Daily Links - How Much (Pitching Depth) Is Enough (Pitching Depth) Edition

by Matthew Kory on Sep 23, 2011 6:00 AM EDT in Daily Links

BOSTON, MA - SEPTEMBER 21: Relief pitcher Alfredo Aceves #91 of the Boston Red Sox, who pitched the 8th and 9th innings, reacts after a 6-4 loss to the Baltimore Orioles at Fenway Park September 21, 2011 in Boston, Massachusetts. (Photo by Jim Rogash/Getty Images)

Oh blessed peace.

A full day without the Red Sox losing, ruining my evening, dunking my mood in a vat of stale urine, riling me up enough to shout obscenities at the cat, and ultimately torpedoing any hope of sleep. So yeah, a day off was kinda nice. Back at 'em today though.

Link time!

We've talked about how the Red Sox came into the year with a stacked pitching rotation. The top five guys were all expected to be league average or above, and it wasn't unheard of for someone to predict the rotation to be Boston's best in a long while. Of course, that hasn't happened. Injuries and under-performance (possibly due to injuries) have sent the Red Sox into what can fairly be called a death spiral. Still there has been an outcry from some fans and from some members of the media that the Red Sox didn't do enough to prepare for a situation such as this (I covered that a few days ago). In a nice piece of analysis, Brian MacPherson of the Providence Journal takes a look at all the specific options that were available to the Red Sox both this past off season and during the season, in order to determine the amount of culpability the team's front office should be facing. The truth is, as Mr. MacPherson states, there wasn't much more the team could have done that wouldn't have been an irresponsible expenditure of capital or roster space. Should the Red Sox have signed Cliff Lee? It would sure be nice to have him on the roster now, but there was no room for him in the rotation at the beginning of the season.

If there is one potential criticism that might stick, it's that the Red Sox lacked quality starting pitching from the upper minor leagues that could step in and throw effective innings if need be. Mike Andrews of Sox Prospects details at ESPN Boston the problems with the starting pitching in the upper levels of the Red Sox system. Just about every starter at AAA Pawtucket was a major league washout, a guy with fringe stuff who wouldn't likely survive a trip to the major leagues. In short, they were there to fill out the AAA rotation, not to help Boston at any point in the future. It isn't likely there will be much available next season either. The vast majority of the best pitching are still a few levels away. By the end of next season there may be some talent percolating to the upper minors, but it seems that if the Sox endure another season of injuries in the rotation they'll be in for a similar set of problems.

According to Hardball Talk's Craig Calcaterra, the newest column by Jason Whitlock is, "aggressively stupid, profoundly lazy and provides no insight whatsoever." I love stuff like that.

Oh hey everyone, Russell Martin hates the Red Sox. How nice. blah blah blah crap crap crap shut up.

The AL East Champion Yankees are readying for the Red Sox invasion this weekend by putting all their best pitchers ~~into the rotation~~ out to pasture. The first in that regard is C.C. Sabathia who will get the weekend off. This is good news for the Red Sox who, despite what you may have heard about Sabathia and his struggles against Boston, is still a heck of a pitcher. The less the Red Sox have to face him the better and the less the Red Sox have to face him with Tim Wakefield or John Lackey on the mound the even better. Next is Phil Hughes, who may join Sabathia in his quest to nail his butt to a couch for the weekend. The Sox are currently set to face Freddy Garcia, AJ Burnett, and Ivan Nova. Not that it's made much of a difference lately but those are pitchers the Red Sox can score against.

Finally, we all know Yankee fans would totally pee on your floor, right?

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Comments

I see we've graduated from poop jokes to pee jokes.

Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.

@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard

by Bloggy on Sep 23, 2011 7:50 AM EDT reply actions

Damn right.

Writer at Over The Monster. Follow me on Twitter! It'll be super awesome fun! @mattymatty2000

by Matthew Kory on Sep 23, 2011 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions

x

Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.

@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard

by Bloggy on Sep 23, 2011 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions

Was this rotation really stacked coming into this year?

I think the answer is that there were very good reasons to be concerned.

