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Daisuke Matsuzaka Throws Off Of Mound

Pitcher Daisuke Matsuzaka of the Boston Red Sox watches his team against the Tampa Bay Rays during the game at Tropicana Field in St. Petersburg, Florida.  (Photo by J. Meric/Getty Images)

Per a report by the Mainichi Daily News (and by way of WEEI's Alex Speier) there is word that Daisuke Matsuzaka threw off of a mound for the first time since undergoing Tommy John surgery June 10 of last year. This is good news for the Red Sox, not just Matsuzaka, as the sooner he rehabilitates from his major procedure, the sooner he can be back with Boston as additional pitching depth.

You might be wondering, "Who is this person being positive about Dice-K?" While a quick search will certainly yield plenty of moments where Matsuzaka's nibbling and inconsistency has driven me mad over the years, the dislike for him is also generally overdone. I'm not about to start up a fan club by any means, but he has his uses.

Star-divide

Matsuzaka, when healthy, is capable of being a league-average or better starting pitcher. His main issue is that he is rarely healthy. That can't just be waved away and certainly isn't insignificant, but with major elbow surgery in his recent past, Matsuzaka might finally be able to perform on the mound with some measure of consistency. At the least, his chances of doing so have improved.

While the fact it was TJ that was necessary to heal what ailed Matsuzaka was something of a shock, an injury itself wasn't a surprise. Last spring at Red Sox Beacon, we profiled each of the team's major players, analyzing an important factor that related to success or failure in the upcoming season. Find the article via a search engine, and you'll see the headline, "Daisuke Matsuzaka Needs To Avoid Injuries."

The other key point made in the piece, besides bracing yourself for an inevitable injury, was that Dice-K, even with a history littered with strained this and pulled that, was still expected to be effective. Just not in terms of quantity. Matsuzaka was projected for a 4.14 ERA, 14 quality starts, over eight strikeouts per nine, and plenty of walks, as evidenced by the 1.4 WHIP forecast. The ERA seemed low, even with the optimism of spring around, but the rest sounded plausible, especially just the 150-160 innings.

Matsuzaka instead threw just 36 frames with an ERA of 5.30, thanks to never finding his rhythm courtesy of that busted elbow. Had he remained healthy (or, at least, what qualifies for a typically healthy Dice-K campaign), it's likely Boston would have made the playoffs. He wouldn't have even needed to replicate his optimistic pre-season projections, either: just a repeat of 2010 or a continuation of his career's work (career 108 ERA+, even including the brutal, injury-shortened campaigns) with Boston would have sufficed in place of what the Red Sox did throw out there.

That's certainly some post-traumatic September disorder talking, but it's also reality. Dice-K is no worse than many of the pitchers the Red Sox and this community would have been fine with signing this winter. He's not Roy Oswalt, or maybe even Edwin Jackson, but he is capable of average or better innings, and that's all that Red Sox rotation needed. With the last spot in the Red Sox rotation undetermined still, it's oddly comforting to think that Matsuzaka might be back in 2012 after all.

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Sean O throws self off bridge

Everything Must Go.

by Sean O on Jan 31, 2012 2:22 PM EST via Android app reply actions  

As depth...

…I’m fine with it, under my new favorite mantra: If it keeps Andrew Miller out of the majors, I approve.

by Marc Normandin on Jan 31, 2012 2:27 PM EST up reply actions  

I can't stand Miller, but like a moth to a flame....

I’m oddly intrigued by this reliever idea. Could we get him to pump up the volume, throw 90% 95MPH fastballs and allow him to be functional?

by cds7c on Jan 31, 2012 2:47 PM EST up reply actions  

I would prefer Morales as the lefty reliever

And probably Doubront, as well. Moving to relief would certainly take some of the load off of inconsistent mechanics/command, but a lot of the balls he throws seem to be more intentional than misplaced. He doesn’t attack the zone, despite having the stuff to do so.

