2012 Red Sox Top Prospect Voting #4: Xander Bogaerts Coasts Into Third
by Ben Buchanan on Jan 27, 2012 12:17 PM EST
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The third spot on the list was always the one that was going to be obvious. At least here on Over The Monster, the community clearly held that there was a top tier of prospects formed by three men: Xander Bogaerts, Ryan Lavarnway, and Will Middlebrooks. With Lavarnway and Middlebrooks having taken first and second, Bogaerts was pretty much a lock for third.
Of course, that's actually a bit of a hit for Bogaerts, who has made his way to the top of many a prospector's list. And it's not hard to see why, either. As one of the youngest players at his level, Bogaerts tore the cover off the ball with Single-A Greenville. Even though he had some discipline struggles at the plate (hardly surprising at his age), he managed to hit 16 home runs in just 265 at bats en route to a .249 ISO. While he doesn't necessarily project to stay at shortstop long term, the added mass that will cause the shift could well add even more power.
With his breakout year having been predated by Jim Callis calling him our most exciting player to come from the DSL since Hanley Ramirez, it's just hard not to get hyped up about him.
- Ryan Lavarnway, C/DH
- Will Middlebrooks, 3B
- Xander Bogaerts, SS
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VOTE FOR MATT BARNES HERE
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by Ben Buchanan on Jan 27, 2012 12:18 PM EST reply actions 10 recs
I guess is time we start getting this guy some votes...
… so count me in.
Highest pitcher ceiling in the system for me.
by Roberto Perez Lopez on Jan 27, 2012 1:36 PM EST up reply actions
That's probably true...
…and that’s also part of the problem with the Sox system. Not many high ceiling pitchers at all. Hopefully some of these guys will blossom.
by UltimateCranston on Jan 27, 2012 1:38 PM EST up reply actions
Better than manny Banuelos
got a B+ from Sickels, 2nd in the system
Someone said Barnes is a better prospect than Banuelos?
Man, I hope that’s true. I do think Banuelos is a touch overrated, but he’s still a top 25-40 overall guy.
by UltimateCranston on Jan 27, 2012 1:54 PM EST up reply actions
John Sickels put
Barnes at a B+ and Banuelos at a B
Barnes is the pick.
Should have been third, settles for fourth.
"Man you are one pathetic loser. No offense." - Lloyd Christmas
2011 Varitek League Champion
by Lloyd Christmas on Jan 27, 2012 7:04 PM EST up reply actions
I don't think Kalish is really a prospect... but no matter
Barnes is the best pitching prospect in the system, and I’m excited for him.
He’ll probably slide in closer to 6th or 7th but should really be #4.
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by outofleftfield on Jan 28, 2012 3:39 AM EST up reply actions
VOTE FOR BRYCE BRENTZ HERE
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by Ben Buchanan on Jan 27, 2012 12:19 PM EST reply actions 4 recs
Like Garin's look
But Brentz straight up MASHED last season. He’s my guy, definitely.
by The Burning Scheyer Jersey on Jan 27, 2012 9:25 PM EST up reply actions
VOTE FOR GARIN CECCHINI HERE
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by Ben Buchanan on Jan 27, 2012 12:19 PM EST reply actions 8 recs
Tough one for me
but I’m going with Cecchini here.
"There's something out there, beyond the horizon in the corner of your eye. I'm going to find out what it is."
-Thomas Solomon, Gentleman Adventurer.
by TheLoneDavid on Jan 27, 2012 12:27 PM EST up reply actions
I don't view Kalish as a prospect
so he won’t be getting a vote from me unless it’s him vs Iglesias.
"There's something out there, beyond the horizon in the corner of your eye. I'm going to find out what it is."
-Thomas Solomon, Gentleman Adventurer.
by TheLoneDavid on Jan 27, 2012 12:32 PM EST up reply actions
He hasn't gotten enough time at the MLB level to preclude a ROY campaign, right?
