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A Tale of Two Sluggers

It is practically uncouth to bemoan Albert Pujols's decision to sign a ten-year deal with the Angels. We've known forever that in modern times sports has become a business above all, and that if there wasn't money to be made from putting butts into seats, many a baseball player might now be working at the Citgo.*

However, even in spite of the fact that it was perhaps the logical business decision for Pujols to sign for $254 million over the next decade (and leapfrogging far, far over the head of Adrian Gonzalez in the process), that doesn't necessarily mean it was the right thing to do. There's no doubt that Pujols is a once-in-a-generation talent, and will love playing in the American League, and will make a huge impact for years to come both as a first baseman and in the future as a designated hitter. But that really ignores the point that what Pujols has done is only a few steps above what Johnny Damon did when joining the Yankees after the 2005 season.

Star-divide

There are certain players who become synonymous with a franchise. If you think about that team, that player immediately comes to mind. With the Mariners, for instance, there's no doubt that Ichiro is far and away their "face." (King Felix may usurp that throne, too, someday, but only following Ichiro's retirement.) In New York, Jeter and Rivera split those honors today. For the Cardinals of the late 2000's and early 2010's—indeed, until just this afternoon, that player was Albert Pujols.

When you have a player that climbs onto that exalted plain in the minds, and hearts, of an entire franchise, the rules do change. What might work for another player—even a better player—from the same franchise really can't be countenanced. Your typical player should absolutely do whatever he feels best in free agency, and such moves should be accepted on the part of a fan base with gratitude for services rendered, and the promise of future support (plus booing, as is appropriate when a beloved star goes to a hated rival). But when a player is indelibly linked with a team's rise and fall, when the stars align and produce that rare marriage of fame and talent (even if somewhat dimmed by the onslaughts of time), there is some loyalty owed to the franchise as well.

Now, by this, I don't mean that the player should just accept whatever is handed to him and be grateful. I said that there was some loyalty owed, not unflagging fidelity! It would be naive and foolhardy for a franchise to expect that in return. However, what I mean by this is that last million or two extra per year should not be responsible for a player moving away from the club that made him.

If there's a fundamental and irreconcilable difference—the player wants a eight-year deal, and the club only wants to offer four—then of course a visit to the free-agency talent pool is not unreasonable. However, all reports indicate that the Cardinals did indeed offer Pujols a ten-year deal. This means that, ultimately, the issue came down to a matter of loyalty versus money. For Pujols, the money talked, and now he'll be playing in the American League instead of the National League. He'll also be playing for a rather blasé fan base who are not nearly as dedicated to the craft of baseball watching as St. Louis's. He might have some fans won over immediately—he is Pujols, after all—but the unstinting support he would have had had he remained with the Cardinals, will now have to be re-earned.

Furthermore, as a result of today's deal, Pujols joins the club with that paragon of all baseball virtue, Alex Rodriguez, in becoming baseball mercenaries who will simply seek out the highest bidder. I certainly hope that the Angels haven't offered Pujols an opt-out in his contract (à la Rodriguez and C. C. Sabathia).

In contrast to this, you have players like David Ortiz, who is as much a fixture in Fenway as Pujols was at Busch. Other than Pedro Martinez and Dustin Pedroia, there is not another face that is as closely tied to the history of the Sox in the twenty-first century, and you can argue that his contributions have been even more important, given that he's been on both of the World Series teams.

But if you've looked at his contract history, you'll see that the only time he's ever gone on the free-agent market was after the 2002 season—that is, when he signed with the Red Sox. Since then, he's been resigned to deal after deal: one-year contracts in 2003 and 2004, a two-year extension in 2004, a four-year extension in 2006, the club option last year, and arbitration this year. Not only has he never entered the free-agent market; until this year, he was never even in sight of the free agent market.

Now it's clear that Ortiz hasn't always been happy with these moves—he was hoping for a new deal before the start of this season, and by all rights deserved one. However, he has (mostly) played during the regular season with his usual grace and goodhumor, and has once more chosen to forego free agency and a last big payday in exchange for another chance for the franchise for which "Big Papi" is as much a mascot as a home run threat.

In an age in which cynicism reigns supreme over everything, it means something when a player like Ortiz shows the same love to the franchise as its fans have shown him. We'll gladly agree to never bring up the calls to DFA Papi during the pre-"eye drop" part of 2009 again, if he promises never to put on a Yankees cap again, even in jest.

And, really, that's what we have to be thankful for: as things stand right now, we don't have to worry about the horrific possibility that, someday soon, we'd have to see a star we've loved and grown older with put on somebody else's batting helmet or stand on the mound wearing another player's jersey. That's something to be thankful for no matter what.

*Special thanks to the fine folks at Pats Pulpit for that gem of an analogy.

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As someone who hates the Angels organization

I love seeing seeing them sign Wilson and Pujols.

The 2011 Over the Monster Gedman League Fantasy Baseball Champion

I hate free agency

by gizmosandy on Dec 8, 2011 4:58 PM EST reply actions  

Agreed

They might be scary now, but in three years they’ll be the Cubs of the AL.

I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.

by TheLoneDavid on Dec 8, 2011 5:01 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't see them as scary

the pitching is for sure, but who hits behind Albert?

