2012 Red Sox Top Prospect Voting #5: Ryan Kalish Leads The Second Wave
by Ben Buchanan on Feb 1, 2012 10:31 AM EST
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PrintWhat does a year of injury and futility cost you? Three spots if you're Ryan Kalish. After leading the list last year, Kalish comes in at #4 after a lost 2011.
He's not considered a prospect by all, but Kalish fits the bill in most ways. With only 163 at bats in Boston, Kalish is very much still the kid at Triple-A who fans are still waiting on to make the majors as a full-time starter. The hope was that this would happen last year, but a shoulder injury suffered in spring left him out for much of the season, and ineffective in his short return before he was again sidelined.
Now, with surgery out of the way and rehab in progress, Kalish will have to reassert himself as the heir apparent in right field. With the Sox eyeing a platoon there for 2012, that probably can't happen soon enough for most fans.
1. Ryan Lavarnway, C/DH
2. Will Middlebrooks, 3B
3. Xander Bogaerts, SS
4. Ryan Kalish, OF
Alright, it's time to finish up the top five. Ryan Kalish topped the second wave of players by a sizable margin, but second place was pretty close, and who knows where his votes are headed? It's the same story as always: rec the appropriate comment below to vote, and vote away!
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VOTE HERE FOR MATT BARNES
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by Ben Buchanan on Feb 1, 2012 10:32 AM EST reply actions 7 recs
I think he should have been 4th already
There goes another try…
by Roberto Perez Lopez on Feb 2, 2012 1:35 AM EST up reply actions
VOTE HERE FOR BRYCE BRENTZ
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by Ben Buchanan on Feb 1, 2012 10:32 AM EST reply actions 3 recs
Brentz needs love
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by Marc Normandin on Feb 1, 2012 12:33 PM EST up reply actions
And less K's
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by nuthinboutnuthin on Feb 1, 2012 12:35 PM EST up reply actions
He struck out 22 percent of the time last year
That’s not a rate to be alarmed about.
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by Marc Normandin on Feb 1, 2012 12:42 PM EST up reply actions
I'm not alarmed...
… I’m just stating reasons for not going with him over Cecchini. Also, his man-amongst-boys time in Greenville helps his overall stat line. Not down at Brentz at all – just prefer Cecchini. Now, if Brentz adjusts and demolishes Salem this year like he did with Greenville, I’m sold (along with everyone else, I know).
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by nuthinboutnuthin on Feb 1, 2012 12:50 PM EST up reply actions
I like Cecchini a lot as well
But he has yet to have that breakout performance at the professional level like Brentz did last year that really shows off that potential in full form. Until he does (hopefully this year) I have to put guys like Brentz ahead of him
by The Burning Scheyer Jersey on Feb 1, 2012 3:58 PM EST up reply actions
I don't know about you nuthin....
but if Brentz hits solid for a month in Salem, I’d expect a fast promotion to Portland. As said, he’s old for his level, the Sox will want to catch him up at some point and I truly believe this is the year. I’d bet my scholarships on that Brentz finishes this year in Portland….. how he performs there….that’s going to be a sign of things to come….
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I'd co-sign this.
Absolutely.
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I apologize if this post has offended you in any way. Please retroactively ignore it. Thank you for your consideration.
by nuthinboutnuthin on Feb 1, 2012 6:52 PM EST up reply actions
Speaking of Brentz
He’s apparently on Twitter now https://twitter.com/#!/Bbrentz7
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by Marc Normandin on Feb 1, 2012 1:15 PM EST up reply actions
VOTE HERE FOR GARIN CECCHINI
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by Ben Buchanan on Feb 1, 2012 10:32 AM EST reply actions 10 recs
Cecchini
He’s got position on Brentz and not-being-a-pitcher-who’s-never-thrown-a-pro-pitch on Barnes. Those are my next two, though.
by abbreviatedman on Feb 1, 2012 11:00 AM EST up reply actions
This.
Plate discipline seems much more valuable in a prospect than monster power. It suggests (justifiably or not) a confident, patient and considered approach to hitting which in turn speaks to an ability to adjust to better competition and bigger situations. Add that to Cecchini’s ability to play defense and he’s my pick.
Plus, can you imagine commentators trying to pronounce his name?
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I apologize if this post has offended you in any way. Please retroactively ignore it. Thank you for your consideration.
by nuthinboutnuthin on Feb 1, 2012 12:56 PM EST up reply actions
Great opposite field power too
You add the speed (I think he’ll lose some of it while gaining mass but I hope he’ll keep that first step quickness for his fielding duties), the arm and you have a very interesting package…
Love the guy!
