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Gavin Floyd, Financials, And The 2013 Rotation

The recent news that the Sox are still in on Gavin Floyd has brought some hope back to Sox fans after the team's unwillingness or inability to sign the likes of Hiroki Kuroda and Paul Maholm had left them wondering whether the team was ever going to sign a good starter. To me, though, it's more confusing than it is exciting. Not because I don't like Gavin Floyd--if he comes to Boston, I have every confidence he will provide a significant boost to our chances for both a playoff spot and the division title. No, what confuses me is the thought process or sequence of events that would leave Floyd our ultimate choice.

You see, the likes of Floyd, Maholm, Kuroda, and Oswalt are not so very different in what they would realistically bring to the team, though their production might very some. Each of them has their caveats and advantages, to be sure, with Floyd and Kuroda likely offering the most dependable options, but when it comes down to it the biggest things Floyd would bring to the table that others would not are more to do with finances and the future, and what the Red Sox are spending.

When looking at Floyd in comparison to, say, Kuroda, we have to consider the following:

Star-divide

1) 2013 -- While Kuroda, Maholm, and Oswalt are all guys who can/could have been had on 1-year deals, Floyd is even better than that, coming with a very affordable $9.5 million team option for 2013.

2) Average Annual Value -- Floyd's long-term deal also makes his impact on the Sox' tax figure low, with his average annual value coming in just under $4 million. This would bump up to $5 million if the Sox were to use his option, but it still helps keep the figure down in 2013 if they should choose to use it, and that's probably when the Sox really expect to get underneath the cap.

3) Compensation -- The counterbalance to those first two benefits is that the Red Sox will have to give up something to the White Sox in order to get him. As Marc mentioned yesterday, given how Kenny Williams works, it's hard to say exactly what.

For Floyd to make more sense to the Red Sox than, say, a Kuroda or Maholm would have, then, those first two aspects would have to outweigh the compensation. It's hard to really analyze that equation, of course, given the Williams variable, but yesterday I suggested that a package might include something like Felix Doubront, Brandon Jacobs, and Chris Hernandez.

Of course, that depends on what the White Sox are selling. Williams, being a professional GM, likely knows that Floyd's peripherals are more impressive than his results. He likely also knows it's a pretty big risk to hold onto Floyd for a year hoping that he'll have a good year in front of a bad defense when he's entirely likely to simply lose the trade value of the extra year on his contract. He realistically can't get the full value for Floyd's low xFIP.

So is a package like Jacobs, Hernandez, and Doubront worth a slightly lower cap figure and the option of having Floyd for 2013? Perhaps. Looking ahead, having this sort of insurance could be a big deal for 2013. Right now, we don't know whether Bard will finish 2012 looking like a starter or a reliever (or as some of our readers would suggest, with a prosthetic arm), and it's hard to be happy relying on Lackey.

As much as I'm sure we'd all love to dive head-first into that free agency pool (featuring the likes of Hamels, Cain, Marcum, Grienke, McCarthy, and Lewis), with the Sox looking to get under the luxury tax I'd be surprised to see any massive contracts brought into the rotation next year, either. So the addition of Floyd is insuring ourselves against the failure of more than one of the Lackey/Bard/Wilson group that seems most likely to compete for a rotation spot next year. And, should they decide to re-open the wallets, then Floyd and his option could potentially be unloaded, though likely not for as much as we'd like given the potential to get draft picks after his contract runs up anyways.

Looking ahead to 2013 and beyond does seem a bit ridiculous when our current rotation features two of Bard, Padilla, Cook, and Silva, I'll admit. But I can't see any other reason why the Sox would really key in on Floyd instead of any of the other names that have been available in free agency. And while it might hurt to give up whatever prospects would be required instead of just $7 million, when it's 2013 and we're once again facing a budget crunch, we might be happy that our rotation doesn't require another $17 million gamble to insure against the one returning from Tommy John Surgery.

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Well said

The other Sox might also be interested in Christian Vazquez as part of a deal as they have AJ aging and Tyler Flowers offering very little. Vazquez may be expendable for us due to Lavarnway and Swihart.

by BobZupcic on Jan 19, 2012 4:08 PM EST reply actions  

NO

Don’t trade Kendrick Perkins again hahahhaha

"We're not going to give up," It doesn't happen, so who cares? There's always next year. It's not like it's the end of the world."-Manny Ramirez

by revigik on Jan 19, 2012 5:13 PM EST up reply actions  

that's funny

Celts got a 1st rd. pick out of that trade, too. And the Sox could stand to get a pick if this trade happens.

by dennet on Jan 19, 2012 5:24 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

I said yesterday, I'd live with this deal if we don't give up too much.

However, looking at the $9.5 million option, my question becomes… so what was the barrier on Maholm again? I thought the rumor is that since he wanted an option for 2013, we walked away…

There, we’d have no prospect costs and a $4.75 million deal for 2012 and $6.5 million for 2013, if we’ve discovered the Bard Expirament has failed and we need insurance on Lackey’s Tommy John.

