Roy Oswalt or Gavin Floyd?
The Red Sox freed up $7.67 million by trading Marco Scutaro to the Colorado Rockies over the weekend. We don't know exactly how much they still had left in the budget prior to the trade, but considering they are still supposedly in talks with free agent Roy Oswalt after signing Cody Ross for $3 million, it's safe to say the answer is "more than zero."
The most oft-discussed starting pitchers the Red Sox could acquire are Oswalt and the White Sox's Gavin Floyd. Both pitchers have pros and cons surrounding them, so which of the two should we be rooting for the Red Sox to acquire?
Oswalt is the better pitcher -- of this, there is no question. Oswalt also owns a more pressing injury history, though. While short, it involves his back, which acted up last season and limited him to 139 innings and a good, but not quite Oswaltian performance.
That back is why Oswalt, a pitcher with loads of talent who was part of Philadelphia's four-headed ace monster last spring, remains available. The Rangers were interested, but acquired Yu Darvish instead. The Yankees were intrigued, but traded for Michael Pineda and signed Hiroki Kuroda. This isn't to say Oswalt is absolutely damaged goods, it's just that not every team felt comfortable taking on the risk. (Although, we don't know this for sure in the case of the Rangers -- they might have signed Oswalt had a deal with Darvish not occurred.)
Worries over Oswalt's back might have been overblown, too, as what was expected to be potentially career-threatening didn't keep Oswalt from coming back to pitch even better than he had prior to his DL stint (3.4 K/BB ratio, 3.59 ERA, 6.8 strikeouts per nine, 0.5 homers per nine). There is a significant chance whoever ends up with Oswalt for roughly $8 million on a one-year deal is going to own one of next year's most sought-after free agents.
Oswalt also just costs money: a trade for anyone even close to Oswalt's caliber is going to involve prospects, in addition to dollars. The Red Sox have also established enough depth where, if Oswalt needs to skip a few starts during the year for the sake of his back, they can get by just fine -- Andrew Miller is much further from the majors in 2012 than in 2011 thanks to Alfredo Aceves, Vicente Padilla, Aaron Cook, and potentially others.
As for Floyd, he's not as good as Oswalt in terms of performance, but you don't have to worry about the back flaring up and ruining his season. As stated last week when the Red Sox looked into Floyd to begin with, he has averaged 31 starts a year over the last four years, and his FIP have been generally consistent with those of an above-average hurler.
What will it cost to get him, though? Felix Doubront was mentioned as a part of a deal due to being a superfluous -- but useful -- piece who is out of options. It's likely, as Ben Buchanan mentioned on Twitter and as has been mentioned on the podcast, that players like Brandon Jacobs would be on the way to Chicago should Floyd come to Boston. That likely wouldn't be enough in a winter where Gio Gonzalez commanded multiple top-100 prospects.
However, thanks to the new collective bargaining agreement and Floyd's ability, the Red Sox can replenish their system with two prospects when he becomes a free agent. All it would take is a qualifying offer, one that, given Floyd's sustained successes in the bigs, would be matched by a team on a longer-term deal. The Red Sox would get two compensation picks for extending the qualifying offer, after having either one or two years of Floyd under their control (Floyd has a $9.5 million option for 2013).
Floyd would also represent a much lower salary for luxury tax purposes than Oswalt, as his four-year, $15.5 million of guaranteed money means he accounts for just $3.875 million against the luxury tax, rather than the full $7 million he is owed. That basically means it comes down to the cost in prospects -- if it's more than the Sox feel they can recoup through compensation, maybe Oswalt is the better look here.
There are two legitimate and disparate paths here for Boston to take. Neither is the wrong answer, but it's likely the team wants to make sure they make the move that is the most right for both now and later. If it turns out that the rotation is already fine, and that the leftover Scutaro money is best held on to until, say, mid-season, when Boston knows precisely what they need to upgrade, then the answer they found was, "none of the above."
That's a tougher option to swallow as a fan, but has its own merits, as it gives them the cushion under the luxury tax they are hoping for, in order to significantly reduce future penalties for future spending over the soft limit imposed by MLB.
That doesn't mean it's my preference -- my preference is for Oswalt or Floyd. I would understand, but not necessarily like, the more wait-and-see approach, as an Oswalt or Floyd on the Opening Day roster means one fewer hole the Red Sox might have to later fill, and more cushion against the injuries and unexpected, disappointing performances that occur during the season for every team.
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Hoping Cherington and the FO say
“Ah, f*ck it” and go get them both
by BobZupcic on Jan 24, 2012 4:03 PM EST reply actions 8 recs
I was thinking that exact same thing this morning
But someone tell me what Gavin Floyd would cost in terms of players or prospects?
