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Around SBN: The Most Dangerous Division in Sports

Addressing The Andrew Bailey Splits

Whenever you make a deal with the Oakland Athletics, there are two reasons to be worried:

1: Billy Beane has probably fleeced you.

You may not know how, you may not for a few years. In fact, one decade later you might be laughing about how badly you ripped off the Athletics back in 2011 when, suddenly, you realize your wallet is gone, and Beane just used your credit card to pay for the 2021 equivalent of Albert Pujols.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that the man has a reputation for getting good value and then giving up players who provide a great deal less than expected. Often enough, however, this is because of...

2: The Damn Coliseum

After all, whenever you pick up a pitcher from Oakland, you have to ask yourself whether they're capable of surviving outside of the spacious grounds of the Coliseum--the only park in the majors without the fan favorite "home run" rule. When that pitcher comes with a 40.1% career ground ball rate, that becomes all the more important.

Star-divide

Initially, Bailey's splits are the sort that might make you recoil in terror. While his ERA on the road is actually lower than at home, it's kept down by a remarkable (and unsustainable) 88.2% strand rate. When looking at FIP, Bailey's performance on the road (3.62) is significantly worse than in the Coliseum (1.94). This would all be terrible news...were it not for the fact that the biggest portion of this is located not in HR/FB% numbers, but in strikeouts and walks.

While Bailey's HR/FB% is certainly higher on the road than at home, at 6.2% it actually comes in below that of Jonathan Papelbon--another fly-heavy closer who, as you may remember, had quite a few decent years here in Fenway. His strikeouts, on the other hand, dip from 10.45 per nine innings to 7.40. His walks jump up too, from 1.87 to 3.27.

You may have noticed by now that it doesn't really make a ton of sense for that to happen. How far away the outfield wall is, after all, does not determine whether a pitch goes for a ball or a strike. What it can determine, however, is whether or not the pitcher in question wants to throw a strike. While Andrew Bailey spoke to going after batters and getting ahead in the count shortly after the deal had been completed, if he's unwilling to do that in smaller parks, then it could explain the difference.

If this is the case, then it's something that Bob McClure and the Red Sox staff are going to have to fix. But what it's not is a lack of ability. With some guys who come out of Oakland, it's not clear whether they can survive without the park to forgive them. A 10.45 K/9 and 1.87 BB/9, however, can work anywhere. It might even be serviceable in a Little League park.

Of course, this all might never work out. Bailey could come into Fenway, look over his shoulder after every pitch, and then try to pitch around every batter he faces. In that situation, we're still looking at a decent setup man, just not the top reliever we went searching for. If that ends up being the case, however, it's not because the Sox bought someone who couldn't do it, but someone who wouldn't let themselves do it.

For now we just have to hope he can be himself in Fenway.

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This is what made the trade so appealing
A 10.45 K/9 and 1.87 BB/9, however, can work anywhere. It might even be serviceable in a Little League park.

"Man that ball got outta here in a hurry, you know anything that travels that far oughta have a damn stewardess on it, don't you think?" - Crash Davis

by Dave D on Dec 29, 2011 1:17 PM EST reply actions  

Fear Billy Beane?

Out here in SF, Beane is being vilified big time by everyone for yet another gutting of the A’s roster this off-season. People don’t even refer to them as the “Triple-A’s” anymore, they are now the “DOUBLE A’s”. If teams play their cards right, Reddick will be available in another couple years for another package of prospects, and if any of the prospects that the Sox just sent over pan out, they will be available a couple years after that for, you guessed it, a package of prospects.

Truth to tell, Beane caught lighting in a bottle in 2002, and RSN should be grateful that he turned down the GM position when it was offered to him back then. He survives in Oakland mainly because their stadium situation is terrible, their fan base is completely demoralized and the owners pinch their pennies harder than Charlie Finley ever thought of.

