Open Thread, Or, How To Fill Out A Bullpen
by Marc Normandin on Dec 28, 2011 12:22 PM EST
in Open Thread
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PrintYour suggested open thread topic of the day: which bargain bin relievers are of interest to you, if any? I've got a few to get you started, with their various positives and (sometimes noticeable) warts on display over at Baseball Nation. The basic premise? These guys can't get a job -- or even an offer -- until Ryan Madson finds out where his new home is. Once he does, (and assuming that home isn't Boston), who do you want to see fill out the pen out of who remains?
Give us the how, the why, and all that happy stuff. Like with the starters thread, we'll feature some of the most thoughtful responses at a late date (presumably before all of these guys start to come off of the market -- otherwise, what's the point?)
Personal preference? Not Chad Qualls. In the right context, this groundballer can have some definite use, but Fenway and the AL East isn't that context. Need more than what my short list provides? Baseball Nation's free agent tracker should suffice, once you sort by position and search for "RP". And no one is forcing you to look outside of the organization, either: have a plan that involves in-house pieces? Do tell.
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I'll start out off-topic:
SBnation app for Android is solid! Will be great for posting from Fenway this year.
…oh, right.
Yeah... please don't go there.
Joe, the reason we shout "WE ARE" and the reason the answer will always be "PENN STATE"
I can't get mine to work and was going to ask about it.
I think it must be because I sign in using my Yahoo ID rather than signing in directly. In any event, it’s annoying as @#$%.
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
OTM | Silver Seven
Yeah, that would probably make sense
I have an actual sbnation account, so logging in isn’t a problem. Not sure what to suggest.
I tried to switch my sign-in method
But I think I’d have to shut down “Bloggy” and start a whole new account. Maybe I should just start a second account…
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
OTM | Silver Seven
Universal Blogcare.
You build on failure. You use it as a stepping stone. Close the door on the past. You don't try to forget the mistakes, but you don't dwell on it. You don't let it have any of your energy, or any of your time, or any of your space.
-Johnny Cash
by TheLoneDavid on Dec 29, 2011 7:51 PM EST up reply actions
Ha ha ha ha....love it.
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
OTM | Silver Seven
He needs a super Canadian name though.
You build on failure. You use it as a stepping stone. Close the door on the past. You don't try to forget the mistakes, but you don't dwell on it. You don't let it have any of your energy, or any of your time, or any of your space.
-Johnny Cash
by TheLoneDavid on Dec 30, 2011 1:56 PM EST up reply actions
Maple Blogsrup
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
OTM | Silver Seven
Yankees sign Hideki Okajima
Okajima stated that his hatred for the Sox still burns even after refusing a promotion to the ML club last summer.
by Z3rogs on Dec 28, 2011 12:49 PM EST via mobile reply actions
It's not as if...
..the FO has a sparkling record of communication with its players or keeping players from saying stupid, inaccurate things about each other. The last two years have been chaos personified.
The current confusion over whether Crawford is talking to BV and where LL and Ben C. stand in the power structure sure doesn’t help to clear things up. New boss same as the ol boss.
I read that...
… as Lookout Landing and Ben Cherrington having a power struggle for control of the Sox. Which, really, would explain a lot.
The Year of Extreme Opinions
"It is so on that things have now become very much like Donkey Kong."
by nuthinboutnuthin on Dec 28, 2011 4:53 PM EST up reply actions
You would think that he would be happy with the Sox.
They paid him close to 2 million bucks even though everyone and his mother knew that he @#$%ing sucked and wasn’t gonna contribute squat.
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
OTM | Silver Seven
Qualls
…because I picked him in BZ’s pick 5. No other reason really.
Joe, the reason we shout "WE ARE" and the reason the answer will always be "PENN STATE"
Bargain Bin relievers I want for 2012:
…
Sign some fucking starters already.
You build on failure. You use it as a stepping stone. Close the door on the past. You don't try to forget the mistakes, but you don't dwell on it. You don't let it have any of your energy, or any of your time, or any of your space.
-Johnny Cash
Buster just reported
Baily to Sox. Reddick part of the deal
I assume...
… that our plan is to convert all these closers into starters. We’ll have a rotation which goes:
Lester;
Beckett (and a cadre of attendants who prevent him from learning that it’s an even year);
Bionic Man (reconstructed from the remains of Clay Buchholz);
Bard;
Bailey;
Melatonin;
Aceves
Awesome. We’re totally going to win the “Stupidest Team” Award.
