From lone1c's diary: Wherein I say my goodbyes to the 2011 Sox
by lone1c on Sep 28, 2011 9:00 AM EDT
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There obviously comes a point at which you have to accept that an era has come to an end. You say your goodbyes, write off your losses, and move on. I write this before watching the final two games of the season—and I don't plan to rescale my opinions, regardless of what happens. I've already said my goodbyes to the 2011 season, emotionally at least.
Why have I given up? Well, a lot of it has to do with the fact that it seems a lot of the team has also given up—or at least they play as a team bereft of hope. Don't get me wrong—I don't mean to smear everyone with the brush of resignation to fate. The only way Dustin Pedroia gives up is if his body won't let him get on the field, and you know that guys like Tim Wakefield and Josh Beckett have that competitive fire burning inside of them. But, that fire never caught on with the rest of the team. As much as Pedroia is lauded as the heart and soul of this team, he didn't really seem to lead the team this year. In fact, there was never consistently a leader this year, somebody who took charge and put the team on his back all the way through. Jed Lowrie did it for a few weeks at the beginning of the season to guide them out of their April doldrums, and Jacoby Ellsbury did it for stretches as well, but there was no consistent focal point, no one to really rally around all year long. Did that hurt the team? I don't know, to be honest. But it certainly couldn't have helped.
One could also drag out the injury card and use that to try and explain things. Yes, there are shadows of 2010 looming large in the story of 2011 to date. But yet, it's still not the same.
Last year, with the 2010 Red Sox, after that horrific week of interleague play in which Pedroia, Jason Varitek, and Victor Martinez all went down in short order, everything spiraled out of control in a hurry. After Kevin Youkilis and Pedey both got shelved for the year, It was clear that there wasn't going to be a cure-all to fix the problems. Obviously, there were entertaining moments watching the new guys like Ryan Kalish prove their mettle, but that was tempered with having to watch players like Bill Hall and Darnell MacDonald impersonate major leaguers. However, the team was doing as well as could be expected, given the material they had to work with (no comments on Josh Beckett and John Lackey). But there was the small consolation knowing that this wasn't the Red Sox team that opened the year. How can a team survive without two of their very best players? And then pile up all of those other injuries, too (remember, over 1000 games lost to the DL!)? You just can't expect a team to absorb infinite losses and come out unscathed. I certainly can't, not after this year. But I do expect them to play to their talent.
So, is 2011 really all that different from 2010? Well, this time the problems were on the pitching side. Losing the teams #5 starter in May? Eh. Losing the #3 starter in June? Now we've got some problems. Losing one of the team's best relievers coming out of the gate to Tommy John surgery as well? Ruh-roh. But then there's also the disappearance of J. D. Drew; the injury (again) to Kevin Youkilis late in the year. And a few other injuries here and there, too. So, it's getting close, and the team at the end of the year is pretty clearly not the team that Theo Epstein was hoping to have.
But what I've seen of late is dispiriting, to say the least. Good offense ruined by lackluster starts. Decent starts marred by awful relief. Shellshocked players not getting the job done through bad luck, bad play, or at times seeming indifference. The team never seemed to fire on all cylinders coming down the stretch, and now we are where we are. As fans, it's disappointing; but what is it like to be in the middle of the maelstrom?
It's easy to try to say, "I can't imagine," but, on closer examination, I think I can understand it. I've actually lived it: and not once upon a time, but this very year, alongside the Sox's own frustrations. While many good things happened to me in 2011 (and having this gig has been one of them), it's also been, bar none, the roughest year of my personal and professional life in a long, long time. There were days when I was running completely on empty, and barely could make it out the door. But I got what needed to be done—what kept the lights on, if you will. But it was frustrating to know that it wasn't enough, and couldn't be enough. But I had to deal with it, and live with it. So, I have some respect for players who just can't measure up.
However, you can't really say that about the 2011 squad. There are still good players taking the field. Quite a number of them are banged up, but even if they're hurt, I want to see some signs of fight. (No, this isn't a slam on "emotionless" Drew, and I don't think everybody needs to get as keyed up as Pedey.) But there's a big difference between playing like you're snakebitten, and playing poorly because you're Bill Hall. The second is an inherent limitation that has to be accepted; giving yourself over to fate is not.
But, ultimately, this also comes down to a matter of protecting myself. I don't want to find myself truly hating the Red Sox. They've been a source of endless entertainment and wonder. Even at that awful nadir in October 2003, my ire was directed at the situation and its handling by Grady Little, and not at the players, not at Wakefield, not at Epstein, and not at the Sox. I never want to be in the position where I hate this team and what it's doing. So, I'd rather close myself off to a particular edition, so that I can continue to root for them in the future. Because I never want to have to live without the Red Sox—and I could see how failure this year could drive many a fan off the bandwagon.
So, sure, I'll certainly hope for the best—I'll never root against the Sox. But I'm not going to pray for a miracle, and I'm not going to get worked up, whatever the outcome. Whether the season ends in two games or twenty-two, they will do it without me (at least in spirit). I won't tear all my hair out if there's a choke, and I won't howl at the moon if there's a Duck Boat parade.
I'm checking off the emotional roller coaster now, so that I'll be able to get on it again next year.
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Goodbye. If this team makes the playoffs, you better not be around. You gave up. Your season is now over, period.
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So, where was your penalty for having been so steadfastly optimistic last year?
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by Ben Buchanan on Sep 28, 2011 9:45 AM EDT up reply actions
They didn’t make the playoffs. Isn’t that enough?
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by Marisa Ingemi on Sep 28, 2011 10:08 AM EDT up reply actions
Nope. Because we all went through that too.
Double standards are being set based on the feeling that optimism is inherently superior to pessimism.
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by Ben Buchanan on Sep 28, 2011 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions
If my optimism bothers you so be it. At least my front page writers don’t make a poor excuse of an article after the biggest win of the year. Way to bring the community together. And I’m not afraid to say that this guy should be taken off the staff.
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by Marisa Ingemi on Sep 28, 2011 11:30 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
If his pessimism bothers you, so be it. At least my front page writers don’t candy coat a bad situation just because the team managed to barely survive through another shitfest. Way to expect propaganda.
It works both ways. The Sox won. It was good. They still have been playing absolutely terribly, and that lone1c chooses to protect himself from future terribleness via pessimism instead of current terribleness via optimism is not something that deserves removal in the least.
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by Ben Buchanan on Sep 28, 2011 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions
So he quit? Where I come from, quitting is viewed as weakness. What if we all quit? What if the team quit? Then we’ be pissed, no? What makes what he did any better?
If he wants to little a great site with garbage not my problem I guess, but as you see from everyone here, we are all in agreement. I understand you will protect your writer and I would too, but you are picking on my comments here and no one elsewhere because I don’t give up and I root for my team.
I know we such right now, yes but he is the only one who has given up unless you have too.
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by Marisa Ingemi on Sep 28, 2011 11:36 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
What IF we all quit?
There’s no reason to think anything would change. His inability to ignore the evidence he sees before him—a 6-19 record in September, including 1-6 against a Rays team that will face the dregs of New York’s bullpen tonight.
Quitting is no more a weakness here than unfounded optimism. Both are done with the hope of protecting oneself, as I said above. The fact of the matter is that optimism is a lot more popular because it’s so easy to band together and attack the pessimists. “You gave up! We always had faith! I’m a much better fan than you are!” crow the optimists, while the pessimists, when they “win,” simply sit quietly, having no desire to revel in their defeat.
I haven’t quit, no. But I don’t think the Sox will make the postseason. Anything can happen, yes, but of late “anything” has tended to be “the worst possible thing” for Boston. Even last night they almost managed to blow it in the late innings. So when lone1c doesn’t choose to drink the Kool-Aid because he’s afraid of just how soul crushing a Game 162 or 163 loss could be, I show sympathy instead of scorn.
I never want to be in the position where I hate this team and what it’s doing. So, I’d rather close myself off to a particular edition, so that I can continue to root for them in the future. Because I never want to have to live without the Red Sox—and I could see how failure this year could drive many a fan off the bandwagon.
I’m sure the response is that he’s somehow a terrible fan because he’d feel completely betrayed by a collapse of this magnitude after the disaster of 2010, but hell, why shouldn’t he? Why shouldn’t we all? We invest months of our lives and, for some of us, quite a bit of money into this bunch year after year in the expectation that they’ll make it worth our while. For supporters of a smaller team, that may mean a playoff run here and there, or a good flow of exciting young players. For Red Sox fans, it means aspirations to the World Series year after year. Spoiled? Perhaps, but I don’t think there’s a fanbase in the game that wouldn’t feel completely betrayed by a collapse like this.
These are extreme circumstances.
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by Ben Buchanan on Sep 28, 2011 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions
I don’t think they will be in the playoffs either. But I’m going to watch the game and hope. And to say unfounded optimism, how about you look at my comments in the last week? You obviously haven’t. I have been saying I dont think they will be in the playoffs like everyone else. My comments are the same. But you choose me to argue with here because I was optimistic last year. And there was reason to be! Even with injuries they had the best offensive team, so I kept the faith. This is much different.
Hey, its your site. If you want the community members arguing and want mass Trolling like has been happening, again, not my problem. If you want fans giving up left and right, including front page writers that’s your choice. I Think it reflects on the community poorly. Do with this what you will, I’m not afraid to speak out on what’s going on here.
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by Marisa Ingemi on Sep 28, 2011 12:03 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
"I don’t think they will be in the playoffs either. But I’m going to watch the game and hope"
This.
The Red Sox suck, and I am the dirt that was sucked in, I am a dirty.
by outofleftfield on Sep 28, 2011 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions
And I quote lone1c
So, sure, I’ll certainly hope for the best—I’ll never root against the Sox.
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by Ben Buchanan on Sep 28, 2011 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions
I never said he would root against them
I just said that the fact that this is a Red Sox FAN site where we all root for and watch the Red Sox, this is a disgrace being on the front page. No better than the troll fanposts you have been getting lately, and if this is the site mentality now I know why those are showing up.
The fact that you are defending your writer makes sense. But to bash a community member because she feels differently makes no sense. You are basing this off because I was optimistic last year. You seem not to respond to that, because you have been proven wrong.
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by Marisa Ingemi on Sep 28, 2011 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm bashing you because you bashed him.
You didn’t disagree, you attempted to publicly shame him.
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by Ben Buchanan on Sep 28, 2011 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions
And yes, it is a Red Sox fan site.
To suggest there’s not a large contingency of fans feeling hopeless and betrayed seems a bit ridiculous.
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by Ben Buchanan on Sep 28, 2011 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions
We are all pissed off
I have tried to say that. Are you not reading what I am saying? I have debunked all your points and you ignore them all. I know we are pissed. Everyone is. But we are all critsizing the fanboy fanposts that are the same thing, so why not this?
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by Marisa Ingemi on Sep 28, 2011 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions
You haven't, though.
Your only point is “look, a lot of other people are publicly shaming the pessimist! And have been for a while!” This always happens, and it’s terrible.
The only thing lone1c has done here is represent a contingency of the fanbase that’s kicked off to its corner by people who only want to hear about faith and think they get to define what is and is not acceptable for a fan.
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by Ben Buchanan on Sep 28, 2011 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions
"debunked"
by Ryan Gilliss on Sep 28, 2011 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions
To suggest
that there is a large contigent of fans who won’t care if they win the World Series is dead flat wrong.
And that is what this post said.
I'm suggesting there's a large contingent of fans who will have difficulty investing much in a run right now.
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by Ben Buchanan on Sep 28, 2011 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes I did bash him
but so has everybody else. Why do you choose me? You have said clearly, I think. No one is publicly shaming anybody. He chose to publish this on a website that gets thousands of views. If he expected no response to this he did not think it out very well. I never personally bashed the guy, i just said the article stinks and it being on the front page is silly.
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by Marisa Ingemi on Sep 28, 2011 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Because you're first in line.
I click the topic, there you are. Everyone else is saying the same thing as you.
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by Ben Buchanan on Sep 28, 2011 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Reply to others too. Don’t make me the bad guy. Because more agree with me than you.
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by Marisa Ingemi on Sep 28, 2011 12:16 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
My reply would be the same. Everyone else said pretty much the same thing.
I don’t feel like copying and pasting my reply 40-odd times.
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by Ben Buchanan on Sep 28, 2011 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Makes it look like you are unfairly singling Marisa out.
Doesn’t look good from the peanut gallery, Ben.
You asserted an equivalence way up above between pessimism and unfounded optimism.
I agree that both are examples of human emotion, but you support the assertion with:
Both are done with the hope of protecting oneself.
That is, it seems to me, another assertion that is floating out there without support.
I would think that, conversely, optimism – especially ‘unfounded optimism’ – is anything but “protecting oneself.”
Optimism exposes oneself to the risk of future, bigger dissapointment. Giving in to pessimism early is a way of ‘cashing in’ the dissapointment early before it gets too big.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.
I've got a family friend who's a pessimest
He’s broke and “retired” at just over 50 and now trades penny stocks for a living. After he’s done with that he plays with his computer and his fish. Sure, he’s done some pretty cool stuff with his computer and connected machines (like make a wooden half model of the boat represented in my profile pic, but he’s still faaaaaaarrrrrrrrr from the happiest person I know.
Let's trade Reddick for Heyward!
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by QW on Sep 28, 2011 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Not unsupported
I said up there that optimism protects onesself from the unfortunate realities of the moment, while pessimism protects onesself from the possible negative outcome.
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by Ben Buchanan on Sep 28, 2011 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions
I think pessimism
does not motivate you to take appropriate action. Is that worth it to yourself a false sense of protection?
Let's trade Reddick for Heyward!
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by QW on Sep 28, 2011 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions
What action is there to be taken here?
This doesn’t apply in the least.
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by Ben Buchanan on Sep 28, 2011 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Ok
perhaps we can’t do much in this case, but cheering on the Sox might create some positive energy.
Let's trade Reddick for Heyward!
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by QW on Sep 28, 2011 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Positive energy in what way?
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by Ben Buchanan on Sep 28, 2011 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Ummmmm
like that crazy guy that doe the fundraisers for PBS talks about.
Let's trade Reddick for Heyward!
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by QW on Sep 28, 2011 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah
Not sure that’s really gonna help score runs/keep ’em off the board.
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by Ben Buchanan on Sep 28, 2011 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions
That's true
I think part of my point is more applicable to other types of situations
Let's trade Reddick for Heyward!
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by QW on Sep 28, 2011 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions
And for God's sake, yes you did.
Goodbye. If this team makes the playoffs, you better not be around. You gave up. Your season is now over, period.
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by Ben Buchanan on Sep 28, 2011 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Everyone else said that too!!!!!
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by Marisa Ingemi on Sep 28, 2011 12:15 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
So?
That doesn’t make it any better!
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by Ben Buchanan on Sep 28, 2011 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions
This is silly.
Run this site as you want, let these articles on the front page. Let Trolling happen. Not my problem.
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by Marisa Ingemi on Sep 28, 2011 12:23 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Yikes
Let’s all take a step back. In-fighting is not the answer.
The Red Sox suck, and I am the dirt that was sucked in, I am a dirty.
by outofleftfield on Sep 28, 2011 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions
You either confuse "trolling" with "people saying negative but reasonable things about the team,"
Or you’ve got a weird understanding as to how it is this whole “banning” thing works.
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by Ben Buchanan on Sep 28, 2011 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Are you threatening to ban me?
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by Marisa Ingemi on Sep 28, 2011 1:14 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
You've gotten crazier in your away time.
Did you meditate on a rock in the desert somewhere?
by Sologub on Sep 28, 2011 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
No, I'm not.
I’m saying I can’t ban trolls before they troll. That trolling occurs is not a sign of it being allowed to happen.
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by Ben Buchanan on Sep 28, 2011 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions
His negativity isn't the problem(although I'm not a fan of it).
It’s the quitting on the team that bothers me.
"Man you are one pathetic loser. No offense." - Lloyd Christmas
by Lloyd Christmas on Sep 28, 2011 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions
I think the reason this post grates
is that Red Sox fans used to take pride in the fact that the NEVER quit, even though their team had blown chance after chance.
I think that fact conferred a nobility to Red Sox fans before 2004 that made fans of other teams respect them.
It damn near defined who we were.
Hell, it used to be we EXPECTED to get screwed.
The Red Sox experience, and what made us unique (except for Cubs fans) was the fact that we didn’t quit on our team even though they had given us 86 years of exidence that we should.
Frankly I have seen this ending coming for weeks. I have thought the odds that were being quoted were absurd.
I don’t think they will win.
But I am a Red Sox fan. I am always going to care.
by flasoxfan on Sep 28, 2011 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Red Sox fans quit. They said "maybe next year" plenty of times, even before the fat lady sang.
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by Ben Buchanan on Sep 28, 2011 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions
ummmm
now’s not the time to say that. That’s what you say when you get eliminated from the playoffs at which point it’s perfectly justified.
Let's trade Reddick for Heyward!
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by QW on Sep 28, 2011 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Not believing your team can win
and not caring about what happens, are two very different things.
"Man you are one pathetic loser. No offense." - Lloyd Christmas
by Lloyd Christmas on Sep 28, 2011 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Again
So, sure, I’ll certainly hope for the best—I’ll never root against the Sox.
He’s just not going to get overly invested in what he believes to be a lost cause.
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by Ben Buchanan on Sep 28, 2011 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions
No
he really is saying he isn’t going to care.
I actually don’t believe him: I think if we win he will be watching the duck boats. I think he will watch every inning of the World Series.
But in this post he is saying he is not going to care.
And that isn’t who as a fanbase we are.
He's going to "hope for the best", and "never root against the Sox.",
But he isn’t going to care one way or the other.
But I’m not going to pray for a miracle, and I’m not going to get worked up, whatever the outcome. Whether the season ends in two games or twenty-two, they will do it without me (at least in spirit). I won’t tear all my hair out if there’s a choke, and I won’t howl at the moon if there’s a Duck Boat parade.
If that’s caring, please enlighten me.
"Man you are one pathetic loser. No offense." - Lloyd Christmas
by Lloyd Christmas on Sep 28, 2011 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions
It's caring. It's just not investing.
Not howling at the moon doesn’t mean not being happy.
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by Ben Buchanan on Sep 28, 2011 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, it's caring about himself.
If he cared about the team, he’d follow through all the way. How in your right mind can you justify a writer on this site giving up on the team when they still have a chance to do something great? If he wants to tell us why he thinks the team stinks, fine. If he wants to tell us they have no shot, fine. But don’t tell us your a fan, and then say your giving up when the going gets a little tough. This post is the epitome of the post 2004 fan. Sad really.
"Man you are one pathetic loser. No offense." - Lloyd Christmas
by Lloyd Christmas on Sep 28, 2011 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Of course he cares about himself, should he not?
Every fan makes a “bargain,” accepting that the losses will hurt and the wins will kick ass—especially when they’re big. Lone1c is just insuring that bet given the way things have happened. This isn’t “a little tough”. This isn’t a guy bailing out after losing Game 1 of the World Series or getting swept in a shit series. This is a historical, painful collapse that has brought almost nothing but misery for a month.
If he can’t take it, that doesn’t make him not a fan, it makes him human.
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by Ben Buchanan on Sep 28, 2011 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions
You really have no idea what it is to be a Red Sox fan.
Here’s a little secret; the Sox have had “historic” collapses before. Expecting them and still investing your heart and soul, used to be a badge of honor. What it meant to be a Red Sox fan.
"Man you are one pathetic loser. No offense." - Lloyd Christmas
by Lloyd Christmas on Sep 28, 2011 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Thanks, Lloyd Christmas, for assigning yourself as judge and jury in all cases of Red Sox fandom.
But I’m pretty sure I know damn well what it is to be a Red Sox fan, and I’m pretty sure it’s got a damn broader definition then you’ve decided on for everyone else.
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by Ben Buchanan on Sep 28, 2011 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Not judge and jury
Do what you like. But I know I damn sure don’t agree with it.
"Man you are one pathetic loser. No offense." - Lloyd Christmas
by Lloyd Christmas on Sep 28, 2011 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions
This is such an arrogant comment
by Ryan Gilliss on Sep 28, 2011 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Try to not get yourself banned
Let's trade Reddick for Heyward!
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by QW on Sep 28, 2011 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions
For agreeing with Ben?
by Ryan Gilliss on Sep 28, 2011 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Whoops
misread the reply formatting. My bad
Let's trade Reddick for Heyward!
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by QW on Sep 28, 2011 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Why are you inserting
yourself in an argument about the meaning of being a Red Sox fan?
It’s like a Floridan trying to describe what it means to be a New Englander to New Englanders.
No one person can decide who is or isn't a Red Sox Fan.
This includes you.
The Red Sox suck, and I am the dirt that was sucked in, I am a dirty.
I'm narcissistic, nihilistic, and arrogant. That's me in a nutshell.
by outofleftfield on Sep 28, 2011 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions
No, but I am allowed to my opinion.
That’s all any of this is, opinion.
"Man you are one pathetic loser. No offense." - Lloyd Christmas
by Lloyd Christmas on Sep 28, 2011 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Except that "You really have no idea what it is to be a Red Sox fan" doesn't really broker room for other opinions.
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by Ben Buchanan on Sep 28, 2011 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Sure it does
But I’m pretty sure I know damn well what it is to be a Red Sox fan, and I’m pretty sure it’s got a damn broader definition then you’ve decided on for everyone else.
There is your opinion.
"Man you are one pathetic loser. No offense." - Lloyd Christmas
by Lloyd Christmas on Sep 28, 2011 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions
This
"Man you are one pathetic loser. No offense." - Lloyd Christmas
by Lloyd Christmas on Sep 28, 2011 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions
I think it's because you know the rumors are true.
There is a lot of chatter in betting houses these days that the Bosox are on the take. Theo is being summoned by the Commish. And the primary name being circulated in the gossip mill is pitching tonight.
by bleedingyankeeblue on Sep 28, 2011 6:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Shocking.
Don’t let the screen door hitcha where the good Lord splitcha.
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
I was just typing something similar to this, but you beat me to it.
;)
"Man you are one pathetic loser. No offense." - Lloyd Christmas
by Lloyd Christmas on Sep 28, 2011 9:11 AM EDT up reply actions
You won't be missed.
Quitters rarely are.
"Man you are one pathetic loser. No offense." - Lloyd Christmas
by Lloyd Christmas on Sep 28, 2011 9:09 AM EDT reply actions
I think Paps has that competitive fire
And not just because on the field he looks like a madman. You could see it when they were interviewing players last night after the game. Pedey, Ortiz, Aceves…they all gave the same message as Paps…that it’s not over and they expect to go out and have to play the Rays in Game 163 but they have to go out and win tomorrow first, etc etc.
But the body language was different. Those guys seemed mentally exhausted (which they justifiably are) and just stating it in soft tones, matter of fact kind of way. You could see they were annoyed that they were getting asked asanine questions like “Could you feel your beating in your chest?”
But Paps…he had his wild eyes going with an excited tone of voice. You can tell he is fired up. You can tell he is daring anyone to call him a quitter, to say he has no heart. But, he can’t give that during the games because he is back in the bullpen until the game is over.
by The Name is Dalton on Sep 28, 2011 9:18 AM EDT reply actions
To be honest
I think they need a starter who has the mentality of Papelbon. Give me the ball when it is on the line and don’t you dare think about giving it to someone else.
by The Name is Dalton on Sep 28, 2011 9:19 AM EDT up reply actions
Lester is that guy.
I know his results lately has sucked. I know he is not as “Rah-rah!” as Papelbon. But Lester definitely strikes me as the kind of guy who WANTs the ball when things look like shit. He does not back down. The guy survived cancer – this stuff isn’t going to make him flinch.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.
Fair enough
Lester does seem like that kind of player now that you make me think about it, probably slipped my mind because like you said…he is more soft spoken and low key. And to be honest, maybe I’m wrong in that they don’t need that kind of Rah-rah starter. I don’t really know how common that attribute is among the top pitchers. Halladay is definately more low key, and even CC, Cliff Lee, Haren, and a lot of other guys also.
And to be fair, I still think he is a top pitcher in the league despite his recent performance. I think Lester’s slump has been in the spotlight more because the team has done so terrible that they really NEEDED him not to have games like that.
by The Name is Dalton on Sep 28, 2011 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions
you know who you described?
Two words: John Lackey. A bulldog mentality will only get you so far if you can’t locate your pitches.
True but I did say "starter"
Whereas John Lackey only pretends to be one on TV.
On a serious note, amend my statement to add the word “Capable” before the word starter.
by The Name is Dalton on Sep 28, 2011 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions
that was the roids. Pappys on the take too.
by bleedingyankeeblue on Sep 28, 2011 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions
SEE YOU GUYS NEXT YEAR
Hope too many of the Bosox players don’t get indicted. Paplebum looked pretty shady out there and did Crawford. Unbelievable collapse. Just unbelievable. I feel your pain. I remember 2004. But you Bosox fans should really really demand an investigation. $400,000,000 is a lot of money for no players not to be involved.
by bleedingyankeeblue on Sep 29, 2011 12:23 AM EDT up reply actions
This team...
…is clearly trying too had and therefore pressing. It hardly has the problem of not caring enough. It could actually use some “easy come, easy go” players like Manny Ramirez or some “idiots” like a Millar or Damon to keep these other guys loose.
The entire team is way too uptight, not a symptom of caring too little.
by UltimateCranston on Sep 28, 2011 9:20 AM EDT reply actions
No leadership? Are you kidding?
Pedroia, Ells, Ortiz, Beckett, Wakefield, Varitek. How about the grittiness of Youk, Lowrie, Scutaro, and even Drew trying to battle through injuries. And speaking of injuries, don’t you think that’s to blame for the poor play at times? Dice-K, Buchholz, Jenks, Wheeler, etc… too many to list. And who knew about Lackey’s family issues? Of course, that affected his mindset and his pitching. How could it not?
I think the team has heart. They may fail in the end, but I think they showed determination. They didn’t slump because they gave up.
You were confused. That was you.
by dsharp on Sep 28, 2011 9:22 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I've heard this a lot this week, "No Leadership" from the players
and “Too Tight” from Tito and “Didn’t prepare sufficiently at the trade deadline” for Theo.
All three of these are ridiculous. This team is full of leader. Tito may be the only manager in the game that can match Maddon’s carefree personna. Theo added the best SP we could get at the deadline. Don’t give me the Rich Harden stuff, he’s been awful away from OAK. Sure, Fister would have been great, as would Garza (my choice!) but Bedard was a significant upgrade.
This is an epicly bad run. It’s almost impossible for this team, with this talent, to lose this many games. That’s kinda why I feel good, if we can get through tonight, there is a lot of good luck coming our way in Tampa and the ALDS. This is a game of percentages, and we’ve been on the wrong side for weeks now.
We’re due.
+1
NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.
+2
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Sep 28, 2011 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions
Bosox are throwing games.
Bettors stand to make over $400,000,000 if Boston does not make the playoffs. Large bets were made at the end of August in several betting houses that Boston would not make the playoffs when odds against were at their highest. Coincidence, I don’t think so. One bettor has been identified as the ‘mistress’ of a Boston Red Sox player.
by bleedingyankeeblue on Sep 28, 2011 7:01 PM EDT up reply actions
In the last few days
I keep thinking about 2004, and an interview Jeter gave after Game 7 of the ALCS. The media kept on asking him why the Yankees weren’t able to win when the chips were down like they had in the late 90’s, or even the previous year. He kept saying the same things: those teams were able to do that, but this team is very different from the team even 2 years earlier.
Remember this:
‘On a workout day, Manny Ramirez gave Boston fans a real reason to get worked up. With the Red Sox just one loss from elimination, the star slugger was asked about Game 5 of the AL Championship Series against Cleveland. “Why should we panic?” he said Wednesday in a rare clubhouse interview. "We’ve got a great team."
And then, this: “It doesn’t happen, so who cares? There’s always next year. It’s not like it’s the end of the world.”Try telling that to all those people in New England.
Whatever, that’s Manny.
“When I hear that I say, that’s why Manny Ramirez is the kind of hitter that he is. There is a certain relaxation about Manny,” Red Sox president Larry Lucchino said on Boston’s WEEI radio Thursday morning.
“Calmness, yes, [he] essentially has it at all times. And when he’s got a bat in his hand he uses it effectively because of that focus. He’s just not tight. He was trying to say ‘you know, let’s don’t panic. We’re going out and play this game. We’re going to have fun … that’s how I took it. I know that certain words there are going to be jumped on, and people are going to suggest other things, but I think what you see in that is the essential Manny Ramirez, and one reason why for seven consecutive years we’ve seen an exceptional offensive [player].”
I don’t think this team isn’t trying hard. In fact, I suspect they need to relax. Remember, it was the emotionless JD Drew that hit the big Home Run in 2007.
After coming back down 3-0 in 2004 and 3-1 in 2007, I don’t see how a Red Sox fan could give up.
The one thing I was disappointed about last night was....
…that Lavarnway didn’t get the shaving cream pie in the face in the post game interview.
This team needs to get excited. Basically, we’re in the playoffs right now. What’s done is done, now is when it matters. Look at it like I do when I’m playing golf, if I’m nervous over a shot, it’s because I have played well enough to that point that it matters. You’re never nervous over the 4’ putt on 18 for 97. You’ve already crapped the bed at that point.
It's the 20 yard pitch over a bunker
next to the green when you need to get up and down on 18 for 79 that makes you nervous.
Exactly, but to make that pitch, you've hit 77 really good shots.
The Sox should look at like that. This game is tough, you’ve played for 6 months, 161 games, at a very high level for #162 (&163) to matter this much. Congratulations, you’re one of 10 teams that have played long enough to still be relevant.
I’m a bit shock at this post, it’s something I expect to see in a fan post from someone who perhaps only jumps the bandwagon when the Red Sox are successful, but not as front page material. This is clearly a post on quitting on the team, a true fan sticks with their team regardless of what’s going on and judging by the reaction so far in this post, seems your going to be alone on that quitting wagon.
by Outkastprince on Sep 28, 2011 9:28 AM EDT reply actions 6 recs
Looks like one of the recent troll fan posts.
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by Marisa Ingemi on Sep 28, 2011 10:08 AM EDT up reply actions
+1
It’s really quite revolting, to be honest.
I’m hoping this is revealed to be, like, satire or something.
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
I don't believe it
If the RS make the playoffs and wind up playing in the ALCS, no self-respecting Red Sox fan will miss a game.
It makes RS fans sound like spoiled brats.
The more I think of it the less I like it.
Same here.
The more I think about this post, the more annoyed I get.
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
The fact that this guy is a front page writer is pathetic. This is a top notch Red Sox blog that represents a strong community, to have one of the guys here who contributes to the main page thinking this way… glad he is off the bandwagon, we don’t need fans like that.
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by Marisa Ingemi on Sep 28, 2011 10:08 AM EDT up reply actions
Sox fans have caught
a bad rap lately. With ESPN’s obnoxious cover etc… But GTFO! If you don’t love this team fine. But I don’t hate Crawford, I don’t hate Gonzo, Pedey, Pap, Jed, MVP Jacoby Ellsbury, or Big Papi. This has been a crazy team to watch and they have certainly kept me on the edge of my seat.
Love your team from Game 1 to Game 163. Don’t be fickle, don’t be spoiled, love the fact that amid all of the doubting and media bitchiness, this team is still fighting.
Go Sox
by arbuch02 on Sep 28, 2011 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
This seems the best description of
the article.
"This team is still fighting"
Evidence?
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by Ben Buchanan on Sep 28, 2011 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions
Watch a game, you'll figure it out
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by Marisa Ingemi on Sep 28, 2011 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Lavarnaway yesterday, Ellsbury the day before, the starting pitching as a whole
It hasn’t been enough to win those games, but if they turned it on during the right games, they’ll be fine.
Something tells me that if we have a one game playoff, this team will play their hearts out.
The Red Sox suck, and I am the dirt that was sucked in, I am a dirty.
by outofleftfield on Sep 28, 2011 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Individual efforts. Ellsbury has been there throughout, and I think that Lavarnway is a great shot in the arm.
But while I don’t buy into the whole “guts and heart” thing, I’d say this team has been worn down and just isn’t in shape to last the whole season. Consider it the more logical version of that argument.
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by Ben Buchanan on Sep 28, 2011 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree with the fact it's individual efforts at this point
But I disagree with the mindset it means they aren’t trying.
When push comes to shove the team eventually gets it together.
I don’t think any of these players want to suffer the embarassment of missing the playoffs.
The Red Sox suck, and I am the dirt that was sucked in, I am a dirty.
by outofleftfield on Sep 28, 2011 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions
I can't imagine any do.
But I think the “fight”—that is, their actual physical ability to do so—is largely gone. Scutaro seems to be going strong, Ellsbury too. But guys like Gonzo, Ortiz, Pedroia, Beckett, and Lester just don’t seem to have it anymore—or at least not at their previous levels.
They all need a week or two off. Unfortunately, that’s just not possible.
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by Ben Buchanan on Sep 28, 2011 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions
I say give them a chance.
The fight isn’t over until they are done.
This brings up a certain point in my fanhood, that had me doubting for a moment like the rest of the Red Sox fans from coast to coast.
I remember that during the 2004 ALCS, people had given up, largely because the odds were impossible. If we could get through that, I think we can get through this.
No it’s not the same thing, yes, it is a different team. But I like to think that for what we lack from that team, we make up for in the production and leadership of Ellsbury and Pedroia. Those two just need to take this team on their back into the playoffs, and help them learn that they need to fight.
162 games is a hard task, especially if you are in your mid 30s. I can understand that, physically, they are tired. All teams are tired. They’ve all played the same amount of games, and are longing for even the slightest amount of rest.
This team won’t win the World Series, but I think they all realize if they can make the playoffs at this point, the fans will be happy.
The Red Sox suck, and I am the dirt that was sucked in, I am a dirty.
by outofleftfield on Sep 28, 2011 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Hell, they CAN win the World Series!
Anything’s possible, however unlikely.
I’m just not willing to attack lone1c for laying out, in a well thought out manner, exactly why he doesn’t feel he can afford to invest in that small opportunity.
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by Ben Buchanan on Sep 28, 2011 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions
And I agree with you
Down below I tried to express my own thoughts, that while I do not agree with his outlook, I respect it is his opinion.
It’s his decision on how much he puts into the team.
That aside, I personally am not willing to give up on this team yet.
The Red Sox suck, and I am the dirt that was sucked in, I am a dirty.
by outofleftfield on Sep 28, 2011 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions
And that's fine.
I’m just annoyed by how much this has turned into a public shaming.
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by Ben Buchanan on Sep 28, 2011 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions
I definitely understand that
It can get annoying. Even if a person is optimistic themselves, by turning it into a public shaming, they are only hurting the fanhood they claim to be part of.
Whether you are an optimist or a pessimist, whether you are actively still cheering for this team, or not, we are Red Sox fans.
We have our own views, and that’s what separates us from Rays fans ;)
The Red Sox suck, and I am the dirt that was sucked in, I am a dirty.
by outofleftfield on Sep 28, 2011 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions
This team is being paid to not make the playoffs.
by bleedingyankeeblue on Sep 28, 2011 7:05 PM EDT up reply actions
There is a big difference between being 'worn down' and "not fighting".
The former is a symptom of injuries and the grind from not having enough bodies taking its physical toll.
The latter is a character flaw (for a professional competitor).
I think that is what annoys a lot of folks who read comments that assert that the team ‘has no heart’ or ‘stopped fighting’ and such. It basically is the equivalent of saying the player’s have a character flaw.
Did they have a character flaw 5 weeks ago?
Just because a team lacks the capability to execute (due to lack of healthy bodies or lack of talent) doesn’t mean they aren’t fighting.
It also smacks of an ‘unfounded’ accusation to smear the character of the players when there is such a wealth of evidence of tangible reasons for failure (injuries, lesser talented replacement bodies, explicit and acknowledged instances of just plain rotten luck).
NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.
by mmmmm on Sep 28, 2011 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
There's a difference, yes
In that one is centered in sort of a classical view of the game, and another in a more…material way.
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by Ben Buchanan on Sep 28, 2011 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions
I guess I'm just saying that they're like two sides of one coin.
I don’t tend to deal with personality much at all when evaluating a team, while the hearts and guts folks like to deal almost primarily with that. I think it’s maybe the two results these groups will come to the most when looking at this particular sort of situation.
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by Ben Buchanan on Sep 28, 2011 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions
"two sides of one coin"
“worn down” and “not fighting” ???
In the context of these recent threads, “not fighting” clearly references intangibles while “worn down” would, I would think references the loss of healthy bodies from the roster and physical over-use of the remaining ones to make up for those losses.
I don’t see how they are two sides of the same coin.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.
Because the group who believes in intangibles look at the world differently.
When one side sees “worn down” the other sees “not fighting.” “Worn down” is often mistaken for “not fighting” by those who like intangibles and that sort of thing.
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by Ben Buchanan on Sep 28, 2011 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh - isn't that just sorta giving up on having a conversation?
We get to obfuscate behind using any terms by assigning them arbitrary definitions?
“When I called that man a ‘XXXXX-head’, it’s okay. That’s the term my group uses for ‘YYYYY’, which isn’t an insult at all.”
NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.
+1
This is like one of those fanposts that should be deleted.
Let's trade Reddick for Heyward!
Herreshoff.info -- The most awesome website since the invention of the internet.
beat the O's today, beat the Rays in a 1 game playoff if needed and you're in the playoffs
as much as I wish it was, your season isn’t over.
boom
For 86 years Red Sox Nation did not give up…I don’t plan start doing it now
by Ivan Monteiro Prado on Sep 28, 2011 10:25 AM EDT via iPhone app reply actions 2 recs
This
Is what should be on the front page.
"Man you are one pathetic loser. No offense." - Lloyd Christmas
by Lloyd Christmas on Sep 28, 2011 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions
so sick of hearing how it is over & you have given up...SHUT UP ALREADY!!!@!
First:
I am a lifelong, 3rd generation Red Sox fan from upstate NY. I have grown up in the Hudson Valley of NY, and lived amongst Yankees/Mets azzholes during the 1980’s & 1990’s. I live in Boston now. I watch practically every game, get to the ballpark a few times per season, and take 1-2 road trips to watch them. I understand the collapse entirely, and I understand the frustrations of the faithful, and I most definitely understand the stakes. We all get it…
I am so sick of reading these nasty blogs and news stories though, written by such angry, mean-spirited beat writer/bloggers & spoiled rotten “Red Sox faithful”, who have lost faith in the team’s ability to overcome this.
Yes, it is crisis. yes it is sad. NO, it is not because the team has given up or doesn’t care. The pitching has been bad all season, minus a few bright spots here and there. Bard has been terrible. The starting pitching sucks, and the bullpen is exhausted.
The injuries have hurt too. The lineup is in disarray too. But the team is still tied with 1 game left, for the last wildcard spot.
I am not suggesting that people have confidence in the team. But to quit on the team now is absurd. It is wrong. And you should all be ashamed of yourselves. GROW UP!
What to the DRaysBay members think when they read this? This is pathetic.
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They will probably quote it endlessly (because they quote everything from this site)
And then they would probably say that even though we (OTM) constantly make the same joke about them not having any fans(I’ve made the joke too), at least the fans they have on that site care. They would generalize, in other words about us as a whole.
by The Name is Dalton on Sep 28, 2011 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions
And this post opened the door for that. Poor decision.
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by Marisa Ingemi on Sep 28, 2011 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions
Who cares what they think
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Sep 28, 2011 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions
Personally I don’t want troll everywhere.
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by Marisa Ingemi on Sep 28, 2011 11:31 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Ignore them
And if the Sox make the playoffs they won’t be on this site, despite this post.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Sep 28, 2011 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions
I highly doubt
This post has provided the catalyst for draysbay to think nasty things about Sox fans.
by Sologub on Sep 28, 2011 11:55 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I wonder what they're saying about it
I bet they have a special “Red Sox Pessimism” thread going.
Let's trade Reddick for Heyward!
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by QW on Sep 28, 2011 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions
This is BASEBALL!
Yes, the collapse was disappointing, and the team has been catching bad breaks at all the wrong times, but god damn this is exciting! If you can’t get pumped up about a season on the line, go big or go home game. This is the kind of thing you tell your kids about 20 years later.
It sucks that we got here the way that we did, but last night was thrilling. Tonight has the most dramatic set up of any game I can remember. If there’s a head-to-head game, it’s going to be a roller coaster ride.
I’ve had “Vehicle” stuck in my head nonstop since I woke up this morning. I’m psyched and scared as hell and I can’t help but think of the Sox every other second and it’s awesome.
The Comments on this Page are AMAZING!
Forget the article, the comments show the true pride of our nation! Reading these comments bring hope, desire, and love for this team that never makes me give up hope! I’m studying in Finland now and I watch games until 630am! So, for someone on this blog that I check every freakin’ day to wave the white flag.. is very upsetting!
I wish the entire RS team could read these comments and see that the true fans have never given up hope! Well I’m off to Tweet all the Sox players with Twitter accounts. Maybe they’ll stumble upon these comments!
Live.Life.Love.Sox.
by Eric Mendes on Sep 28, 2011 10:41 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
It's all because of the pitching
The team hasn’t given up. The team hasn’t choked. The team hasn’t shown a lack of heart. This has been a pitching collapse. The team has scored plenty of runs over the entire month of September. Yes, there have been many days where they haven’t scored lots of runs, but that is always the case. They have scored plenty, and done it without their cleanup hitter. The reason that their record sucks in September is because the pitching has been absolutely horrible. And the idea that a guy like Beckett, who has a history of clutch performances and is gritty as hell, has no “heart”, is absurd. He is just not pitching well now. Lester obviously has a ton of heart as well. So this article is absurd. As few games as the Sox have won recently, some of them have been after the starting pitching has yet again dug a deep hole for them. And in these situations, it would have been easy for them to quit. But they haven’t quit. Just in the starting lineup, you have had great Septembers from Ellsbury and Scutaro. And it’s only the two starting catchers that have been hitting horribly. This has not been a team collapse. It has been a pitching collapse. If the pitching had just been slightly better than horrible, they would easily have made the playoffs.
Jeff Edelman
Student.com
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by Jeff Edelman on Sep 28, 2011 10:52 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
You say goodbye, I say hello.
It’s not over til it’s over. Not a fan of the defeatest attitude. Embrace the adversity, it makes us all stronger. Now, I know- like many of you- I’ve had my doom and gloom moments in the Game Threads. But I have nor will I ever give up on this team. I went to a convenience store last night after Paps gave me a heart attack because I needed ice cream. Of course I had on a Sox cap and the guy behind the counter told me I was “bold” for wearing it because the Sox were out of it. (Mind you I live in “Phillies/MFY” territory.). I informed him that no, the Sox are very much alive and that even if the Sox were in last place I’d wear the hat; unlike Phillies fans that turn tail when the team hits a losing streak. I tell this story because I want to emphasize that never will I turn my back on the Sox. NEVER! And neither should anyone else.
Just F@CKING win....play hard always!
by Fenway302 on Sep 28, 2011 10:57 AM EDT via mobile reply actions 1 recs
Relevent quote with bolded parts altered to be even more relevent
“What the fuck happened to the Red Sox Fans I used to know? Where’s the spirit? Where’s the guts, huh? This could be the greatest night of our lives, but you’re gonna let it be the worst. “Ooh, we’re afraid to go with you The Name Is Dalton, we might get in trouble.” Well just kiss my ass from now on! Not me! I’m not gonna take this. Maddon , he’s a dead man! Showalter, dead! Giradi…
by The Name is Dalton on Sep 28, 2011 11:10 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
NOTHING IS OVER UNTIL WE SAY IT'S OVER
by The Name is Dalton on Sep 28, 2011 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions
A lot of people here are saying it's over
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Sep 28, 2011 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions
This is rather shocking, even to me.
There’s a difference between pessimism (a time-honored and very justifiable part of Red Sox fandom) and defeatism; this post crosses that line. We’re tied. One, maybe two games left. Anything can happen. Why walk away now?
"What's so special about Lou Gehrig? Shouldn't EVERY Yankee have a disease named after him?"
I think this dude should have waited at least a couple days
Yes this collapse has been completely disheartening and shocking, but it’s not like the Red Sox are dead and buried. There’s still a chance for this season to be a successful one. If he could stick with the Sox for 160 games, why not 2 or 3 more? It’s just confusing.
That's kind of the point though, isn't it?
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by Ben Buchanan on Sep 28, 2011 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions
You know, I'd like to make a remark about how this says all kinds of things about us as a fanhood.
But I literally do not have the energy today.
Unrealistic odds, and a lot of bullshit games this past month have demoralized me.
Nevertheless, I still have faith in this team, and I will continue to believe until we are eliminated. There’s no punishment for having faith in a team you love. Don’t be afraid to love, or you never live.
That said, your choice is your choice, and while I don’t agree with you, I can respect that it is your choice. Just don’t hop on if we make the play offs and do well, that’s the one thing I can never agree with.
The Red Sox suck, and I am the dirt that was sucked in, I am a dirty.
by outofleftfield on Sep 28, 2011 12:03 PM EDT reply actions
And in the end
isn’t that why we’re fans? Isn’t that why we follow a team from beginning to end, the great, the horrible, the stories in between. It’s exhausting, it’s exhilerating, and at times it’s heartbreaking- but isn’t that the point? If it weren’t, we’d all be working instead of reading and writing posts. We’d have other hobbies…read a good book lately-WHY, the SOX are playing, and the season may come down to an extra game, and the playoffs still loom on the horizon, and hope springs eternal- and if not, well, then there’s next year, and the year after that, and God willing a year after that one… fans are fans for the emotion, the thrills, and the disappointments. If you’re not all-in, what’s the point?
I generally am all in.
I put my heart on the line every season, and don’t give up till the season is over for us.
It irritates me when people jump ship, but I understand and respect why they do it. It helps cushion the blow if something happens.
Yes, it takes away your committment, but it’s a move that you can feasibly do, I feel. I don’t agree with it, but it is a way out without having to be too upset at the result.
The Red Sox suck, and I am the dirt that was sucked in, I am a dirty.
by outofleftfield on Sep 28, 2011 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions
i guess then the question is
why bother investing anything at all. I agree with your level headed view point, as some of the others are a bit more harsh- but this shouldn’t have been posted. This is a blog about a team, and it comes off as uninspired as he claims the team is…it is his opinion, and his coping method, but it’s not what you want on your teams site…if you are going to back out, just when it’s about done…that just seems like a huge waist of time and energy…and what does it say about your character- i’m willing to hang with em if they’re good, and if they are winners, but if it’s going to go down hill- then I’m going to check out…nice.
by toonman on Sep 28, 2011 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I won't say whether it should have been posted or not.
That’s up for him and ultimately the site staff to decide.
He wanted to send a message, and he sent it loud and clear. Was it positive? no, it wasn’t.
Sometimes people need to make these posts, even if they won’t be accepted. It’s got more to do with pride I feel than anything. He wanted to post it, and I won’t bash him for it, even if I don’t agree with his view point.
The Red Sox suck, and I am the dirt that was sucked in, I am a dirty.
by outofleftfield on Sep 28, 2011 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions
It's not just about going downhill. It's the way they've done it.
Like I said somewhere in that confusion up above: extreme circumstances.
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by Ben Buchanan on Sep 28, 2011 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Way to go, Marisa and others
I’m very pleased to see people jumping all over this post. To be honest, the comments section of this website had become pretty insufferable over the last few weeks. I’m as bummed as anyone about this collapse—I can hardly sleep this week—but the level of whining and entitlement and blame assignation (I’m SO sick of hearing about leadership) was way out of control.
Whatever happens in the game today, this terrible, terrible post seems to have brought out a rush of optimism and appreciation for how exciting this team has been, and often, how good it has been. That definitely wasn’t lone1c’s goal, but I’ll take it.
by Jake_W on Sep 28, 2011 12:05 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Maybe this was a plan to get us fired up again. If so, it worked.
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I try to remain unbiased.....
but I still believe in this 2011 Red Sox team making the postseason and I’m nowhere near the optimist (nor the pessimist) that has been quite humorously presented here.
My opinion is means nothing on here, even if I was a regular, which I’m not…. However, I firmly believe that anything can happen once those postseason doors are open. Getting doubt may just put the chip on those guys shoulders that they need.
"People ask what I do in the Winter when there is no baseball. I stare out the window and wait for Spring." -- Rogers Horsby
Call it moralistic or "high horse" or whatever...
…but I DO think it’s wrong to give up on your team, even to avoid “hating” the Sox. Having lived and currently living in Pittsburgh, having lived in Royals territory, I think it’s a huge stretch to say that the team is worthy of giving up on thanks to one horrendous, terrible, no good month.
They may be out of the playoffs tonight, they may be in the playoffs tonight, and they may be preparing for the one game to decide it all tonight. But I can never accept an argument to give up on your team. I’m not saying lone1c is a bad person or damned to hell or anything. But I am saying that I feel that this is an argument that promotes bad character for a sports fan.
That’s my thought.
And I just think that's a weird double standard to set between quitting, and refusing to admit defeat when it's clear as day.
I’m not saying the latter is true in this case, mind, but it’s something that happens quite often with relatively little criticism, while people who go lone1c’s route are viciously attacked.
Neither way is really “brave,” one just acts like it is.
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by Ben Buchanan on Sep 28, 2011 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Like, if last year someone had posted a front-page piece detailing how hugely faithful they were
when the Sox are 6 down with 10 to go, the responses would have been “Yeah, I mean, I don’t really think so,” and “YEAH! YOU TELL ’EM! HERE WE GO RED SOX!”
The only time people get mad at optimists is when they try to force their view on others—which is definitely not something lone1c was doing here.
But because his ventured on the other side of “absolute realism,” he’s called a quitter with people wanting to run him out of town.
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by Ben Buchanan on Sep 28, 2011 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions
But because his ventured on the other side of "absolute realism," he’s called a quitter with people wanting to run him out of town.
WHAT? Are you saying giving up on the team is realistic?? I THINK NOT!
Sure, we might say that 10 hours from now (I sure hope not), but now is not the time for a story like this.
Let's trade Reddick for Heyward!
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No, I specifically put him on the other side of absolute realism.
As in more negative than is justified by the reality of the situation.
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by Ben Buchanan on Sep 28, 2011 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t really think that rooting for your team to pull off the improbably is really the equivalent of giving up on your team when they’ve still got a damn good chance, and posting an article about it the day after an exciting win.
I just don’t see that at all.
And yeah, we’re fans, positive thoughts about the Red Sox tend to get a better response than negative thoughts.
This is not an attack on you, Ben
But what do you mean by “absolute realism”? Last year, the optimists were somewhat deluded. The 2010 Sox never got close enough to a playoff spot in September to justify the optimism. This year, while they haven’t played well in September, they have their destiny in their hands. Sure TB has an advantage. But the Sox need to win one or two games to make the post-season.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Sep 28, 2011 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Absolute realism this year would be "The Sox have a chance, but based on the way they're playing, it seems like the Rays have a clear advantage."
And I was just giving the opposite example. Forget 2010 for a moment and consider down 6 with 10 to go. “I think they’ve got a good shot!” is pretty extreme, just like “I give up” with the team’s destiny technically still in its hands is pretty out there in the other direction is pretty extreme.
My problem is that one is greeted with rallying cries, the other with damnation despite the fact that they’re just two sides of the same coin: both ways of coping with a bad situation by legitimate fans of the team.
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by Ben Buchanan on Sep 28, 2011 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Obviously some editing issues at the end of the first paragraph there.
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by Ben Buchanan on Sep 28, 2011 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree that the Rays have an advantage
(1) They’re playing the MFY B-team tonight with Price on the mound.
(2) If there’s a tie-breaker tomorrow, they’ll play at home
(3) If there is a game tomorrow, the most likely Boston starter will be Lackey on short rest (that’s enough to try the confidence of even the most optimistic Sox fan).
But I also remember that the optimists were a minority last September; and they were pretty widely ridiculed. There are a lot of fans on this site that act as if negativity is realism. Right now, they’re in their glory.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Sep 28, 2011 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions
What B team?
by Ryan Gilliss on Sep 28, 2011 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions
They've already said that they are resting most of their starters tonight
Dellin Betances is starting. Expect other minor leaguers and secondary relievers to pitch tonight.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Sep 28, 2011 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Word is that
Girardi is starting all the regulars- probably not for the whole game, but for 5 innings or so at least
That is
about the best new I’ve heard all day.
But then I haven’t really heard much news today………
Let's trade Reddick for Heyward!
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by QW on Sep 28, 2011 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions
That makes me feel better
I’ll give the MFY credit. They played legit line-ups the first two games of the series.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Sep 28, 2011 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah...
thought I saw that all regs were starting
by Ryan Gilliss on Sep 28, 2011 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions
At least the Yankees show up on game days.
We may hate them more than the plague, but at least we can rely on them to go out and show up more or less =|
The Red Sox suck, and I am the dirt that was sucked in, I am a dirty.
I'm narcissistic, nihilistic, and arrogant. That's me in a nutshell.
by outofleftfield on Sep 28, 2011 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Really?
That’s actually pretty great.
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by Ben Buchanan on Sep 28, 2011 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah...
I thought I saw the lineup earlier
by Ryan Gilliss on Sep 28, 2011 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Just checked
It hasn’t been posted yet
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Sep 28, 2011 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions
espn is saying they are starting a rookie
Dellin Betances
Total Internet Points: 999
by Bowling_Guy25 on Sep 28, 2011 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions
lineup
by Ryan Gilliss on Sep 28, 2011 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions
just saying
Total Internet Points: 999
by Bowling_Guy25 on Sep 28, 2011 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions
see below
by Ryan Gilliss on Sep 28, 2011 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions
nobody expects them to trot out Sabathia for game 162
Hell, Betances is probably scarier than a few of the other guys they could throw out there
He's pretty scary for us
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Sep 28, 2011 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions
and also
optimism is “I think they can pull it off!”
pessimism is “I don’t think they’re gonna pull it off”
this is “I don’t care if they pull it off anymore”
Which is, in my mind, unbecoming of a fan and unbecoming of a red sox fan blog.
by wolf9309 on Sep 28, 2011 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I thin you might be right with the point of view
and I couldn’t agree more.
Let's trade Reddick for Heyward!
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by QW on Sep 28, 2011 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions
No one ever said any problem with pessimism
you are right, this is not anything. It’s no longer being a fan.
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by Marisa Ingemi on Sep 28, 2011 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions
it is defeatism
which is not the same thing as pessimism.
Lots of us fans are rightfully pessimistic about our chances – but 100% vested in beating those odds.
Defeatism is giving up – releasing your emotional vestment so as to not feel the full sting of dissapointment if/when it does come.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.
It
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by Marisa Ingemi on Sep 28, 2011 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions
It's almost like cheating
rooting for a team all year with us, then leaving when you think it’s over, which it is not.
BTW, weird timing. Why after a big win?
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by Marisa Ingemi on Sep 28, 2011 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions
He clearly wrote it before last night's game.
It’s not really cheating, it’s just cutting your losses. I agree with your first point – if you give up, you aren’t entitled to satisfaction from any playoff successes that come, should they come. That’s the tradeoff you make.
No, it's not
He’s just not going to be able to get as worked up about ‘em. That’s what he said. He hopes they win, so he’ll be happy if they do. But he won’t, as he said, howl at the moon.
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by Ben Buchanan on Sep 28, 2011 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Ben
He came out and said he wouldn’t care if they won the World Series.
This is the definition of a bandwagon fan.
by CelticPride on Sep 28, 2011 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I wouldn't call lone1c a bandwagon fan
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Sep 28, 2011 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions
No, no it's not.
In fact, a bandwagon fan would immediately throw themselves back in saying “I KNEW IT ALL ALONG RED SOX!!!!”
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by Ben Buchanan on Sep 28, 2011 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions
But defeat isn't clear as day
It never has been.
In fact, during this whole rotten collapse, we’ve never actually lost our wild card lead. Now, when it’s come right down to it, while the team is fighting for their lives (And I don’t believe they’ve “given up” or “don’t care”, as many have suggested), to give up on them now just seems…hollow. Like a betrayal of that covenant between fan and team.
Now I accept it as likely that, based purely on the probabilities, the Red Sox will not be in the playoffs. But I haven’t given up on them, and I still believe they can make it.
It’s the lack of belief in this piece that galls me. To me, being a fan is about believing unreasonably. In the case you cite below, 6 back with 10 to go, I wouldn’t say that someone who says “yeah guys, this isn’t gonna happen”, has given up on the team.
But someone who gives up in a dead heat? That’s a tough pill to swallow.
It's because of the way it's happened.
This doesn’t feel like a dead heat in the least. It feels like the Sox need to overcome a huge mountain. We haven’t won two-in-a-row in a month, much less three.
It is, as I’ve said over and over before, extreme circumstances.
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by Ben Buchanan on Sep 28, 2011 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Wow my new and old comments are totally screwed thanks to the mass deleting.
Anyway, yes, I agree, I made the same argument to QW below. Taking a step back for a few hours, I do agree that several of the attacks made were mean-spirited, though I hope what I was saying wasn’t.
I still have a hard time seeing “withdrawing from emotional investment” as being anything besides giving up, though. If someone wants to bloodlessly appreciate the Red Sox that’s perfectly valid, I think we probably do it for a lot of other teams, but I still wouldn’t say it’s what a fan should do.
Optimists are viciously attacked on this site with regularity.
See any game thread.
This is true
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Sep 28, 2011 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions
LOL - 'tis nothing compared to the CelticsBlog threads!!!
NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.
Agreed
"Man you are one pathetic loser. No offense." - Lloyd Christmas
by Lloyd Christmas on Sep 28, 2011 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Optimists are more attacked when they call out other people, which happens A LOT.
If they just say “OK, two innings left, we can still come back!” they might get disagreement, but it’s pretty much only when they say “God you guys are such terrible fans! It’s only the sixth inning!” that people really return fire.
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by Ben Buchanan on Sep 28, 2011 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions
by the same token
if in a game thread, someone posts “the way the Sox are doing, there’s no way they’re coming back”
They aren’t going to get attacked, beyond maybe someone saying “there’s still hope” or something to that effect. It’s not a matter of just pessimism.
But the key is that it's self-contained.
It’s the pushiness that’s the problem. If lone1c had come on here and told everyone they should quit on the team, then yeah, I’d have a problem. But he didn’t. He even titled it “from lone1c’s diary”. It’s clearly just how he feels about the team right now, and it’s the way I’m sure a lot of people are feeling right now. It’s the brow-beaten silent minority out there, and something worth saying, honestly.
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by Ben Buchanan on Sep 28, 2011 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions
and how would you feel about it if Dan Shaughnessy had written the same exact thing?
because it’s exactly the type of mindset he would write from.
This
"Man you are one pathetic loser. No offense." - Lloyd Christmas
by Lloyd Christmas on Sep 28, 2011 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Pessimists are now the silent minority?
Since when?
"Man you are one pathetic loser. No offense." - Lloyd Christmas
by Lloyd Christmas on Sep 28, 2011 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Those who are doing what lone1c are, yes.
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by Ben Buchanan on Sep 28, 2011 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions
But, as we've discussed, what lone1c expressed isn't just pessimism
It is his defeatism that triggered such a negative reaction.
LOTS of us express pessimism all the time.
When I say, “Geeze, I know our chances are pretty suck and we’ll likely be eager for the Hot Stove League next week, but I hope like hell Lester shuts ’em down and the MFY somehow pull out an unlikely win!”, that is actually a pessimistic statement.
But it is not defeatist.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.
Could not agree more, Sologub.
As a Saints fan through the worst of the worst of times I know what those lean years are like and now I know what the years of potential and not living up to it is like. Truly something special when it all came together, but continuing to never give up on those teams is what separated me and my brother in-law from the aggravating couyons that trashed the Saints when they got down. In 2005, it was just me and him in my living room, then when we started winning my place was packed. In a way, I hated them for “bandwagon jumping” and sharing in something special when we had been there all along.
Red Sox fans, I’ve noted, have been loyal AND pessimistic at the same time! It happens. Don’t wish any bad gris-gris on the Sox… and just because you have the right to bash your own team or “keep it real”istic, doesn’t mean you should.
"People ask what I do in the Winter when there is no baseball. I stare out the window and wait for Spring." -- Rogers Horsby
by CajunCavern on Sep 28, 2011 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
My 'other' favorite baseball team is the Mariners.
Never give up. Even after the season is over and you once again, per the whole long stinkin history of the franchise, posted yet another season with less than 81 wins … because eventually it had to turn around. And it did. And 1995 happened.
Even though they never did reach/win the WS and have sunk back to misery, the glory of that 1995 ALDS playoff victory over the MFYs will never fade.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.
At the very least
He has prompted a clear display of the emotional roller coaster, to judge by the comments. As a moderately optimistic fan faced with the current grim probabilities, I can see why he would want to step back from a shitstorm like this. The shitstorm in question, I think, is not the game, but the reactions of a wide spectrum of fans who don’t seem to believe that anyone can still be a fan if they are on the other side (or no side) of the optimist/pessimist divide. Feast or famine, indeed.
I believe the Sox will play in October. I don't hate Theo or Tito. I think Crawford and Lackey are both better than their results this year.
Oh I'm pessimistic as all hell
Even if we scrounge our way into the playoffs, I don’t see us doing much given our pitching staff’s sudden lack of ability in getting anyone out. But checking out on your team when you have a shot at the playoffs? That’s just sick.
I don't believe he is.
I think he is checking out on us (meaning the community in general).
I believe the Sox will play in October. I don't hate Theo or Tito. I think Crawford and Lackey are both better than their results this year.
This tells me he's checking out on the team
I’m not going to get worked up, whatever the outcome. Whether the season ends in two games or twenty-two, they will do it without me (at least in spirit). I won’t tear all my hair out if there’s a choke, and I won’t howl at the moon if there’s a Duck Boat parade.
I’m checking off the emotional roller coaster now, so that I’ll be able to get on it again next year.
If I missed something, feel free to enlighten me.
Let's trade Reddick for Heyward!
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by QW on Sep 28, 2011 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions
I just feel that there is a differene
Between the words he uses here and what he really means. Just a hunch.
I believe the Sox will play in October. I don't hate Theo or Tito. I think Crawford and Lackey are both better than their results this year.
Yeah, pessimism isn't that big of a deal.
A ton of us here are pessimists and with good reason. You can be pessimistic about our chances and yet totally vested in and rooting for our success – despite the odds.
Its the defeatism (which is completely different) that is bothersome.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.
This article is an embarrassment to OTM.
This should not be on the front page. I hate to compare us to Rays fans, but guess what guys, the Rays are in pretty much the same spot we are. Are they giving up??? NO! Are they putting stupid stories like this on their front page? NO (at least, not at last check…..)! Ok, sure, I can see this happening in Chicago, or Toronto, or Pittsburgh, or Florida right about now, but here? No. This season is certainly not over.
I’ve never seen an article get such a negative reaction anywhere. I’ve also never seen one that deserved it quite as much as this one.
Let's trade Reddick for Heyward!
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Now see, this is stupid.
The Rays are in the same spot we are and optimistic because they have beat the shit out of us in the past month and played baseball that’s about a million times better than we are. Meanwhile we have undergone one of the worst collapses in the history of baseball.
There are some problems with this article, but use your brain a little.
Let's look at the past few days here
Lackey had a good start
Ellsbury has 4 HRs
Larvarnway is lifting off
Scutaro is on an absolute tear (OPS over 1 this month)
Avelis is hitting well
Gonzalez is fairly hot
I could go further but my point is we have reason to be feeling at least somewhat confident that our team is now capable of performing.
Let's trade Reddick for Heyward!
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by QW on Sep 28, 2011 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Which has no relevance to what you said.
You claimed that the Rays fans were better because they were optimistic while we were pessimistic, while ignoring that the Rays are on the cusp of one of the best comebacks ever, while as a corollary the Red Sox are teetering on the abyss of one of the worst collapses ever.
And you wonder why the Rays are happier than the Red Sox? Really?
I never said that the Rays fans are better than Sox fans
My point is that we need not be so pessimistic. That’s not going to help. We need to be excited that we’re in contention for a playoff spot at all, while there are 9 other teams that can’t sat the same.