Not very impressive. If they were going to spend that kinf of $ should have went after Fielder/Reyes

The 2011 Over the Monster Gedman League Fantasy Baseball Champion

I hate free agency

by gizmosandy on Dec 8, 2011 5:02 PM EST up reply actions  

We can downplay them all we want

Hell, that is what the Cardinal fans are doing. But it’s not like their lineup is the A’s. They have enough talent in that lineup and the others around the middle of the order are likely to improve now that he is in the line-up. Not to mention they’ll soon be playing games against Astro’s poor pitching and CJ Wilson and possibly a couple of the A’s good young starters will no longer be on the mound opposing them.

by The Name is Dalton on Dec 8, 2011 9:16 PM EST up reply actions  

I mean

The line-up isn’t top of the league as of last year, but their young guys have another year under their belt and who knows Morales might actually have a working leg this year. They’ll be fine offensively.

by The Name is Dalton on Dec 8, 2011 9:22 PM EST up reply actions  

And,they might just be in the next 3 WS,making what ever happens later irrelevent.

by Robert57 on Dec 8, 2011 8:34 PM EST up reply actions  

not likely

The 2011 Over the Monster Gedman League Fantasy Baseball Champion

I hate free agency

by gizmosandy on Dec 8, 2011 8:42 PM EST up reply actions  

This is a great move to ruin the Angels in the long run

But it’s also a rather DB move by Pujols, too.

Fenway: "An alternate and better universe, disguised as a ballpark." --Thomas Boswell

by lone1c on Dec 8, 2011 5:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Turning his back on what is essentially his team.

It’s sort of the point of the piece. . . .

Fenway: "An alternate and better universe, disguised as a ballpark." --Thomas Boswell

by lone1c on Dec 8, 2011 5:30 PM EST up reply actions  

I have to agree with you, but...

… it wasn’t for a couple million.

Rumor late yesterday was that the Cardinals had offered 10 years/$220 million; and the Cardinals quickly refuted that they had offered anywhere near that much… so assume they did offer at least $220 million… you’re looking at $34 million more to go to the Angels.

As much as I want to fault Pujols for walking away, and I think he should have stayed in Saint Louis, if that number is accurate? If it really was more than $30 million difference? Then I think he really doesn’t have a choice there, does he?

I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.

Wait ’til next year!

by AlohaSox on Dec 8, 2011 6:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Problem with that is

reports also said he turned down 275 million from Miami. A state that has so income tax which would have made his contract worth around 300 million. (though they didn’t offer a no trade clause)

So the decision wasn’t totally about the money.

by ThoughtsAndSox on Dec 8, 2011 6:15 PM EST up reply actions  

Wow... I find it hard to believe they made that offer.

(Of course, the lack of a no trade is an interesting one… suggests that this spending spree is for their next WS run, and then they’ll blow it all up again.)

I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.

Wait ’til next year!

by AlohaSox on Dec 8, 2011 6:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Just wondering if there was anything more.

I just never blame the guy for his own personal decision. He gave St. Louis a lot – probably his best years. They have no right to complain.

by Sologub on Dec 8, 2011 6:56 PM EST up reply actions  

Then they should have paid him like it was his team.

"Man you are one pathetic loser. No offense." - Lloyd Christmas

by Lloyd Christmas on Dec 9, 2011 12:44 AM EST up reply actions  

Loyalty goes both ways

Where was the Cardinals’ loyalty when they didn’t lock Pujols up long-term three years ago, two years ago or last year? This is their own fault.

by Zagz on Dec 8, 2011 5:25 PM EST reply actions  

The question is of degree

If they offered him anything near what the Angels offered, that’s on Pujols, not the team.

Like I said, I don’t expect slavish devotion to a team, but for some players, the normal rules can’t really apply. For instance, did anybody seriously expect Rivera to take our offer last year? The only way it would have happened is if the Yankees didn’t extend him a contract.

Fenway: "An alternate and better universe, disguised as a ballpark." --Thomas Boswell

by lone1c on Dec 8, 2011 5:33 PM EST up reply actions  

That was Rivera’s choice, and Pujols shouldn’t be considered disloyal for taking the best offer.

"Man you are one pathetic loser. No offense." - Lloyd Christmas

by Lloyd Christmas on Dec 9, 2011 12:38 AM EST up reply actions  

Also

Didn’t we give Rivera the say contract offer as the Yankees? I would have liked Pujols to stay in St. Luis, it would have made a great story. But fact remains the Cards offered something like 220 million over 9 years and the Angles offered 250 million over 10 years. He got significantly more money. Add to that the facts his long time manager retired and he’s already won 2 WS rings and 3 MVPs for the Cards, perhaps her felt he had nothing more to gain playing there. As it was mentioned above, he turned down 275 mil over 10 years from the Marlins, so it wasn’t just about being the highest paid.

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by brogshan on Dec 9, 2011 10:59 AM EST up reply actions  

$$$

When talking about $220 million dollars,more money then he could ever spend,changing teams over 34 million doesn’t make sense,unless he really wanted a change. One thing, he did him self a favor by signing with an AL team. As we all know, the NL will never adopt the DH.

by Robert57 on Dec 12, 2011 3:07 PM EST up reply actions  

When talking about $220 million dollars,more money then he could ever spend,changing teams over 34 million doesn’t make sense,

Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.

@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
OTM | Silver Seven

by Bloggy on Dec 12, 2011 3:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Unless I've missed something new

The Cardinals offered at least FIFTY MILLION less than the Angels; according to MLBTR, the Cardinal’s offer was the fourth-best one that he received. I don’t see how anyone sane can fault him even a little bit or question his loyalty/integrity over this move.

by Jake_W on Dec 8, 2011 5:43 PM EST reply actions  

Fifty million out of $250 million

Is not qualitatively the same thing as $20K out of $100K. At that level, you’re talking about noise.

Like I said, I expect that this will go over only slightly better than Damon to Yankees went down in Beantown.

Fenway: "An alternate and better universe, disguised as a ballpark." --Thomas Boswell

by lone1c on Dec 8, 2011 6:00 PM EST up reply actions  

Wow... I don't agree.

Sure, $200 million buys you anything you would ever want in your lifetime… but 20% of the total contract is a huge disparity. I don’t care how loyal you are to your current employer… if someone offered you $20K more than your currrent $100K, you’d be gone in a heartbeat.

In the end, it might be the wrong move and years from now, you might wish you’d stayed with the company that nurtured you in your youth. But whether $20k/$100k or $50M/$250M… that is a huge difference and hard to imagine the person that turns it down.

I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.

Wait ’til next year!

by AlohaSox on Dec 8, 2011 6:05 PM EST up reply actions  

Fifty million out of 250 million is just noise?

We’re gonna have to agree to disagree on that one.

by Jake_W on Dec 8, 2011 6:05 PM EST up reply actions  

I might have an easier time believing that if he signed with the Cubs

Then he’d not only arguably be making a mercenary move, he’d also be going to his team’s most hated rival.

This may be mercenary — then again, how many people wouldn’t take the extra $50 million? — but it’s not the same as a Red Sox signing with the Yankees. It’s more like a Red Sox signing with the Giants.

by RSNexile on Dec 8, 2011 6:10 PM EST up reply actions  

We seem to share quite a few opinions.

by frozendesert on Dec 9, 2011 2:57 AM EST up reply actions  

screw you!

is my well-thought-out, analytical response to your statement.

by wolf9309 on Dec 9, 2011 4:37 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Giants suck

is my also well thought out and incredibly well spoken reply

I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.

by TheLoneDavid on Dec 9, 2011 11:43 AM EST up reply actions  

Having a DH chance when he gets to be 39-41

Is also something that is being brushed aside. It will likely help him stay healthier as he reaches the late stages of his career. He’ll probably stay at 1B as long as possible, but he won’t be able to forever and there will be less chance of injury if he can spend time at DH in a few years.

As far as loyalty to the Cardinals, he brought them 2 World Series championships, 7 playoff appearances in the last 11 years (I think it’s 7) and gave them just over a decade of the best hitter in baseball at a big discount. Not even taking into account the things that he has contributed to the community.

by The Name is Dalton on Dec 8, 2011 9:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Pujols

It’s still a shame when someone like Pujols leaves their original team.

by Robert57 on Dec 12, 2011 3:10 PM EST up reply actions  

The Angels aren't the Cubs.

If Damon signed with the Braves, instead of the Yanks, there wouldn’t have been near the vitriol. Not really a good comparison.

"Man you are one pathetic loser. No offense." - Lloyd Christmas

by Lloyd Christmas on Dec 9, 2011 12:41 AM EST up reply actions  

Noise??

Give me a @#$%ing break.

Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.

@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
OTM | Silver Seven

by Bloggy on Dec 9, 2011 5:38 AM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Not Faulting

He has a right to go where ever he want’s. I just wonder, how much money does one person need? Unless he was unhappy there,the Cardinals offer is still a mind boggling amount of money.

by Robert57 on Dec 12, 2011 3:22 PM EST up reply actions  

You mean, like when they said they wanted him to be a Cardinal for life...

… and offered him a 5 year contract?

Yeah, I think that might have upset him a little.

I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.

Wait ’til next year!

by AlohaSox on Dec 13, 2011 1:45 AM EST up reply actions  

Some in STL say it is because LaRussa left and the FO snubbed Oquendo as the next Manager

This was probably just more than the money. Pujols is apparently very close to Oquendo and the Card FO showed him no loyalty though he was a lifetime employee – so when they chose Matheny it may hae been a tipping point. I do not know just a thought

"Man that ball got outta here in a hurry, you know anything that travels that far oughta have a damn stewardess on it, don't you think?" - Crash Davis

by Dave D on Dec 8, 2011 7:21 PM EST reply actions  

its all about the money

The 2011 Over the Monster Gedman League Fantasy Baseball Champion

I hate free agency

by gizmosandy on Dec 8, 2011 7:37 PM EST up reply actions  

At that level of $$$ not using it to do what you want is dumb

He wanted a contract for the last couple of years = snub. He gave 0guendo a huge shout out and was ignored = snub. He came to winter meetings waiting for the Cards who came with too little too late = snub. He is rich enough to say “you had your chance”. Sorry about the fans who are so invested in him.

by GerryT on Dec 8, 2011 8:52 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Cannot blame him for leaving

The 2011 Over the Monster Gedman League Fantasy Baseball Champion

I hate free agency

by gizmosandy on Dec 9, 2011 7:27 AM EST up reply actions  

If you'll recall...

ARod was going to take a pay cut to play in Boston.

by Dale Sams on Dec 8, 2011 8:06 PM EST reply actions  

yep

The 2011 Over the Monster Gedman League Fantasy Baseball Champion

I hate free agency

by gizmosandy on Dec 8, 2011 8:42 PM EST up reply actions  

yup

…history would be pretty different. Other pieces were going to be moved too, Manny? Nomar? I don’t remember. ARod wasn’t the only big piece.

…and it wasn’t ‘He didn’t’. The union wouldn’t let him. Just a hisotrical nitpick.

As for the OP. Ridiculous. The FO and owners will ALWAYS say ’it’s a business’. I’ve never seen anyone hand out bonus checks when a player (like Ortiz) far exceeds their contract. Pujols blew his away, and this is his payday.

by Dale Sams on Dec 8, 2011 8:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Manny was going to the White Sox for Magglio Ordonez

Nomar was going somewhere, I don’t remember.

I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.

by TheLoneDavid on Dec 8, 2011 9:31 PM EST up reply actions  

Ramirez would've went to Texas

If it went through, Nomar was reportedly going to be exchanged for Magglio Ordonez.

by The Name is Dalton on Dec 8, 2011 9:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Great pic!

He flipped off the fans years before the 2011 group.