Basically, I think he needs more of an approach overhaul than a role change.

by Marc Normandin on Jan 31, 2012 2:51 PM EST up reply actions  

Any hope at all that Cliff Lee got that point through to him this offseason?

I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.

Wait ’til THIS year!

by AlohaSox on Jan 31, 2012 9:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Not really

I’m at the point with Miller where I would rather be pleasantly surprised than expect anything from him. It’s not like Lee is the first person to tell him that the strike zone is where he needs to be.

by Marc Normandin on Feb 1, 2012 7:51 AM EST up reply actions  

Oh, I know... just throwing a little hope out there...

Though, I’m in the same boat. I think it would need to be Randy Johnson, who also dealt with his wildness early in his career… but I’m not sure how he got that straightened out, so…

I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.

Wait ’til THIS year!

by AlohaSox on Feb 1, 2012 3:06 PM EST up reply actions  

I was fully behind Miller-to-the-bullpen

when Bard was there as well. It would have been a good time to test out Miller’s potential in that role.

Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.

@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
OTM | Silver Seven

by Bloggy on Jan 31, 2012 3:45 PM EST up reply actions  

I really thought Miller could have been out closer of the future

Cherington fucked that up though.

"There's something out there, beyond the horizon in the corner of your eye. I'm going to find out what it is."
-Thomas Solomon, Gentleman Adventurer.

by TheLoneDavid on Jan 31, 2012 6:54 PM EST up reply actions  

I firmly believe

That being a starter has little to do with being a reliever. Give Andrew a shot in the pen.

Everything Must Go.

by Sean O on Jan 31, 2012 9:08 PM EST up reply actions  

I think Miller could potentially translate very well to the pen, personally.

When you looked at his pitch-number breakdown that was posted early in the offseason, his 1-25 numbers were quite good. Why not try to see if that can translate into a bullpen option rather than beating your face against the wall trying to make him the starter he seemingly can’t be?

(Not you, Sean, the Sox FO)

Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.

@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
OTM | Silver Seven

by Bloggy on Feb 1, 2012 11:28 AM EST up reply actions  

At this point

Given all of the other signings, Miller as a starter in the spring probably has more to do with stamina and depth than it does an actual job in the rotation. So the bullpen might actually be what they are planning. Just not sure if he’s a better fit than Morales or Doubront for the role.

by Marc Normandin on Feb 1, 2012 11:59 AM EST up reply actions  

Oh, probably.

But my thought was more that, given his performance history, he should have been in the plans as a bullpen option right from the beginning of the offseason. If he didn’t work, he didn’t work, but there would seem to be a higher chance to extract value from him.

What their plans are for him now….whatever.

Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.

@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
OTM | Silver Seven

by Bloggy on Feb 1, 2012 12:17 PM EST up reply actions  

+1

Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.

@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
OTM | Silver Seven

by Bloggy on Feb 1, 2012 11:26 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

This moth

still doesn’t think Miller knows how to throw a strike…

by flasoxfan on Jan 31, 2012 4:12 PM EST up reply actions  

Miller for Setup Guy

It just might work. Tell him to throw as hard as possible for one inning at a time and see.

Everything Must Go.

by Sean O on Jan 31, 2012 9:07 PM EST up reply actions  

Actually, I won't joke about this now

Because of the jackass who killed himself at Ruggles tonight, completely F’ing up everyone’s commute. If you’re gonna An Hero, and for the most part I don’t think you should, don’t friggin’ ruin the train conductor’s life and screw up everyone’s day.

/end rant
//not really, also keep Dice-K from ever pitching for us again

Everything Must Go.

by Sean O on Jan 31, 2012 9:06 PM EST up reply actions  

I am forever a completely irrational Matsuzaka optimist

Yes, I understand it is a terrible affliction, but I can’t help it.

