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Yes, but this was out of left-field, no?

I didn’t remember hearing the Tigers were a potential landing spot for him.

Is this to help convince Oswalt to join their rotation, or does this mean no money is left for Oswalt either?

I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.

Wait ’til THIS year!

by AlohaSox on Jan 24, 2012 3:46 PM EST up reply actions  

Victor got hurt

The 2011 Over the Monster Gedman League Fantasy Baseball Champion

I hate free agency

by gizmosandy on Jan 24, 2012 3:51 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, I see the need they are filling...

… just thinking beyond 2012 too.

I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.

Wait ’til THIS year!

by AlohaSox on Jan 24, 2012 3:52 PM EST up reply actions  

WOW

So much for Boras getting shut out this off season.

by CSimp on Jan 24, 2012 3:24 PM EST reply actions  

Cabrera/Fielder

is an amazing combo

The 2011 Over the Monster Gedman League Fantasy Baseball Champion

I hate free agency

by gizmosandy on Jan 24, 2012 3:25 PM EST reply actions  

Yep, at the plate

in the field they will be amazingly awful

by BobZupcic on Jan 24, 2012 3:26 PM EST up reply actions  

true

but I think Cabrera is the best current hitter in MLB so this will make him even better, which is scary.

The 2011 Over the Monster Gedman League Fantasy Baseball Champion

I hate free agency

by gizmosandy on Jan 24, 2012 3:28 PM EST up reply actions  

Ha ha ha!

Wow… right… this puts Cabrera back at 3B, or is one the DH?

I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.

Wait ’til THIS year!

by AlohaSox on Jan 24, 2012 3:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Guess one will DH most of 2012

But something’s got to give in 2013 with Victor and then you’ve got Peralta who was on 3B and will have to go back to SS?? where he kinda sucks

by BobZupcic on Jan 24, 2012 3:50 PM EST up reply actions  

I could see the Red Sox trying to get Peralta

The 2011 Over the Monster Gedman League Fantasy Baseball Champion

I hate free agency

by gizmosandy on Jan 24, 2012 3:51 PM EST up reply actions  

For 3B?

I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.

Wait ’til THIS year!

by AlohaSox on Jan 24, 2012 3:52 PM EST up reply actions  

SS

bad move, but still

The 2011 Over the Monster Gedman League Fantasy Baseball Champion

I hate free agency

by gizmosandy on Jan 24, 2012 3:54 PM EST up reply actions  

Well, they trade Victor, right?

I mean, you can’t keep all three in 2013?

I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.

Wait ’til THIS year!

by AlohaSox on Jan 24, 2012 3:51 PM EST up reply actions  

It took me a minute to realize this was one letter off from being perfect English.

I thought you were making a funny.

However, VMart is a fairly established commodity, and it’s not like the torn ACL is going to make him slower than he was, right? So… someone would probably like that bat in their line up.

I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.

Wait ’til THIS year!

by AlohaSox on Jan 25, 2012 12:05 AM EST up reply actions  

I'm sure someone will take him

just not sure that, coming off a non-playing year, anyone is going to be anxious to pay anything close to $25 million over 2 years for him

by wolf9309 on Jan 25, 2012 9:28 AM EST up reply actions  

So... wow, that's going to be fun.

As has been said throughout, they’ll have three catchers and six DHs.

I mean, in 2013, this is their defense, as currently constructed?

C Avila/Martinez
1B Fielder/Martinez/Cabrera
2B Santiago
SS Peralta
3B Cabrera/Inge
LF Rayburn/Young
CF Jackson
RF Boesch/Dirks
DH Cabrera/Fielder/Martinez/Peralta/Young/Inge/Boesch

Right??

I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.

Wait ’til THIS year!

by AlohaSox on Jan 25, 2012 3:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Cabrera to DH

The 2011 Over the Monster Gedman League Fantasy Baseball Champion

I hate free agency

by gizmosandy on Jan 24, 2012 3:51 PM EST up reply actions  

Uh, no

Prince to DH, Cabby’s fairly decent there.

"There's something out there, beyond the horizon in the corner of your eye. I'm going to find out what it is."
-Thomas Solomon, Gentleman Adventurer.

by TheLoneDavid on Jan 24, 2012 4:44 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm on BYB right now

Cabs to 3B, Prince to 1B, Delmon possibly the DH.

"There's something out there, beyond the horizon in the corner of your eye. I'm going to find out what it is."
-Thomas Solomon, Gentleman Adventurer.

by TheLoneDavid on Jan 24, 2012 4:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Apparently

At least he can actually field that position.

"There's something out there, beyond the horizon in the corner of your eye. I'm going to find out what it is."
-Thomas Solomon, Gentleman Adventurer.

by TheLoneDavid on Jan 24, 2012 5:13 PM EST up reply actions  

I was going to say

That not from what I’ve read before… But according the Fangraphs they’re pretty much both equally bad

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by brogshan on Jan 24, 2012 8:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Dombrowski had already turned Fielder down, too

http://www.mlive.com/tigers/index.ssf/2012/01/detroit_tigers_gm_dave_dombrow.html

“I would just say that the fit is really not there at this point.” – Dombrowski on Thursday

by dennet on Jan 24, 2012 3:43 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Fair point.

But Oswalt’s agent is not Scott Boras.

by aubatron2011 on Jan 24, 2012 3:51 PM EST up reply actions  

very true

in fact, he’s so not-Scott-Boras that they apparently called the Reds and got rejected there. Not sure what the plan is.

by dennet on Jan 24, 2012 5:07 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

to the media

which doesn’t mean he said that to Boras’ face.

If Oswalt, who is supposedly being very picky about where he wants to pitch, wanted to gain leverage with them, he would’ve said “I have other offers that are more enticing” rather than “I don’t want to pitch in your city”

by wolf9309 on Jan 24, 2012 4:03 PM EST up reply actions  

hypotheticals about what X "really" said

are certainly possible, but carry less weight than actual reports.

by dennet on Jan 24, 2012 4:19 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

On Oswalt, I hear the Tigers were very interested (even had Verlander call him), but he didn’t want to go to Detroit.

doesn’t sound too hypothetical

by wolf9309 on Jan 24, 2012 4:22 PM EST up reply actions  

and he whiffs

the hypothetical we were discussing was that idea that Dombrowski was put up a front to the media on Prince Fielder. No one was saying Oswalt’s rejection of the Tigers was hypothetical.

oops!

But this goes to my point. The rejections themselves may be very, very non-hypothetical. But people change their position as circumstances change. It’s hard to reverse yourself and maintain credibility, but it happens, with Dombrowski as exhibit A.

by dennet on Jan 24, 2012 5:03 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Four days later? Perfect fit!

Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.

@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
OTM | Silver Seven

by Bloggy on Jan 24, 2012 5:35 PM EST up reply actions  

I was wondering myself, though, whether this offense might entice Oswalt to reconsider.

I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.

Wait ’til THIS year!

by AlohaSox on Jan 24, 2012 3:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Uhhhh what is happening this offseason

Follow me on twitter @nyybrandonc

Co-Manager/Writer for Pinstripe Alley, Editor/Writer for Blueshirt Banter

by Brandon C. on Jan 24, 2012 3:31 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

Dunno, but we now have both Fielder and Pujols in the AL

imagine the battle for the AS slot

Fielder, Pujols, Gonzalez, Tex

by BobZupcic on Jan 24, 2012 3:33 PM EST reply actions  

Does Cabrera move back to 3B or does one play DH?

I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.