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VOTE HERE FOR SEAN COYLE
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by Ben Buchanan on Feb 1, 2012 10:32 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
VOTE HERE FOR JOSE IGLESIAS
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by Ben Buchanan on Feb 1, 2012 10:32 AM EST reply actions 2 recs
From Pedroia:
Can he hit? Are you kidding? How old is he, 21? When I was his age I was still in college using an Aluminum bat. From MLB TV, Iglesias already has a better OBP than Visquel, Ozzie and (I dont remember) in their first 3-4 years of pro ball. From Gammons, he has such quick hands that he will become a decent to good hitter. Bobby V used Ordonez for defense, and he will love Iglesias, especially when he starts to hit. From me, over the next few years, with Iglesias & Middlebrook, PD and Gonzo, the Sox will have an epic infield. As his defense is extraordinary, as he continues to improve at the plate, Iggy could be up in June as SS of the future with huge upside. He gets my vote.
by GerryT on Feb 1, 2012 5:52 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Continues to improve
???
2010: .719 OPS
2011: .554 OPS
In order to continue something, you have to start it, he got worse between years 1 and 2.
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As a qualifier
You could have mentioned he went from A and AA in 2010 to AAA last year.
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by Lloyd Christmas on Feb 1, 2012 6:27 PM EST up reply actions
Sure
But not a single definition of the word “improve” applies to anything he has done with his bat, I mean, maybe he corked it, but that’s about it.
I am Sandy's bitch.
Joseph Vincent Paterno 12/21/26 - 1/22/12 RIP Coach
Penn State Forever
Well
He did strike out less, per AB.
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2011 Varitek League Champion
by Lloyd Christmas on Feb 1, 2012 7:06 PM EST up reply actions
I saw the piece posted about him being underrated.
Made a lot of these points, and then some. (Was it your piece? I’ve forgotten.)
Regardless, I very nearly voted Iglesias because of that piece, and you’ve reinforced the idea here. I went pitching mostly because I think we’re starved for it, but… I really hope we see him hitting well, and playing SS for us by June (or that Aviles takes him waiting in the wings as motivation for a break out season of his own).
I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.
Wait ’til THIS year!
VOTE HERE FOR ANTHONY RANAUDO
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by Ben Buchanan on Feb 1, 2012 10:44 AM EST reply actions 19 recs
Ranaudo!
He did not have the dominant, overwhelming year we expected, but I get the impression that because of that, everyone thinks he did much worse than he did. I feel like what gets overlooked is that he also went up 70 innings from what he pitched the year before. I can’t drop him further until I see how he comes back next year.
by wolf9309 on Feb 1, 2012 11:18 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
One thing that bothers me about Ranaudo dropping so much in most rankings
is that he is essentially exactly what Matt Barnes is, but with one year of professional experience under his belt. Both were first round draft picks that fell to us because of signability questions. Both were excellent college pitchers who made a mark in the CWS. Both are big strong pitchers with very projectable bodies. Suddenly everyone puts Barnes ahead of Ranaudo- why? Barnes isn’t likely to start higher than A ball, maybe high A at best. Ranaudo’s season wasn’t so bad that he suddenly isn’t worth that much less than he was when he was drafted. For those ranking Barnes above Ranaudo, I would ask. Would you have done the same if Ranaudo was in this year’s (weaker) draft class? Some might, certainly, but it isn’t a no brainer, by any means.
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My answer is...
…a lot of people who saw Ranaudo last year at Salem thought he was nothing special and that, if you didn’t know who he was, you wouldn’t have noticed him.
On the other hand, Matt Barnes still has a chance to go to Salem and be a stand out. My decision on Barnes over Ranaudo is based on the lack of upside that many scouts see in Ranaudo after his performance last year.
But you’re right — they are quite similar and it’s perhaps a bit unfair, but Barnes, to me, allows a bit more to dream on, mainly because there aren’t any numbers to mess with the dream. He hasn’t shown his flaws at Salem yet, which leaves the possibility that he might go there and dominate, whereas Ranuado has already gone there and been mediocre.
Either way, I’m not particularly excited about either — don’t see ace upside in either and it’s a stretch for me to see either as a strong No. 2.
I could definitely see an argument for a Brentz or another here. As we saw with the turnover from last year’s rankings, the Red Sox have a ton of three-star-ish prospects who are volatile.
by UltimateCranston on Feb 1, 2012 3:46 PM EST up reply actions
That's ridiculous.
I think Baseball fans in general have this skewed perception of that every team needs to have aces galore in order to win. The Fhantastic Four in Philly this past year did not help that perception.
Fortunately for the Redsox and these two kids, neither has to be an ace, and I think you’re placing a little too much on results and not projection/skills/abilities if you’re in the belief that they can’t be No. 2 Starter worthy. Casey Kelly with the Padres is now being billed as a No. 2 starter and not the ace everyone once thought he was going to be.
My point is, I think you’re being very unfair to Ranaudo and a Barnes a bit too. You can’t judge pitching prospects the way you judge position player prospects, not everything is in the stats. I was proven years ago that sabermetrics is more efficient at predicting position players than pitchers. Not every pitcher is going to blaze through the minors like Matt Moore, not every pitcher is going to have the prototypical body (Todd Collins, KC Royals), and not every pitcher is going to dominate every single level at first (see Pimentel, Britton, and even Bard)….
