In Defense of John Lackey
by Matthew Kory on Jan 27, 2012 7:00 AM EST
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It's been almost four months since the hideous ending to the season and, hopefully, that has put a small portion of emotional distance between us and the 2011 Red Sox, enough to be able to start to see some of the players and their actions in a less jaundiced light; enough to begin a civil discussion about one of the more polarizing figures on the team. As you probably gathered from the title, this is a little post about John Lackey.
In preparation for this week's podcast with Chad Finn of the Boston Globe (you can check Episode 37 out here; the parts where Marc and Mr. Finn talk are highly recommended), I listened back to the previous time we were lucky enough to have Mr. Finn on the podcast. That would be Episode 22, which was posted at OTM on September 23, 2011. As you might guess from the date, the dominant topic at the time was the on-going disintegration of the Red Sox.
About eight minutes into the discussion, Marc said (and I'm paraphrasing), "John Lackey had an elbow condition. He was terrible before a cortisone shot on his elbow and was solid afterwards. But the further we get from that shot the worse he is. He probably needs a procedure on that elbow." Then Mr. Finn said (again, paraphrasing), "I think he's pitching through something. I think there is something to Peter Gammons' report that he might need Tommy John surgery. It fits his personality, he's a tough guy. It's one of the reasons why he's still a respected guy in the clubhouse. He's a gamer. I think we'll find out something after the season about him pitching through something he shouldn't have been pitching through."
As it turned out, they were both right.
Lackey did need Tommy John ligament replacement surgery, which he had following the season, and which will keep him out for the duration of the 2012 season. Before I get to my main point though, look at this. Here is how the Red Sox distributed starts to their pitchers during that brutal 7-20 September:
.
Jon Lester ... 6
John Lackey ... 5
Josh Beckett ... 4
Tim Wakefield ... 4
Kyle Weiland ... 3
Erik Bedard ... 3
Andrew Miller ... 2
Lackey was, as we know, horrible during those five starts, lasting less than five innings on average and handing out runs like fliers on a New York street corner. But look again at that list. Other than Jon Lester (who wasn't a whole lot better than Lackey), Lackey is the guy who took the ball the most.
Above, I quoted Mr. Finn calling Lackey a tough guy and a gamer. I don't think John Lackey's reputation in Boston (non-Red Sox clubhouse edition) is that of a tough guy. But is there any tougher thing to do in baseball than that? At the end of a season when his team was falling apart, a historic collapse precipitated by injuries to and under-performance from the pitching staff, in the worst season of his career, and by this point so clearly pitching through an injury that would require major surgery that he could be correctly diagnosed on a podcast, John Lackey took the ball more than any Red Sox starter other than Lester.
You may not like the guy. You may wish he hadn't signed with the Red Sox. The deal certainly hasn't turned out like any of the parties involved wanted it to, so that is certainly a reasonable position to take. But shouldn't John Lackey get credit for toughing it out? John Lackey took one for the team. He gutted and gritted out a season which, outside of his salary, was probably pretty close to as bad a season on all possible fronts as one could go through. Yet he didn't hide and he didn't use injuries as an excuse even though he was suffering from and pitching through one of the worse injuries a pitcher can sustain.
All of that is true, yet nobody calls John Lackey a gamer, says he's gritty, or gutty, or made of Ecksteinium. Instead people say they're glad he got hurt so he won't be on the team this year. The Red Sox starters last season got a lot of flack for supposedly not caring. Say what you want about the man, but John Lackey cared. He cared so much he kept pitching even though his elbow was shredded because his team didn't have any other options and needed him to. Shouldn't John Lackey get credit for that?
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He was also largely unlucky.
Ok, he didn’t pitch well, as his 6.41 ERA shows but his FIP and xFIP of 4.71 and 4.70 show he didn’t actually pitch the worst season in the history of the team either, although that’s what the results show. His FIP was actually better than a former prospective member of the 2012 Red Sox, Joe Saunders (4.78).
There's reason to believe Saunders does things that escape FIP
He has a over a dozen more double plays than expected over the last four years compared to the next guy in line, for instance. Half-a-dozen double plays above the expected rate a year is a few tenths of a run of ERA, and his career ERA is ~ 0.5 better than his FIP.