Wait ’til THIS year!

by AlohaSox on Jan 24, 2012 3:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Until Martinez is back

They probably will have Cabrera DH. After that…

by Fromalabama on Jan 24, 2012 3:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Details to follow, i guess

Either way, they’re going to end up paying a DH waaaaaaaaaay too much money. I hope this doesn’t aid Ortiz’ arbitration case.

by steel sox on Jan 24, 2012 3:50 PM EST up reply actions  

They'll be paying a DH

over 20 million well into his late 30’s. Hope Fielder’s body type holds up, his dad took a nose-dive at about age 32

by BobZupcic on Jan 24, 2012 3:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, which should have been something the Tigers were familiar with, no?

I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.

Wait ’til THIS year!

by AlohaSox on Jan 24, 2012 3:53 PM EST up reply actions  

6 years away though right?

The 2011 Over the Monster Gedman League Fantasy Baseball Champion

I hate free agency

by gizmosandy on Jan 24, 2012 3:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Hadn't even considered that...

I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.

Wait ’til THIS year!

by AlohaSox on Jan 24, 2012 3:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Boras is so good at his job

The 2011 Over the Monster Gedman League Fantasy Baseball Champion

I hate free agency

by gizmosandy on Jan 24, 2012 3:34 PM EST reply actions  

I don't get it. But, yeah...wow.

Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.

@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
OTM | Silver Seven

by Bloggy on Jan 24, 2012 5:39 PM EST up reply actions  

He's frustrating.

And? Evil.

Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.

@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
OTM | Silver Seven

by Bloggy on Jan 24, 2012 5:42 PM EST up reply actions  

Easier than hating...

… your team; your team’s overpaid free agent signing (John Lackey excluded*); or your former young, good player who your team suddenly couldn’t afford.

I dunno, I’ve never really had a problem with people who make money off other people’s stupidity. Then again, I am a lawyer.

————
* – not actually a Boras client, but still easy to hate.

The Year of Extreme Opinions
BLAAAAAAARGH OMFG SIGN STARTERS!!
I apologize if this post has offended you in any way. Please retroactively ignore it. Thank you for your consideration.

by nuthinboutnuthin on Jan 24, 2012 5:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Plus...I've decided to blame him for ruining Manny.

Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.

@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
OTM | Silver Seven

by Bloggy on Jan 24, 2012 6:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Clearly...

… as we all know, Manny only started using PEDs when he got to L.A.

The Year of Extreme Opinions
BLAAAAAAARGH OMFG SIGN STARTERS!!
I apologize if this post has offended you in any way. Please retroactively ignore it. Thank you for your consideration.

by nuthinboutnuthin on Jan 24, 2012 6:12 PM EST up reply actions  

BECAUSE SCOTT BORAS HYPNOTIZED HIM INTO DOING IT.

Just like he hypnotizes GMs into paying WAY more than they want.

Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.

@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
OTM | Silver Seven

by Bloggy on Jan 24, 2012 6:25 PM EST up reply actions  

There is substantial evidence to support this.

The Year of Extreme Opinions
BLAAAAAAARGH OMFG SIGN STARTERS!!
I apologize if this post has offended you in any way. Please retroactively ignore it. Thank you for your consideration.

by nuthinboutnuthin on Jan 24, 2012 6:35 PM EST up reply actions  

Jedi...

I am Sandy's bitch.

Joseph Vincent Paterno 12/21/26 - 1/22/12 RIP Coach
Penn State Forever

by Rogue Nine on Jan 24, 2012 6:51 PM EST up reply actions  

I wouldn't be surprised

If Manny just eats, drinks or injects anything that someone hands him. Food, pesticides, steroids, whatever.

Everything Must Go.

by Sean O on Jan 24, 2012 7:02 PM EST up reply actions  

It would explain the female fertility drugs

The Year of Extreme Opinions
BLAAAAAAARGH OMFG SIGN STARTERS!!
I apologize if this post has offended you in any way. Please retroactively ignore it. Thank you for your consideration.

by nuthinboutnuthin on Jan 24, 2012 7:16 PM EST up reply actions  

And our 2008 World Series...

Seriously, if Boras doesn’t suggest to Manny that he act up a little (anyone doubt that he did), to make sure that Boston didn’t pick up Manny’s option(s) at the end of the season, I don’t think Manny pulls the stunts he did that summer.