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Do you know how rare No. 2 starters are?
by UltimateCranston on Feb 1, 2012 8:38 PM EST up reply actions
Also...
Kelly is more like a No. 3 or 4 if things go well, which is not bad, but it’s hard to see a real No. 2 coming from a guy with his K-rate. Maybe now that his age has caught up to his peers, he’ll start to perform better.
People love to call pitching prospects future aces, but they are so rare. I would love for Ranaudo and Barnes to become even as good as No. 3 starters. To say that’s their upside might be harsh, but it’s also quite valuable, and so few pitchers even get to that level.
by UltimateCranston on Feb 1, 2012 8:43 PM EST up reply actions
yes
not every pitching prospect can actually be a future number one- or there would be a lot more number one’s out there.
There tends to be a lot of confusion with prospect ceiling. When people hear “#2 starter ceiling,” they tend to hear “#2 starter in a year,” whereas, for most prospects, actually succeeding in getting a rotation spot is incredibly rare.
People confuse enthusiasm from scouts/prospect gurus
Really liking a pitcher makes people feel that pitcher is special, whereas they might really like him and see him as a four. It’s just a major league caliber four is a real useful pitcher, and stands out among a crowd of minor league hurlers who will never go anywhere.
Twitter: @Marc_Normandin
by Marc Normandin on Feb 2, 2012 11:42 AM EST up reply actions
Ranaudo was also working his way back from an injury.
His big national championship year at LSU was the (sophomore) year before his draft year, not his final (junior) year when he was injured. So last year was also a build-back-innings year for him. The promotion played a part as did the endurance factor as the season wore on.
I think he’ll be an above average AA pitcher this year as he continues to develop and has the potential to see Pawtucket before it’s all over.
I'll admit less knowledge as we get to this level...
… so I voted for Ranaudo because I’d like to believe we have a pitcher in our Top 5 prospect pool, not because I know he belongs there.
Lord knows where I sit on the BLAAAAAAAAAARGH OMFG SIGN STARTERS camp, so this is going to be my vote to hope that we have starting pitching developing in the system.
I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.
Wait ’til THIS year!
VOTE HERE FOR BLAKE SWIHART
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by Ben Buchanan on Feb 1, 2012 10:45 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Future number 1 prospect of the Red Sox
by OzTiger on Feb 1, 2012 5:09 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
I know nothing about Wilson.
He seems to have had some nice moments as a starter, but we seem content that he will eventually become a bullpen arm.
What’s today’s projection on him?
From what I've read he's got a solid fastball and a plus slider
but not a good third pitch – sounds like back end material to me
Been working on his changeup.
It’s what messed up very early 2011 for him. Not sure if that pitch developed, or if he just stopped throwing it as much.
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by Ben Buchanan on Feb 1, 2012 12:24 PM EST up reply actions
Wasn't this guy the one who everyone wanted to be a closer last year?
What’s up with him being in the starting depth conversation?
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by TheLoneDavid on Feb 1, 2012 12:25 PM EST up reply actions
Cook, Padilla, Bard, Maine
… That’s whats up with him being in the starting depth conversation.
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Everyone knows that success as a starter is irrelevant to starting :-)
The Year of Extreme Opinions
BLAAAAAAARGH OMFG SIGN STARTERS!!
I apologize if this post has offended you in any way. Please retroactively ignore it. Thank you for your consideration.
by nuthinboutnuthin on Feb 1, 2012 1:17 PM EST up reply actions
Seems like first to 5 might be the winner here...
You could make a case for just about any of these guys. Wilson and Iglesias have proximity on their sides, Swihart and Barnes have draft position, Ranuado has value as the top pitcher with experience, Jacobs, Coyle, Brentz, Cecchini are all high upside players.
I really wanted to give my rec to Cecchini, but only playing 32 games in his first professional season certainly wasn’t a good thing. I’m going to wait on Wilson and Iglesias for now, I think the upside of the younger guys listed here outweighs their proximity. Ranuado wasn’t dominant but was solid, but I’m passing on him. Brentz had a great season, but he’s a little old for the level. Swihart and Barnes’ lack of experience at a professional level doesn’t help them either here when compared against the other two, Jacobs and Coyle.
Between those two I go with Coyle, he strikes out a ton, but that can be fixed, I see a lot of Pedroia in him, belting 14 HRs as a 20 year old while being a solid defender at 2B. An OBP .115 points above his AVE.
It could have been anyone of these guys though, for some systems that might be a bad thing for the number 5 spot, but for us I think it’s huge strength.
I am Sandy's bitch.
Joseph Vincent Paterno 12/21/26 - 1/22/12 RIP Coach
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