I really think he’s one of those guys FIP doesn’t work exactly for. He’s no Matt Cain in his results or anything, but they have that much in common.
Twitter: @Marc_Normandin
by Marc Normandin on Jan 27, 2012 8:17 AM EST up reply actions
I wasn't having a go at Joe Saunders...
…or those who were in favour of signing him. I was merely pointing out that John Lackey might not have got the results his performances deserved last year.
No, I know
I’m just pointing out that his FIP might not be the best point of comparison.
Twitter: @Marc_Normandin
by Marc Normandin on Jan 27, 2012 8:50 AM EST up reply actions
Will be interesting to see the responses.
I’ve seen straw arguments as far ranging as “he tried to pitch through, concealing the injury from the team, so that his option would not activate and in doing so, prevented the FO from acquiring another starter.”
He might be overpaid, possibly a jerk, but he doesn’t get the credit he deserves for gutting it out.
Twitter: @Greenlineoutfit
It's funny the assumption by some is he was hiding it
Since he had a cortisone shot and an MRI at the beginning of the year. And one before he even signed. Things happen, bodies don’t remain in a constant state.
Twitter: @Marc_Normandin
by Marc Normandin on Jan 27, 2012 9:00 AM EST up reply actions
Gammons said in August that the club knew Lackey needed TJ
Lackey and Tito both reacted like ass holes when they were asked about it.
Lackey can go to hell
The 2011 Over the Monster Gedman League Fantasy Baseball Champion
I hate free agency
Taking Issue with this Idea
I have a real problem with the idea that he toughed it out and helped the team. You made a case the other way in your own statement: " horrible during those five starts, lasting less than five innings on average and handing out runs like fliers on a New York street corner"
Is that really helping the team out? Putting further strain on an already taxed bullpen by not being able to even go 5 innings, giving up plenty of runs to mean the team has to score in bunches at a time when the offense had become highly inconsistent. While I’m not sure giving those starts to anyone else on that list would have been much better….I’m not sure how much worse it could have been?
This
I’m not sure giving those starts to anyone else on that list would have been much better
says it all. If the team felt better about anyone else/didn’t value his innings down the stretch (as limited as they were), they would have shut him down.
Twitter: @Greenlineoutfit
I’m not trying to make the case Lackey did (or didn’t do) the right thing. Certainly his results were putrid. But I don’t think you can look at those results and say he shouldn’t have been on the mound. I’d liken that line of criticism to saying a model of car was bad before it was built.
Writer at Over The Monster. Follow me on Twitter! It'll be super awesome fun! @mattymatty2000
by Matthew Kory on Jan 27, 2012 12:06 PM EST up reply actions
The better answer is probably somewhere in the middle…not that he shouldn’t have started at all, but maybe not been run out there 5 times in a Month when he was obviously struggling and injured?
Obviously struggling.
The injury was equally obvious?
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
OTM | Silver Seven
An Injury
Lets see….
We knew he’d gone for MRI’s on his elbow/shoulder
We knew he’d had at least 1 cortisone shot
We knew he’d lost effectiveness as the time from shot increased
I would take from that, we can strongly assume he’s injured, not necessarily how serious, wouldn’t you agree?
Logic would say, we can assume he’s struggling because he’s injured…but without knowing how bad, we don’t know if Rest (skipping a start or 2) would help, but it certainly couldn’t hurt?
I think Lackey gets more crap than he deserves
and he was very unlucky last year, but he isn’t seen as a gamer for a good reason. He whines on the mound and whines after his starts. I can respect that he is an emotional guy, but he would get more respect for playing through adversity if he wasn’t up there screaming at his defense and cursing up a David Mamet monologue
- Matt Sullivan
"I would change policy, bring back natural grass and nickel beer. Baseball is the belly-button of our society. Straighten out baseball, and you straighten out the rest of the world." Bill "Spaceman" Lee
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The whining
The whining on the mound, in large part, seemed to be directed at himself or umpires. Occassionally, it was a bad play by a fielder, but that seemed to be pretty rare. More often than not, he seemed to be upset at himself.