"Play Hard Always"

by MassGal on Dec 9, 2011 6:08 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Had to rec this as well.

My only comeback would be to show Tino hitting a bomb off him in the World Series. Thus, I have no retort. Still don’t think people really cared that he was leaving.

by The Name is Dalton on Dec 9, 2011 8:05 AM EST up reply actions  

Theo's First Bad Trade

was Shea Hillebrand for Kim. Kim pitched well for awhile, but was not worth a quality homegrown player in his prime.

by Robert57 on Dec 12, 2011 3:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Didn't everyone hate Shea Hillenbrand

because he was overrated and a piece of crap? Or am I thinking of someone else?

Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.

@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
OTM | Silver Seven

by Bloggy on Dec 12, 2011 3:26 PM EST up reply actions  

You

are thinking of someone else,or, you are an idiot.. He was a guy who was coming into his own,could play 3rd,1st and catch.He went on to have several good seasons in San Diego.Check his numbers at baseball-reference.com

by Robert57 on Dec 12, 2011 3:29 PM EST up reply actions  

You would do well to mind your tone when you talk to me, old man.

He had crap defence. He had one good year with the Sox, one less-than-good year. He was replaced by Bill Mueller, who you may recall, won a batting title, walked off on Mariano memorably, and knocked home Dave Roberts in what began The Single Greatest Comeback in Sports History.

On his way out the door, he was all trash-talk. When he went to the Jays, he was writing trash on the bulletin boards and pissin’ and moanin’ because he was splitting time between 1st, 3rd, and DH (which you claim was one of his “assets”) and had to be DFA’d.

Good riddance to bad rubbish.

Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.

@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
OTM | Silver Seven

by Bloggy on Dec 12, 2011 3:41 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm with you...

He was overrated, and didn’t really do much after he left the Sox.

I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.

Wait ’til next year!

by AlohaSox on Dec 13, 2011 1:46 AM EST up reply actions  

Dude

You need to watch what you’re typing. As it is you’ve spouted nothing but word vomit so far. Don’t go attacking Bloggy for speaking the truth.

by Sean O on Dec 12, 2011 7:42 PM EST up reply actions  

This.

I’m extremely happy that Rodriguez is on the Yankees. Takes care of two problems at once.

by frozendesert on Dec 9, 2011 2:45 AM EST up reply actions  

I don't know...

I think Manny and Nomar for A-Rod and Magglio would’ve been an obviously great deal.

by revived0103 on Dec 9, 2011 4:53 AM EST up reply actions  

revived

I agree. The last we saw of Manny was mid 09. A-Rod is still a productive ballplayer. That’s one part. Part 2 Nmar was about done when this trade would have been made. Magglio may still have another year in him. He would have been the best RFder since Dewey,for several years. That being said,I hate A-Rod.

by Robert57 on Dec 9, 2011 7:20 AM EST up reply actions  

If we had traded for Slappy McHandbag

We wouldn’t have won in 2004, we also probably wouldn’t have won in 2007, and neither of you would likely be Red Sox fans.

I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.

by TheLoneDavid on Dec 9, 2011 11:44 AM EST up reply actions  

Yeah...

I’m about to celebrate my one year anniversary with my girlfriend. I have a family who loves me, and a pretty legendary group of friends.

Sorry your insults don’t work.

I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.

by TheLoneDavid on Dec 9, 2011 2:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Oh and

Insult hard always.

I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.

by TheLoneDavid on Dec 9, 2011 2:30 PM EST up reply actions  

I know.

I love Manny, so I don’t regret it at all. But at the time, it would’ve been the right deal to make.

by revived0103 on Dec 9, 2011 3:01 PM EST up reply actions  

I'd take Manny over A-Rod any day of the week.

Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.

@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
OTM | Silver Seven

by Bloggy on Dec 9, 2011 3:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Agreed.

I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.

by TheLoneDavid on Dec 9, 2011 3:38 PM EST up reply actions  

Even now?

ignoring insane contracts

by revived0103 on Dec 9, 2011 3:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Even now

Manny might be a cheater, but A Rod is a cheater and a blue lipped, centaur humping, ball slapping, handbag wearing, pussy bitch.

I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.

by TheLoneDavid on Dec 9, 2011 4:06 PM EST up reply actions  

But

If I recall we would have also sent a minor league pitcher named John Lester…

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by brogshan on Dec 9, 2011 11:03 AM EST up reply actions  

No...

..actually they were holding out on giving up Lester. That’s how much regard they had for him even back then.

by Dale Sams on Dec 9, 2011 12:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Good point :)

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by brogshan on Dec 9, 2011 2:35 PM EST up reply actions  

Revived

I agree. Manny is gone while A-rod is still a productive player. Having Ordonez in RF all these years,instead of Drew, would have been awesome. He would be a great pickup for Boston now, as a platoon Rfder,if he has anything left. Plus, you have to ask yourself how many more HR’s would A-Rod have hit in Fenway?

by Robert57 on Dec 12, 2011 3:16 PM EST up reply actions  

@#$% A-Rod. Seriously.

I don’t want the stick of that guy on my team.

Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.

@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
OTM | Silver Seven

by Bloggy on Dec 12, 2011 3:20 PM EST up reply actions  

*stink of that guy

although “stick” works, too, I guess.

Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.

@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
OTM | Silver Seven

by Bloggy on Dec 12, 2011 3:26 PM EST up reply actions  

A-Rod

I hate the S.O.B. myself,but you can’t argue the numbers,and, I don’ think he took steroids, which of course, Manny did.

by Robert57 on Dec 12, 2011 3:32 PM EST up reply actions  

That's brilliant analysis.

He admitted to taking steroids for his entire tenure with the Rangers, and wants us to believe that he stopped once he got traded to the Yankees.

You know… since the pressure of his contract in Texas was too much to bear, and he had to take steroids to perform… but the contracts he signed with the Yankees were for a lot less money, and in a market with a lot less pressure.

I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.

Wait ’til next year!

by AlohaSox on Dec 13, 2011 1:52 AM EST up reply actions  

I find this article slightly offensive

Pujols can’t play for more money? He has to be owned by a team and the fans? He is not allowed to be an individual and make decisions based on what he feels is important?

“Your typical player should absolutely do whatever he feels best in free agency..”

So should every player no matter how well they’ve played.

by Florida Johnny on Dec 8, 2011 11:52 PM EST reply actions  

This

"Man you are one pathetic loser. No offense." - Lloyd Christmas

by Lloyd Christmas on Dec 9, 2011 12:41 AM EST up reply actions  

Agreed

I do not understand the reaction.Nor did I understand similar reactions when Lebron James left the Cavs.

"Play Hard Always"

by MassGal on Dec 9, 2011 6:02 AM EST up reply actions  

I understand the loyalty aspect

I don’t believe that you’re required to stay with said team, but a player that embodies a franchise has to acknowledge that embodiment. Pujols gave the cards more than a fair chance and he doesn’t owe the fans. LeBron left the Cavs in the dickiest way possible on national TV, there is a difference there.

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by brogshan on Dec 9, 2011 11:07 AM EST up reply actions  

Totally agree.

Pujols gave the Cardinals plenty of time to keep him around, and in the end, they didn’t offer enough to keep him.

Cleveland got hung out to dry on national TV by a home town, and home grown hero.

Not even close to the same ballpark.

I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.

Wait ’til next year!

by AlohaSox on Dec 9, 2011 2:59 PM EST up reply actions  

No. no difference - choosing to move on

The bottom line is, neither owed anyone anything. The debate can go ‘round & ’round: there is leaving and then there is LEAVING or it isn’t that he left but how he left,blah, blah, blah. I do not buy it:

So many people seem to have a problem with the fanfare & hype surrounding the James departure but that is their issue. James wasn’t happy, he wanted more/different so he bounced. it isn’t as if he refused to play out his contract. Why are athletes expected to stay in one place? We ( people overall) don’t stay put in our professional lives nor in our personal lives. It is an outdated notion.

I , too, understand loyalty but I think loyalty is being used in the elastic sense in these discussions. We may associate people with a team, product, tv series, relationship or whatever but so what? Free will.

It is the “disappoint” : when I think about Manny’s departure ( sigh, the WAY he left was like a bad & ridiculously long movie) or a break up or a friend moving away, etc. it doesn’t feel right but life is about change, accept that change and keep it moving.

"Play Hard Always"

by MassGal on Dec 10, 2011 6:08 AM EST up reply actions  

So

They way change happens shouldn’t effect how you react to it? I don’t buy that.

Look, if Papi left that team, I’d be upset. It is because he’s my favorite player, for my favorite team. Why else be a fan or something if you don’t get invested?

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by brogshan on Dec 11, 2011 8:22 PM EST up reply actions  

Unfortunately, we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

I loved Manny right up until August of 2008. I continue to think that if Boras hadn’t meddled with Manny (and put a bug in his ear to do a few crazy things to make sure the Sox didn’t pick up his option at the end of the year) that Manny would have finished 2008 (and maybe his career) with the Sox, and our Game 7 exit from the ALCS probably plays out a lot differently.

I think Boras didn’t anticipate how far Manny would take his antics, or that the Sox would be so fed up, they’d trade him. (Rumor has it after the deal went through, Boras called Boston and said something to the effect of “no, no, no… don’t trade him. He’ll play hard the rest of the season, I promise.”

Same thing with Damon’s pledge that he’d never play for the Evil Empire. He earned a great deal of love in Boston for making that comment, but when he took the money, he was rightfully compared to Judas. If he simply took the best deal on the market (Wade Boggs), I’d have been disappointed… but the betrayal was making a statement he didn’t need to make, and then… taking the top dollar from the Yankees. (Though, that probably worked out just fine for us.)

Finally, there is LeBron, who grew up in Cleveland and knows the city’s painful sports history; who knows the professional teams there have found a way to lose championships for decades; who made a commitment to bring a title to his home town. Now, if he was frustrated with his ownership and felt that they weren’t bringing him the support he needed to win… that’s fine. However, with all the heartache that city has had, and you as a home grown hero know personally… there are better ways to “take your talents to South Beach” (where you build a dream team in it’s prime to win as many as 6 NBA championships… which I also have trouble with from a competitive standpoint… I loved Magic/Bird as rivals… cannot imagine Magic and Bird teaming up to take on the rest of the NBA) then with a TV special that (whether by design or not) ripped the heart out of Cleveland.

I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.

Wait ’til next year!

by AlohaSox on Dec 13, 2011 12:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Oh, and to borrow from "The Name is Dalton's" style...

Imagine Manny ended his career in Boston, with a pair of steroids tests… you know, I love what he gave to this team, but I’m happy he tested positive with the Dodgers and the Rays (and yet, somehow the Rays survived losing him and made the playoffs last year too).

At least now, I can try to convince people that Manny didn’t start taking steroids until 2008, when he felt like his bat speed was fading, he couldn’t keep up with the elite fastballs anymore, and he needed one more big payday (thank you, Frank McCourt… imagine the bizarro world with McCourt owning the Sox, and Manny testing positive in our uniform…)

I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.

Wait ’til next year!

by AlohaSox on Dec 13, 2011 12:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Plus, he has given them a discount

Over the past decade, he has given them a discount and a pretty dang big one at that.

by The Name is Dalton on Dec 9, 2011 8:07 AM EST up reply actions  

I'm not loyal to any of these guys, so I don't care if they are not loyal to me

go make the money.

