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Around SBN: Trent Richardson Interviews Fellow Brown Brandon Weeden

The Red Sox' Season Is Over

I don't know what to say. This is something new. Something different.

This isn't 2003. This isn't the ninth inning in Game 3 of the ALDS in 2009, or missing it in 2010. 

This is different.

I don't know, guys, I just don't know.

Vent in here, at will. 

DRaysBay posters, sorry, but even if you don't mean anything by it, you're kill-on-sight for now.

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I said it before

But this is the worst baseball watching night I’ve had since 2003 Game 7. The way the Rays came back from 7 zip, while we snatched defeat from the jaws of victory was just ridiculous.

Guess I can give my Braves friend a buzz and wallow together.

by LAEagle on Sep 29, 2011 12:17 AM EDT reply actions  

The Parting Glass

Of all the money e’er I had,
I spent it in good company.
And all the harm I’ve ever done,
Alas! it was to none but me.
And all I’ve done for want of wit
To mem’ry now I can’t recall
So fill to me the parting glass
Good night and joy be with you all.
Oh, all the comrades e’er I had,
They’re sorry for my going away,
And all the sweethearts e’er I had,
They’d wish me one more day to stay,
But since it falls unto my lot,
That I should rise and you should not,
I gently rise and softly call,
Good night and joy be with you all.
If I had money enough to spend,
And leisure time to sit awhile,
There is a fair maid in this town,
That sorely has my heart beguiled.
Her rosy cheeks and ruby lips,
I own she has my heart in thrall,
Then fill to me the parting glass,
Good night and joy be with you all.

Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.

@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard

by Bloggy on Sep 29, 2011 12:18 AM EDT reply actions   1 recs

Great song!

Slainté !

BC14
"Baseball’s a very simple game. All you have to do is sit on your butt, spit tobacco, and nod at the stupid things your manager says."
--'Spaceman'

by BC14 on Sep 29, 2011 12:21 AM EDT up reply actions  

Awesome. Love that song.

NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.

by mmmmm on Sep 29, 2011 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

Collective baseball, I should say

Obviously, Sox-only has some different moments.

by Marc Normandin on Sep 29, 2011 12:20 AM EDT up reply actions  

I agree

It was hell, absolute Hell. But as a baseball lover, the much better story was written tonight.

The story where we outlast the lowly Showalters while going 2 for 11 with runners in scoring position while the Rays lose to Yankee scrubs? Not so much.

I have an emptiness in my gut that will turn to rage, I certainly want to blow up the roster. But I also know I’ll be rooting all in for the Rays. They play so much harder 1 through 25 than we do.

Sorry, it may be a few days too soon for this kind of sentiment.

by alfredo on Sep 29, 2011 12:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

Glad to see...

…someone else actually admiring the way the Rays play ball. Wish Theo and the Sox saw it that way. Can’t be mad at a team for out-playing the Sox (as much as it pisses me off). The Sox could use a few of the Rays players, but they’d probably be stuck paying them 10x as much.

Our f’n system fails us!

by Wicklow on Sep 29, 2011 12:34 AM EDT up reply actions  

Can't argue...

… with that.

BC14
"Baseball’s a very simple game. All you have to do is sit on your butt, spit tobacco, and nod at the stupid things your manager says."
--'Spaceman'

by BC14 on Sep 29, 2011 12:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

100% spot on

I don’t think I’ve seen a night of baseball like this ever. My brain can not even process it.

by pedrewkilis on Sep 29, 2011 12:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

I watched the Rays game

and from where I sat I could see a TV with the RS game on. Amazing comeback from the Rays, made easier by the fact that Rivera was not used in the 9th.

In BOTH games the winning team was down to their last strike.

I doubt I will ever see a last day of the season with that much drama ever again – and the crod last night at the Trop was the loudest I have ever heard.

It really sucked.

But it is just a game.

by flasoxfan on Sep 29, 2011 9:20 AM EDT up reply actions  

FWIW, there was no chance of Rivera pitching

Girardi announced before the game that he would not use any of the pitchers on the post-season roster.
He backed off that position very slightly by letting Burnett face one batter, apparently to see how useful he might be as a reliever. But considering that Mo had pitched the day before, there was no way in Hell that he was coming into last night’s game.

--
"No left turn unstoned"
(road sign created by the Merry Pranksters)

by Paul1951 on Sep 29, 2011 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

This is true.

In the space of barely over an hour – the LAST HOUR OF THE SEASON, in fact – 8 teams finished playing in 4 games around the country and decided the playoff fates of 4 of those teams.

As horrible as the result was for us, for MLB as a whole, that probably looked pretty awesome.

I don’t feel particularly awesome though.

NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.

by mmmmm on Sep 29, 2011 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions  

That was just...

unfathomable.

Jesus. I got nothing. Just an unspeakable kick to the cubes.

Also…Tim Bogar better be gone next season. If nothing else. I want Tim Bogar gone.

Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.

@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard

by Bloggy on Sep 29, 2011 12:20 AM EDT reply actions  

+Many

so many outs on the bases…so many outs

- Matt Sullivan
"I would change policy, bring back natural grass and nickel beer. Baseball is the belly-button of our society. Straighten out baseball, and you straighten out the rest of the world." Bill "Spaceman" Lee
www.overthemonster.com
www.spacemanspancakes.wordpress.com

by Mattsullivan on Sep 29, 2011 7:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Dammit

Crawford, hustling like it’s an intra-squad game in March.
Papelbon, laying one more right in the wheelhouse. Why? “Because I’m Jonathan Papelbon, and you’re not.” CRUNCH. There goes your ego, Pap, bouncing off the right-center fence.

DAMMIT!

BC14
"Baseball’s a very simple game. All you have to do is sit on your butt, spit tobacco, and nod at the stupid things your manager says."
--'Spaceman'

by BC14 on Sep 29, 2011 12:20 AM EDT reply actions  

shaky hands

idk how to feel…the seasons over…pitching pitchin fuckn pitchin….trade xander and jacobs for hernandez/weaver fuck john lackey fuck tim wakefield……….livin in ny the moment i see a rays hat i will maul!

by royredd87 on Sep 29, 2011 12:20 AM EDT reply actions  

Just… What… happened?

by Trashboy on Sep 29, 2011 12:22 AM EDT reply actions  

Speaking of trades...

Can we trade Theo, too?

BC14
"Baseball’s a very simple game. All you have to do is sit on your butt, spit tobacco, and nod at the stupid things your manager says."
--'Spaceman'

by BC14 on Sep 29, 2011 12:22 AM EDT reply actions  

I believe so.

"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.

by Rogue Nine on Sep 29, 2011 12:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

Save it

This was not a great, good or even fun season at any level. This is a team built to win the WS in 2011, not hang in there.

by Scoop1981 on Sep 29, 2011 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions  

Orioles can't afford $170m

So you’d just be a more expensive team finishing in the same spot. It’s Theo’s only trick.

by Sean O on Sep 29, 2011 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

That was pretty pathetic, death at the hands of the Baltimore Orioles.

I was right in the middle of a fucking reptile zoo! And somebody was giving booze to these god damn things! It wont be long now, before they tear us to shreds.

by Poltergeist on Sep 29, 2011 12:23 AM EDT reply actions  

Tessie went to bed before either game was over.

I think we’ll be watching “Four Days in October” tomorrow.

"What's so special about Lou Gehrig? Shouldn't EVERY Yankee have a disease named after him?"

by Tessie's Dad on Sep 29, 2011 12:23 AM EDT reply actions  

Boston Red Sox

Winning Percentage prior to Connor Jackson trade: .619
Winning Percentage after Connor Jackson trade: .259

Curse of… Connor Jackson?

by StitchyD on Sep 29, 2011 12:23 AM EDT reply actions  

Time to give Connor Jackson the "Fredo Treatment"...

Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.

@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard

by Bloggy on Sep 29, 2011 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions  

never understood that trade

in the least

Let's trade Reddick for Heyward!
Herreshoff.info -- The most awesome website since the invention of the internet.

by QW on Sep 29, 2011 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

screw this team

they didn’t have it. i know there have been many discussions about how much heart this team has, but there is something big missing when they give up a 9 game lead in less than a month. I’m done

by JordanS on Sep 29, 2011 12:24 AM EDT reply actions  

Yes

2 years straight didnt help

by michael28102 on Sep 29, 2011 12:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

Being a Mets fan

I know what this is like. I’ve lived it in 2006 when Molina cost us a championship, and then in 2007, when we were up 7 games with 17 games to play, it’s painful now. The best thing to do is just to step away, and calm yourself down. I feel for every single fan on here and in Boston. I even felt it a little, and i’m not even a Sox fan. My only immediate reaction is that I hope this doesn’t cost Francona his job. That would be dumb to get rid of him.

by lupojohn3 on Sep 29, 2011 12:56 AM EDT up reply actions  

thanks...i know we sound like spoiled brats, but damn it.

"There's no place like it, and it's ours." - Stephen King on Fenway Park

by 808BostonSportsFan on Sep 29, 2011 1:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

Well let's recap

Overpaid, underperforming free agents
Lackluster pitching
Injuries
Epic September collapse

If John Henry gets caught in a ponzi scheme, and we get a GM who develops a reputation(accurate or not) as only going after latino players than yes…this is how Mets fans felt.

by The Name is Dalton on Sep 29, 2011 8:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

The only people in the league who understand this feeling

Met Fans.

Welcome to the club. Heres a helpful tip. Find a scapegoat (See Glavine, Tom) and chase him out of town.

by michael28102 on Sep 29, 2011 12:26 AM EDT reply actions  

2011 bretheren

The Braves fans this year might also like to reserve a seat on this bus.

by AGuinness on Sep 29, 2011 12:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think Braves

fans understand it pretty well.

by flasoxfan on Sep 29, 2011 9:21 AM EDT up reply actions  

I feel sick

Please kill me

"We Believe" - Rudy Fernandez

by TheGreatMon on Sep 29, 2011 12:28 AM EDT reply actions  

I want to be a great Dad, not just good.

So I will lie to my son from now on, tell him I’m a Yankee fan. I don’t want him to experience all the heartaches that go with being a Red Sox supporter.

by OzTiger on Sep 29, 2011 12:28 AM EDT via mobile reply actions   1 recs

Shame on you.

BC14
"Baseball’s a very simple game. All you have to do is sit on your butt, spit tobacco, and nod at the stupid things your manager says."
--'Spaceman'

by BC14 on Sep 29, 2011 12:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

Stop

You’ve won 2 world series in the past 7 years. So you didnt win the world series in 2011….neither did 29 other teams

by michael28102 on Sep 29, 2011 12:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

DENIAL

It ain’t just a river in Egypt

"Playoffs?!? Don't talk about playoffs! Are you kidding me? I just hope we can win a game!"

- Jim Mora, seeing through space and time to describe the 2011 Boston Red Sox

by nuthinboutnuthin on Sep 29, 2011 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

nah he's right,

nobody DID win the 2011 world series.

by wolf9309 on Sep 30, 2011 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

no way

not a chance. Never thought I could hate the yanks more but after that tank job…
Nevertheless both games were down to the final pitch, I mean…FUUUCKKK!!!

by Canuckslicknutsak on Sep 29, 2011 1:01 AM EDT up reply actions  

Pretty Funny...

You blame the Yankees for the total collapse of the Redsox…

by robg62 on Sep 29, 2011 3:17 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

I dunno

They did blow a 7 run lead in the 8th inning. AND lay down to the lowly Rays for the last three games of the season.
Probably just afraid of us in the playoffs.

by CelticPride on Sep 29, 2011 9:32 AM EDT up reply actions  

You mean the same Rays who the Sox couldn’t beat in September?

by pinstriper on Sep 29, 2011 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'm not going to make you go away for that

but maybe this is the place you should let us Sox fans be miserable here and just stay the f@#$ away.

by wolf9309 on Sep 29, 2011 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

It was a legitimate response to the comment made

to be fair.

Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.

@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard

by Bloggy on Sep 29, 2011 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

it absolutely was

but I don’t wanna hear it right now

by wolf9309 on Sep 29, 2011 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

To be honest

I couldn’t believe Papelbon blew the save. I was a little stunned when the score came across the screen. I was sure either the Red Sox would be in, or there would be a one-game playoff. Sorry guys.

by pinstriper on Sep 29, 2011 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions  

it was just plain shocking
Nothing personal, but I hope your team doesn't win the world series :)

by wolf9309 on Sep 29, 2011 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

That's nothing new.

Got a close friend here who’s a huge Red Sox fan… and he grew up in NJ! Traitor. ;)

by pinstriper on Sep 29, 2011 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

I know one thing:

I am the Rays biggest fan until the offseason. I love everything about that team.

Except, you know, tonight.

Hi ho, Duke!

by The Duke of Silver on Sep 29, 2011 12:29 AM EDT reply actions  

Digging into my closet...

… pulling out my Bruins sweater.

sigh

BC14
"Baseball’s a very simple game. All you have to do is sit on your butt, spit tobacco, and nod at the stupid things your manager says."
--'Spaceman'

by BC14 on Sep 29, 2011 12:31 AM EDT reply actions  

Beautiful

I’m with you Wicklow.

I have questions about Young, I’m imagining contract swaps for Lackey.

The team needs better conditioning and MUCH better fundamentals. Outside of Pedroia and maybe Drew, does anyone on this team have truly exceptional fundamentals?

But it’s still an amazing team of talent that didn’t quite jell this year. And then sank under the weight of its own expectations, much like the Yankees in ’04, in my mind.

It will be a long cold winter, but we’ll (or at least I’ll) be predicting 100 wins by February.

by alfredo on Sep 29, 2011 12:43 AM EDT up reply actions  

About that conditioning...

I’ve never understood the whole “fire Francona because the players’ conditioning stinks” meme. Seriously. Wouldn’t it make more sense to fire the conditioning coach?

by pinstriper on Sep 29, 2011 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

probably both are accountable

because Francona is, ultimately, accountable for everything. He’s the one in charge of both the coaches and the players. If people are out of shape, the conditioning coach can say “this is what you should be doing” but Francona needs to be the one to say “you need to get your ass into shape, this isn’t acceptable.”

by wolf9309 on Sep 29, 2011 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

except 'conditioning' is almost never the reason players are injured

Lack of conditioning doesn’t cause one to need tommy john surgery. Nor does it likely have anything to do with Buch’s back injury. Lack of conditioning doesn’t prevent guys from fouling balls off their feet nor prevent them from getting banged up diving for balls or crashing into fences. Lack of conditioning doesn’t cause a player’s foot to slip while running over second base, resulting in a strained groin or twisted knee or ankle. Lack of conditioning doesn’t prevent hard collisions at the plate.

The whole ‘conditioning’ topic is just another attempt to find a scapegoat to point fingers at.

People always are starved to have a single face to point at and blame because if they just make that face go away then they can delude themselves into thinking all their problems went away with the face.

NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.

by mmmmm on Sep 29, 2011 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

no, and I'm not saying conditioning is the problem

I’m not qualified to say that. I’m just saying that IF conditioning is the problem, that’s something Francona should be accountable for.

The guys who I have conditioning questions about are guys like Albers, Salty, Bard, Ortiz, Jenks (though signed out of shape isn’t Tito’s problem)

by wolf9309 on Sep 29, 2011 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

I wonder about Crawford, too.

Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.

@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard

by Bloggy on Sep 29, 2011 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't really buy that he has a conditioning problem, per se

from everything I’ve seen and read, he works harder than anyone else on the team to stay in shape. I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s somehow injured though- or it could just be mental. Or maybe Joe Maddon has magic fairy dust

by wolf9309 on Sep 29, 2011 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah - I should have made it clear I wasn't disagreeing with your actual point

I’m just trying to point out that the ‘conditioning’ topic is really a red herring.

NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.

by mmmmm on Sep 29, 2011 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Why do you question the conditioning of Albers, Salty, Bard or Ortiz?

NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.

by mmmmm on Sep 29, 2011 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

guys that wore down as the season went on

and that’s just guys I would question- not saying they have conditioning problems, just the guys that I think could. They’re all understandable to a degree: Bard pitched a lot (though not as much as last year), as did Albers in the beginning of the year (and I believe at a higher velocity than ever before); Salty played more games than he ever has before; and Ortiz is just getting old- but did definitely gain quite a bit of weight over the course of the season (he was still hitting, just his power disappeared, which is probably more a low sample size thing than anything else, like his .425 ISO in August was)

by wolf9309 on Sep 29, 2011 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

I disagree that Bard 'wore down'

His velocity never really wavered (he was hitting 98 last night).

His problems looked like more a combination of bad luck getting in his head and partly some bad mechanics.

I don’t really see Ortiz’ weight as an issue. Impossible to say without knowing his actual weight numbers but sometimes he looked heavier and sometimes he looked slimmer to me.

I’m not sure that his power really decreased. During that HR drought, he seemed to hit some awfully hard shots off the walls. As you say, sample size makes it hard to say definitively.

NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.

by mmmmm on Sep 29, 2011 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Including two last night (or one each the last two nights?)

They both would have been HRs in most RF except for the scoreboard out there that both of them bounced off of for really long singles.

Of course, now I just remembered him running into an out at second base, and taking the bat out of Gonzo’s hands, when he should have just stopped at first and given us a first and third situation.

So much bad baserunning last night (and all season long)…

by AlohaSox on Sep 29, 2011 8:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Need alot of pitching help…alot!

by robg62 on Sep 29, 2011 3:18 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

"Surreal" is the perfect word

Some points/questions:

Is it your wedding or an offspring’s wedding? Either way, congrats.

I don’t hate the Rays, either. But I do hate their fans (or, at least, the SBNation version of them), so I want the Rays to lose and lose bad. If the Rays were in Portland or Montreal, I’d really like that bunch (Damon excepted).

Winning that game and getting swept in the ALDS would definitely be better than what happened last night. Or winning that game and losing to the Rays in Game 163. Or, getting kicked in the nuts by Chuck Norris wearing ski boots.

Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.

@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard

by Bloggy on Sep 29, 2011 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions  

Thanks.

My wedding. Next summer. Saving up.

And part of my bachelor party next spring is a game at Fenway, after bungee jumping in the morning. Hope I don’t get stuck with a Lackey start – may as well cut my bungee cord.

Wish I had the Celtics coming up. Gonna miss seeing them play this winter.

Go Sox!

by Wicklow on Sep 29, 2011 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

Congrats again.

Got married myself in August. A lot of planning and a lot of money…but worth it. So enjoy it.

Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.

@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard

by Bloggy on Sep 29, 2011 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

What day in August?

I got married on the 6th of August this year.

I know where I come from, and when you always have in mind where you come from the rest will be easy. I think the rest will be easy.

-- M. Rivera

by GMan83201 on Sep 29, 2011 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

My birthday is August 2.