The Year of Extreme Opinions
"It is so on that things have now become very much like Donkey Kong."
by nuthinboutnuthin on Dec 28, 2011 4:51 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
sonofanutcracker
Joe, the reason we shout "WE ARE" and the reason the answer will always be "PENN STATE"
MLBTR projects his salary at $3.5M as an ARB1 player.
On a player from Oakland with a 2.61/4.27 Home/Road xFIP split. 1.94/3.62 FIP split,
Brilliant. Absolutely brilliant.
Joe, the reason we shout "WE ARE" and the reason the answer will always be "PENN STATE"
Those numbers... the goggles...
… they do nothing!
The Year of Extreme Opinions
"It is so on that things have now become very much like Donkey Kong."
by nuthinboutnuthin on Dec 28, 2011 4:57 PM EST up reply actions
Sox front office showing a lot of confidence in Kalish here
that or more moves are coming
What's stupid? More transactions or putting all of our eggs in the Kalish basket?
by Anthony Emerson on Dec 28, 2011 4:54 PM EST up reply actions
No, he isn't
We may find someone who can handle the bat acceptably, but not also handle the largest RF in the AL.
Well, Reddick showed little ability to handle the bat at all after his hot start
Who knows, maybe they will transfer Crawford to RF.
I actually hope they try this
it’s worth a shot. he looked so lost in front of the monster
Not outside of Oakland
And this just murdered Bard’s career. He has to be a starter, no choice, and he’s going to be awful.
not necessarily
if Bard ends up being a disaster as a starter, we can make him the closer, have Bailey set him up, and then have Melancon be our 7th inning guy
Unfortunately, this.
I might be less unhappy, had Kalish not spent last year reprising Samuel L. Jackson’s role from Unbreakable.
The Year of Extreme Opinions
"It is so on that things have now become very much like Donkey Kong."
by nuthinboutnuthin on Dec 28, 2011 5:04 PM EST up reply actions
Do you think they already knew Kalish was missing the start of the season?
You know, when they made this deal?
I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.
Wait ’til next year!
I think you're selling the Sox waaaay short...
… and so does prospective # 5 starter Tim Wakefield.
The Year of Extreme Opinions
"It is so on that things have now become very much like Donkey Kong."
by nuthinboutnuthin on Dec 28, 2011 4:55 PM EST up reply actions
We're getting Ryan Sweeney too apparently.
I have a suspicion we gave up a bit more than Reddick.
Joe, the reason we shout "WE ARE" and the reason the answer will always be "PENN STATE"
Yeah. Olney said that Reddick was only one part of the deal.
by Anthony Emerson on Dec 28, 2011 4:59 PM EST up reply actions
Miles Head and Alcantera
Per Olney
Joe, the reason we shout "WE ARE" and the reason the answer will always be "PENN STATE"
Never heard of either, and I live in the AA town.
So…we’re not giving up that much?
by Anthony Emerson on Dec 28, 2011 5:00 PM EST up reply actions
Neither have hit AA yet
Both intriguing prospects.
Joe, the reason we shout "WE ARE" and the reason the answer will always be "PENN STATE"
Un. Happy.
The Year of Extreme Opinions
"It is so on that things have now become very much like Donkey Kong."
by nuthinboutnuthin on Dec 28, 2011 5:01 PM EST up reply actions
A 3B and a pitcher? Not much we're giving up.
WMB is the 3B of the future, and Alcanetra is just another pitcher.
by Anthony Emerson on Dec 28, 2011 5:03 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, but we're getting an injured reliever...
… whose stats outside of the Oakland Crackpipe are garbage. Assuming you have to do this deal, Reddick should have been sufficient.
The Year of Extreme Opinions
"It is so on that things have now become very much like Donkey Kong."
by nuthinboutnuthin on Dec 28, 2011 5:06 PM EST up reply actions
Anderson?
The Year of Extreme Opinions
"It is so on that things have now become very much like Donkey Kong."
by nuthinboutnuthin on Dec 28, 2011 4:59 PM EST up reply actions
Sox also getting Ryan Sweeney from Oakland.
by Anthony Emerson on Dec 28, 2011 4:58 PM EST reply actions
So an upgrade.
A minor upgrade, but an upgrade still.
by Anthony Emerson on Dec 28, 2011 5:06 PM EST up reply actions
He's useless against LHP
Gets on base ok against RHP, and I don’t know anything about his defense, but he has bad stats.
Maybe he would platoon with DMac, which would be gross.
That would be gross.