I root for the Red Sox, not a specific player.

The 2011 Over the Monster Gedman League Fantasy Baseball Champion

I hate free agency

by gizmosandy on Dec 10, 2011 12:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Interesting take, but I'm going to respctfully disagree.

If you look at the situation, this seems like more than just money. I’d be willing to bet that there was something behind the scenes, like with their managerial situation, that made him feel alienated. It may not make sense to us, but none of us are Albert Pujols. Remember that he is choosing where he wants to spend the next decade of his life, and if something’s wrong and making him uncomfortable.

Also, $50mm is a lot of money, and money talks. I wanted him to remain with the Cardinals, but bad blood or simply money made it difficult. We always want to read into these situations and create narratives, but we are hampered by the problem that we don’t know these guys personally. Also, even considering the state of scouting pre-Moneyball, baseball is more of a meritocracy than many, many professions, especially compared to others in the same salary bracket. Albert would have been a star anywhere—it’s not like he was some crack-addicted, crippled savant that the Cards really believed in.

Does this hurt if I’m a Cardinals fan? Does it make me angry and take some of the shine coming off a championship season? Maybe. Good thing I don’t really give a damn and realize this is just something that happens.

Also, this is a big change for the Angels: signing a player who will actually play well, even if half the contract might be a complete disaster. It breaks their pattern of either signing/taking on terrible players or giving bank vaults full of cash to aggressively mediocre outfielders in their mid-30s.

by Debageldond on Dec 9, 2011 12:47 AM EST via mobile reply actions  

You're right, we don't know the behind-the-scenes story

But it would be nice to know if there was an attempt at something like what Cliff Lee did last year or Teixeira did a few years ago, or if it was just highest bidder wins.

Fenway: "An alternate and better universe, disguised as a ballpark." --Thomas Boswell

by lone1c on Dec 9, 2011 1:19 AM EST up reply actions  

frozendesert brings up a good point

The Angels weren’t the highest bidder, the Marlins were.

"Man you are one pathetic loser. No offense." - Lloyd Christmas

by Lloyd Christmas on Dec 9, 2011 2:48 AM EST up reply actions  

Thanks.

I don’t think it was completely about the money. Having Jeffery Loria as an owner and a (possibly) bankrupt Marlins team in about 8 years isn’t worth the 21 million + state income tax differential.

by frozendesert on Dec 9, 2011 2:50 AM EST up reply actions  

sure it wasn't completely about the money

he also wanted the security of knowing that he could find and live in a home the next 10 years if he chose. The Marlins weren’t offering that. The Angels were for $21 million less total. The Cardinals also were, but for $65 million less. That’s a pretty significant difference.

So essentially, what it means is that the value he placed on a no trade clause was somewhere greater than $21 million over 10 years. If he thought that the Angels also provided the best chance of winning more rings, that also factors in.

by wolf9309 on Dec 9, 2011 4:44 AM EST up reply actions  

Also,

I love Papi as much as the next Sox fan. That being said, comparing him to Pujols in any way, is more of a slap in the face than the Cards contract offer.

"Man you are one pathetic loser. No offense." - Lloyd Christmas

by Lloyd Christmas on Dec 9, 2011 12:51 AM EST reply actions  

It's a slap in the face to say they're both the most popular players in their respective franchises?

Good to know.

Fenway: "An alternate and better universe, disguised as a ballpark." --Thomas Boswell

by lone1c on Dec 9, 2011 1:13 AM EST up reply actions  

I don't ever remember Cards fans

wanting to get rid of Pujols. It wasn’t long ago that many, many Sox fans wanted Papi GONE.

"Man you are one pathetic loser. No offense." - Lloyd Christmas

by Lloyd Christmas on Dec 9, 2011 1:38 AM EST up reply actions  

Papi

I still would have kicked his ass out. To me, he is a big crybaby, A spoiled brat.I appreciate what he did, but his act is getting old. The Sox,who are in such desperate financial straits, could have used that 15 mill to bring in one or two pitchers not named Andrew Miller or Tim Wakefield.

by Robert57 on Dec 12, 2011 3:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Whatever.

Not worth it.

Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.

@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
OTM | Silver Seven

by Bloggy on Dec 12, 2011 3:42 PM EST up reply actions  

Go root for the Yankees

You’re clearly not a Sox fan.

You've got to know your limitations. I don't know what your limitations are. I found out what mine were when I was twelve. I found out that there weren't too many limitations, if I did it my way.
-Johnny Cash

by TheLoneDavid on Dec 12, 2011 6:15 PM EST up reply actions  

You don't belong here

I think WEEI would work better.

by Sean O on Dec 12, 2011 7:43 PM EST up reply actions  

He is?

Pedroia by far.

A huge portion of RSN wanted to let Papi walk.

by Dale Sams on Dec 9, 2011 2:03 AM EST up reply actions  

Pedroia MIGHT be,

but not by far. Papi was around in 04 mind you.