I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
DFA Rev Halofan, The New York Yankees, The Tampa Bay Blue Seats, Carl Crawford, John Lackey, Darnell McDonald, Terry Francona, Curt Young, Dave Magadan, Tim Bogar, Buck Showalter, Dan Johnson, Hawk Harrelson, Jonah Keri, Murray Chass, Mark Sanchez, Micheal Vick, Jared Allen, Jerry Jones, Al Davis, Vuvuzelas, The Chicken Dance, Lady Gaga, Justin Bieber, Stephanie Meyer, and the entire fucking city of Philadelphia.

by TheLoneDavid on Sep 29, 2011 10:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

August 20.

Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.

@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard

by Bloggy on Sep 30, 2011 8:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

August 28

"Playoffs?!? Don't talk about playoffs! Are you kidding me? I just hope we can win a game!"

- Jim Mora, seeing through space and time to describe the 2011 Boston Red Sox

by nuthinboutnuthin on Sep 30, 2011 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Of this year??

Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.

@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard

by Bloggy on Sep 30, 2011 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

No, last year...

"Playoffs?!? Don't talk about playoffs! Are you kidding me? I just hope we can win a game!"

- Jim Mora, seeing through space and time to describe the 2011 Boston Red Sox

by nuthinboutnuthin on Sep 30, 2011 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh.

doesn't count

Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.

@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard

by Bloggy on Sep 30, 2011 9:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Damon

I don’t like Damon anymore than the average Sox fan, and I believe the “Looks like Jesus, Acts like Judas, Throws like Mary” is the best sports t-shirt this side of Rapistberger’s “Nose Means Nose” t-shirt from his broken nose days last season, but I don’t think any of us can deny that Damon brought an infectious attitude to that clubhouse that had those Rays guys believing anything (incl. this obscene comeback) was possible. I don’t know if he was the leader or the voice of that clubhouse, but I definitely bet he had them believing in themselves and improbable (think 2004) comebacks!

Dammit!

by Wicklow on Sep 29, 2011 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

The Rays have played this way for the last 3 years before this one.

Damon had nothing to do with it.

The Rays have played 90+ win baseball for 3 out of the last four years because they have the talent to do so. Not because of ‘attitude’.

NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.

by mmmmm on Sep 29, 2011 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Man, you love to disagree...

But what I was referring to with Damon and the Rays was the infectious attitude that allowed them to believe a 9-game comeback was possible. The Rays are obviously talented, with or without Damon, but to keep believing day-in, day-out when your down that many games with so few left (not to mention down seven runs with 6 outs left), well, it takes an attitude and a confidence. Damon may have been that infectious bringer of confidence, considering he played a huge role in an epic comeback back in ’04.

by Wicklow on Sep 29, 2011 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Kevin Kennedy and the other mid-day guy

were talking about this exact subject on XM this morning. They agree with you.

by PhilR8 on Sep 29, 2011 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

I do too.

I think that had a lot to do with our collapse too. So much of baseball is mental, and when you’re watching it slip away… former players talk about even lifting your legs to walk becomes a burden, never mind playing the game well. It’s why slumps seem to spread to the players around you…

I don’t know if the team wore down for lack of conditioning, or as one player slumped, that infectious energy bled away and Salty came crashing back to earth, and Carl never got it going, and Lowrie… on and on and on…

Then you get an idiot like Johnny Damon in your clubhouse, when you’re down nine games and gets you to believe you can do it… what else do you have to lose? Yeah, I have to think that gave them a little ray of hope they might not have had otherwise.

by AlohaSox on Sep 29, 2011 8:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Nice post, but
Is making it and getting destroyed in the ALDS really any better?

I call bullshit on this part.

Damn straight it would be better. You are in denial and lying-to-yourself if you say it is better to not make it to the playoffs.

It is ALWAYS better to make to the playoffs, even if you go out in three.

I do agree that this last month of the season was surreal. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a month so loaded with with such an incredible convergence of probability-defying events all going against one team. It starts with the ridiculous under-performance of so many different pitchers on the staff, but includes all kinds of other things I don’t think anyone could have predicted 3 months ago.

NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.

by mmmmm on Sep 29, 2011 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

All I'm saying...

…is that losing in this fashion is actually easier for me to swallow. It’s so surreal it’s as if it were written in the stars of Hell. I mean, think how improbable it was for all of that nonsensical crap to happen. The guffaws, the drops, the errors, the egregious pitching, the blown calls, and everything else that didn’t fall their way (and all the good play and breaks that did fall the Rays’ way). It’s insanely surreal. And because it’s so surreal, it’s easier for me to sleep at night. As opposed to them making it to the ALDS and getting systematically destroyed by the f’n Rangers.

And, this epic collapse forces the Sox to come to terms with their limitations and failures and actually address their problems. They don’t have the “at least we made the playoffs” rationale to fall back on. Every player and coach and front office person is accountable and should be held so. This epic bag of poop is on everyone’s doorstep and must be addressed now.

There’s always a light … blah blah blah.

by Wicklow on Sep 29, 2011 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

Rangers fans were pulling for you guys.

Josh Hamilton: "I just show up, look at the lineup and play where I’m told. If they want me to catch, I’ll catch."
Jon Daniels on relationship with #Rangers Young: "I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." 2/19/11

by boomer1 on Sep 29, 2011 12:32 AM EDT reply actions  

Rangers v. Sox would have been epic

Josh Hamilton: "I just show up, look at the lineup and play where I’m told. If they want me to catch, I’ll catch."
Jon Daniels on relationship with #Rangers Young: "I’d love to walk in and hug everybody every day, but that’s not critical to us winning." 2/19/11

by boomer1 on Sep 29, 2011 12:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

As an 18 year old...

This is the first real heartbreak I know as a Sox fan. 2003 I was 10 years old kinda remember it but I couldnt comprehend it.
But this…..

I love Lester, Pedroia, and Gonzo!!! ITS MAN LOVE!

by kraken613 on Sep 29, 2011 12:32 AM EDT via mobile reply actions  

Somehow this sucks MUCH worse for me

Maybe I felt fortunate to even still be in that ALCS after the Game 5 comeback.

by LAEagle on Sep 29, 2011 9:00 AM EDT up reply actions  

Well that sucked but we had won the World Series the year before.

I am much more entrenched with the Red Sox as part of my life now than I was back when I was 14.

I love Lester, Pedroia, and Gonzo!!! ITS MAN LOVE!

by kraken613 on Sep 29, 2011 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

08 was WAAAAYYY worse than this

Ok, sure, I was 13 then, but that was still worse. What makes it even worse is having to see those highlights over and over and over again after the live look-ins on Gameday.

Let's trade Reddick for Heyward!
Herreshoff.info -- The most awesome website since the invention of the internet.

by QW on Sep 29, 2011 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

oh man, I can't agree

there’s a lot of satisfaction in retrospect with being able to say “you know, we got to game 7 of the ALCS. That’s a good year”

none whatsoever in this. As someone or other said the other night “we’re a game away from being a trivia answer”- now this team is just the worst collapse ever.

by wolf9309 on Sep 29, 2011 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

At least the Braves get dragged down into the depths with us ....

NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.

by mmmmm on Sep 29, 2011 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

this

Let's trade Reddick for Heyward!
Herreshoff.info -- The most awesome website since the invention of the internet.

by QW on Sep 29, 2011 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Third verse, same as the first verse

I was there for ‘75, ’78, and ’86 (and probably ’67 too, but too young to understand what my grandparents were yelling about) and I can tell you the sting takes a long, long time to go away. After the last game of the ’86 World Series I didn’t watch another baseball game until the last game of the 2004 Series. (No, I didn’t watch the ’04 ALCS comeback. I followed it from a distance, but was convinced—and still am—that if I watched it, they would have lost.)

Welcome back, Red Sox of my youth. Didn’t miss you.

by Orc4hire on Sep 29, 2011 12:34 AM EDT reply actions  

This isn't close to the those

other times, because we have won twice in the last 8 years.

But to spend so much money, and wind up with the starting rotation we had in September. And we had SIX blown saves in September.

by flasoxfan on Sep 29, 2011 9:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

Do you remember ’72?

by JLS89 on Sep 29, 2011 9:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

I do.

and ’77 was no walk in the park.

by flasoxfan on Sep 29, 2011 9:43 AM EDT up reply actions  

My dad just tells me stories about the 70s and the 86 WS, I’m trying to remember what happened in 77…

by JLS89 on Sep 29, 2011 9:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

By the way

On the day he was signed, I said the Crawford signing was a bad deal and that the real problem with the team was the pitching.

Guess what?

by Orc4hire on Sep 29, 2011 12:35 AM EDT reply actions  

+1

BC14
"Baseball’s a very simple game. All you have to do is sit on your butt, spit tobacco, and nod at the stupid things your manager says."
--'Spaceman'

by BC14 on Sep 29, 2011 12:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

You were right

The Red Sox grossly overpaid for a player they simply didn’t need. And because of that completely unjustified contract, the Sox are stuck with him for at least another 4 to 5 years

by Guess Who's Back? on Sep 29, 2011 12:40 AM EDT up reply actions  

5-6

"I don't put any foreign substances on the baseball. Everything I use is from the good old U.S.A."

JVSM

Pedroya Lova

by Dustin's #1 Fan on Sep 29, 2011 12:43 AM EDT up reply actions  

Here's hoping that this worked out like the last time we had a major deal with a Florida-team player.

Beckett’s first year? Not so wonderful. Second year? Turned out much better.

Fenway: "An alternate and better universe, disguised as a ballpark." --Thomas Boswell

by lone1c on Sep 29, 2011 1:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

Also see:

Drew, J.D.

Let's trade Reddick for Heyward!
Herreshoff.info -- The most awesome website since the invention of the internet.

by QW on Sep 29, 2011 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah

And a big plate of “This wasn’t hard to see coming, so how about fixing the REAL problems for next season.”

by Orc4hire on Sep 29, 2011 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

Big F'ing Deal.

Lots of folks said it was a ‘bad deal’ because of the dollars. It would have been a ‘bad deal’ if he had hit for 20 points higher BA. But I call BS if you claim you had even a remote inkling that CC would perform THIS far under his career norms.

Ditto with Lackey.

Ditto with predicting that Dice-K and Buchholz would get hurt to this extent. Or Youk.

Basically, I"m sending a big fat “F-You” to all the second-guessing “October GMs” who post shit like this.

NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.

by mmmmm on Sep 29, 2011 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, well

I’m posting a big fat ‘fuck you’ to all the people who said this was an awesome team and that no one could have seen this coming. So right back at ya, tough guy.

by Orc4hire on Sep 29, 2011 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

Where were you in July?

Go back there.

NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.

by mmmmm on Sep 29, 2011 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hardly

"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.

by Rogue Nine on Sep 29, 2011 3:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

It will be interesting to see if he gets traded

I really doubt it to be honest. He is making $18.5 million, $19.5 million, and $20 million over the next three years. If they were going to try and trade him to get prospects, I think they would not have signed him to that money because it limits the trading partners you have.

by The Name is Dalton on Sep 29, 2011 8:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

I fucking hate Rays fans

I can manage some degree of respect for most Yankee fans…despise is the word that comes to mind when thinking of Rays fans.

by ritz on Sep 29, 2011 12:39 AM EDT reply actions  

600 now

as the closet has been unlocked and Rays fans will be pouring out of the woodworks.

Cyril P
liryc715@yahoo.com

by Cyrilp on Sep 29, 2011 12:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

I got nothing against Rays fans

Really who hates old people who have to live each day like their last because it very well might be

by Canuckslicknutsak on Sep 29, 2011 1:04 AM EDT up reply actions  

Part of that is

Because there have been several Yankee fans that came over last night to give consolation and when one posted something that even slightly was a troll, he had 2-3 other Yankee fans telling him to have some class. I may be mistaken but you seldom see them come over here and post dong pics or make jokes about Lackey’s wife. Maybe throw a headline like the “Best Team Ever” in our face, but I don’t really see that as bad.

It’s just a matter of the maturity (moreso thinking of age and experience) of the fanbase as a whole. Alot of the more dedicated Rays fans are younger, while fanbases like the Yanks, and even other “hated” fanbases like the Cubs and Phillies have more folks who are lovers of baseball in general and have been around through heartbreak. I doubt very much that alot of the denizens of DRB followed the team when they started and were the worst team in the league and showed no effort to improve. And you can’t blame them either. So that thought of “I’ve been there” doesn’t really strike a chord with them yet.

by The Name is Dalton on Sep 29, 2011 8:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

Very well put.

Like I said to the DRB troll last night, before Ben finally bounced him… he hadn’t done anything wrong to that point, but neither had his peers (whom he had cheered when they got back to DRB) before they dropped their bombs.

If a few came over and acted with class, the rest might get more leeway. When the few come over bide their time to drop a big bomb… well, the rest of them need to go away on sight.

by AlohaSox on Sep 29, 2011 8:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

next year

can we also get the other half of A-“GON”…where is the power?….whats going on @ third base? shortstop? right field? closer?

by royredd87 on Sep 29, 2011 12:39 AM EDT reply actions  

Song stuck in my head now...

Once there was a silly old ram
Thought he’d punch a hole in a dam
No one could make that ram, scram
He kept buttin’ that dam

but he’s got high hopes, he’s got high hopes
He’s got high apple pie, in the sky hopes….

etc….

BC14
"Baseball’s a very simple game. All you have to do is sit on your butt, spit tobacco, and nod at the stupid things your manager says."
--'Spaceman'

by BC14 on Sep 29, 2011 12:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

'Night all.

Go Bruins!

BC14
"Baseball’s a very simple game. All you have to do is sit on your butt, spit tobacco, and nod at the stupid things your manager says."
--'Spaceman'

by BC14 on Sep 29, 2011 12:42 AM EDT reply actions  

There is a possibility

That was the last game that we will see Yuk, Paps, Big Papi and Wakefield in Red Sox uniforms

by Guess Who's Back? on Sep 29, 2011 12:42 AM EDT reply actions  

Varitek too.

Brady > Mallett > Hoyer > Sanchez

- beantownboy171

by B.H.Talbot on Sep 29, 2011 12:43 AM EDT up reply actions  

and of course

J.D mudaflippin called strike 3 drew

by royredd87 on Sep 29, 2011 12:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

Youk's signed for 2012.

Fenway: "An alternate and better universe, disguised as a ballpark." --Thomas Boswell

by lone1c on Sep 29, 2011 12:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

A lot of people are wanting him to get traded.

When life gives you questions, Google has answers.

by Bento Box on Sep 29, 2011 8:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

and a lot of people don't realize that they won't get crap for him

with the injuries and that healthy, he’s still a phenomenal player. There’s practically no chance that he is not on the Red Sox next year.

by wolf9309 on Sep 29, 2011 9:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

On some level, I know this.

However, I think they have to shop him to see whether another team is willing to gamble on the top 5 MVP finish version of Youk that existed prior to 2010. While you think he’s still a phenomenal player when healthy, and I love the man… he’s probably a better first baseman on another team than he is with us.

So… dangle him, and see whether we can get a good prospect package back. Either trade for a younger third baseman (see TLD’s man crush on Headley) or get a stop gap for the position until Middlebrooks is ready (2013??).

Do I want to trade Youk? Not really… I’m just thinking in a practical sense, with back to back injury marred seasons… if he has a third, we’re getting nothing back. If we dangle him and get the right offer? Might be worth pulling the trigger.

by AlohaSox on Sep 29, 2011 8:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

One of my big problems with trading Youk

And to be honest there are solutions to it of course and it wouldn’t be a deal-breaker…is that I think you need a RH power bat to hit in between Gonzo and Ortiz. I know Ortiz had an excellent year against LHP (something like .329/.429/.566 I think) but it seems that is not consistent with his career #s so don’t think that will necessarily return.

Pedroia is fine to stick in there once in a while at cleanup and he did very well at it but to be honest I don’t like him hitting behind Gonzo simply because Pedey is one of those guys who turned a lot of walks/singles into doubles with his 26 steals. Gonzo clogs the basepaths and limits that big advantage.

Alot of people thought a need we never filled was a RH power bat. So if we shipped Youk out, we would be even worse off. I think it is safe to say we will have Reddick and Kalish (maybe both competing) for the RF spot so we won’t see a RH bat there. Whoever will be at 3B will most likely be RH at the plate, or at least a switch hitter.

by The Name is Dalton on Sep 29, 2011 9:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

You know... that is one point I had forgotten about.

Yes, we definitely need a big RH bat in this line up. In that case, it may be that we let Big Papi go in free agency and move Youk to DH (with the ability to occasionally spell Gonzo at 1B and someone else at 3B).

Just not sure we expect Youk to be the full time 3B next season… he did fine there, but now will be dealing with another injury to recover from.

by AlohaSox on Sep 29, 2011 9:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Headley, while being my mancrush

would also be a stopgap for Middlebrooks. Headley is a FA in 2013.

I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
DFA Rev Halofan, The New York Yankees, The Tampa Bay Blue Seats, Carl Crawford, John Lackey, Darnell McDonald, Terry Francona, Curt Young, Dave Magadan, Tim Bogar, Buck Showalter, Dan Johnson, Hawk Harrelson, Jonah Keri, Murray Chass, Mark Sanchez, Micheal Vick, Jared Allen, Jerry Jones, Al Davis, Vuvuzelas, The Chicken Dance, Lady Gaga, Justin Bieber, Stephanie Meyer, and the entire fucking city of Philadelphia.

by TheLoneDavid on Sep 29, 2011 10:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yankee fan here.

Valiant effort tonight by the Red Sox. It just wasn’t meant to happen.

I was pulling for the Sox. I think Yankees vs Red Sox games are always the most exhilarating to watch and a New York/Boston series in the playoffs would’ve been classic.

Congrats on a 90-win season (realize that the O’s would trade places with your organization in a heartbeat) and good luck in the offseason.

This is a respectful post. Please don’t ban me.

Cyril P
liryc715@yahoo.com

by Cyrilp on Sep 29, 2011 12:45 AM EDT reply actions  

Trolls after a night like this are "shoot to kill."

Not a troll. Guns stay down.

Fenway: "An alternate and better universe, disguised as a ballpark." --Thomas Boswell

by lone1c on Sep 29, 2011 12:46 AM EDT up reply actions  

No worries.

Fenway: "An alternate and better universe, disguised as a ballpark." --Thomas Boswell

by lone1c on Sep 29, 2011 12:46 AM EDT up reply actions  

Hey now, no worries.

The banhammer will not come down on a proper comment.

by Marc Normandin on Sep 29, 2011 12:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

We were 3-2 at the 9th inning and they were 0-7 at the 7th inning....

Come on… this is still unbelievable. When can I get over this shit?

by Kenmore Sq on Sep 29, 2011 12:49 AM EDT reply actions  

Yanks stopped caring.

And honestly, I can’t blame ‘em. I would have done the same. They’re in the playoffs so why bothers extending yourself?