by The Bat on Dec 29, 2011 1:37 PM EST reply actions  

The A's Ownership

A’s fans shouldn’t blame Beane. The demise of this once proud franchise belongs to the fraud or frauds, who can’t, or won’t spend what it takes to field a competitive MLB team. Beane acquired Sweeney and Gonzalez from the mentally challenged Kenny Williams. Others who have been given away,starting with Brad Ziegler last summer, came through Beane’s system. Once Beane assembles the nucleus of a possibble contender, the owners bring out the broom. Not that all of his trades work out (Carlos Gonzalez),on balance, he has been a good GM. On June 15th,1976, Charlie Finley held a yard sale. The thrill of victory was becoming to expensive for the old Scrooge. Finley had had enough. Deals were worked out to where Finley would sell Vida Blue to the Yankees and Rollie Fingers and Joe Rudi to the Red Sox. Back then, Baseball had a commisioner, not a puppet. Bowie Kuhn vetoed the deals based on Baseballs Best Interests clause. It really didn’t matter. Free Agency was coming,allowing Finley an escape route. One by one, the great early 70’s A’s walked. This original franchise has been raped more then once. Connie Mack did it twice. First in the Teens, and then the great ‘29,’30,and ‘31 World Champions of Jimmy Fox, Al Simmons and Lefty Grove. After they moved to KC in 1954, they became the unofficial “farm team” for the betterment of the NY Yankees. Whenever the Yankees needed a player, such as Roger Maris, A’s owner, Arnold Johnson, would send them the player along with a bouquet of fresh flowers and candy. Getting back to yesterday’s trade. With all due respect to those who love prospects,this house cleaning is unacceptable. An ownership should have to live up to some standards of quality, with regards to the product they put on the field,and sell tickets for, rather then being allowed to perpetuate one rebuilding process after another on their fans. There are passionate A’s fans that deserve better..

by Robert57 on Dec 29, 2011 6:39 PM EST up reply actions  

yeah, the biggest question for me is "why does that discrepancy exist?"

because it really is a dramatic difference. If it’s just chance, then awesome. If he’s pitching differently at the Coliseum because he knows he won’t give up home runs and nibbles more on the road, that’s more worrisome.

by wolf9309 on Dec 29, 2011 1:38 PM EST reply actions  

I am not worried much about those splits

because not only does Fenway suppress home runs slightly, but it has a wide open right field area that can actually help fly ball pitchers. Fly balls have a lower batting average on balls in play than grounders so while ground ball pitchers are generally a good asset thanks to the lower HR totals, they are more prone to BABIP variations. Fly ball heavy guys like Bailey who do not give up the standard 10% HR/FB are few and far between, so we may have a small sample size issue to deal with, but if he really does stay at his career road HR/FB rate of 6.2% he is going to be great for Boston. I doubt the issue with strikeouts and walks is as dramatic as it appears. Fenway actually suppresses walks slightly too, for what ever reason, while Oakland is quite walk friendly (weird right?) so that miight help him too. I think his large splits on K and BB rates are more a product of noise than anything else. As a reliever, he isn’t giving us even a starters full season worth of innings to judge from.

- Matt Sullivan
"I would change policy, bring back natural grass and nickel beer. Baseball is the belly-button of our society. Straighten out baseball, and you straighten out the rest of the world." Bill "Spaceman" Lee
www.overthemonster.com
www.spacemanspancakes.wordpress.com

by Mattsullivan on Dec 29, 2011 2:11 PM EST reply actions  

This was my concern, more than the splits

Why else would Beane deal a closer in the offseason when they become much more valuable at the trade deadline? Fear of injury.

On the other hand, if Bailey can stay healthy, Cherington can flip him at the trade deadline for more value than he paid for him, while moving Bard back to the pen to make room for a returning Dice-K. In abstract, picking up closer-capable arms now like Bailey and Melancon can be very smart.

by steel sox on Dec 29, 2011 3:18 PM EST up reply actions  

If he stays healthy, why flip him?

Bailey’s #s would tell you he has the stuff to be one of the premier closers in all of baseball. And you have him at a pretty bargain rate since he’s only going into his first year or arbitration eligibility.

The only thing that’s derailed him since his Rookie of the year campaign has been health. If health holds, why would you give up that asset?

"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach

by Sizzlack on Dec 30, 2011 12:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Because we have three other guys who can be "premier closers"

Remember, they’re just relievers on a pedestal. If we can flip him to a team that doesn’t know that for a young starting prospect it should be done. Especially with his injury history. I don’t want to have given up on, for example, Mike Minor (I know we couldn’t get him for Bailey, shut up) and then had Bailey suffer a career-ending injury in August.

You build on failure. You use it as a stepping stone. Close the door on the past. You don't try to forget the mistakes, but you don't dwell on it. You don't let it have any of your energy, or any of your time, or any of your space.
-Johnny Cash

by TheLoneDavid on Dec 30, 2011 1:27 PM EST up reply actions  

Because what Beane is exploiting now, we should exploit next year...

