Red Sox Need A Closer, And There Are Plenty To Choose From
by Marc Normandin on Dec 7, 2011 3:08 PM EST
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As we have discussed here for the last few months, both on the site and on the podcast, there are far more relievers available than there are jobs for those relievers. The closer market was flooded this off-season (although nobody thought to stop and tell Ruben Amaro this), meaning it was a buyer's market. In addition to the closers who left their teams as free agents, there were a number of set-up men available who were either former closers, or looking to become one -- Matt Capps, Francisco Rodriguez, etc.
In a problem that this country seems to be able to relate to right now, there were more people available for a job than there were jobs available. This means that, even if the market exploded for relievers initially (it did), patience would be rewarded, as someone would eventually end up having to make sacrifices in order to be employed.
Alex Speier covered this fairly in-depth earlier this afternoon over at WEEI, explaining that there are basically four teams left looking for a closer, but far more options than that remaining. In between Speier's piece and right now, the Rockies entered the fray, but the Padres left it, thanks to the reported Huston Street trade.
The Red Sox would like to get Andrew Bailey in their own trade for a closer, but that's just one of many options. Jon Heyman also reported they are in on Ryan Madson, who, with the right offer, would likely love to avoid accepting arbitration with the Phillies tonight -- especially since he won't be closing there in 2012. Madson will not get anything close to what the Phillies almost gave him, especially given that he is now fighting for one of the few remaining closer's jobs along with many others.
The main point is that there are plenty of options available to close, even if it seems like they are all being snatched off of the table by the Mets in the middle of the night. Patience will be rewarded, as lower-cost options will arise from the remaining market. As the Red Sox aren't one piece away from being finished this winter, that's a worthwhile goal -- even if it makes watching the winter meetings' proceedings more aggravating.
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Has Boston talking to Texas about Uehara and Lowrie’s name was mentioned. Uehara is on a 4 million dollar deal for 2012 only, has outstanding K/BB ratios and has closed as recently as 2010. Might be a nice stealth option at the back of the pen
I love Uehara
Twitter: @Marc_Normandin
by Marc Normandin on Dec 7, 2011 3:29 PM EST up reply actions
Uehara
This guy has mind boggling numbers. The only concern is where he has pitched I.E. Pressure. Not having any in Baltimore seemed to agree with him. He was not as effective with Texas. But, he could have been tired. Since the prevailing opinion is saying, don’t spend any money,this guy could be someone who comes cheaply. Another guy,who only pitched 26 innings last year is T. Saito. I’m still trying to figure out why they let him go after one effecive year. He has a career ERA of 2.12. Yes,he is a FA,but, he should be fairly inexpensive.If healthy, and that is a big if,he should be an effective closer,since,once again, opinion says that any reliever can close. Thus,you offer a reasonable package to Texas and bring Uehara aboard. Bard,then,becomes a starter,part of the bullpen, or trade bait.If both Bard and Ace become starters,you would have Uehara,Saito,Morales Wheeler, and Jenks/Albers. Not a bad pen,and a very good rotaion if Bard and Ace can do it effectivly.Personally, I would keep Bard and Ace in the pen, get Saito or Uehara, and try to pry Gio away from Oakland. Gio ,to me, would be worth a package of Bard,Reddick,and Doubront. Throw in Lowrie, and they throw in Bailey or Balour, It’s done.
We have this kid
Throws 100 mph heat, he’s closed a few games for us before. Costs us nothing in prospects to keep and is under team team control for a bit. I think he’d be perfect for the role. BARD! That’s his name, why isn’t he getting consideration? Oh yeah, that’s right, they want to take this kid, who seems to me to have broken down the last couple of years after 60 something innings and make him a starter.
I’m really not enjoying the Cherington era so far, he seems to be in no hurry to do anything but bring Miller back. I think with the money situation as it is, it doesn’t make sense to make a big investment in a reliever, to me a reliever is the worst possible investment you can make.
Joe, the reason we shout "WE ARE" and the reason the answer will always be "PENN STATE"
They haven't made a big investment in a reliever
And are in fact attempting to turn a reliever into something that would be a big investment.
Twitter: @Marc_Normandin
by Marc Normandin on Dec 7, 2011 3:29 PM EST up reply actions
Bailey would be a big investment
Madson too, I think Uehara’s what, $4M salary, is too big an investment for what this team’s needs are.
Joe, the reason we shout "WE ARE" and the reason the answer will always be "PENN STATE"
Needs
This team just lost Jon Papelbon. They need another decent reliever if Bard ends up closing.
Take a chance on Jenks coming back
Or transition Tazawa or Weiland or Doubront or Miller into the pen. I’m sure one or more of them could actually end up being a decent reliever and be the set up guy. If we have something resembling health in the rotation Aceves would be intriguing as a strong pen arm.
Joe, the reason we shout "WE ARE" and the reason the answer will always be "PENN STATE"
That's my plan... Bard for closer, Weiland for Bard's 2011 role.
And if Bobby Jenks comes back all slim, powerful and half the pitcher we thought we were signing, even better…
I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.
Wait ’til next year!
Investment
They supposedly have only 8 mill to play with. (Wink). That being said, half of that might bring Uehara,and would not be wasted money.Say it 50 times. “The bullpen is important” Don’t forget that one of V’s biggest assets is his experience with Japaneze players,which is why they are really missing the boat with Darvish. I think his numbers will translate very well in MLB.
Maybe we could trade for Bailey
and make him a starter.
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
OTM | Silver Seven
No, just no.
If we are going to give up valuable trade pieces, let’s get a real starter please.
John Lackey: Boston hates you
Indeed
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
OTM | Silver Seven
Agreed
I have no issue with trying out Bard as closer, but they still need at least one other power arm in the bullpen with Bard moving to closer, espcially with Aceves going to the rotation.
I feel a bit funny saying this, but I don’t want to trade Lowrie for a middle reliever; as part of a package to get Gio Gonzalez or another good starter, another story. With gimpy Youk and Scutaro, Lowrie can be a valuable utility player and help keep these veterans fresh; that is when Lowrie is not on the trainers table, which is most of his career.
I think by adding Doubtront, Tazawa, Weiland or even Miller to the pen
Would firm it up more than well enough. I’d rather devote all remaining resources to starting pitching at this point.
Joe, the reason we shout "WE ARE" and the reason the answer will always be "PENN STATE"
but you do need GOOD relief pitchers.
Not saying those guys won’t be, just that they never have been, and there are multiple sure things on the market.
As far as I'm concerned there really isn't such a thing as a sure thing anymore.
And spending $6M (yearly cost of a GOOD reliever) when that’s half of what you’ve got left for 60 innings of work is just dumb when any one of those guys I listed could pretty easily become a GOOD relief pitcher and we have them all under contract already.
Joe, the reason we shout "WE ARE" and the reason the answer will always be "PENN STATE"
I know, I'm all for cheap homegrown pitching depth.
It always seems that’s where you find consistent pitching.
$$ Per Inning
You should never evaluate the worth of a pitcher by dollars per inning. It’s’a whole different role,and equally as impotrtant as your starters. More so then ever, with pitchers throwing only 6 or 7 innings. They gave Jenks 6 million for two years and got nothing. Kelly Downs,with his microscopic ERA and experience in the division, could have been had for 5 mill per,over 3 years. Well worth it,by comparison to what they eventually settled for.
I think relief pitching is so volatile
That there really aren’t alot of sure things, especially with whats left on the market. I would like them to add an arm or two, but I think they need to find out who is filling the starting pitching slots first. They are just more important, especially to this team which had a serious, serious problem last year with a low number of innings pitched by the rotation. If we get a couple starters who are typically only 5-6 inning guys, then we probably need to go look for another long man who can go 2-3 innings like Aceves.
If we get a workhorse who might not be AS good but can go 7+, then it expands the list of relievers we could go for.
by The Name is Dalton on Dec 7, 2011 8:25 PM EST up reply actions
We will especially need another long man
Maybe even a sixth starter who is willing to start out in the bullpen if Bard is going to be given a chance to start.
by The Name is Dalton on Dec 7, 2011 8:32 PM EST up reply actions
You know you just asked for Wakefield to come back right?
Joe, the reason we shout "WE ARE" and the reason the answer will always be "PENN STATE"
I'm not confident in Doubront...
… after how he showed up to Spring Training last year, when he was theoretically in line to end up in the rotation.
If that’s what he does when he has a chance to be on the Opening Day roster and needs to earn it, what’s he going to do when it’s already given to him?
I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.
Wait ’til next year!
Well, my thoughts there are
even fat Doubront is better than Wake or Miller.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
Hey why not!
Him and Bobby V can hit the early bird specials together and get the Senior discount.
by The Name is Dalton on Dec 7, 2011 8:50 PM EST up reply actions
I am, of course, joking.
For the record. Love Wakefield, but we need to fill the pitching staff with others if possible.
by The Name is Dalton on Dec 7, 2011 8:51 PM EST up reply actions
Wakefield
I hope he is gone for good, but I still expect him to be at S.T. That being said,there is one role he might be effective at,and that is as a 9th inning,bases empty closer. His goofy pitch might fool hitters for one inning,and he has done it before with some success.But, the Sox would put him back in the same old role, so I don’t want him.
dead sox
the sox are not going to go anywhere fast with valentine as skipper they havent made any trades and it does not look like there will be any in the near future and it does not look like big ben is going to do anything without lucky lucciano on his back
Patience, my friend.
John Lackey: Boston hates you
It’s not Bobby’s fault. Cherington is like watching grass grow. OBTW, Saito is out there. Career ERA of 2.12. Could probably be had for 3 mill. Six to eight teams are in on him, but not the Sox.
Am I mixing him up with someone else?
Didn’t we have Saito at one point?
I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.
Wait ’til next year!
We did.
2009…2.56 ERA in 56 innings…not sure on his advanced metrics.
by The Name is Dalton on Dec 7, 2011 8:56 PM EST up reply actions
It seemed legit
But largely because we never used him in any high leverage situations, he only went in when a game was decided.
Joe, the reason we shout "WE ARE" and the reason the answer will always be "PENN STATE"
Right, that's what I remember.
We also, essentially, let him go, right?
I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.
Wait ’til next year!
He went to the Braves along with Wagner.
I think we got someone baller for him though.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
by TheLoneDavid on Dec 7, 2011 11:14 PM EST up reply actions
I kind of got the feeling Tito wasn't a fan of his.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
by TheLoneDavid on Dec 7, 2011 11:15 PM EST up reply actions
Tito and Saito
I am pretty sure you are right about that. Tito had an obsession with Wake. I have said this before, but it’s worth repeating. Tito’s desire to have Wakefield on the team last year, literally cost them a place in the P.S. Sent to Pawtucket untill mid May, were Aceves and Rich Hill. Hill was healthy in April, and could have meant the difference in a win or two., Aceves,instead of Wakefield, during that six week period, surely would have meant more wins. Tito is still talking about how valuble Timmy is, but Bobby is smarter then that.
no I think Tito just didn't like the fact
that he couldn’t use him more than every other day since he was coming off surgery
Wagner
I dont know what we got for Billy, but he has one more monster season left.They let him walk. Pap and Wagner,together for a whole season, would have almost surely meant a division title, at the least.
There are these things called "periods." You should familiarize yourself with them.
We can work on capitalization and fashioning a coherent argument later.
I still use periods when I text.
And capital letters. And actual grammar.
It’s only in OTM that my English degree disappears… I get spun up about the Sox, and none of my writing is coherent.
I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.
Wait ’til next year!
Most of the people I know who are utterly useless typers are in their 40s
and never adapted. Just saying.
grammer dum
u no wut i think chet i think ur rite and i think dead sox is funny thing 2 say its like ur saying the redsox r dead
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
OTM | Silver Seven
Bedard
Count him gone. Signed with Pittsburg. Should do well in the NL.I would have told the Red Sox but they were asleep in their suite.
Our bullpen is confusing me
Apparently Cherington doesn’t buy the concept that a lefty reliever or two is OK, especially with half the games at Fenway. Our pen, as it stands, contains:
Doubront, Morales, Miller, now Jesse Carlson?
Are we building the games first lefty-only pen?
He thinks they're pitching to our lefty-only line up?
