Na Ga Ha Pa: Crazy Matty's Trade Proposal
by Matthew Kory on Jul 25, 2011 12:23 PM EDT
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PrintThe trade deadline is a week away so let me throw something nutso crazy at you. Keep in mind I haven't read this anywhere, nobody important has mentioned this to me, indeed nobody has mentioned this to me at all. I'm making this up and I'm nobody so there is nothing whatsoever to it.
Now that we've got that out of the way, here's my proposal. The Red Sox should trade for Hanley Ramirez.
In the trade series we ran here at OTM we wrote about different players we writers want the Red Sox to acquire. The discussion focused on outfielders and pitchers. None of us mentioned shortstops I'm guessing for one good reason: there aren't any good ones rumored to be available. There haven't been any rumors that Ramirez is available, but there have been other things that lead you to believe he could be.
Of course the Red Sox should trade for Hanley Ramirez, you idiot. So should everyone. What makes you think he'd even be available?
Well, italicized voice, funny you should ask. Here are a few reasons why the Marlins might deal him.
1. The Marlins are 48-53, 16 games out of first place in the NL East. Their top starter, Josh Johnson, is on the Disabled List with shoulder problems and it's unclear when or if he'll return. In short, they're not going anywhere this season.
2. Ramirez is a career .307/.380/.508 hitter hitting .244/.336/.386 this year (though he's hitting .313/.406/.590 over the past month).
Combined the above two with this:
3. The Marlins, renowned for their penurious nature, may not want to be on the receiving end of the rest of Ramirez's $11 million salary this season. Next season his salary rises to $15 million, then $15.5 million, and $16 million over the next three seasons (2012-14). If the Marlins can avoid paying any player $46.5 million for three and a half seasons I'm guessing they will.
4. Asked if he would trade Ramirez by a local radio personality, Marlins Special Assistant Jeff Conine recently said, "probably." Conine isn't the GM but he works with the GM. This could be nothing, or it could be a shot across Ramirez's bow, a call for him to work harder. Or it could also be a sign the Marlins are open to listening for offers for the talented shortstop.
Fine. But why would the Marlins deal him now instead of waiting until the off season when the market would be more flush with prospective buyers?
Fair question. They probably shouldn't. But dealing him before the deadline would save them the balance of Ramirez's 2011 salary, roughly $5 million. Saving $5 million isn't a reason to make a deal if you're the Red Sox but if you're the $57 million payroll Marlins it could be.
OK, you're wrong about everything but suppose I grant your points anyway. Why would the Marlins deal Ramirez to the Red Sox?
The Sox have some talented young players who might or might not fit into the team's long term plans. As such a proposal based around Jose Iglesias, Ryan Lavarnway, and Ryan Kalish, although that's a lot of talent to give up might, get it done. Iglesias is no doubt incredibly talented and his defense would be plus in the big leagues now, but he'll never be half the hitter Ramirez is. If the Red Sox are convinced he'll eventually hit big league pitching then they likely won't deal him, but if there are questions then this could be a great time to trade him. What's more, if the Sox acquire Ramirez there won't be a place for Iglesias.
Lavarnway is the opposite of Iglesias. He's a wonderful hitting talent but there are real questions about whether or not he can catch in the big leagues. If he can't, which is a real possibility, there might not be a place for him in Boston as the two most likely non-catcher positions to put him, left field and first base, are filled for the next six and eight seasons. Yes, he could DH but that position is filled until further notice and I'm not sure that's his highest and best use anyway.
Kalish is talented but, well, you gotta give to get.
This deal would leave the Sox set at shortstop through 2014 at which point they'd be free to explore other alternatives. What's more, any maturity issues Ramirez has shown might be better addressed by his spending time in a veteran clubhouse and under pennant race conditions.
So that's the proposal. Iglesias, Lavarnway, and Kalish for Ramirez. What do you think? Too much to give up? Not enough?
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Couple things...
1. I’m not sure if the Sox even see Hanley as a long term SS anyway, maybe they figure he’ll be moving to 3B shortly. That would obviously displace Youk, and would also leave SS open for Iglesias anyway. Wasn’t there some mention a year or two back about possibly moving Hanley to an OF spot, sort of as a hypothetical situation?