Beckett was coming off a terrible year (-1 war) in 2010.
Dice-K had a thorughly mediocore year in 2010 (war of 1.1), and ptiched only 12 starts in 2009.
Lackey was at best an average pitcher in 2010 (war of of1.8)
Lester was great, and while there were reasons to expect a decline by Buchholz, he had had an awesome year in 2010.

So based on 2010, the rotation had two question marks, one average pitcher (at best) and two good pitchers. There were solid reasons to be concerned about the roation at the start of the year.

That is not a “stacked” rotation. It is one that actually screamed for a backup plan.

by flasoxfan on Sep 23, 2011 7:56 AM EDT reply actions

well yes, more depth would have been good

but really, our backup plans were
a) Wake
b) Doubront
c) Miller

Certainly no front-line options, but there aren’t many teams that have frontline backups. I’m not sure I can think of anyone that got picked up by someone this offseason that would’ve made sense (it would pretty much have to be a minor league deal as our roster was full up. And nobody say Garcia because, not only was he not an exciting option, but at the beginning of the offseason, he was practically begging the Yankees to sign him)

by wolf9309 on Sep 23, 2011 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions

so really, I guess my point is,

if fault is to be found anywhere, it’s in the fact that we aren’t developing major league pitchers quickly enough. I’m not sure I believe that’s a legitimate issue or not- certainly there are a few teams that seem to consistently pump out starters, but there’s not many of them and most seem to be the result of draft picks higher than I hope the red sox ever see.

by wolf9309 on Sep 23, 2011 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions

If Backup Plan A is Wakefield,

you’re screwed.

"What's so special about Lou Gehrig? Shouldn't EVERY Yankee have a disease named after him?"

by Tessie's Dad on Sep 23, 2011 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions

I dunno, are you?

I mean, he’s a crappy pitcher at this point, but he’ll give you innings. Or at least, up until this year could. There’s just not a lot of teams out there that have enough starting pitching to be able to have a guy they legitimately WANT to throw out for 30 starts.

Probably, before Doubront showed up fat, the order was actually
Doubront
Wake
Aceves
Miller

and realistically, going into the season, it was probably
Aceves
Wake
Miller

I don’t know that there’s teams that could lose two starting pitchers for almost the whole year and still have a good starting rotation. The Phillies could.
I think it’d be perfectly acceptable to argue that the Sox should’ve picked someone else in the middle of the year.

by wolf9309 on Sep 23, 2011 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions

Yup. Fister.

I’d like to have Doug Fister right now.

Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.

@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard

by Bloggy on Sep 23, 2011 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions

It all depends on what you have to give up

Remember, the Sox had to get another team into the mix just to get Bedard. The Sox weren’t a good match with Seattle—and how much would you give up for Fister?

I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.

by Drugs Delaney on Sep 23, 2011 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions

Agreed.

And I don’t know farm systems well enough to say what to give up and if we were a potential match. But our need was definitely a reliable arm at the deadline. We didn’t get one.

Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.

@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard

by Bloggy on Sep 23, 2011 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions

Although I'm not anti-Bedard.

Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.

@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard

by Bloggy on Sep 23, 2011 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions

Bingo.

Exactly how I felt. I just couldn’t understand how people took it as a given that Buchholz would actually improve on his exceptional 2010. Lackey and Matsuzaka I expected to be questionable and/or maddeningly inconsistent. So yeah, we had 2/5 of a stacked rotation, and the team decided to bring in a shiny new LF and 1B.

"What's so special about Lou Gehrig? Shouldn't EVERY Yankee have a disease named after him?"

by Tessie's Dad on Sep 23, 2011 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions

But

A healthy rotation of Beckett, Lester, Buchholz, Lackey, and Dice-K is very good. Even if Buchholz didn’t improve, he was a very good pitcher in 2010 (his numbers this year, aside from HR, are very similar to 2010).

Look at the other contending teams: The MFY have had just 3 starts not made by Sabathia, Burnett, Colon, Garcia, Nova, or Hughes. Texas has only had 5 starts made by pitchers other than their top 5. After tonight, Detroit will have 4 starters with 30+ starts this year. TB’s rotation has been very healthy this year. In contrast, Andrew Miller, Alfredo Aceves, Kyle Weiland, and Tim Wakefield have made 43 combined starts (so far).

I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.

by Drugs Delaney on Sep 23, 2011 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions