Un-Previewing The Winter Meetings
The Winter Meetings are an exciting time for baseball. There is something in the air over Dallas, though it's as likely to be particulates and carbon monoxide as hope or change. This is Texas after all, and much like Texas, the Winter Meetings has become too big for its britches. As such, I'm not gong to pretend to preview the entirety of the Winter Meetings here. There's just too much going on for that. I'm not Ken Rosenthal only because I look crappy in bow ties. Plus, this being a Red Sox blog and all, I'll leave the previewing to those of us with larger purviews.
Focusing on the Red Sox, new GM Ben Cherington's first Winter Meetings is as likely as not to be uneventful. Like your room mate who moved out in the middle of the night leaving two lice-infested plaid sofas behind, former GM Theo Epstein's parting gifts to the Red Sox are both stinking and sucking up (payroll) space. Therefore this off season is being sold as a time of if not austerity then at least sensible and rational spending. Translated into English: there isn't much room for big ticket additions.
But even without the last few year's worth of spending on the books the Red Sox might not be in the market for much anyway. This year's crop of free agents is both uninspiring outside of two or three big names, and doesn't fit the Red Sox few needs very well. A right handed right fielder is more the Red Sox speed and lucky for them there are some available. But the fit isn't perfect as Carlos Beltran and Michael Cuddyer figure to cost a pretty penny and sever dirty ones too. Of the two, Beltran makes the most sense, but adding his contract would likely force the Red Sox away from resigning David Ortiz. Also his age and injury history might be enough to make the shell-shocked Red Sox steer clear.
As for Ortiz, Big Papi's agent has made some noise about a three year deal, but it's hard to see who offers that third season. The entire National League is automatically out of the running, and many AL teams either already have the DH position filled or aren't positioned properly within the success cycle. The Blue Jays and Orioles are the most commonly cited destinations, but it's hard to see Blue Jays GM Alex Anthopoulos, a super genius as you'll recall, offering a 36 year old DH a three year contract when his team isn't ready to compete yet. The Orioles on the other hand are free of super geniuses and winning. They very well might offer a three year deal, but I can think of no good reason why Ortiz would accept it.
On last week's OTM Podcast, Marc and I speculated with Brian MacPherson of the Providence Journal that there might be a spot for Ortiz with the Yankees. On cue, both former Yankee Johnny Damon and current one Robinson Cano both piped in saying they think Ortiz should join the Yankees. That could happen, though it presents real flexibility issues for the Yankees old lineup. One (read: me) would hope the Red Sox wouldn't let that happen. One would further hope Ortiz has a better sense of his place in the history of the Red Sox organization than Damon did of his. Sure, an extra year would be nice, but putting on a Yankees uniform would kill all the things Ortiz could do in Boston post-career. /soapbox
I'm a billion words into this and haven't yet mentioned pitching. Oops. With Lackey and Matsuzaka both out with Tommy John surgery and there being very little in the minor league system ready to step in and help the starting rotation next season, finding some starters has become imperative. The Red Sox have been linked to just about everyone from C.J. WIlson to Mark Buehrle to Hiroki Kuroda. If you want to look hard enough you can probably find something linking them to Edwin Jackson. Or Michael Jackson. Vicente Padilla is available. So is Jaime Moyer. Bartolo Colon just ate an entire doughnut factory so he hasn't signed anything yet either. As a great American once said, "Can't talk. Eating."
Cherington's success at these meetings and indeed the off season as a whole will, baring some crazy move that none of us sees coming, be defined by how successfully he fixes the starting pitching staff. As we all discussed in our Armchair GM pieces a couple weeks back, there are a million different ways to go. It will be interesting to sit back and see which ways our rookie GM goes.
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In my opinion
If the Red Sox sign a solid starting pitcher, they are the best team in baseball. They already have the best offense in baseball and a great “Big 3” in pitching, so if they can add one more, then they could win it all.
Check out my blog at http://conor-soxrox.blogspot.com
Anything specific, Sandy?
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
OTM | Silver Seven
Sorry you didn’t like it. Is there anything constructive you’d like to say? I’m open to criticism if phrased nicely.
Writer at Over The Monster. Follow me on Twitter! It'll be super awesome fun! @mattymatty2000
yes
why does everything article you write have to feature a little joke after every comment.
Don’t take it personal, but it’s very annoying.
The 2011 Over the Monster Gedman League Fantasy Baseball Champion
I hate free agency
I don’t think every article I write does that. I do try to include humor in my writing. I’m not sure how well it hits home but I try.
I work hard at my writing. i spend lots of time writing and re-writing it. I’m not sure if it shows but that’s what I do. You don’t have to like it of course. That’s up to you. I’m sorry you didn’t like this piece or, apparently, most of the stuff I’ve written. Hopefully you’ll continue to give me a chance.
Writer at Over The Monster. Follow me on Twitter! It'll be super awesome fun! @mattymatty2000
quite the opposite I like what you write
I don’t like the little jokes.
That’s my only gripe. My opinion means shit here, so it’s no big deal.
The 2011 Over the Monster Gedman League Fantasy Baseball Champion
I hate free agency
You’re opinion matters to me. I’m always trying to get better as a writer so I appreciate your thoughts.
Writer at Over The Monster. Follow me on Twitter! It'll be super awesome fun! @mattymatty2000
I sort of agree with Sandy
Humorous articles are fine if they’re clearly articles that should be humorous, but when every point in every article has a little humor in it, well, you turn into the OTM Carrot Top.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
by TheLoneDavid on Dec 6, 2011 11:43 AM EST up reply actions
Cuddyer and Beltran would be $$$$$$$$$$
Why these two? Of the two, maybe Beltran…..can Cuddyer play RF in Fenway? Beltran is a real clubhouse ass according to my Met fan neighbor, but what his source is, dont know.
I think I read someone on this site mention moving Crawford to RF if they sign Cuddyer….is that even feasible?
I think let either of the kids get a shot (Reddick or Kalish) and spend the $$$$$ on a starter and a closer.
"You're either carrying a spear, or running from it"
by BigSpearDiplomacy on Dec 5, 2011 8:52 AM EST reply actions
Cuddyer will not be moving to LF
He is deaf in his left ear, which is why the lion’s share of his playtime in his career is on the right side of the field. He played 3B consistently about 5-6 years ago, but he had worked out a special way of communicating with the SS so that he could be given the heads up when an offspeed pitch was coming, etc.
He has played hardly any LF/CF in his career, most likely for that reason.
by The Name is Dalton on Dec 5, 2011 10:01 AM EST up reply actions
This just in
BigSpearDiplomacy’s neighbor thinks Beltran is a clubhouse ass. How will this affect his value on the free agent market? Tune in tonight to find out.
Dont be an ass
…and READ what I wrote. I dont know and he played AAA ball in the Mets system, so maybe his source is good, maybe not. As stated.
"You're either carrying a spear, or running from it"
by BigSpearDiplomacy on Dec 5, 2011 11:58 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I prefer Beltran anyway....also as stated
"You're either carrying a spear, or running from it"
by BigSpearDiplomacy on Dec 5, 2011 12:02 PM EST up reply actions
i did READ what you wrote
If he actually played in the Mets system, then calling him your “met fan neighbor” drastically undersold your point. don’t blame me for not talking it seriously. hell, even talking about your neighbor having “sources” was funny to me. and still is. sorry.
Met fans have greater insight on the rumours and nuances of the Met organization
just as Red Sox fans have greater insight into the rumours and nuances of the Red Sox organization. Which is why he mentioned it, but did so with a huge “for whatever that’s worth”.
Ergo, you were correctly labeled as an ass in this particular situation.
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
OTM | Silver Seven
Thank You and done....
moving on here…we are all Red Sox fans after all.
"You're either carrying a spear, or running from it"
by BigSpearDiplomacy on Dec 5, 2011 5:04 PM EST up reply actions
+1
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
OTM | Silver Seven
"place in Red Sox history"
Seriously? Hasn’t Ortiz, like Damon and Pedro before him already made thier place in Red Sox history? By the way, “Big Papi’s” restaurant in Framingham is closed.
No good reason for Ortiz to sign in Baltimore? How about an extra $10 million bucks, like Damon?
The baseball season is over, this is the business season; players will sign for the most money, and in most cases, that is exactly what they should do.
It's a moot point
because there’s no way the Orioles offer three years.
Why not?
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
OTM | Silver Seven
Agreed
But the point the writer made was Ortiz would not accept an offer from the Orioles. Ortiz will, and should, take the most lucrative offer out there wether from the Sox, Orioles, Yankees or Royals.
Also, I don’t count out the Yankees here. Everyone seems to be running with the idea that the Yankees want to keep the DH slot open for aging A-Rod or even Jeter. I don’t buy that. I don’t believe A-Rod, and certainly not Jeter is going to see DH time over the next two seasons. That’s what were talking about here, two contract seasons (’12 & ’13) max, maybe a team option for a third so they can call it a three year deal. The Yankees used Andrew Jones and Eric Chavez DH last year and both are free agents. They may decide to go bargain basement again, but they may also decide to offer Ortiz a nice 2 year, $24 mil. deal to settle the DH slot and hurt the Red Sox.
You know, I disagree with you here and there are several examples too.
At the end of the day, sometimes it isn’t all about the money. Over their career, MLB (and many professional athletes) make more than enough to take care of even the most lavish of lifestyles. Certainly, some outspend themselves despite it, but I think Big Papi isn’t one of those.
And other players have chosen less money to stay with their home town teams: for every Brett Favre, there’s a Cal Ripken or Tony Gwynn. Didn’t someone offer Holliday more money than the Cardinals did, but he chose to stay in Saint Louis? Or more recently, Cliff Lee selected the Phillies for less money (though, arguably, perhaps for an easier road to a World Series and HOF stats pitching in the NL in that rotation)…
Certainly, I think there will be players for Ortiz, and the Yankees might offer 2/$24 million to him (much like we offered money to Mariano Rivera last year… before he resigned with the Yankees)… I hope the Red Sox offer him at least as much as that (if he gets that offer from the Yankees), and maybe even throw in the option (vesting with certain performance targets for ’12 & ’13).
However, I don’t think every player has to chase every dollar when it comes to contract time. Certainly is there right to, but I don’t think they all do.
I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.
Wait ’til next year!
Ugh... my English degree is hurting tonight.
“There” is “their”… what a terrible mistake to make…
I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.
Wait ’til next year!
Aw man
as someone who is trying for an english degree, I just saw my future there, and it hurt.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
by TheLoneDavid on Dec 6, 2011 11:44 AM EST up reply actions
I agree with this
especially if when you add on the endorsement deals and so forth that Ortiz gets as spinoff revenue, that is much more easily achieved if he stays a Red Sawk.
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
OTM | Silver Seven
It's all about Ortiz IMO.
If he re-signs, then I could definitely see Youk being traded in a package for pitching. If Ortiz doesn’t re-sign, the Sox will sign Beltran or Cuddyer, and shipping Reddick or Kalish along with some other prospects for pitching.
I prefer the second option.
Sign Beltran, then trade Reddick/Kalish plus Iglesias/Lavarnway for Gavin Floyd.
by abbreviatedman on Dec 5, 2011 10:50 AM EST up reply actions
Lavarnway is going to be the backup catcher,
And possible DH. He’s not going anywhere.
by aubatron2011 on Dec 5, 2011 11:24 AM EST up reply actions
And who plays third?
I’m not sure where this Youk trade talk started, but I don’t see the Sox trading him and I want Youk at 3rd in 2012.
It started because the Sox need flexibility in their payroll.
And he coudl proved some value for some teams that loses out on the Prince or Pujols sweepstakes.
Plus, even as a big Youk fan, the fact remains...
… he’s broken down the last couple years, and third base isn’t the best place for his health over the season. He is worth more to someone else at first base than he is to us at third base, and this might be the last chance we have to get a return for him.
I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.
Wait ’til next year!
Exactly.
Gammons is playing down this scenario, because he’s too valuable to the Sox and the fact that he’s been hurt the last two years, but I think it’s a lot more likely than he believes.
That's where Cuddyer,Beltran, and Willingham
come into play. Lowrie/Aviles would be servicable at third, and the power you lose from Youkilis would go to RF in either one of the three RF.
Don't like it
too many moving parts. Youk is very affordable and Ortiz is not going to break the bank. does trading Youk mean we sign Beltran? another, even worse health case?
And I wouldn’t count on getting much for Youk coming off another injury, so I don’t see it happening. no team is giving up any pitching for Youk.
The Sox only have 30 million to spend.
Ortiz may accept Arb. which would take up half that. So the Sox will have to get creative to acquire pitching. Playing first would cut down on the ear and tear on Youk’s bodu which would keep him healthier. I said it could be Bletran or Cuddyer, or Willingham.
frankly, if Ortiz signed and they still had $15 million to spend,
that would be fine. I think that’s probably optimistic. They could do a lot with $15 million.
Peter Gammons said depending on what Ortiz signs for,
which would probably be about $10 million, which would leave about $15 million left for a 2 starters, 2 relievers, and RH OF.
by aubatron2011 on Dec 5, 2011 11:28 PM EST up reply actions
let's think about it reasonably
$15 million.
RH OF is about $1 million
2 relievers? Let’s see, we’ll say our pen includes Bard, Aceves, Jenks, Morales, Albers, Doubront, I’m not sure we’re spending big on any other relievers. Maybe a couple people like Ayala, who could be good. Most likely a bundle of minor league contracts.
so 2 starters is almost all of that money. That sounds doable.
with $15 million, here's how I would allocate funds:
$2 million to Scott Hairston
$2.5 to George Sherrill
$5 to Bedard (I’m guessing he goes somewhere between 3 and 7, I chose 5)
$3 million to Rich Harden (ugh, but he’s a decent, cheap arm)
$2.5 split between minor league deals to Justin Duchscherer, Brandon Webb, Ben Sheets and/or Dontrelle Willis for depth.
Promote Weiland to fill the second hole in the pen, and we’re all good.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
by TheLoneDavid on Dec 6, 2011 11:51 AM EST up reply actions
I agree with the need for 2 starters
I think maybe get one decent reliever and a couple vet min guys, as for a RH OF, keep Darnell. For some reason I actually like him now. (Which is saying quite a bit, I remember being very against him in the 2010 season). I don’t really believe in signing an expense RH bat just for the sake of saying we need a RH bat, our offense was I believe #2 in all of baseball against left handed pitchers last year, the need isn’t particularly strong to me.
Joe, the reason we shout "WE ARE" and the reason the answer will always be "PENN STATE"
What would everyone think of dealing Scutaro?
After Reyes and Rollins the SS market is not that strong, I would think he could be of some value to a team that needs a SS. Throw in a mid level prospect or two and see what the Sox could get. Aviles, Lowrie, and Iglesias could all fill in for Scutaro.
Wouldn't be opposed if it was a package that returned a starting pitcher
But I’m not sure it would. I wouldn’t mind having to stick with Aviles/Lowrie but I would like to see Iglesias back in AA/AAA to rebuild value.
by The Name is Dalton on Dec 6, 2011 9:40 AM EST up reply actions
I agree.
If there was some way that a starter could comeback, I’d do it. I just think the Sox need to do something with the actual Major League roster this off-season so they have a little more flexibility payroll wise. Scutaro might be the most attractive because he had a solid year, and his contract ($6 million) won’t break a team’s budget if they wanted to extend him.
by aubatron2011 on Dec 6, 2011 10:10 AM EST up reply actions
I would be okay with it
Hope and pray Lowrie can stay healthy. Would much, much, MUCH rather trade Iglesias though.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
by TheLoneDavid on Dec 6, 2011 11:55 AM EST up reply actions
I know that
they waited FAR too long to trade him.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
by TheLoneDavid on Dec 6, 2011 12:03 PM EST up reply actions

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