The whining to the media after the game, I totally understand. I can’t stand the media. I would kick Pete Abraham in the stones.
A tougher man admits his issues
It would’ve helped the team more for him to admit he couldn’t do it, and give them the opportunity to find an answer while you get the help you need sooner. Admitting the truth about where you are is most times harder than dancing around the issues and acting like everything is ok, when it was obvious to just about everyone something was not right. With the personal issues, and the pain, he was in no mental or physical state to be taking the ball. Man-ing up to the truth, in my opinion takes more guts, and shows more of a team player dynamic, and is more admirable in the end. To me that would’ve shown more integrity. Yes it would’ve sucked to watch the team move on without you- but it would’ve been the right thing to do. The boxer that keeps going out round after round, taking a hellacious beating, at first looks courageous- then gutsy, but then there comes a point where it just becomes sad and pitiful.
By the later half of the year,
the FO knew what they were going to get from Lackey. They knew that he was injured (as he was injured when they signed him, not to mention the MRI to start the season that Marc acknowledged), and preferred it to the alternative.
They could have sat him at any time, but instead asked him to pitch.
And yet it’s his fault?
Twitter: @Greenlineoutfit
not saying it's completely his fault
but continuing to pitch WAS not in his best interests or the teams. Mutual blame should be spread, but he could’ve made a stronger case that something wasn’t right- and if the FO continued to put pressure on him to pitch- then he certainly would have a beef against the medical staff and FO.
Were you present for discussions between Lackey, the FO, and the medical staff?
but he could’ve made a stronger case that something wasn’t right
Cause I wouldn’t hedge your case on a wild assumption.
Twitter: @Greenlineoutfit
And you assume they "asked him to pitch"?
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
OTM | Silver Seven
umm ... that seems like a safe assumption
since that’s how the relationship usually works between employer and employee.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.
by mmmmm on Jan 27, 2012 3:55 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
He has an automatic spot in the rotation
He pitches every 5 times unless given specific reason not to do so.
It’s not like on Day 5 they sat down with him and said, “Can you go pitch now, please?”.
I have a job…they don’t ask me to go to work.
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
OTM | Silver Seven
It's implicit (or maybe even explicit) in the contract.
We will pay you to do X.
or
If you do X we will pay you.
Either way of expressing it is equivalent to being asked to do X in return for $.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.
And he gets paid if he doesn't pitch
unless expressed directly in the contract (pre-existing condition, etc).
It was originally implied that the Sox could have sat him, but they marched him out on the mound anyhow.
What I’m saying is that no one was marched out onto the mound. Lackey’s turn came around and out he went.
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
OTM | Silver Seven
out he went ... wasn't that his job to do?
NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.
I do believe
That was the point Bloggy was trying to make :)
by Rick Bentsen on Jan 27, 2012 8:13 PM EST up reply actions
THANK YOU
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
OTM | Silver Seven
Unless they asked/told him NOT to pitch.
They effectively asked him to pitch. It didn’t have to be verbalized.
Twitter: @Greenlineoutfit
I think it's entirely on the Front Office
They must have known. Peter Gammons knew back in the summer, and he had to have gotten it from somewhere (even though at the time we all thought he was senile). My guess is that they either didn’t know the extent of the injury, or believed Lackey when he said he’d pitch through it.
Now knowing that both Lackey and Buchholz were seriously injured BEFORE the trade deadline, however, it really reflects poorly on the FO’s decision not to pick up an additional depth starter at the deadline, or at least retain Kevin Millwood.
Lackey, and most baseball players, will try to play through injuries because they’re stupid and honorable and all those other adjectives. But it’s the job of the FO to know better.
another example of Gammons being ahead of the curve
and many people saying otherwise.
Gammons is right on about 98% of the time. People like to say he is old and out of his mind, but he is almost always correct.
The 2011 Over the Monster Gedman League Fantasy Baseball Champion
I hate free agency
Gammons is, in fact, a sharp cookie
I tend to take what he says seriously with regards to our beloved Red Sox because, as Sandy just pointed out, he tends to be right on most of the time.
by Rick Bentsen on Jan 27, 2012 4:14 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, exactly this.
