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David Ortiz "Will Be Back"; Andrew Miller Re-Signed

ESPNBoston.com is reporting that a Red Sox source at the winter meetings believes David Ortiz will be back for 2012, "one way or another." Presumably, this means Ortiz would accept arbitration from the Red Sox, netting potentially upwards of $15 million for one year, or he would accept a two-year offer with a likely lower annual value.

This shouldn't be a huge surprise, as we have stated for months now that the market for Ortiz just didn't exist in a way where he would be pried away from the Red Sox. The cost was going to be prohibitive for most teams who need a DH, and with the Yankees focused elsewhere, and already full of bodies who can soak up DH at-bats, there was little reason for them to commit to Ortiz.

Ortiz has said he was willing to explore the market and play elsewhere, but indications from both him and others were that his preference was to stick in Boston. Between the pick a team would lose by signing Ortiz, and the money and years it would cost to pry him away, it's no wonder he is likely returning.

****

The Red Sox also re-signed Andrew Miller, avoiding arbitration. Jon Morosi reported the news, and while Miller is currently the fourth starter in terms of pitchers who are both starting pitchers and have not undergone Tommy John surgery in the last year, he is more likely to start the year at Triple-A, or out of the bullpen.

Update: Miller's deal is a major league one, and he is also out of options (hat tip, Brian MacPherson). He would need to clear waivers to head to the minors. This makes the back-of-the-bullpen role even more likely.

More Updating: Jon Morosi reports that Miller's deal is not guaranteed. The Red Sox can cut him if he continues to not show the improvement they would like, without any monetary worries.

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Interesting...
As closer openings vanish, lots of buzz at meetings that Ryan Madson could accept arb w/ #Phillies & KRod might have to do same w/ #Brewers

Stark Twitter

Definitely seems more like a threat for teams to up their contract offers. But it’ll be interesting to see which side(s) blinks first.

by South Coast Ghost on Dec 6, 2011 2:47 PM EST reply actions  

We talked about this on the podcast before the season even ended

There were far more pitchers available than there were jobs to close, and signing any reliever for big money was going to be dumb because of it. Thanks for the pick, Amaro.

by Marc Normandin on Dec 6, 2011 2:49 PM EST up reply actions  

While true

For those particular players it seems more like a negotiating tactic. Especially since they’re both repped by Boras

by South Coast Ghost on Dec 6, 2011 3:00 PM EST up reply actions  

However, Madsen going back to the Phillies as a negotiating tactic?

The Phillies don’t want him, right? They have to offer arbitration to get compensation for him when he leaves?

Just wondering how that makes other teams more interested in offering him a bigger deal, rather than make the Phillies worry about having him and Papelbon on the roster in 2012.

I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.

Wait ’til next year!

by AlohaSox on Dec 7, 2011 6:03 PM EST up reply actions  

Well

If another team wants Madson, and they make him an offer and he threatens to accept arbitration, then the other team will have to up their bid in order to get him to sign.

Sure, it probably makes the Phillies worried to an extent (not sure what he would get in Arb.) but if the Red Sox were desperate for him, they would need to up their offer in order to get him. I think that’s what South Coast Ghost meant. If I’m not mistaken, he/she was saying that with these two in particular it is an empty threat because neither has a chance to close for their teams (barring injuries to Pap/Axford) and thus at the end of next year they’ll likely be in a similar situation. They aren’t going to increase their value over what it is now by being set-up men for the next year and at best can hope to maintain it and pray there are more closer openings next year.(in my opinion)

It’s a risk for them, especially K-Rod who has stated that he wants to end his career with the most Saves ever. He wants to be a closer, plain and simple.

by The Name is Dalton on Dec 7, 2011 8:14 PM EST up reply actions  

Oh, right... that makes sense.

Forgot Axford was with the Brewers too, so neither of these guys wants to stay put…

I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.

Wait ’til next year!

by AlohaSox on Dec 7, 2011 8:46 PM EST up reply actions  

"...while Miller is currently the fourth starter..."

This is the most terrifying sentence fragment I’ve ever seen.

by Tarrsk on Dec 6, 2011 3:04 PM EST reply actions  

How about we instead hope for a good team?

Which will never in a million years involve Aceves, Miller or Bard starting for us.

by Sean O on Dec 6, 2011 7:14 PM EST up reply actions  

If we have to rely on Bard as starter

then we are F’d, royally. Not even counting the fact that BOBBY JENKS would be our closer on opening day.

by Sean O on Dec 6, 2011 7:18 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, when I got to that part in the thought process in the other article...

… it made me sick to my stomach.

So, tell me again… if we leave Bard in the bullpen, he is the closer, right? Not Jenks, right? Even though the deal we signed with Jenks suggested that he’d be the first to replace Papelbon if Papelbon needed to be replaced, right?

I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.

Wait ’til next year!

by AlohaSox on Dec 7, 2011 6:01 PM EST up reply actions  

I think Jenks's whole "having my own gravitational pull" thing

sort of negated being first on the list of backup closers.

I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.

by TheLoneDavid on Dec 7, 2011 7:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Dodgers near to getting Harang

both Capuano and Harang are nice back end compliments to a rotation…..shame they are not going to be the back end compliments to the Red Sox rotation.

Also Rockies acquired Slowey from Minnesota for a PTBNL

by BobZupcic on Dec 6, 2011 4:04 PM EST reply actions  

Slowey in Coors Field? :O

That’ll be interesting to see.

by Tarrsk on Dec 6, 2011 4:06 PM EST up reply actions  

I am actually happy to hear that Harang isn't coming

Would be OK with Capuano in some ways. But I would have no faith in Harang.

by The Name is Dalton on Dec 6, 2011 9:48 PM EST up reply actions  

I don’t want Miller on my team

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by Marisa Ingemi on Dec 6, 2011 4:12 PM EST reply actions  

I BELIEVE THAT WE WILL WIN!

I BELIEVE THAT WE WILL WIN!

GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO RED SOX!

Love the Jazz, Utes, and BoSox.

bigbenstechnicalfoul.blogspot.com

by BigBenSportsGuy on Dec 6, 2011 4:20 PM EST reply actions  

He's not

I was prepared for a quiet offseason as well. Still think the team is good, can be made better with some complimentary pieces.

by South Coast Ghost on Dec 6, 2011 5:14 PM EST up reply actions  

2/5 of the starting rotation from last year will not be playing this year

Our all-star right fielder not only sucked last year, he’s now gone for good. Our best bullpen piece is gone, we have one lefty in the bullpen, we have no backup catcher or 4th outfielder. We also only have about $15 million to spend ASSUMING we manage to sign our all-star designated hitter. Those are just the problems we absolutely have to address this offseason.

Other problems facing the 2012 Red Sox include: Can Jarrod Saltalamacchia continue to be the starting catcher? Will Clay Buchholz recover from BREAKING HIS BACK. How will even-year Josh Beckett play? Will Carl Crawford bounce back? Can Jed Lowrie stay healthy? Will this be the year where we wake up and realize that Kevin Youkilis cannot play third base without hurting himself? Will Jon Lester overcome his April woes? If Aceves or Bard move to the rotation, how bad will they suck? Will Josh Reddick be able to hold down Right Field? How many of our bullpen arms are going down in flames this year? How can we get more pitching depth? Can Ortiz keep playing like Ortiz? Is Adrian’s shoulder finally healthy?

I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.

by TheLoneDavid on Dec 6, 2011 5:35 PM EST up reply actions  

The 2/5 of the starting rotation from last year that will not be playing this year was terrible in 2011

Our all star right fielder sucked last year, so replacing him with Kalish/ Reddick is probably a wash. Also, we won 90 games last year and missed the playoffs by one game.

Am I saying that the Red Sox are a lock for the 2012 postseason? No, of course not. This team, as constructed right now in December 2011, has some significant holes. But even with those holes, we’re a good team. If we can patch the holes reasonably well (not out of the question even with the limited available budget), the 2012 Red Sox have a good chance of being a powerhouse team.

by Tarrsk on Dec 6, 2011 5:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Some of those problems are overblown.

If I recall, we only had one lefty in the pen at a time last year too. We didn’t miss out on the playoffs last year primarily because we only had 1 lefty. Lavarnway can certainly be the backup catcher and McDonald can be the 4th OF if we need him to be (even if you don’t like him), the Sox have shown they think Kalish is major league ready, if he’s healthy (always a question) I can’t imagine he’d spend much time at all in AAA if we need him, Lin could get a look as a defensive replacement too. RF/4th OF isn’t a position we have to look very far outside the organization to fix.

There are a lot of questions, but they’re the same questions every organization has to answer, I mean, what if Matt Moore get’s hit by a meteor this winter? Are the Rays screwed? What if Robbie Cano decides to go full time with his secret hobby of numismatics and quit baseball forever? My point it, you can ask a million questions to make things seem worse than they are, but they really aren’t that bad once you take some of the ridiculousness out, like Beckett actually gives two and a half shits about whether the year is cleanly divisible by 2 or not.

The team as it stands is far better off than most of the league. Get Ortiz and a bunch of cheap SP depth and the rest is just tinkering.

Joe, the reason we shout "WE ARE" and the reason the answer will always be "PENN STATE"

by Rogue Nine on Dec 6, 2011 6:10 PM EST up reply actions  

No, because you can't really seem to comment on anything else

Objectively last year we were a 90 win team. Not good enough, obviously, but not a bad team.

by South Coast Ghost on Dec 6, 2011 7:21 PM EST up reply actions  

With a 100th+ percentile performance from Ells

and Beckett. This team may be salvageable, but i’ll be damned if I see a path to get there. No money, no prospects, no pitching.

by Sean O on Dec 6, 2011 7:24 PM EST up reply actions  

With a 50th- percentile performance from CC

we had one of the best offenses in the MLB, even with several guys having suck, well-below-career-norm seasons.

Regression works both ways.

NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.

by mmmmm on Dec 7, 2011 1:58 AM EST up reply actions  

in the same way that there's zero indication

that Ellsbury is not the best player in baseball.

by wolf9309 on Dec 8, 2011 2:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Well said.

Cannot believe Crawford’s 2012 will look like his 2011.

If it does, though… then there will be cause for concern.

I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.

Wait ’til next year!

by AlohaSox on Dec 8, 2011 6:57 PM EST up reply actions  

We are certainly not a bad team.

We are a flawed team.

Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.

@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
OTM | Silver Seven

by Bloggy on Dec 7, 2011 11:54 AM EST up reply actions  

oh seany boy

i have missed the sunshine that you bring to these forums.

Love the Jazz, Utes, and BoSox.

bigbenstechnicalfoul.blogspot.com

by BigBenSportsGuy on Dec 7, 2011 11:59 AM EST up reply actions  

The Yankees would say quite well actually.

Joe, the reason we shout "WE ARE" and the reason the answer will always be "PENN STATE"

by Rogue Nine on Dec 6, 2011 7:18 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes

You’re absolutely correct, previous failures absolutely have an impact on future potential ones, especially when the pitching coach, manager, general manager and training department have all been replaced since said previous failure. My apologies. How could I miss your obvious logic.

Joe, the reason we shout "WE ARE" and the reason the answer will always be "PENN STATE"

by Rogue Nine on Dec 6, 2011 7:37 PM EST up reply actions  

That tone helps, of course

Cheap SPs are not easy to find. The Yankees either did a stupendous job or got crazy lucky last season. Theo wasn’t my favorite, but I don’t think he magically was terrible at finding good bargain pitching. I think it’s something that is very difficult to do.

The fact that we have never received any appreciable value from low-money SP signings is not a good sign, regardless of who is in charge. And to that point, Theo is gone, not most of baseball ops.

And, how in god’s name does the manager or training staff factor into it?

by Sean O on Dec 6, 2011 8:07 PM EST up reply actions  

I figured I'd touch on all possible culprits of bargain signing failings in one swipe

I think they tend to be a luck thing, we’ve been unlucky, I don’t think we’re bad at it and I don’t think the Yankees are good t it, we’re at a position where we don’t have the money for big pitching additions, but I think we can make many small ones and play the numbers, the first two notable ones didn’t work out, but that doesn’t mean that any we buy this year won’t. With all the people that have left in the last few years, Mills, Hoyer, Farrell, Theo, and who they took with them I’d have to imagine there aren’t a lot of people around who may have caused Smoltz or Penny to fail, if indeed it is a systematic thing.

Joe, the reason we shout "WE ARE" and the reason the answer will always be "PENN STATE"

by Rogue Nine on Dec 6, 2011 8:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Sadly, I think the list of failures is longer than Smoltz or Penny.

Andrew Miller, for instance, probably falls into that category last year, along with Kevin Millwood and a few others.

I agree with you… past failures don’t project future failures, but I do have to agree with Sean too… I don’t see a lot of Freddy Garcia/Bartolo Colon 2011 seasons with the Yankees out there to point to. (Especially considering Colon himself belongs on our list of failures too.)

Tough to do, and watching the Jonathan Sanchez deal go by without us involved, and other reasonable priced back end starters disappearing, I’m not optimistic on how we’re doing so far…

I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.

Wait ’til next year!

by AlohaSox on Dec 7, 2011 6:10 PM EST up reply actions  

It's clear to me

that the Red Sox are the only team in the East not employing their own witch doctor. How else do you explain Carl Crawford, Garcia, Colon, and Farnsworth?

I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.

by TheLoneDavid on Dec 7, 2011 7:26 PM EST up reply actions  

Lackey...

Joe, the reason we shout "WE ARE" and the reason the answer will always be "PENN STATE"

by Rogue Nine on Dec 7, 2011 7:42 PM EST up reply actions  

Though to be fair, we did pull Aceves off the scrap heap

Joe, the reason we shout "WE ARE" and the reason the answer will always be "PENN STATE"

by Rogue Nine on Dec 7, 2011 7:43 PM EST up reply actions  

Sean is complaining about 'tone'?????

LOL!

NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.

by mmmmm on Dec 7, 2011 1:59 AM EST up reply actions  

When I act like a bitch, I expect others to act like bitches

When i’m actually making a valid point, it should be dealt with.

by Sean O on Dec 7, 2011 10:31 PM EST up reply actions  

There really aren't many teams

That don’t have this amount of questions that could be brought up.

by The Name is Dalton on Dec 6, 2011 9:49 PM EST up reply actions  

so?

the point is to get the best team, not to get the best team for the cheapest.

by wolf9309 on Dec 8, 2011 2:54 PM EST up reply actions  

There is positive?

Other than Dustin Pedroia and Jon Lester?

by Sean O on Dec 7, 2011 10:32 PM EST up reply actions  

Exactly what Sean said

If you’re going to make a “stupid post that only looks at the positives” then make it, don’t be a bitch and just mock my post without making points of your own.

I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.

by TheLoneDavid on Dec 7, 2011 11:18 PM EST up reply actions  

sorry mang

but you did only look at the negatives as if that’s all there is.

by revived0103 on Dec 8, 2011 10:46 AM EST up reply actions  

If we sign a solid pitcher, and get some bullpen help...

We’re the best team in baseball

Check out my blog at http://conor-soxrox.blogspot.com

by Conor Duffy on Dec 6, 2011 8:33 PM EST up reply actions  

five solid pitchers, multiple bullpen arms

and backup everything, since our entire “greatest team in baseball” is about as certain to make it through the season intact as a balloon in a sharp object warehouse.

I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.

by TheLoneDavid on Dec 7, 2011 11:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Be nice. He is, in fact on the team.

Surprised that he iznt in AAA as potentially solid depth? Me too. Has he been pitching anywhere to improve his aim???? He takes a pen spot away from someone … Wheeler? Bowden? Weiland? Wake? Albers? Wouldnt it be something if both Acevas and Bard move to the rotation? Where is Bedard in all this talk. We traded good kids for him that we could have used for Bailey, etc. Unless we keep him he winds up as a very very expensive above average pitcher that walked away.

by GerryT on Dec 6, 2011 4:24 PM EST reply actions  

Miller's apparently working out this offseason with Cliff Lee

Although it probably won’t mean a damn thing once the season starts. But it’s a nice story.

by South Coast Ghost on Dec 6, 2011 4:26 PM EST up reply actions  

Well, before Lee won the Cy Young, he got sent to AAA...

So, he got demoted after looking really good one year, and horrible the next. His rebound into form could be a great model for Miller. We can all hold out hope it helps!

I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.

Wait ’til next year!

by AlohaSox on Dec 7, 2011 6:12 PM EST up reply actions  

Oh for fuck's sake...

PITTSBURGH? WE LOST BEDARD TO PITTSBURGH

I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.

Wait ’til next year!

by AlohaSox on Dec 7, 2011 6:14 PM EST up reply actions  

Well, on a one year deal...

… his numbers will look a lot better in Pittsburgh than they will in Boston, by virtue of moving to the NL…

and, as someone else pointed out in another piece, the Pirates are likely to be sellers at the trade deadline, meaning Bedard gets shipped for more prospects and ends up on a playoff contender as well.

I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.

Wait ’til next year!

by AlohaSox on Dec 7, 2011 8:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Good points

I hadn’t thought of the trade chip part with him. I think that was likely the thought process of the Padres when they went out and got Huston Street as well. His numbers in Petco are likely to look good, so when the trade deadline comes there will inevitably be teams looking to add a reliever or two and he will almost certainly be made available.

by The Name is Dalton on Dec 7, 2011 9:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Ortiz update(?)
Source: Sox offered Ortiz 2-yr deal worth $18 mill. He’s seeking 2 yrs $25 mill. Ortiz hasn’t decided on arbitration yet. Made $12.5 in 2011

-ESPNJoeyMac

He could potentially make ~$14 through arbitration if he accepts.

by South Coast Ghost on Dec 6, 2011 4:38 PM EST reply actions  

David Ortiz's contract, TLD style

two year deal with a club option, relatively front loaded. 2012: $13 million 2013: $10 million 2014 option: 9.5 million.

I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.

by TheLoneDavid on Dec 6, 2011 5:07 PM EST up reply actions  

but

why would the Red Sox offer him that, rather than just $14 millionish this year and nothing afterwards?

by wolf9309 on Dec 6, 2011 11:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Because it guarantees stability next year at a lower price than he'd get.

Also keeps the AAV of the contract down in regards to the tax. The AAV is something like $11 mil

I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.

by TheLoneDavid on Dec 7, 2011 1:47 AM EST up reply actions  

well the AAV would be

$11.5 million + (half of the buyout of his option/2)

If I were the Red Sox, I would much, much prefer to commit $14 million this year than to offer $13 million this year AND $11 million next year. Much different commitment size. Doesn’t really guarantee stability because what if last year was flukey or he is genuinely regressing this year? In return for the stability, if I were the Sox, I’d probably max out at 2 years, $10 mill/year. If I were Papi, I’d accept arbitration there, but I wouldn’t offer more as the team. The last thing I want is a one dimensional player on the roster who is losing his one dimension.

And I say all that as probably one of the biggest Papi fans here.

by wolf9309 on Dec 7, 2011 3:17 AM EST up reply actions  

Interesting rumor:
Sports Nippon reported today that highest bid for SS Nakajima will be Red Sox. #Redsox

YYHochi twitter

Sports Nippon is a sports magazine/online news service in Japan.

by South Coast Ghost on Dec 6, 2011 4:52 PM EST reply actions  

Yahoo! is reporting that the Yanks won his rights.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;ylt=ArfCg4K30NDm9hIDkfk7lYRvLYF?slug=ap-yankees-nakajima

I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.

Wait ’til next year!

by AlohaSox on Dec 7, 2011 6:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Wow, a major league deal for a bullpen role on a guy who has trouble throwing strikes?

by OzTiger on Dec 6, 2011 5:08 PM EST via mobile reply actions  

Well, Ortiz WILL be back apparently:
David Ortiz plans to accept Boston’s arbitration offer and remain with the Red Sox, reports Enrique Rojas of ESPN Deportes (Spanish link). In that case, Ortiz would be in line for a one-year deal with a slight raise on last year’s $12.5MM salary.

-Trade Rumors

by South Coast Ghost on Dec 6, 2011 7:16 PM EST reply actions  

Even considering the weak market

This is pretty shocking. Surprised he didn’t take the 2 year deal. Next season the market could be even smaller.

by ritz on Dec 6, 2011 8:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Perhaps

But with arb he’ll most likely get 13 million. If he stays healthy he should be able to get a five year deal or more in 2013

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by brogshan on Dec 6, 2011 10:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes, 5 million +

Quantum Woodworking: Hand crafted pens, bottle stoppers, bowls and more.
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by brogshan on Dec 7, 2011 8:44 AM EST up reply actions  

For the record

I am 100% down with Miller to the pen. He wasn’t a world beater in his first inning, but I would be curious to see what he does without having to worry about saving his arm for 4-5 innings.

by Sean O on Dec 6, 2011 7:17 PM EST reply actions  

Miller is a waste for the money

better off giving Wake that million bucks, and I don’t want either back.

The 2011 Over the Monster Gedman League Fantasy Baseball Champion

I hate free agency

by gizmosandy on Dec 6, 2011 8:51 PM EST reply actions  

I cant stomach Wakefield giving up 5 and 6 runs by 3rd inning

…that hunt for 200 left me scarred and drooling…..at least Miller had a shot at going 4+ innings

"You're either carrying a spear, or running from it"

by BigSpearDiplomacy on Dec 6, 2011 10:32 PM EST reply actions  

Present Value

Yr 1 14 Million, Yr 2 4 Million is worth significantly more than 9, 9 split as well, for those wondering why he accepts arbitration

by 7-9nomore on Dec 6, 2011 11:51 PM EST reply actions  

um why?

not that I’m questioning why he’d accept arbitration, but why is that going to be a significant difference?

by wolf9309 on Dec 7, 2011 3:18 AM EST up reply actions  

Money now is always better than money later

Quantum Woodworking: Hand crafted pens, bottle stoppers, bowls and more.
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by brogshan on Dec 7, 2011 8:47 AM EST up reply actions  

This is true

But even if he got a 10% investment return on the $5 million (in this scenario) for the year that is about a $500,000 difference…not counting the inflation affect (which, again in this scenario is a year’s worth)

Which is a significant amount for those of us here, but for someone who will have made over $100 million by the time this $18 million (in theory) is received over the next two years? Probably not so much. If he accepts arbitration, I am more inclined to believe that he thinks he will be good enough this year to get a high enough arbitration amount to go over the $18 million (over 2 years) in this scenario.

At any rate, the arbitration offer might not even come next year. But if he accepts now, I doubt it will be because he’ll get a few million more this year. I think it’ll be because he believes he will have a good enough year to get an arbitration offer next year.

by The Name is Dalton on Dec 7, 2011 9:55 AM EST up reply actions  

If things go the way they look like they're going

Albert freaking Pujols is going to be the first baseman for the Miami frickin Marlins.

What the hell is going on?!

Who ever put their money on THEM winning the sweepstakes a year ago, congrats on your billion dollars.

Joe, the reason we shout "WE ARE" and the reason the answer will always be "PENN STATE"

by Rogue Nine on Dec 7, 2011 1:05 AM EST reply actions  

Well kinda makes some logical sense

Latino based community, new stadium, etc…..

by BobZupcic on Dec 7, 2011 7:23 AM EST up reply actions  

That and after being called out by the league

and now being investigated by the SEC for lying to the city officials to get the stadium funded by taxpayers, they basically NEED to spend a lot of money to show the citizens and fan(s) that they are serious about spending money on the team and not filling Loria’s pockets.

by The Name is Dalton on Dec 7, 2011 8:36 AM EST up reply actions  

Miller and Ortiz

Miller is still young and has a sound arm which means there is still potential there. If they can just get him to start throwing strikes he could actually be a steal at what they gave him. He showed signs of what might be in short stretches last season so hopefully a new pitching coach can get into his head and straighten him out. He’d be a solid fifth starter if he starts throwing strikes. As for Ortiz its a crap shoot. He’ll get $15 million through arbitration and then we’ll all see what happens this season. I’d rather see them go this route with him because if they sign him to a 2 year deal and he’s a bust they’re stuck with that $14 million or so in 2013 as well. The market for starting pitching was never really that deep this off season and I still contend that the only way the Sox will get a solid starter is if they trade for one and that will likely mean Youkilis and either sign a 3rd baseman or let the rookie have a shot.

by Jillian on Dec 7, 2011 1:57 AM EST reply actions  

Miller would probably be a great second starter

if he could throw strikes. But he can’t. He’s established that with a whole bundle of different pitching coaches. Converting him to a reliever is worth a shot and, who knows, it might work, but it’s doubtful. I don’t have a problem with the deal, as it’s non-guaranteed, but I wouldn’t count on him making an impact on the major league roster, especially with 2 lefties, Doubront and Morales, already in the pen.

I’m not sure there is a pitcher that Youk could help us acquire who would help the team more than Youk in comparison to the third basemen that are free agents (And when I say that, I mean I’m fairly sure there isn’t). Also, Middlebrooks is just plain not ready for the majors. Hopefully he’ll be a great major league player, but at the bare, bare minimum, he needs another half year, and probably closer to a year and a half in the minors to work on his pitch recognition and discipline.

by wolf9309 on Dec 7, 2011 3:23 AM EST up reply actions  

miller's splits last year

as a reliever are promising. he absolutely needs to find the strike zone and stay there. apparently one single conversation with nolan ryan turned randy johnson from a hard throwing reliever who couldn’t find the strike zone into a hall of famer. maybe we could set something up. this seems like a non-signing. there is literally no risk. so what is the problem?
youk is a moneyball moneyshot. it seems like he could anchor a trade with oakland for gio g. youk is one of my favorite players of all time, so i am not keen on getting rid of him, i am just addressing wolf’s opinion. aramis ramirez would fill the need but would be expensive, lowrie and aviles feasted on lefties last year.
again, i don’t think youk should be traded. i bet that we field the team that we fielded last year minus drew and varitek.

by 3run_bomb on Dec 7, 2011 10:56 AM EST up reply actions  

You WAS a prime moneyball player

now that he’s making $12-13 million a year, that’s not the case anymore. Oakland is shedding salary like crazy and is not going to be interested. They’ll be interested in players that can still help them win in 4 or so years.

by wolf9309 on Dec 7, 2011 11:20 AM EST up reply actions  

As Wolf said

Youk was desired by Beane when he was a very underrated (by the league as a whole) 3B/1B prospect who was overlooked and therefore could’ve been gotten on the cheap. Now, his price is prohibitive for them.

Their stadium situation is up in the air, and they are trying desperately to get the league and the SFG to let them move to San Jose. Until they get that situation worked out, they’ve said or at least strongly indicated that they will not be taking on payroll. They wouldn’t be discussing moving Bailey, Cahill or Gio if that was not the case. At least in my opinion they wouldn’t. It’s not like any of those guys will be making $12-15 million a year.

by The Name is Dalton on Dec 7, 2011 12:59 PM EST up reply actions  

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