Let's trade Reddick for Heyward!
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by QW on Sep 28, 2011 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions
This was implied when you compared Rays fans to Sox fans.
The comparison is specious.
Frankly, while I am happy to support the Sox and thrilled their in playoff contention, we do NOT need to be excited about being in contention for playoff spot that by rights should have been wrapped up 20 something days ago. We just need to hang on and hope.
But we are also expected, year in and year out, to be a contender.
In that way, we are very spoiled.
The fact it isn’t locked up is what is causing the pessimism. Even if I don’t agree with it.
The Red Sox suck, and I am the dirt that was sucked in, I am a dirty.
by outofleftfield on Sep 28, 2011 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't agree
Maybe a few people have the entitlement thing going on, but I think most people aren’t upset because they feel entitled to the playoffs. They’re upset because this collapse has been utterly deviant from the play the Sox showed over the vast majority of their time this season. I know that’s why I’m upset.
My view is that it's not just the playoffs thing, but the fact we ARE supposed to be better.
So I’m confused as to how you disagree with me.
The Red Sox suck, and I am the dirt that was sucked in, I am a dirty.
by outofleftfield on Sep 28, 2011 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Basically I don't agree that it's a MFY thing
Where just because the Yankees miss the playoffs that means that there’s been a cosmic injustice perpetrated.
I think the Red Sox missing the playoffs in and of itself is not a problem – see 2010, for example, where injuries contributed strongly to this outcome. The problem is the way in which it is done. And of course, if they miss the playoffs this year, that’s…well, absurd.
I understand that
but how do you think Indians fans or Pirates fans or Giants fans or 2010 Padres fans feel/felt?
Let's trade Reddick for Heyward!
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by QW on Sep 28, 2011 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Point being that not all people that feel like we do
are fortunate enough to be in the race this late in the season.
Let's trade Reddick for Heyward!
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by QW on Sep 28, 2011 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Different mentalities
Someone said “first world problems” the other day, and it’s pretty accurate. But just because some teams don’t contend doesn’t mean every contender should accept poor play without commenting on it just because they are happy to be in the playoffs.
I was about to use the first/second/third world comparison
just a minute ago, and then thought better of it. I’m not saying that we don’t have a right be be dissatisfied with the way our team has played over the last month, but it does not warrant giving up on the team. Being in the playoff hunt is still something we should be happy about when the above mentioned teams who had similar situations are far less fortunate.
Let's trade Reddick for Heyward!
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by QW on Sep 28, 2011 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree no one should give up
Being in the playoff hunt…eh. I still can’t agree based on that with even mediocre to bad play the wild card would have been ours a week ago.
Not in the playoff hunt?
so they are mathematically eliminated? They are in the hunt, good chances or not.
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by Marisa Ingemi on Sep 28, 2011 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions
My point is
Just being in the hunt is something we should not be happy about in and of itself, because we should have sewn it up weeks ago.
Oh I agree
but we should feel better than not being in the hunt at all.
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by Marisa Ingemi on Sep 28, 2011 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions
The difference is
That you’re a person freaking out about having their leg chopped off by an axe right now, while the other people have coped and moved on. Of course you feel worse right now, even with the possibility of keeping your leg.
Except you have to add the historic proportions of how embarassing your method of losing your leg is, and how it’ll always go down in history as one of the worst ways to lose a limb of all time if it happens.
Ah shit, this metaphor is FUCKED.
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by Ben Buchanan on Sep 28, 2011 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Naw man. Not doing that.
I can’t bring myself to give up on him.
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by Ben Buchanan on Sep 28, 2011 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions
I keep thinking
Damn, we dodged a bullet with Werth.
The Red Sox suck, and I am the dirt that was sucked in, I am a dirty.
I'm narcissistic, nihilistic, and arrogant. That's me in a nutshell.
by outofleftfield on Sep 28, 2011 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions
This
Way more long term upside with Crawford
Let's trade Reddick for Heyward!
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by QW on Sep 28, 2011 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Naw
Crawford’s on the take. Along with Papelbum, Beckett, Bucholz and two others. Indictments are coming.
by bleedingyankeeblue on Sep 29, 2011 12:33 AM EDT up reply actions
You're acting like we're entitled or something
Remember the Yankees missing the playoffs with the biggest payroll a couple years back?
Let's trade Reddick for Heyward!
Herreshoff.info -- The most awesome website since the invention of the internet.
by QW on Sep 28, 2011 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Entitled? No
But are you saying that a 9 game lead to begin the month did not provide us a reasonable expectation of winning the wild card in easy fashion?
No
but I’m saying we should feel happy that we have this chance to begin with. Kind of like having a job vs. not having a job these days.
Let's trade Reddick for Heyward!
Herreshoff.info -- The most awesome website since the invention of the internet.
by QW on Sep 28, 2011 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions
There are ample stats
To support either an optimist or a pessimist. Whichever side one starts out on, there’s no stat so overwhelming as to make one shift.
I believe the Sox will play in October. I don't hate Theo or Tito. I think Crawford and Lackey are both better than their results this year.
I would not say that we are optimistic by any stretch of anyone's imagination....
we still have to win one more game at the least. Y’all have to beat the Orioles. I still think the Sox have the advantage.
by Ryan Gilliss on Sep 28, 2011 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions
So that was all a show
you put on for us on our gamethread day before yesterday?
Let's trade Reddick for Heyward!
Herreshoff.info -- The most awesome website since the invention of the internet.
by QW on Sep 28, 2011 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Me?
by Ryan Gilliss on Sep 28, 2011 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Not necessarily you
but a some people came over and talked big about the Rays.
Let's trade Reddick for Heyward!
Herreshoff.info -- The most awesome website since the invention of the internet.
by QW on Sep 28, 2011 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions
I would imagine that Rays and Sox fans feel pretty much the same...
nervous as all hell.
by Ryan Gilliss on Sep 28, 2011 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions
I think in general this is probably true.
Although both will feel a little different I feel in terms of being disappointed.
The Red Sox suck, and I am the dirt that was sucked in, I am a dirty.
by outofleftfield on Sep 28, 2011 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Who knows...
the Rays have missed some opportunities to make today not matter.
by Ryan Gilliss on Sep 28, 2011 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions
As have the Red Sox.
At this point, it’s more a matter of we had such high expectations this season, with some people saying 100 wins or bust.
Had we not started 2-10, or had a shitempber, then maybe today wouldn’t matter.
The Red Sox suck, and I am the dirt that was sucked in, I am a dirty.
by outofleftfield on Sep 28, 2011 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions
We started 1-8...
if they had been paying as well the last half of the month as the first half it would be different
by Ryan Gilliss on Sep 28, 2011 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Again, more or less the expectations.
Not from me per se, but this team was supposed to be a World Series team from day one.
Obviously, we are not playing like those World Series Champs.
The Red Sox suck, and I am the dirt that was sucked in, I am a dirty.
by outofleftfield on Sep 28, 2011 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Getting rid of Manny
really seemed to help you guys
Let's trade Reddick for Heyward!
Herreshoff.info -- The most awesome website since the invention of the internet.
by QW on Sep 28, 2011 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions
gotta agree with Hatfield...
we would have loved to have Manny all year. He got rid of himself.
by Ryan Gilliss on Sep 28, 2011 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions
And now he's trying to un-getridofhimself
Let's trade Reddick for Heyward!
Herreshoff.info -- The most awesome website since the invention of the internet.
by QW on Sep 28, 2011 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions
I have a question, what team are you going to root for now?
In Lax We Trust - Official Pro Lacrosse Blog of SBN
Follow me on Twitter - In Lax We Trust
I think he's
entirely checked out of baseball for 2011.
I’m going Brewers if we go down.
Let's trade Reddick for Heyward!
Herreshoff.info -- The most awesome website since the invention of the internet.
by QW on Sep 28, 2011 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions
The way he made it sound, it seems clear he's checking out till next year
As for myself, if we go down, I’m not watching the playoffs. I’m a baseball fan, and on top of that, a Red Sox fan. While I will follow, I will not watch or root for any of the other teams.
The Red Sox suck, and I am the dirt that was sucked in, I am a dirty.
by outofleftfield on Sep 28, 2011 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions
I will watch every game
But root? No.
In Lax We Trust - Official Pro Lacrosse Blog of SBN
Follow me on Twitter - In Lax We Trust
by Marisa Ingemi on Sep 28, 2011 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Then you have more fortitude than I
Because none of the teams I feel are really worth the time to watch. Just feels like a shitty post season.
The Red Sox suck, and I am the dirt that was sucked in, I am a dirty.
by outofleftfield on Sep 28, 2011 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions
The Philles pitching staff?
A Brewers team winning their division for the first time in decades? Worst to first Arizona? Verlander and the Tigers?
Yeah, no good teams or nothing.
In Lax We Trust - Official Pro Lacrosse Blog of SBN
Follow me on Twitter - In Lax We Trust
by Marisa Ingemi on Sep 28, 2011 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions
I hate the Phillies, much like 99% of things to come out of PA
I find the Brewers… boring. Never could get behind them. The Diamondbacks, like the majority of NL teams just aren’t really all that interesting to me.
I also have a dislike of the Tigers.
I don’t expect anyone to understand. I just don’t like any of the teams. Like at all.
The Red Sox suck, and I am the dirt that was sucked in, I am a dirty.
by outofleftfield on Sep 28, 2011 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions
"Red Sox/Bulls/Cowboys"
Oh man, everyone must hate you, especially people who aren’t a fan of any of those 3 teams.
Eh, I've gotten used to it
I liked all three teams when they sucked. So I don’t feel like a lesser fan by any means.
That aside, baseball is the only sport I have only a couple teams I care about, and none of the other teams I care about happen to be in the post season. That’s just unfortunate for me.
The Red Sox suck, and I am the dirt that was sucked in, I am a dirty.
by outofleftfield on Sep 28, 2011 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions
I really love following NL baseball
because I have no particular special interest in it and I can enjoy the games without worrying about how it’ll impact the Sox. I know you’ll probably hate me for saying this, but my #2-3 team is Philadelphia. Why? Because I find it’s always fun to watch the Phillies in the NLCS or the WS or whatever with my Phillies fan Aunt. I guess it helps that that side of the family generally does it’s visiting during the postseason.
Let's trade Reddick for Heyward!
Herreshoff.info -- The most awesome website since the invention of the internet.
by QW on Sep 28, 2011 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions
I love not having the DH, too.
Adds so much interest getting to watch Cliff Lee rack up the SBs.
Let's trade Reddick for Heyward!
Herreshoff.info -- The most awesome website since the invention of the internet.
by QW on Sep 28, 2011 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions
I have nothing against you for liking the Phillies
I just have an unreasonable bias against most things in Pennsylvannia. I was born there, and while I only lived there two years, most of the traumatic events of early childhood are there.