Next question, for fun… was it all about money? We’ve discussed before, but losing Dice K to Tommy John offered no relief against the salary cap, and in part, replacing players lost to injury must be how we moved from $164 million on Opening Day to going over the tax in 2011.
However, consider this… by the time Gammons commented that Tommy John was likely needed for Lackey, they had already lost their #5 starter to Tommy John, and their #3 starter hadn’t pitched in months with stress fractures in his back (or am I remembering the specific injury wrong). Imagine them actually having to address losing a third SP for the season, essentially, by sending Lackey in for the Tommy John.
Also, recovery from the surgery is 12 months, or more, right? So perhaps by the time they decided it was necessary, it was too late to get it done and get him back in 2012. Perhaps the doctors said he wouldn’t do more damage continuing to pitch, and the FO/ownership looked at throwing him out there as a cost saving measure (rather than paying the price in prospects and salary to trade for another SP at the deadline).
I mean, that seems like a waste, but at the deadline, we were in the hunt for the division, and without a 7-20 September, we would likely have gone into the playoffs with Lester/Beckett/Bedard as the rotation. Hindsight is 20/20, but maybe the FO believed we’d get to the playoffs, and ride those three to a World Series?
I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.
Wait ’til THIS year!
rec'd for being refreshing!
He’s probably been injured since he signed on with the Sox.
Thanks!
Writer at Over The Monster. Follow me on Twitter! It'll be super awesome fun! @mattymatty2000
by Matthew Kory on Jan 27, 2012 12:07 PM EST up reply actions
I don't like him.
That’s all.
The rest of the stuff might be true.
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
OTM | Silver Seven
+1
John Lackey was a terrible, misguided signing. The best Lackey moment was the hour-long interval between when we signed him and when we found out the length and cost of the deal. That hour was marked by the ongoing descent into weeping, teeth-gnashing insanity of Angels’ fans. Then we heard 5 years/$ 82.5MM plus the privilege of employing him for another year for next to nothing if he’s terrible. At once, the Angels’ fans malady was cured and Red Sox fans threw up in their mouths. Nearly every second of Lackey’s tenure since has described a downward arc into overpriced mediocre douchosity. He’s a sullen a-hole and – newsflash to no one but Theo Epstein – he’s just not that good when you consider what we’re paying for the privilege of watching him give up hard contact and blame Marco Scutaro for it, somehow. The fact that he’s injured just makes me like him even less – much like the fact that I can’t look at him without imagining Matt Holliday in left field instead.
The Year of Extreme Opinions
BLAAAAAAARGH OMFG SIGN STARTERS!!
I apologize if this post has offended you in any way. Please retroactively ignore it. Thank you for your consideration.
by nuthinboutnuthin on Jan 27, 2012 12:01 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
It doesn't make sense that they didn't have enough for Holliday.
by revived0103 on Jan 27, 2012 12:26 PM EST up reply actions
I wish to hug you.
Instead, I shall merely recommend your comment and give you my thanks.
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
OTM | Silver Seven
Theo knew
he was sabotaging the Red Sox so he could walk out of there like an action hero right before a building explodes.
"There's something out there, beyond the horizon in the corner of your eye. I'm going to find out what it is."
-Thomas Solomon, Gentleman Adventurer.
by TheLoneDavid on Jan 27, 2012 12:35 PM EST up reply actions
Heh.
The Year of Extreme Opinions
BLAAAAAAARGH OMFG SIGN STARTERS!!
I apologize if this post has offended you in any way. Please retroactively ignore it. Thank you for your consideration.
by nuthinboutnuthin on Jan 27, 2012 12:52 PM EST up reply actions
In the end he probably deserves some credit for gutting it out.
but with both of the team and him being cryptic about how much they knew of his elbow and when they knew it, it is almost impossible for us to tell how much. To be perfectly honest, the team should’ve (and I’m not saying they didn’t) done a full diagnosis with Yocum on his arm in May when he had inflammation that required a cortisone shot after 40 innings of regular season pitching.
