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Roy Oswalt Rejects Tigers; Boston Bound?

Danny Knobler dropped a potential hint about free agent pitcher Roy Oswalt's future earlier today. On Twitter, Knobler pointed out that the Oswalt market was officially down one Detroit team:

On Oswalt, I hear the Tigers were very interested (even had Verlander call him), but he didn't want to go to Detroit. May land in Boston.

Justin Verlander's pitch to Oswalt wasn't anywhere near as successful as the ones that helped him win both MVP and Cy Young honors in 2011. Whatever he said likely wasn't enough to sway Oswalt thanks to the righties most recent team -- "Hey, Roy, if you come to Detroit we'll have... well, one ace. It's just me, really. And every other start, Max." -- but the Red Sox appear to still be in on him.

Oswalt is running out of both teams able to sign him and time to be picked up, as it's approaching late January. Boston's trade of Marco Scutaro opened up some money and the possibility that Oswalt could be added to the Red Sox' rotation. A Jon Lester, Josh Beckett, Clay Buchholz, Roy Oswalt top four, even with the injury concerns involved, would be mighty impressive, especially in concert with the team's most likely devastating lineup.

That would leave the fifth spot open for competition -- it's sort of assumed that's a contest Daniel Bard will win, but he does have to beat out Vicente Padilla, Aaron Cook, and maybe even Alfredo Aceves to do it. Just one question mark on Opening Day beats the two the Red Sox have sans Oswalt, though, and the effect of his existence in the rotation would both improve the bullpen and the team's overall starting pitching depth, too.

There's no word yet on how intense discussions between Oswalt and the Red Sox are, or any feeling for when a deal could be in place (if at all), but one more quality starter would go a long way for this team.

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I’m not sure why, and I know is wrong, but in the back of my head I’m wondering if Bard is being shopped.

The 2011 Over the Monster Gedman League Fantasy Baseball Champion

I hate free agency

by gizmosandy on Jan 23, 2012 1:23 PM EST reply actions  

Sign Oswalt

send Bard/Iglesias/Doubront/Hassan to CWS for Floyd/Alexei

"There's something out there, beyond the horizon in the corner of your eye. I'm going to find out what it is."
-Thomas Solomon, Gentleman Adventurer.

by TheLoneDavid on Jan 23, 2012 1:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Oswalt and floyd would make us the favorites

The 2011 Over the Monster Gedman League Fantasy Baseball Champion

I hate free agency

by gizmosandy on Jan 23, 2012 1:31 PM EST up reply actions  

It's the only way this offseason makes any sense.

And we upgrade at SS, our only holes are at the corner outfield spots.

"There's something out there, beyond the horizon in the corner of your eye. I'm going to find out what it is."
-Thomas Solomon, Gentleman Adventurer.

by TheLoneDavid on Jan 23, 2012 1:32 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't think we'd really get good value for Bard

I feel like any potential buyers would say “soooo they have this good pitcher, but they want to trade him rather than have him start or close… why???”

by wolf9309 on Jan 23, 2012 1:43 PM EST up reply actions  

It would be great, but I can't see it happening.

Bard gives us too much value for the money, and the door is wide open for Iglesias this year or, more likely, next.

by dsharp on Jan 23, 2012 1:33 PM EST up reply actions  

does he really?

The 2011 Over the Monster Gedman League Fantasy Baseball Champion

I hate free agency

by gizmosandy on Jan 23, 2012 1:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Just entertain, for a moment

That Bard can convert to being a starter. They have him under control for four more years, at pre-free agency prices. If they chose to extend him a la Lester/Buchholz to buy out his arb years and maybe some free agency (at whatever rate it is he would deserve in this situation), he would likely be cheaper than whatever he should be getting.

This is obviously a major “if” situation, but giving up Bard, who if he can succeed as a starter could be a pretty big bargain, isn’t something I’m keen on.

by Marc Normandin on Jan 23, 2012 1:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Can this team afford many more ifs?