(I’m not joking)
It’s not really a reason for me to dislike the Phillies, I realize. I just don’t like them.
The Red Sox suck, and I am the dirt that was sucked in, I am a dirty.
by outofleftfield on Sep 28, 2011 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't like anything in Philly either
Thanks, Flyers.
In Lax We Trust - Official Pro Lacrosse Blog of SBN
Follow me on Twitter - In Lax We Trust
by Marisa Ingemi on Sep 28, 2011 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Even if I wasn't going to root for anyone.
I’d still watch because they’re always great games.
Let's trade Reddick for Heyward!
Herreshoff.info -- The most awesome website since the invention of the internet.
by QW on Sep 28, 2011 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions
As I've said above
I just don’t see the point in watching the games since I no longer have that special investment in a team.
I’m fan, but I won’t watch. I have better things to do than watch a team I don’t care about.
The Red Sox suck, and I am the dirt that was sucked in, I am a dirty.
by outofleftfield on Sep 28, 2011 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybe I'm more a fan of baseball in general
than a lot of us here are. I love a great game if I have time to watch, regardless of the teams.
Let's trade Reddick for Heyward!
Herreshoff.info -- The most awesome website since the invention of the internet.
by QW on Sep 28, 2011 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree
I won’t be missing any post season games.
In Lax We Trust - Official Pro Lacrosse Blog of SBN
Follow me on Twitter - In Lax We Trust
by Marisa Ingemi on Sep 28, 2011 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Gee
I wish I had that kind of time…….
Let's trade Reddick for Heyward!
Herreshoff.info -- The most awesome website since the invention of the internet.
by QW on Sep 28, 2011 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions
That's not wrong by any means
I just lack the interest in most of the teams in the playoffs.
The Red Sox suck, and I am the dirt that was sucked in, I am a dirty.
by outofleftfield on Sep 28, 2011 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't agree with lone1c on any of this, really
Using terms like leadership and fight is perfectly fine, but the vague meanings they carry makes for very superficial arguments. If leadership is a result of on-the-field performance, how can you say Ellsbury has not been a leader throughout the year, especially in September? If it is a clubhouse thing, how can you explain years of excellent leadership by players like Varitek, Papi and Pedroia suddenly eroding in a flash? I don’t buy that argument.
As for fight, how do you display fight in a baseball game? Was Beckett not fighting when he got a strike out to end the 5th with the bases loaded on Monday? Was Ells not fighting when he hit two home runs in a losing effort against the MFY. Are they not fighting or just not winning?
This team was extremely streaky when it was looking its best. While a full month of poor performances is more than a bad streak, the team can still turn things around. When you are losing, you get hit harder by bad breaks (like the Andino home run) but as long the team can make the playoffs, I am not ready to write them off.
Suppose Lester throws 8 shutout innings and the Rays lose. We start anew with one of the best lineups in the game. How anyone can write this season of before out number 27 of tonight’s game is beyond me. Th 06 Cardinals won just 86 games, backed their way into the playoff on the last day and won the World Series behind a masterful playoff run by Jeff Suppan. If that can happen, I am not even close to done with the 2011 Red Sox.
On three… one .. two … three..
Let’s Go Red Sox
- Matt Sullivan
"I would change policy, bring back natural grass and nickel beer. Baseball is the belly-button of our society. Straighten out baseball, and you straighten out the rest of the world." Bill "Spaceman" Lee
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by Mattsullivan on Sep 28, 2011 1:42 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I think it was Uncle Buck who said
“Look out if the Sox get into the playoffs. They will go from having pressure to having none in a day. The relief off their shoulders could create some serious momentum.”
Or something to that effect.
I don't understand the hate this is getting
It’s not “quitting”, its choosing not to get too invested in the final outcome of this season—because if the Sox do lose its a fucking soul crusher. Pessimism isn’t quitting.
Nice article…ignore the unjustified hate.
He's quit
No one likes a quitter:
" But I’m not going to pray for a miracle, and I’m not going to get worked up, whatever the outcome. Whether the season ends in two games or twenty-two, they will do it without me"
This says if the Red Sox wins the world series, (s)he won’t care. What kind of fan is that?
Like I said, its not quitting
I’m sure he’ll be watching the game tonight and hoping, like all of us, for a win.
“So, sure, I’ll certainly hope for the best—I’ll never root against the Sox.”
As far as this being posted
I do kind of think it’s wrong. If this was written about how the Sox gave up and didn’t make the playoffs and they let us down, I would understand…if it was posted tomorrow or Friday. But this is in the same vein of every other article I’ve read about the Sox collapse. It admits defeat. It acknowledges we’re done. We’re not.
I don’t watch baseball for the realism that the average major league player gets a hit one out of every four times. I watch for the times when they rise up and do something unexpected and superhuman. I watch for when teams come back from down 3-0 to advance and win the World Series. “Look at the facts.” I won’t look at the facts until after it’s over so I can understand how and where it went wrong. But, it’s not over. And if you can’t look at it that way then I am sorry.
Go Sox
by MikeAtBU on Sep 28, 2011 2:13 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
rec'd
Let's trade Reddick for Heyward!
Herreshoff.info -- The most awesome website since the invention of the internet.
by QW on Sep 28, 2011 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions
I think it's kinda sad that this one message gets thousands of comments
and the Rays can’t even fill their ballpark for some of the most important regular season games in their franchise’s history. There’s such a passion disparity between the two fanbases.
by JordanS on Sep 28, 2011 2:20 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
It certainly isn't because the employment levels in the Bay area are at Great Depression levels
by Ryan Gilliss on Sep 28, 2011 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Nope, it's historical
The Rays have never drawn fans, even in their glory year of 2008, which BTW preceded the truly bad economic meltdown.
--
"No left turn unstoned"
(road sign created by the Merry Pranksters)
This is an article on the Red Sox
regarding their team, their fans, and their playoff hopes. Your comment about the Ray’s fans is just as useless and as petty as their fans who constantly come over her to add nothing to the discussion. Congratulations.
Go Sox
by MikeAtBU on Sep 28, 2011 2:38 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
There's really nothing more to be said
lone1c was expressing an opinion to which the overwhelming majority of the people on here responded very negatively. I’m not saying that he’s completely wrong or right in voicing his opinion, but basically all arguments have been fleshed out. So forgive me for trying to vary the topics of discussion, I’ll just stick to regurgitating what’s already been said from now on. I love the Sox and I think very highly of this blog, but talking about the same things over and over gets kinda old for me after a while
Ok guys
I think we’re beating a dead horse at this point. I’m going to move on with my day now.
PS how is that daveh33 guy not banned yet?
Let's trade Reddick for Heyward!
Herreshoff.info -- The most awesome website since the invention of the internet.
and Hatfield was?
seems odd.
by Ryan Gilliss on Sep 28, 2011 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions
I get it but still...
After 2004, I don’t see how any true Red Sox fan could ever give up. Ever.
I can see wanting to give up and say goodbye after everything that’s happened to you this month, but to actually take that leap when you still have a shot? That’s crazy. I thought 2004 taught everyone that Yogi was really, truly right.
And this is coming from a Yankees fan.
Anyway, good luck.
by Darren From The Bronx on Sep 28, 2011 3:26 PM EDT reply actions
A-Rod scratched, sore knee. Laird in at third, hitting 9th.
Contributing writer for Pinstripe Alley.
I believe in the Church of Baseball.
- Annie Savoy
You go through The Sporting News for the last 100 years, and you will find two things are always true. You never have enough pitching, and nobody ever made money.
- Donald Fehr
by Frank Campagnola on Sep 28, 2011 6:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Wow
this post makes me sad. Am I frustrated? Sure. Does this month make me question things I thought I understood about sports? Umm hmm. Have I somewhat avoided this site of late? Why not-given the infighting and trolling. But come on-sports is entertainment. Do I think the Sox have put them in a good position to actually get in the playoffs? Hell no. Am I going to hope the Sox make it against the bad odds they have created and make a run? Why not. It is one thing to be passionate-but come on-the failure of the team is not your failure, just as the success of the team is not your accomplishment.
This collapse has nothing to do with the team in TB
The team in TB should be respected, they are a fine organization. I think all of us here would agree the animosity towards them is 99.9% about their terrible fan base. That team plays aggressive, fun to watch, smart baseball. There is not a lot to like about the team that plays in TB, and how they play the game itself. They have the Red Sox number, which is unfortunate, but it happens in all sports from time to time.
They deserve so much more than they are given.
This collapse is about the 2011 Boston Red Sox organization quitting. I hope I’m wrong, tonight’s game, and if there is a game tomorrow will tell me a lot about if I am wrong or right.
I would love to be wrong.
the 2011 Red Sox have turned into shit
Oh good, now we're turning on each other
The Red Sox have put us through more than we deserve. People will Deal the way they deal. nuf ced.
Infidel! Shun the non-believer!!!
"Playoffs?!? Don't talk about playoffs! Are you kidding me? I just hope we can win a game!"
- Jim Mora, seeing through space and time to describe the 2011 Boston Red Sox
by nuthinboutnuthin on Sep 28, 2011 6:18 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Man, it's getting crazy over here
Listen, you should never give up on your team. You aren’t going to win the World Series every year, so any team is destined to fail far more often than they reach the pinnacle. Along with the highs come the occasional lows. I don’t know why this guy would even be giving up at this point, since you’re not eliminated. The Red Sox still hold their own destiny in their hands, they have to win 2 games to make the playoffs. You’ve won 2 games in a row before.
If the roles were reversed and it was the Yankees looking at possibly missing the playoffs, and one of my friends started spewing pessimistic garbage like that, I would tell him to stfu, because there is no reason for it. All being pessimistic does is make you bitter. Stay positive. Even if your team misses the playoffs, look at the positives from the year. Ellsbury has really emerged as a top-flight player, AGon was everything you thought he’d be, Beckett has returned to his ace form, and some of your young players look like they will be good contributors in the future. Carl Crawford isn’t this bad of a player, so he will be better going forward, and you will have Buchholz back next year.
From reading some of these comments, it’s almost as if some of you think the Red Sox are not trying to win games. Do you really think these guys aren’t racking their brains trying to fix this? I seriously doubt that anyone on your team doesn’t care about winning. They want to win, but sometimes things just don’t go your way. So stick with your team, don’t give up on them. If they win, you can say you never lost faith in them. If they lose, then there’s always next year.
The Savior has come, and he is glorious. #63
+1
I can understand not wanting to have my heart ripped out, but that’s what comes with being a true, passionate fan. You live and die with your team.
If I gave up on the Yanks and they went on to win the World Series, I’d feel like the biggest douche in the galaxy.
Contributing writer for Pinstripe Alley.
I believe in the Church of Baseball.
- Annie Savoy
You go through The Sporting News for the last 100 years, and you will find two things are always true. You never have enough pitching, and nobody ever made money.
- Donald Fehr
by Frank Campagnola on Sep 28, 2011 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions
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