I realize Maholm isn’t as good as Floyd (and is gone already), I don’t understand why we didn’t get that deal done. It’s a downgrade from Floyd, but at a lower cash cost, still with the insurance option for 2013 and no prospect cost.

If we don’t trade for Floyd or sign Oswalt, that Maholm deal is going to be the most frustrating miss for us.

I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.

Wait ’til THIS year!

by AlohaSox on Jan 19, 2012 4:17 PM EST reply actions  

Well,

1) You said it, but Maholm isn’t as good.
2) He carries the stigma of returning from injury.
3) Maholm’s deal results in a higher AAV. Get the feeling that the cash isn’t so much a big deal in and of itself, as much as how it relates to the luxury tax.
4) We don’t know that Maholm had any interest in Boston.
5) We don’t even really know if Boston has any interest in Floyd.

by John Leary on Jan 19, 2012 5:26 PM EST up reply actions  

Maholm vs. Floyd

Over the past couple of years Maholm has been about a 2 WAR pitcher where as Floyd has been around the 4 WAR mark. That’s a 2 win difference (about 9 million dollars per). Couple that with age and the fact that Floyd has been successful in the AL as opposed to the NL and you’ve got a fairly large gap

by BobZupcic on Jan 19, 2012 5:51 PM EST up reply actions  

Alright... fair enough.

Still, if we end up with none of the above, I’ll be disappointed we didn’t at least get Maholm.

I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.

Wait ’til THIS year!

by AlohaSox on Jan 19, 2012 6:24 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm in agreement

and if we are going that route – we should sign noone and rebuild

by BobZupcic on Jan 19, 2012 6:43 PM EST up reply actions  

As I pointed out last week;

Floyd has a career winning record against the AL East as long as they spell him against the Blue Jays. In addition, the Sox who are 0- forever against Floyd, it means they wouldn’t have to face him and that itself is big. Had the Sox not faced Floyd last year, it is entirely possible they go to the playoffs. He has excellent peripherals and would be playing in front of a very good defense rather than the disaster that was the ChiSox. I love this choice and hope Cherington and Co. make it happen.

by NJ Native on Jan 19, 2012 6:39 PM EST up reply actions  

With regards to 2013

Lets not forget that Lackey will be back next year. As much as we might all want him off the team, he will be there and he will take up a rotation spot. If we want to go after a guy like Greinke or Hamels, it would behoove us to get someone who will be gone next year.

"There's something out there, beyond the horizon in the corner of your eye. I'm going to find out what it is."
-Thomas Solomon, Gentleman Adventurer.

by TheLoneDavid on Jan 19, 2012 4:25 PM EST reply actions  

Nevermind, you addressed that

I need to learn to read.

"There's something out there, beyond the horizon in the corner of your eye. I'm going to find out what it is."
-Thomas Solomon, Gentleman Adventurer.

by TheLoneDavid on Jan 19, 2012 4:26 PM EST up reply actions  

If Ben is determined to stay under

The luxtaxcap, then this is a good move, even if it means moving a player to do so.

However, if trading for Floyd is not about the cap and the Sox are going over anyway, then IMO this is a bad idea. Instead go for the best pitcher available now (Oswalt) on a one year deal or wait for the deadline when some high quality 2013FA’s start coming available. I am a bit taken aback that the FO shows so little confidence in potential #5 obtained in recent signings like Padilla/Silva/Cook or in-house Acevas/Miller or the kids Doubront/Tazawa/Wilson. I count 8 pitchers for the #5 slot, not counting solid depth like Duckworth or German.

If Ben trades prospects for Floyd he has to use him because of his cost in prospects. If he is the final piece who can keep us under the cap, fine by me. But if we are over the cap Ben would be wiser to either get better now to enhance success this season, or wait for better from the FA class of ’13.

by GerryT on Jan 19, 2012 4:41 PM EST reply actions  

This assumes of course that the club

will be willing to throw around big money next year. Likely meaning the end of Ortz, Youkilis, etc.

by BobZupcic on Jan 19, 2012 5:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Ha ha ha!

I knew there’d be a joke about that somewhere on OTM.

I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.

Wait ’til THIS year!

by AlohaSox on Jan 19, 2012 6:25 PM EST up reply actions  

Oy.

I wish I had a joke…I don’t right now, yet…comment I must.

I might be back later with some wit. It’s hard to say.

Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.

@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
OTM | Silver Seven

by Bloggy on Jan 19, 2012 6:47 PM EST up reply actions  

So is Gavin Floyd on the Red Sox yet?

We’ve already got two photos that proves his pitching motion is similar if he wears white or black.

I am Sandy's bitch.