I know, I know… not quite as many this year as last year and we hit LHPs just fine, but still…
I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.
Wait ’til next year!
Maybe he's thinking like we have been.
Use Weiland, Bowden (if he’s not traded), maybe Wilson and if the rotation can be filled out via trade or FA, you have Bard and Aceves as righties.
Ben Cherington MIND FREAK
Joe, the reason we shout "WE ARE" and the reason the answer will always be "PENN STATE"
Pirates fan here
Was wondering if there was any interest in acquiring Pirates closer Joel Hanrahan? If so, what would y’all be willing to part with?
The glare of the spotlight is harsh, and the pressure that success breeds immense. We revere our heroes, but expect much. And criticism can come as easily as praise.
Perspectives become reality.
Twitter: @shanecglass
We're kind of split 50/50 on the subject of acquiring a closer
I’m firmly in the “who needs a closer?” camp, while a lot of people are for Bard to close. Several others want to go out and get one, then make Bard a starter.
If we had to go get someone Hanrahan would not be my first choice, but would probably be cheaper prospect-wise than Bailey, whom I really don’t want.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
by TheLoneDavid on Dec 9, 2011 12:50 AM EST up reply actions
You Do Need a Closer
Don’t you remember ’03 with the bullpen by commitee aproach?It was train wreck. You need a closer, and a good one.
I would definitely be interested in Hanrahan
but I wouldn’t give a ton for a reliever. For a couple years of him… I’d probably give them Lowrie or Reddick. Probably not anything more in addition.
I want to hold onto Reddick
we don’t have the money to sign a good RFer, and Kalish is made of glass.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
by TheLoneDavid on Dec 9, 2011 11:50 AM EST up reply actions
Lowrie is an interesting subject
He’s created a lot of chatter over on our boards, with the crowd seemingly pretty split on whether or not they feel he will hit enough to be a starter in the MLB. Personally, I would would probably rather see Bard start if I were y’all (and anything you can do to bring down the Evil Empire is good in my books), but that’s just me. I feel like it’d be interesting at least.
Of course the Bucs haven’t been linked to any Hanrahan rumors, but I know most of us look at how crazy the market for closers is (Papelbon’s deal, etc), and see an opportunity to pounce.
The glare of the spotlight is harsh, and the pressure that success breeds immense. We revere our heroes, but expect much. And criticism can come as easily as praise.
Perspectives become reality.
Twitter: @shanecglass
the truth is on Lowrie
if he can stay healthy, he’ll hit well enough to be one of the best offensive shortstops in the game or a good third baseman (which is where he’s better defensively). He just has had so many injuries at this point.
Will he stay at SS if healthy?
It sounds like you’re saying decent at short, but elite at 3B
The glare of the spotlight is harsh, and the pressure that success breeds immense. We revere our heroes, but expect much. And criticism can come as easily as praise.
Perspectives become reality.
Twitter: @shanecglass
well honestly I'm a little on the fence
I would say that before this year, I thought he was below average but perfectly fine at short- and his bat more than made up for it; and above average at third (though I wouldn’t say elite).
This year he looked really a lot worse defensively. I would say he looked pretty much unacceptable at short and OK at third. I don’t know if his nerve bruise was somehow affecting his range, or he may have been trying to play it too safe to avoid getting hurt, or whatever, but it was definitely disappointing.
I think his best position is definitely third and that if healthy, he’d be an overall above average third baseman.
Interesting
I’ve always heard he was an excellent defender, and I didn’t hear a thing him struggling this year. Of course I was cut off from the world for about a month or so, so that doesn’t help. I’ll be following the Sox much more going forward though, so hopefully I’ll learn something
The glare of the spotlight is harsh, and the pressure that success breeds immense. We revere our heroes, but expect much. And criticism can come as easily as praise.
Perspectives become reality.
Twitter: @shanecglass
Hanrahan
He was nearly unhittable last year. I would hope, for your sake,that they would keep him. You can’t be in a rebuilding mode for ever.He would be just what the Doctor ordered for Boston. I see you picked up Bedard. If he pitches anything like he did last year, in the first half, you will get some wins and have good midseason trading chip.
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