"Common sense is quite rare." - Voltaire

The Artist Formerly Known as PacoL250
Resident Psychologist and Tech Support at Over the Monster: SB Nation's Resident Red Sox Web Site

by Raj Ghetia on Sep 29, 2011 1:12 AM EDT up reply actions  

Coming from a fan who experienced the other side of 2004:

this will fade. Go find some friends, sit around and stare at a wall with them for an hour or two, and sure, grab the Bruins Jersey after that.

Rough go, guys. Look forward to another good race with you guys next year.

by elyankee on Sep 29, 2011 12:51 AM EDT reply actions  

Totally. I look forward to a day off of baseball tomorrow

Followed by commiseration with friends as the playoffs go on.

by Marc Normandin on Sep 29, 2011 12:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

Drinking and smoking help, too

Although if you tend to be an angry drunk, probably should stay with the weed. Bong hits or blunts until you forget your name, much less the results of a baseball game.

--
"No left turn unstoned"
(road sign created by the Merry Pranksters)

by Paul1951 on Sep 29, 2011 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

The one time you actually want the Yankees win

and they can’t even do it with a 7-0 lead. Girardi uses 12 pitchers, and to top it off, Golson does his best Suppan impersonation(without all of the running back and forth) on the bases. Johnson bangs one off the foul pole down to their last strike.

by lupojohn3 on Sep 29, 2011 1:02 AM EDT reply actions  

Red Sox fan stuck in Texas...

I have caught all kinds of heat from “Rangers fans” (and let me be clear, there is no such thing as a Ranger Fan, it’s only “whatever team is winning within the DFW area fan” Go ahead, try it out, bring up 2000-2009 to any Ranger and I garauntee you get a blank stare as if no baseball was played within that time.)

Yet, I still love My Red Sox. We have many problems (here’s one finger pointing at you Lackey, and you know which one it is).

I hope the Front office makes the right moves, and let’s hope the injury bug plagues some other team next year.

See y’all Spring 2012.

"Why not us?" '04+'07='11.
I actually believe in Tommy Tuberville.

by ttutyler on Sep 29, 2011 1:03 AM EDT reply actions  

I don't post on here enough

although I come to this site everyday. Not sure that I’ve earned the right to really moan here, but I need to put these thoughts somewhere. My take…

*This was not Papelbon’s fault, really. They leaned so hard on the bullpen, and he threw 2+ the other night, not to mention last night.

*Girardi was a poor manager for his club tonight. I know it didn’t matter, but leaving whoeverthefuck in to get tagged for six runs and pretty much put your team in a position to go into extras on the last game of the season is not a good decision. How does that benefit the Yankees? He should have made a move, regardless… of my bitterness.

  • That’s a hard catch for Crawford, but one he makes 11 out of 10 times in TB. Okay, maybe not, but isn’t that such a poetic end to his season with the Sox. Just coming up short in every way.
  • How much of the pitching collapse is on Curt Young?
  • How much of the collapse collapse is on Tito?
  • Welcome to Boston, Ryan. One day’s hero is the next day’s poor managerial decision.
  • lastly – go Rays. I hope you sweep the Yankees in the ALCS… but I suspect Verlander will dice you up.

by pedrewkilis on Sep 29, 2011 1:04 AM EDT reply actions  

From a Mets fan

wish I could say it gets better, but 4 years later for us, and, well…

Hey, at least you guys already HAVE a good front office. You won’t spend 3 years dicking around with Omar Minaya like we did. Good luck. The world is a better place when the Red Sox are better than the Yankees.

2009 Did Not Happen

by cjmulrain on Sep 29, 2011 1:13 AM EDT reply actions  

I get your pain now

I mean, I have friends who are Mets fans, but now I can truly understand how they felt.

"Common sense is quite rare." - Voltaire

The Artist Formerly Known as PacoL250
Resident Psychologist and Tech Support at Over the Monster: SB Nation's Resident Red Sox Web Site

by Raj Ghetia on Sep 29, 2011 1:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

unfortunately

its collapses like this that lead to imploding a team…like shoulda happened to the Canooks after rd 1 should Patrick sharp pick a corner.
Nevertheless Boston teams have stayed the course in the past and been rewarded to the max(thanks Bruins)

by Canuckslicknutsak on Sep 29, 2011 1:14 AM EDT reply actions  

There will be some roster churn

But not a whole lot, as most of the core players are still under contract. it will be interesting to see what happens during this offseason.

Fenway: "An alternate and better universe, disguised as a ballpark." --Thomas Boswell

by lone1c on Sep 29, 2011 1:16 AM EDT up reply actions  

Then again, to borrow from John McKay, when asked

about the Buccaneers’ “execution” following an embarrassing loss, McKay responded, “I’m all for it.”

by ctpatsfan77 on Sep 29, 2011 1:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

90 Games < Success

If Theo says “we won 90 games, season was a success” crap, somebody better dress up in his gorilla suit and pummel him to a pulp.

Seriously, I will pay good money for that to happen.

"Common sense is quite rare." - Voltaire

The Artist Formerly Known as PacoL250
Resident Psychologist and Tech Support at Over the Monster: SB Nation's Resident Red Sox Web Site

by Raj Ghetia on Sep 29, 2011 1:15 AM EDT reply actions  

Not Able to See/Hear It

Press conference, yes? Anything else he has to say?

"Common sense is quite rare." - Voltaire

The Artist Formerly Known as PacoL250
Resident Psychologist and Tech Support at Over the Monster: SB Nation's Resident Red Sox Web Site

by Raj Ghetia on Sep 29, 2011 1:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

No good way to spin this.

Anything you say positive seems forced or a joke. Anything bad you say gets amplified out of context. Better to say nothing at all, or “We didn’t get the job done. We’ll try to figure out what happened, and fix it,” like Belichick would probably say.

Fenway: "An alternate and better universe, disguised as a ballpark." --Thomas Boswell

by lone1c on Sep 29, 2011 1:18 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Pats fans remember 2008 much the same way

Having to root for the JEST to win in order to make the playoffs . . . only to have Lord Favrequad c**p the bed for the second year in a row.

It leaves a lousy taste in your mouth, for sure.

But at least there is always next year.

by ctpatsfan77 on Sep 29, 2011 1:34 AM EDT up reply actions  

So...should I ask why you're even here after yesterday's post?

Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.

@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard

by Bloggy on Sep 29, 2011 8:32 AM EDT up reply actions  

And I don't necessarily want to start a fight about it

(especially not after last night), but I am pretty curious.

Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.

@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard

by Bloggy on Sep 29, 2011 8:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

+1

Let's trade Reddick for Heyward!
Herreshoff.info -- The most awesome website since the invention of the internet.

by QW on Sep 29, 2011 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

I know how you're feeling guys

my Braves just blew it too. Tonight sucked, no way around it.

by mebravesfan on Sep 29, 2011 1:16 AM EDT reply actions  

Yeah, And There's an Irony Here

ATL Braves used to be the Boston Braves, no?

So…um yeah. Weird irony.

Sorry for the crappy finish.

"Common sense is quite rare." - Voltaire

The Artist Formerly Known as PacoL250
Resident Psychologist and Tech Support at Over the Monster: SB Nation's Resident Red Sox Web Site

by Raj Ghetia on Sep 29, 2011 1:21 AM EDT up reply actions  

condolences to you, too.

"There's no place like it, and it's ours." - Stephen King on Fenway Park

by 808BostonSportsFan on Sep 29, 2011 2:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

Get Well Soon

All I can say as a Yankee fan who lived through 2004 is that you should do as much as you can to forget about baseball for a little while. Go watch some good live music, get drunk, go for a run or lift some weights or something, hang with your lady and don’t be more depressed than you have to be. It sucks hard but you’re a good organization and you’ll be back in contention next year. Imagine if you were a Pirates or Blue Jays fan or something.

I’m sure this doesn’t help but it’s an honest attempt. Take care you guys and see you next year.

by Darren From The Bronx on Sep 29, 2011 1:22 AM EDT reply actions   1 recs

Well, The Sox sucked in April and September

Lesson: When you are expected to win it all – winning 90 games is under achieving.
Lesson revisited: You can never have enough pitching
Lesson revisited: When you suck for two months you will not go to the post season
Lesson revisited: MFY

"Man that ball got outta here in a hurry, you know anything that travels that far oughta have a damn stewardess on it, don't you think?" - Crash Davis

by Dave D on Sep 29, 2011 1:23 AM EDT reply actions  

Baseball is the best.
Baseball is the worst.

No baseball fan should have to suffer through what you guys just witnessed, and that’s part of what makes this game beautiful.

My condolences, Sox fans. You’ll be back next year.

Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
SB Nation Denver | On Twitter | Random Music Writings

by Muzia on Sep 29, 2011 1:29 AM EDT reply actions  

I was in my usual bar here in norcal

Had a bunch of Cardinals and Sox fans in for tonight’s madness. Quite the atmosphere. All right all star voting alliance buddies, let’s drown our sorrows, lol.

"Skillet, we just spent $64,000 in that bar. So we're gonna have to get jobs to cover up the fact that we rob banks" -Mouse Fitzgerald

by joe579 on Sep 29, 2011 1:30 AM EDT reply actions  

gross but lol.

"There's no place like it, and it's ours." - Stephen King on Fenway Park

by 808BostonSportsFan on Sep 29, 2011 2:17 AM EDT up reply actions  

I don't think I'll ever be able to trust Papelbon again

He led me on all year with his wonderful redeeming season. I had almost forgiven the man for that debacle against the Angels in ‘09 when I decided I didn’t care if he walked. After this I’ve sunk lower. I don’t care if he gets hit with a fucking bus. Thanks for the memories, don’t let the door hit you in the ass, and I hope they figure out how to test for whatever steroid it is you were taking this year. buhbye.

by Grasker564 on Sep 29, 2011 1:32 AM EDT reply actions  

as a rays fan i hate Papelbon and am glad he blew the season

But who is going to be your closer next season? I wouldn’t trust Bard in that role.

by RaysOfHope on Sep 29, 2011 2:11 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Weiland

or Miller.

I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
DFA Rev Halofan, The New York Yankees, The Tampa Bay Blue Seats, Carl Crawford, John Lackey, Darnell McDonald, Terry Francona, Curt Young, Dave Magadan, Tim Bogar, Buck Showalter, Dan Johnson, Hawk Harrelson, Jonah Keri, Murray Chass, Mark Sanchez, Micheal Vick, Jared Allen, Jerry Jones, Al Davis, Vuvuzelas, The Chicken Dance, Lady Gaga, Justin Bieber, Stephanie Meyer, and the entire fucking city of Philadelphia.

by TheLoneDavid on Sep 29, 2011 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

heh if Miller starts out the year as closer,

I won’t watch the season.

I think more likely is Bard, and Weiland moves into Bard’s current role.

by wolf9309 on Sep 29, 2011 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think it should be Weiland in the 9th to start

with Bard proving he can close. After this year I’m leery of him.

I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
DFA Rev Halofan, The New York Yankees, The Tampa Bay Blue Seats, Carl Crawford, John Lackey, Darnell McDonald, Terry Francona, Curt Young, Dave Magadan, Tim Bogar, Buck Showalter, Dan Johnson, Hawk Harrelson, Jonah Keri, Murray Chass, Mark Sanchez, Micheal Vick, Jared Allen, Jerry Jones, Al Davis, Vuvuzelas, The Chicken Dance, Lady Gaga, Justin Bieber, Stephanie Meyer, and the entire fucking city of Philadelphia.

by TheLoneDavid on Sep 29, 2011 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

What is Morales' contract status?

Do we retain him? He was one of our few (three) reliable guys down the stretch (surprising, I know) and was throwing some serious heat.

NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.

by mmmmm on Sep 29, 2011 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

The Flying Morales is in Arb 2

I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
DFA Rev Halofan, The New York Yankees, The Tampa Bay Blue Seats, Carl Crawford, John Lackey, Darnell McDonald, Terry Francona, Curt Young, Dave Magadan, Tim Bogar, Buck Showalter, Dan Johnson, Hawk Harrelson, Jonah Keri, Murray Chass, Mark Sanchez, Micheal Vick, Jared Allen, Jerry Jones, Al Davis, Vuvuzelas, The Chicken Dance, Lady Gaga, Justin Bieber, Stephanie Meyer, and the entire fucking city of Philadelphia.

by TheLoneDavid on Sep 29, 2011 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Less faith in Weiland

More “Nobody else is any good either.”

I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
DFA Rev Halofan, The New York Yankees, The Tampa Bay Blue Seats, Carl Crawford, John Lackey, Darnell McDonald, Terry Francona, Curt Young, Dave Magadan, Tim Bogar, Buck Showalter, Dan Johnson, Hawk Harrelson, Jonah Keri, Murray Chass, Mark Sanchez, Micheal Vick, Jared Allen, Jerry Jones, Al Davis, Vuvuzelas, The Chicken Dance, Lady Gaga, Justin Bieber, Stephanie Meyer, and the entire fucking city of Philadelphia.

by TheLoneDavid on Sep 29, 2011 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

I do not

Bard’s 2011 is remniscient of Pap’s 2010

I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
DFA Rev Halofan, The New York Yankees, The Tampa Bay Blue Seats, Carl Crawford, John Lackey, Darnell McDonald, Terry Francona, Curt Young, Dave Magadan, Tim Bogar, Buck Showalter, Dan Johnson, Hawk Harrelson, Jonah Keri, Murray Chass, Mark Sanchez, Micheal Vick, Jared Allen, Jerry Jones, Al Davis, Vuvuzelas, The Chicken Dance, Lady Gaga, Justin Bieber, Stephanie Meyer, and the entire fucking city of Philadelphia.

by TheLoneDavid on Sep 29, 2011 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

as far as peripherals

this was Bard’s best year

And his ERA is significantly lower than Papelbon’s 2010. Had his bad streak happened in July, you wouldn’t think that.

by wolf9309 on Sep 29, 2011 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

And to be honest

It seems like Bard’s issues are mechanics at this point so I personally believe he’ll be able to iron it out before April.

by The Name is Dalton on Sep 29, 2011 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

The timing of bad streaks

has everything to do with how this collapse happened.

If only everybody hadn’t decided to all slump at the same f’ing time!

NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.

by mmmmm on Sep 29, 2011 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

As I said elsewhere, this is such a mental game...

I think as they started down the toilet, the pressure mounted on all of them, and they all went down together.

by AlohaSox on Sep 29, 2011 9:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

To be honest if he is healthy

I wouldn’t be surprised to see them give Jenks a chance at it next year if Papelbon leaves and they don’t sign/trade for anyone else. If not him then Bard.

I see very little chance they go with a young guy like Weiland or Miller even if Weiland does kick ass in his first 25 chances. If they do I think it would be a giant mistake.

by The Name is Dalton on Sep 29, 2011 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah I think Jenks will have to prove himself before they'd give him a shot

Woudn’t be shocked if they re-signed Paps, but he’s made it very easy to say goodbye if they don’t

by wolf9309 on Sep 29, 2011 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think they'll bring him back.

Maybe even a one year deal? I mean, is there anyone else out there that’s going to throw money at him?

by AlohaSox on Sep 29, 2011 9:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Papelbon?

definitely. He had a great year.

by wolf9309 on Sep 30, 2011 12:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

I doubt very highly

that Papelbon signs a one-year deal.

Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.

@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard

by Bloggy on Sep 30, 2011 8:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

It happens

The greatest reliever blew a save in Game 7 of the World Series, and let the Red Sox off the hook in 2004.

by flasoxfan on Sep 29, 2011 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

it's true

though it probably doesn’t help his case much that he admitted that he got too amped up being in that situation and was overthrowing. Accountability is nice, but no one wants a closer that’s overthrowing because he’s in a critical situation. That said, Papelbon was just great this year, and I’m sure he’ll be great for whatever team he’s on next year.

by wolf9309 on Sep 29, 2011 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions  

That's really the worst part

Papelbon was awesome this year, and I know it makes the Sox weaker to let him walk and it makes little baseball sense. Every time I see him from now on I’m going to be wishing for him to get SHELLED. I hope he goes full on Gagne.

by Grasker564 on Sep 29, 2011 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

One f'ing pitch.

I’m sure a few Yankee fans said they’d never trust Rivera after blowing the D-Backs series way back when, but here we are.

NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.

by mmmmm on Sep 29, 2011 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

I want my 1/Rec button.

Now.

Let's trade Reddick for Heyward!
Herreshoff.info -- The most awesome website since the invention of the internet.

by QW on Sep 29, 2011 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't recognize 90% of the names in this post.

"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.

by Rogue Nine on Sep 29, 2011 1:49 AM EDT reply actions  

sorrow and frustration

bring out all of us lurkers. Hold me brother.

by pedrewkilis on Sep 29, 2011 1:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

thanks for making me laugh.

"There's no place like it, and it's ours." - Stephen King on Fenway Park

by 808BostonSportsFan on Sep 29, 2011 2:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

He got a laugh out of me too.

So much for drinking a beer together, watching a Sox game this season, huh?

Guess we’ll have to do it next April.

by AlohaSox on Sep 29, 2011 9:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

I've been drinking beer

too bad there’s no sox game.

I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
DFA Rev Halofan, The New York Yankees, The Tampa Bay Blue Seats, Carl Crawford, John Lackey, Darnell McDonald, Terry Francona, Curt Young, Dave Magadan, Tim Bogar, Buck Showalter, Dan Johnson, Hawk Harrelson, Jonah Keri, Murray Chass, Mark Sanchez, Micheal Vick, Jared Allen, Jerry Jones, Al Davis, Vuvuzelas, The Chicken Dance, Lady Gaga, Justin Bieber, Stephanie Meyer, and the entire fucking city of Philadelphia.

by TheLoneDavid on Sep 29, 2011 10:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, I had a few at my kickball happy hour last night.

Where I saw for the first time the play that ended our season, and thought to myself about the wonderful irony of our defensive LF failing in the critical moment.

by AlohaSox on Sep 29, 2011 10:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

Carl Crawford needs to be shot out of a cannon

aimed at the moon.

I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
DFA Rev Halofan, The New York Yankees, The Tampa Bay Blue Seats, Carl Crawford, John Lackey, Darnell McDonald, Terry Francona, Curt Young, Dave Magadan, Tim Bogar, Buck Showalter, Dan Johnson, Hawk Harrelson, Jonah Keri, Murray Chass, Mark Sanchez, Micheal Vick, Jared Allen, Jerry Jones, Al Davis, Vuvuzelas, The Chicken Dance, Lady Gaga, Justin Bieber, Stephanie Meyer, and the entire fucking city of Philadelphia.

by TheLoneDavid on Sep 29, 2011 10:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Lot of Yankee fans here.