And Sox fans wanted him gone because he was sucking and we wrongly thought he was finished.

by revived0103 on Dec 9, 2011 2:28 AM EST up reply actions  

IMO, the hate on Papi (and Paps, Ells and others) when struggling was sophomoric and small. In fairness, it largely came from pot stirring media ghouls who have zero loyalty and fans whose opinions are formed by talk radio, right down to the erroneous quotes. In sports, baseball in particular, loyalty needs patience. In 2009 and 2010 Papi bounced back to produce a magnificent 2011. As did Ells and Papelbon and Scoot and Salty. Reddick showed he is developing plate discipline as well as pop. All these players were popular candidates for ‘put a fork in him’, whichever descendent of Attila coined that phrase. OTM is generally (not always) above and beyond disloyal carping, as objective and deep as NPR. So, here we can expect CC to rebound, the September deterioration of good hiiters,‘pitchers and fielders to be a weird aberation, that Bowden, Doubront, Weiland and Wilson have skills that, used properly, can help win games, that Lowrie’s Luck has to change and the real deal will emerge, just like Lester and Buchholz. BTW, Boston’s tale of 3 Sluggers (Gonzo, Youk, Papi) doesnt even include Ells, PD, Salty/Lava. I wish the vocal minority and theediots would stop with the “we will determine later if Ben’s first Winter Meeting is a success or failure,” They have no idea what machinations are going on at a 100 levels. Neither do we. But his work with Papi, Paps, Miller, Carlson, Duarte, Acevas, Bard, Reddick, Kalish, Youk, Magadan, Tuck, Bogar
and Valentine have been deftly done. This guy is good.

by GerryT on Dec 9, 2011 3:17 AM EST via mobile up reply actions  

HAHA

“objective and deep as NPR”!

When I hear that trumpet sound, I'm gonna rise right outta the ground. Ain't no grave can hold my body down.

by DocOne on Dec 9, 2011 3:58 AM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, I'm totally with you (except for that NPR bit)

but we need to get at least 2 good pitchers for a low amount of risk before I feel good about the team. And yes, those two pitchers might/should come from that Bowden/Doubront/Weiland/Tazawa group. I’m pulling for a trade for a young starter, however.

by revived0103 on Dec 9, 2011 5:00 AM EST up reply actions  

You

have one thing right. Having a manager with some balls and brains will help the team. Although, he looked foolish in discussing his talk with Beckert. He needs to close his mouth.

by Robert57 on Dec 12, 2011 3:40 PM EST up reply actions  

The Cardinals fleeced him over the last deal.

If you’re talking loyalty, they should have exceeded the reported Marlins’ 275/10 deal. Of course, people are going to say that the Cardinals have no such obligation.

In that case, Pujols has no obligation. He did what was best for himself, and I wager that anybody in this world (including me) would leave one work place for another if the new organization offered me 15.5% more. Loyalty works both ways, and the Cardinals were not interested.

Which is, to say, great for St. Louis. They have received the largest bargain in the MLB over the last 11 years for Pujols. Can’t feel too bad for them.

by frozendesert on Dec 9, 2011 2:43 AM EST reply actions  

good point

"Man you are one pathetic loser. No offense." - Lloyd Christmas

by Lloyd Christmas on Dec 9, 2011 2:47 AM EST up reply actions  

Actually, Pujols is as bad, if not WORSE than Damon

Deadspin has an awesome quote…

“People from other teams want to play in St. Louis and they’re jealous that we’re in St. Louis because the fans are unbelievable. So why would you want to leave a place like St. Louis to go somewhere else and make $3 or $4 more million a year? It’s not about the money. I already got my money. It’s about winning and that’s it. It’s about accomplishing my goal and my goal is to try to win.”

And that is exactly what he did, to the dollar. Look, I have no problem with people getting all the cash they can. My problem is all these assholes pretending like they give a shit about anything other than the money. Own it, say “Hey, these people gave me more, I play for money, not happy feelings, you would do the same”. At least then you could keep you’re dignity. All this yet prostitution is still illegal. Wierd

When I hear that trumpet sound, I'm gonna rise right outta the ground. Ain't no grave can hold my body down.

by DocOne on Dec 9, 2011 3:51 AM EST reply actions  

Here's the link

When I hear that trumpet sound, I'm gonna rise right outta the ground. Ain't no grave can hold my body down.

by DocOne on Dec 9, 2011 3:53 AM EST up reply actions  

Ugh, nevermind

I’m not smart enough to make it work…http://deadspin.com/5866517/a-little-pujols-math-to-infuriate-cardinals-fans

When I hear that trumpet sound, I'm gonna rise right outta the ground. Ain't no grave can hold my body down.

by DocOne on Dec 9, 2011 3:56 AM EST up reply actions  

First of all, I don’t think that (In fact, I’m 100% sure) that Albert would never say anything to the effect of (especially in 2009, when he still had 2 years left with the Cardinals), ‘I would most certainly never choose to play for St. Louis if another team offered me more money.’ He, and the other 98% of one-team athletes, would say exactly what Albert said. Every single athlete that represents and is the face of his franchise would say the exact same thing.

Second, a guy can change his mind over two years. Quite a few events have occurred in St. Louis over that period.

Third, remember that major league athletes are hounded for quotes every minute by journalists. They quite often might say things that they don’t fully believe (people lie? What a surprise!) do defend their reputation, especially if they’re the star player of their team.

Additionally,

John Mozeliak Nov. 16

“I don’t think we need to divorce ourselves from that,” Mozeliak told Crasnick. “The fact is, he’s an iconic player. He’s been the face of this organization for a long time. To deny that or fail to recognize it, I just don’t think you’re looking at it through the proper set of lenses.”

“I would like our fans to know that we tried our best to make Albert a lifetime Cardinal but unfortunately we were unable to make it happen,” said Cardinals owner Bill DeWitt Jr.

Really? The Cardinals’ payroll was 110 million this year. From 2000-2011, they’ve had a payroll inflation of 5% per year. Conservatively, let’s estimate that their payroll increases at a rate of 4% per year over the next ten years. From 2012-2021, that would give them a total payroll of $1,361,611,648 over the next ten years. A bump from their current offer (10/220) to the Angels accepted offer (10/254) would be 34 million over the life of the deal and would constitute 2.4% of their payroll over the next ten years.

That’s it. 2.4%.

