Future Roster Construction
by magicbosox on Mar 17, 2011 7:13 PM EDT
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PrintAs the first few rounds of cuts go down in Red Sox camp, many exciting names have and will be sent packing.
What are the future plans for these players? Some have a clear path to the majors. Some are blocked but we have good faith they will be successful. And a third group will have to fight for the right to call themselves big leaguers.
1. Clear Path:
OF Ryan Kalish - Widely seen as the heir to right field, could end up in center if Theo and company decide Ellsbury's skills are redundant now they they have Crawford and decide to make a move. Probably won't be the first called up if someone is has a minor injury. Will be first called up if someone goes down long-term (see: Drew, J.D. and Ellsbury, Jacoby).
SS Jose Iglesias - The defense is stout. The offense is coming along (if this year's spring training is any indication). Terry Francona said he thought the youngster was pushing too hard. Good thing for him, the way the team is built for the foreseeable future allows for it's shortstop to be a light hitter. Marco Scutaro is gone after this year and what and who Jed Lowrie is is still in flux. He should solve the revolving door at the 6.
2. Blocked, but high upside
LHP Felix Doubront - The word "prized" gets thrown around a lot about this lefty. Theo thinks he is a Major League reliever in 2011, or a Major League starter in 2012 and beyond. With the rotation locked in for both this year and next year contractually, Doubront will have to prove Dice-K is truely expendable (or worth giving up on) or he'll have to be flexible. Either way, he'll be in the majors in 2012 barring major injury or complete failure.
RHP Alfredo Aceves - Always liked him, even as a Yankee. Seems to be a diamond in the rough as far as signing an injury project. Should see time in some form in 2011 and could hook on for beyond with good MLB success.
RHP Andrew Miller - Low-risk, high reward. It's become cliche but Theo may have done well here. There is rush as they got him on a minor league deal. This figures to be another Aceves-type call-up. If we see Miller have a good April and May, you can expect him to see Fenway in June and July.
LHP Rich HIll - His new motion has given him 7.0 innings of no-run baseball in the spring. It has been said he needs more time to become consistent, but he is exactly what the teams needs moving forward as both depth and a specialist.
C Mark Wagner and C Luis Exposito- Depending on what happens to the Salty/Varitek combo in 2011, this is an intriguing pair for the future. If all goes well, Salty makes both of these guys solid trade chips. The depth at catcher in the lower levels makes them good insurance as the bridge if Salty falters. If Varitek retires (not planned) or Salty hits .200 (hey, it could happen) then these two could fight for one or both slots in 2012 as Wagner is the defensive minded receiver and Expo is the slugger. They both fall into this category because they are still on pace to debut in their respective timelines.
3. Fighting for a Spot
RHP Michael Bowden - This would feel really good for Sox fans if Bowden panned out. He's been inconsistent in the MLB but effective in the minors. If he still has his tail, it's time to work it off.
OF Josh Reddick - See above. Reddick needs to take a walk and figure out his slumps to become anything more than a bench player.
OF Daniel Nava - Similar to Reddick, but Nava has been nothing but positive both every team he has played for. With the outfield stacked around him at both levels, expect either a brief callup to fill an injury or a trade down the road.
OF - Juan Carlos Lineres - Francoa loves him. He has come on as of late and could see time in the Boston OF in 2011. 2012 is more realistic but don't forget about him.
SP Junichi Tazawa - Injuries hurt, but you have to battle back. Still waiting on the rebound to see if he'll end up like Kei Igawa and Dice-K.
See too: Lars Anderson and Yaminico Navarro
Thoughts?
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I know everybody wants to anoint Iglesias as the new Red Sox SS forever and always
But if Lowrie puts up the numbers we saw in ‘08 before he got hurt and the second half of ’10, even with some regression, then I don’t want to move him anywhere. Shortstops who OPS in the ,850+ range are really hard to come by, and unless Tito is set on moving Young Skywalker to third base to bring up Jose, I’d rather have the proven guy at 6 than someone who hasn’t proven he could hit above AA. If Youkilis gets shifted to DH and Lowrie moves to third, then that’s fantastic, we’d have the best defensive infield in the game, but if Youk doesn’t go to DH, then Iglesias has to sit in the minors until after 2013, when Youk becomes a free agent. I don’t want to give up that big bat in the middle.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
Official Baker of Red Sox Nation
This
I think given his absence it’s easy to forget that a couple years ago, Jedi was Jose Iglesias, the guy everyone had pegged to ease the suffering at short stop. He’s still here, and if he stays at short and plays as well as he’s shown he has, I’m not sure it would be so easy to justify replacing him. It’s like if Coyle over the next year or two begins to really shine, are we going to bench Pedey? Probably not.