"We Believe" - Rudy Fernandez

by TheGreatMon on Jan 31, 2012 2:50 PM EST reply actions  

If you could somehow ignore that fact that the club paid 51 million just to negotiate

Dice’s output hasn’t been that bad – of course you can’t and you still have to watch him pitch. That said, he’s been a sight better for the club than Lackey

by BobZupcic on Jan 31, 2012 6:16 PM EST up reply actions  

I can't believe I am feeling a sense of relief about this

But I am feeling a sense of relief about this.

Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.

@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
OTM | Silver Seven

by Bloggy on Jan 31, 2012 3:46 PM EST reply actions  

+1

Thanks Tito & Theo for 04 and 07.

by Fenway302 on Jan 31, 2012 3:55 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Not a huge fan of Dice but...

Until I’m shown otherwise I will be optimistic that A) Dice will return and B) Be somewhat effective. Hey, it’s gotta be better than Lackey! Here’s to hoping Dice K gets better and stays healthy enough to help the Sox in 2012.

Thanks Tito & Theo for 04 and 07.

by Fenway302 on Jan 31, 2012 3:55 PM EST via mobile reply actions  

Yea!!!

A pitcher whose lowest ERA in 3 years has been 4.69 is coming back!!! I can’t wait until the first time he misses outside on a 3-2 count to his third batter in a row and walks in a run. His starts are such a joy to watch.

by flasoxfan on Jan 31, 2012 4:08 PM EST reply actions  

Bravo!

I am also a Dice K optimist… I wish I’d gotten to see him pitch live because that’s an extra hour in the ballpark… Maybe I’ll still have a chance.

I think it would be interesting to see (in an alternate reality) what would happen if Dice K was allowed to follow his own Japanese program and pitch all those innings and run up a 130 or so pitch count. It seems to me like there might have been some credit to his point, since he got hurt doing it the way we have come to do it in the States these days and that was his concern; not having enough savings in his arm.

Its kinda odd that they pursued him at all since he had pitched so much before he came to the bigs… they had to have a Carmine file on him…

by Dirigo on Jan 31, 2012 4:17 PM EST reply actions  

"I wish I’d gotten to see him pitch live"

“I wish I’d gotten to see him pitch live”

“I wish I’d gotten to see him pitch live”

“I WISH I’D GOTTEN TO SEE HIM PITCH LIVE”

WHAT.

Everything Must Go.

by Sean O on Jan 31, 2012 9:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Ha ha ha!

Oh, c’mon… you saw a Dice gem in 2011, didn’t you?

When he was on, he could be a heck of a pitcher. That’s probably the most frustrating thing about him. You wanted him to go out and attack the zone like that every start, and the next one, he’d be back to nibbling (or the batters would know better than to swing at pitches just out of the zone).

I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.

Wait ’til THIS year!

by AlohaSox on Jan 31, 2012 9:45 PM EST up reply actions  

Man, if anyone needed to train with Cliff Lee over the offseason...

"There's something out there, beyond the horizon in the corner of your eye. I'm going to find out what it is."
-Thomas Solomon, Gentleman Adventurer.

by TheLoneDavid on Jan 31, 2012 9:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Ha ha ha!

Something tells me they really don’t speak the same language.

I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.

Wait ’til THIS year!

by AlohaSox on Jan 31, 2012 9:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, Lee speaks "good pitcher"

"There's something out there, beyond the horizon in the corner of your eye. I'm going to find out what it is."
-Thomas Solomon, Gentleman Adventurer.

by TheLoneDavid on Jan 31, 2012 9:53 PM EST up reply actions  

I've seen 2 Matsuzaka gems

And about a dozen disasters.

Everything Must Go.

by Sean O on Jan 31, 2012 10:09 PM EST up reply actions  

I've seen him once

W, 8.0 IP, 1 H, 0 ER, 9 K, 3 BB.

If television didn’t exist and I lived in a cave where they didn’t deliver newspapers, I’d think he was totally awesome.

The Year of Extreme Opinions
BLAAAAAAARGH OMFG SIGN STARTERS!!
I apologize if this post has offended you in any way. Please retroactively ignore it. Thank you for your consideration.

by nuthinboutnuthin on Jan 31, 2012 10:56 PM EST up reply actions  

Folks, looks like we've got our #4 starter...

I am Sandy's bitch.

Joseph Vincent Paterno 12/21/26 - 1/22/12 RIP Coach
Penn State Forever

by Rogue Nine on Jan 31, 2012 4:32 PM EST reply actions  

If this is the first time he's throwing off a mount

I doubt he’ll be ready for the start of the season.

That being said I’d rather DiceK than Cook or Padilla. And I cannot actually believe I just made that statement. I think I’m going to go vomit now.

Author, Dawn of a New Age and The Blademaster
CO, USS Callisto
Avid Red Sox fan :)

by Rick Bentsen on Jan 31, 2012 4:34 PM EST up reply actions  

No, I agree

He won’t start the season, but I think if his starting time is late May (which seems reasonable if he’s throwing now), rather than late July, the team might just try and make do because Dice likely IS better than Cook, Padilla, Maine, Miller and Aceves and we’re already paying him.

I am Sandy's bitch.

Joseph Vincent Paterno 12/21/26 - 1/22/12 RIP Coach
Penn State Forever

by Rogue Nine on Jan 31, 2012 4:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Generally 12-18 months for TJ recovery

So I assume he won’t be in the minors until June, if everything goes well. Still a lot of season left after that, of course.

by Marc Normandin on Jan 31, 2012 4:48 PM EST up reply actions  

He seems to be ahead of that schedule though.

I didn’t think he’d be throwing after 7 months.

I am Sandy's bitch.

Joseph Vincent Paterno 12/21/26 - 1/22/12 RIP Coach
Penn State Forever

by Rogue Nine on Jan 31, 2012 5:06 PM EST up reply actions  

Should be 12-18 months

But I’m guessing Matsuzaka will get too fine with recovery and miss outside.

Everything Must Go.

by Sean O on Jan 31, 2012 9:10 PM EST up reply actions  

Ha ha ha!

I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.

Wait ’til THIS year!

by AlohaSox on Jan 31, 2012 9:50 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm sorry

but when healthy Maine > Dice-K, and it’s not even close.

"There's something out there, beyond the horizon in the corner of your eye. I'm going to find out what it is."
-Thomas Solomon, Gentleman Adventurer.

by TheLoneDavid on Jan 31, 2012 6:55 PM EST up reply actions  

That's he's had 1 full healthy season and that it was 4 seasons ago

Makes “when healthy” a much longer shot than Dice-K being effective.

I am Sandy's bitch.

Joseph Vincent Paterno 12/21/26 - 1/22/12 RIP Coach
Penn State Forever

by Rogue Nine on Jan 31, 2012 7:51 PM EST up reply actions  

Dice-K's last fully healthy season was the same year.

"There's something out there, beyond the horizon in the corner of your eye. I'm going to find out what it is."
-Thomas Solomon, Gentleman Adventurer.

by TheLoneDavid on Jan 31, 2012 7:56 PM EST up reply actions  

Dice has managed 418 innings since 2007

261 for Maine. If I had to put eggs in a basket, it’s no question to me which basket I’d choose.

I am Sandy's bitch.

Joseph Vincent Paterno 12/21/26 - 1/22/12 RIP Coach
Penn State Forever

by Rogue Nine on Jan 31, 2012 9:03 PM EST up reply actions  

Is it he that ruins your night?

Or you his? There seems to be a strong correlation in your attendance and Sox losses no matter who was pitching.

I am Sandy's bitch.

Joseph Vincent Paterno 12/21/26 - 1/22/12 RIP Coach
Penn State Forever

by Rogue Nine on Jan 31, 2012 9:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Exactly

Even though he hasn’t been the pitcher people thought he should be, he still has value.