What Boras failed to consider is that Manny doesn’t really know how to act up, and took it too far. Hence the rumor that after the Dodgers deal was announced, Boras called Theo and begged him to kill the deal. Promised that Manny would be a good soldier the rest of the season (assuming, of course, that Boras could just tell Manny it was time to look good, for the potential offseason suitors).

Boras knew that Manny was more likely to have a stronger finish in Boston than he was in Dodger Stadium, and our team would have been stronger with a Manny that didn’t get direction to act up than we were with Jason Bay (as good as he played). I also believe Big Papi wouldn’t have gotten into that funk he did after the deal, and we beat the Rays in less than 7 on our way to beating the Phillies in the World Series.

Of course, this is all rampant speculation that can never be proven true, much like my theory that we could have easily gotten Beckett/Lowell (since they really wanted to dump Lowell’s salary) without including Hanley Ramirez in the deal.

I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.

Wait ’til THIS year!

by AlohaSox on Jan 25, 2012 1:14 AM EST up reply actions  

Well, I see this for what it really is

Win now while Verlander is freaking dominating, be damned with the future.

I love it.

Wildcard seems like there will be quite a few teams in on it this season.

by SoxAcumen on Jan 24, 2012 3:38 PM EST reply actions  

Good point

this deal will be horrible in a few years but they prolly have 2 maybe 3 years to win it all.

I think the royals have a slim chance if some guys mature very fast though.

))<>((

by German Red Sox Fan on Jan 24, 2012 4:02 PM EST up reply actions  

That might be part of their thought process

“KC might (maybe, who knows) be a contender in 2-3 years with their upcoming guys, let’s try and go all out while the rest of the division is pretty decidedly mediocre.

by The Name is Dalton on Jan 24, 2012 5:09 PM EST up reply actions  

At what point do we just have to accept, that Jedi exist

And Boras is one?

I am Sandy's bitch.

Joseph Vincent Paterno 12/21/26 - 1/22/12 RIP Coach
Penn State Forever

by Rogue Nine on Jan 24, 2012 3:39 PM EST reply actions  

Don't you mean Sith?

Hic sunt fortuna dracones
There is only 1 "n" in Hutchison

by JaysfanDL on Jan 25, 2012 9:58 AM EST up reply actions  

I'm really liking the Sox' chances

starting about three or four years from now.

by steel sox on Jan 24, 2012 3:40 PM EST reply actions  

KC will still be giving them problems next year

The team this hurts the most is the White Sox, they are even more screwed.

The 2011 Over the Monster Gedman League Fantasy Baseball Champion

I hate free agency

by gizmosandy on Jan 24, 2012 3:43 PM EST reply actions  

So they should just hand us Floyd.

I am Sandy's bitch.

Joseph Vincent Paterno 12/21/26 - 1/22/12 RIP Coach
Penn State Forever

by Rogue Nine on Jan 24, 2012 3:43 PM EST up reply actions  

I think thats a done deal

The 2011 Over the Monster Gedman League Fantasy Baseball Champion

I hate free agency

by gizmosandy on Jan 24, 2012 3:46 PM EST up reply actions  

Well, if that's the consequence of this deal...

… then it makes me happy!

I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.

Wait ’til THIS year!

by AlohaSox on Jan 24, 2012 3:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Signing Fielder through age 36 = lolz

Also, once Victor comes back, they will be paying him 13M a year to…not have a position? Avila is at catcher, Cabrera and Fielder aren’t sitting from 1B/DH. Giving Victor that contract was stupid enough to begin with but now it’s just head shaking.

"We’re the Sox. Not Apple Sox. We ain’t no Barbeque Sox. We’re the Red Sox.’’ - David Ortiz

by L33to II on Jan 24, 2012 3:50 PM EST reply actions  

better deal than the Crawford contract

Prince is mighty young

The 2011 Over the Monster Gedman League Fantasy Baseball Champion

I hate free agency

by gizmosandy on Jan 24, 2012 3:52 PM EST up reply actions  

neither is good, just saying Prince is the better bet

The 2011 Over the Monster Gedman League Fantasy Baseball Champion

I hate free agency

by gizmosandy on Jan 24, 2012 3:55 PM EST up reply actions  

I've heard Prince has looked pretty good at first the last couple of years

no Gonzo or Tek, but fine. Im sure that’ll change sooner rather than later.

by wolf9309 on Jan 24, 2012 4:05 PM EST up reply actions  

Tek started playing first base?

I mean, I’m sure he’d be good at it, but I assume you meant Tex?

I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.

Wait ’til THIS year!

by AlohaSox on Jan 25, 2012 12:56 AM EST up reply actions  

Let's try not to mix up Tek and Horseface again, okay?

We’re talking about one of my heroes and one of the MFY there…

;)

I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.

Wait ’til THIS year!

by AlohaSox on Jan 25, 2012 3:09 PM EST up reply actions  

they're signed through the same age

"We’re the Sox. Not Apple Sox. We ain’t no Barbeque Sox. We’re the Red Sox.’’ - David Ortiz

by L33to II on Jan 24, 2012 3:55 PM EST up reply actions  

That's a great point.

I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.

Wait ’til THIS year!

by AlohaSox on Jan 25, 2012 12:57 AM EST up reply actions  

Crawford theoretically would age well

Fielder’s dad blimped up and was out of baseball by 34.

Everything Must Go.

by Sean O on Jan 24, 2012 7:03 PM EST up reply actions  

No way

I’m willing the bet that Crawford provides more value per $ than Fielder over the length of their contracts

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by brogshan on Jan 24, 2012 8:25 PM EST up reply actions  

Nah, Prince is actually good

and is being put in a position where he can succeed, unlike Crawford.

"There's something out there, beyond the horizon in the corner of your eye. I'm going to find out what it is."
-Thomas Solomon, Gentleman Adventurer.

by TheLoneDavid on Jan 24, 2012 8:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Joey Votto now the best 1B in the NL

followed by… Lance Berkman & Mike Morse

by dennet on Jan 24, 2012 3:50 PM EST via mobile reply actions   1 recs

Just a reminder

This doesn’t automatically make the Tigers awesome. They should have won 89 games last year, not 95, according to Baseball Reference’s expected records and their run differential. They lost Victor Martinez, and are replacing him with Prince Fielder. So, they are likely better than they were in 2011, but better from a high-80s win total, not 95, and only in the sense they are upgrading on Martinez, not from nothing.

by Marc Normandin on Jan 24, 2012 3:51 PM EST reply actions  

Their pitching makes them "awesome"

The 2011 Over the Monster Gedman League Fantasy Baseball Champion

I hate free agency

by gizmosandy on Jan 24, 2012 3:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Oh, they are a good team

No argument there. But this isn’t a massive 2012 upgrade for them, since they lost Martinez.

by Marc Normandin on Jan 24, 2012 3:54 PM EST up reply actions  

i think they'll have improved production from their rotation this year

A full year of Fister, Scherzer maturing, less starts by Phil Coke…

by steel sox on Jan 24, 2012 3:54 PM EST up reply actions  

Full year of Fister

and supposedly Turner might help

by BobZupcic on Jan 24, 2012 3:54 PM EST up reply actions  

It will be pretty great

To see them tear apart the Central. That division is just not good.

by Marc Normandin on Jan 24, 2012 3:57 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't think Cabrera/Vmart is as intimidating as Cabrera/Fielder

Whoever they put in as #2 hitter could be seeing a lot of fastballs.

Could be like the Aurilla-Bonds-Kent situation.

by dennet on Jan 24, 2012 3:59 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

The Tiger were awesome before

this makes them terrifying.

"There's something out there, beyond the horizon in the corner of your eye. I'm going to find out what it is."
-Thomas Solomon, Gentleman Adventurer.

by TheLoneDavid on Jan 24, 2012 4:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Remember when they got Cabrera and they were going to score 1000 runs?

Things didn’t exactly go to plan that year.

Hic sunt fortuna dracones
There is only 1 "n" in Hutchison

by JaysfanDL on Jan 25, 2012 10:00 AM EST up reply actions  

Wow the number is so mindboggling

Especially for a guy with a bmi over 30

))<>((

by German Red Sox Fan on Jan 24, 2012 3:55 PM EST reply actions  

Boras must have nude pictures of Mike Ilitch in a Roman steam bath

I doubt any other team was contemplating anything even near this size contract.

"We’re the Sox. Not Apple Sox. We ain’t no Barbeque Sox. We’re the Red Sox.’’ - David Ortiz

by L33to II on Jan 24, 2012 4:00 PM EST reply actions  

Sounded like the Nationals were close

But unwilling to go higher than they offered. Presumably Boras brought that offer to Detroit and they topped it.

by Marc Normandin on Jan 24, 2012 4:06 PM EST up reply actions  

I was thinking the same thing

in fact I would not be surprised to learn that the Nats had topped some offers, became the leading suitor, and then were topped by others.

by dennet on Jan 24, 2012 5:10 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

That's the standard Boras model, right?

Get the best deal he thinks he can, and then show those numbers to a team he thinks could pay more, and get them to buy in.

Obviously, VMart’s injury worked beautifully into Boras’ hands… he was about all in with the Nationals, suddenly the Tigers need a 1B/DH type, have the money, have the team to contend now, so… there’s your over the top team.

I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.

Wait ’til THIS year!

by AlohaSox on Jan 25, 2012 12:59 AM EST up reply actions  

I'm kinda upset about this

I was really hoping he’d go to Washington and they could have a chance at winning the NL East.

by wolf9309 on Jan 24, 2012 4:07 PM EST reply actions  

under the

“we can afford to give up 8 runs/game with this 3-4-5” theory, I assume

by wolf9309 on Jan 24, 2012 4:14 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, I mean, that's a downright scary lineup

But ugh, that’s a downright scary defensive infield.

I’m sure Detroit fans aren’t thinking about this at all right now, but as an objective baseball observer, 9 years of Fielder can get dangerous.

by South Coast Ghost on Jan 24, 2012 4:20 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, beyond 32, this deal is ugly fast.

Paying $22+ million a year (my math might be off… did it quickly) for a guy who doesn’t look like anyone playing the game over age 32 with any success has ever looked…

… then again, he doesn’t look like the kind of guy that would have success in any sport even at his current age, so who knows…

I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.

Wait ’til THIS year!

by AlohaSox on Jan 25, 2012 1:01 AM EST up reply actions  

I think he's actually like, ridiculously fit

sort of like defensive tackles in football, or sumo wrestlers. They look like they’re fat and out of shape until you see them do something athletic.

"There's something out there, beyond the horizon in the corner of your eye. I'm going to find out what it is."
-Thomas Solomon, Gentleman Adventurer.

by TheLoneDavid on Jan 25, 2012 10:02 AM EST up reply actions  

Okay, there's some weight to that argument.

(Sorry… I just couldn’t resist.)

However, I’m not sure it translates as well to baseball. In football and sumo, the big guy (while plenty of muscular fitness beneath it) is occupying space, driving his opponent off with leverage where the weight helps, and in football, using that size to capture a much smaller player.

So, I see Fielder’s ability for what it is now, but doubt it ages well. As someone who has had seven knee surgeries and carries around some extra weight now, that extra weight takes it’s toll on joints that Fielder needs to be successful: knees, hips, ankles. We’re talking about maintaining a high level of performance for the next 9 years to be worth what they are paying him. When’s the last time a defensive tackle his size had a 9 year productive stretch (starting at age 26)?

I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.

Wait ’til THIS year!

by AlohaSox on Jan 25, 2012 3:13 PM EST up reply actions  

Reggie White did it, although he's an end

Pat Williams, formerly with the Vikings has had a great stretch.

Some other guys who aren’t DTs, but are big guys with good, long careers: Jeff Backus, Lions LT, Jeff Saturday, Indianapolis C.

"There's something out there, beyond the horizon in the corner of your eye. I'm going to find out what it is."
-Thomas Solomon, Gentleman Adventurer.

by TheLoneDavid on Jan 25, 2012 5:51 PM EST up reply actions  

I wish I understood how these things happened

NO ONE was going to pay Fielder 9 years and 214 million dollars! Not anywhere close! How the hell did he do it?

by Sologub on Jan 24, 2012 6:34 PM EST reply actions  

After what they paid for Werth, I'm not sure the Nationals weren't at 10/$200 million...

I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.

Wait ’til THIS year!

by AlohaSox on Jan 25, 2012 1:02 AM EST up reply actions  

dh effect

this is another thing i want to see studies on. ive heard former players say that DHing is really difficult because not playing defense takes you out of the game . at least thats what the explanation for Berkmans’s rebirth last year and posadas falling off a cliff. if fielder or cabrera bat significantly worse as a DH than ill start to believe DHing can have a tangible effect on performance

by rm81 on Jan 24, 2012 10:49 PM EST reply actions  

How about Adam Dunn?

Big Papi’s done all right as a DH.

"There's something out there, beyond the horizon in the corner of your eye. I'm going to find out what it is."
-Thomas Solomon, Gentleman Adventurer.

by TheLoneDavid on Jan 24, 2012 11:16 PM EST up reply actions  

yeah theres definitely cases

where full time dh’s play well (papi, edgar martinez), and players who suck regardless of weather they field or play dh.

but if i was a gm, i would like to see if you could project something like: ok this is a potential first baseman. he would hit X if he played 1b every day. he would hit X-Z if he played dh every day. but he would cost us Y runs if he played 1b every day.

we’re getting closer to finding out how much runs a player can cost at a certain position. but i wonder if theres an average projection of how much value a player loses (if any) when he shifts from playing defense to playing DH on average.

by rm81 on Jan 24, 2012 11:38 PM EST up reply actions  

I remember Sheffield complaining about that.

Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.

@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
OTM | Silver Seven

by Bloggy on Jan 25, 2012 12:06 AM EST up reply actions  

ha

well i did hear papi say something to the effect of “dhing sucks” when the whole posada drama came about last year. my sense is that most players FEEL like dhing is harder than playing their natural position, but weather it makes a tangible difference is unclear

by rm81 on Jan 25, 2012 12:55 AM EST up reply actions  

Well, I think Big Papi is talking about the difference between a position player and a DH...

… when you have an 0 fer.

Clearly, Big Papi doesn’t think DHing sucks too much, or he wouldn’t be as good as he is. However, when you have an 0 fer night, and you’re Pedey with a line drive stab and a behind the back double play, you can feel pretty good about yourself.

When you’re the DH, like Big Papi’s 2009 and 2010 starts to the season, and you don’t have anything to focus on but your struggles at the plate, that’s where I think it takes a certain type of player to deal with the challenge.

So, I think that’s where you actually see it… harder for a DH to end a slump, than a position player who has other things to think about, and other ways to contribute to his team’s success.

I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.

Wait ’til THIS year!

by AlohaSox on Jan 25, 2012 1:09 AM EST up reply actions  

well I think it does make a tangible difference

but it’s all mental, so I’m not sure there’s really a way to accurately estimate the difference in production- as different players handle it differently. I doubt Papi would be hitting any better if he were playing first base, but I think there’s little doubt that Dunn would’ve probably done better if he wasn’t stressed about DHing

by wolf9309 on Jan 25, 2012 9:31 AM EST up reply actions  

Right.

What I was saying, but much more succinctly.

I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.

Wait ’til THIS year!

by AlohaSox on Jan 25, 2012 3:14 PM EST up reply actions  

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