Penn State Forever

by Rogue Nine on Jan 19, 2012 9:21 PM EST reply actions  

Kinda wondering if David Ortiz

just screwed everything. He demands 16.5 million from a team that has an already stated limited payroll. He’s likely to win and the 4 million dollar difference between the Sox offer and Ortiz could be huge

by BobZupcic on Jan 19, 2012 9:44 PM EST reply actions  

So..

..whad the Sox do with all the money they made when Ortiz outperformed his contract by a kabillion %.? Oh, it went to the Renterias, Crawfords, Lackeys, Camerons, Jenkseses, Lugos, Dice-Ks

Ortiz hasn’t screwed anyone, the Sox screwed themselves and expect us to buy this poverty angle they’re selling.

by Dale Sams on Jan 19, 2012 10:08 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm not disagreeing with you

but taking the vitriol out of it and looking at the cold hard facts of the times – until the Sox clean up this with Ortiz, I doubt they will or can make a move on pitching

by BobZupcic on Jan 19, 2012 10:12 PM EST up reply actions  

Oh, ugh...

Right, we need to be sure he doesn’t get the $4 million more through arbitration before we can offer Oswalt $8 million, nevermind the $10/$12 million he now thinks he can get.

I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.

Wait ’til THIS year!

by AlohaSox on Jan 19, 2012 10:14 PM EST up reply actions  

Wait... he's likely to win?

Wolf made the other argument entirely… that he wasn’t likely to get more than $15 million, so Ben likely takes him to arbitration and we get him for $12.65 million.

If the Sox think he’s going to win, that pushes them to sign a two year deal for 2/$24 million or so, right? Big Papi wouldn’t take an extra $8 million guaranteed for 2013?

I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.

Wait ’til THIS year!

by AlohaSox on Jan 19, 2012 10:13 PM EST up reply actions  

Well consider this

and bear in mind that I’ve go no ideas what the arbiters look at

- He’s the best player in the majors at his “position”
- He got paid 12.5 last year and the Sox low-balled him at 12.65 even after a solid season
- He made 4 WAR in 2011 and is projected at about that for 2012…..at 4 million per win that’s 16 million worth of value

Not saying that he WILL win, just that he could make a very compelling case

by BobZupcic on Jan 19, 2012 10:21 PM EST up reply actions  

Don't underplay the fact

that he is David. Ortiz. It’s not just because I’m watching 2004 ALCS Game 5, David Ortiz is big news no matter what.

Everything Must Go.

by Sean O on Jan 19, 2012 10:31 PM EST up reply actions  

Ha ha ha!

Well, hard to argue that he’s worth less in 2012 than $12.5 million after the season he put up last year…

I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.

Wait ’til THIS year!

by AlohaSox on Jan 20, 2012 1:33 AM EST up reply actions  

Ugh. That stings.

So he went too high, but we offered too low.

So the arbiter has to pick one or the other, and there’s a decent chance he thinks Ortiz looks like a $16 million a year player.

I guess we hope the Sox negotiate a deal before it goes into the room?

I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.

Wait ’til THIS year!

by AlohaSox on Jan 20, 2012 1:33 AM EST up reply actions  

he's also trying to give himself a 32% raise

there’s a lot of good arguments against him.
No DH is making close to what he’s asking for. The ones that are close to what the Sox are offering are considered terrible deals.

He signed his $12.5 million/year deal on the back of 3-4 years in a row more productive than he was in 2011.
In the last 4 years, he’s only passed the 30 home runs/100 RBI marker once.

I think he asked for too much. I think they offered him too little, but I think he asked for way too much.

The basic way to justify this is look at the DH market. While there’s not a lot as productive as him, you can make a very fair argument that at his age, he wouldn’t have gotten any more than $12.5 million/year on the open market.

by wolf9309 on Jan 20, 2012 1:37 AM EST up reply actions  

I'm gonna repeat

a 32% raise. That’s crazy.

by wolf9309 on Jan 20, 2012 1:37 AM EST up reply actions  

free agent arbitration is totally not the same thing as what Ells is going through

plus Ells raise is actually 333%, which seems more fair when you consider that he put up more WAR in 2011 than in the 4 previous years of his career combined. Not the case with Ortiz, who just put up the 5th most productive year of his career and is coming off an extension signed after his very best (by WAR)

by wolf9309 on Jan 20, 2012 8:28 AM EST up reply actions  

Being a year older

And that year taking him another one away from his peak rather than towards it, I think no raise is way more likely than a 32% raise.

I am Sandy's bitch.

Penn State Forever

by Rogue Nine on Jan 20, 2012 10:41 AM EST up reply actions  

I have it in my head that arbitrators

are more likely to side with the player than the club. I can’t say that perception is based on anything legitimate. Just…how it seems to me.

Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.

@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
OTM | Silver Seven

by Bloggy on Jan 20, 2012 11:56 AM EST up reply actions  

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