2. Who do you replace Lavarnway with if the Marlins don’t see him as a Catcher? They don’t have a DH to put him.
by South Coast Ghost on Jul 24, 2011 5:54 PM EDT reply actions
1. The move I’d always heard for Hanley was to the outfield. I agree, he’s less than a stellar defensive shortstop, though his defensive numbers had been better the few seasons before this one.
2. If the Marlins don’t see him as a catcher then I doubt they trade for him. Either that or they could deal for him because he’s valuable and then retrade him later though they probably wouldn’t do that.
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by Matthew Kory on Jul 25, 2011 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions
His defense is not better, still below average
He is -3.3 UZR this year and -10 UZR last year.
I don't know a lot about UZR
but the things I hear over and over are this:
1. You need three years of data to make an accurate assessment
2. Catcher defense is really difficult to assess statistically at this point.
Meaning a -3.3 UZR probably doesn’t mean a whole pile. Reports are that his defense is getting better, and that he’s a hard worker and an eager learner.
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
You are correct on UZR
but SS is the hardest position to play other than catcher. It might not matter how hard you try you might just not be able to play that position. It would take another 3 years worth of data to determine if he can play the position.
I know the reports say he is a hard worker, but in my eyes he has put on weight every year he has played in the majors. That might just be his body type too though. I just don’t see him sticking at SS, but that is just my opinion.
I thought you meant Lavarnaway's UZR was -3.3.
My mistake.
I see Hanley moving to 3rd at some point, too.
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
Hard worker?
I thought the reports said he was lazy and indifferent to conditioning (matches his general bad attitude), which directly lead to his injury problems earlier this season.
Manny was one of the hardest workers there was.
His personality and the fact that he didn’t run fast gave some the impression that he too was lazy.
Twitter: @BoldandBrash
by BoldandBrash on Jul 25, 2011 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Sure, Manny at times appeared lazy on the ballfield, but I never heard accusations that he was indifferent when it came to conditioning.
Half of MLB is fat,
so I’m not sure what conditioning is or has to do with baseball. Hanley doesn’t need to go out and run miles to get in shape like other sports, and he’s not fat like Sandoval was, which hurt him. He needs hand-eye coordination to hit a ball and quick, lateral movements to play defense. Everyone needs to work on their game to improve and stay sharp, but I’m not sure that would fall under “conditioning”. He doesn’t need to be a fitness freak to be a very good player.
Twitter: @BoldandBrash
by BoldandBrash on Jul 25, 2011 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions
I can't really think of shortstops who are in worse shape than Hanley
Does Uribe still count?
Not that he’s super out of shape, but that’s definitely one of the more athletic positions
but what does worse shape mean?
Are we comparing his body fat %,long jump, his vertical leap, his 40 time,his mile run time? What constitutes an out of shape SS? He can still steal bases, so he must have some sort of athleticism. And he was never much of a defensive SS, so it’s not like all of the sudden he rapidly declined. SS is a tough position to play at the major league level, so maybe he just never had it.
Twitter: @BoldandBrash
by BoldandBrash on Jul 25, 2011 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions
not saying he was ever much better conditioned than he is now
just mainly he doesn’t look like a shortstop. He steals bases, but not terribly well. He just doesn’t move all that well. His build is probably more of a problem than his work ethic.
I'm not sure if Hanley having to move to a different position eventually
is much of a problem. If UZR is going to be used, then WAR should be used. He hasn’t posted any WAR under 4.5 except for this year (doesn’t look like he’ll get there).
His career wOBA is .386, so if he can play 3B or even RF adequately, I’ll definitely take that bat in the lineup. How many players have a career .386 wOBA?
It was a good point about his value down the road, but if the sox could actually make a deal for him, I don’t think this would hinder the deal at all.