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
I do think this is the most likely scenario
Papi isn’t resigned after this year, if Lowrie has proven himself and Youkilis struggles defensively at third, Lowrie could move as soon as 2012 and Youk or A-Gon to DH. Alternatively, Lowrie could be the starting shortstop in 2012 and give Iglesias one more year in the minors.
Of course it’s impossible to predict the struggles, successes, breakouts, etc. that will come this year, much less one or two years down the road, but for now that’s what I’d bank on.
It will probably work itself out
In a year or so…
Ortiz will not be brought back so Youk/Gonzo rotate between DH/1B
Lowrie slides into 3B
Iglesias moves into the SS slot
Bob’s your uncle
I could see a 2012 roster like the following
C – Saltalamacchia
1B – Gonzalez
2B – Pedroia
3B – Lowrie
SS – Iglesias
LF – Crawford
CF – Ellsbury
RF – Kalish
DH – Youkilis
BC – Wagner
MI – Navarro
OF – Reddick
SP – Lester
SP – Buchholz
SP – Lackey
SP – Beckett
SP – Doubront/Aceves/Miller
CL – Bard
RP – Jenks
RP – Wheeler
RP – Aceves/Miller
RP – Hill
by BobZupcic on Mar 18, 2011 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Rather than shift Youk to DH, shift Gonzo and move Youk back to 1B
I know Gonzo is pretty good, but Youk is the better defender at 1B. Or, if you want to keep them both rested, let Youk play 100 games at 1B and DH the rest of the time, with Gonzo as the regular DH and 1B when Youk is DH.
Then the only problem becomes interleague play, where presumably you’d want to send Youk back to third, shift Lowrie to short, and have Iglesias on the bench.
Youk doesn't like moving back and forth across the field
Better to keep Lowrie at third all the time and have Youk and Gonzo trade off.
A DH rotation
Has always been a good idea, because it allows for a deeper bench. With Ortiz gone next season, you simply add a position player an call it good.
Definitely a plus...
… to have a DH that can handle a glove as well.
I love Big Papi, and his defense at 1B is a little underrated (he’s better than people think), but not the same as being able to give guys a day off in the field at DH and slide your DH back onto the field.
He's a virtual lock to be the starting SS by no later than 2013
Jed will likely be a 3B. If he hits like we think he will he’ll have plenty of bat for 3B and we get to go back to plus defenders all over the infield.
Theo and Tito
They seem to REALLY want Lowrie as a super sub. Yeah he profiles better as a pure SS or 3B, but why would they push this so hard if he was potentially the starter for the next few seasons? Obviously they won’t peg him as that now, but using Scuatro to back up the infield makes more sense, assuming Jed still learns 1B to compensate.
I think with time this year
He’s going to be too valuable to use as a supersub. It’s really baffling why he hasn’t been announced as starter. His floor is roughly Scutaro and is ceiling is much more. Both can play the same positions, it seems to be a no-brainer. I think for now, it’s just them keeping value for Scutaro and keeping him happy in the club house. I wouldn’t be surprised to see Lowrie start getting full time at short not long into the season if her performs like he did last year.
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
You may be right
I still wonder if those rumors about possibly trading Scutaro were accurate, regardless of what the front office says. If the Sox start slow again like they did last year, maybe he ends up as part of a trade package. By pretending he’s the greatest shortstop since Nomar even though there’s a better option already on the roster, maybe they drive up his trade value a bit for some team that isn’t paying attention too closely.
I think there is more truth to them than Theo will admit
This team has a lot of depth, already on the roster and in Pawtucket. Cameron, Scoot and Wakefield all have depth behind them that could be very good. If they determine that Navarro, Aceves or Kalish can perform the backup role well any could be gone.
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
I agree about Wake and Scoot
I think having Cameron able to provide excellent defense while being a right handed bat that destroys lefties is one of the key things that makes this look like a really viable championship team. Without him there, they have a glaring weakness, with him there the only weakness is potential for underperforming expectations.
Tito seems to
But remember, Theo was the one who called into question Tito’s remarks that there wasn’t a SS competition of any sort.
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by Ben Buchanan on Mar 19, 2011 11:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Also worth mentioning
Ryan Lavarnway.
Mark Wagner hasn’t seemed to figure out AAA pitching yet at 26 and looking at his game totals for his last… career, he doesn’t seem to be reliably healthy either. 40 games in 2010, 85 in 2009, 94 in 2008, 95 in 2007, 113 in 2006.
Exposito doesn’t appear to have the patience neccessary to be a great hitting catcher. He may be a slugging catcher, but not a good hitting one. I’m thinking more the John Buck to our Victor Martinez. He might mash 10-15 HRs a year, but do it with a .300 OBP.
Lavarnway’s defense is lagging, but they seem to be a little more positive about it. But that’s not why we want Lavarnway as our catcher of the future. We want him because he’s a great hitter. He’s hit 43 HRs combined the last 2 seasons and backs it up with an OBP somewhere over .370 and over three different levels after his injury. That sort of production at catcher you have to pay attention to. Even if his defense is bad, his bat would keep him around, much like Victor Martinez. I really think this kid is going to be good.
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
So you trade for Soto, have one of them catch and the other DH
Genius!
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
Official Baker of Red Sox Nation
by TheLoneDavid on Mar 19, 2011 12:28 AM EDT up reply actions
Swing and a miss by Rogue on that. I'll fix it for myself.
Also worth mentioning
Ryan Lavarnway.
Mark Wagner hasn’t seemed to figure out AAA pitching yet at 26 and looking at his game totals for his last… career, he doesn’t seem to be reliably healthy either. 40 games in 2010, 85 in 2009, 94 in 2008, 95 in 2007, 113 in 2006.
Exposito doesn’t appear to have the patience neccessary to be a great hitting catcher. He may be a slugging catcher, but not a good hitting one. I’m thinking more the John Buck to our Victor Martinez. He might mash 10-15 HRs a year, but do it with a .300 OBP.
Lavarnway’s defense is lagging, but they seem to be a little more positive about it. But that’s not why we want Lavarnway as our catcher of the future. We want him because he’s a great hitter. He’s hit 43 HRs combined the last 2 seasons and backs it up with an OBP somewhere over .370 and over three different levels after his injury. That sort of production at catcher you have to pay attention to. Even if his defense is bad, his bat would keep him around, much like Victor Martinez. I really think this kid is going to be good.
Trade for Soto.
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
My two cents
Kalish – I think he is the only one that truly has a clear path. I think his future is in RF. I don’t buy into the CF theory for two reasons. First, trading Ellsbury creates a void (unless you trade for a RF). Second, Kalish has good, but not great range, which plays much better in Fenway’s spacious RF.
Iglesias – I’m a big Jose fan Lowrie has something to say about it. I’m not a big fan of moving Lowrie to 3B unless you feel his glove hurts you too much at SS. His bat obviously plays much better at SS than the hot corner.
Doubront – If not traded, I think he’s paired with Miller as the two power lefties out of the pen in 2012.
Aceves – I don’t see how a healthy Aceves wouldn’t have a spot on this staff as a 5th/6th starter and/or long man in 2012.
Hill – I think he could have a place in 2011 but they won’t carry 3 lefties if Doubront and Miller are already in house.
Wagner/Expo – unless they make a trade, one will be the 2012 backup, the other the AAA taxi.
Bowden – I think he’s toast and is gone after this season.
Reddick/Lineres – I think Reddick will likely be traded. If not and they don’t bring in a vet in 2012 I think two of Reddick, Lineres and LIn will battle it out for the 4th and 5th outfield spots. Nava is a great story but I don’t see him having a role on this team now or in the future.
Tazawa – I had great hopes that he would be the next great Japanese import but unless he returns strong from TJ surgery, I don’t see him having a long term role with the team.
IMO
Kalish- Will be with the club next year as the RF. It seems to work out perfectly since Drew will be gone. I agree with mg, that I dont see CF being his spot. Ellsbury is the CF until his contract is done.
Iglesias- Depends how he does in AAA this year. I like him and I think he will be on the roster next year. But if he doesnt show improvement next year then they will pick up Scoots option and keep Lowrie. I know people have already anointed Lowrie as the future starter but he has to show this year that he can stay healthy and perform consistenly for a whole season. If he does he is the starter next year with Scoot backing him up and being the super utility sub.
Doubruont- I think he will be a long relief guy out of the pen next year, with the chance to take Dice-K’s spot the year after. There is a lot of variables that come into play after next year. But I do believe the whole rotation is signed through 2012. If thats the case he is blocked out of the rotation.
Aceves – Look at Doubrount. I see him getting some playing time this year due to injuries and will be in the bullpen at some point in the year. Starts off as the 6th starter next year.
Wagner/Expo – Depends on Tek, Salty, and their own development. Also involves Lavarnways development too. Again too many variables.
With all these supposed promotions
it seems the Red Sox payroll will diminish significantly next year. The gaping holes: RF, DH, Bench, CL will all be filled internally. And we shave off tons of money in the process from the likes of Pap, Ortiz, Wake, Scutaro, Drew and Wheeler. After arb and contracts escalations, they should be at a reasonable place. Good work Theo.
That money might be used on a starting pitcher
Maybe enticing Buerhle into a three year contract and trading Dice-K to an NL team with a large park.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
Official Baker of Red Sox Nation
by TheLoneDavid on Mar 21, 2011 1:50 AM EDT up reply actions
I'd bet pretty well
that we’re at a payroll peak. It’s gone up massively over the last couple years, so I expect them to want it to drop a bit if they can remain a good team while spending less.
Well, let's take a look
http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=tz8qHiYrIzlFtVnly7gibjw&output=html
We are on the hook already for 101 million, not counting Gonzalez
Crawford 20.357
Beckett 17.000
Lackey 15.950
Youk 12.250
Dice 10.330
Pedroia 8.250
Lester 7.630
Jenks 6.000
Iglesias 2.060
Scutaro 1.500 (BO)
Bard, Lowrie, Buchholz, Aceves, Salty – Arb
Kalish, Doubront – Min
Figure in about 20 for Gonzalez and another 10 for arbitration/contracts/minimums and you are at 130 million. Leaving about 30 million to use toward FA
This assumes no in season trades of course
Too much
Money’s invested in the rotation already. I’d say maybe extensions for young players like Clay but that’s it.
Disagree
With all of the holes filled on the field, the rotation becomes the biggest weakness for the team. We never know which Beckett is going to show up on a day to day basis, Lackey has disappointed so far, and Dice-K flopped hard. To win on a more consistent basis, the Sox should have at least one more pitcher they can rely on.
I know Dice-K is an above-average #5 starter, but the way things are going, Beckett’s looking like a very below average #4. Adding someone like Buehrle drastically improves the rotation, because you can bump Dice-K, or Beckett, and have Lackey as your number 4.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
Official Baker of Red Sox Nation
by TheLoneDavid on Mar 21, 2011 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions
Beckett's last four seasons by WAR
2007: 6.5
2008: 5.1
2009: 5.4
2010: 1.4
I’m not really going to hold an injury riddled season against him when his track record suggests he should be fine. His ST hasn’t been bad, and even then, nothing we can take from it if it was good either.
But I think you’re overstating the state of our rotation. Dice at 5 should be fine, Beckett at 4 will be too. And was Lackey that big of a dissappointment? He came in here and ate innings like he was supposed to. After May was over he did very well, posting an ERA under 4 in every month except for August where his FIP/xFIP suggest it was bad luck. Buchholz and Lester at the top keep us very formidable. The only rotations that I might cherish more than our own based on what I expect this year would probably be Chicago’s (WS), maybe Milwaukee’s with health, Philadelphia’s, San Fransisco’s, Tampa’s (Depending on the development of the back of their rotation, if they don’t develop than that rotation isn’t particularly fearsome at all), Toronto is in that boat as well. Looking at all of them, there are only 3 I fear more than ours and two more that have as many questions as our rotation does. This is the exact same rotation that went into last season heralded as the deepest in the league (that was of course before Philly and San Fransisco channeled the 90’s Braves), the pitchers aren’t any different, besides injury we have no objective reason to expect any different than their career averages from each of these guys, except maybe Buchholz since he’s still developing as a pitcher.
As a wise man named Yoda would say “One bad year, a career does not make.” The rotation may be the weakest area of our team (besides catcher) but that doesn’t particularly mean it’s weak. There are always ways to upgrade anything, unless of course you field an all-star team, but at what point do the upgrades start having too little impact given the money involved?
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
by Rogue Nine on Mar 21, 2011 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
If you have the money available, why not spend it?
I don’t see the point on sitting on a 130 million payroll when you have the flexibility to hit 150-160. If the Sox are in financial trouble at 160 then that’s fine, I understand, but from all I’ve heard that isn’t the case.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
Official Baker of Red Sox Nation
by TheLoneDavid on Mar 21, 2011 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions
I think there are other things we'll want to be spending it on.