Had to rec this too...
It’s the best move for winning in 2012.
I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.
Wait ’til THIS year!
If getting Gavin Floyd costs anywhere near what it took to get Gio
I’m absolutely against.
by dennet on Jan 24, 2012 4:10 PM EST via mobile reply actions
there's no way it would
Floyd hasn’t put up the impressive years that Gio did, is older, and under control for less time
Only way that happens is if we negotiate with Kenny Williams on one of his genius days.
by aubatron2011 on Jan 24, 2012 4:13 PM EST up reply actions
Kenny is like Ted Turner from Family Guy.
“You disgust me! How’s a million a year sound? Get out of my face! I could use a man like you!”
"We’re the Sox. Not Apple Sox. We ain’t no Barbeque Sox. We’re the Red Sox.’’ - David Ortiz
I don't think it will take that much
It’s just easy to imagine them not making it cheap because of some of the other deals of the winter.
Twitter: @Marc_Normandin
by Marc Normandin on Jan 24, 2012 4:13 PM EST up reply actions
yeah, even the Trevor Cahill deal
involved better prospects (Parker) than I’d like to see us give up in a trade (Ranaudo).
And we have some other athletic OFs less valuable to us than Jacobs. Like Kendrick Perkins. I don’t mean to lowball, it just seems that Kenny Williams would appreciate Dubront/Perkins/Someone else- he has been trading for nameless low-level prospects and this org is deep in such guys.
But at the same time, everyone knows by now that the Red Sox are not in the best of negotiating positions.
by dennet on Jan 24, 2012 4:50 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Okay, that's the second time I've seen a Kendrick Perkins reference in OTM.
Do we actually have an OF prospect named Kendrick Perkins, or is this really a reference to the trade none of us Celtics fans liked last year (before Jeff Green was ruled out of this season with the heart ailment)?
Sorry, if I’m slow… but I’m having trouble tracking this one.
I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.
Wait ’til THIS year!
yeah, we have a young OF prospect named Kendrick Perkins
though the Astros trade thing was just a joke
How random is that...
Crazy.
I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.
Wait ’til THIS year!
I laughed out loud when we drafted him.
by CelticPride on Jan 25, 2012 11:59 AM EST up reply actions
It was really messing me up.
I hated the Perkins trade at the time, and with Green out for the season and Perkins slimmed down… really hate it now.
So, I thought it was a metaphor for a bad trade or something.
I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.
Wait ’til THIS year!
I prefer Oswalt
Floyd makes more sense if it means they can stay under the tax, but I think that’s unlikely, would prefer Oswalt’s pitching, and to keep our prospects.
Some estimate I saw
Had enough room under the cap for Floyd, but that would be the end of the offseason.
I can come to terms with staying under the threshold as long as ownership in writing promises to go nuts with the 2013 or 2014 free agent classes, they look awesome as they stand now.
I am Sandy's bitch.
Joseph Vincent Paterno 12/21/26 - 1/22/12 RIP Coach
Penn State Forever
As long as "go nuts"
Does not mean signing 1B/DH types to 9 year 214 million dollar contracts
Remember we are kinda in this situation because we’ve gone nuts in free-agency in the past right?
Great point.
I’d rather us hang on to the prospects it might take to get Floyd, and go with Oswalt on a one year deal. I feel like the injury wasn’t as significant as some people think, he’s been as reliable as Floyd for a longer period of time and more successful too.
I really think it’s a Beltre like deal for a #4 starter, where Oswalt comes to Boston with something to prove, to get a longer term deal at the end of the season. And I think he’s competitive enough that he pitches his ass off for us this year.
I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.
Wait ’til THIS year!
This.
I’d be fine signing neither for not only the flexibility to fill a small roster hole at the deadline but for the luxury tax flexibility to get Hamels, Cain, or (my favorite) Greinke.
Josh Hamilton wouldn’t be the worst guy to spend money on either if Kalish doesn’t prove he can be good and healthy this year.
by abbreviatedman on Jan 24, 2012 10:37 PM EST up reply actions
If I was sure we were going to make it under, I might buy into that.
However, I don’t think we will (especially with all the nickel and dime deals we keep signing, like Cody Ross), so in that case… I want us to spend what it takes to contend.
I’m not convinced we can come in under the tax, and contend, with the way this roster is currently constructed.
I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.
Wait ’til THIS year!
Need innings
There are too many questions about Oswalt’s back to add them to Clay’s back and Josh’s back. We need a reliable, consistent starter.
simul justus et peccator
If...
..Roy Oswalt can argue with Angel Hernandez without getting tossed, I have to go with him.
by Dale Sams on Jan 24, 2012 4:23 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
I see what you're saying...
… but I’d feel even more like signing him if the picture showed him pulling Hernandez’s still-beating heart out of his chest Mola-Ram style.
Besides, imagine coming up to the plate and looking at this*

———
* – No, there’s no actual basis for this Oswalt-as-Mola Ram comparison, but I’m running with it. In fact, I totally hope we sign him now.
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by nuthinboutnuthin on Jan 24, 2012 7:58 PM EST up reply actions
That is just too awesome!
NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.
OR E-Jax signs for a surprisingly low contract
That Fangraphs article got me thinking— could he be had for something like 3/30? He was one of the better free agent starters this year and still can’t get a deal. Next year will be glutted with elite hurlers, so it’s not like he’d do better taking a pillow contract.
That's an interesting concept.
Does that mean we could dump Lackey’s salary in 2013? If so, I’m all for an Edwin Jackson deal for 3/$30 million…
I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.
Wait ’til THIS year!
Comes down to what Floyd costs in terms of prospects and knowing exactly what the Sox financial position is.......
Gavin seems to be a bit more durable and the option for next season may come in handy especially with the fairly low AAV. Have no problem with Oswalt either…as BZ noted would be nice just to pick up both.
Oswalt for me
I know Floyd is cheaper, but that really only matters for this year’s money and CBT cap if Oswalt is on a one year deal. And if it is about MY preference, if they are going over this year I would rather have them pay the extra $5-6 and get Roy. They would in theory have to find a replacement for Roy next season, but I almost would rather leave the #4-5 spot open for one of the big name guys next year….just in case.
That would be my preference. My predictation would be closer to Floyd depending on the prospects.
by The Name is Dalton on Jan 24, 2012 4:59 PM EST reply actions
Truth
hence the “just in case”. I suppose when the SP free agent market for next year becomes clearer, Floyd may still be available at a reduced cost due to less years of control and they could try and extend him. Or the White Sox could trade him before that happened. Who knows. But, if I could only have one I would go Oswalt.
by The Name is Dalton on Jan 24, 2012 5:19 PM EST up reply actions
So MLBTR says that the Sox are looking for a starting SS
Could Ian Desmond be an option?
"There's something out there, beyond the horizon in the corner of your eye. I'm going to find out what it is."
-Thomas Solomon, Gentleman Adventurer.
The Nationals apparently aren't big on him.
"There's something out there, beyond the horizon in the corner of your eye. I'm going to find out what it is."
-Thomas Solomon, Gentleman Adventurer.
by TheLoneDavid on Jan 24, 2012 5:10 PM EST up reply actions
I wonder if that's on the "if they decide not to get a SP" route
Though someone like Desmond would not cost much in terms of dollars.
Twitter: @Marc_Normandin
by Marc Normandin on Jan 24, 2012 5:12 PM EST up reply actions
Whoa
Not many are behind Aviles/Punto due to them being holes in a lineup
and a guy that posted a 0.290 wOBA and 80 wRC+ last year in full-time duty is brought up?
I didn't say I wanted him
I just said he’s available.
I’m basically on the “Cherington is going to make the dumbest move possible” train of thought.
"There's something out there, beyond the horizon in the corner of your eye. I'm going to find out what it is."
-Thomas Solomon, Gentleman Adventurer.
by TheLoneDavid on Jan 24, 2012 5:15 PM EST up reply actions
Phil Rogers
Is usually a moron who knows very little, but he’s suggesting the Red Sox are interested in Gordon Beckham for the SS vacancy in addition to Gavin Floyd.
Hmmm
I don’t totally hate it, especially if he hits like he did in 2009
"There's something out there, beyond the horizon in the corner of your eye. I'm going to find out what it is."
-Thomas Solomon, Gentleman Adventurer.
by TheLoneDavid on Jan 24, 2012 5:28 PM EST up reply actions
Beckham
I saw something about that too…I like the idea of getting Beckham cheap, but I’m not sure he’s an upgrade over Aviles for 2012.
by The Laser Show on Jan 24, 2012 5:34 PM EST up reply actions
Beckham is frustrating and inconsistent
But there is talent there, for sure. I will think on this.
Twitter: @Marc_Normandin
by Marc Normandin on Jan 24, 2012 5:35 PM EST up reply actions
I think Ozzie kind of jerked him around
maybe Valentine can bring him around.
"There's something out there, beyond the horizon in the corner of your eye. I'm going to find out what it is."
-Thomas Solomon, Gentleman Adventurer.
by TheLoneDavid on Jan 24, 2012 5:37 PM EST up reply actions
Of maybe more concern to me than his bat
Is whether his glove would work at short or not
Twitter: @Marc_Normandin
by Marc Normandin on Jan 24, 2012 5:39 PM EST up reply actions
I can't be too terribly horrible
and if it is we could probably trade him to Detroit, they could use a decent, cheap 2B
"There's something out there, beyond the horizon in the corner of your eye. I'm going to find out what it is."
-Thomas Solomon, Gentleman Adventurer.
by TheLoneDavid on Jan 24, 2012 5:47 PM EST up reply actions
This...
…don’t think he has defensive chops for shortstop, especially considering his bat has not been impressive for two years. Hard to wish-cast both at the same time.
by UltimateCranston on Jan 24, 2012 5:54 PM EST up reply actions
I'm a ChiSox Fan
Which might not be apparent, but I’d wager Kenny won’t be giving him up for just anything. He’s made the transition to 2B and was a fantastic defender last year. He still makes just peanuts and they might still want to hold onto him to see if he can regain the form they saw when he was drafted in 2008. Who knows though? Kenny gonna Kenny.
I would imagine Iglesias would be part of any Beckham deal
not that he adds much value. Could probably trade him to Theo though, Jose is one of his guys.
"There's something out there, beyond the horizon in the corner of your eye. I'm going to find out what it is."
-Thomas Solomon, Gentleman Adventurer.
by TheLoneDavid on Jan 24, 2012 5:46 PM EST up reply actions
According to Sickels
The White Sox system ranks dead last, with nit much to talk about among hitters
Brentz, Doubront, Iglesias, Vazquez package
I'd do it.
"There's something out there, beyond the horizon in the corner of your eye. I'm going to find out what it is."
-Thomas Solomon, Gentleman Adventurer.
by TheLoneDavid on Jan 24, 2012 6:00 PM EST up reply actions
I'd do that in a heartbeat.
Floyd is cheap and underrated.
Lester
Beckett
Floyd
Buchholz
Bard
With the Rotationettes waiting in the wings.
by abbreviatedman on Jan 24, 2012 10:41 PM EST up reply actions
+1
@#$%in’ ship ’em out!
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
OTM | Silver Seven
I assume I wouldn't like the cost
Just send Floyd, please. You can even have prospects. Real ones!
Twitter: @Marc_Normandin
by Marc Normandin on Jan 24, 2012 5:52 PM EST up reply actions
Prospects are desperately needed.
The Prince signing should hopefully push our hard-headed GM to do the rebuild that is very needed at this point. Kenny likely wants pitching. He loves his tools guys as well. I’d wager he’s interested in players such as Ranaudo, Workman, and Jacobs. Perhaps Brentz too.
Let's do...
…Doubront, Iglesias, Ranaudo, Workman, Brentz for Floyd and Alexei. Everyone’s happy — no? No, you’re not happy, South Side? Can still do it nonetheless.
by UltimateCranston on Jan 24, 2012 5:56 PM EST up reply actions
I'd have to change my pants.
"There's something out there, beyond the horizon in the corner of your eye. I'm going to find out what it is."
-Thomas Solomon, Gentleman Adventurer.
by TheLoneDavid on Jan 24, 2012 6:00 PM EST up reply actions
That's not a bad deal
although that’s a huge chunk of our 2010 draft in one trade (both supplementals and the 2nd rounder)
"Kenny gonna Kenny"
awesome.
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
OTM | Silver Seven
How about Marco Scutaro?
He plays 2B for Colorado, but he has experi…
Oh, you’ve heard of him?
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by nuthinboutnuthin on Jan 24, 2012 6:14 PM EST up reply actions
But I hear he's available...
… for a shitty AAAA pitcher.
The Year of Extreme Opinions
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I apologize if this post has offended you in any way. Please retroactively ignore it. Thank you for your consideration.
by nuthinboutnuthin on Jan 24, 2012 6:21 PM EST up reply actions
Christ. SERIOUSLY.
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
OTM | Silver Seven
Ha ha...
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
OTM | Silver Seven
x

"There's something out there, beyond the horizon in the corner of your eye. I'm going to find out what it is."
-Thomas Solomon, Gentleman Adventurer.
by TheLoneDavid on Jan 24, 2012 8:30 PM EST up reply actions
Is Ben playing The Show
and only thinking he’s making these moves? Nobody runs an offseason like this.
Everything Must Go.
I agree.
If we now add a starting SS for the remaining chunk of salary we saved in the Scutaro deal…
I do have to ask, though, whether this is an indication that they moved Scutaro because there was a real need for another OF, and we didn’t have the $3 million to just sign Cody Ross.
Of course, now we get back to the… if we couldn’t afford Marco’s hit on the cap, why did we pick up that option instead of just losing the $1.5 million buy out?
I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.
Wait ’til THIS year!
if we'd turned down his option
then he would still be a $1.5 million tax hit. As is now, he’s a $0 tax hit, plus we got Crap Craptensen to eat AAA innings.
Well, Crap Craptensen in the minors...
… and a $3 million dollar platoon OF, since we sort of need Aviles to play SS now, except that we’re in the process of adding a starting SS that will also cost “X” towards the salary cap (having already traded Lowrie away, with Scutaro at SS)…
I’m sorry if this seems like the right hand didn’t know what the left was doing to me, but if you couldn’t afford to keep Scutaro at SS, why trade Lowrie? (I know Melancon should be good, but he’s now a set up guy, which we needed because Bard is moving to the rotation… again… it becomes sort of circular.)
I don’t feel like we really knew where we were heading when we made some of these decision in October and November.
I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.
Wait ’til THIS year!
Absolutely this.
I don’t feel like there’s been a solid plan…just a bunch of moves. And maybe……..JUUUUUUUUUUUUUUST MAYBE….it will work out okay. I’m holding out a little bit of hope.
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
OTM | Silver Seven
There isn't much difference between Lowrie, Scutaro and Aviles
So, it makes no sense to have all three, almost no sense to even have two of them. At least Punto adds something the other three don’t: He can catch the ball.
Yes, but...
… why pick up a $6 million option on Scutaro to gamble on the ability to trade him away, if we cannot afford the $6 million?
And why are they reportedly looking for a starting SS with Aviles and Punto already on the roster, especially with the other news that our 40 man is currently full? What else are we going to trade away to get a starting SS, and how does that solve our rotation problems?
I’m not sure they know where they are going now, let alone back in October and November.
I do still have hope, thouhg… an Oswalt signing or a Floyd trade (hope the Fielder deal shows Kenny he has no hope for 2012) and this will look like a very good team on paper.
Of course, the 2011 team looked a lot better on paper and we all know how that turned out.
I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.
Wait ’til THIS year!
I prefer Floyd
I can’t tell you why. I just have a better feeling about it.
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
OTM | Silver Seven
There's something I like about Floyd over Oswalt
Better chance of his back not giving out, insurance for 2013 if Bard doesn’t work as a starter, and they can pick up some prospects in the draft by giving him the qualifying offer.
Twitter: @Marc_Normandin
by Marc Normandin on Jan 24, 2012 6:28 PM EST up reply actions

"There's something out there, beyond the horizon in the corner of your eye. I'm going to find out what it is."
-Thomas Solomon, Gentleman Adventurer.
by TheLoneDavid on Jan 24, 2012 10:15 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Ha ha ha!
That’s a little funny.
Though, perhaps that’s because I’ve been in the Oswalt camp all along.
I really cannot believe the fear people have that the back injury is going to be that big a deal for a guy that was ridiculously durable his whole career, didn’t hurt his back pitching, and pitched well after returning from the back injury.
I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.
Wait ’til THIS year!
I've got no real fear of his back injury
Just a vibe.
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
OTM | Silver Seven
OH REALLY FOOL?

Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
OTM | Silver Seven
Fellow Nova Scotian Kate Beaton.
Glad to see the recognition. She’s brilliant.
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
OTM | Silver Seven
Ha ha...probably the best place to learn, to be honest.
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
OTM | Silver Seven
For example
To solve problems, you just get Bryan Adams on the phone.
…Do you have his number? Can he fix our rotation?
Bryan Adams is capable of all.
And you know it’s true
Everything he do
He do it for you.
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
OTM | Silver Seven
Only 4 good things come from Canada
1. High Quality Pot
2. Progressive Rock Bands
3. Comedians
4. Bloggy
There – I said it
I dispute that last one.
"There's something out there, beyond the horizon in the corner of your eye. I'm going to find out what it is."
-Thomas Solomon, Gentleman Adventurer.
by TheLoneDavid on Jan 25, 2012 1:12 PM EST up reply actions
Bryan Lee O'Malley!
Twitter: @Marc_Normandin
by Marc Normandin on Jan 25, 2012 1:12 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
That's Vermont, dude.
"There's something out there, beyond the horizon in the corner of your eye. I'm going to find out what it is."
