A.J. Burnett Gone To Pittsburgh, So Why Not John Lackey?
The Yankees are apparently very close to sending A.J. Burnett to the Pittsburgh Pirates, picking up $13 million in albatross contract relief and a pair of presently unnamed prospects.
Two years ago, the Red Sox signed their own A.J. Burnett in John Lackey. The Yankees had set the market for declining pitchers with ERAs in the mid-to-high 3s, and the Sox--anticipating a year with a dominant rotation of Beckett, Lester, Lackey, Buchholz, and Daisuke took the plunge.
Unfortunately, Lackey took after Burnett in performance just as he had in free agency. A disappointing debut, followed by a disaster sophomore year. Frankly, that he's now out for all of 2012 might mean we win as far as third-year performance is concerned.
So, if the Yankees can wipe their hands of Burnett for $20 million, can the Red Sox do the same with John Lackey? Should they? Let's take a look after the jump.
When it comes to John Lackey, it's hard to look at things objectively. Before he pitched an inning, he had already rubbed many Red Sox fans the wrong way with his demeanor during his time with the Angels. Of course, so much is forgiven when a former rival performs for your team, but Lackey didn't really do that. Getting off to a bad start, Lackey's reputation was too far gone for a late-season resurgence to buy him much more than a second chance in 2011.
He showed up for spring training last year in much better shape, and threw 21 solid innings. Things were looking up! Then came April 2, and nine runs in under four innings. Aside from a brief stint around July and August, that was pretty much the story of his season. With each appearance, each game lost by the third inning, we Sox fans grew more and more aggravated. Taking $18 million and not performing is one thing, but stealing every fifth game from us? That's another entirely.
Eventually--mercifully--the season ended for both Lackey and Boston. Then came the news that not only would Lackey need Tommy John Surgery, but that the team had known he would earlier in the year. An act that would usually earn a pitcher credit with the fans, however, only served to hurt Lackey's cause. If there was any chance that a healthy Lackey was a decent Lackey, after all, why did we trade the possibility of seeing said Lackey in 2012 for all those terrible days in Summer? The resentment, deserved or not, grew.
Still, however much some may be annoyed by the way that injury was handled, it's one of the things that might make this deal possible. After all, even though I've been comparing Lackey to Burnett here, there's a pretty wide gap between Burnett's performance with the Yankees last year and Lackey's 6.41 ERA. Without the excuse of an injury, it's pretty hard to imagine anyone rolling the dice with our albatross.
With the injury, however, the idea of picking up a heavily discounted Lackey might start to look pretty appealing to a lot of teams. After all, it was just a year ago that we were getting hyped up for the possibility of a renewed Lackey, riding the momentum of his strong finish into 2011. If you can discount this past year even just partially as a matter of injury, then you've got a pitcher who just put up an average ERA in a terrifically difficult division and park. He even had a 3.85 FIP and 4.15 xFIP to go with it.
Of course, Burnett came with a nice bit of hope too: just as Lackey finished 2011 with an ERA well above his xFIP, so too did Burnett. In fact, A.J. actually looks like a pretty attractive pickup for the Pirates when you see his 3.86 xFIP.
Still, Lackey fits the same mold as Burnett. Big money, big disappointment, and a big team that wouldn't mind wiping their hands of the whole situation. His results are worse, yes, but his excuse might be better, and he also comes with an X factor: the option year. The Red Sox had themselves protected in case of injury with an option in Lackey's contract that would give them one year of his services at league minimum if he missed significant time. A full season certainly seems like it would fit that bill. The Pirates are ready to cough up $13 million for two years of Burnett, so three years of Lackey could bring even more.
Of course, that assumes they want to make the deal. It may seem like a ridiculous thought, but could the Red Sox prefer to hang on to Lackey for the very same reasons other teams might pay? A year off and a Tommy John Surgery later, we could be back to the Lackey we saw around the end of 2010. No, he's not someone you'd pay $80 million to sign all over again, but the Sox have seen how hard it is to find decent pitchers. If they're only going to get $15 million in returns, then is it maybe worth kicking in another $15 to just keep him for the next three years?
If he doesn't perform well, after all, that doesn't mean a small team still wouldn't be interested on taking the gamble. He has a pretty decent history of success in the AL West, and so long as he isn't just as bad as he was in 2011, it's possible an NL team will look at him just as the Pirates are looking at A.J. Burnett.
Either way, though, with the concept proven, it would very much surprise me if the Sox didn't at least make some serious phone calls later this year.
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So...
Scott Boras is working in the Yankees front office now, that’s the only way I can figure out how there is actually a market for Burnett.
I am Sandy's bitch
We Are Because You Were
@WadePSU
Au contraire
http://mlb.sbnation.com/2012/2/17/2804758/aj-burnett-pittsburgh-pirates-new-york-yankees-trade
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by Marc Normandin on Feb 17, 2012 2:16 PM EST up reply actions
Uh, Marc...
Pirates’ devotees should be pleased.
No matter what your opinion on AJ, I don’t think you can really say that.
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by Ben Buchanan on Feb 17, 2012 2:29 PM EST up reply actions
they SHOULD be pleased today
Wakefield retired, their curse has ended.
They will win the NL Central this year. Book it.
You need an all around team...
The Pirates have some good young players, but they don’t have pitching and Burnett isn’t going to have it easier, against teams like the Reds, Cubs and Astros. His ERA will go down for basically facing a 8 batters line up and one pitcher, instead the brutal line ups like the Tigers, Sox etc. I always felt the Pirates unlike the Rays haven’t made great trades and good player development to get out of the cellar… They are still a couple years back from putting up a good team. The gNats have some good players, but they are also missing some key components, but they maybe a year ahead of the Pirates.
by superferret on Feb 21, 2012 12:05 AM EST up reply actions
I think you missed the point there.
Wasn’t actually talking about Burnett or how good the team is at all. Just making a silly joke about Wake’s career and how they haven’t won since he left.
The same year they lost another player, right? Barry Bonds?
I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.
Wait ’til THIS year!
I want to be clear
I’d like to make it clear that I don’t actually think that losing Wake is the reason that the Pirates haven’t won in several years.
I think you can.
A league average starter (with some upside if his HR rate was fluky last year) for $6.5MM is a pretty good deal.
by abbreviatedman on Feb 17, 2012 3:44 PM EST up reply actions
Our number 5 starter was Kevin Correia
I’m ecstatic to have him moved to swingman/released
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Y'all are missing the idea...
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by Ben Buchanan on Feb 17, 2012 5:36 PM EST up reply actions
AJ hasn't been great
But he’s moving out of a hitter friendly park into a more neutral park, into a weaker division (especially minus Albert and Prince) and in general a weaker league because of no DH. There’s reasonable belief for improvement from last year, and if so, he’s a vast improvement over our current options. He’s not a savior by any means, but he’s available and we had the money to spend while giving up prospects that were falling out of favor here anyway. After Edwin Jackson turned down a 1/10 and a 3/30 deal here, and Oswalt told us don’t even waste your time, it’s not like real improvement was going to come from the free agency market. It is what it is.
The glare of the spotlight is harsh, and the pressure that success breeds immense. We revere our heroes, but expect much. And criticism can come as easily as praise.
Perspectives become reality.
Twitter: @shanecglass
OK, well, it's going to ruin it, but
It’s a joke about Pirates fans being happy.
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by Ben Buchanan on Feb 18, 2012 1:57 AM EST up reply actions
Ha ha ha.
Man…some people JUST. DON’T. GET IT.
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
Look in the mirror and ask yourself: "Am I a hater troll?"
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Meant to add a winky emoticon at the end of that. Here it is:
;)
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
Look in the mirror and ask yourself: "Am I a hater troll?"
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well certainly no one will trade for him now,
to sit on the bench and recover from Tommy John. When he’s back, the Sox are certainly going to give him a chance (can we be optimistic and remember that the fact that he had that option year clause in his contract implies that he probably hasn’t been healthy his entire time with the Red Sox- he might well be better than he was in 2010).
If, say, he recovers through 2012, and the Sox give him a shot in 2013, there’s no reason his contract wouldn’t be moveable after that (or, in fact, completely reasonable, even a bargain at that point), as it will essentially be a 2 year, $15.75 million contract for 2014-2015- the AAV of under $8 million doesn’t sound nearly so bad.
So it just doesn’t seem like a question worth asking at the moment, for at least a year.
As much as I hate Lackey...
… hard to imagine there are options available at what we’d be paying him for those three seasons that produce better results (assuming, optimistically, that the surgically repaired elbow returns him to better form).
I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.
Wait ’til THIS year!
right, that's why I say
we pay him this year, and let him see how he deveiops next year, and then after that we can TALK about Burnetting him (yeah, I made that a verb)
I think I would honestly shed a tear of joy of that happened.
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
Look in the mirror and ask yourself: "Am I a hater troll?"
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
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Oki failed his physical for the Yankees.
Tweet. I wonder is it’s just a reason to re-work his contract, though. He didn’t have any health issues in Pawtucket, did he?
john lack or thereoff
please someone take him red sox nation lets get the ball rolling maybe if we all chip in we can pay another team to take him
Why are you here?
"I can’t explain what I mean. And even if I could, I’m not sure I’d feel like it."
-JD Salinger.
by TheLoneDavid on Feb 17, 2012 3:30 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
can we take a group vote
and if we get like 10 yes votes can this person be banned?
by wolf9309 on Feb 17, 2012 3:51 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
Chet...
….oh, nevermind.
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
Look in the mirror and ask yourself: "Am I a hater troll?"
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
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Looking at it from a luxury tax perspective.
Boston will pick up his 2015 $500K option, if only to lower the luxury tax hit. For 2013 and 2014, he’ll earn $16.5MM, but only cost $11MM towards the luxury cap. That makes him worth a little more to Boston than to other teams, since he provides some luxury cap relief.
If they can get a good deal on him for salary relief, I can see them doing it. But he’s not quite as costly as he’d be without that option.
2015 is an interesting case, though, since he will be earning $500K but costing $11MM towards the luxury cap. It could be similar to Scutaro this offseason, where his luxury tax hit was above his salary. Only Lackey’s 2015 case will be more extreme.
So in 2015, if Boston is still near the luxury cap, they could easily trade him to a team that’s not up against the cap (which is 90% of teams), and probably get something of actual value back, since the team would be getting a SP for $500K. If they did that, Boston would neatly sidestep a luxury tax hit, paying less in 2013-2014 towards the cap without having to pay extra in 2015.
TL;DR version: Lackey’s probably here to stay for a while yet.
Wow... good point about 2015.
I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.
Wait ’til THIS year!
Only slightly off topic....
Selig should consider curtailing these type of deals. not just for the Yankees, but as a policy. Trades are supposed to be mutually beneficial, done in the spirit of improving both teams. How is this deal improving the Yankees? These deals allow teams like the Yankees and Red Sox and a couple of other the capability of throwing more money around by paying other teams to take on bad contracts. Do you think the Yankes sign Kuroda if they know they have to keep Burnett? Maybe not.
At least when the Yankees traded for A-Rod they traded an all-star player at the time (Soriano).
When the Sox traded Renteria I believe they got a top prospect from Atlanta.
Well, how is this deal NOT improving the Yankees?
It opens up payroll and avoids a clubhouse issue.
The Pirates aren’t doing this deal unless they think that AJ is worth the extra $6.5 million, Yankees aren’t doing this unless they think he’s worth less to them. The only real kicker here is that the Yankees signed another player to fill his situation beforehand, but I just don’t see that as being a big problem.
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by Ben Buchanan on Feb 17, 2012 5:42 PM EST up reply actions
By definition...
… the Yankees are only “improved” when there’s a sex-for-Gold-Gloves scandal, A-Rod criminally assault’s someone for failing to pay an illegal poker debt in cocaine or the entire team is suspended for licking rare Brazilian performance-enhancing tree frogs. Anything which actually improves their baseball team makes them less fun.
Duh.
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by nuthinboutnuthin on Feb 17, 2012 6:14 PM EST up reply actions
Effing rogue apostrophe!!!