Extensions for Buchholz, maybe even Lowrie if he has a breakout year. We’ll need to at least partially restock the bullpen in a year. Papelbon may not be a great closer, but he will leave a hole in the bullpen that will need filling. Potentially another outfielder if one of the young guys can’t take the final spot, assuming Kalish takes over for Drew. Catcher also. If Salty sucks we could trade for a higher priced guy, if he’s great, he too could be extended. And if Lowrie isn’t as good full time, we’ll need to invest in another 3B or DH.
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
The rotation is not the biggest weakness on the team
Last year, the Sox’ starters had the best FIP in the AL, and were ranked 3rd by xFIP and 5th by ERA. And that’s with a disappointing Beckett and Lackey (as well as an over-performing Buchholz). Assuming Clay regresses and Beckett and Lackey improve somewhat, the Sox should still have one of the better rotations in the league (if healthy).
All teams have question marks. Right now, catcher is the biggest apparent weakness for the Sox.
Aside from durability, please explain how acquiring Mark Buehrle (assuming he’s even available) “drastically improves the rotation”? It’s debatable whether Buehrle is better than Lackey.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Mar 21, 2011 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions
Who are you going to get on the free agent market to upgrade at catcher?
Yadier Molina is the only “good” catcher on the Free Agent list for 2012, and he has a club option that would more than likely be picked up.
Buehrle may not be better than Lackey, but he’s much better than Dice-K, slotting into the 3rd spot in the rotation he pushes Beckett to the 5th spot, which gives you a 5 man rotation that, barring injuries could each give you ~200 innings. This saves the bullpen, which seems to get wrung out every other Dice-K start, and wins you more games.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
Official Baker of Red Sox Nation
by TheLoneDavid on Mar 21, 2011 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Soto?!
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
Not a free agent.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
Official Baker of Red Sox Nation
by TheLoneDavid on Mar 21, 2011 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Could be traded for an extended.
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
You should start a donation fund.
I bet if you can collect a couple dozen million dollars, you get the Sox to just buy Soto.
Buehrle is better than Dice-K. But he isn’t “much better.” Buehrle is a career 3.85 ERA/4.15 FIP/4.25 xFIP pitcher, compared to Dice-K’s career 4.18 ERA/4.21 FIP/4.58 xFIP. Over the past three seasons, Buehrle has averaged 3.9 WAR. Excluding the 2009 season, when he was injured, Dice-K has averaged 3.2 WAR a season. Matsuzaka may be frustrating at times, but he isn’t as bad as many on this site seem to think.
I didn’t propose an alternative. I just said that the catching position was the Sox’ most apparent weakness in response to your statement that the Sox’ biggest weakness is their starting rotation.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Mar 21, 2011 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions
I know he isn't "bad"
But Buehrle’s been talking about retirement, which means he could probably be had for two to three years, and then you can package Dice-K to a team like the Mets, Padres, or Mariners. Grab a somewhat decent prospect in return and you’ve improved the team.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
Official Baker of Red Sox Nation
by TheLoneDavid on Mar 21, 2011 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions
We would have to pay most of his contract to get anything worth while in trade
And then, is the marginal increase in wins between them worth paying both of their salaries? If we could dump all of the contract it would help, but we would have to expect to not get much in return.
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
Too many moving parts to make a trade
Assuming Buehrle is available, the Sox would have to find a good return for Dice-K and then get him to waive his no-trade clause. You’re not the first person to mention the Mets as a potential trade partner. In my opinion, this is very unlikely for two reasons: the Mets aren’t adding salary right now and they have little of value to give the Sox in return. As for the M’s or Padres, why would two rebuilding teams trade prospects for a veteran pitcher?
Assuming the Sox find a trade partner for Dice-K, Buehrle won’t come cheap. The Chisox are contenders in the Central. They are going to want something pretty decent for one of their better pitchers. The Sox’ system is already somewhat depleted after the Gonzalez trade. In order to trade for Buehrle, Boston would need to get some good prospects for Dice-K. Since this seems unlikely, a trade with Chicago doesn’t make much sense.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Mar 21, 2011 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions
I wasn't talking about trading for him.