Twitter: @BoldandBrash
by BoldandBrash on Jul 25, 2011 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Probably wouldn't hinder anything, you're right
I was referring to the “Since we’ll be trading for Hanley, we’ll have no need for Iglesias” line of thinking, since I wouldn’t be surprised if the Sox thought Hanley wouldn’t be staying at SS long at all.
by South Coast Ghost on Jul 25, 2011 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Pitching, Pitching, and Pitching.......
Sox don’t need anymore hitting, in a short series they need a great 1.2.3 punch, as of now we do not have that. Plus the Marlins will ask for the Farm for Hanley, it took Hanley just to receive Beckett a couple of years ago and he was our prized prospect. We have nothing close to what Hanley was now to give up. Pitching is the key.
by Brady's Revenge on Jul 25, 2011 12:37 PM EDT reply actions
The Sox don't need to trade for pitching
With Lester back tonight and Buchholz on his way back sometime in the not too distant future,
gotta believe the rotation will survive, even with John Lacking and a mash-up of Miller, Wakefield
and a few Triple-A guys getting their cup of coffee bringing up the back-end.
The Hanley deal looks good, assuming the Marlins don’t get too greedy. SS is a sore spot on
the team right now, and the Crawford-Ellsbury-Reddick OF looks solid for at least one or two
more years. Not to mention the fixtures at 1st, 2nd and 3rd.
They do need pitching
This rotation has dealt with injuries all year long, I don’t expect that just because they’re coming back means that they’ll be healthy the whole way, not with this medical staff (who I give more credit too than most, but somethings do appear fishy with them). We don’t get Dice-K back next year and I’m not a huge fan of extending the oldest player in baseball in Wakefield or two pitchers with not a lot of control or stuff, Aceves and Miller. Doubront I think ends up a LOOGY and I don’t really think Weiland is a starter either. We need one more starting pitcher no matter what.
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
Agreed - the Sox need pitching more than position players
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Jul 25, 2011 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Fair enogh.
What do you think they would do? Because the deal I proposed is not to dissimilar to the Beckett for Hanley deal in terms of total talent going in one direction and talent and money coming back.
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by Matthew Kory on Jul 25, 2011 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Last I checked
Anibal Sanchez was doing rather well this year and Hanley is a superstar. I think that’s rather more than Lavarnway, Kalish, and Iglesias. The odds that any of them emerge as stars are slim. I think this is an inferior offer to what we paid for Beckett. Put another way, the Marlins could get a hell of a lot more from someone else.
"You know you're having a bad day when the fifth inning rolls around and they drag the warning track." - Mike Flanagan, Baltimore Orioles pitcher, 1992.
The Marlins could get more, especially if they wait until the offseason.
After Reyes signs, teams that miss out on him would be going nuts for Hanley.
Theo-trade John Lackey for a used condom and a punch in the nose. Remember, it's all about value.
I agree.
In fact, I said it in the article. But, if they traded him now it would save them about $5 million, which isn’t chump change to the Marlins. I’m not sure if that’s enough to spur a deal on but it’s a consideration.
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by Matthew Kory on Jul 25, 2011 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions
My take:
It’s just the fact that
A) Hanley is a young superstar that they could build a team around if they want to keep him.
B) None of those players just seems to be worth a Ramirez. Igesias can’t bat in TRIPLE A at the moment, though he would be a force if he comes around. I can’t see them trading for Lavarnway. I mean, without a DH spot, it seems a bit unlikely. Kalish I could see going. He is going to be a star. Our farm ATM isn’t exactly stellar anyway.
C) (Yes, I know many of these things were mentioned before in previous comments) If they shop him in the offseason, a team that desperately needs a SS that misses out on Jose Reyes (which could even be a blessing in disguise…) would go ALL OUT trying to get him.
Just my thoughts, what do you have to say?
"Marquis Teague sucks!"
-Bryce Cotten
Not going to happen
the Marlins move into a new stadium next year, one that is supposed to end their attendance problems.
Whether the stadium WILL end their problems is anyone’s guess, but trading Hanley the year before they move into a stadium that cost the City of Miami hundreds of millions is never going to happen.
It might not, but study after study has shown winning is what brings fans out, not new stadiums and not specific players. If trading Hanley helps the Marlins win more games (down the road, obviously) then I don’t see either of those as impediments to a deal.
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by Matthew Kory on Jul 25, 2011 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions
If a new stadium
doesn’t work in Miami, baseball in both Miami and Tampa is dead.
You write:
study after study has shown winning is what brings fans out, not new stadiums and not specific players
Miami has as many WS wins as anybody since 1997 except the Yankees. Both times they won the WS attendence fell off a cliff. Winning hasn’t been enough there (nor in Tampa, but there are other reasons for that).
Frankly you are pretty disconnected from Miami (don’t mean to sound harsh, buf it’s true). There is an enourmous scandle over that stadium: the Marlins out and out lied to the city council. They claimed they were losing money to get the stadium: later their financials leaked and it turned out they were making $50 Million a year (this would up getting highlighted on HBO). Trading Hanley after all that has happened there would be a disaster for a brand that is badly tarnished despite winning two championships.
I think in the Hanely/Miami situation
the Marlins must hit while Miami is hot, bc of Lebron and the Big 3. If the Marlins can coattail the Heat, they will win big time and they need a big name that equals Lebron, Bosh and Wade. Hanely is the closest they have got.
That is not a smart statement.
Louisville basketball was supposed to be HORRIBLE last year. Before they got on a roll and started winning, the Yum! Center drew in thousands of fans. Louisville football got a stadium expansion, and look up the most increased attendance of 10-11. Okay, this had more to do with winning, but nostalgia of a new coach, a bigger and better stadium, and going in the right direction sure helped. The Marlins have that now, and it could really make some $$$ off of it.
"Marquis Teague sucks!"
-Bryce Cotten
that's not quite the same thing at all
trading away your one real superstar for guys who aren’t even going to be appearing in that brand shiny new stadium and you’ve never heard of does not really sound like going in the right direction to most of the fans who theoretically would be buying the tickets. You really can’t compare college sports to the MLB in this case.
You're hearing me wrong here.
I meant for the Marlins to KEEP Hanley.
"Marquis Teague sucks!"
-Bryce Cotten
I agree with fla up there that he won't be traded because of the new park opening
if they were to trade him, I doubt Lavarnway would be of any interest to a National League team for the same reason he’s probably blocked on the Sox if he can’t catch. I would guess something more along the lines of Iglesias, Middlebrooks, and a choice of a PTBNL of either Kalish (so they can see if he’s recovered from injury) or some pitching along the lines of Weiland/Doubront. That’s my guess anyways.
Middlebrooks would suck to lose, but Hanley is probably a year or so from being a third baseman anyways.
In any case, I’ll be surprised if Ramirez is traded this year and not next year when/if the Marlins are out of contention.
I doubt the Marlins would prefer Middlebrooks to Ranaudo.
They have Matt Dominguez, their top prospect, who is waiting in the wings to take over 3B. So then 2 of their top 5 (or even top 3) prospects would be 3B who are already in the upper minors.
Theo-trade John Lackey for a used condom and a punch in the nose. Remember, it's all about value.
I didn't mention Ranaudo
I highly doubt the Sox move him for anyone at this point in time. Middlebrooks is certainly a more valuable piece than Lavarnway, regardless of their particular needs- if both Middlebrooks and Dominguez look like they are or will have success in the majors, they’d have a huge trade piece.
I was mentioning Ranaudo becuase
I don’t think we get Hanley without a top prospect. Based on what I’ve read lately, it’s either Ranaudo or Middlebrooks. Yes, Middlebrooks is certainly more valuable than Lavarnway, but I don’t think the Marlins are close to anything. I think they will completely rebuild, and I’ve never seen a deal where a team trades a top prospect, albeit one who is close to MLB ready, to another team for a few of their prospects. Maybe I’m missing something here.
Theo-trade John Lackey for a used condom and a punch in the nose. Remember, it's all about value.
I think it’d take Ranaudo, one of Lavarnway/Middlebrooks, and Scutaro at least. You’d probably have to thrown in a low-level/high-ceiling guy as well.
