Someone has to answer for this

by coachluc on Sep 29, 2011 12:27 AM EDT

When your pitching staff goes south for a month, where is the outrage for the pitching coach Curt Young? Oh I know, there were injuries to the staff, but look at the Cardinals and their injuries and where are they now; IN THE PLAYOFFS. The fact is the whole staff went south, not just a few. That rests on management shoulders. Someone needs to be held accountable for this complete collapse. Let's see what happens in the next month. Guess I'll be watching the Yanks and Rays playing playoff baseball. Feels like old times again; MAN THIS SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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I can't imagine Pitching Coach Curt Young survives this.

I’m not sure Tito does either for that matter.

by dsharp on Sep 29, 2011 10:47 AM EDT reply actions

I can't either

though, honestly, when we go through two years in a row where fans are shouting for two different highly-regarded pitching coaches to be fired, I have a feeling that while that may make us feel better, it may not be solving the real problem.

by wolf9309 on Sep 29, 2011 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions

I'm not a "reactionary" guy by nature.

But Tim Bogar is on the chopping block. No question. I don’t know who he has pictures of, but Bogar sleeps with the fishes.

I’m not saying “fire ’em all”, but do we seriously need to take a look at the conditioning/medical component of this team? Maybe it’s body language throwing me off, but Crawford in particular didn’t look to be in the same condition he was when he was with the Rays. He looks…bulkier…or something. When he legged out that triple two games ago, they showed him in the dugout afterwards and he was being looked at by staff with a towel over his head…he looked like he was gonna barf.

Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.

@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard

by Bloggy on Sep 29, 2011 11:50 AM EDT reply actions

Honestly the entire staff should be fired

Every last one of them from Francona to the trainers and locker room staff. Gone. Today.

This is a business first and Francona and Epstein are on top of this organization, their heads should roll first.

Not trading Buchholz for Haladay two years ago looks like one of the worst moves Theo made since he took over. Not signing CC Sabathia or Cliff Lee seems pretty horrible as well. Not trading for Dan Haren or Zack Greinke when he was available a year ago did not help either. Theo let arm after arm go to protect guys who are not going to help the Red Sox for 4-5 more years.

by SoxAcumen on Sep 29, 2011 2:06 PM EDT reply actions

Ah yes, hindsight.

What was your honest assesment of the team going into the season? THAT is the one that matters, not the one looking back at all the things we’ve could of done. Hell, we could have just drafted CC, Lee, Haren and Greinke instead, let’s get pissed at him for that. Let’s get pissd at every GM for not acquiring every star pitcher that comes along.

For pitching, I felt we were going to be fine. Wasn’t unreasonable to expect a bounce back year for Beckett. Lester should have been solid as always, Lackey finished strong last year, Dice might not be great, but as a 5 he was fine and Buchholz was coming off a break out year some regression was expected of him but there was definitely time to grow as well. We had Wake ready to make spot starts, Aceves as well. Doubront was intriguing as another option and we got Andrew Miller in case we had to go to option number 9 for the rotation.

"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.

by Rogue Nine on Sep 29, 2011 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions

SoxAcumen has a point

I know most everyone out here hates me and I’m fine with that. But this team needs an over haul in a big way. No way can you keep Tito, Young, and Bogar around. This team has been taking a step back since 2008. And I don’t want stats quoted to me because you all know I deal in what the box score says. I have been questioning wether or not Tito was the right man for the job since the 2009 season (my first season on here). Now it’s obvious that he is not the right man to be managing this particular team. And no, I don’t know exactly who should take his place. But you can’t expect to keep your job as the Red Sox manager after what just transpired this month. A collapse of this magnitude doesn’t happen by accident. We can’t very well get rid of the players (even though I’d love to send several of them back to where they came from) so you’re going to need to find someone who can make winners out of this current bunch. And Tito and a lot of his staff have shown that they are not the guys for that job. I still love all of you guys and I’m looking forward to a better season (without Tito) next year.

And just think. If we could have just gone 6-6 instead of 2-10 at the start we would be playing the Rangers tomorrow night.

by 75bandwagon on Sep 29, 2011 5:42 PM EDT reply actions

No more misery

The pitching staff in its current status was completely burned up from top to bottom. A playoff run would likely have been very short lived.

by Chris Sanford on Sep 29, 2011 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions

I completely agree

by 75bandwagon on Sep 29, 2011 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions

Or if we hadn't been the best team in baseball in June and July, we wouldn't be playing anyone tomorrow night.

"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.

by Rogue Nine on Sep 29, 2011 7:29 PM EDT up reply actions

But being completely shitty in April and September is why we are where we are. Period.

by 75bandwagon on Sep 29, 2011 9:15 PM EDT reply actions

Sure, but there was more to the season than that.

The core of this team when clicking was the best team in baseball and completely met the billing. We just needed more than 10 starting pitching options.

"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.

by Rogue Nine on Sep 29, 2011 10:16 PM EDT up reply actions

And a better 4th OFer than Darnell McDonald

Dejesus for RF, Kalish for 4th OF.

At least until Ells is done here.

I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
DFA Rev Halofan, The New York Yankees, The Tampa Bay Blue Seats, Carl Crawford, John Lackey, Darnell McDonald, Terry Francona, Curt Young, Dave Magadan, Tim Bogar, Buck Showalter, Dan Johnson, Hawk Harrelson, Jonah Keri, Murray Chass, Mark Sanchez, Micheal Vick, Jared Allen, Jerry Jones, Al Davis, Vuvuzelas, The Chicken Dance, Lady Gaga, Justin Bieber, Stephanie Meyer, and the entire fucking city of Philadelphia.

by TheLoneDavid on Sep 29, 2011 10:23 PM EDT up reply actions

Somehow Darnell stays on my good side.

I thrashed him early last year and he surprised. He pulled through again in the end this year when no one else was. I’m relatively fine if he ends up as OF4 again.

"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.

by Rogue Nine on Sep 30, 2011 12:41 AM EDT up reply actions

I think absolutely 0 chance Kalish isn't in Pawtucket for the start of the year

with this year being what it was, he’s behind in his development from where he was this time last year

by wolf9309 on Sep 30, 2011 12:48 AM EDT up reply actions

This is probably true

but we need someone off the bench who isn’t going to shit the bed on a regular basis.

by TheLoneDavid on Sep 30, 2011 1:08 AM EDT up reply actions

And you are exactly right

But people had to see some of this coming. I’m going to be writing a lengthy post that I’ve been putting together and I’ll be giving my opinions on what I think happened and what needs to happen. One thing I’ll bring up is the ‘79 team. Pretty much the same roster as the year before and they ended up finishing in third place. I don’t think they got over to the collapse from the ear before. This season might have some lasting effects that could carry over to next year. That is why that, however drastic, it might not be a bad idea to go in a different direction with regards to the manager.

by 75bandwagon on Sep 29, 2011 11:40 PM EDT up reply actions

not more than 10 necessarily

but more than 5 viable ones

by wolf9309 on Sep 30, 2011 12:46 AM EDT up reply actions

Not saying that Theo is the smartest GM in baseball

But he did say back in February that they didn’t have enough starting pitching and that he needed to get more. He more or less said that most teams go through 10-11 SP options over the course of a season and at that point he only had 8 (Big Five + Wake + Doubront + Aceves) and he needed to find out where to get the extra starts from.

Granted he thought he would have more time to pick someone up and probably didn’t see Doubront, Buch, and Dice-K going down and Jenks/Wheeler/Hill forcing Aceves into a Bullpen role.

by The Name is Dalton on Sep 30, 2011 9:58 AM EDT up reply actions

and it is something that he had the foresight to see that

but it doesn’t matter what you see if you don’t fix it. And I do think think it was tough. The Yankees were in the same situation; we took a gamble on Miller, Aceves, and Bedard and they took a gamble on Colon, Garcia, and Mitre. Theirs just worked out better.

I’ll be honest, if you asked me before the season whether I would rather have Miller and Aceves or Colon and Garcia, I would’ve picked Miller and Aceves and then laughed that you even asked the question.

by wolf9309 on Sep 30, 2011 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions

and honestly, I would've picked the same as you

I agree, it is a tough situation and in this case came upon relatively quickly. Like I said, I’m sure he though in Feb and March that there wasn’t a giant rush to go out and get that 9th, 10th, or 11th guy and he could pick up one or two guys externally and maybe a minor league guy would pan out over the course of the first few months.

Then as fate would have it, injuries to the guys I mentioned and Lackey’s severe terribleness blew it up into a huge issue and at that point there weren’t as many free agent guys out there and more teams were holding onto their pitchers in case they were still competing at the trade deadline.

by The Name is Dalton on Sep 30, 2011 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions

It was really telling back in July/August that we were

going to have to actively look at Lackey and Wake (with 5 and 6+ ERAs) and later a fragile Erik Bedard as our potential #3 starters because of Buch and Dice-Ks injury.

by The Name is Dalton on Sep 30, 2011 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions