Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: The Most Dangerous Division in Sports

A potential offseason trade

I firmly believe that the Red Sox should sell high on Will Middlebrooks. I know that he has been annointed as both our top prospect and future at 3B, but I think we should be realistic with ourselves. Kevin Youkilis is under contract through 2012 with an affordable option for 2013. There is no doubt in my mind that Youk will stay healthy and effective through 2013, after which he will only be 34, after all. Some here seem to be rushing Youk out, expecting Middlebrooks to come up sooner rather than later. If we are willing to give up Middlebrooks, we should assess what kind of return we want.


The three biggest needs are:
Pitching
SS
RH hitting OF

At short, we may or may not pick up Scutaro, but even without him, we have Aviles and Lowrie who are both passable. Iglesias and his Gold Glove D should be up mid to late 2012, and longterm, I wouldn't call the position an issue.

As for a platooning OF, guys who fit this role are a dime a dozen on the FA market. I certainly wouldn't give up Middlebrooks for an elite OF, especially with Reddick and Kalish already projecting to compete for playing time.

But pitching, pitching is never cheap on the FA market, and is much more fickle. Just look at our buddy Lackey. We are lucky enough to have a solid 1-3 and plenty of passable guys (Weiland, Tazawa, Doubront) to compete for a back end spot. Lackey is unfortunately still going to be here in 2012, so there are plenty of guys here. However, of our top 3, 2 (Beckett and Buchholz) have both struggled with injuries and inconsistency. Lackey has been consistent, consistently bad, and I wouldn't rely on our young guns to pan out into potential #2 or 3 starters. A trade in which we acquire a young, talented starting pitcher would make our rotation Phillies-like when healthy, and still top 5 in MLB with one key guy injured. Having the best offense in the game, sacrificing one piece to get an impact pitcher would make this team formidable. Here is a proposed trade that could definitely work.

Red Sox acquire Randall Delgado and Joe Leonard for Will Middlebrooks and Jeremy Hazelbaker.

Now, this may leave us without a future 3B, which is definitely a sacrifice, but our rotation would look like: Beckett, Lester, Buchholz, Delgado, Lackey. This is good because we would have strong pitchers 1-4. Also, if guys like Weiland or Doubront or even Wilson or Tazawa start tearing it up in AAA, Lackey would have some pressure put on him. If he continues to shoot the moon with his 6+ ERA, there is no reason that we wouldn't be able to push him into the pen or even cut ties with him. Additionally, we'd have the flexibility to move Miller, and one or two of the 4 aforementioned guys to the pen, bolstering our pen and preparing ourselves for the potential payroll crunch if we let Papelbon walk. THis trade would immensely boost our pitching staff for the present and future, as we could keep Lester, Delgado, and Buchholz for the next decade.

Delgado is young (21), has a low to mid 90s fastball that can get up to 97, and has two wipeout offspeed pitches in his changeup and curve. He made Keith Law's top 50 midseason and has always had more strikeouts than hits allowed. Control hasn't been too much of a problem, but command has. When he gets good downward plane on the ball, he is almost unhittable. He is a rare combination of good polish and good upside. As for Leonard, he has a prototypical third baseman's frame. He was picked in the third round, a few picks ahead of Sox prospect Sean Coyle. He has always shown good hitting for average, good discipline, but has not impressed with his power. But with his good size and batspeed, I think it will just take patience. He will start 2012 in either high A or AA.

As for what we give up, obviously the key loss would be Middlebrooks. But at third, we have Youk for 2012 and a relatively affordable option for 2013. I'm confident that he will be able to hold down fort at third for the next 2 years. If, because of decline or injury, he can't, there are other options out there. David Wright, who is under team control for another 2 years, just cleared waivers, and he is by far an above average 3rd basemen. You can then look at guys who fall under the Chase Headley category, a guy whose low-payroll team may not be able to afford locking him up longterm. Deeper in the system, Xander Boegarts and Garin Cecchini have impressed scouts, and although they are very far away, they have still been exciting. The other piece we give up, Hazelbaker, is more of a project, high upside player, but we definitely have a crowded outfield. Reddick should start for the big club in RF, but behind him, we will have Che-Hsuan Lin, Alex Hassan, and of course, Ryan Kalish.

The Braves, in my opinion, would accept this trade for a few reasons. Behind the aging Chipper Jones, they have absolutely nothing at 3B. As for pitching however, they have Tommy Hanson, Jair Jurrjens, Tim Hudson as veterans, but also a plethora of young pitching talent. Julio Teheran, Mike Minor, Delgado, and Arodys Vizcaino are all top 100 prospects, with Teheran being in many top 10 lists. They are all assets, and the Braves should likely use them to bring back some kind of return that would fill holes longterm. Middlebrooks is in the upper echelon of third base prospects. Guys in front of him include: Mike Moustakas, Brett Lawrie, and Manny Machado. Moustakas is also a consensus top 10 prospect, so you'd have to figure to get him you would have to build a package around Teheran, which I'm not sure the Braves would want to do. Machado is a top prospect on the O's, and I think he is as close to untouchable as it gets. Lawrie is certainly good, and I wouldn't doubt that AA would be willing to dangle him to get some team to way overpay as he always does. But the Braves don't have many options out there, so I think they would jump on this one.

Tell me what you guys think!

Comment 47 comments  |  0 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

I have not been given one reason to believe

that Iglesias can hit major league pitching. I’m not sure that I’ve seen any evidence that he can hit Double A pitching. I’m a little surprised people still project him as a mid-2012 roster guy. Or anything above a back-up.

Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.

@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard

by Bloggy on Sep 11, 2011 7:46 PM EDT reply actions  

I agree with this

I know his defense seems to be universally praised, but that will only get you so far. In any case, I don’t see him coming up for anything other than a September call up or maybe in case of injuries until he can manage some better offense.

by The Name is Dalton on Sep 11, 2011 8:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

He came on strong the last month at Pawtucket.

He’s 21, and last year when he was playing kids his age in Lowell, he hit well above .300. There’s no doubt that the Sox rushed him, but his D is so monumentally better than Scutaro’s that it doesn’t matter if his O is slightly worse.

Theo-trade John Lackey for a used condom and a punch in the nose. Remember, it's all about value.

by LesterJohn on Sep 11, 2011 10:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Slightly?

Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.

@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard

by Bloggy on Sep 12, 2011 8:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

To be clear

I’m not saying he won’t eventually make it to the majors, I just don’t see it next year (of course operating under the assumption Scutaro or another major leaguer is brought in.

Also, I think (personal opinion of course) that it is more than slightly worse than Marco’s.

by The Name is Dalton on Sep 12, 2011 9:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

Why not just re-sign Bedard?

He’s been good so far and there will be plenty of major league ready arms in AAA next year in the case that he does suffer injuries again. When Bedard is healthy he has shown that he is just as good as Beckett/Buchholz /Lestern.

by ritz on Sep 11, 2011 9:00 PM EDT reply actions  

I've got no problem with signing Bedard.

Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.

@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard

by Bloggy on Sep 11, 2011 9:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

I really like Bedard

but he’s 32 and coming off some major surgeries. Even if it means sacrificing talent a little I’d rather get someone like Delgado or Minor who is somewhat more of a sure thing as far as health goes, is younger, and is under control after next year.

I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.

by TheLoneDavid on Sep 11, 2011 9:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Exactly. Bedard will make less than 15 starts next year, mark my words.

Then you get Weiland or Tazawa getting the other 15 starts. The combo of the two would be significantly worse than 30 starts from Delgado. Plus, as I said, longterm, you get another upper echelon starter. You would have 3 elite starters in their 20s. That means an outstanding rotation for the next decade. If that means sacrificing having a good 3B, I’m fine with it.

Theo-trade John Lackey for a used condom and a punch in the nose. Remember, it's all about value.

by LesterJohn on Sep 11, 2011 10:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

As is David Wright.

Two good third base options there.

Theo-trade John Lackey for a used condom and a punch in the nose. Remember, it's all about value.

by LesterJohn on Sep 14, 2011 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

I am now very concerned about Youkilis' health

It’s the hernia. From what I’ve seen in others I know, and then especially Mike Cameron this year, it can take a long time to recover 100% from hernia surgery. The old hips, knees, and ankles I expect him to play through for a couple more years, but this could be different. I would definitely not count on him being productive next year. And barring a deal for a legitimate successor to Youkilis (like Headley), I would hold tight to Middlebrooks.

by steel sox on Sep 11, 2011 9:48 PM EDT reply actions  

Well you are walking a fine line. A few 15 day DL trips is fine with me,

I don’t mind having Lowrie/Aviles starting 40-60 games. Youk can keep doing what he is doing for 100-120 games, which I have no doubt he will be able to do.

Theo-trade John Lackey for a used condom and a punch in the nose. Remember, it's all about value.

by LesterJohn on Sep 11, 2011 10:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's just it: I do doubt he will be able to do what he is doing

I don’t just fear DL trips; I’m thinking year-long slump + DL trips in failed attempt to cure the slump. A player like him (an aging one, that is) coming off a hernia surgery could have a terrible season.

by steel sox on Sep 12, 2011 1:16 AM EDT up reply actions  

I agree with this

and it’s why I think moving Youkilis for someone like Minor is a smarter move than moving Middlebrooks for Delgado.