The 2011 Over the Monster Gedman League Fantasy Baseball Champion

I hate free agency

by gizmosandy on Jan 23, 2012 1:38 PM EST up reply actions  

we shall see

The 2011 Over the Monster Gedman League Fantasy Baseball Champion

I hate free agency

by gizmosandy on Jan 23, 2012 1:43 PM EST up reply actions  

well yeah, if it's the 5th spot

because if we have 4 other pitchers, we only need to dig through the Doubront/Cook/Padilla/Silva/Aceves scrap heap for one more starter, which is a reasonable gamble because of the potential gains.

If we don’t have 4 other starting pitchers, then we’re likely screwed.

by wolf9309 on Jan 23, 2012 1:45 PM EST up reply actions  

most of theose guys will be gone before april is over with the opt outs

The 2011 Over the Monster Gedman League Fantasy Baseball Champion

I hate free agency

by gizmosandy on Jan 23, 2012 1:45 PM EST up reply actions  

I think by then there'll be a reasonable idea of whether Bard can start

my guess is that Cook stays, at least up to his June 1 opt out. Doubront will likely be there, along with Mortensen, Miller, and Aceves (I know, none sound great), and Dice-K seems to be on pace to return for the second half.

by wolf9309 on Jan 23, 2012 1:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Only if they don't provide Colon/Garcia type

results by their opt out dates, in which case it was a good effort, good bye, have a nice life. Hopefully one or two can step up.

by GerryT on Jan 23, 2012 7:45 PM EST up reply actions  

BIG ASS IF

Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.

@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
OTM | Silver Seven

by Bloggy on Jan 23, 2012 4:56 PM EST up reply actions  

Can Bard play short?

The Year of Extreme Opinions
BLAAAAAAARGH OMFG SIGN STARTERS!!
I apologize if this post has offended you in any way. Please retroactively ignore it. Thank you for your consideration.

by nuthinboutnuthin on Jan 23, 2012 5:46 PM EST up reply actions  

I thought we were freeing up money to go get Hanley for SS.

(Please, Ben… I was just kidding!! Nobody wants this any more.)

I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.

Wait ’til THIS year!

by AlohaSox on Jan 23, 2012 7:10 PM EST up reply actions  

I kind of want to dump all of Theo's "pet projects"

Except Adrian, Adrian can stay.

Iglesias and Salty need to be shown the door though.

"There's something out there, beyond the horizon in the corner of your eye. I'm going to find out what it is."
-Thomas Solomon, Gentleman Adventurer.

by TheLoneDavid on Jan 23, 2012 7:57 PM EST up reply actions  

And sadly... I then read that Robert57 does want Hanley.

Oh, poor misguided soul.

I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.

Wait ’til THIS year!

by AlohaSox on Jan 23, 2012 9:05 PM EST up reply actions  

If we have Alexei, what do we need Iglesias for?

"There's something out there, beyond the horizon in the corner of your eye. I'm going to find out what it is."
-Thomas Solomon, Gentleman Adventurer.

by TheLoneDavid on Jan 23, 2012 1:35 PM EST up reply actions  

what alexi make

The 2011 Over the Monster Gedman League Fantasy Baseball Champion

I hate free agency

by gizmosandy on Jan 23, 2012 1:38 PM EST up reply actions  

The sudden frugality...

… reminds me very much of an old SNL skit with Steve Martin and Sting about James Bond without the expense account.

The Year of Extreme Opinions
BLAAAAAAARGH OMFG SIGN STARTERS!!
I apologize if this post has offended you in any way. Please retroactively ignore it. Thank you for your consideration.

by nuthinboutnuthin on Jan 23, 2012 2:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Alexi

Yeah, he signed an extension for 4/32.5 (2012 thru 2015)…but he only makes $5M in 2012. Floyd+Alexi = $12M in 2012. Bard+Iglesias+Scutaro is about $10M in 2012 I believe. I’d love this, but I dont find it likely.

by The Laser Show on Jan 23, 2012 1:54 PM EST up reply actions  

But don't you go by AAV, not his 2012 salary?

So his count against the salary cap would be $8 million, which is a bit more than the guy we just shipped to dump salary.

I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.

Wait ’til THIS year!

by AlohaSox on Jan 23, 2012 1:57 PM EST up reply actions  

AAV

Yeah, good point. I forgot about that.
I assume club or player options dont figure in the AAV calculation?

Also, as far as Gavin Floyd, his current contract was signed for 4 yrs, $15.5M. Does that mean his 2012 luxury tax value on the Red Sox would be just $3.75M, or would it be $7M (his 2012 salary)?

by The Laser Show on Jan 23, 2012 2:06 PM EST up reply actions  

I believe less than $7 million, but $3.75 sounds lower than what I'd heard.

That’s why the trade rumors were originally questioned (why give up prospects for $7 million when you could sign Oswalt for $8 million), but then the AAV popped out around $4 million, and suddenly Floyd made a lot of sense.

I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.

Wait ’til THIS year!

by AlohaSox on Jan 23, 2012 2:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Club options don't count

but the buyout is added in

Player options do count- it’s basically the average of the money they’re guaranteed, and a player option is a guaranteed year.

Luxury tax value would be $3.75 million

by wolf9309 on Jan 23, 2012 2:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Thanks

Thanks for the info.
So for luxury tax purposes, Floyd would be $3.875M (3.75 was a quick math fail) and Alexi would be $8.375M. Total tax implication is just over $12M, which coincidentally is about the same as their total 2012 salaries.

by The Laser Show on Jan 23, 2012 2:24 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't know what he is.

He’s not a starter, but the FO has made it clear he won’t be a reliever.

"There's something out there, beyond the horizon in the corner of your eye. I'm going to find out what it is."
-Thomas Solomon, Gentleman Adventurer.

by TheLoneDavid on Jan 23, 2012 3:43 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't know about that

they’ve made it clear they’ll give him a chance to be a starter. If he can’t then we’ve got a pretty amazing bullpen for a few years to come. If he can, then cool.

by wolf9309 on Jan 23, 2012 3:46 PM EST up reply actions  

By the way, I'm happy to see your prediction of Oswalt to Detroit looks dead...

… that made too much sense to me, and I’m happy to see him walking away from the Tigers. I won’t be perfectly happy, though, until I see him signed in Boston.

I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.

Wait ’til THIS year!

by AlohaSox on Jan 23, 2012 2:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Yup

I was sure Dombrowski was going to get him.

"There's something out there, beyond the horizon in the corner of your eye. I'm going to find out what it is."
-Thomas Solomon, Gentleman Adventurer.

by TheLoneDavid on Jan 23, 2012 2:02 PM EST up reply actions  

I think it's likely he comes here, even before this story came out

That said, why would you rather pitch in Fenway Park and the AL East instead of pitch for the Tigers and their larger stadium?

by South Coast Ghost on Jan 23, 2012 1:29 PM EST reply actions  

Might be a preference for the non-baseball parts of signing a deal

New England over Michigan? Boston over Detroit? Maybe he likes Boston’s chances to go somewhere better, or would like to work with Valentine. There’s a lot that goes into these decisions, even if money is the most obvious thing we see.

by Marc Normandin on Jan 23, 2012 1:31 PM EST up reply actions  

I like it when guys choose Boston over other places.

I mean, that last guy turned down the glitz and glamor of L.A. to come to Boston to win, and how’d that turn out… wait, CC didn’t do well here?

I’m kidding, of course. I think this speaks to Oswalt as a competitor. He knows he’ll be on the big stage in Boston, he’ll be competing in the postseason, and in the toughest division in baseball. He wants a longer term deal next offseason, and I’ve been saying this for weeks… what better way to prove you can pitch anywhere than by coming to the AL East and doing well.

I think he’s got a chip on his shoulder and wants to show that he’s still got it, and deserves the longer term deal.

I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.

Wait ’til THIS year!

by AlohaSox on Jan 23, 2012 2:00 PM EST up reply actions  

I dunno

I hear the detroit housing market is a buyer’s market….

by toonman on Jan 23, 2012 3:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Tigers offense is in big trouble without Victor

they should sign Manny

The 2011 Over the Monster Gedman League Fantasy Baseball Champion

I hate free agency

by gizmosandy on Jan 23, 2012 1:31 PM EST up reply actions  

They should trade us for Crawford.

"There's something out there, beyond the horizon in the corner of your eye. I'm going to find out what it is."
-Thomas Solomon, Gentleman Adventurer.

by TheLoneDavid on Jan 23, 2012 1:33 PM EST up reply actions  

The Indians...

…are the only real competition, it seems. The Royals are a year away from being truly interesting, and the White Sox and Twins don’t look good. The Twins might have the upside — if all stay healthy — to challenge, but that would probably take the division winner only getting like 86 wins.

by UltimateCranston on Jan 23, 2012 2:27 PM EST up reply actions  

one potential idea

is that he already has a deal in principle with the Sox (or someone else)

by wolf9309 on Jan 23, 2012 1:46 PM EST up reply actions  

I hope Roy is on his way

I will not go into this year expecting 200 innings at Cy Young level pitching. But he would be so much better than Lackey, Miller, Wakefield, Wieland, etc and Starting pitching really was the biggest weakness of this club.

by The Name is Dalton on Jan 23, 2012 1:35 PM EST reply actions  

Oh absolutely

We don’t even need 200 innings of elite pitching from Oswalt, 180+ of good-to-very good pitching will suffice.

It sure as well would have last year.

Hi ho, Duke!

by The Duke of Silver on Jan 23, 2012 1:43 PM EST up reply actions  

Depending on his price, I'm sure there's other teams interested

Frankly, I’m surprised the Nationals haven’t been more involved with him- seems perfect guy to help mentor their emerging aces and maybe help them actually win.

by wolf9309 on Jan 23, 2012 1:53 PM EST up reply actions  

See, this is the other team lurking out there that makes me nervous.

When TLD first suggested Detroit, I thought that might be a logical destination, so I’m happy to see them off the board (well, hopefully)… but the Nationals would make more sense than coming the AL East, as much as I want to see it. Not only would it be a weaker offensive division, he’d get a chance to go against the Phillies too.

I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.

Wait ’til THIS year!

by AlohaSox on Jan 23, 2012 2:15 PM EST up reply actions  

That's probably because they seem to be the favorites for Fielder.

Similar to the Rangers. When they hadn’t signed Darvish, there was talk if things had fell apart with him, they might go out and sign Oswalt for one year, and make a big play for Fielder. With Fielder not signed yet, they might not be able to fit Oswalt into their budget. I don’t their financials, but they may just be waiting to see who they can add if they sign Prince.

by aubatron2011 on Jan 23, 2012 2:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Then let's get Oswalt signed, before they figure it out.

Maybe they want Edwin Jackson anyway?

I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.

Wait ’til THIS year!

by AlohaSox on Jan 23, 2012 3:07 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree about signing Oswalt now,

but from what I’ve been reading, it doesn’t sound like Fielder isn’t signing anytime soon.

by aubatron2011 on Jan 23, 2012 3:09 PM EST up reply actions  

English major... having trouble tracking the double negative.

You know, for all the talk about Edwin Jackson’s market drying up… where the hell is Fielder going, and why hasn’t he signed somewhere at this point??

I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.

Wait ’til THIS year!

by AlohaSox on Jan 23, 2012 7:12 PM EST up reply actions  

I think it's between Washington, Baltimore, and Texas.

"There's something out there, beyond the horizon in the corner of your eye. I'm going to find out what it is."
-Thomas Solomon, Gentleman Adventurer.

by TheLoneDavid on Jan 23, 2012 7:57 PM EST up reply actions  

But why is it taking so long?

I mean, the offseason (despite Ben’s lack of effort to sign starting pitching) is nearly over, and he was supposed to be one of the prizes, right?

So… where’s the deal?

I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.

Wait ’til THIS year!

by AlohaSox on Jan 23, 2012 9:05 PM EST up reply actions  

His agent is Boras,

if Boras doesn’t get exactly what he wants for his clients, he’s not going to tell that client to sign with a club.

by aubatron2011 on Jan 23, 2012 11:52 PM EST up reply actions  

I would of thought he would choose the Tigers

thats a big ball park, they did make the playoffs with a solid rotation. Maybe the lure of being included in the Lackey/Lester/Beckett/Wakefield hunting parties is the kind of perk he was looking for.

by SoxAcumen on Jan 23, 2012 2:03 PM EST up reply actions  

I think he likes fried chicken and beer on his off days...

… and it’s been well advertised that Fenway Park has great fried chicken and beer.

I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.

Wait ’til THIS year!

by AlohaSox on Jan 23, 2012 2:15 PM EST up reply actions  

This offseason is so weird

The Red Sox dump Scutaro without a deal in place for another player. Oswalt rejects one team without a deal in place with any other. Are the Red Sox just waiting for the AFCCG to play out its news cycle before announcing a deal?

by steel sox on Jan 23, 2012 3:17 PM EST reply actions  

I'm personally finding it hard to believe

that Oswalt would go so far as to completely reject Detroit if he didn’t have some sort of deal in place with someone.

by wolf9309 on Jan 23, 2012 3:22 PM EST up reply actions  

good point

why burn bridges if you are not already set up.

by SoxAcumen on Jan 23, 2012 4:06 PM EST up reply actions  

This

Just doesn’t have much logic to it. Takes away some of his leverage.

by The Name is Dalton on Jan 23, 2012 4:58 PM EST up reply actions  

i'll pile on

this is a good point

by dennet on Jan 23, 2012 6:08 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

agreed

So where’s the deal? I’ve heard Cherington was slow and methodical. Yeah, I guess so.

by steel sox on Jan 23, 2012 6:31 PM EST up reply actions  

So slow and methodical all the good pieces are gone.

"There's something out there, beyond the horizon in the corner of your eye. I'm going to find out what it is."
-Thomas Solomon, Gentleman Adventurer.

by TheLoneDavid on Jan 23, 2012 6:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Eaxctly... near the end of the day, with no deal announced.

Why wouldn’t the deal just be announced?

Or is it because he has to pass a physical with his back, and Boston doesn’t want the fan base to throw a parade that we’ve signed Oswalt before he’s passed the physical? And how would that news not leak from somewhere?

I feel like there’s no deal with Boston at this point… cannot imagine where else he’d have a deal that they’d keep it secret instead of coming out to say it either.

I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.

Wait ’til THIS year!

by AlohaSox on Jan 23, 2012 7:14 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't know...

…sometimes these deals pop out of nowhere. I had heard NOTHING (maybe I was out of the loop) about Pineda being on the trade block and then I seem him in a headline the next day. If he was then it wasn’t talked of heavily.

Trades are different from Free Agent signings, but my point is more that sometimes I think teams want to keep these things under wraps, and in this case to possible avoid a bidding war.

by The Name is Dalton on Jan 23, 2012 7:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Right... except the point here is that Oswalt wouldn't spurn the Tigers without another deal in place.

If so, why hasn’t that deal been announced? If there isn’t a deal done, why tell the Tigers “no” and reduce your leverage?

Out of context, you’re right… these deals can come out of no where. The point in this particular thread is that the rumor this morning said he turned down the Tigers, leading to speculation that the deal is done already.

I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.

Wait ’til THIS year!

by AlohaSox on Jan 23, 2012 7:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Watch, it'll be an out of nowhere deal nobody expects.

Oswalt to San Diego for 8 million

Oswalt to Seattle

Oswalt to Toronto…

"There's something out there, beyond the horizon in the corner of your eye. I'm going to find out what it is."
-Thomas Solomon, Gentleman Adventurer.

by TheLoneDavid on Jan 23, 2012 7:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Well, the Mariners did just trade away a young, good pitcher.

Makes perfect sense for them to sign Oswalt, to let him rebuild his value against the AL West (except for Pujols’ Angels) in that cavern of Safeco.

I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.

Wait ’til THIS year!

by AlohaSox on Jan 23, 2012 9:06 PM EST up reply actions  

I am aware of what the point of this thread is.

And to clarify my point, there may not be a final deal because Oswalt may have two other offers he is happy with and is making his final decision right now. Consider this. Three teams involved, Oswalt’s agent calls and says give us your absolute best offer. All three do. I get that if he DID leak it, then he is giving up leverage if there is a bidding war.

At this point, Roy may be past the bidding war and deciding where he wants to be. After this year he’ll have made just under a hundred million bucks with at least a few more years in the tank. He may not be interested in this dragging on any longer just to get an extra million. Alot of players would keep the bidding going, but he may not.

And to be honest, nothing stops Oswalt or his agent from going to the Red Sox brass and saying, “No, we did not say that.” He may have confirmed it to Ben, he may have not. Unless he or his agent confirmed it, it’s another rumor. In questioning this, we are assuming here that Ben and the other interested teams take Danny Knobler’s word as gospel.

I would assume that Oswalt at least has multiple offers like I eluded to, and very well could have a deal done. But as far as why it isn’t announced, it may just not be final.

by The Name is Dalton on Jan 23, 2012 8:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Fair enough.

Just looking at this news, and our trade of Scutaro, and feels like this should be the other shoe dropping.

Instead, we get Cody Ross.

I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.

Wait ’til THIS year!

by AlohaSox on Jan 23, 2012 9:07 PM EST up reply actions  

You know that I hope it (Oswalt) is the other shoe

And I know you want it to be the shoe as well. And I’m leaning with you, I would expect it to come tonight given the rumor about Detroit.

Just playing some devil’s advocate more than anything.

by The Name is Dalton on Jan 23, 2012 9:55 PM EST up reply actions  

seattles GM had a few young, controlled, impact hitters targeted in a trade for pineda.. (jesus montero and mike stanton were the two main guys) the yankees bit.

by ebtek1 on Jan 24, 2012 8:57 AM EST up reply actions  

I know

It just wasn’t really well publicized until it happened. The only real thing of substance I saw before it was announced was fans and radio hosts back in December saying they SHOULD trade him.

That was my only point. Sometimes deals come up out of nowhere from the public’s point of view.

by The Name is Dalton on Jan 24, 2012 9:35 AM EST up reply actions  

Someone would have caught wind of it by now if they had a deal in place

There are a lot of people being paid to report what the Sox are doing first.

I am Sandy's bitch.

Joseph Vincent Paterno 12/21/26 - 1/22/12 RIP Coach
Penn State Forever

by Rogue Nine on Jan 23, 2012 7:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Would love to see Oswalt in Boston:

would also love to see Floyd in uniform. I am wondering at this point if there might not be deals in the works for both. At 3.5 per and 8 per the deals would look palatable to a GM who needs to make a splash his first season and an ownership team that needs to make the playoffs desperately after last years spectacular/sickening collapse once again inviting a Fan revolt. They can’t afford another “Bridge Year” but they can afford both Floyd and Oswalt both.

by NJ Native on Jan 23, 2012 3:20 PM EST reply actions  

Oswalt & Floyd

I like that idea, and that would project them to be approx $7M over the luxury tax threshold at the moment (assuming no salaries are subtracted in the Floyd deal). Still a bit less than last year, though perhaps not as low as they want to be (especially if they want flexibility for in-season acquisitions).

by The Laser Show on Jan 23, 2012 3:39 PM EST up reply actions  

What I find weird about the whole "cheapness" thing

is that it seems to be happening in advance of Fenway’s 100th anniversary. I feel like that’s a huge PR event that they’d be pushing by putting an exciting team together, but so far they don’t seem at all willing to spend a little extra. Just seems unlike them.
“woo, happy 100th. We’re not gonna win”

by wolf9309 on Jan 23, 2012 3:25 PM EST reply actions  

What I find weird about the "cheapness" thing

Is that they are probably going to exceed last year’s opening day payroll

by Marc Normandin on Jan 23, 2012 3:26 PM EST up reply actions  

thanks for the snarkyness...

i used quotes because they aren’t really being cheap per se. I’m just surprised that this particular year they aren’t pushing the extra bit.

by wolf9309 on Jan 23, 2012 3:32 PM EST up reply actions  

Didn't mean to come off as snarky, sorry.

It legitimately weirds me out that everyone is claiming Boston is crying poor.

by Marc Normandin on Jan 23, 2012 3:39 PM EST up reply actions  

heh no I'm not taking offense

I know I come off as snarky all the time.

Nah, I don’t think they’re crying poor, I understand that their payroll is way up there. Just surprised they don’t seem to be pushing more this particular year for PR reasons- especially if they can get one year deals.

by wolf9309 on Jan 23, 2012 3:41 PM EST up reply actions  

Good point, though...

Look at the other teams out there that have done it, like the Yankees pushing their payroll to new levels for the first season in the new ballpark, resulting in a World Series title and a lot of rumors of a fix…

Or the Marlins pushing payroll for their new stadium deal (and to appease a citizen base that has flipped over how their politicians got played/cut deals)…

Why aren’t the Sox making a splash this year in particular? It’s not like they’re coming off big, successful seasons and a thin profit margin. They are coming off two consecutive implosions and a fan base that’s pissed… so why not make a PR move for a big 100th anniversary season?

I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.

Wait ’til THIS year!

by AlohaSox on Jan 23, 2012 7:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes, but only one of those pieces failed.

And neither of those pieces pitch.

Arguably, we splashed for Lackey too… I’m not asking for a big splash, I just want a quality #4 pitcher.

I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.

Wait ’til THIS year!

by AlohaSox on Jan 23, 2012 9:08 PM EST up reply actions  

I just don't see the "we're not going to win" part

I see a team that is a starting pitcher away from being among the top 5 in the AL. The Rays have great pitching, but are offensively flawed. Yanks are more balanced than last year, but almost identical to the Sox except that one starting pitcher. The Angels have Pujols and 3 good starting pitchers and a bunch of other guys that don’t cause sleeploss. Rangers have an offense that is fearsome, but they replaced CJW with Yu and they have 3 or 4 other starters on Regression Highway. The Tigers have some parts but are far from complete.

I just look at the Sox and think it can’t be worse in RF, LF and Starters 3-5….and April and September can almost statistically not be worse.

Throw the top 6 teams in the AL in a hat and pick one, any of them is justifiable.

by cds7c on Jan 23, 2012 3:32 PM EST up reply actions  

I really do think that if they get Oswalt, this is a very, very good team

every team has holes and questions.

I’m just saying I’m surprised from a PR perspective that they don’t seem interested in spending extra to get people excited about the 100th anniversary.

by wolf9309 on Jan 23, 2012 3:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Same here.

I’ll stop my bitching if/when we sign Oswalt, or Jackson, or trade for someone like Floyd.

However, as bad as 3-5 was in 2011, I don’t think we can roll in with where we sit right now and expect to come within a win of making the playoffs, even if we recover April and September to the mean.

At the end of the day, as bad as our 3-5 was in 2011, we started last season thinking we had a legitimate rotation, including 3-5: Lester, Beckett, Buchholz, Lackey and Dice K. We all though Lackey would bounce back, and as frustrating as Dice is, he’d be a solid #5. Behind that, we had Wake, which none of us thought was great, but as an emergency/spot starter was fine. Plus Aceves and Miller had potential. Doubront and Weiland were the kids to come up…

We then lost Dice to Tommy John, lost Lackey to whatever caused his pitching to fall off a cliff, and Buchholz to a broken back that we thought he’d come back from, but never did. Nothing behind them panned out either, leaving us with too many 2 inning starts where guys got shelled, and the bullpen got worn out.

So, this year, we have even less: Lester and Beckett are back (and I’m not worried about even year Beckett), but Buchholz isn’t just due for regression (our concern for 2011) but coming off a serious back injury that cost him most of 2011; #4 is… what? Bard? and #5 is whatever is cobbled together from Padilla/Cook/Wilson/Aceves/Miller/et all.

I’m sorry, but as much as I think it’s not hard to be better than our 3-5 was last year, I don’t currently see enough pieces to believe we have that solved yet. We need at least one more starting pitcher, and that’s assuming that Beckett doesn’t have his usual injury/even year woes; Buchholz is strong and healthy; Bard successfully transitions to starter; Lester remains his workhorse self; and some one in the depth pool actually pans out.

I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.

Wait ’til THIS year!

by AlohaSox on Jan 23, 2012 7:24 PM EST up reply actions  

I might slow my bitching

But Cherington has lost my trust.

"There's something out there, beyond the horizon in the corner of your eye. I'm going to find out what it is."
-Thomas Solomon, Gentleman Adventurer.

by TheLoneDavid on Jan 23, 2012 8:01 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree.

But I am still uncomfortable the catchers as well.

by NJ Native on Jan 23, 2012 3:36 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm not so worried

I really think that Lavarnway is going to be getting a good amount of playing time by a couple months into the season

by wolf9309 on Jan 23, 2012 3:39 PM EST up reply actions  

not really worried about catching

but I don’t like what figures to be a top-heavy lineup.

by dennet on Jan 23, 2012 6:13 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

That Might be Better:

at least offensively, until we have an average hitter who is still a gamble behind the plate and great defensive guy with no stick.

by NJ Native on Jan 23, 2012 3:43 PM EST reply actions  

until then

I am having a time posting today.

by NJ Native on Jan 23, 2012 3:44 PM EST reply actions  

Can we have a signing announcement soon please?!?!?!?

Seriously. I’m having heart palpatations over here. Just sign Oswalt and be done with it, Cherrington!

by Rick Bentsen on Jan 23, 2012 3:57 PM EST reply actions  

"ongoing dialogue" with Cody Ross

which is great, if we get Oswalt too. Which sounds unlikely.

by wolf9309 on Jan 23, 2012 4:00 PM EST reply actions  

x

"There's something out there, beyond the horizon in the corner of your eye. I'm going to find out what it is."
-Thomas Solomon, Gentleman Adventurer.

by TheLoneDavid on Jan 23, 2012 4:07 PM EST up reply actions  

I tried to find a gorilla

or to actually use Cherington’s face. Only found this

"There's something out there, beyond the horizon in the corner of your eye. I'm going to find out what it is."
-Thomas Solomon, Gentleman Adventurer.

by TheLoneDavid on Jan 23, 2012 4:21 PM EST up reply actions  

I remember at the beginning of the offseason I wasn't the least bit interested in Oswalt

Now…I look at him as our saviour.

Hot Stove Season is @#$%y.

Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.

@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
OTM | Silver Seven

by Bloggy on Jan 23, 2012 4:55 PM EST reply actions  

Only when we have a guy like Cherington.

Kevin Towers is gonna need a restraining order, I’ve been giving him Hungry Eyes all offseason.

"There's something out there, beyond the horizon in the corner of your eye. I'm going to find out what it is."
-Thomas Solomon, Gentleman Adventurer.

by TheLoneDavid on Jan 23, 2012 4:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Well, that's interesting news...

… so next question… if the Cardinals are looking at him as a reliever, the Rangers are gone, the Reds said no interest… is it possible nobody believes Oswalt can be a SP in 2012?

And wait… why turn down the Tigers, if you’re asking the Reds for a job??

I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.

Wait ’til THIS year!

by AlohaSox on Jan 23, 2012 9:09 PM EST up reply actions  

there was no timeline in the article where Jocketty said Oswalt reached out to him

he was just saying that Oswalt’s representatives had reached out to him. Could’ve been at the beginning of the offseason.

Though Oswalt is from that general area, isn’t he?

by wolf9309 on Jan 23, 2012 9:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Hmm

Jocketty did say that they were tapped out with payroll though. Since they signed Madson for right around what Oswalt is going to get, I would assume he wouldn’t say that and then go spend the same amount. You never know in this business though.

Oswalt grew up in Mississippi. Probably 9-10 hour drive from Cincy. Though a few of the teams interested were pretty much the closest teams give or take.

by The Name is Dalton on Jan 23, 2012 10:08 PM EST up reply actions  

well he was also specifying

that they only had room for Madson because they’d already had that money budgeted to bring Cordero back

by wolf9309 on Jan 23, 2012 10:09 PM EST up reply actions  

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