"Man you are one pathetic loser. No offense." - Lloyd Christmas
2011 Varitek League Champion

by Lloyd Christmas on Jan 31, 2012 10:00 PM EST up reply actions  

Nooooooooooo

I’d rather take Padilla as #4

by Taro yamada on Jan 31, 2012 5:22 PM EST up reply actions  

In best Todd Margaret voice:

Uhh,who? What? How? No, no, not how…"

Longest offseason ever.

"Play Hard Always"

by MassGal on Jan 31, 2012 5:49 PM EST reply actions  

I agree

Is it Spring Training yet?

Author, Dawn of a New Age and The Blademaster
CO, USS Callisto
Avid Red Sox fan :)

by Rick Bentsen on Jan 31, 2012 5:56 PM EST up reply actions  

Haha, the offseason so long, Dice-K recovered from TJ surgery.

"There's something out there, beyond the horizon in the corner of your eye. I'm going to find out what it is."
-Thomas Solomon, Gentleman Adventurer.

by TheLoneDavid on Jan 31, 2012 6:56 PM EST up reply actions  

Dice-K stays healthy Sox make playoffs in 2011

Certainly he drives us all nuts but it is a huge improvement from what we trotted out there for the last month of the season. Sox don’t need domination from their 4-5 starters. They simply need a pitcher to keep them in the game and give the offense a chance! Give the other team 5-6 runs and the Sox offense 9 innings, I’d take the Sox!

by Chris Sanford on Jan 31, 2012 6:42 PM EST reply actions  

I wouldn't

not if we have a September like last year’s.

"There's something out there, beyond the horizon in the corner of your eye. I'm going to find out what it is."
-Thomas Solomon, Gentleman Adventurer.

by TheLoneDavid on Jan 31, 2012 6:56 PM EST up reply actions  

5.3 ERA, 1.13 K/BB rate

I disagree.

Everything Must Go.

by Sean O on Jan 31, 2012 9:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Fine, but we're talking a baseline level of productivity

over his Sox career that is not very encouraging, apart from being utterly unwatchable. And it’s not like he’ll be magically fixed and learn how to throw strikes when he’s recovering from major surgery.

Everything Must Go.

by Sean O on Feb 1, 2012 8:14 AM EST up reply actions  

Frankly

I’d rather have John Maine or Aaron Cook, if they’re healthy.

"There's something out there, beyond the horizon in the corner of your eye. I'm going to find out what it is."
-Thomas Solomon, Gentleman Adventurer.

by TheLoneDavid on Jan 31, 2012 6:57 PM EST reply actions  

I don't know if Maine's shoulder will hold up as a starter

It would be nice if it could, of course, because I like him a lot.

by Marc Normandin on Jan 31, 2012 7:03 PM EST up reply actions  

With the way our bullpen is right now

I’d like to start him in the minors, so the coaches there can see what’s going on with his mechanics. Then if they give the okay, I’d move him up to the #5 spot. He’s definitely got the most talent of any of our rotation options if he can stay healthy. What did he do last year? Did he pitch at all?

"There's something out there, beyond the horizon in the corner of your eye. I'm going to find out what it is."
-Thomas Solomon, Gentleman Adventurer.

by TheLoneDavid on Jan 31, 2012 7:09 PM EST up reply actions  

He started in Triple-A

And was awful. I think this is partially why they want him for relief. I’m not sure how useful he’ll be a starter (I’d love to be wrong), but I have high hopes for him in relief.

by Marc Normandin on Jan 31, 2012 8:07 PM EST up reply actions  

No

yet another nightmare. i first read the lede as Dice-K thrown off mound and cheered. somebody someplace had some sense. but then i realized that this nightmare was going to continue until his contract is up. please get two real starters someplace.

by papoonforpresident on Jan 31, 2012 8:25 PM EST reply actions  

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