Instead of Theo going, “Well, I think every pitcher has some sort of tear in his arm. We’ll monitor it closely” When closely for them could be “Hey John, is your arm still attached? Yeah? O.K. let me know if you can’t lift it to brush your teeth” He most likely should’ve been shut down early so that they had more time to go get someone…but he wasn’t and by the time the shot fully wore off they had no other real options outside of Brandon Duckworth for crying out loud. I tend to put that as much on the medical staff as on him but he is not absolved of blame. It’s not like it’s the first time they’ve sent someone out there who needed more injury recovery time or had injuries more serious then they were able to diagnose. Lowrie, Ells, Cameron, ret It’s a big reason why some of the med. staff were kicked to the curb.
by The Name is Dalton on Jan 27, 2012 11:46 AM EST reply actions
Isn't it On Record
that the FO asked him to get TJ surgery some time before the All-Star break and he refused?
I repeatedly have to remind myself that most professional athletes are not as smart or self-aware as I want to believe – a cultural reality for which I by no means blame the athletes themselves. But to apply everything we know about Lackey – or partly know and partly assume based on his actions and words – it is very reasonable to wonder if his decision was based more on not wanting to add that minimum salary year than wanting to help his team. If he’d had the surgery when he was first asked, we have to think the FO would have more aggressively pursued an in-season replacement.
No, they’re not innocent either. I’ll grant Lackey a very small amount of respect for pitching through the injury. But players are responsible for their own pig-headedness as much as managers and the FO. When Youk and Pedroia are asked to sit out a game, they yell and complain but finally sit. Lackey went against the wishes of the FO and medical staff, and I don’t think that deserves more respect than disdain.
I don't know about statements directly from the Front Office
But if you believe Silverman’s “Sources” than they tried to convince him in April to get the surgery and he refused. Which doesn’t speak well for either of them to me. If it’s true, then I don’t give him credit for grittiness because I wouldn’t believe for a second at that point he was doing it for anything other than his contract. At the same time, if the Sox knew he would need it and just agreed to shoot him up when it became in issue after a month and a half, they should’ve shut him down.
But again, I don’t know if it is reliable news or not. This whole situation stinks of a fermented turd.
by The Name is Dalton on Jan 27, 2012 11:57 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah, if this is true...
I rescind my earlier comment about the FO wanting to save money, and wonder whether it was really just about the money to John.
Who knows, at this point.
I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.
Wait ’til THIS year!
Theo
Lackey’s always been a tough, give me the damn ball pitcher! You want to talk about bad signings, there was none worse the JD Drew who got $70 million for a grand slam against Cleveland in the AL Championship Series in 2007! If Theo knew Lackey had arm issues before the signing, shame on him. But I for one do not question this guy’s integrity and expect he will come back and earn every dollar of that contract, either in a Sox uniform or in another, still paid by the Sox, if we give up on him too soon. I think Ben is smarter than Theo though. He would never have signed DL Drew and will give John his opportunity to come back.
Get. Out.
"There's something out there, beyond the horizon in the corner of your eye. I'm going to find out what it is."
-Thomas Solomon, Gentleman Adventurer.
by TheLoneDavid on Jan 27, 2012 1:12 PM EST up reply actions
If I had to choose between Drew and Lackey
I’d choose Drew. Over the course of his contract, save for last year, he was one of our more dependable hitters. Not overly powerful. But he’s been clutch when we’ve needed him to be. Lackey just hasn’t been the Lackey he was in Anaheim. He has been injured and I know he wasn’t mentally with it with the divorce stuff last year. But he has just been bad. Drew was good for us for most of his contract.
by Rick Bentsen on Jan 27, 2012 2:13 PM EST up reply actions
I believe this merits a...
The Year of Extreme Opinions
BLAAAAAAARGH OMFG SIGN STARTERS!!
I apologize if this post has offended you in any way. Please retroactively ignore it. Thank you for your consideration.
by nuthinboutnuthin on Jan 27, 2012 2:29 PM EST up reply actions
I have a tough, give-me-the-damn-ball pitcher in my pants!
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
OTM | Silver Seven
Ha!
"There's something out there, beyond the horizon in the corner of your eye. I'm going to find out what it is."
-Thomas Solomon, Gentleman Adventurer.
by TheLoneDavid on Jan 27, 2012 8:19 PM EST up reply actions
Have you ever had a Cement Mixer?
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
OTM | Silver Seven
I have not.
"There's something out there, beyond the horizon in the corner of your eye. I'm going to find out what it is."
-Thomas Solomon, Gentleman Adventurer.
by TheLoneDavid on Jan 27, 2012 8:41 PM EST up reply actions
Irish Cream and Lime bar mix.
shot of each in your mouth…shake your head back and forth.
GRITTY.
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
OTM | Silver Seven
Yeah those 2 seasons following that slam
really were awful, the shame on the man for taking the Red Sox money whilst putting up back-to-back 4+ WAR seasons with a near 0.400 OBP and stellar RF defense
by BobZupcic on Jan 27, 2012 3:23 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
The nerve of the guy...
Sorry his last season with us was so bad because of the injuries.
by Rick Bentsen on Jan 27, 2012 3:44 PM EST up reply actions
so bad
yes too bad he missed out at the end of the season run at the playoffs as he blew out his pinky in a rehab game in Pawtucket in his last at-bat. Guess he swung the bat just a bit too hard. Darn!!! Youk playing with his maladies, JD on the shelf with a bad digit.
Um...watch this:
J.D. Drew from 2007 – 2010 Games played:
140
109
137
139
Kevin Youkilis 2007 – 2010 Games played:
145
145
136
102
Notice anything? Kinda the same.
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
OTM | Silver Seven
Youkilis:
Youkilis:
625
621
588
435
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
OTM | Silver Seven
by Bloggy on Jan 27, 2012 9:55 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Drew
552
456
539
546
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
OTM | Silver Seven
by Bloggy on Jan 27, 2012 9:56 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Youk bat higher in the line up.
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
OTM | Silver Seven
by Bloggy on Jan 27, 2012 9:56 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
huh?
Not at least until 2008 when Manny was traded and Youk took the cleanup spot. When JD was signed he was penciled in at #5 and Youk was at #7. Regardless we all know Drew missed games with hangnails. Did it his entire career.
by Harryaz on Jan 28, 2012 9:50 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
Genius.
Your point is that JD Drew constantly came off the bench for the entirety of his tenure with the Red Sox because he had hangnails, rather than the fact that he spent much of his tenure hitting 8th or 9th.
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
OTM | Silver Seven
Drew only batted 8th/9th in 6% of his PAs
with the Red Sox, 125 at 8th, 14 at 9th. The majority of which were in 2011 (80 PAs).
Twitter: @Greenlineoutfit
So, again
you say that Drew was in almost the exact same number of games as Youkilis, but that in a huge percentage of them…enough to label him as soft…he came off the bench.
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
OTM | Silver Seven
I'm saying that
the fact that he spent much of his tenure hitting 8th or 9th.
is false.
Twitter: @Greenlineoutfit
Got my dudes mixed up. Sorry.
Should have read who was commenting.
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
OTM | Silver Seven
And, for the record
it seemed like more than that.
Although, he did almost always hit lower than Youk.
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
OTM | Silver Seven
I think he was #7 for a long time.
"There's something out there, beyond the horizon in the corner of your eye. I'm going to find out what it is."
-Thomas Solomon, Gentleman Adventurer.
by TheLoneDavid on Jan 29, 2012 5:10 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed.
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
OTM | Silver Seven
In 2010
He actually had the highest number at #2(160) and the second highest at #6. Without doing the math it looks like his most common spot was #6 while he was here. He came in as a sub 11 times in 2009, 11 in 2010 and 16 games a sub this year. Youk came in as a sub 4 times in those three years.
Either way, both points have a little validity but need to be put into perspective. JD Drew does take more time off than Youk, but he isn’t as “soft” as Harryaz makes him out to be. It’s also important to remember that for two of those years JD Drew played RF, a much more physically demanding position than 1B.
In the end, JD Drew provided a lot of value while he was here. Anyone who says that he didn’t probably should be on WEEI calling into Ordway.
by The Name is Dalton on Jan 29, 2012 5:45 PM EST up reply actions
Ug...