… the market overvalues the “closer” role, and we now have “three” on the team, with Bard having a few saves, Melancon more, and Bailey already being a closer. BZ said it somewhere else, but this could stockpiles some nice chips for a piece at the deadline next summer…

We got a good deal here (I really believe Reddick’s value was as high as it was going to get, and two Single A prospects that may or may not pan out are lottery tickets), and if someone else will overpay for him next summer (or Melancon, or Bard), then by all means… let’s make a deal.

I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.

Wait ’til next year!

by AlohaSox on Dec 30, 2011 4:59 PM EST up reply actions  

As I see it

Cherington is not just setting up the team for April, but is stocking chips of value that will give the team the needed flexibility to adapt to situations in-season as they arise due to injury and poor performance. When Dice-K’s ready to replace whichever reliever sticks in the rotation, when Lavarnway’s ready to come up from Pawtucket, we’ll be ready to deal from positions of strength at two positions, catcher and reliever, that are commonly sought by contending teams in the summer. Shoppach, Melancon, Bailey don’t cost much now, but in half a year could provide just the value the team needs, by either playing or being traded.

by steel sox on Dec 31, 2011 5:12 PM EST up reply actions  

An interesting trend may be emerging.

Punto, Shoppach, Sweeney are highly regarded as defenders (as are Gonzo, PD, Youk, CC, Ells). Despite the loss of Pap, Wheeler, etc. the Pen is stronger than last season, especially considering the potential availability of Acevas, Bard, Hill, and a year of seasoning for Bowden, Doubront, Miller, Tazawa, Wilson. Ben will strengthen
the rotation next. So pitching and defense are his obvious goals, huge bonuses considering he already has of the best offenses returning, healthy and significantly enhanced. Welcome to Boston Andrew Bailey and Mark Melancon.

by GerryT on Dec 29, 2011 3:42 PM EST reply actions  

Wheeler's not quite gone yet

BC said they are continuing to talk.

by mike_b1 on Dec 29, 2011 4:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Woo hoo!

If we sign Wheeler and Oswalt, I can still win the BZ Pick 5!!

I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.

Wait ’til next year!

by AlohaSox on Dec 30, 2011 5:00 PM EST up reply actions  

With the roster crunch as it is now,

with so many unestablished pitchers fresh out of options – Doubront, Bowden, Miller, Morales, Atchison – I find it hard to imagine that Wheeler will be re-signed. There would have to be some trades and/or releases.

by steel sox on Dec 31, 2011 5:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Stronger Pen?

While the pen should be fine in 2012, I don’t know how you can serioulsy make the call now that the bullpen now is actually stronger. Paplebon is an elite closer and the Bard/Papleon combo was the best 8/9 inning team in the game for 3 years. Both are now subtracted from the 2012 pen.

by Scoop1981 on Dec 29, 2011 5:11 PM EST up reply actions  

well they still have Bard

and Melancon + Bailey are two guys who are good and actually cheaper combined than Paps

by BobZupcic on Dec 29, 2011 5:31 PM EST up reply actions  

I think his point was seperating the bullpen from the starting rotation

As of right now, Bard is not definitely in the bullpen. Aceves probably is but I can’t say that for sure right now. So in essence, Bailey is simply taking Papelbon’s spot and Melancon replaces Bard. Bard and Paps (September aside) had excellent years so I’m not ready to say that the new 8/9 combo will be better than last year.

Looking at it based on their 2011 numbers, We are potentially losing 251 Bullpen innings from those three guys and replacing it with 115 innings from Melancon/Bailey plus whoever replaces Aceves (again, assuming Bard and Aceves are both in the rotation which I find highly unlikely.

I agree with Scoop’s thoughts. The 2012 bullpen will be fine as we currently know it, and if they can get Bard/Aceves back in it then it would be improved. But as we know it now, I just don’t think you can say they are stronger than last year.

by The Name is Dalton on Dec 30, 2011 8:38 AM EST up reply actions  

The 2012 bullpen almost certainly won't have to match the 2011 versions innings count

The failure of our starters led to 50 to 100 extra innings landing on Wheeler, Ace, Bard, and Morales (mostly) and that is highly unlikely to happen again. If one of Bard/Ace lands in the rotation permanently, they will shave those extra innings off from the starter’s role.