"You know you're having a bad day when the fifth inning rolls around and they drag the warning track." - Mike Flanagan, Baltimore Orioles pitcher, 1992.
How's this:
Ranaudo, Boegarts, Tejeda, Kalish.
Theo-trade John Lackey for a used condom and a punch in the nose. Remember, it's all about value.
I’d say that’s a similar amount of talent. I’d be fine with that. The guy I don’t want to give up is Kalish even though I included him in my original proposal.
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by Matthew Kory on Jul 25, 2011 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions
That package that I listed would be as high as I'd go.
We’d be giving up 2 good prospects and 2 more young and promising prospects to go along with them.
Theo-trade John Lackey for a used condom and a punch in the nose. Remember, it's all about value.
You're right about Dominguez...
…though I admit to not knowing much about him. They might prefer Ranaudo and considering the long term deals the Sox are locked into in the rotation I might even prefer to trade Ranaudo over Middlebrooks.
Follow me on Twitter! It'll be super awesome fun! @mattymatty2000
by Matthew Kory on Jul 25, 2011 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions
I think pitching is a huge need for the fish. Whether we have to give up Ranaudo
will depend on the rest of our package.
Theo-trade John Lackey for a used condom and a punch in the nose. Remember, it's all about value.
How perfect is this? The curse of Hanley is solved by... Hanley?
I don’t think that the Marlins do this without getting some pitching. With the package you listed, I don’t think much needs to be added. But say the Marlins don’t want 1 of the pieces, then I think we’d have to give up Ranaudo.
If you look at the Marlins pitching: Josh Johnson is great when healthy, but rarely healthy. Anibal shows flashes of brilliance, but flashes of major struggles. Nolasco is up and down. Past that, prospect Chad James is supposed to be good, but anything can derail a prospect.
The 2 possible packages are: Iglesias, Ranaudo, Kalish, PTBNL (nobody in our top 20 prospects) OR Iglesias, Lavarnway, Kalish, Wilson.
Both seem pretty fair to me, and I’d do it in a heartbeat, although Salty is still unproven in my opinion.
Theo-trade John Lackey for a used condom and a punch in the nose. Remember, it's all about value.
That may seem steep, but Hanley was the best SS in the game.
Remember that we’d have team control at a reasonable but not bargain rate for 3.5 years.
Theo-trade John Lackey for a used condom and a punch in the nose. Remember, it's all about value.
I wouldn't want Hanley. At all.
Guy gets benched at least once a year for dogging it, not hustling, or something along those lines.
Last thing we need is another Ramirez with an inflated ego on this team. I’ll keep Jed, Scoot, and the young studs thank you very much.
It takes great work and thinking to keep from doing work.
by tito (eight and oh) on Jul 25, 2011 1:57 PM EDT reply actions
So you are willing to rely on a super-injury-prone 3B/SS tweener,
a promising, but not yet ready, SS with minimal present hitting ability, and an aging, middle of the road veteran who likely will become a free agent anyway to play SS next year?
Theo-trade John Lackey for a used condom and a punch in the nose. Remember, it's all about value.
Is this fictional and more than likely unrealistic deal our only option with regards to the future of the SS position?
Even if it is, my answer is still yes.
Give me the old guy who still plays like he doesn’t have a cool multi-million dollars in his bank account.
Give me the tweener who plays with a fire and a passion for the game that can’t be taught.
Let me keep the kid with the "Ozzie Smith’ like glove, and see what his batting can develop into.
You can have the perennial All Star that has to be reminded (AKA benched) on a yearly basis that he has teammates, fans, and an entire organization depending on him, so it’s probably in his best interest that he run out that ground ball to short, or doesn’t walk to the outfield to recover an error next time the opportunity presents itself.
It takes great work and thinking to keep from doing work.
by tito (eight and oh) on Jul 25, 2011 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm not saying that we are completely out of luck at SS, but
a perennial All Star has to be welcomed, right?
Theo-trade John Lackey for a used condom and a punch in the nose. Remember, it's all about value.
I understand why ANYONE would want him.