If that’s the different between Bill DeWitt’s ‘best effort’ and ‘needed effort’ for the face of the organization who might have, arguably, an outside chance to be the best player ever to play baseball or at least in the top-5… well, that’s pathetic to me. And it would be completely understandable why Albert left.

by frozendesert on Dec 9, 2011 4:25 AM EST up reply actions  

Criticizing him based on this

Is assuming that he made his choice to leave St. Louis solely based off of the $$ involved. When, you and I will quite frankly never know if that was the case. We know that Miami offered more, so it was not JUST about the money despite what you are trying to say.

I have no idea why you bring up prostitution and try to equate him to one. What the hell does that have to do with anything? Quite frankly, even Cardinals fans aren’t being that f’ing petty.

by The Name is Dalton on Dec 9, 2011 8:18 AM EST up reply actions  

Or if you don't like the term "equating"

Then saying what he is doing is as bad or should be illegal. Or that prostitution should be legal if players are allowed to sign with any team they want to.

by The Name is Dalton on Dec 9, 2011 8:22 AM EST up reply actions  

One of my favourite things about your "commenting style"

is that you quite often comment…and then immediately follow up your thoughts with another comment.

It’s something that I’ve noticed. It’s very “signature” of you, so to speak.

Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.

@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
OTM | Silver Seven

by Bloggy on Dec 9, 2011 8:34 AM EST up reply actions  

Heh

Yeah, sometimes I go back and re-read what I wrote and say, “Well that’s kind of confusing” even when I proof read stuff before hitting “post”. It’s either that or I subconciously want to have conversations with myself.

Sorry if it gets annoying at all. It’s a habit I’m not likely to break.

by The Name is Dalton on Dec 9, 2011 8:59 AM EST up reply actions  

Not at all.

Like I said, I quite like it.

Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.

@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
OTM | Silver Seven

by Bloggy on Dec 9, 2011 9:13 AM EST up reply actions  

Haha good point about the prostitute thing

It made sense in my insomniac head at 2:30 this morning. I don’t know? The rest is dead on. I don’t think players owe anybody anything, including Damon way back when. I’d take the money too. The difference is I, personally, wouldn’t pretend. Every person has a duty to take care of themselves and their family first and foremost. Just because we can’t actually comprehend this kind of money, and because as fans we want our favorite players to stay, he would be foolish NOT to take the bigger contract.

When I hear that trumpet sound, I'm gonna rise right outta the ground. Ain't no grave can hold my body down.

by DocOne on Dec 9, 2011 3:28 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

I think it is pretty clear the Cardinals really did not want him

he saw that, and he left.

Can’t blame him or the Cardinals.

The 2011 Over the Monster Gedman League Fantasy Baseball Champion

I hate free agency

by gizmosandy on Dec 9, 2011 7:28 AM EST reply actions  

Rec'd

you took the words right out of my mouth…

by toonman on Dec 9, 2011 9:07 AM EST up reply actions  

Word up, Bloggy.

And just to add one last thing in favor of your first paragraph: it now looks like the Cards didn’t even offer 10 years—only 9 years with a vesting option. So they told the best player of our generation that he still had to earn his 10th year.

by Jake_W on Dec 9, 2011 10:34 AM EST up reply actions  

And their "Cardinal for Life" original offer was reportedly only 5 years.

Now, if that’s true (reported by his wife on a Christian radio station in Saint Louis, so I certainly hope she was being truthful)… that’s an insult of epic proportions. The Cardinals only think Pujols has 5 years left in his career? Really??

I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.

Wait ’til next year!

by AlohaSox on Dec 13, 2011 12:25 PM EST up reply actions  

I was thinking this last night...

but didn’t want to say it. Maybe I just didn’t want to get into an argument about this again with Ben.

Rec’d

"Man you are one pathetic loser. No offense." - Lloyd Christmas

by Lloyd Christmas on Dec 9, 2011 12:56 PM EST up reply actions  

Beautiful.

"If your happiness depends on Boston winning or losing, you have to get a life." Manny Somebody-or-other

by Tessie's Dad on Dec 9, 2011 3:41 PM EST up reply actions  

best post ever

Well said, Bloggy.

NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.

by mmmmm on Dec 10, 2011 9:38 AM EST via iPhone app up reply actions  

It's cool

I like the Crazy Canadian a lot too.

I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.

by TheLoneDavid on Dec 10, 2011 12:58 PM EST up reply actions  

I 1000% agree on the Pujols point but....

…Not on the ‘turning your back on your team in 2011’

They turned their backs on us. And management didn’t help by acting drunk Star Trek Admirals.

I watched til the end even though I knew what would happen 2 weeks out..well…surfed, checked scores…watched a little…watched MLB Network. OK I watched with my hands over my eyes! But i don’t blame anyone for checking out at the end. I said ‘fuck these guys’ a 100 times and walked away in disgust in September. They said the same thing apparently.

by Dale Sams on Dec 9, 2011 10:25 AM EST reply actions  

You're bitter at the 2011 Sox? That's understandable.

You “knew” they wouldn’t be pull it out? That’s understandable, too. But you watched with your hands over your eyes, which means you were still invested.

Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.

@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
OTM | Silver Seven

by Bloggy on Dec 9, 2011 10:29 AM EST up reply actions  

Adrian Gonzalez will out perform Pujols for the next 7 years

that is for sure. And he has a better contract.

The 2011 Over the Monster Gedman League Fantasy Baseball Champion

I hate free agency

by gizmosandy on Dec 9, 2011 6:26 PM EST reply actions  

And I would be a happy man if this comes true.

I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.

Wait ’til next year!

by AlohaSox on Dec 13, 2011 12:28 PM EST up reply actions  

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