I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.

by TheLoneDavid on Sep 13, 2011 3:01 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'm just looking at practicality.

Is there any way the Braves take the aging Kevin Youkilis for a consensus top 50 prospect? I think the Braves would want the future of a position of need filled if they were to get rid of one of the “Big Four” pitching prospects.

Theo-trade John Lackey for a used condom and a punch in the nose. Remember, it's all about value.

by LesterJohn on Sep 14, 2011 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Youk is a proven superstar with a couple years left on his team friendly contract though

those don’t come on the market that often either, and he is by far a better option than the free agents available to replace Chipper Jones. I dunno, I think it could get done.

I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.

by TheLoneDavid on Sep 14, 2011 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Lawrie is certainly good, and I wouldn’t doubt that AA would be willing to dangle him to get some team to way overpay as he always does.

Don’t forget that Lawrie is also Canadian, and the Jays are owned by the country’s largest media corporation. Prying him away from Toronto would likely cost you an arm, a leg, Lester, and Pesky’s Pole to do so.

by dexfarkin on Sep 11, 2011 10:26 PM EDT reply actions  

But AA has proven that he can tear you apart in trades.

Theo-trade John Lackey for a used condom and a punch in the nose. Remember, it's all about value.

by LesterJohn on Sep 11, 2011 10:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

If Red Sox were willing to vastly overpay for Lawrie, AA would certainly make the trade. But I can’t imagine a scenario where Boston would want to do that. As for trades, the Jays are in far better position to compete and add talent for 2012 than they were at the start of the year.

by dexfarkin on Sep 11, 2011 10:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ah, but you are making sense

By my powers of deduction, I gather that you are not a Rays fan.

by steel sox on Sep 12, 2011 1:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yes, I’m not interested in trolling Red Sox sites. Frankly, you guys attack your players far more vicously than I’d ever feel comfortable with.

by dexfarkin on Sep 12, 2011 3:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

We could trade this entire team...

… for any Rays player, and I would be fine with that. Of course, Andrew Friedman would never take value for garbage – even if it’s a whole lot of garbage.

"Laser show. So relax."
The first rule of Lookout Landing is you don't talk about Lookout Landing.

by nuthinboutnuthin on Sep 12, 2011 4:02 AM EDT reply actions  

I'm not sure why

you have such confidence in Youk to stay healthy through two more years considering his style of play and the fact that he’s already having injury problems. I think he’ll contribute a lot over the next two years, but I also expect him to have plenty of down time- a guy around Middlebrooks’ age, who we can wean into the majors during those injuries is exactly what we need.

If we could get a young, very good cost-controlled starter for him, I’d say absolutely go for it, but with the understanding that we will need someone besides Youk to play third a decent amount of the time.

by wolf9309 on Sep 12, 2011 9:49 AM EDT reply actions  

we will need someone besides Youk to play third a decent amount of the time.

Lowrie? Or do we have him penciled in as the shortstop in this scenario?

Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.

@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard

by Bloggy on Sep 12, 2011 9:56 AM EDT up reply actions  

Aviles is far superior at short defensively.

Between the two, I don’t think we will have any real issues.

Theo-trade John Lackey for a used condom and a punch in the nose. Remember, it's all about value.

by LesterJohn on Sep 12, 2011 10:02 AM EDT up reply actions  

I don't know what the shortstop answer is in this scenario

I also don’t have faith in him at this point to be healthy whenever Youk is hurt in the middle of the year. More of what I meant was those times would be a great opportunity to give Middlebrooks some tastes of the majors without needing to rely on him too heavily. Basically, there is no sort of a logjam at third base, if Middlebrooks reaches the majors, he won’t be ready too long before Youk’s contract is up, and there will be no need to rush him.

I think the team is best if they can re-sign Papi for 1-2 years, and then, after 2013, offer a 1 year deal to either Youk or Papi to DH and have someone else more capable of playing a full year at third.

by wolf9309 on Sep 12, 2011 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

I probably should have made this a bit clearer,

I’m fine with Lowrie and Aviles, who are really the same player offensively, getting some time at third. My point is that just because we don’t have a bona fide heir apparent doesn’t mean we are screwed.

Theo-trade John Lackey for a used condom and a punch in the nose. Remember, it's all about value.

by LesterJohn on Sep 12, 2011 9:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

I don't think Lowrie can be a fulltime regular

Given what we know about his inability to hit right handed pitching and his injury issues, it would be foolhardy to commit to him.

by Sologub on Sep 12, 2011 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's the point, they wouldn't be regulars.

Sure, they would get a bunch of time when Youk goes on the D.L., but they would still probably play around 60 games a piece, and that includes games at SS, where we really don’t have much.

Theo-trade John Lackey for a used condom and a punch in the nose. Remember, it's all about value.

by LesterJohn on Sep 14, 2011 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Why are the Braves going to give up a stud young pitcher

For a guy with almost a 4:1 K to BB ratio for his career ? Just because the Braves might be thin at corner IF on the farm doesn’t mean they’re going to gift a Top 30 prospect for the Sox version of Brandon Laird. I think it’s a little unrealistic to think those two guys could pull in a pitcher of Delgado’s quality.

Strikeouts are boring- Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.

by CasanovaWong on Sep 12, 2011 1:43 PM EDT reply actions  

This

Never trade quality, cost controlled young pitching for an unknown commodity.

by ritz on Sep 12, 2011 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Middlebrooks is as unknown as Delgado, no?

If you throw out his 4 MLB starts, neither have been fully exposed to the bigs full-time.

Theo-trade John Lackey for a used condom and a punch in the nose. Remember, it's all about value.

by LesterJohn on Sep 14, 2011 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think...

… if the Braves are just patient, the Sox will fuck up and the Braves will end up with Ranaudo, Coyle, Barnes, Bogaerts, Middlebrooks in exchange for Chipper Jones’ old clubhouse laundry. Nothing I’ve seen recently suggests a level of competence in excess of this.

"Laser show. So relax."
The first rule of Lookout Landing is you don't talk about Lookout Landing.

by nuthinboutnuthin on Sep 12, 2011 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

yes

they certainly DO keep trading away top prospects in exchange for nothing…

by wolf9309 on Sep 12, 2011 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

I wasn't being rational...

"Laser show. So relax."
The first rule of Lookout Landing is you don't talk about Lookout Landing.

by nuthinboutnuthin on Sep 12, 2011 7:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

And I think "recently" meant "since late August"

"Laser show. So relax."
The first rule of Lookout Landing is you don't talk about Lookout Landing.

by nuthinboutnuthin on Sep 12, 2011 7:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

In case you don't know, Middlebrooks has made a few top-50 lists of his own.

Plus, the timing would be perfect. THe assumption is that Middlebrooks should be up by mid-late 2012. You figure the rotting carcass of Chipper Jones will still hold down fort for about 1/2 a year more, and then you get a seamless transition to the Middlebrooks era.

Furthermore, all of the Braves “Big Four” are MLB ready and have nothing left to prove at AAA. The Braves already have Hanson, Hudson, and Jurrjens at the MLB level, and Brandon Beachy is no slouch himself. There may only be an opening or two at the mlb level, and their pen is pretty stacked too. There’s no point turning a top-50 or top-100 guy into a reliever so he can be your 6th inning guy. You can never have enough pitching, but if you let elite pitching talent dwindle away at AAA, you aren’t winning anything.

Theo-trade John Lackey for a used condom and a punch in the nose. Remember, it's all about value.

by LesterJohn on Sep 14, 2011 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

You can have a seamless transition with Youkilis too

and I’m pretty sure Lowrie could hold on for half a season at 3B if the Sox don’t pick up Headley.

I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.

by TheLoneDavid on Sep 14, 2011 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think I have a better idea

Somehow trade Youk to another club for anything that would resemble a good pitcher.

Middlebrooks is getting close and I think we could sign a one year stopgap at the position till Middlebrooks is ready to take it over.

If we enter next year with Beckett, Lester, Buch, Bedard, anything marginally better than Lackey, I’ll be happy. I like Bedard more than Lackey, and I’d rather see that ugly mug in the bullpen till his contract expires. He could take that position from Wakefield who would retire at the end of season.

The Red Sox suck, and I am the dirt that was sucked in, I am a dirty.

by outofleftfield on Sep 13, 2011 3:32 AM EDT reply actions  

This is a good trade...

…if Randall Delgado pans out and Middlebrooks doesn’t become the next Chipper Jones. The only issue is that Delgado only has 4 games on MLB experience, and I understand that Middlebrooks has less, but what if Delgado doesn’t pan out? Many young pitchers don’t. It’d be better to get a slightly more experience pitcher from our trading partner, whomever that may be.

As for trading Middlebrooks: Seems like a reasoned decision. Youk will certainly be good for 100+ games over the next two-to-three seasons, with Lowrie as an effective back-up. Personally, I’d re-sign Scutaro at a 2-year deal and use Lowrie as back-up to both 3B and SS until Iglesias comes up to back-up/take over SS (if that ever happens). In 2014 or so, perhaps Lowrie and Iglesias take over the positions full-time, or we go out and find a semi-veteran to do so (along the lines of Lowell/Scutaro, not Lugo/Renteria).

I don’t know why the Sox traded Navarro for Aviles, considering the former is 23 years-old and the latter 30. In the field and at the plate they have almost identical stats, but Navarro has room for improvement. Aviles, maybe? But he’s 30 and he’s not signed for next season. My best guess is he’s gone after this year. This may have been a case of Theo over-thinking the situation and looking for better splits at the plate or something like that. It hasn’t panned out. Aviles seems over his head in the pressure-cooker that is Boston – what with getting picked off first repeatedly, thrown out at second to end rallies, defensive miscues, and his poor hitting…

We absolutely do NOT need another outfielder. If the Sox give any young players the opportunity to lock down a full-time position for years to come, those two players have to be Reddick and Kalish. One of them will win the job and be a solid RF for years to come. We do not need another $160 million outfielder, and we don’t need a couple of cheaper veterans fighting for a position that Reddick and Kalish can each handle. I truly hope the organization let’s those two duke it out for the spot. Then, trade whichever one doesn’t win the position or keep them on as a fourth outfielder.

And, since our starting pitching is in a bit of shambles, I’d re-sign Bedard, even if he is only good for 15-18 starts. Better than Andrew Miller and Kyle Weiland, at this point. Bedard shouldn’t be offered big money to go elsewhere, so it could be a fiscally responsible move as well.

by Wicklow on Sep 13, 2011 9:01 AM EDT reply actions  

While I would love to have Bedard in Boston next year

I think he really liked his time in Seattle, and the Mariners were really good to him. He may go back west.

I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.

by TheLoneDavid on Sep 13, 2011 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions  

He could.

Veterans, with a choice of where to play, often heavily consider two things: 1) community/organization, 2) winning a championship.

I mistakenly thought Bedard was from Western Canada, but he’s actually from Ontario, closer to Boston than Seattle. I thought he loved Seattle because it was closer to his childhood home, but it seems he simply enjoyed his time in peaceful Seattle, much like Heath Bell seems to love San Diego. Bedard has never come across as a man obsessed with winning a championship, so he may choose the comfort of Seattle over the hustle-and-bustle of Boston.

That is, if he’s given a choice. He may not receive a contract offer from either. But as I scour the market for available starters, and even possible trade partners, it seems more likely that the Sox will NEED Bedard to come back just to round out their starting rotation. Over-paying for CJ Wilson isn’t the answer. Neither are full seasons from Miller, Weiland, or, unfortunately, Wakefield.

by Wicklow on Sep 13, 2011 10:38 AM EDT reply actions  

That's why I think one of the two trades is the answer

either LesterJohn’s deal above for Delgado, or the one I’ve been floating around the last couple days of Youkilis for Minor+.

I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.

by TheLoneDavid on Sep 13, 2011 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hey

Perfect trade, I would trade everyone for the 07 redsox lol. Everything about that ballclub was great, Pap was hungry, the team was hungry, doesn’t feel like them anymore. The only failure I see for the sox was the idea onces they won, they didn’t need it anymore. Get hungry again sox thats what ya need, thats why the Rays won in 08, they wanted it more.

by Raymond Fenner on Sep 13, 2011 3:18 PM EDT reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Welcome to Over the Monster, an SB Nation community that delivers news and analysis while encouraging discussion regarding everything Boston Red Sox. OTM was founded Feb. 22, 2005.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Einstein_small
OTM Fantasy: Week 7
Einstein_small
OTM Fantasy: Week 6

Recent FanPosts

010_small
OTM Simpson Analogues
Pedroialazers2_small
The possibility of trading Kevin Youkilis
Moar_bacon_small
PSA vs. OTM Fantasy Smackdown Update
Small
The Curious Case of Daniel Nava
Rsz_ashleyspade_small
Top Red Sox Prospects
Einstein_small
OTM Fantasy: Week 5
Small
Mariano Rivera and TS Elliot and maybe Robert Frost
Small
Rivera has torn ACL

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

Yahoo_full_count

Managers

Red_seat_small Ben Buchanan

Twitter_eb_2_small Marc Normandin

Authors

Lowrie__1234972975_0178-1_small lone1c

Jddrew_small gizmosandy

Pedoria1_small Mattsullivan

Baghead-1_small Matthew Kory

Photo__2__small BrendanOToole

Cee_small Cee Angi