The Year of Extreme Opinions
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by nuthinboutnuthin on Feb 17, 2012 6:15 PM EST up reply actions
Well played
:-)
The Year of Extreme Opinions
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I apologize if this post has offended you in any way. Please retroactively ignore it. Thank you for your consideration.
by nuthinboutnuthin on Feb 18, 2012 3:11 PM EST up reply actions
I don't really see what the problem is
They Yankees want to pay for the flexibility and it’s not like the Pirates have much to loose. I see this as win/win.
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uh
maybe I should finish that statement…. He is way too demonstrative and I don’t see Valentine letting him get away with all that he did last season. Those type of antics can be tolerated by veterans, though they shouldn’t, but I fear the impact he would have throwing his arms up in disgust at a rookie missing a play or mishandling a ball. I think it’s pretty much in everyone’s best interest moving forward that the Sox find a way to rid themselves of John Lackey.
by Chris Buckley on Feb 17, 2012 7:40 PM EST up reply actions
For a second I forgot I was on the Lackey thread and you were talking about Wake
I was like “Huh?”
"I can’t explain what I mean. And even if I could, I’m not sure I’d feel like it."
-JD Salinger.
by TheLoneDavid on Feb 17, 2012 8:07 PM EST up reply actions
Excuse the change of subject, but weren't we supposed to hear from Commissioner Bud today
about the Theo reimbursement?
Way to be decisive there, Bud.
I saw this on Yahoo sports. On the bottom it said that Oki failed his physical
Shame
"Remember, it's not over until the fat lady drops one."
I have a serious case of Cashman envy
First, with his starting rotation in the spring of 2011 looking like Rick Santorum’s defense of his position on contraception, Cashman goes to the garbage dump and finds Garcia and Colon, who provide a combined 57 starts with ERA’a over 2 runs less than Lackey or Miller.
Then he reverse the mistake he made with the AJ Burnett signing by somehow convincing a dirt poor team like the Pirates to cover part of his mistake and in the process actually acquired players in return!! With the money he saves from this he then will sign a competent DH.
So having watched the Yankees pull this off, all we can dream of is that our GM will figure out a way to send Dice-K and Lackey to some pure dumb team.
As I said, I have Cashman envy.
I wonder when he will decide to dump Arod, whose contract looks seriously overpriced.
Helps to have $45MM more to spend than us.
But the Pineda deal is another feather in his cap.
by abbreviatedman on Feb 18, 2012 12:01 AM EST up reply actions
You envy Cashman
He overspent on Burnett and now he has to eat salary to move him.
A-Rod is a walking medical experiment and is locked up for most of this decade for way more than he is worth.
Jeter was paid WAY TO MUCH, for way too long and will be a huge salary waste.
Cashman moved arguably the best prospect in baseball for a pitcher who had major problems in the 2nd half of the season in a pitcher’s park and who has not shown he can handle pressure.
And he signed a 38 year old sinkerball pitcher who has never pitched in the AL East when they could of signed CJ Wilson.
I am trying to understand where the envy comes from?
We overspent on Lackey
a year after the Yankees overspent on Burnett and we all mocked the Yankees for overspending on Burnett. They moved Burnett, we still have Lackey.
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
Look in the mirror and ask yourself: "Am I a hater troll?"
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
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It could be argued
that between A-Rod, Jeter, and Burnett, Cashman squandered his financial advantage over the Red Sox, and yet New York made the playoffs last year. Boston did not.
"I can’t explain what I mean. And even if I could, I’m not sure I’d feel like it."
-JD Salinger.
by TheLoneDavid on Feb 18, 2012 11:29 PM EST up reply actions
Ok, Ben,
You gotta stop posting pictures of Lackey for articles. You just need to replace it with, I don’t know, cute cat pictures instead.
Everything Must Go.
Thats easy
Because John Lackey is injured and players who are injured cannot be traded under the CBA with the Players Association.
Wow, all the people bitching about starting pitching and you guys want to dump Dice-K and Lackey for chump prospects? Maybe the Sox should wait and field a team with a full rotation before dumping arms willy nilly?
Yankees had 8 starters, they had to move at least one. They are not in the same situation as the Red Sox.
Haven't you heard?
We have an awesome rotation.
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
Look in the mirror and ask yourself: "Am I a hater troll?"
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
OTM | Silver Seven

Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
Look in the mirror and ask yourself: "Am I a hater troll?"
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
OTM | Silver Seven

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