And I realize I’m probably in the minority for having the opinion that I do…
But I wouldn’t want him.
When an interim coach is given the reigns to make things happen for a struggling franchise, and the very first thing he does as the manager of the club is bench his best player…something is not right with that situation.
It takes great work and thinking to keep from doing work.
by tito (eight and oh) on Jul 25, 2011 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions
eh, I dunno, I think more than anything else,
that was Jack McKeon saying “I won’t take crap” than it was that Hanley did something unforgiveable.
OH, COME ON!
You’re the only reason I’m monitoring this thread.
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
Ubaldo rumors
Rangers, Tigers and us are still interested and it will take at least 3 prospects, one being a major league ready pitcher. Rockies dont really need a SS and I cannot name a major league ready arm that is high enough on the prospects list for the Rockies to bite.
but here's the thing
Neither the Rangers or the Tigers have any MLB ready arms (that I know of) that are much better than Doubront, if at all. I don’t understand why the arm has to be MLB ready. All three of those teams have top pitching prospects: Perez, Turner, Ranaudo, which all (probably with exception to Ranudo) could be breaking into the majors by mid 2012. Colorado isn’t going anywhere with or without Ubaldo, so there is no need for someone to have to instantly go into the Rockies rotation. That’s the part I don’t understand.
Twitter: @BoldandBrash
by BoldandBrash on Jul 25, 2011 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions
probably they want someone who they can pencil into the rotation for all of 2012
Who will help. If it was the Tigers, Andy Oliver is a guy that might make sense as a part of the package. The Rangers’ system I know almost nothing about.
or it could also mean
“we don’t have anyone in our minor league system we want to call up for the rest of the year. " So it’s not like the major league ready pitcher is necessarily the centerpiece. Could be (probably is) that for the Sox the asking price would start with someone like Doubront, Ranaudo, and more.
I'd assume that if the Rockies asking price is as high as it's rumored to be,
Alexi Ogando or even Neftali Feliz may be part of the deal.
Theo-trade John Lackey for a used condom and a punch in the nose. Remember, it's all about value.
well an absurd prospect cost is one thing
I thought about Ogando, but he’s pitching better than Jimenez, is cheaper, and under control for longer.
I'm really not impressed with Oliver's performance in AAA,
so I sorta “ruled him out”. I’m trying to think of guys that would actually be worthwhile for Colorado. They could pencil in a bunch of guys, but those guys might not be any good. Surprisingly I think Doubront is the best guy for the rest of this year or the start of 2012.
Twitter: @BoldandBrash
by BoldandBrash on Jul 25, 2011 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Doubront's stock has to have fallen a little this year though
He’s on the DL again, hasn’t pitched a ton this year, and may or may not have had conditioning issues going into the season. For all we know, Colorado could be really down on him going forward.
by South Coast Ghost on Jul 25, 2011 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions
that's my point
IMO, he’s the best MLB ready arm of those teams, and I’m not enthralled with him, so that says something about the situation.
Twitter: @BoldandBrash
by BoldandBrash on Jul 25, 2011 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah I don't think that Doubront being our best MLB ready pitcher is necessarily something that hurts us in the contest
I just think that he’d probably have to be the third or fourth best prospect in a package.
Apparently, I'm the disagreeable type
1) Marlins won’t trade Hanley with their new stadium open for 2012, for anything. I’d imagine the last thing they would do right now is insinuate a continuing policy of selling off talent. Maybe they’ll wait until season tickets have been sold, but not now.
2) I doubt those three are enough. The NL has no DH, Inglesias hasn’t shown he can hit, and Kalish has a nice floor, but limited ceiling. Unless Florida would be ok with quantity over quality, I don’t think this organization even has enough talent to get a Hanley deal done. But even if they did, Middlebrooks and Renaudo would headline, assuming Buchholz is going nowhere.
3) At 3B, sure, but Hanley’s no SS. He is a poor defender there. This offense is potent enough not to go downgrading the defense for even more of it. I’d actually rather give Inglesias’ noodle bat a shot next year.