I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
DFA Rev Halofan, The New York Yankees, The Tampa Bay Blue Seats, Carl Crawford, John Lackey, Darnell McDonald, Terry Francona, Curt Young, Dave Magadan, Tim Bogar, Buck Showalter, Dan Johnson, Hawk Harrelson, Jonah Keri, Murray Chass, Mark Sanchez, Micheal Vick, Jared Allen, Jerry Jones, Al Davis, Vuvuzelas, The Chicken Dance, Lady Gaga, Justin Bieber, Stephanie Meyer, and the entire fucking city of Philadelphia.

by TheLoneDavid on Sep 29, 2011 1:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yo

I’m almost embarrassed that this happened to us. : ( But I guess this is the status quo of being a sox fan, huh?

Whatever, can we wait at least a week before saying retarded shit like “Blow it all up??”. We’re not the fucking Marlins. We tweak parts and go at it again next year. PERIOD.

I learned how to make a sig just so it can say "DFA Darnell MacDonald". That means it must happen.

by Tai on Sep 29, 2011 1:57 AM EDT reply actions  

You've all said it.

I’m sick. Want to crawl under a rock. I’m not embarrassed to be a Sox fan though. Just tremendously disappointed. Like many of you, watching Sox baseball is one of the things that give me great joy (epic collapses notwithstanding). It was a fun season, my first full one at OTM. Thanks to all of you, it’s nice to come here and talk to people as passionate as I am. I wish it would have ended differently. Whatever changes are made to the team I just hope this experience sticks with those that remain and it brings them back hungrier next season. I know come February I’ll be ready. The pain will go away, it always has before. It just might take a little longer this time. So thanks again OTMers. I look forward to the offseason and 2012.

PS- Crawford still blows goats, and he better get his shit together ASAP. Oh and Ells still should be MVP.

Just F@CKING win....play hard always!

by Fenway302 on Sep 29, 2011 1:59 AM EDT via mobile reply actions  

While I respect everyone here coming to offer condolences

I’m slightly amused by the fact that the majority of you are Yankee fans. It sort of feels like the 20s, when someone in a gang would take out someone in a rival gang, then go visit his family to offer condolences and pay for the funeral.

Brought a bit of a cynical smile to my face.

I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
DFA Rev Halofan, The New York Yankees, The Tampa Bay Blue Seats, Carl Crawford, John Lackey, Darnell McDonald, Terry Francona, Curt Young, Dave Magadan, Tim Bogar, Buck Showalter, Dan Johnson, Hawk Harrelson, Jonah Keri, Murray Chass, Mark Sanchez, Micheal Vick, Jared Allen, Jerry Jones, Al Davis, Vuvuzelas, The Chicken Dance, Lady Gaga, Justin Bieber, Stephanie Meyer, and the entire fucking city of Philadelphia.

by TheLoneDavid on Sep 29, 2011 2:00 AM EDT reply actions  

I don't understand

Lackey, how does his fat ass still have a job with this orginization. Same can be said with Tito(something I never thought I would say) but he managed like a slight retard down the stretch and I honestly just don’t get it. Where do we go from here, I’m at a loss for words.

by rtrblake on Sep 29, 2011 2:24 AM EDT reply actions  

I dont think there

Is enough stem cells and growth hormones on the planet to save J.Lackey. Everyone wants a scapegoat but it begins and ends with injuries and bad luck. If you believe in karma we are owed a hell of a lot of good karma next year.

by OzSoxFan on Sep 29, 2011 5:30 AM EDT up reply actions  

This^.

If it was just Lackey posting the worst starting pitching season in Red Sox history, we actually could have survived that just fine.

But Lackey didn’t cause Bedard, Wakefield, Beckett, Lester & Bard, among others to ALL post ERAs of 5.25 or better over the last 26 games of the season.

In fact, the ONLY pitchers on our ENTIRE roster who DIDN’T post an ERA of 5.25+ during that stretch were Morales (4.00), Papelbon (3.72) & Atchison (1.50) & Aceves (1.14). (Trevor Miller also pitched 2.2 scoreless innings).

The other 13 pitchers who pitched for us in that time ALL sucked beyond the definition of suck.

It just boggles the freaking mind to grasp that SO MANY pitchers, with really strong track records of success, all went into such crap slumps at the same time!

Sheesh – Lester finally had a semi-decent start yesterday, 2 runs in 6 innings, but that only lowered his ERA for this stretch to 6.08!

People have been all over Wakefield for sucking -but if anything, he was our most ‘dependable’ starter – he had the lowest ERA during this stretch (5.25) while pitching the second most innings (24, behind Lester’s 26.2). That’s not to say Wake was any good. Just to point out that most of our starters were WORSE!!!!

NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.

by mmmmm on Sep 29, 2011 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

Disagree to some point.

Lackeys pathetic-ness has a serious trickle down on the rest of the team and here is how…
When he starts you need to plan on using your pen in the 5th or earlier. All of those extra innings on the pen force the other starters into going longer than they should. When Wake, Miller and Lackey were all sucking the pen got destroyed! That forces Lester and Beckett to be flawless because they knew there was no dependable arms left to finish for them.

Surely it isn’t all on Lackey but is certainly did start there and it was constant for the entire season!

by Chris Sanford on Sep 29, 2011 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Still... if Lester and Beckett could have managed 2 good September starts each...

(Like less than 6 ERs against the Orioles in back to back starts, Josh.)

… then we wouldn’t be here today.

by AlohaSox on Sep 29, 2011 10:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

If we could have gone 4-8 instead of 2-10 in April

we wouldn’t be here today.

I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
DFA Rev Halofan, The New York Yankees, The Tampa Bay Blue Seats, Carl Crawford, John Lackey, Darnell McDonald, Terry Francona, Curt Young, Dave Magadan, Tim Bogar, Buck Showalter, Dan Johnson, Hawk Harrelson, Jonah Keri, Murray Chass, Mark Sanchez, Micheal Vick, Jared Allen, Jerry Jones, Al Davis, Vuvuzelas, The Chicken Dance, Lady Gaga, Justin Bieber, Stephanie Meyer, and the entire fucking city of Philadelphia.

by TheLoneDavid on Sep 29, 2011 10:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yup... that too.

And the 2-6 home stretch (droping 3/4 while I was in Boston) didn’t help… nor the 1-5/6? to the Orioles in September.

by AlohaSox on Sep 29, 2011 11:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

that's all well and good

except that Lackey averaged almost 6 innings/start, went 6 innings or more in 16 of 28 starts, and went at least 5 another 6 starts.

Though let it not be said that I’m saying anything good about Lackey’s year…

by wolf9309 on Sep 30, 2011 12:30 AM EDT up reply actions  

I don't know...

I thought we earned that karma in 2010, with all the injuries we had. So, what? 120 wins next season?

by AlohaSox on Sep 29, 2011 9:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

161-1

I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
DFA Rev Halofan, The New York Yankees, The Tampa Bay Blue Seats, Carl Crawford, John Lackey, Darnell McDonald, Terry Francona, Curt Young, Dave Magadan, Tim Bogar, Buck Showalter, Dan Johnson, Hawk Harrelson, Jonah Keri, Murray Chass, Mark Sanchez, Micheal Vick, Jared Allen, Jerry Jones, Al Davis, Vuvuzelas, The Chicken Dance, Lady Gaga, Justin Bieber, Stephanie Meyer, and the entire fucking city of Philadelphia.

by TheLoneDavid on Sep 29, 2011 10:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

That one loss will probably be to Buck @#$%ing Showalter.

Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.

@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard

by Bloggy on Sep 30, 2011 8:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

I've thought of Showalter as a douchebag

ever since he bashed Ken Griffey, Jr. way back as a young player for having the audacity to wear his hat backwards during pre-game warmups.

NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.

by mmmmm on Sep 30, 2011 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's been 25 years since I felt like this...

I have a big scar from the ’86 Series. Tonight, Pap used a dull blade to cut all the way around the outside of that scar and rip out the flesh. This one is going to take a long time to heal.

by ericsoderstrom on Sep 29, 2011 2:53 AM EDT reply actions  

It's 2 am and I still don't know what to do

I still feel numb and sick. I want to throw up. I feel like the wind has been knocked out of me. I can’t even concentrate on anything baseball right now

And it seems like every other baseball fan is celebrating tonight as if it was the highest achievement in MLB history.

"We Believe" - Rudy Fernandez

by TheGreatMon on Sep 29, 2011 5:31 AM EDT reply actions  

Let the others cheer.

It’s nice to be the bad guy for once. It means we have a target and talent (and a couple of recent WS wins!). Now we know how it feels to be the Yankees!

Go Bulls!

Tessie!

by mpetty99 on Sep 29, 2011 6:30 AM EDT up reply actions  

t Myers and for now

follow me on twitter @sternfan10

by sternfan1 on Sep 29, 2011 6:54 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Good morning

Had the most fucked up dream last night….

Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.

@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard

by Bloggy on Sep 29, 2011 7:02 AM EDT via mobile reply actions  

Lester's words
"It’s just shocking. We should be playing a one-game playoff right now," starter Jon Lester(notes) said. "It’s just one of those things. It wasn’t meant to be. It wasn’t our year."

Geez, John really? You should not be playing a one game playoff – you should be sitting on your ass wondering how the team (to include you) chocked up the biggest lead in September in baseball history. What is this not meant to be crap? C’mon – win games by pitching and hitting and defense and you would be in the playoffs.

"Man that ball got outta here in a hurry, you know anything that travels that far oughta have a damn stewardess on it, don't you think?" - Crash Davis

by Dave D on Sep 29, 2011 8:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

Um I think you're misunderstanding him

he’s not saying “WE DESERVE TO BE THERE”
he’s saying “HOW THE FUCK DID WE BLOW THAT???”

by wolf9309 on Sep 29, 2011 10:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

No I am not misundertanding him

I know he is not saying we deserve to be here. And since he is saying; “HOW THE FUCK DID WE BLOW THAT” – My point is they did not play well enough to win – so the big reality is it took more than one play one strike, etc. – they stunk for an entire month when all they really needed to do was win 10 games in Sep and they are in…so no they should not be playing a one game playoff…

C’mon – win games by pitching and hitting and defense and you would be in the playoffs.

"Man that ball got outta here in a hurry, you know anything that travels that far oughta have a damn stewardess on it, don't you think?" - Crash Davis

by Dave D on Sep 29, 2011 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Being only 16...

I can say this is my worst experience being a red sox fan. I live and die by this team, and this is my fist time feeling like this. 2003 was bad, but it was not like this. Not really sure what to do at this point…

by bosoxman94 on Sep 29, 2011 7:19 AM EDT reply actions  

For me, 2003 was a million times worse.

Having lived through 1986, and not seen a World Series in my lifetime… you could say next year (and it would happen), but in 2003… you just didn’t know if it would ever end.

Last night sucked, but nothing compared to 2003.

by AlohaSox on Sep 29, 2011 10:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

I was 13 in 2003

and wasn’t a huge sports fan, living in Chicago and not having any support. That’s why this hurts more.

I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
DFA Rev Halofan, The New York Yankees, The Tampa Bay Blue Seats, Carl Crawford, John Lackey, Darnell McDonald, Terry Francona, Curt Young, Dave Magadan, Tim Bogar, Buck Showalter, Dan Johnson, Hawk Harrelson, Jonah Keri, Murray Chass, Mark Sanchez, Micheal Vick, Jared Allen, Jerry Jones, Al Davis, Vuvuzelas, The Chicken Dance, Lady Gaga, Justin Bieber, Stephanie Meyer, and the entire fucking city of Philadelphia.

by TheLoneDavid on Sep 29, 2011 10:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Right... for someone like you, that makes some sense.

But again… we hadn’t won in my father’s lifetime in 2003… so, historically that had to be worse.

by AlohaSox on Sep 29, 2011 11:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

My dad is, as I've said, a Tigers fan

and they won in ‘84, so I didn’t have that lifetime of futility following me.

I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
DFA Rev Halofan, The New York Yankees, The Tampa Bay Blue Seats, Carl Crawford, John Lackey, Darnell McDonald, Terry Francona, Curt Young, Dave Magadan, Tim Bogar, Buck Showalter, Dan Johnson, Hawk Harrelson, Jonah Keri, Murray Chass, Mark Sanchez, Micheal Vick, Jared Allen, Jerry Jones, Al Davis, Vuvuzelas, The Chicken Dance, Lady Gaga, Justin Bieber, Stephanie Meyer, and the entire fucking city of Philadelphia.

by TheLoneDavid on Sep 29, 2011 11:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

I always forget how young some of you guys are.

2003 seems like yesterday to me. I keep forgetting it was 8 years ago…

Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.

@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard

by Bloggy on Sep 30, 2011 8:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

What a freaking buzzkill that was in 03.

Jesus that sucked a bucket of piss. Just awful.

I was throwing a keg party when it happened and it just put a sour note on everything. Luckily, the next year we ended up having a huge bonfire in celebration. 2004 was an unbelievably, surreal feeling that I still can’t forget.

by The Name is Dalton on Sep 29, 2011 10:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'd bought a 12 pack of Harps on the way home for the game.

Turned on my TV and drank a couple beers before the 7th inning and the rest by the time the game was over.

So depressing… I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.

Wait ’til next year!

by AlohaSox on Sep 29, 2011 11:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

"And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world."

That is just a beautiful sentence (even if it leads with a conjunction)!

It is full of so much. The despair of impossible odds. The history that proves redemption is possible. Tomorrow DOES happen.

You should use it as your sig.

NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.

by mmmmm on Sep 30, 2011 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

It probably works better

because it begins with a conjunction.

Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.

@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard

by Bloggy on Sep 30, 2011 9:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ha ha ha!

I have an English degree, with a focus on creative writing… I flaunt the rules of the English language regularly.

by AlohaSox on Oct 7, 2011 8:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

They were due for heartbreak

Pats in the 07 Superbowl, Celtics in Game 7 against the Lakers a couple years ago, Bruins losing against the Flyers after being up 3-0.(Thankfully this was avenged)

Boston sports teams can’t go too long without heartbreak.

by The Name is Dalton on Sep 29, 2011 8:43 AM EDT reply actions  

This isn't really heartbreak though

There was no single play that spelled disaster, just a whole month of some of the crappiest baseball I have ever seen. I’m so pissed off, they gave away their playoff spot. two more wins against the goddamn ORIOLES would have been enough, but they couldn’t even deliver on that.

by JordanS on Sep 29, 2011 8:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

It's heartbreak

after that month-long suckitude, we were down to one strike…and blew it. That…is heartbreak. On top of the Rays scoring 7 runs in the final two innings to send it to extras and Longoria’s walk-off…

Man. Surreal.

Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.

@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard

by Bloggy on Sep 29, 2011 9:02 AM EDT up reply actions  

Maybe not for you.

But this is heartbreaking to me. It doesn’t have to be instantaneous. 2004 was heartbreaking for yankee fans and that wasn’t one play.

And has Bloggy said. We were one strike away. And I believe the Rays were down to their last strike before tying it too. I’m sorry but in the span of 20 minutes last night went from cautious optimism to heartbroken. This is historic, and even moreso because of how good they were.

by The Name is Dalton on Sep 29, 2011 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions  

I was optimistic much more than 20 minutes.

I had illusions that the rain was never going to end in Baltimore, forcing them to call the game with us winning 3-2. I had illusions that the 7-0 lead was insurmountable (even though we’ve seen it evaporate before).

I had illusions that Papelbon was his dominant self, even after he gave up the two out, two strike double to right field… I had illusions that first and third with no one out in the top of the 12th meant the Yankees were going to pull it out after all.

All up in smoke. Unbelievable. Much like the 2006 collapse by the Patriots that robbed us of the Super Bowl… just one completion for a first down, and we run the clock out and prevent Manning’s ridiculous come back (and only Super Bowl win).

Just unbelievable.

by AlohaSox on Sep 29, 2011 10:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sorry, I should clarify

I meant that I was cautiously optimistic for most of the game (pretty much as soon as Teix jacked that Grand Slam), but then within a span of 20 minutes that optimism turned into utter devastation. Just meant to convey that even though the collapse was a month long, at the very end there was a distinct suddenness (Word?) to it that caused heartbreak.

by The Name is Dalton on Sep 29, 2011 10:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes, it was.

When the rain delay started, it looked like all was right in the world. Yankees would win, Sox would win and dominate in the playoffs.

And suddenly, it was over.

by AlohaSox on Sep 29, 2011 11:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

GUUUUHHHHHHHH

That is all.

"You saw us pretty bad," Petra answered.
"I saw you magnificent," said Ender.

by BlackSoxDown on Sep 29, 2011 9:09 AM EDT reply actions  

Francona's words -should be his own epitath

On Wednesday, with the latest Red Sox collapse complete and Francona walking in the unfamiliar shoes of Don Zimmer and Grady Little, the manager stood in the busy corridor outside the clubhouse and tried to explain what had just happened. These words, ‘I don’t know’ may be his epitath.

He spoke softly. "I don’t know how to evaluate when you go home before you’re ready," he said.

What do you mean you do not know how to evaluate? Take a look at September! I have been one of his biggest supporters. But, these words: “I don’t know” are inexcuseable. You cannot lead and manage by not knowing. If he is indecisive and clueless to the collapse then it is time for a change. He looks tired and the fire is gone in his belly. The whole team looked tired and weary and he is the centerpiece for that lost, weak and powerless image. The image is pathetic.

I do not blame Tito for the collapse apart from some of his boneheaded moves and confused state of mind – but the bulk of blame is on the FO for no pitching depth, and the players’ crummy defense, lousy base running and lack of clutch hitting. Furthermore, the big money stars did not perform and they should be publicly chastised by management.

However, I do hold Tito accountable for taking responsibility and providing managerial summaries of what went wrong and how to fix it. He did not do that at all. He failed in that task.

Tito, your words are weak and your excuse is a sham. You should come out and say it – “we stunk, we chocked up the biggest lead in history & we did not play good baseball and that is why we collapsed….this is intolerable and the entire organization needs to look at the problem and determine the fix from the front office to lowest rung of our farm system.”

If you are not part of the solution then you are part of the problem. The organization has lost it’s identity – they need to begin the process of top to bottom review now. The Sox need clear leadership not fuzzy words like “I don’t know.” I don’t know does not cut it. You know, we know, all of baseball knows – you sucked in September and that is why your season ended.

And, the first two questions to ask are,
1. “Who is worth retaining?
2. Who can we trade or release and still be competitive, even if we swallow $$ in our under performing contracts ?”

"Man that ball got outta here in a hurry, you know anything that travels that far oughta have a damn stewardess on it, don't you think?" - Crash Davis

by Dave D on Sep 29, 2011 9:14 AM EDT reply actions  

I don't know if you saw the interview

but it was him being surrounder by about 20 reporters as he was walking through the hall, about 2 minutes after the game was over. He was emotional and his response to just about everything was “I don’t know.” It was just too soon to talk about it. I’m sure if (when) he’s talked to today, he’ll be more analytical and provide actual answers, but that was kind of a ridiculous interviewing situation.