- Matt Sullivan
"I would change policy, bring back natural grass and nickel beer. Baseball is the belly-button of our society. Straighten out baseball, and you straighten out the rest of the world." Bill "Spaceman" Lee
www.overthemonster.com
www.spacemanspancakes.wordpress.com

by Mattsullivan on Dec 30, 2011 9:59 AM EST up reply actions  

I would imagine this to be true

But at the same time if it IS Bard and Aceves starting full time, to truly decrease the load on the bullpen they have to at the very least eat the innings Lackey and Wake put in. Lackey and Wake did give them 160 and 154 innings (crappy innings but still) so those have to be replaced along with around 150 that came from the starts of the other guys (Bedard, Miller, Weiland, Dice-K and Aceves starts). That also doesn’t include the 50-100 EXTRA innings you mention.

So while I want to agree that it most likely won’t be as big of a strain, I am not able to say itour current starting pitching options. Buch only threw 82 so if healthy I would assume he can pick up 80-100. Dice-K if he recovers in time can pick up another 80+. I don’t really expect Beckett or Lester to go much higher than the 190+ they had last year. So if Bard and Aceves can both hit 140-150, it would pick up around 120-140 combined extra innings over what they pitched in 2011.

by The Name is Dalton on Dec 30, 2011 11:20 AM EST up reply actions  

That, by the way

Is some wonky and very rough math on my part. But, the overall point is that I am not ready to say the bullpen is without a doubt “stronger” than last year as constructed this morning.

Of course, if we sign a Kuroda, Oswalt, Maholm, Garland, etc and Bard or Aceves are in the bullpen full time and then they both are when Dice-K comes back then my attitude is entirely different and I would be on board with saying it’s improved.

by The Name is Dalton on Dec 30, 2011 11:39 AM EST up reply actions  

Whoa whoa whoa...
The 2012 bullpen almost certainly won’t have to match the 2011 versions innings count

The failure of our starters led to 50 to 100 extra innings landing on Wheeler, Ace, Bard, and Morales (mostly) and that is highly unlikely to happen again.

Say what? If Bard is starting, there is an excellent chance that he will either stink (gets hook, innings fall on bullpen) or will be put on a pitch count to not blow out his arm (innings fall on bullpen). To say that the 2012 pen is highly unlikely to be as taxed as the 2011 bullpen is blindness.

Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.

@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
OTM | Silver Seven

by Bloggy on Dec 30, 2011 11:39 AM EST up reply actions  

I'm not sure you saw the same 2011 rotation I did.

You know, where Lackey/Dice started the season, and Lackey/Wake finished it, with only one September start where the pitcher went 6 innings (okay, maybe two…)

I have to agree… I don’t think the 2012 bullpen throws as many innings as the 2011 one does, even if Bard is the #5. Of course, I do believe we sign someone (Oswalt/Kuroda/Garland/Maholm) to pitch much better than Lackey did at the #4, so maybe I’m a little ahead of myself… but, I think it’s a safe bet.

I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.

Wait ’til next year!

by AlohaSox on Dec 30, 2011 5:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Oh, I saw the exact same rotation you did in 2011.

And what we know this year is that we have one starter that we can feel confident in. We have another, Beckett, who can’t seem to string to solid years back-to-back (which is a less voodoo way of addressing the even year/odd year phenomenon). We have a third, Buchholz, who is coming back from, essentially, a broken back. Then we have two question marks, one or both of which may be filled with converted relievers or perhaps even Tim Wakefield.

If you can read that paragraph and then look at yourself square in the eyes in the mirror and say, “It is highly unlikely that this year’s bullpen will be called upon as much as last year’s bullpen”, then I’d be absolutely shocked.

We would have very different definitions of “highly unlikely” and “almost certainly”.

Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.

@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
OTM | Silver Seven

by Bloggy on Jan 1, 2012 8:42 AM EST up reply actions  

Not that I disagree with the majority of your post

But last year Venters/Kimbrel was the best 8/9 in the league.

You build on failure. You use it as a stepping stone. Close the door on the past. You don't try to forget the mistakes, but you don't dwell on it. You don't let it have any of your energy, or any of your time, or any of your space.
-Johnny Cash

by TheLoneDavid on Dec 29, 2011 6:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes, last year, one year

But for at least 3 years, the Bard/Paplebon team was the best in the business. We all knew it would come to and end, but I didn’t think both would be gone in 2012.

by Scoop1981 on Dec 30, 2011 9:51 AM EST up reply actions  

I doubt that

2009 and 2010 weren’t exactly banner years for Papelbon.

You build on failure. You use it as a stepping stone. Close the door on the past. You don't try to forget the mistakes, but you don't dwell on it. You don't let it have any of your energy, or any of your time, or any of your space.
-Johnny Cash

by TheLoneDavid on Dec 30, 2011 12:30 PM EST up reply actions  

I said this before

Not a lot of moves, a little tinkering, focus on defense, if this is anything like the 09 offseason we’re going to sign John Lackey… to an extension.

Joe, the reason we shout "WE ARE" and the reason the answer will always be "PENN STATE"

by Rogue Nine on Dec 29, 2011 5:46 PM EST up reply actions  

completely aggree

very small moves are being done because very small moves are in order. this whole idea of blowing everything up in order to get a starter and a right-handed rf is nonsense. by most accounts (not mine) reddick was a fourth outfielder, so he was traded with two low a prospects for another fourth outfielder and a really intriguing closer. a closer that is more like foulke (who also had an ‘unsustainable’ lob% of 90% when he left the a’s) than papelbon as far as ‘stuff.’
one other point to follow TheLoneDavid who pointed out the atlanta closing duo…
as al east followers we have become accustomed to a closer having a long career because of the brilliance of mariano rivera. rivera is an anomaly and will likely not be replicated soon, most closers are like cornerbacks— once they lose a step you are wise to find a younger one.

by 3run_bomb on Dec 29, 2011 8:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes, but the 09 offseason blew up due to Cameron's torn abdomen...

… and Ellsbury’s broken ribs. Youk and Pedey were lost to injury too…

Think about what that team would have looked like with those guys contributing instead of McDonald in CF, Nava playing a fair amount… Beltre tore the cover off the ball, we added VMart in, and won 89 games… despite all of those injuries.

I’d say bad luck, not the 09 offseason, cost us 2010.

I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.

Wait ’til next year!

by AlohaSox on Dec 30, 2011 5:07 PM EST up reply actions  

Oh I'm not projecting

I’m just comparing and then making a joke, Lackey.

Joe, the reason we shout "WE ARE" and the reason the answer will always be "PENN STATE"

by Rogue Nine on Dec 30, 2011 5:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes, sadly... anything involving Lackey just isn't funny to me.

For the life of me, I cannot figure out why.

I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.

Wait ’til next year!

by AlohaSox on Dec 30, 2011 5:46 PM EST up reply actions  

Bailey's Career SwStr is 11.8%

That’s one of my fav stats for a closer because if nothing else, you want your closer to be able to blow it by a batter.

No where near Papelbon’s gaudy numbers (he posted a ridiculous 16% last year!), but Bailey is almost identical to Bard’s career number (11.2%)

NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.

by mmmmm on Dec 30, 2011 2:23 AM EST reply actions  

+1

- Matt Sullivan
"I would change policy, bring back natural grass and nickel beer. Baseball is the belly-button of our society. Straighten out baseball, and you straighten out the rest of the world." Bill "Spaceman" Lee
www.overthemonster.com
www.spacemanspancakes.wordpress.com

by Mattsullivan on Dec 30, 2011 10:01 AM EST up reply actions  

Nice!

I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.

Wait ’til next year!

by AlohaSox on Dec 30, 2011 5:07 PM EST up reply actions  

My thoughts on Bard starting

He seemed to wear down as the season progressed from overuse. But, if he transitions to starter then he will not be going out there trying to blow it by them for 1 inning – he will have to change his approach. I just do not think he will hold up.
But, I like the idea of a Bailey/ Bard combo

"Man that ball got outta here in a hurry, you know anything that travels that far oughta have a damn stewardess on it, don't you think?" - Crash Davis

by Dave D on Dec 30, 2011 2:11 PM EST reply actions  

Except that really, if Bard ends up back in the bullpen...

… let’s say, for argument, that it’s Aceves that takes the #5 spot in Spring Training next year…

It isn’t a Bailey/Bard combo… but rather a Jenks/Melancon 7th, with Bard 8th and Bailey 9th. Suddenly, the idea of your starter only going six isn’t nearly as bad…

I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.

Wait ’til next year!

by AlohaSox on Dec 30, 2011 5:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Our starter could go four

Ace pitches the 5th and 6th, Melancon the 7th, Bard the 8th, and Bailey the 9th if we absolutely must set it up like that.

You build on failure. You use it as a stepping stone. Close the door on the past. You don't try to forget the mistakes, but you don't dwell on it. You don't let it have any of your energy, or any of your time, or any of your space.
-Johnny Cash

by TheLoneDavid on Dec 30, 2011 6:59 PM EST up reply actions  

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