4) Why Hanley when Drew is certainly available for less? All we need is for his brother to wax poetic about this reasonable fanbase and he’s as good as here. Oh, wait…
I agree with your main points, except
-it’s IGLESIAS, no n involved
-Also, it’s Ranaudo
-no one in their right mind would reasonably rather have Iglesias than Hanley at shortstop, I don’t care how bad his defense is.
-There’s no chance that Drew is available to anyone right now, Arizona is actually a legit contender at the moment
And didn't S. Drew damage his ankle or something?
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
Why does everyone assume Florida would settle for only prospects?
If I were them my demand starts with Buchholz, Middlebrooks and Iglesias.
Hanley would also lose a good chunk of his value by being moved off SS as by any defensive measure he is atrocious there. If you don’t like UZR he is -53 runs career by Defensive Runs Saved and -22 by Total Zone. If his defense doesn’t improve to at least league average at an OF position, he is not worth the players you would give up. If you are paying 15.5M for an OF that’s a horrible defender, he better hit like Godzilla. Hanley’s bat is good, but not THAT good. You also can’t simply assume he reverts back to his 2007-09 level of offense, given how the ISO has dropped 3 years in a row, not to mention the questions on conditioning, makeup, etc. He should be peaking in his age 26 and 27 seasons this year and last year, not stagnating and collapsing respectively. When is the last time a player of his star caliber, with so much raw talent who put up such a high bar of performance in his early-mid 20’s, went backwards this early in his career? Whatever the cause it’s a red flag imo.
tl;dr: Marginal gain in value from Hanley in OF < Cost to acquire.
because their method of operating
involves having players for their first 4-5 cheap major league seasons, then trading them off for prospects they can control cheap for 4-5 years when they get expensive.
Then it may be worth pointing out
That Iglesias will not be cheap, as his deal pays him more than 2 million a year. Not a lot, but not the minimum either.
well
$6 million of that was a signing bonus, which presumably was paid in full already, so he’s only making $562,500 a year, close to minimum. Luxury tax calculations aren’t relevant for a team like the fishies like they are for Boston.
On a related note though, it seems that no one remembers, but when the Red Sox first signed Iglesias, the general reaction around baseball was less of “damn! The Sox got him!” than it was “DAMN! They’re paying him THAT much??”
They pretty much seemed to value him higher than anyone else at the time. I don’t think his stock has risen considerably since then, try as the Sox media might. I really don’t see him as a terribly valuable trade chip until he starts hitting on some level or other. Not hitting bombs left and right, just hitting at least .270-.280 with at least the occasional double and at least, say, a walk every couple of weeks. Pretty reasonable.
I read it at Cot's
And I thought he was paid 8.25 million or so over 4 years, and in addition to that he got a 6 million bonus.
oh no, the way they say that can be a little confusing
the number at top is the full contract value, including the signing bonus
It would be tough.
Assuming we give up at least 3 feature prospects, that means that in the past year we’ve given up 6. Then our farm would really be hurting, but you would have youth and team control at nearly every position
Theo-trade John Lackey for a used condom and a punch in the nose. Remember, it's all about value.
We're more likely to acquire Reyes than Hanley, and I hope we get neither.
I want a pitcher.
Nothing else. If we need offense get a right handed hitting outfielder.
Nothing else.
The Red Sox suck, and I am the dirt that was sucked in, I am a dirty.
Option E) I don't want him because he's a flash in the pan.
I don’t think he’ll be a SS in 4 years, and the way his bat is going, he may not hit well enough to play 3rd, let alone 1st. I’ll stick with Navarro and Lowrie for now, thanks.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
Hanley doesn’t play good D in the first place and he is getting old.. His stats have been on the steady decline these past few years
by westcoastredsox on Jul 26, 2011 3:53 AM EDT reply actions
"getting old"
come on man, he’s 27. He becomes a free agent when he’s 30. He looks to have finally jumped out of his early season struggles- incidentally when McKeon came over. Now I know he’s a problem child, but problem children are one of the things that Tito is so very good at dealing with. Of course they won’t be trading him now, regardless.
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