His job is to manage the team, not to immediately have a very thorough explanation 2 minutes after one of the bigger chokes in history. As a human, you can’t expect complete clarity in a moment that emotional.

That said, you’ll probably get your wish, he’s probably gone

by wolf9309 on Sep 29, 2011 10:07 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah

to fully articulate a proper response immediately after that is nearly impossible. I mean most of us were sitting here with gut-punch face.

Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.

@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard

by Bloggy on Sep 29, 2011 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions  

And I, literally

had a slack jaw.

Unreal.

Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.

@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard

by Bloggy on Sep 29, 2011 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

I was tearing the cover off the ball like a mad man on the kickball field.

It was so nice to be able to go to an athletic field, play hard always, and vent some of the energy and rage that had built up.

by AlohaSox on Sep 29, 2011 10:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

I just went to bed

Once I went offline I was asleep from then until noon. I’ve been drinking since then.

I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
DFA Rev Halofan, The New York Yankees, The Tampa Bay Blue Seats, Carl Crawford, John Lackey, Darnell McDonald, Terry Francona, Curt Young, Dave Magadan, Tim Bogar, Buck Showalter, Dan Johnson, Hawk Harrelson, Jonah Keri, Murray Chass, Mark Sanchez, Micheal Vick, Jared Allen, Jerry Jones, Al Davis, Vuvuzelas, The Chicken Dance, Lady Gaga, Justin Bieber, Stephanie Meyer, and the entire fucking city of Philadelphia.

by TheLoneDavid on Sep 29, 2011 10:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

I've been annoyingly sober ever since.

I had one beer last night. I’m due for a nasty ol’ bender.

Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.

@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard

by Bloggy on Sep 30, 2011 8:32 AM EDT up reply actions  

Drink hard always.

I’m making sure that even if the rest of me can’t get it out of my head, my liver doesn’t remember the collapse.

I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
DFA Rev Halofan, The New York Yankees, The Tampa Bay Blue Seats, Carl Crawford, John Lackey, Darnell McDonald, Terry Francona, Curt Young, Dave Magadan, Tim Bogar, Buck Showalter, Dan Johnson, Hawk Harrelson, Jonah Keri, Murray Chass, Mark Sanchez, Micheal Vick, Jared Allen, Jerry Jones, Al Davis, Vuvuzelas, The Chicken Dance, Lady Gaga, Justin Bieber, Stephanie Meyer, and the entire fucking city of Philadelphia.

by TheLoneDavid on Oct 1, 2011 1:21 AM EDT up reply actions  

Ha ha.

“Play hard always.”

Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.

@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard

by Bloggy on Sep 30, 2011 8:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

True

But, I think most of us were not too surprised they lost since have flat out stunk this past month – it was not a shocker as the pitching, defense, crummy base running (thanks 3rd base coach) and leaving too many on base in key situations showed us how bad they were this past month.

On another note – I could not figure out last night why with Ells on 3rd and Pedey on 1st he did not steal. Pedey gets thrown out when Papi hits the grounder and the next play is a double play. I wonder how it would have went with Ells on 3rd and Pedey on 2nd?? I know it is a moot point – but the decision making was interesting…

"Man that ball got outta here in a hurry, you know anything that travels that far oughta have a damn stewardess on it, don't you think?" - Crash Davis

by Dave D on Sep 29, 2011 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not unreasonable to just wait for Papi to put it in play

The odds favor that even if Papi got an out it would be a productive out that would get Ells home. There were no outs and Papi is a lefty with the infield partially shifted (which also makes it harder to steal 2nd for DP). If he gets it in the outfield, Ells scores. Odds are if he grounds into a DP the ball is going to the right side and Ells gets home easy. And Papi has a very low K rate (just 83 in 605 PAs this year).

What no one expected was for Papi to hit that dribbler which prevented Ells from coming home.

Just one more absurd, improbable event along with all the others.

NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.

by mmmmm on Sep 29, 2011 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yup.

There were so many last night… so, so, so many.

Really, so many this month.

by AlohaSox on Sep 29, 2011 10:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

+1

Tito wasn’t one of the 13 pitchers on our staff who bizarrely mutated into pieces of crap during the last 26 games.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/play-index/split_stats_team.cgi?full=1&params=total|Last%2028%20days|BOS|2011|pitch|IP|

Sort by ERA and enjoy looking at where the names stack up.

Its shocking. Just shocking. And I can’t blame Tito for being, well, shocked.

NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.

by mmmmm on Sep 29, 2011 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

link messup

Try this instead.

NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.

by mmmmm on Sep 29, 2011 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wolf I have been one of the biggest supporters of Tito on this site

I did not see the interview – I only read some snippets. My wish is for a winning team and my point is they need to review their current performance and personnel from the top down and make decisions. I honestly have no idea what they will do. And, although I see your point about the interview and his lack of clear answers – poin taken – yet, he had all of September to think it through.

"Man that ball got outta here in a hurry, you know anything that travels that far oughta have a damn stewardess on it, don't you think?" - Crash Davis

by Dave D on Sep 29, 2011 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Crawford's words

"We knew they weren’t out of it," Crawford said of the Rays.

"They’ve got the kind of team that will come back."

WTF, this guy under performs, lookd dazed and confused and then states the Rays have the team that comes back. He is a Ray at heart and not a Sox – our team used to have the comeback attitude. This whole month – this self-defeating attitude permeates the Big League Club. Does he say – we are better than this – we are a comeback team and we just came up short? Sox nation- I aplogize for our epic collapse and my part in it and we will comeback next season. You are the best fans around…No, he just compliments the Rays. And we have him for 5-6 more years…good times.

"Man that ball got outta here in a hurry, you know anything that travels that far oughta have a damn stewardess on it, don't you think?" - Crash Davis

by Dave D on Sep 29, 2011 9:21 AM EDT reply actions   1 recs

That's right, rant and rave about a single sentence uttered by a player you dislike.

Feels good doesn’t it?

"We’re the Sox. Not Apple Sox. We ain’t no Barbeque Sox. We’re the Red Sox.’’ - David Ortiz

by L33to II on Sep 29, 2011 9:32 AM EDT up reply actions  

Like or dislike is so irrelevant. It is about his performance and accountability – clearly he lacks both in 2011.

"Man that ball got outta here in a hurry, you know anything that travels that far oughta have a damn stewardess on it, don't you think?" - Crash Davis

by Dave D on Sep 29, 2011 9:34 AM EDT up reply actions  

I disagree with that entirely

Crawford came out and apologized to the fans for his performance this year and has vowed to improve. That is accountability.

Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.

@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard

by Bloggy on Sep 29, 2011 9:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

Well then that is good to hear

I missed that briefing

"Man that ball got outta here in a hurry, you know anything that travels that far oughta have a damn stewardess on it, don't you think?" - Crash Davis

by Dave D on Sep 29, 2011 9:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

It was around mid-September, if memory serves.

Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.

@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard

by Bloggy on Sep 29, 2011 9:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

Well I wish he said it again last night

Timing is everything

"Man that ball got outta here in a hurry, you know anything that travels that far oughta have a damn stewardess on it, don't you think?" - Crash Davis

by Dave D on Sep 29, 2011 9:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

Was he asked specifically about the Rays comeback?

Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.

@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard

by Bloggy on Sep 29, 2011 9:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

Dunno for sure

he made the comment in the locker room after the Rays won – my point is that would be a good opportunity to talk about his performance and how the club is better than this not just commending the Rays. And, what the Rays did last night was impressive.

"Man that ball got outta here in a hurry, you know anything that travels that far oughta have a damn stewardess on it, don't you think?" - Crash Davis

by Dave D on Sep 29, 2011 9:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

Maybe he did.

Did you hear every possible thing he said after the game?

NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.

by mmmmm on Sep 29, 2011 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

I guess my heart burn is seeing all the moping this entire month – the team looked defeated weeks ago and just kept saying, “I don’t know”. Losing sucks but at least go down with some fire and fight that is my perception.

"Man that ball got outta here in a hurry, you know anything that travels that far oughta have a damn stewardess on it, don't you think?" - Crash Davis

by Dave D on Sep 29, 2011 9:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

Pedroia on the WP?

Really? I mean that is one of the most improbable plays ever. The odds of that ball going right back to the catcher? Had to be something like 0.03%…

(Too soon? Sorry, I just couldn’t help it.)

by AlohaSox on Sep 29, 2011 10:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

I did rec this, by the way.

That loose attitude down 3-0 to the Yankees in 2004 was key; the loose attitude down 3-1 to the Indians was key.

That’s what I mean in other comments about how mental this game is and one guy’s struggles dragging the next down with him. Everyone starts trying to do more than they can, and the slump spreads.

by AlohaSox on Sep 29, 2011 10:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree with this

I felt this team had too much to just quit. Half this team already has a WS ring, they know the leadership and effort it requires. They have Wake and Tek, the old vets. They had Pedey, Lester and Beckett to lead. I think that maybe they got into some struggle early in September and it just became so much pressure they couldn’t pull out, the harder they tried the worse it got.

"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.

by Rogue Nine on Sep 29, 2011 11:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

I believe he was asked something akin to

“When you guys saw the scoreboard with the Rays down 7-0, do you think you guys got too comfortable and let your guard down?”

And to be honest, if he had said, “Well, we didn’t really expect them to come back and win” than we would yell at him for that.

by The Name is Dalton on Sep 29, 2011 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

I have no problem with that answer.

Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.

@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard

by Bloggy on Sep 29, 2011 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions  

Which one?

The one he gave or the alternative one I mention.

I’m not saying everyone would yell at him if he had given the latter as an answer, but there would definately be people who would jump on it. I really don’t care about either answer to be honest.

by The Name is Dalton on Sep 29, 2011 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

rec'ed X10000

NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.

by mmmmm on Sep 29, 2011 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Crawford's answer

which basically translates as “we know better than to ever count anyone out until the final out”. Proper answer to that question.

Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.

@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard

by Bloggy on Sep 29, 2011 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Reply fail

Was going to say thanks, I just wasn’t sure which one you meant. I agree that it was an appropriate answer.

by The Name is Dalton on Sep 29, 2011 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree with your answer, too, for that matter.

Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.

@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard

by Bloggy on Sep 29, 2011 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Last night was without a doubt was the most exciting final nights in baseball, and also one of the most heart breaking nights for millions of fans in Atlanta and Boston. I admit, it was a bit sad seeing Big Papi and Chipper Jones down, you could see they were broken and as a baseball fan in general, it sucks knowing that a few teams always has to be the one that loses.

You guys will bounce back, sign that closer (yes, he blew a couple of games but outside Rivera the guy is damn good at what he does), and I can’t see Crawford giving this sort of performance for two years in a row, I expect a comeback year for the guy.

Hope to see you guys and the Braves in the playoffs next year.

by Outkastprince on Sep 29, 2011 9:29 AM EDT reply actions   1 recs

I don't blame Tito for this

Nor do I blame Paps or hold Bard accountable for his awful September. We leaned too hard on the bullpen because we got absolutely nothing out of our rotation.

DFA Lackey, please for the love of God gets this d-bag off our team. I tried to have sympathy for him I really did, if my wife was really sick (in my case it’d only be a girlfriend but still) I wouldn’t be alright either. But after his comments he made at the end of the season and just the way he acted I don’t care how much money you have to swallow or if you have to trade him to a team like KC for a bag of bats just get him off our team.

I didn’t like the Crawford signing to when it happened, I think giving guys big money, long term deals whose major weapon is their legs is stupid, plus I questioned where his spot in the lineup would be, but I at least thought we’d get a couple seasons out of him, he decided to suck immediately. I’d almost suggest trying to trade him to the Mets for Jason Bay, almost. But I guess we’re stuck with his overpriced, overrated ass. Bat him in the 9 hole next year, see how a double lead off things works out.

DFA Dice-K, he’s utterly useless.

Miller and Weiland back to Pawtucket with you, if we never see you in Boston again it’ll be too soon.

Wakefield, you served us long and nobley. Please retire before you stay any longer and waste any good will we have towards you. Same goes with you Varitek.

I’d like to try to resign Papi and even Paps, but not overpay for them either. So I have a feeling we’ll see Papi again but Paps is gone.

So long Drew, maybe we can find a guy who isn’t so injury prone to play your position.

Don’t know what to do with Youk, this is twice now he’s had really bad injuries to end his season.

Lester, Clay, and even you even numbered year Beckett (so next year he’s going to suck), we should try to build the rotation with only retaining you 3, but I have a feeling you’ll be joined again by Lackey…

by sonicdeathmonkey on Sep 29, 2011 9:45 AM EDT reply actions  

yes!

I love it when we start DFAing people! DFA! DFA! DFA!

Want to see someone really get their brain twisted up? Try explaining the Monty Hall problem to them....

by BigBenSportsGuy on Sep 29, 2011 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions  

EXACTLY

I read on the WEII website how they called it a Scutaro running gaffe…man, I nearly reached through my monitor.

Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.

@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard

by Bloggy on Sep 29, 2011 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions  

We wouldn't be playing today

we would have been starting our scrubs yesterday and not giving a flying fuck about the Rays.

I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
DFA Rev Halofan, The New York Yankees, The Tampa Bay Blue Seats, Carl Crawford, John Lackey, Darnell McDonald, Terry Francona, Curt Young, Dave Magadan, Tim Bogar, Buck Showalter, Dan Johnson, Hawk Harrelson, Jonah Keri, Murray Chass, Mark Sanchez, Micheal Vick, Jared Allen, Jerry Jones, Al Davis, Vuvuzelas, The Chicken Dance, Lady Gaga, Justin Bieber, Stephanie Meyer, and the entire fucking city of Philadelphia.

by TheLoneDavid on Sep 29, 2011 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

My bad.

I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
DFA Rev Halofan, The New York Yankees, The Tampa Bay Blue Seats, Carl Crawford, John Lackey, Darnell McDonald, Terry Francona, Curt Young, Dave Magadan, Tim Bogar, Buck Showalter, Dan Johnson, Hawk Harrelson, Jonah Keri, Murray Chass, Mark Sanchez, Micheal Vick, Jared Allen, Jerry Jones, Al Davis, Vuvuzelas, The Chicken Dance, Lady Gaga, Justin Bieber, Stephanie Meyer, and the entire fucking city of Philadelphia.

by TheLoneDavid on Sep 29, 2011 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well, didn't he cost us at least one.

And definitely two.

And that is all it would have taken, really. I mean, for all the talk about Scutaro looking for the ball, and stopping a bit on Crawford’s double before getting thrown out at the plate… well, Bogar was waving him in on the play. He heard the crowd roar, didn’t know which side of the crowd it was, couldn’t pick up the ball (because it had gone under/behind the LF)… and hesitated.

Here’s the thing… he said he had to look for the ball before he looked for his coach. Not true at all. That’s the POINT of a good 3B coach… you watch him and run hard, and he watches the ball for you… so the fact that Scutaro was looking for the ball, doesn’t that say it all?

He had to see for himself whether to believe Bogar was sending him home in a good opportunity to score, or whether he was sending him to be thrown out at the plate. He didn’t trust his 3B coach to be sending him…

by AlohaSox on Sep 29, 2011 10:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree that the main culprit was the pitching over the last month that did us in.

But look at the numbers before you pick which names to jump all over.

Outside of Morales, Papelbon, Aceves and Atchison, our entire staff just plain sucked.

NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.

by mmmmm on Sep 29, 2011 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’m still processing everything that happened last night. I keep telling myself that there’s always next year and hopefully this lights a fire under them. I personally think they were too streaky… pitchers and hitters. I’ve stuck with them from their 2-10 start, through the highs and lows and believed in them in September. I knew that if they made the playoffs, then it would be interesting to see what happened/should they even deserve to make it. I had 08 ALCS flashbacks last night and I remember 03 too. It just sucks when a season ends “in a second.” Last night is baseball drama at it’s finest.

The 2012 season has already started.

GO SOX!!

by JLS89 on Sep 29, 2011 9:47 AM EDT reply actions  

Im sorry for your loss guys

Tampa Bay earned it, against all odds over a month of play.

Boston already has earned a World Series over a comeback rally over the Yankees.

It’s sports and an emotional time. Hold your head high and be positive that you have already done the unthinkable a few years back to become baseball champions.

Peace. Fresh start in 2012!

by VikesFanSince1967 on Sep 29, 2011 10:13 AM EDT reply actions  

thats the thing.

no one can really say that Tampa earned this. They played ok down the stretch and did just enough to take advantage of our complete breakdown. They were benefited by their circumstance.

Want to see someone really get their brain twisted up? Try explaining the Monty Hall problem to them....

by BigBenSportsGuy on Sep 29, 2011 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions  

Uh, sorry folks. Not really sure what to say, but thanks for having me hangout here over the last week.

Follow me on twitter @nyybrandonc

Writer/Editor for Pinstripe Alley, Blueshirt Banter

"No matter what I talk about, I always get back to baseball."

"Every day is a great day for hockey."

by Brandon C. on Sep 29, 2011 10:14 AM EDT reply actions  

Well this sucks

this team seemed so good- I really had complete faith up until Longoria’s walk-off; that was when I finally accepted that it wasn’t going to happen. It’s kind of an embarrassment as a fan to have a team THAT hyped up fail SO miserably.

That said, I hope Theo can get creative this offseason and find a way to really shore up our pitching. I hope that Youk and Buchholz and Crawford can come back and contribute like they should. I hope Papi is back, and I hope that Tek and Wakefield decide to exit of their own accord. I hope that next year, this team can be everything that they were supposed to be this year.
As Red Sox fans have said for so many years before- there’s always next year. I know that I and all my friends here will be behind them all the way.

by wolf9309 on Sep 29, 2011 10:16 AM EDT reply actions   1 recs

+1

NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.

by mmmmm on Sep 29, 2011 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

This was my first season

here at OTM. It has been fun to find other sox fans. Being here in Utah, we don’t have a team. Anyway, thanks for all the fun times guys. Ben, Marc, you guys do a great job with this site and I look forward to reading about how we do in the offseason and going forward.

Very very frustrating. Its one of those nights that we will remember exactly for the rest of our lives. But its just a game. Life will go on. We will get back to where we want to be.

Here is to a WS title in 2012!

Want to see someone really get their brain twisted up? Try explaining the Monty Hall problem to them....

by BigBenSportsGuy on Sep 29, 2011 10:18 AM EDT reply actions  

Well

My schedule sure has opened up this October.

Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.

@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard

by Bloggy on Sep 29, 2011 10:21 AM EDT reply actions  

The only way this could get worse

is if the MFYs win it all. Luckily Philly looks damn near unstoppable. That’s a frickin scary team

by JordanS on Sep 29, 2011 10:28 AM EDT reply actions  

They have weaknesses

Notably, an offense that can suddenly forget how to score runs. And they face the Cards in the opening short series, and the Cards have handled the Phillies this year, 6 – 3 head to head.

--
"No left turn unstoned"
(road sign created by the Merry Pranksters)

by Paul1951 on Sep 29, 2011 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Brewers Rays

shall be the world series.

"I don't put any foreign substances on the baseball. Everything I use is from the good old U.S.A."

JVSM

Pedroya Lova

by Dustin's #1 Fan on Sep 29, 2011 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Brewers Tigers you mean

I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
DFA Rev Halofan, The New York Yankees, The Tampa Bay Blue Seats, Carl Crawford, John Lackey, Darnell McDonald, Terry Francona, Curt Young, Dave Magadan, Tim Bogar, Buck Showalter, Dan Johnson, Hawk Harrelson, Jonah Keri, Murray Chass, Mark Sanchez, Micheal Vick, Jared Allen, Jerry Jones, Al Davis, Vuvuzelas, The Chicken Dance, Lady Gaga, Justin Bieber, Stephanie Meyer, and the entire fucking city of Philadelphia.

by TheLoneDavid on Sep 29, 2011 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Seriously

Honestly, I’d rather the Yanks win than the Rays. Granted, it’s a shot versus stabbed repeatedly with gardening shears scenario.

"Playoffs?!? Don't talk about playoffs! Are you kidding me? I just hope we can win a game!"

- Jim Mora, seeing through space and time to describe the 2011 Boston Red Sox

by nuthinboutnuthin on Sep 29, 2011 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

I honestly think the Tigs have the best team going into the postseason in the AL

2nd best pitching staff, third best lineup. Verlander is the best pitcher in the postseason by far, and if Fister is on like he has been the past month he’s basically unstoppable too.

I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
DFA Rev Halofan, The New York Yankees, The Tampa Bay Blue Seats, Carl Crawford, John Lackey, Darnell McDonald, Terry Francona, Curt Young, Dave Magadan, Tim Bogar, Buck Showalter, Dan Johnson, Hawk Harrelson, Jonah Keri, Murray Chass, Mark Sanchez, Micheal Vick, Jared Allen, Jerry Jones, Al Davis, Vuvuzelas, The Chicken Dance, Lady Gaga, Justin Bieber, Stephanie Meyer, and the entire fucking city of Philadelphia.

by TheLoneDavid on Sep 29, 2011 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Phillies

"Playoffs?!? Don't talk about playoffs! Are you kidding me? I just hope we can win a game!"

- Jim Mora, seeing through space and time to describe the 2011 Boston Red Sox

by nuthinboutnuthin on Sep 29, 2011 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Whoops.

Reading comprehension fail.

"Playoffs?!? Don't talk about playoffs! Are you kidding me? I just hope we can win a game!"

- Jim Mora, seeing through space and time to describe the 2011 Boston Red Sox

by nuthinboutnuthin on Sep 29, 2011 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

In the AL?

It’s between the Tigers (who have a better 1-2) and the Rays, who have a deeper staff.

I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
DFA Rev Halofan, The New York Yankees, The Tampa Bay Blue Seats, Carl Crawford, John Lackey, Darnell McDonald, Terry Francona, Curt Young, Dave Magadan, Tim Bogar, Buck Showalter, Dan Johnson, Hawk Harrelson, Jonah Keri, Murray Chass, Mark Sanchez, Micheal Vick, Jared Allen, Jerry Jones, Al Davis, Vuvuzelas, The Chicken Dance, Lady Gaga, Justin Bieber, Stephanie Meyer, and the entire fucking city of Philadelphia.

by TheLoneDavid on Sep 29, 2011 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

I really think it's a toss up between them and the Yankees.

Offense isn’t as fearsome, but I think their pitching is better and that, often, is enough.

"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.

by Rogue Nine on Sep 29, 2011 11:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

The Tigers are definitely the best playoff team in the AL

they have an awesome lineup anchored by Avila, Cabrera, and Martinez, and a great 3-man rotation in Verlander (CY) Fister (incredible since the trade) and Scherzer (2nd best #3 among all three teams) they are the most balanced team and have the best shot at the WS.

I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
DFA Rev Halofan, The New York Yankees, The Tampa Bay Blue Seats, Carl Crawford, John Lackey, Darnell McDonald, Terry Francona, Curt Young, Dave Magadan, Tim Bogar, Buck Showalter, Dan Johnson, Hawk Harrelson, Jonah Keri, Murray Chass, Mark Sanchez, Micheal Vick, Jared Allen, Jerry Jones, Al Davis, Vuvuzelas, The Chicken Dance, Lady Gaga, Justin Bieber, Stephanie Meyer, and the entire fucking city of Philadelphia.

by TheLoneDavid on Sep 29, 2011 11:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm rooting for them.

Detroit against Milwaukee, though I think I’d rather the Brewers get the ring.

by AlohaSox on Sep 29, 2011 11:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's a tough one

but with my family situation, I’m Tigers all the way.

I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
DFA Rev Halofan, The New York Yankees, The Tampa Bay Blue Seats, Carl Crawford, John Lackey, Darnell McDonald, Terry Francona, Curt Young, Dave Magadan, Tim Bogar, Buck Showalter, Dan Johnson, Hawk Harrelson, Jonah Keri, Murray Chass, Mark Sanchez, Micheal Vick, Jared Allen, Jerry Jones, Al Davis, Vuvuzelas, The Chicken Dance, Lady Gaga, Justin Bieber, Stephanie Meyer, and the entire fucking city of Philadelphia.

by TheLoneDavid on Sep 29, 2011 11:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

they have two good pitchers, a formidable lineup,

and the worst defense in the league. it’s either the rangers or the yankees. cj wilson has been as good as verlander since the asb and their other two lefties have been solid for the last couple of months.

by brighten the corners on Sep 29, 2011 11:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Right, that's why the Tigers have been the hottest team in baseball since the Fister trade.

I’ll expect your apology when the Tiger go to the world series.

I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
DFA Rev Halofan, The New York Yankees, The Tampa Bay Blue Seats, Carl Crawford, John Lackey, Darnell McDonald, Terry Francona, Curt Young, Dave Magadan, Tim Bogar, Buck Showalter, Dan Johnson, Hawk Harrelson, Jonah Keri, Murray Chass, Mark Sanchez, Micheal Vick, Jared Allen, Jerry Jones, Al Davis, Vuvuzelas, The Chicken Dance, Lady Gaga, Justin Bieber, Stephanie Meyer, and the entire fucking city of Philadelphia.

by TheLoneDavid on Sep 29, 2011 11:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh, I see now

you’re a Texas fan, that’s why you can’t see it.

I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
DFA Rev Halofan, The New York Yankees, The Tampa Bay Blue Seats, Carl Crawford, John Lackey, Darnell McDonald, Terry Francona, Curt Young, Dave Magadan, Tim Bogar, Buck Showalter, Dan Johnson, Hawk Harrelson, Jonah Keri, Murray Chass, Mark Sanchez, Micheal Vick, Jared Allen, Jerry Jones, Al Davis, Vuvuzelas, The Chicken Dance, Lady Gaga, Justin Bieber, Stephanie Meyer, and the entire fucking city of Philadelphia.

by TheLoneDavid on Sep 29, 2011 11:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

no. i'm a red sox fan

and the indians were the hottest team until june

by brighten the corners on Sep 29, 2011 11:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Red Sox collapse, but at least you guys have the Bruins

The Braves had a similar (worse IMO) September meltdown, and it still wasn’t as bad as what happened to their hockey fans. I love the Winnipeg Jets, but Atlanta’s diehard sports fans (all 50 of them?) have a decent sized share of facepalm going on right now.

Not that it makes this situation any better, but hey, Boston is still home to a pretty decent sports city.

And the best freaking marathon in the world, in my humble opinion.

Math Problems? Call 1-800-[(10x)(13i)2]-[sin(xy)/2.362x].

by dees ees en drama on Sep 29, 2011 10:56 AM EDT reply actions  

*hugs

Mets and Braves fans are the Sox only friends this off season.

"I don't put any foreign substances on the baseball. Everything I use is from the good old U.S.A."

JVSM

Pedroya Lova

by Dustin's #1 Fan on Sep 29, 2011 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ok here's my take as a third generation fan...

I look at this team and I see a bunch of guys who at times were the best team in baseball. They started out dead and ended up dead. But in between we saw some sublime baseball being played. Injuries and slumps killed them. Baseball is a game of momentum and the Sox hit a wall in April and a wall in September. They also ended up not getting significant production from some of their highest dollar signings (Yeah I’m looking at you Lackey). Not a good recipe for success. I’m also thinking a lot about Carl Crawford as I have been a defender of that dog all year long. But watching his lackadaisical play in the field and his penchant for grounding out to second base at important moments has soured me on him for now. He still has time to improve but it best happen quickly out of the gate next year as he’s not getting any younger and if he is as sensitive as they say he’d best get that fixed quick. Relief pitching killed me in September. Bard did not demonstrate to me that he can be the killer at the back end that we need. Papelbon looked great number wise but watching him pitch day in and day out made me question him. Is he worth the money he is bound to demand? I think not. Lester was awesome until September, Beckett was better than last year, Clay’s back injury really hurt but the real kick in the butt was our reliance on Lackey, Daisuke, Wakefield and a handful of warm wishes to be the rest of the rotation. Really Theo Daisuke??? Why don’t we just take a pile of money and throw it in a ditch. But whatever happens I love this team and I’ve said wait ‘til next year enough times in my life and heard my dad say it enough to know that it’s actually kind of comforting. On one hand I’d like to see this team win every world series every year but I hate the people that expect to win it every year. But this one hurt…a lot.

Official Driver of the Draft Andy Dalton Winnebago. In the sidecar of the draft Mark Ingram motorcycle.

by NavajoShamanSchoolAlum on Sep 29, 2011 10:59 AM EDT reply actions  

Because reactionary moves tend to be the wrong ones.

"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.

by Rogue Nine on Sep 29, 2011 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

who are you going to get better than Tito? Larry Bowa?

And consider that there may be problems, but, for instance, Tito may be getting more out of a guy like Pedey than anyone else can get.

by cds7c on Sep 29, 2011 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

How about Kirk Gibson?

I’m sure we can offer more $$ than Arizona.

I also wouldn’t mind Schilling, if he’s given up on trying politics.

I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
DFA Rev Halofan, The New York Yankees, The Tampa Bay Blue Seats, Carl Crawford, John Lackey, Darnell McDonald, Terry Francona, Curt Young, Dave Magadan, Tim Bogar, Buck Showalter, Dan Johnson, Hawk Harrelson, Jonah Keri, Murray Chass, Mark Sanchez, Micheal Vick, Jared Allen, Jerry Jones, Al Davis, Vuvuzelas, The Chicken Dance, Lady Gaga, Justin Bieber, Stephanie Meyer, and the entire fucking city of Philadelphia.

by TheLoneDavid on Sep 29, 2011 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

I have no reason to believe that Schilling would be a good manager.

He has personality that rubs many people the wrong way…I’m not sure that he would effectively deal with the various personalities that can be present in a locker room.

Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.

@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard

by Bloggy on Sep 29, 2011 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Schilling needs to be somewhere in the organization.

He came in in 2004 and we won the Series, we won again in 2007 with him on the staff. In 2008 he was hurt all year and we lost in Game 7. 2009, the first year he was gone, we got bounced in the first round, we haven’t been back since.

Schilling is the fucking good luck charm.

I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
DFA Rev Halofan, The New York Yankees, The Tampa Bay Blue Seats, Carl Crawford, John Lackey, Darnell McDonald, Terry Francona, Curt Young, Dave Magadan, Tim Bogar, Buck Showalter, Dan Johnson, Hawk Harrelson, Jonah Keri, Murray Chass, Mark Sanchez, Micheal Vick, Jared Allen, Jerry Jones, Al Davis, Vuvuzelas, The Chicken Dance, Lady Gaga, Justin Bieber, Stephanie Meyer, and the entire fucking city of Philadelphia.

by TheLoneDavid on Sep 29, 2011 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Pitching or Bullpen coach wouldn't be bad to start

I could imagine him out in the Bullpen playing Call of Duty or World of Warcraft or Everquest or whatever he is doing these days.

by The Name is Dalton on Sep 29, 2011 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Has Schilling ever managed anything, or been a coach for that matter

Has there ever been a “good” MLB manager who never managed or coached at any level that had a good career as an MLB Manager. And I’m not trying to crap on your idea but just being realistic as I don’t know the answer to that question.

Personally I wouldn’t mind Schilling as a pitching coach and Tek as Bench coach. (Wouldn’t want him as hitting coach) But I think handing them such a high pressure position as the Boston manager is not a recipe for success.

Now Gibson, him I can support…he’s a good manager and he has been bench and hitting coach for 7ish seasons before becoming a manager.

by The Name is Dalton on Sep 29, 2011 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well, let's take a stab at that...

Ozzie Guillen (won a World Series as a coach) was a decent player.

Kirk Gibson (won a World Series as a player) looks like a good coach. Don Mattingly was a good player, and despite the mess he has in L.A. looks like a good coach.

Did Yogi Berra win World Series as a player and as a coach? Pete Rose is another good player and a good coach (gambling aside).

Yeah, I think baseball more than any other sport but maybe hockey or basketball, has a pretty good history of players as coaches.

That said, and I love Curt Schilling and even find him fun to watch on Baseball Tonight… I’m not convinced that he wouldn’t rub the players the wrong way as a coach, and might not do that well in the position. I think most coaches have to subvert their ego, and part of what I love about Schiling is that he doesn’t seem to do that ever…

by AlohaSox on Sep 29, 2011 11:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Personality is the reason I wouldn't want Schil anywhere near my team.

I don’t think he has the right mindset to manage, managing is about the players, not you, and he is all about himself. Love him, but he’s always been about his own brand, that doesn’t work in a team atmosphere.

"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.

by Rogue Nine on Sep 29, 2011 11:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Exactly.

That’s what I’m saying. I love him to death, would love to shake his hand some time, but I don’t think he’d make a good manager.

by AlohaSox on Sep 29, 2011 11:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hardly reactionary

This has been building for 3 years

My Twitter @totheights

by totheights on Sep 29, 2011 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

2009 he got a lot out of a team with essentially no SS, a bad bullpen and only 2 starters playing decently. Beyond Beckett and Lester, Brad Penny made the most starts at 24. I think that was some decent managerial work to even make the playoffs with that little pitching depth.

2010 was lost to injuries. I went through the stats and found we lost around 10 games to injury last year. There’s a fanpost on here somewhere with that work.

2011 was a mix of injuries and… something else. I don’t know what happened this month, I know injuries was a lot of it as well as some tremendously poor luck. Might be Francona’s fault, but I think it’s pretty inconclusive. Firing him I think would be reactionary, the last 2 years I can’t pin on him at all.

"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.

by Rogue Nine on Sep 29, 2011 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed.

You can gripe about some of the stuff he’s done this year, but he’s done a good job in his time here and has enough good will to keep him for next year.

Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.

@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard

by Bloggy on Sep 29, 2011 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

I mean, two world series.

Fire the manager who was steering the ship for 2004 and 2007? It’s unfathomable to me…

by Sologub on Sep 29, 2011 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Concur.

As I said up above, folks like to pick a single face to blame because it simplifies things. If you get rid of the one face that magically will fix everything.

But sometimes there is no single face to blame. The failures here were partly due to injuries but otherwise due to failures by so many different players to perform – for so many different reasons.

NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.

by mmmmm on Sep 29, 2011 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

His bullpen management is terrible

and between him and Bogar’s windmill arm I think we’ve lost about 10-15 games that we should absolutely have won in this year alone.

I honestly think standing (sitting) here right now that managers cannot win games for their teams, they can only lose them. It’s a matter of finding the manager who loses the least amount, and Francona is not that guy.

I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
DFA Rev Halofan, The New York Yankees, The Tampa Bay Blue Seats, Carl Crawford, John Lackey, Darnell McDonald, Terry Francona, Curt Young, Dave Magadan, Tim Bogar, Buck Showalter, Dan Johnson, Hawk Harrelson, Jonah Keri, Murray Chass, Mark Sanchez, Micheal Vick, Jared Allen, Jerry Jones, Al Davis, Vuvuzelas, The Chicken Dance, Lady Gaga, Justin Bieber, Stephanie Meyer, and the entire fucking city of Philadelphia.

by TheLoneDavid on Sep 29, 2011 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

"the manager who loses the least amount, and Francona is not that guy."

said, based on?

Francona has a .574 winning percentage with the Red Sox (744-552).

You are looking, apparently, for someone who would attain better numbers than that?

NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.

by mmmmm on Sep 29, 2011 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Who would be better that we could ACTUALLY get?

No dream ‘Soto’ scenarios. Who is out there that could actually manage this team better that we would actually be able to get and that makes sense (IE, no Schilling, Wake or Tek, or manager under contract of a decently competitive team, I can’t see Arizona’s guy leaving).

I would imagine that every manager sucks at bullpen management, you just don’t watch enough games of other teams to see it. Every time we have a comeback after the 6th, it was likely in an opposing fan’s opinion, a poor bullpen decision, how many late innings come backs are there a year? Tons. That’s tons of perceived poor bullpen decisions every season. I would bet that Rays fans were calling for Maddon’s head yesterday for leaving Price in too long. I largely can come to grips or understand Francona’s decisions when they go wrong. Not every pitcher is available every night, there are undisclosed injuries or aches we may never know about, occasionally the only options are bad options (see Red Sox, Sept 2011 bullpen). We do not operate with the same information that a manager does, they know far more than we do about who is ready or in the right mindset to pitch a big out.

"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.

by Rogue Nine on Sep 29, 2011 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

How about Bud Black?

He does a good job in SD, but his team is not in contention. Don Wakamatsu would be another guy I’d be okay with in Boston.

I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
DFA Rev Halofan, The New York Yankees, The Tampa Bay Blue Seats, Carl Crawford, John Lackey, Darnell McDonald, Terry Francona, Curt Young, Dave Magadan, Tim Bogar, Buck Showalter, Dan Johnson, Hawk Harrelson, Jonah Keri, Murray Chass, Mark Sanchez, Micheal Vick, Jared Allen, Jerry Jones, Al Davis, Vuvuzelas, The Chicken Dance, Lady Gaga, Justin Bieber, Stephanie Meyer, and the entire fucking city of Philadelphia.

by TheLoneDavid on Sep 29, 2011 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

The same Don Wakamatsu

Who coached that very highly rated Mariners team in 2010? We might be asking for it there.

Bud Black is interesting but I could imagine that Hoyer is going to try his hardest to keep him. I just don’t know if you can grade anything that comes out of SD. Hard to tell if they overachieved last year, or just rode a strong bullpen, a couple good starters and Gonzo to 2nd place.