I mean, not that he’ll turn it in for 2012, but he’s still eligible, right?
For me, that means he’s still a prospect.
I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.
Wait ’til THIS year!
No, he's no longer a rookie.
"There's something out there, beyond the horizon in the corner of your eye. I'm going to find out what it is."
-Thomas Solomon, Gentleman Adventurer.
by TheLoneDavid on Jan 27, 2012 7:47 PM EST up reply actions
Really?
If you’re right, that would change my opinion on his “prospect” status.
I thought he hadn’t played enough to give up his rookie status.
I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.
Wait ’til THIS year!
Nope, he's no longer a rookie
I think it’s something like 100 PAs.
"There's something out there, beyond the horizon in the corner of your eye. I'm going to find out what it is."
-Thomas Solomon, Gentleman Adventurer.
by TheLoneDavid on Jan 28, 2012 2:40 PM EST up reply actions
re: Rookie Status:
A player shall be considered a rookie unless, during a previous season or seasons, he has (a) exceeded 130 at-bats or 50 innings pitched in the Major Leagues; or (b) accumulated more than 45 days on the active roster of a Major League club or clubs during the period of 25-player limit (excluding time in the military service and time on the disabled list).
But OTM has been clear about granting it for this purpose due to user interest.
Twitter: @Greenlineoutfit
He's included for voting
we don’t have to vote for him.
"There's something out there, beyond the horizon in the corner of your eye. I'm going to find out what it is."
-Thomas Solomon, Gentleman Adventurer.
by TheLoneDavid on Jan 28, 2012 2:51 PM EST up reply actions
Ah... interesting.
Well, my fault. I didn’t think he’d “qualified” for his rookie season yet.
I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.
Wait ’til THIS year!
I like Cecchini a lot.
Think he has a great chance to make it to the majors.
by revived0103 on Jan 27, 2012 12:36 PM EST up reply actions
And his name is just fun to say.
Checcini. CECchini. CeCCHini.
"There's something out there, beyond the horizon in the corner of your eye. I'm going to find out what it is."
-Thomas Solomon, Gentleman Adventurer.
by TheLoneDavid on Jan 27, 2012 12:40 PM EST up reply actions
I thought Se Cheenee
"There's something out there, beyond the horizon in the corner of your eye. I'm going to find out what it is."
-Thomas Solomon, Gentleman Adventurer.
by TheLoneDavid on Jan 27, 2012 7:43 PM EST up reply actions
Indeed!
I actually grabbed that from that prospect website you mentioned to me…not sure if that part of the site is accurate or not.
by The Name is Dalton on Jan 27, 2012 8:19 PM EST up reply actions
The irony! I didn't think they'd have that info.
But yeah, soxprospects rules.
Yeah seems like he can definitely make it up to contribute which will be nice if Middlebrooks doesn't pan out.
Is Cecchini a lefty or a righty?
by The Name is Dalton on Jan 27, 2012 7:01 PM EST up reply actions
Thanks
Good wrap-up on him. I didn’t realize he had been projected as a #1 before his injury. Should be exciting to see him move up. I guess 3B will have plenty of options in a few years looking at that list.
by The Name is Dalton on Jan 27, 2012 7:20 PM EST up reply actions
Cecchini
Good athlete, good defense, good contact skills and a good batter’s eye. Moderate pop at 20, with – I think – a chance to develop maybe 20 HR power. Could see him being the 3B of the future – pushing Bogaerts’ superior bat into right field. Nothing not to love about him or his draft-mate Sean Coyle.
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by nuthinboutnuthin on Jan 27, 2012 12:44 PM EST up reply actions
Also...
… how about that projected Greenville team (per Sox Prospects)? Bogaerts, Cecchini, Bradley, Swihart, Barnes and Owens, plus Perkins and Shaw.
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by nuthinboutnuthin on Jan 27, 2012 1:01 PM EST up reply actions
I would guess Bogaerts starts in Salem...
…but I could see April/May in Greenville and then move to Salem in June.