-Thomas Solomon, Gentleman Adventurer.
by TheLoneDavid on Jan 25, 2012 4:58 PM EST up reply actions
Also, the UP.
"There's something out there, beyond the horizon in the corner of your eye. I'm going to find out what it is."
-Thomas Solomon, Gentleman Adventurer.
by TheLoneDavid on Jan 25, 2012 4:58 PM EST up reply actions
Plus he's pitched in the AL
Check out my blog at http://conor-soxrox.blogspot.com
Luxury Tax Question (off topic)
If the Sox bid successfully for Jorge Soler and he is signed to a contract which doesn’t place him on the 40-man roster, does his salary count for the tax threshold?
The Year of Extreme Opinions
BLAAAAAAARGH OMFG SIGN STARTERS!!
I apologize if this post has offended you in any way. Please retroactively ignore it. Thank you for your consideration.
by nuthinboutnuthin on Jan 24, 2012 6:54 PM EST reply actions
I THINK...
… that it’s only the 40 man roster that’s counted for the luxury tax.
Don’t quote me on that as I’m not positive.
by Rick Bentsen on Jan 24, 2012 7:05 PM EST up reply actions
This is true
it might even only be ML contracts.
"There's something out there, beyond the horizon in the corner of your eye. I'm going to find out what it is."
-Thomas Solomon, Gentleman Adventurer.
by TheLoneDavid on Jan 24, 2012 7:16 PM EST up reply actions
only is the 40 man
but it sounds like Soler is probably the level of player that will get a major league deal. Maybe I’m wrong about that.
Upon reflection this is true...
… sad that to me 16 and 19 year olds are the same.
Wait. Not like that.
The Year of Extreme Opinions
BLAAAAAAARGH OMFG SIGN STARTERS!!
I apologize if this post has offended you in any way. Please retroactively ignore it. Thank you for your consideration.
by nuthinboutnuthin on Jan 24, 2012 8:02 PM EST up reply actions
As a pitcher,
I’d prefer Floyd. But I don’t want to give up the prospects it would take to get him so I voted Oswalt.
Check out my blog at http://conor-soxrox.blogspot.com
I don't want to give up
Middlebrooks, Bogaerts, Lavarnway, Barnes, Jacobs, or Swihart and one of them is probably what it would take. Then again, it is Kenny Williams.
Check out my blog at http://conor-soxrox.blogspot.com
How many teams will go for Oswalt at this time?
Tigers wouldn’t be in the mix on Oswalt because of acquiring Fielder.
But Teams that fail to acquire Fielder could be in the mix on Oswalt or E-Jax.
Nationals,Mariners,Raingers etc?
no, although,
the Mariners offer a great park to pitch in to regain value and would pretty much guarantee he’d get traded to a contender at the deadline- and that Nationals might pay him more than others are willing to go and mentor their young pitchers, and frankly, he could give them an outside chance at a playoff team (really quite outside)
Of course, I haven’t heard anything about either being interested in him, just teams that it seems to me would want him.
I don't know about way outside
if Werth bounces back they’ve got a pretty good team.
"There's something out there, beyond the horizon in the corner of your eye. I'm going to find out what it is."
-Thomas Solomon, Gentleman Adventurer.
by TheLoneDavid on Jan 24, 2012 9:37 PM EST up reply actions
yeah I think think
the Braves, Phillies, and probably Marlins are better. Maybe a wild card? My guess is I’m probably expecting less out of Strasburg and Zimmerman than you.
I'm a big fan of the Z men
I’m not expecting Strasburg to be the next Cy Young, but I think Zimmermann (the extra n is for Nasty) takes a step forward and becomes one of the premier pitchers in the NL.
"There's something out there, beyond the horizon in the corner of your eye. I'm going to find out what it is."
-Thomas Solomon, Gentleman Adventurer.
by TheLoneDavid on Jan 24, 2012 9:45 PM EST up reply actions
Trivia Time!
After this off-season’s movements there are only 5 players who are still with their original team and have played for 10 or more seasons
Can you name them?
And does it have to be full seasons?
If not you can add Brian Roberts to that as well.
by The Name is Dalton on Jan 24, 2012 11:12 PM EST up reply actions
Hah
Well he is still with the team. Playing? I hope so for his sake. I’ve had a couple concussions and it isn’t fun.
by The Name is Dalton on Jan 25, 2012 7:34 PM EST up reply actions
God damnit
I totally missed Chipper
"There's something out there, beyond the horizon in the corner of your eye. I'm going to find out what it is."