"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.

by Rogue Nine on Sep 29, 2011 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

He's been there longer than the last couple seasons

He was the manager for the 2007 team that won the wildcard. Yes, they won the wild card, I’m still waiting for Holliday to touch home plate.

I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
DFA Rev Halofan, The New York Yankees, The Tampa Bay Blue Seats, Carl Crawford, John Lackey, Darnell McDonald, Terry Francona, Curt Young, Dave Magadan, Tim Bogar, Buck Showalter, Dan Johnson, Hawk Harrelson, Jonah Keri, Murray Chass, Mark Sanchez, Micheal Vick, Jared Allen, Jerry Jones, Al Davis, Vuvuzelas, The Chicken Dance, Lady Gaga, Justin Bieber, Stephanie Meyer, and the entire fucking city of Philadelphia.

by TheLoneDavid on Sep 29, 2011 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

In the other years

They’ve largely been unimpressive. Tough to judge what his skill as a manager is.

"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.

by Rogue Nine on Sep 29, 2011 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think that's more who they've been trotting out there

Hoffman, Headley, and Adrian are studs, Stauffer and Latos are pretty cool, but everyone else has been “meh” at best.

I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
DFA Rev Halofan, The New York Yankees, The Tampa Bay Blue Seats, Carl Crawford, John Lackey, Darnell McDonald, Terry Francona, Curt Young, Dave Magadan, Tim Bogar, Buck Showalter, Dan Johnson, Hawk Harrelson, Jonah Keri, Murray Chass, Mark Sanchez, Micheal Vick, Jared Allen, Jerry Jones, Al Davis, Vuvuzelas, The Chicken Dance, Lady Gaga, Justin Bieber, Stephanie Meyer, and the entire fucking city of Philadelphia.

by TheLoneDavid on Sep 29, 2011 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Aside from their bullpen, which has always been good.

I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
DFA Rev Halofan, The New York Yankees, The Tampa Bay Blue Seats, Carl Crawford, John Lackey, Darnell McDonald, Terry Francona, Curt Young, Dave Magadan, Tim Bogar, Buck Showalter, Dan Johnson, Hawk Harrelson, Jonah Keri, Murray Chass, Mark Sanchez, Micheal Vick, Jared Allen, Jerry Jones, Al Davis, Vuvuzelas, The Chicken Dance, Lady Gaga, Justin Bieber, Stephanie Meyer, and the entire fucking city of Philadelphia.

by TheLoneDavid on Sep 29, 2011 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

I've learned to distrust good pitching results from teams in extreme pitchers' parks

 * glares balefully at Curt Young *

"Playoffs?!? Don't talk about playoffs! Are you kidding me? I just hope we can win a game!"

- Jim Mora, seeing through space and time to describe the 2011 Boston Red Sox

by nuthinboutnuthin on Sep 29, 2011 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well that's more on the pitching coach than Black.

I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
DFA Rev Halofan, The New York Yankees, The Tampa Bay Blue Seats, Carl Crawford, John Lackey, Darnell McDonald, Terry Francona, Curt Young, Dave Magadan, Tim Bogar, Buck Showalter, Dan Johnson, Hawk Harrelson, Jonah Keri, Murray Chass, Mark Sanchez, Micheal Vick, Jared Allen, Jerry Jones, Al Davis, Vuvuzelas, The Chicken Dance, Lady Gaga, Justin Bieber, Stephanie Meyer, and the entire fucking city of Philadelphia.

by TheLoneDavid on Sep 29, 2011 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

I know, I know...

Was kidding – mainly because I can’t be drunk at work.

"Playoffs?!? Don't talk about playoffs! Are you kidding me? I just hope we can win a game!"

- Jim Mora, seeing through space and time to describe the 2011 Boston Red Sox

by nuthinboutnuthin on Sep 29, 2011 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

What is on Black

Is that it’s hard to make bad decisions with a good bullpen. Hard to tell how’d he do with our bullpen which is far worse, or at least in a park that won’t hide their suck.

"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.

by Rogue Nine on Sep 29, 2011 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's fair

but I still think we need a change. If not because Francona SHOULD be fired, then because it’s time to shake things up a little. Gibson and Black are my realistic first choices to replace him.

I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
DFA Rev Halofan, The New York Yankees, The Tampa Bay Blue Seats, Carl Crawford, John Lackey, Darnell McDonald, Terry Francona, Curt Young, Dave Magadan, Tim Bogar, Buck Showalter, Dan Johnson, Hawk Harrelson, Jonah Keri, Murray Chass, Mark Sanchez, Micheal Vick, Jared Allen, Jerry Jones, Al Davis, Vuvuzelas, The Chicken Dance, Lady Gaga, Justin Bieber, Stephanie Meyer, and the entire fucking city of Philadelphia.

by TheLoneDavid on Sep 29, 2011 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

How is that realistic? They have jobs and are under contract.

This isn’t college football, you cant just pick the guy you like. Thats why Ozzie to Miami took so long, he had to talk Reinsdorf into letting him walk so he could be free. I still think the CWS are going to get some compensation.

Everyone that has a manager job right now is off limits. You pick from retreads and pitching coaches. Good luck with that.

by cds7c on Sep 29, 2011 8:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Speaking of...

What would this team have looked like with John Farrell as the pitching coach?

by AlohaSox on Sep 29, 2011 11:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

...good

I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
DFA Rev Halofan, The New York Yankees, The Tampa Bay Blue Seats, Carl Crawford, John Lackey, Darnell McDonald, Terry Francona, Curt Young, Dave Magadan, Tim Bogar, Buck Showalter, Dan Johnson, Hawk Harrelson, Jonah Keri, Murray Chass, Mark Sanchez, Micheal Vick, Jared Allen, Jerry Jones, Al Davis, Vuvuzelas, The Chicken Dance, Lady Gaga, Justin Bieber, Stephanie Meyer, and the entire fucking city of Philadelphia.

by TheLoneDavid on Sep 29, 2011 11:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well

I’m not sure how realistic Black is. He is under contract through 2013 with club options for ’14 and ’15.

Gibs is a little more realistic since he is only under contract through next season. You’re a Michigan guy so what is the inside word on Leyland? Is he going to come back or not? I only ask because if he wasn’t going to come back that Gibson would try to stay in Arizona next year and then drop hints to Dombrowski to try and get hired as the manager for the Tigers. It seems to me that would be right up Gibs ally, and I’m sure Dombrowski would go for him in a second if he has another good year in Zona. Hometown hero, etc etc.

by The Name is Dalton on Sep 29, 2011 9:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think Leyland is close to retirement

He also loves Detroit, he’s not going anywhere.

I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
DFA Rev Halofan, The New York Yankees, The Tampa Bay Blue Seats, Carl Crawford, John Lackey, Darnell McDonald, Terry Francona, Curt Young, Dave Magadan, Tim Bogar, Buck Showalter, Dan Johnson, Hawk Harrelson, Jonah Keri, Murray Chass, Mark Sanchez, Micheal Vick, Jared Allen, Jerry Jones, Al Davis, Vuvuzelas, The Chicken Dance, Lady Gaga, Justin Bieber, Stephanie Meyer, and the entire fucking city of Philadelphia.

by TheLoneDavid on Sep 29, 2011 10:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

I didn’t want to make it seem like I was suggesting Leyland for the Sox….He spent his first 18 years with Detroit and I know he was glad to get back there.

I figured if Dombrowski wanted Gibson, he might be able to convince Leyland to stick around for a year until Kirk’s contract with Arizona is done.

by The Name is Dalton on Sep 29, 2011 10:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Idk how long Leyland wants to stick around.

I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
DFA Rev Halofan, The New York Yankees, The Tampa Bay Blue Seats, Carl Crawford, John Lackey, Darnell McDonald, Terry Francona, Curt Young, Dave Magadan, Tim Bogar, Buck Showalter, Dan Johnson, Hawk Harrelson, Jonah Keri, Murray Chass, Mark Sanchez, Micheal Vick, Jared Allen, Jerry Jones, Al Davis, Vuvuzelas, The Chicken Dance, Lady Gaga, Justin Bieber, Stephanie Meyer, and the entire fucking city of Philadelphia.

by TheLoneDavid on Sep 29, 2011 11:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

plus this was the first year of his contract

dont see why he would want to leave or why the Padres would want him to

by wolf9309 on Sep 29, 2011 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Clearly, the first order of business...

… is to acquire Dan Johnson and arrange for him to have an unfortunate… shall we say, “accident.” How many fucking Red Sox seasons has that guy ruined?

"Playoffs?!? Don't talk about playoffs! Are you kidding me? I just hope we can win a game!"

- Jim Mora, seeing through space and time to describe the 2011 Boston Red Sox

by nuthinboutnuthin on Sep 29, 2011 11:55 AM EDT reply actions  

Rays fan here: here is my take (feel free to shoot me on site)

This whole scenario is a aggregate of numerous factors. Too many people are trying to pigeonhole blame. Certainly some on Francona, some on Epstein, and some on the players. Francona’s blunder has been his bullpen usage, at some point you cant just use the same 3 guys. They will get tired. Now I don’t fault the GM for Lackey, who could predict he would do this? However, Crawford was a pathetic signing. It is a amazing a team with such a good front office would fall for that trap. Even in Tampa he was a hacking speedster that relied on defense and BABIP. Well Fenway eliminates the D from the equation. Now that leads to BABIP reliance, and that is primarily driven through speed? Tons of variation to start, but what if the speed declines? Now I have no explanation for some of that crap, he makes that catch 99% of the time in Tampa. Also not sure what the deal is with the reliance on Wakefield. Nice guy I’m sure, but a team with the resources of the RS shouldn’t be relying on a guy that is losing his gimmick. I have all the respect in the world for Ellsbury and Pedroia, the play the game the right way and are elite talents. And they certainly played that way down the stretch. No way on MVP for those two though (I’d take Longo #1 now to be honest), as you can’t give it to a player on a team that just did this. Also I take serious offense to the Yankees throwing games. The fact of the matter is they rested guys for both the RS and Rays series. On another note I made my first trip to Fenway a couple weeks ago (the BJ Upton broken bat game). I’d probably give my right arm (left handed) for a stadium and atmosphere like that.

I thank Draysbay for proving that Loose Change fanatics exist in mainstream America, and more importantly for Chik-fil-A spicy chicken recommendations. My life is forever changed

by matthan on Sep 29, 2011 12:23 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

I've been saying this since January man

all I ever get in response is “he plays have his games in not-Fenway.”

I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
DFA Rev Halofan, The New York Yankees, The Tampa Bay Blue Seats, Carl Crawford, John Lackey, Darnell McDonald, Terry Francona, Curt Young, Dave Magadan, Tim Bogar, Buck Showalter, Dan Johnson, Hawk Harrelson, Jonah Keri, Murray Chass, Mark Sanchez, Micheal Vick, Jared Allen, Jerry Jones, Al Davis, Vuvuzelas, The Chicken Dance, Lady Gaga, Justin Bieber, Stephanie Meyer, and the entire fucking city of Philadelphia.

by TheLoneDavid on Sep 29, 2011 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, I find that to be totally ridiculous. How is acceptable to neuter a good chunk of a guys value for half the games?

Also he was a serious primma donna here in Tampa. Would only bat 2nd, and wouldn’t play CF when Upton was out. He was just a bad fit to go into the Boston pressure cooker, especially since it was obvious he’d have to be taken out of his “comfort” zone. But really I have no excuse why he didn’t catch that ball. He didn’t have to run very far. It was a weak dive/slide. And his throw looked like a girl. Crawford has never been known for his arm, but the lack of urgency was pretty amazing. Not sure what was up with that effort.

I thank Draysbay for proving that Loose Change fanatics exist in mainstream America, and more importantly for Chik-fil-A spicy chicken recommendations. My life is forever changed

by matthan on Sep 29, 2011 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

He had a sore shoulder

From staying up the night swimming in his vault of money ala Scrooge McDuck.

by The Name is Dalton on Sep 29, 2011 9:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Those are all good & reasonable points (except LONGO) that many on this site have pointed out

"Man that ball got outta here in a hurry, you know anything that travels that far oughta have a damn stewardess on it, don't you think?" - Crash Davis

by Dave D on Sep 29, 2011 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hi, Bob.

Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.

@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard

by Bloggy on Sep 29, 2011 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

I lost all respect for him and Girardi yesterday

"I don't put any foreign substances on the baseball. Everything I use is from the good old U.S.A."

JVSM

Pedroya Lova

by Dustin's #1 Fan on Sep 29, 2011 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Girardi for not letting one of the best closers of all-time add to his total

"I don't put any foreign substances on the baseball. Everything I use is from the good old U.S.A."

JVSM

Pedroya Lova

by Dustin's #1 Fan on Sep 29, 2011 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

really?

He’ll be around for a while. Girardi and the Yankees have one priority- which is winning the world series. He said in advance that he was going to rest his bullpen guys, and he stuck with that. It’s a long season, and that was just a good managerial decision.

by wolf9309 on Sep 29, 2011 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed.

Francona was right on when he said that the Yanks had earned the right to play whomever they want. Of course, that’s apparently more in his wheelhouse than the “is my pitcher gassed?” call.

"Playoffs?!? Don't talk about playoffs! Are you kidding me? I just hope we can win a game!"

- Jim Mora, seeing through space and time to describe the 2011 Boston Red Sox

by nuthinboutnuthin on Sep 29, 2011 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah. That woulda been real nice.

Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.

@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard

by Bloggy on Sep 29, 2011 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Extremely nice

Let's trade Reddick for Heyward!
Herreshoff.info -- The most awesome website since the invention of the internet.

by QW on Sep 29, 2011 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think that Furbush and Robinson

probably aren’t that far apart in value. I don’t think it would have been much more to get Fister than we paid for Bedard.

Let's trade Reddick for Heyward!
Herreshoff.info -- The most awesome website since the invention of the internet.

by QW on Sep 29, 2011 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

It would have been more than the Bedard trade

We got a nice 3rd base prospect who is in AA I think. He’s probably a year or two away.

by LeftArrow2 on Sep 29, 2011 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Would've been nice definitely

But think about it this way.

Now you guys will always be able to look back on the Fister-Furbush trade and have a chuckle at the name.

by The Name is Dalton on Sep 29, 2011 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

The only X Rated trade in MLB history

I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
DFA Rev Halofan, The New York Yankees, The Tampa Bay Blue Seats, Carl Crawford, John Lackey, Darnell McDonald, Terry Francona, Curt Young, Dave Magadan, Tim Bogar, Buck Showalter, Dan Johnson, Hawk Harrelson, Jonah Keri, Murray Chass, Mark Sanchez, Micheal Vick, Jared Allen, Jerry Jones, Al Davis, Vuvuzelas, The Chicken Dance, Lady Gaga, Justin Bieber, Stephanie Meyer, and the entire fucking city of Philadelphia.

by TheLoneDavid on Sep 29, 2011 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

In the same way that we could have had Felix Hernandez

You can’t get something for nothing. We paid little for Bedard.

by Sean O on Sep 29, 2011 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well no it's not the same

Felix is off the table, Bedard/Fister/Vargas were on the block. Fister didn’t cost that much, and I know its easier to judge the trades now but Fister has been the better than Felix this past month

by LeftArrow2 on Sep 29, 2011 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hindsight, though...

No one thought Fister could keep that up away from Safeco.

by AlohaSox on Sep 29, 2011 11:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

I wanted Bedard more than Fister

but I would have been happy with either of them.

I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
DFA Rev Halofan, The New York Yankees, The Tampa Bay Blue Seats, Carl Crawford, John Lackey, Darnell McDonald, Terry Francona, Curt Young, Dave Magadan, Tim Bogar, Buck Showalter, Dan Johnson, Hawk Harrelson, Jonah Keri, Murray Chass, Mark Sanchez, Micheal Vick, Jared Allen, Jerry Jones, Al Davis, Vuvuzelas, The Chicken Dance, Lady Gaga, Justin Bieber, Stephanie Meyer, and the entire fucking city of Philadelphia.

by TheLoneDavid on Sep 29, 2011 11:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

This^

There were valid reasons to argue for either of them at the time.

Unfortunately, just like every other coin flip went bad for us at the end of the season, we didn’t get the better side of that decision.

Not that I’m saying Bedard was ‘bad’ – but he obviously missed too much time still and was no where near as productive as Fister ended up being.

NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.

by mmmmm on Sep 30, 2011 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ben thought so.

And he convinced me, too.

Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.

@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard

by Bloggy on Sep 30, 2011 8:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

hugs

"There's no place like it, and it's ours." - Stephen King on Fenway Park

by 808BostonSportsFan on Sep 29, 2011 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

I fell asleep during the rain delay. Waking up to the replays of both the Sox loss and Rays win was not fun.

by gojohn99 on Sep 29, 2011 3:03 PM EDT reply actions  

This.

I’m officially challenging every Sox player to a fight. I don’t expect to win or survive – but it should be cathartic.

"Playoffs?!? Don't talk about playoffs! Are you kidding me? I just hope we can win a game!"

- Jim Mora, seeing through space and time to describe the 2011 Boston Red Sox

by nuthinboutnuthin on Sep 29, 2011 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

all I'm saying is,

This could very well be the first year since I moved back where I don’t get Sox tickets. And considering I bought twenty five goddamn games this year, that’s a big deal.

by Sean O on Sep 29, 2011 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Those 25 games could have been the difference

"Playoffs?!? Don't talk about playoffs! Are you kidding me? I just hope we can win a game!"

- Jim Mora, seeing through space and time to describe the 2011 Boston Red Sox

by nuthinboutnuthin on Sep 29, 2011 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Crap.

I pulled a Crawford – screwed up my sarcasm tags.

"Playoffs?!? Don't talk about playoffs! Are you kidding me? I just hope we can win a game!"

- Jim Mora, seeing through space and time to describe the 2011 Boston Red Sox

by nuthinboutnuthin on Sep 29, 2011 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's of course been a bad year to be me

But a huge portion of that is thanks to the Red Sox. And I will rejoice at seeing Francona carrying his boxes out of Fenway for the last time.

by Sean O on Sep 29, 2011 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Francona isn't going anywhere

You can’t possibly blame this collapse on him.

by BHeebs on Sep 29, 2011 11:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

The team doesn't appear to be either.

I think it’s down to whether or not he wants to come back.

"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.

by Rogue Nine on Sep 29, 2011 11:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

They'll be fine with a finally healthy team goes to the World Series next year.

"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.

by Rogue Nine on Sep 30, 2011 12:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

Ticket sales aren’t going to stop the Sox from being competitive for a few years. Frankly, it would be stupid to assume so, even if the sellout streak ends, attendance will be high. A return to the playoffs is all it will take for the sales to pick up again and then we’re rolling. No coach has that impact on the ticket sales. You may not get yours but there will be plenty to take your place. Maybe I’ll get them.