I was talking about 2012, when he’s a free agent.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
Official Baker of Red Sox Nation
by TheLoneDavid on Mar 21, 2011 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions
OK. But Dice-K won't be easy to move
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Mar 21, 2011 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions
I wouldn't be surprised to see a team like the Brewers take a shot on him for their #4
He could even go to the Cards is Wainwright needs more time.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
Official Baker of Red Sox Nation
by TheLoneDavid on Mar 21, 2011 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Let's not forget that Dice-K has a no-trade clause
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Mar 21, 2011 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes, I know he has a no-trade clause
However, I think he can also be convinced that going elsewhere would be a good thing.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
Official Baker of Red Sox Nation
by TheLoneDavid on Mar 21, 2011 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions
he also has a $10 million a year salary
and the Brewers seem unlikely to want to spend that on a #4 starter. They’ll have Prince’s money becoming free, but that leaves a gaping hole as far as offense goes and they’ll already have a pretty good rotation headlined by Greinke, Marcum, and Gallardo.
The Cards are saving their pennies for something else.
Remember
Buehrle for Coco Crisp? Should have pulled the trigger.
Really?
Wow… I’m surprised we didn’t pull the trigger on that deal. I missed that one. Was that before or after we traded him for… Ramon Ramirez?
Boston would have made that trade
According to Gordon Edes, the White Sox weren’t interested.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Mar 21, 2011 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions
He was just an example
really any good starting pitcher would do. Buehrle could most likely be had for less years though, because he’s been talking about retirement.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
Official Baker of Red Sox Nation
by TheLoneDavid on Mar 22, 2011 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions
He threw a perfect game!
He’s an amazing fielder
When life gives you questions, Google has answers.
School. School. School. See you in 2011 Red Sox !
Well, they did have the Buerhle meter on ESPN all of 2010, right?
I mean, that was a hell of a play… but I thought it was a little worn out as a frame of reference by, say, June?
Why on earth
would we sign a starting pitcher if we have Aceves/Dice/Doubront waiting in the wings? I can only justify it if our 3 and 4 starters are awful in 2010.
I think you mean 2011
And as I stated before, this is for the 2011-12 offseason, not right now.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
Official Baker of Red Sox Nation
by TheLoneDavid on Mar 22, 2011 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions
It makes no sense then either
All of the current Sox starters are signed through the 2012 season. Also Buehrle isn’t young. He’ll be 33-years old at the start of the 2012 season.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Mar 22, 2011 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions
And he'll be 36 at the end of a three-year contract.
And was an example, pick any “good” starter you want.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
Official Baker of Red Sox Nation
by TheLoneDavid on Mar 22, 2011 8:23 PM EDT up reply actions
The Sox already have a good rotation
Why pick another pitcher and lose draft picks (via FA) or prospects (via trade)?
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Mar 22, 2011 8:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Because the rotation is another year older
Wakefield will be gone, and the Sox don’t have Casey Kelly to fall back on when Dice-K leaves anymore. I would rather sign Buehrle (or someone else!) and try to package Dice K and some prospects to someone like the Reds or Nationals for a catcher to replace Salty if he struggles this year.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
Official Baker of Red Sox Nation
by TheLoneDavid on Mar 22, 2011 10:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Buehrle doesn't make them younger
Buehrle would be the oldest pitcher in Boston’s rotation, if the Sox acquired him. He is 6 months older than Lackey and a year or so older than Beckett and Dice-K.
The Sox have pitching prospects. Anthony Ranaudo and Drake Britton were in most evaluator’s top 100 prospect lists. Theo wouldn’t have traded Kelly if there were no other pitching prospects in the system.
As noted before, Buehrle isn’t much of an upgrade over Dice-K—and he certainly isn’t worth Dice-K and whatever prospects or draft picks the Sox would have to move to get him. Here are the other potential FA starters without options for the 2012 season:
Mark Buehrle CWS
Kyle Davies KC
Zach Duke ARI
Edwin Jackson CWS
Paul Maholm PIT
Jason Marquis WAS
Oliver Perez NYM
Joel Pineiro LAA
Brian Tallet STL
Tim Wakefield BOS
C.J. Wilson TEX
When throwing out trade possibilities or FA signings you have to be specific and not just say Buehrle “or someone else.” Also, as noted earlier too, Dice-K won’t be easy to move.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Mar 23, 2011 7:20 AM EDT up reply actions
We could trade spare parts for King Felix
/Yankees fans post-Cliff Lee
"Laser show. So relax."
by nuthinboutnuthin on Mar 25, 2011 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions
True
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Mar 25, 2011 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes
I mean 2011. And yes I mean for the 2011/2012 offseason.
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