-Thomas Solomon, Gentleman Adventurer.
by TheLoneDavid on Jan 24, 2012 9:42 PM EST up reply actions
Gonna try this without looking it up, so I'll probably get it wrong.
Jeter, Mo, Ichiro, Helton, Micheal Young
… can’t think of a sixth guy.
"There's something out there, beyond the horizon in the corner of your eye. I'm going to find out what it is."
-Thomas Solomon, Gentleman Adventurer.
by TheLoneDavid on Jan 24, 2012 9:41 PM EST up reply actions
I feel less cool since apparently everyone was listed by the time I posted that
I’m not sure why that would’ve made me feel cool though, really, anyways.
jeter, ichiro, jackie chan
dammit!
by dennet on Jan 24, 2012 10:29 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Hey, $@#!
We forgot Rollins! It’s 7. (Unless we’ve missed someone else.)
by abbreviatedman on Jan 24, 2012 11:04 PM EST up reply actions
So, it's at least 8.
Rollins, Inge… and Brian Roberts is 9 if you count the two half-seasons. You could, I suppose, differentiate by saying “10 years” or “10 full seasons”.
by abbreviatedman on Jan 24, 2012 11:55 PM EST up reply actions
Brian Roberts two half seasons...
… were they half seasons due to injury? If so, I sort of feel like he’d count towards the quiz answer, though ultimately BZ is the judge, since it was his quiz.
I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.
Wait ’til THIS year!
I was kind of looking at full seasons
But we can still cont Roberts since he showed up in uniform I guess
Yeah, my point was more... it's not like he left his team, but missed time due to injury.
I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.
Wait ’til THIS year!
Jason Vargas?
"There's something out there, beyond the horizon in the corner of your eye. I'm going to find out what it is."
-Thomas Solomon, Gentleman Adventurer.
by TheLoneDavid on Jan 24, 2012 11:13 PM EST up reply actions
Probably too expensive for Sox even if he takes one year deal.
by Taro yamada on Jan 24, 2012 11:14 PM EST up reply actions
It seems that Oswalt is too (money) and so is Floyd (prospects). I’d guess Jackson would be in the same boat as Oswalt, but since he’s close, I’d think he’d be in the conversation.
Well, I think the 3/$30 million suggestion is an interesting one.
Assuming we could get someone to take Lackey off our hands for 2013.
I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.
Wait ’til THIS year!
no one will take Lackey off our hands in 2013
unless we pay the whole salary- we’re talking about 2011’s worst major league starter, now coming off TJS. Of course, there is still an opening in the rotation in 2013.
Oh, I know no one is taking Lackey...
… the opening in the rotation is…??
Lester
Beckett
Buchholz
Lackey
Bard (assuming that works out, which I think the Boston FO hopes)
I mean, it’s not like they’re moving Bard to the rotation with the anticipation of moving him back to the bullpen in 2013, right? Plus you have others, like Doubront or Tazawa, that offer insurance on Bard for the #5 spot.
I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.
Wait ’til THIS year!
Like the thirty starts
Beckett and Buchholz are likely to miss.
Everything Must Go.
by Sean O on Jan 25, 2012 6:27 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Okay, but...
I think this is why there is no chance for an Edwin Jackson, even at 3/$30 million… we wouldn’t sink that kind of cash for 2013 for a pitcher we might not need (though, certainly would give us some trade leverage if Bard works out).
Plus, if Bard doesn’t work out, you do have Tazawa in theory, ready to go by that point. I feel like Doubront has to be the piece we trade with the 40 man roster logjam right now, hopefully for Floyd.
So, I can see the Floyd deal (and wish we’d made the Maholm deal) where we’d have the option to bring them back in 2013, but not a deal for Jackson where we’d have him in the rotation next year without a trade.
I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.
Wait ’til THIS year!
I just don't believe that too many starters is a problem
have you seen what starters go for on the trade market? If Jackson and Bard both did pretty well, I’d expect to see us shopping Bard for a stupidly large return.
I think 3/$30 is significantly more than Jackson can get at this point. I think that’s what people were predicting at the beginning of the offseason, and now he has a lot less leverage (except for Boras’ magic voodoo leverage). I probably wouldn’t give him that.
I just don’t believe that too many starters is a problem
have you seen whatstarters go for on the trade market? If Jackson and Bard both did pretty well, I’d expect to see us shopping Bard for a stupidly large return.Has happened to our starters the last couple of years? We need every goddamn pitcher we can lay our hands on, the injury bug basically lives and raises its young in the Boston clubhouse.
Fixed
"There's something out there, beyond the horizon in the corner of your eye. I'm going to find out what it is."