"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.

by Rogue Nine on Sep 30, 2011 12:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

Ticket sales are a barometer of decreased fan interest

Which has been slipping mightily since the 2004-2007 era. This includes a decrease in NESN viewership as well.

No coach has an impact, correct, but retaining a manager who shepherded the greatest regular season collapse in sports history indicates an organization with no interest in solving problems.

We’ve now spent at least $320m to miss the playoffs in consecutive seasons. Something has to give.

by Sean O on Sep 30, 2011 12:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

Because they spent $300m+

and effectively promised us October. Fans won’t get fooled again, especially now that we’re out of money, stuck with a team that finds ways to miss the playoffs.

by Sean O on Sep 30, 2011 12:46 AM EDT up reply actions  

oh I think your point is right on

I should’ve clarified that. They do need to send a big message to fans, one way or another.

by wolf9309 on Sep 30, 2011 12:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'm blaming it on all of them

Francona is the jackass who did literally nothing, and let Lackey start enough to amass 160 godawful innings.

Somebody’s gotta pay, and #1 and 2 on that list is T__o.

by Sean O on Sep 29, 2011 11:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Even if that ultimately happens...

…which I doubt….

knee-jerk reactions are not the answer. They need to do a lot of internal analysis and take time to make long-term decisions for the team. You can’t go the next day when tension, stress and emotion is still high. There is a lot of work to do before ANY changes are made.

by BHeebs on Sep 29, 2011 11:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

No, you do it the next day

So the people who spend hundreds or thousands of dollars supporting the team realize that you mean business. If Francona gets fired in a month, it won’t mean the same.

by Sean O on Sep 29, 2011 11:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'd rather fight the Rays players

With all of OTM on my side. Armed with baseball bats with nails in them.

I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
DFA Rev Halofan, The New York Yankees, The Tampa Bay Blue Seats, Carl Crawford, John Lackey, Darnell McDonald, Terry Francona, Curt Young, Dave Magadan, Tim Bogar, Buck Showalter, Dan Johnson, Hawk Harrelson, Jonah Keri, Murray Chass, Mark Sanchez, Micheal Vick, Jared Allen, Jerry Jones, Al Davis, Vuvuzelas, The Chicken Dance, Lady Gaga, Justin Bieber, Stephanie Meyer, and the entire fucking city of Philadelphia.

by TheLoneDavid on Sep 29, 2011 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

I see what you're saying...

… but I don’t hate the Rays players – they’re just doing their jobs. I just hate their fans, or at least the SBN version – which I secretly think is just one multiple-personality disorder lunatic locked in a filthy asylum somewhere with an internet connection and no punctuation or grammar.

"Playoffs?!? Don't talk about playoffs! Are you kidding me? I just hope we can win a game!"

- Jim Mora, seeing through space and time to describe the 2011 Boston Red Sox

by nuthinboutnuthin on Sep 29, 2011 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Then let's beat him with sticks.

Or go Full Metal Jacket on him and beat him with soap in a towel so it doesn’t leave marks.

I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
DFA Rev Halofan, The New York Yankees, The Tampa Bay Blue Seats, Carl Crawford, John Lackey, Darnell McDonald, Terry Francona, Curt Young, Dave Magadan, Tim Bogar, Buck Showalter, Dan Johnson, Hawk Harrelson, Jonah Keri, Murray Chass, Mark Sanchez, Micheal Vick, Jared Allen, Jerry Jones, Al Davis, Vuvuzelas, The Chicken Dance, Lady Gaga, Justin Bieber, Stephanie Meyer, and the entire fucking city of Philadelphia.

by TheLoneDavid on Sep 29, 2011 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

We could beat him with a copy of Strunk & White's or the Chicago Manual of Style...

It’s like sunlight to a vampire.

"Playoffs?!? Don't talk about playoffs! Are you kidding me? I just hope we can win a game!"

- Jim Mora, seeing through space and time to describe the 2011 Boston Red Sox

by nuthinboutnuthin on Sep 29, 2011 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Awesome!

NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.

by mmmmm on Sep 30, 2011 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

This is true

As they’re never seen in person at the same place at the same time.

"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.

by Rogue Nine on Sep 29, 2011 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Soo....

What was in the ‘One Girl’s Take’ fanpost before it was removed?

"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.

by Rogue Nine on Sep 29, 2011 4:58 PM EDT reply actions  

You don't wanna know.

"Playoffs?!? Don't talk about playoffs! Are you kidding me? I just hope we can win a game!"

- Jim Mora, seeing through space and time to describe the 2011 Boston Red Sox

by nuthinboutnuthin on Sep 29, 2011 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Some story about a screaming poop factory and the Rays.

I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
DFA Rev Halofan, The New York Yankees, The Tampa Bay Blue Seats, Carl Crawford, John Lackey, Darnell McDonald, Terry Francona, Curt Young, Dave Magadan, Tim Bogar, Buck Showalter, Dan Johnson, Hawk Harrelson, Jonah Keri, Murray Chass, Mark Sanchez, Micheal Vick, Jared Allen, Jerry Jones, Al Davis, Vuvuzelas, The Chicken Dance, Lady Gaga, Justin Bieber, Stephanie Meyer, and the entire fucking city of Philadelphia.

by TheLoneDavid on Sep 29, 2011 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

nothing particularly bad

just a story which would’ve been nice if it were posted in the right place

by wolf9309 on Sep 29, 2011 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

True.

But it was fairly obviously not posted here by accident.

"Playoffs?!? Don't talk about playoffs! Are you kidding me? I just hope we can win a game!"

- Jim Mora, seeing through space and time to describe the 2011 Boston Red Sox

by nuthinboutnuthin on Sep 29, 2011 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

DavidW: No reposting something publicly that's already been taken down.

If you’re just gonna post it again, then we might as well just let everything stay up. . . .

Fenway: "An alternate and better universe, disguised as a ballpark." --Thomas Boswell

by lone1c on Sep 29, 2011 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Chin up, lads

As a Yankee fan, I know something about soul-sucking defeats. Trust me, it sucks now but you’ll get your mojo back soon enough. You’ve still got a juggernaut on your hands, even if it doesn’t seem like it at the moment.

I can’t promise you you’ll ever really get over it, but in time it definitely will be possible to convince yourself that the 2011 season was actually canceled on September 1. Kinda like how they canceled the 2004 season early. At least, I’m pretty sure that’s what happened that year. It’s kind’ve a fog.

Aaahhh derka derka derka

by Captain_Mick on Sep 29, 2011 6:03 PM EDT reply actions  

It was a sad day for Sox fans but a great day of baseball nonetheless

I still wore my Red Sox hat today. I didn’t really like our chances anyhow though. Assuming the Sox won that game and Tampa did as well, we would’ve saw Lackey, the bad end of the bullpen, and Red Sox killer Wade Davis most likely.

"Remember, it's not over until the fat lady drops one."

by n0va on Sep 29, 2011 6:15 PM EDT reply actions  

It's different because the Red Sox were Goliath this year.

The Red Sox were pretty much the unanimous favorites to win the AL East and to represent the AL in the World Series. They weren’t underdogs, they were EXPECTED to win and when they acquired Carl Crawford and Adrian Gonzalez how can you not expect to win? Some things happened along the season, the Yankees were better than expected as were the Rays. Buchholz went down, Lackey hit a HUGE wall, Daisuke sucked – again, Wakefield was ineffective, Crawford sucked, Youkilis couldn’t hold up at third base, there was nothing in the farm to fill in for injuries and ineffectiveness, that’s why the team failed. Death by a thousand cuts.

by Omar Little on Sep 29, 2011 7:15 PM EDT reply actions  

All in the game, yo

All in the game.

"Playoffs?!? Don't talk about playoffs! Are you kidding me? I just hope we can win a game!"

- Jim Mora, seeing through space and time to describe the 2011 Boston Red Sox

by nuthinboutnuthin on Sep 29, 2011 7:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

I still can't get over Adrian Gonzalez's and some of the fan base's reaction...

Yeah, the Red Sox were the underdogs and it’s because they played too many night games.

by Omar Little on Sep 29, 2011 7:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yup...

I said this in March… this was the danger with winning the Hot Stove. Anything less than a World Series was going to be a let down, but add to that the most epic September collapse in MLB history… that’s more than death by a thousand cuts…

by AlohaSox on Sep 29, 2011 11:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well, this sucks

down to the wire makes for exciting games but the ending sucked for Sox fans.

What’s next?

"Play Hard Always"

by MassGal on Sep 29, 2011 7:32 PM EDT reply actions  

The Sox' official site...

… still has that douchebaggy “We Won’t Rest Until Order Has Been Restored” slogan on it. Attention marketing assholes: this is restoring the order in place in my youth and teen years. Not happy about it.

Ugh.

"Playoffs?!? Don't talk about playoffs! Are you kidding me? I just hope we can win a game!"

- Jim Mora, seeing through space and time to describe the 2011 Boston Red Sox

by nuthinboutnuthin on Sep 29, 2011 8:17 PM EDT reply actions  

No doubt.

That’s the first overreaction that needs to happen.

Put up a big apology… like the Herald headline: “Choke’s on us.”

Something, anything but that…

by AlohaSox on Sep 29, 2011 11:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree completely

Step 1: Apologize and say HUGE changes are coming. None of this “we got unlucky” BS.
Step 2: Actually make those changes. Goodbye T__o.
Step 3: Come up with a plan for the short and long term that will result in us making the playoffs on an annual basis, preferably that does not include giving huge money to assholes like Lackey and Crawford.

Tied into all this is not resigning any person on the 25 man roster who isn’t arb-eligible or under contract, except Aceves. That means Ortiz, Papelbon, Varitek, Wakefield, Drew and anyone else, all gone. We need to clear out the dead wood and come up with some honest-to-god solutions to our problems.

This also means Lackey is not a starting pitcher for us going into 2012. He can either start for Pawtucket, or start as a mopup reliever in the pen.

by Sean O on Sep 29, 2011 11:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

As much as I was joking last night about us trading Crawford, and eating $70 million in salary...

I hope we find someplace to dump Lackey for 2012. I really don’t want him in our rotation next year. Even if he figures it out, say in Seattle or Oakland… I don’t care. I want him gone.

by AlohaSox on Sep 29, 2011 11:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think he should be our Wakefield next year

but don’t let him start, only mop up duty. That’s what he’s earned.

I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
DFA Rev Halofan, The New York Yankees, The Tampa Bay Blue Seats, Carl Crawford, John Lackey, Darnell McDonald, Terry Francona, Curt Young, Dave Magadan, Tim Bogar, Buck Showalter, Dan Johnson, Hawk Harrelson, Jonah Keri, Murray Chass, Mark Sanchez, Micheal Vick, Jared Allen, Jerry Jones, Al Davis, Vuvuzelas, The Chicken Dance, Lady Gaga, Justin Bieber, Stephanie Meyer, and the entire fucking city of Philadelphia.

by TheLoneDavid on Sep 29, 2011 11:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Exactly

He got 100 innings more than he deserved this season. He goes into the bullpen, and if he throws a shit fit, the team suspends him for insubordination. I don’t care whether or not he understands that he’s not a good pitcher, that’s the reality, and he’ll need to suck it up. The new GM and manager can figure out the details.

by Sean O on Sep 29, 2011 11:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well.

I’m speechless.
Wait, no.

Damn it.

by Old Blue Hawk on Sep 29, 2011 9:36 PM EDT reply actions  

Who else is joining me in making their BAC look like Bautista's OPS?

I have two six packs of Dragon’s Milk ready to go.

I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
DFA Rev Halofan, The New York Yankees, The Tampa Bay Blue Seats, Carl Crawford, John Lackey, Darnell McDonald, Terry Francona, Curt Young, Dave Magadan, Tim Bogar, Buck Showalter, Dan Johnson, Hawk Harrelson, Jonah Keri, Murray Chass, Mark Sanchez, Micheal Vick, Jared Allen, Jerry Jones, Al Davis, Vuvuzelas, The Chicken Dance, Lady Gaga, Justin Bieber, Stephanie Meyer, and the entire fucking city of Philadelphia.

by TheLoneDavid on Sep 29, 2011 10:11 PM EDT reply actions  

I can't help but notice

That it’s been roughly 24 hours and everyone still has a job. I just don’t understand, do you think everyone in ownership is off watching Liverpool practice today? Pretty sure there should’ve been a pink slip with a 6" dagger through it on Francoma’s door when they got back to Fenway.

by Sean O on Sep 29, 2011 11:57 PM EDT reply actions  

Should've waited an hour.

Sources reporting that Francona is gone.

We’re going to suck next year. Calling it now. Tito was better than most have given him credit for.

Two thumbs down for being reactionary.

"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.

by Rogue Nine on Sep 30, 2011 12:15 AM EDT up reply actions  

The worst thing a team with all the time of an offseason can do is make moves on emotion.

Nearly anything done emotionally is a poor move and impulsive. Impulsiveness does not win championships. Francona wins championships and has been a fine manager for this team. There are people who should be accountable, some secondary coaches who do the actual instruction, but not Tito or Theo. What sort of GM or coach would come here if they get fired for building a team that everyone thought was going to win everything, it certainly isn’t a bad thing, or what manager will come here if they know if shit happens and players get hurt, he’s on his ass? It’s terrible policy and frankly will fuck this team over.

Attention must be paid, but it must be done rationally and separate from the emotions everyone is feeling right now. Right now, they shouldn’t give a shit what we feel, they need to make sound business decisions, letting go of a good manager is not a good business decision.

"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.

by Rogue Nine on Sep 30, 2011 12:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

it's a known fact of being a manager

that if your team significantly underperforms its expectations, you’re gonna get the axe. It’s not always correct and it’s not always fair, but that’s the way it is, and it’s unlikely to dissuade other people from wanting to manage the team.

They have a better view into what exactly he is doing as far as managing goes, and lets be honest, guys like Theo and Lucchino are not exactly known for acting irrationally out of emotion. Whatever ours may be, if they let him go, it’s because they genuinely think that someone else is what this team needs now.

And admittedly, part of the business decision is probably that they need to show people they are shaking things up. Last year, they missed the playoffs and managed to keep people excited by spending $300 million. Chances are they can’t do that again, and showing the fans they mean business by making a major move like that probably does end up being a good business decision.
Also, it’s not really firing per se, so much as it is just not re-hiring, as his contract is up. Whatever. If he’s gone, I’ll be there giving him a standing ovation when he returns to Fenway with the next team he’s managing.

by wolf9309 on Sep 30, 2011 12:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

Isn't this effectively the same situation Girardi came into?

He stepped into a similar situation, and won a friggin’ World Series his first season. So I doubt we’d have difficulty finding a new GM and manager for the Boston friggin’ Red Sox.

This was not “shit happens”, this was a stupendous, astonishing collapse. Last year was shit happens, this year was organizational incompetence and an inability to right the ship.

As for your second paragraph, the Red Sox are in the business of selling tickets and TV commercials to human eyeballs, which are connected to some incredibly pissed off people right now. They damn well better care what the people who spend money are thinking right now.

by Sean O on Sep 30, 2011 12:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

But what people are thinking right now is irrational and emotion based.

Not good business. No real impact if they decided now, or decide in a month, none at all.

Girardi didn’t even make the playoffs his first year. He won the next year after they added CC, Tex and Burnett.

"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.

by Rogue Nine on Sep 30, 2011 1:02 AM EDT up reply actions  

So when it comes to December, and the team has done nothing with the staff,

you think people will fork over hundreds→thousands of dollars for this team, when they’ve said there was effectively no problem this season?

That’s right about Girardi. But he at least actually made the playoffs the year they spent all the money.

8 teams every year make the playoffs. Bunch more get really close. Only one managed the worst collapse in regular season sports history.

by Sean O on Sep 30, 2011 1:07 AM EDT up reply actions  

Well, the fans largely seem to want at least Tito and Theo to stay

So yes, they will fork over the money. Most fans are able to over look the September because it largely wasn’t Tito’s fault, sure he had a part in it, but so did everyone on the team, by that rational we should cut everyone, Pedey was the only one to man second base during the worst collapse in regular season sports history, Gonzalez was the only one to man fist base during the worst collapse in regular season sports history.

Ultimately it comes down to this: I put more weight on the good he’s done for the team than the bad. The bad years there have circumstances beyond his control. I actually praise him for 09, any manager who gets into the playoffs with that rotation and that bullpen deserves it. 2010 was lost to injury, a circumstance out of his control. 2011 was largely due to injury, if we don’t lose Buchholz we’re in the playoffs and don’t even have this conversation.

In the end, yes, he managed during the worst collapse, but how much was it his fault? I think it was a collective effort and it’s dangerous to fire people by association, it would be like getting fired based on who you voted for or being charge for a crime just because someone you know committed one.

"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.

by Rogue Nine on Sep 30, 2011 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

Girardi won his WS his SECOND season.

The first season he missed the playoffs and everyone wanted his head on a pike. He kept his job, won the WS the next season.

Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.

@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard

by Bloggy on Sep 30, 2011 8:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think that being the GM or Manager with the Sox is a crown jewel few would pass on

I think most would come to Boston and give it a try – since it is a premiere attraction. It is one of the few crown jewels of MLB…most guys would love the shot to succeed.

"Man that ball got outta here in a hurry, you know anything that travels that far oughta have a damn stewardess on it, don't you think?" - Crash Davis

by Dave D on Sep 30, 2011 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Depends on what happens to the next guy

If we let him go based on emotion we lose crown jewel status.

"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.

by Rogue Nine on Sep 30, 2011 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

A few thoughts/possibilites on this

1. Apart from all the injuries, etc. if all the swirl is accurate about the conditioning & lax attitude in the clubhouse then I think it makes sense from the standpoint of directional changes for an organization lacking intensity. (Also, Tito might be tired of all the media scrutiny in Boston and maybe the game is not fun for him too and he needs a change??) Sometimes leaving early is better than staying late – imagine if he stepped down after 2007…he would be a legend for the ages.

2. From the ownership’s viewpoint the organization on a whole has collapsed the past two seasons since success is defined by reaching & advancing in the playoffs. And, they are well within their scope of expectations to make directional changes.

3. Or, the Sox could retain Tito for one year & give him a bench coach who is a hard-ass and fire the conditioning coaches, medical staff and all the other coaches too and that is a pretty significant middle management shakeup. That would be done along with a FO shakeup and a roster shake out and go in a new direction. If at the end of the season the results are the same then Tito is gone.

4. Either way, I see the FO conducting a top to bottom review of the entire organization and revisioning and making changes that will keep the Sox competing. I think right now they are challenging their own business practices & assumptions by revisiting their blueprint for success. Adjustments are coming. The FO is just too smart to under-achieve.

"Man that ball got outta here in a hurry, you know anything that travels that far oughta have a damn stewardess on it, don't you think?" - Crash Davis

by Dave D on Sep 30, 2011 5:28 PM EDT reply actions  

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