Does Jed Lowrie's Success make Jose Iglesias expendable
Someone over at mlbrumors suggested that with Lowrie's excellent play this season the Sox could move Jose Iglesias for a young arm or catching prospect. The assumption is that Lowrie will be the regular SS for the future and that many teams would pay a pretty fine price to get him.
This is the first I have ever heard of the Sox looking to move the young cuban SS, does this make sense? I really would like to know what people who have more understanding of the Sox farm system think about this rumor.
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This is a hard thing to determine...
With Lowrie hardened and major leajue proven, it blocks Iglesias’ path to the majors, so I am in favor of trading Iglesias to another club that could give him a shot at the majors, but we know what happened with Hanley, we trade him and he becomes a superstar. It’s hard really to say whether or not to keep him.
Wittkowski
I hate the term "proven"
Lowrie has played 211 major league games, not even a season and a half. I don’t think anyone really knows what to expect from Lowrie. He was a good minor league hitter for a middle IF and he’s versatile. Those are good things.
The Sox have played 50 games, roughly a third of the season. Right now, Lowrie is a 0.6 WAR SS (not the best and not the worst—both offensively and defensively). He’s on pace to be worth about 2 WAR. Last year, Scutaro was a 2.5 WAR player.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on May 26, 2011 10:29 PM EDT up reply actions
+1
Lowrie has played well over the course of 2 seasons and 4 months but I don’t think that neccessarily constitutes him being proven. Unless you are blown away by an offer, hold onto Iglesias and let him work with the stick at AAA this year. You can always trade one or the other in 2012 or 2013. Another option is to slide Lowrie to 3B in 2012 and Youk to 1B/3B/DH. However, Iglesias trade talk is premature at this point IMHO.
Not so fast
I was big on Lowrie and was afraid they would trade him. Now, with the long slump he is in you have to wonder. Is Scutaro a better player at SS?. The only way to be sure is to give Lowrie 500 AB’s and see what happens.
I think you've misunderstood what I said
I was merely responding to witt-K’s use of the word “proven” with regard to Jed Lowrie. I like Lowrie. But, aside from the fact that he has been great in stretches and has good minor league numbers, we really don’t know what to expect. At worst, Lowrie is a usefully utility player who hits lefties well. Chances are, he’ll be a decent to good everyday player with average defense at three positions. At best, he’ll be an .820-.850 OPS hitter with slightly above average defense at SS, making him one of the better SS in baseball.
All I was showing is that so far, Lowrie this year hasn’t been much better than Scutaro last year. Lowrie has never played a full season, and both his highs and lows are small samples. However, Lowrie does have far more upside than Scutaro and should play SS until he proves that he isn’t better than Scutaro. One thing is certain, though. The way Lowrie hits lefties makes him valuable on this Sox team.
As for Iglesias, who knows? He may end up being the next Omar Vizquel or the next Rey Ordonez.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on May 27, 2011 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions
this
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by Marisa Ingemi on May 26, 2011 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybe at defense
but he’s in the top third offensively right now
Twitter: @BoldandBrash
by BoldandBrash on May 27, 2011 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Absolutely!
I love Jed the hitter. He’s superior to both Scutaro and Iglesias (thus far). But as a middle infielder, defense is of the utmost importance. His hitting was really needed at the beginning of the season, but now that A-Gon, Youk, Ells & Crawford have rediscovered their offense, that is less of a priority.
I am not as impressed with Jed’s defense. With the management’s focus on defense up the middle, I don’t think they’d trade Iglesias unless he turned into a .220 singles hitter. His average is higher, but he needs to develop some power. Fortunately, the kid is just that- still a kid and should gain power.
Interesting to see Lowrie’s HR’s drop from last year. But I’m quite happy with his offensive production so far.
simul justus et peccator
We have no idea if Iglesias can swing an MLB bat.
We have no idea if he can swing a minor league one, from what I’m told.
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
Can't do that
Lowrie at least has some numbers in the bigs. Iglesius has proven nothing.You could get more for Lowrie, if that is your premise,but lets see what Lowrie can do over a full season. If you could get SD to trade one or two of those good young relievers, then I might consider it.
I definitely wouldn't trade for
Twitter: @BoldandBrash
by BoldandBrash on May 27, 2011 11:15 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I definitely wouldn't trade for relievers.
They weren’t good as atarters, so they’re in the pen and are unpredictable. As soon as they come here, they’ll probably implode. I wouldn’t spend big money or top-prospects on relievers, unless it’s on an established “closer” and my team doesn’t or is about to not have one.
Benoit, Jenks, and Soriano all sucked so badly that they had to put them on the DL(don’t know if Benoit went to the DL or not).
Twitter: @BoldandBrash
by BoldandBrash on May 27, 2011 11:20 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
+1
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on May 27, 2011 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions
No who would?
If the Sox are gonna move Iglesias, I would hope Theo is smart enough to get a young arm who is projected to be a starter. I mean young SSs have to be one of the most difficult players for an organization to obtain and worth A LOT.
The guy several comments above would.
Twitter: @BoldandBrash
by BoldandBrash on May 27, 2011 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, Eric Gagne says trading for relievers can really blow up in your face.
We trade a SS for a C or a 3B or nothing I think.
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
Agreed.
Until Iglesias proves he can hit even Triple-AAA level pitching I don’t think he makes any starter on this team expendable. He does have great value in how good his glove is and he still has time to learn how to hit higher level pitching.
Would I trade Jose if the offer was right? Probably if Navarro gets a shot to come up and impresses. I still like the idea (if he continues his performance) of Navarro coming up and playing SS (or 3B) and Lowrie playing the other position with Youk going to DH next year.
by The Name is Dalton on May 26, 2011 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't understand how many Sox fans can so easily write off Big Papi
I mean, if his production was suffering like Jeter/Posada, sure, let him go and sentiment be damned. But he is thriving. Coming into the season he had two glaring weaknesses as a DH: poor splits against lefties, chiefly, and two slow Aprils in a row. Both problems seem fixed now. He is seeing the ball better, using the opposite field, and watching Gonzo’s at-bats two slots in front of him prepares him really well for pitching match-ups. I really, really hope Youk’s defense can hold up for 1-2 more years to preserve a roster spot for David Ortiz. In this scenario Lowrie becomes the odd man out because he is probably the worst shortstop in the AL. My hopes are for Navarro or Iglesias.
Jose might end up having the worst bat at short in the AL as it stands now. Navarro, if what he’s showing us is real, has the ability to be Jose and Jed combined into one unstoppable machine. But I’m not particularly worried about Jed’s defense going forward, he’s had a couple flubs but I don’t think it’s been taking away from the team much, just like Youk’s. I think Jed would actually be a better 3B, but keeping Papi would preclude that from being an option.
In terms of defense stats, his few innings at the position is hardly enough to make any judgement, one big error this early in the season will throw those numbers off a lot, I think by the end of the year he’ll work out to roughly average.
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
I’m less concerned with Lowrie’s flubs and errors, which are subject to slumping and more easily rectified, than with his range, footwork, release—his basic toolset as a shortstop. It may be that he’s just more suited to a different position. But I think he has yet to show that his bat can be consistent enough to take a position such as third, where he would basically have to replace the production of Ortiz. His wOBA this month is .285; I did not think his .411 mark last month would be sustained, but that’s a bad drop. Without confidence in either his glove at short or his bat at third, I just do not see a future for Jed Lowrie on the Red Sox. But I’m not making any decisions yet. He’s the shortstop of the present, and we’ll see where his bat and glove end up.
My money is on his long term production being closer to his April numbers than his May numbers
Mainly because his April numbers more closely reflect the sort of production we’ve seen out of him last year and before his injury. I don’t think he’ll ever replicate his April numbers long term, but I don’t think he’s this bad either. This seems more like a slump than a representation of his true ability.