I also suspect Barnes is on the Ranaudo track and in Salem around midseason, hopefully with better success there than Ranaudo had.
Here’s a Q&A with Ranaudo that I saw today, in case anyone’s interested: http://www.milb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20120112&content_id=26329042&fext=.jsp&vkey=news_milb
He’s living with Britton this offseason.
My vote was for Barnes, btw.
by UltimateCranston on Jan 27, 2012 1:07 PM EST up reply actions
VOTE FOR SEAN COYLE HERE
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by Ben Buchanan on Jan 27, 2012 12:19 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
VOTE FOR RYAN KALISH HERE
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by Ben Buchanan on Jan 27, 2012 12:19 PM EST reply actions 18 recs
Kalish for me.
Debated between him and Iglesias, but Kalish’s bat puts him over the top.
by revived0103 on Jan 27, 2012 12:35 PM EST up reply actions
Had to rec then un-rec...
… since this is going to be his age 24 season. Nevertheless, (a) high quality defense at the corners plus the ability to play center; (b) good baserunning; © decent bat which seems to have a J.D. Drew ceiling. Obviously, the injuries are a concern – hopefully he won’t become another Lowrie, losing years and development to injuries and never quite making it.
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by nuthinboutnuthin on Jan 27, 2012 12:37 PM EST up reply actions
These are the reasons I had to rec him here.
He hasn’t played enough at the Major League level to knock him out of consideration, in my opinion. He still has 5 tool potential, as long as he puts the injuries behind him.
Of course, I love the breakneck speed he plays with, even if it might not be the best for his long-term career. I’d like to see him in RF this summer, and if Boras takes Ells talents to South Beach (with Miami chucking money around the way they have been), then I’d be happy with him in CF and hope Bogaerts is ready for RF by then.
I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.
Wait ’til THIS year!
Though I didn't think Kalish should be included
since he is he goes 4th for me, I think he is more likely to be a regular than Reddick and may even be an above average to all-star player once or twice. More than anybody though, he needs to prove himself this year.
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by Mattsullivan on Jan 27, 2012 12:56 PM EST up reply actions
I'd agree with both points...
… an All-Star once or twice, solid regular everyday player the rest of the time (a la Trot Nixon, with speed rather than power as a weapon), but he needs to stay healthy and contribute this year.
I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.
Wait ’til THIS year!
I think you just want another Trot Nixon.
Just like the rest of us.
Much as I enjoyed Trot
I’d rather have another Drew.
"There's something out there, beyond the horizon in the corner of your eye. I'm going to find out what it is."
-Thomas Solomon, Gentleman Adventurer.
by TheLoneDavid on Jan 27, 2012 8:27 PM EST up reply actions
I've had enough Drew.
Not the most consistent guy offensively year to year.
Though his consistent production has been proved on here statistically over and over again.
2011 was a bad way for him to end his career, but he delivered on his contract in Boston.
Of course, I think I’m required to say that due to my own contractual obligations after begging him to come through in the 2007 ALCS and promising never to say another bad word about him, and then he hit the Grand Slam…
However, in all seriousness, pretty sure consistent production (not glamorous) was what we got from Drew.
I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.
Wait ’til THIS year!
Hah!
Of course, I think I’m required to say that due to my own contractual obligations after begging him to come through in the 2007 ALCS and promising never to say another bad word about him, and then he hit the Grand Slam
I wonder how much of the (IMO well-deserved) Drew love and defense is actually a result of this?
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by nuthinboutnuthin on Jan 28, 2012 3:25 PM EST up reply actions
No, some years he was awesome, others he was merely good.
Big difference.
He was consistently good, then, right?
I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.
Wait ’til THIS year!
He shouldn't be on here, but he is the closest and maybe the best position player on the board.
Rec’d
"Hating the (New York) Yankees is as American as pizza pie, unwed mothers, and cheating on your income tax"
I'm back, that's all, formerly known as Sox-Inda-South!
I'll repeat what I said last year.
Kalish is no longer a prospect.
"Man you are one pathetic loser. No offense." - Lloyd Christmas
2011 Varitek League Champion
by Lloyd Christmas on Jan 27, 2012 7:01 PM EST up reply actions
Kalish is no longer a *rookie*
I’m not clear why he’s no longer a prospect.
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by nuthinboutnuthin on Jan 27, 2012 7:08 PM EST up reply actions
IMO
Once you’ve proven that you can be an ML starter you lose your prospect status.
"There's something out there, beyond the horizon in the corner of your eye. I'm going to find out what it is."
-Thomas Solomon, Gentleman Adventurer.
by TheLoneDavid on Jan 27, 2012 7:46 PM EST up reply actions
I'm surprised he proved he was a starter.
I mean… he started for a team that was completely decimated by injury.
I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.
Wait ’til THIS year!
I thought he played well enough to earn a starting role
his talent isn’t an issue, it’s his health that’s a problem.
"There's something out there, beyond the horizon in the corner of your eye. I'm going to find out what it is."
-Thomas Solomon, Gentleman Adventurer.
by TheLoneDavid on Jan 27, 2012 7:53 PM EST up reply actions
I like Kalish's well-rounded tool set
Not the most powerful or the fastest guy but other than the obvious health questions I don’t really feel like he has some big flaw like a lot of the other guys on this list will have. I still like his ability to become an average RF, maybe a Nick Markakis-type player.
by South Coast Ghost on Jan 27, 2012 8:43 PM EST up reply actions
VOTE FOR ANTHONY RANAUDO HERE
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by Ben Buchanan on Jan 27, 2012 12:19 PM EST reply actions 4 recs
Any chance...
… we can attribute Ranaudos’ nosedive in the scouting community to the corrosive influence of History’s Greatest Monster, Curt Young?
Please?
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by nuthinboutnuthin on Jan 27, 2012 12:49 PM EST up reply actions
Out of this 2nd tier group it comes down to Ranaudo, Igleasias, and Kalish for me.
Cecchini is too much of a projection at this point to leap above those. Kalish needs to come back from injury first, and Iggy needs to just plain hit as he’s not really ready for AAA yet. Ranaudo still is the highest ceiling of these prospects with Josh Beckett-like ace potential.
In the same way Iggy has defensive SS skills now, Ranaudo has a major-league curve already. He needs to work on better fastball location, develop his slider or change as a plus third pitch, and he needs to be stretched out for longer outings, so he’s not more than a AA starter to begin this year. Given his potential, I’m giving him the slightest edge.
I don't know anyone among scouts...
…who still think Ranuado has a Josh Beckett ceiling. I see most saying that solid No. 3 is a 90th percentile projection for him. Hope he proves me wrong in Portland this year.
by UltimateCranston on Jan 27, 2012 1:09 PM EST up reply actions
Ranaudo Q&A Link...
…might be better placed here than where I did above:
http://www.milb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20120112&content_id=26329042&fext=.jsp&vkey=news_milb
by UltimateCranston on Jan 27, 2012 1:12 PM EST up reply actions
Now it gets interesting
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by nuthinboutnuthin on Jan 27, 2012 12:27 PM EST reply actions
Yup.
Looking at four green now and two others with votes.
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by nuthinboutnuthin on Jan 27, 2012 1:17 PM EST up reply actions
This is why I think our system is doing fine.
At this point I would feel comfortable voting for Swihart, Ranuado,Jacobs, Coyle, Cecchini, Brentz or Barnes. Though my rec goes to Kalish, one of these things is not like the others and he’s it. He isn’t a prospect anymore but I don’t believe he himself is injury prone, I think his style of play is (anyone remember that roll a couple years ago?), and I think that can be taught out of him while still making him a good player. He’s at the top of the system and by and large was supposed to be better than Reddick who I feel was undervalued in these parts. He plays good CF caliber defense and his bat has a lot of upside. He gets my vote, we can put him behind us now and start taking a look at all of the high upside talent we have in the lower levels that excite the hell out of me.
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that roll is a huge reason I'm voting for him
by revived0103 on Jan 27, 2012 12:39 PM EST up reply actions
I like the aggressive style.
Even if it hurts his long-term projections… I like guys that play hard.
I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.
Wait ’til THIS year!
I'm excited about the young guys as well
but I hope they realize that we are very pitching thin and draft pitching, pitching and more pitching in this year’s draft
I like the BPA approach
just hope that those BPAs are pitchers.
"There's something out there, beyond the horizon in the corner of your eye. I'm going to find out what it is."
-Thomas Solomon, Gentleman Adventurer.
by TheLoneDavid on Jan 27, 2012 12:44 PM EST up reply actions
No doubt.
I mean, other than Lester and Buchholz, we haven’t developed starting pitching lately. I suppose you could add Bronson Arroyo and Justin Masterson as our system guys that ended up elsewhere…
However, we don’t really seem to have the arms to fill the holes we have in the rotation this year, or anytime in the next several years. Raunado is the closest and still how far away? Barnes is even further…
Wish we had more pitching to develop.
I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.
Wait ’til THIS year!
Well, if by some chance we're 7+ back by the deadline
would you advocate moving Youk and possibly Ellsbury for arms?
"There's something out there, beyond the horizon in the corner of your eye. I'm going to find out what it is."
-Thomas Solomon, Gentleman Adventurer.
by TheLoneDavid on Jan 27, 2012 8:03 PM EST up reply actions
I've been advocating moving Youk for a while.
If we’re out of contention (or even if we’re contending) and can get the right package to move Youk to a team that needs him at first base, I’d be in favor of it.
Though, I am optimistic about his rehab, trimmed down form and energy coming into 2012. If he plays really well at third base, and shows that at a reduced weight he can hold the position until Middlebrooks/Bogaerts is ready, I’d keep him.
I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.
Wait ’til THIS year!
We developed Casey Kelly.
Also, Alex Wilson and Felix Doubront should be on the team this year in some form.
Casey Kelly hasn't made it to the Majors, right?
I’m looking at the results… I mean, Craig Hansen and Michael Bowden were coming too, but never got there.
Wilson and Doubront as starters? That’s really what I’m looking at… we’ve gotten some strong bullpen arms, but not much starting pitching compared to, say, the Rays.
I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.
Wait ’til THIS year!
I thought Alex WIlson was pretty much always going to be a bullpen guy.
"There's something out there, beyond the horizon in the corner of your eye. I'm going to find out what it is."
-Thomas Solomon, Gentleman Adventurer.
by TheLoneDavid on Jan 28, 2012 2:41 PM EST up reply actions
Right, which was my point about developing starting pitching...
… we haven’t seen a starter hit the majors since Buchholz…
Masterson with the Indians… I’m fuzzy on the math, before or after Clay?
I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.
Wait ’til THIS year!
Before
but he was a swingman with us, sort of our Aceves.
"There's something out there, beyond the horizon in the corner of your eye. I'm going to find out what it is."
-Thomas Solomon, Gentleman Adventurer.
by TheLoneDavid on Jan 29, 2012 10:13 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah, forgot him...
… but that goes back to 2007 still, right?
I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.
Wait ’til THIS year!
drafting for need is the stupidest possible thing
to do in MLB draft. It’s not like NFL or NBA draft, also, Sky Andrecheck’s research shows that a pitcher is on average worth 8.5 WAR less over their careers than hitters.
Yep.
Much more volatile/much less projectable.
Never mind that unless you’re talking Harper/Strasburg status prospects, the development period is so long that who know’s what holes you’ll have the major league level by then.
Twitter: @Greenlineoutfit
Well, when you finally decide to open the checkbook and have the #1 overall pick in consecutive years...
… right? That is how they pulled that off, isn’t it?
I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.
Wait ’til THIS year!
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