-Thomas Solomon, Gentleman Adventurer.
by TheLoneDavid on Jan 25, 2012 5:01 PM EST up reply actions
Yes, I agree with both of you.
Just feel like the front offices in baseball don’t… which is weird to me. Certainly, stockpiling all the SPs you can sign, and flipping the ones you have as extra (even if it’s your #3 guy) for the haul you can get from pitching starving teams seems like a good way to exploit the system.
I mean, look at SPs as a commodity… we clearly have the cash, so we sign both Oswalt and Jackson, trade for Floyd. Now we have too many starters, and gave up Doubront/Lars/Expo for Floyd (I can dream…), then when we break camp with our rotation six or seven deep, and someone else had a Chris Carpenter season ending injury in their rotation, we flip them the guy they’ll overpay for.
If we have the resources of the Boston Red Sox, why aren’t we doing this??
I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.
Wait ’til THIS year!
Because it might discourage FAs from coming here?
That’s the only reason I could think of.
"There's something out there, beyond the horizon in the corner of your eye. I'm going to find out what it is."
-Thomas Solomon, Gentleman Adventurer.
by TheLoneDavid on Jan 25, 2012 9:55 PM EST up reply actions
Well if you read Bobby V's statement about Bard to the rotation
when it was first revealed, he said they were only going to let Bard get to the 18-20 inning threshhold in ST and then sitting down and discussing where the team is, how he’s performing, etc. If he performs really poorly as a starter, they can move him back into the bullpen.
by aubatron2011 on Jan 25, 2012 12:03 PM EST up reply actions
And our rotation becomes... what exactly?
Bard is a starter, no matter what. We have no other options.
Everything Must Go.
well probably a see-who-sticks amongst
Cook, Doubront, Tazawa, Padilla, etc. to see if anyone has what it takes to be a fifth starter. Probably not ideal, but we’re just talking fifth starter (this is, of course, still assuming that we’re only talking about a fifth starter and not a fourth and fifth starter). We’ve got a good amount of depth down there at least.
I mean, it’s not like they’re moving Bard to the rotation with the anticipation of moving him back to the bullpen in 2013, right?
I’m uncomfortable with the implication that there was this much of a plan. I’m imagining Bobby V and Cherington waking up in a Vegas hotel room a’la The Hangover, and finding “JOSH DANIEL BARD WUB B A AWESUM STRTR” scrawled on a mirror in lipstick. And you know what else? They can’t find Normandin and there’s a fucking tiger in the bathroom!
The Year of Extreme Opinions
BLAAAAAAARGH OMFG SIGN STARTERS!!
I apologize if this post has offended you in any way. Please retroactively ignore it. Thank you for your consideration.
by nuthinboutnuthin on Jan 25, 2012 12:55 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Well, you know where I sit on the concept that there was a plan, right?
I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.
Wait ’til THIS year!
You seem skeptical
The Year of Extreme Opinions
BLAAAAAAARGH OMFG SIGN STARTERS!!
I apologize if this post has offended you in any way. Please retroactively ignore it. Thank you for your consideration.
by nuthinboutnuthin on Jan 25, 2012 2:32 PM EST up reply actions
A little bit.
(and that’s a bit of an understatement itself)
I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.
Wait ’til THIS year!
And having finished reading the comment, I have to rec it.
Love the idea of Normandin in the wolf pack…
I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.
Wait ’til THIS year!
Ken Rosenthal also indicates that Red Sox could be interested in Jackson only if one year deal.
But I’m not sure his price tag will drop to price of Oswalt(around $8M/1year?).
by Taro yamada on Jan 25, 2012 12:01 AM EST up reply actions
Assuming Oswalt stays at $8 million, now that the rumors have him asking for $10 million.
I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.
Wait ’til THIS year!
I'm not sure I buy that
There was one rumor that he might be looking for $10 million, as far as I saw, and it doesn’t seem like there’s been any great clamoring for him in the baseball world (outside of here). I have a feeling that $8 million and a starting job would still get him (If he’ll come to Boston)
I really do hope so.
However… the idea that he’s calling the Reds to ask them to sign him, turning down the Tigers for reasons we don’t know (they only offered him $8 million?), and remains unsigned (Nationals missed their big prize, so could they swoop in here?), along with all the evidence of our offseason so far…
I’m just really nervous right now. We shall see what deal Ben pulls to move our 40 man roster around (I have to think Doubront and maybe Lars get moved here, but for how much??), and I want Oswalt, but I think with the roster logjam requiring a trade to clean it up, maybe we’re looking at Floyd or someone else.
I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.
Wait ’til THIS year!

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