I meant to say that for two of those years Youk played 1B, which is much less physically demanding. Drew was in RF for all three of course.
by The Name is Dalton on Jan 29, 2012 5:46 PM EST up reply actions
Totally apart from
whatever Youk/Drew discussion is going on.
Drew actually hit higher up than memory serves, mine as well.
PAs:
5th: 27.2%
6th: 24.8%
7th: 11.3%
Twitter: @Greenlineoutfit
Weird.
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
OTM | Silver Seven
Yeah
Remember with Pedey’s injury, Ellsbury’s injury, Youk’s, etc in the last couple of years we’ve had guys like D-Mac, Nick Green, Bill Hall, Daniel Nava getting more at-bats then they would and SS and C have pretty much always been hitting behind him except for V-Mart
by The Name is Dalton on Jan 29, 2012 7:39 PM EST up reply actions
pre and post slam
Spoken like a true moneyball protege. Wonder why Billy Beane never went after Drew?? Perhaps it was because his other OBP On the Bench Percentage was too high??? Stellar defense? Compared to who? He did the job out there. No Dewey Evans by any means!
Scatter everyone!
An expert!!
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
OTM | Silver Seven
No, you're right.
I never played the game. That has to do with my observation… how exactly?
I repeat. You’re an idiot
Author, Dawn of a New Age and The Blademaster
CO, USS Callisto
Avid Red Sox fan :)
by Rick Bentsen on Jan 28, 2012 7:15 PM EST up reply actions
Sorry, folks. I couldn't help it
Drew wasn’t GREAT. But he was consistent with above average defense in RF… right up until he got injured. We certainly have gotten more of our money’s worth out of Drew than we have Lackey.
by Rick Bentsen on Jan 27, 2012 8:37 PM EST up reply actions
Drew had a really good OBP (on base percentage)
but his GPI2 (grit-per-square-inch) was a bit lacking.
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
OTM | Silver Seven
Ha ha ha!
I have to admit… he’s not my kind of player, but I’ll take a grand slam for the opportunity to play in a World Series, which we won for those who have forgotten, for $70 million any day.
I warmed up to Drew after 2007, when I started to recognize the arm on the throw from RF, the OBP, the discipline he applied when in the batter’s box.
But, again, I think there are a lot of fans of other teams out there that would be happy to pay a guy $70 million for that grand slam, if they got to hang a banner after it.
I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.
Wait ’til THIS year!
I wasn't a huge fan of the Drew signing, either.
And I was really hard on him that first year. But then he hit that grand slam. And then he played really well the next couple years, even carrying the whole team on occasion. I like the “business man approach”. Who cares if he doesn’t howl at the moon? I warmed up to him a good deal.
He wasn’t worth his contract…but he was pretty close the first 4 years.
And as for being “soft”…the guy punched out a @#$%ing alligator. What do people want??
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
OTM | Silver Seven
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by TheLoneDavid on Jan 27, 2012 8:43 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
wow, a new idiot
The 2011 Over the Monster Gedman League Fantasy Baseball Champion
I hate free agency
Look, Drew played enough to be a huge contributor.
He was pretty good his first year, awesome the next two years, pretty good his 4th year, and terrible his last year. It seems like he’s injured more than he is because he misses one or two games a lot with little stuff.
The biggest irony about Lackey's last 5 starts in the infamous september swoon
is that in reality, how he pitched in them barely had any affect on the outcome.
We lost the first three of those starts. In those three, Lackey gave up 6, 5 & 2 runs in 5, 3 and 5.1 innings. Unfortunately, in all three our offense stalled, scoring just 4, 2 & 4 runs and in the 3rd the bullpen blew the lead. So he was mediocre in the first, terrible in the 2nd and pretty good in the 3rd. The team lost all three regardless.
In the last two games of the 5, Lackey’s pitching was pretty much irrelevant. He was terrible in one, giving up 8 runs in 8.1 innings – but our offense erupted for 18 runs! In the last game, he again pitched ‘meh’, giving up 4 runs in 5 innings – our offense posted 7 runs.
So Lackey was sorta up and down between ‘ok’ and ‘horrendous’ and the team W-L column doesn’t really track his performance in those games. It does, however, track our offense closely. We lost the three games we scored 4 or less. We won the two games we scored 7 or more.
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