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
Last year the Sox spotted Lowrie, playing him mostly against lefties
2010: 197 PA – 116 v. LHP 81 v. RHP
2001: 166 PA – 54 v. LHP 112 v. RHP
Both years are small samples. But over his (short) career, Lowrie has hit lefties much better than righties:
v. RHP (494 PA) .218 AVG/.300 OBP/.351 SLG (.651 OPS)
v. LHP (251 PA) .351 AVG/.412 OBP/.581 SLG (.993 OPS)
I am aware that these, too, are small samples and that they include his rookie year (when he played with a wrist injury). I am also aware that Lowrie didn’t have bad platoon splits as a minor leaguer. However, we do not know how the injury affected Lowrie’s ability as a left-handed hitter. So far this year, he has a .601 OPS v. RHP and a 1.156 OPS v. LHP. It may be that Lowrie is merely slumping, as you suggest. But it’s also possible that his numbers are declining because he is facing more righties. Time will tell.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on May 27, 2011 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions
it's true that the injury may have affected him long-term in some way
I think it’s too early to declare him a long term savior but much too early to be planning on getting him out of the lineup.
Agreed
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on May 27, 2011 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Keep the faith
in the Jedi. Tito and Gammons both made it clear that the nature of his injury impacted his ability to hit righties, and noted improvement in April. Remy confirmed this and also discussed how tough it will be going from super-utility guy to showcasing at SS. He needs the same consistency that Youk is getting at 3b over time, and to regain his splits vs. Righties. With several good options in the minors, the availability of Scutaro through 2012, and Lowrie looking over his back every day, I’m hoping the Sox give him all the time he needs to win the position. We all knew his offense would regress to something in the neighborhood of PD & Ells, which is happening. He is very steady on routine plays and has also made some really tough ones. This, plus his bat IMO gives us a very good SS. The rest is fantasy at this point.
Lowrie
I think we have a big enough sample by now to conclude that Jed is worth keeping if only to hit against LHders. With the proliferation of good young LH pitching in the division,he is valuble. If Papi does leave, Jed would be an ideal partner to DH along with another good LH bat .If Papi stays, he represents a good backup to Youk who is starting to show signs of wear. Add in that he can play multiple positions and has a low salary,make it seem foolish to trade him. Maybe he should try batting RH against all pitching. it couldn’t be much worse then the way he hits righties now.
I like Papi and wouldn't mind seeing another season of this...
…so I suppose it should’ve been “next year or the year after”, especially if he continues to whoop arse like he is this year. I just don’t know if Youk’s defense can hold up at 3rd. Youk’s a competitor so he’ll give it 110% out there, which is more than you can say about some in the league. I don’t expect his defense to be at the top of the league at 3b but it won’t be at the bottom either, and his bat will make up for alot.
If Navarro can play decent defense than I would like to see Navarro be SS in the future, with Iglesias continuing to be a project. I think Navarro plays some 3B too so if Iglesias learns how to hit at all than maybe they are the left side of the infield a couple years from now and Lowrie is traded. There are some options right now and in the next year or two, which is a good problem to have.
by The Name is Dalton on May 27, 2011 8:54 AM EDT up reply actions
Ortiz Defies Time
I was at the front of the line,wanting Ortiz gone, but what he has done this season is remarkable. Still, I hope they dont get gooey and offer him an extension for more then he is worth. It is a long season.
I would offer him a 1 year deal ONLY.
I would not go to 2 years. I would rather not have him for 2012 then to have him deteriorating in 2013.
that’s the perfect situation, IMO, play Youk at 3B one more year, have Igleasias as the starting SS and groom Navarro as the Utility. As much as it hurts me to say it, trade Lowrie. His bat is special as a SS, but he’s not a good enough SS defensively. As a 3B, his bat is average.
Middlebrooks could be ready for 3B by 2013 as well.
Even if Lowrie is a weak shortstop defensively
The combination of slightly below-average defense with well-above-average offense makes him a valuable player. In addition, even if he doesn’t stick as a starter, his versatility makes him valuable to the Sox.
Until Iglesias proves he can swing a bat at the AAA level, let alone the major league level, Lowrie’s position should be secure. Right now, exchanging Iglesias’s bat for Lowrie’s glove is probably a net loss for the Sox.
Fenway: "An alternate and better universe, disguised as a ballpark." --Thomas Boswell
I think it makes him tradeable
but I don’t know if expendable is the right word. As has been said, Navarro could also have a big influence on this.
Like Bob said, Navarro for sure makes one of Lowrie/Iglesias expendable.
Lowrie is 7th among SS in OPS. He’s below average defensively, but if he keeps hitting like he is, then he’ll be fine, just not a star or anything. If both Lowrie and Iglesias would get the same return, I’d trade Iglesias because he isn’t an established MLB player and if his bat doesn’t come around, he might never get there. However, the SS position is probably Navarro’s to take. He’ll be above average defensively and doesn’t have a weak bat, but it may not be good either. I hope he continues to excel in AAA and if he does, than I’m hoping he could put up an OPS of .800 or close to it. If he could do that, then he would be very valuable.
Twitter: @BoldandBrash
Navarro for sure, makes Lowrie expendable.
Hold on. Navarro is no sure thing, either.
He is but he isn't.
SS as a position has no depth a hitting, so Navarro could definitely make it without being a good hitter ( as compared to all players). He’s put up decent hitting numbers in the miles and was tearing it up in AAA before he got hurt. So, we may not know his ceiling is or if he’ll ever reach it, but we do have a good grasp of his floor, which could probably make him a league average SS right now.
Twitter: @BoldandBrash
by BoldandBrash on May 27, 2011 10:51 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Yes I would trade him
Iglesias hasnt shown success with the bat and has an Alex Gonzalez ceiling, with better defense. Lowrie’s offense and adequet Defense would be more valuable than Iglesias stellar D and Black hole offense.
But, however, make sure we get a GOOD, solid, proven player that we NEED in return, dont just trade him for the hell of it.
"I don't put any foreign substances on the baseball. Everything I use is from the good old U.S.A."
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by Dustin's #1 Fan on May 27, 2011 12:04 AM EDT reply actions
I don't think anyone's suggesting we trade him for the hell of it
But if we can get someone like Miguel Montero for Iglesias then that’s a trade that we should make.
DFA Rev Halofan
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
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by TheLoneDavid on May 27, 2011 12:15 AM EDT up reply actions
Who are you?
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
Someone who realizes that the Cubs don't want Iglesias.
DFA Rev Halofan
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
Official Baker of Red Sox Nation
Fear the Roar.
by TheLoneDavid on May 27, 2011 1:18 AM EDT up reply actions
Iglesias is 21
Is there anyone younger than Iglesias on the Pawtucket roster? I offer 5 sets of numbers for you:
.241/.321/.319
.233/.299/.300
.273/.338/.354
.275/.315/.335
.223/.259/.223
?
The first three involve Omar Vizquel, his career minor league numbers, his major league numbers and what he put up as a 23 year old in limited AAA duty. The next two are Iglesias’ career minor numbers and what he has put up as a 21 YEAR OLD in limited AAA duty this year.
By no means am I saying that Iglesias will hit like Vizquel in the majors, approaching a .400 OBP with 40 steals. However, Vizquel has shown that a poor AAA batting average isn’t a death sentence. Couple that with he is only 21, I’m willing to give him a free pass for 2011.
Those numbers aren't in order
.273/.338/.354 is his major league line for sure.
The real issue is that Iglesias shouldn’t be in AAA this year. Injury or not, he never showed he could handle AA pitching. Now he’s showing he can’t handle AAA pitching. Progression is nice and all but promotions need to be merit based, he can work on his defense at any level, but hitting needs to be taken one step at a time. Keeping him in Pawtucket I think will only further frustrate him.
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
I'm willing to give him some time too
And I agree completely with Rogue that Jose could’ve used another season or at least a half season in Portland. I know batters slump at all levels, but Iglesias is 2 for his last 25 with 2 BB and 1 run scored in the last 7 games. His OPS is only .471 over 31 of the teams 46 games so it’s not like he is taking walks, only 4 on the season. I don’t think putting him up in Pawtucket at this stage was a wise idea.
I know his strength is his glove and his hitting should improve, or at least I really hope it does. Like you said, he is only 21 so they can afford to let him work in the minors for this year, next year and even part of 2013 if needed. Navarro (if he keeps it up) and Lowrie would be good enough options in the short term. Although, if a team came forward with a decent young catcher and wanted Iglesias in a package deal, I think they would definately consider it.
by The Name is Dalton on May 27, 2011 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Plus
It’s not like money is behind all the decisions with the Red Sox brass…but seeing as Jose got a $6 million signing bonus I would think the Red Sox will wait a while before doing too much with him. Until either he is ready to contribute at the MLB level or his trade value is high enough to get something good back. He’s young, so they have time.
by The Name is Dalton on May 27, 2011 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions

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