot hitter?

by sdkramer.otm on Jun 2, 2007 6:03 PM EDT reply actions

Re: I can't believe

GO YOUUUUUUUUUUK!

by sdkramer.otm on Jun 2, 2007 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions

Damn it

So close

by sdkramer.otm on Jun 2, 2007 6:05 PM EDT reply actions

J. Lo

warming.

by sdkramer.otm on Jun 2, 2007 6:09 PM EDT reply actions

Pineiro too

I'd prefer Lopez.

by sdkramer.otm on Jun 2, 2007 6:13 PM EDT reply actions

Damn it

Shilling's out.

by sdkramer.otm on Jun 2, 2007 6:15 PM EDT reply actions

Posada

looks like such a weasel.

by sdkramer.otm on Jun 2, 2007 6:19 PM EDT reply actions

Nieves

couldn't hit water if he fell out of a boat.

by sdkramer.otm on Jun 2, 2007 6:22 PM EDT reply actions

Re: Nieves

thanks for the DP ball man.

by sdkramer.otm on Jun 2, 2007 6:24 PM EDT up reply actions

Mike Lowell

with the homer. Just over the Green Monster. Number 11 for the man who took a ball to the arm last night. Proctor's warming. Wonder if he's going to try some of that crap again tonight?

by sdkramer.otm on Jun 2, 2007 6:29 PM EDT reply actions

'Tek

homers too. Could we have another set of 4 coming like back in April? Torre headed to the mound. I think Mussina's out.

by sdkramer.otm on Jun 2, 2007 6:30 PM EDT reply actions

Re: 'Tek

He crushed that pitch!

I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.

by Drugs Delaney on Jun 2, 2007 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions

4 in a row

Well not with Wily Mo and Coco batting.

by sdkramer.otm on Jun 2, 2007 6:33 PM EDT reply actions

Can we just lose Pena

He really sucks.

I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.

by Drugs Delaney on Jun 2, 2007 6:40 PM EDT up reply actions

Re: Can we just lose Pena

Sure. Just don't give him a return ticket from the game in Oakland.

by sdkramer.otm on Jun 2, 2007 6:56 PM EDT up reply actions

I judged Coco too soon.

Coco with a base hit. His first

by sdkramer.otm on Jun 2, 2007 6:35 PM EDT reply actions

It's funny

to watch Proctor try to not pitch anything inside.

by sdkramer.otm on Jun 2, 2007 6:36 PM EDT reply actions

Coco steals 2b

1 out. Lugo batting.

by sdkramer.otm on Jun 2, 2007 6:37 PM EDT reply actions

Come on Dustin

Lets lead this again.

by sdkramer.otm on Jun 2, 2007 6:38 PM EDT reply actions

How many times

do we have to hear the Papelbon, Pineiro story?

by sdkramer.otm on Jun 2, 2007 6:48 PM EDT reply actions

I seriously thought

Wily Mo was going to run into Coco for a minute. It's probably bad that I think he's that big of a screw up.

by sdkramer.otm on Jun 2, 2007 7:00 PM EDT reply actions

I coulda sworn that was out of there.

Yanks got lucky.

by sdkramer.otm on Jun 2, 2007 7:04 PM EDT reply actions

Manny gets another walk

I don't understand why they're doing this.

by sdkramer.otm on Jun 2, 2007 7:05 PM EDT reply actions

Bruney is finally warming

They walked Youk. Damn it. I hope he gets a 5th at bat. I'd hate for his streak to be broken on account of 2 walks.

by sdkramer.otm on Jun 2, 2007 7:08 PM EDT reply actions

Bases loaded

no outs. Lowell up.

by sdkramer.otm on Jun 2, 2007 7:09 PM EDT reply actions

1 out

Lowell nailed Mientkiewicz in the head. What a shitty throw to 1st. I'm sure Pinstripe Alley is blaming Lowell.

by sdkramer.otm on Jun 2, 2007 7:13 PM EDT reply actions

Re: OT: Yanks v. Sox, Game 2 of 3, on Fox. (Yay...

Poor Doug. He looks like hell. Phelps in for Mientkiewicz.

by sdkramer.otm on Jun 2, 2007 7:17 PM EDT reply actions

Wily just don't swing

You've got a better shot of making it.

by sdkramer.otm on Jun 2, 2007 7:18 PM EDT reply actions

I can't believe they're still pitching Proctor

I mean I know it's Wily Mo, but still...

by sdkramer.otm on Jun 2, 2007 7:19 PM EDT reply actions

Bases loaded on an error

Jeter gets an error.

by sdkramer.otm on Jun 2, 2007 7:20 PM EDT reply actions

Why are they still pitching Proctor?

Coco with the RBI single 8-6 Good guys. :)

by sdkramer.otm on Jun 2, 2007 7:22 PM EDT reply actions

Great MFY Defense led to these runs

Abreu misplays Papi's "double." Cano makes a bad throw to Jeter, and Cap'n Tange makes a worse throw to first. Tange again, botting Wily Mo's grounder right at him. And, A-Rod not covering third on Coco's pop fly single. they would have had Tek easily at third if Slappy was anywhere near the bag.

I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.

by Drugs Delaney on Jun 2, 2007 7:25 PM EDT reply actions