But as a backup, he doesn’t seem as abysmal as McD.
by Anthony Emerson on Dec 28, 2011 5:07 PM EST up reply actions
Sweeney's not great, by any means,
but he hits for a high average. Decent plate discipline. He’s physically a big guy, but next to no power. Had knee surgery, so I’m not sure how his usually nice defense is now. At least before the surgery, he was really nice in LF and RF, decent in CF.
those other two guys don't matter
so we basically gave up Reddick for Bailey and Sweeney. really not a bad deal on our part. I think we’re selling high on Reddick anyways
Mid-20's Prospects
Head is actually a 1B – don’t be fooled. Decent bat, maybe slightly old. Alcantara is a projectable lefty – command issues. Neither is an A prospect, but neither is useless.
The Year of Extreme Opinions
"It is so on that things have now become very much like Donkey Kong."
by nuthinboutnuthin on Dec 28, 2011 5:14 PM EST up reply actions
"A prospect" in the letter-grade sense
The Year of Extreme Opinions
"It is so on that things have now become very much like Donkey Kong."
by nuthinboutnuthin on Dec 28, 2011 5:14 PM EST up reply actions
Alcantra is a righty I believe
other than that, spot on.
Head is a guy who has potential to develop a lot of power. Alcantra is probably too young to say for sure, but is interesting
Yeah, I just saw that..
The Year of Extreme Opinions
"It is so on that things have now become very much like Donkey Kong."
by nuthinboutnuthin on Dec 28, 2011 5:17 PM EST up reply actions
I just don't see how Bailey is any better than Melancon, even IF Bard is starting,
which is an idea I still hate.
I also don’t see what they hell we’re going to do for right field. I didn’t love Reddick, but I was fine with him. Don’t trust Kalish, and don’t see anyone else as ready to step in. Is there a Cody Ross in our future?
I’m pretty much resigned to the fact that we’re only getting one starting pitcher at this point, as much as I hate it. It better f$%^ing be Kuroda, Oswalt, or Jackson.
I mean, on the plus side, we should have a pretty awesome bullpen, probably.
And I want to say
that if dealing for Bailey was a priority, I think Cherington did pretty well. This was a pretty good deal for him. BUT WE DIDN’T NEED HIM DAMMIT. WE NEED STARTING PITCHING.
oh and Ryan Sweeney? Really? Since when do we need a backup outfielder in his second year of arbitration who can’t hit lefties? I think this trade would be better if he isn’t included.
It's a good bullpen under team control for a few years
I think that’s a nice deal for both the present and future.
I would rather
have kept Bard in the pen, rolled dice on Aardsma/Zumaya/Kuo and kept Reddick, and signed some boring free agent starters for cheap.
by dennet on Dec 28, 2011 5:50 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
yeah, it looks like a pretty good bullpen
but now there’s a big gaping hole in right field in addition to a big gaping hole in the rotation and another big gaping hole that we’re pretending doesn’t exist by shoving Bard in it.
Under team control
But not cheap, Bailey’s hit is expected to be at $3.5 this year…
Joe, the reason we shout "WE ARE" and the reason the answer will always be "PENN STATE"
Still cheaper than Madson, who we were talking to, and wanted $10 million a year for multiple years.
Yeah, I don’t love this deal, but it’s a pretty good one for the players involved.
Of course, it’s the plan with Bard that f’s this all up.
I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.
Wait ’til next year!
Needs aren't mutually exclusive
We can need RP stability and also need pitching. And we should get them both. Sometimes you’ll have an opportunity to fill lower-priority needs before you fill higher-priority ones. There’s no rule saying you can’t do it that way.
This would only prevent us from getting pitchers if you think the trade either (a) made us run out of time (b) took up too much money or © took up too many prospects we could have used in a different trade to get a starter. I don’t see that any of those are true.
by dennet on Dec 28, 2011 5:55 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
yes I understand that, and it's something I've been saying so far this offseason
what really gets me about this trade is that I have no faith at all in Bard to be able to be an adequate starter, and this pretty well assures that he’s going to be in the rotation to start the year.
Thank you.
Good use of $$ to create a strong BP, which may yet include Bard or Acevas.
Good us of prospects who wont be aroind for years and are mostly blocked. Good use of my man Reddick who will play a lot in Oakland and reach his high side, and wont have Cafardo to kick him around anymore (Cuddyer at $10M, really?)
Why are we worried about solid defenders like Kalish, Sweeney, Lin, Linares? All of whom have good gloves and acceptable (on this team) to good bats? So RF will join SS and C as the only positions without AllStars/GG/SS. Scary.
Now all Ben needs to nail down is a SP or two. With his budget friendly upgrade and depth moves of Melancon, Shoppach, Punto, Bailey, Sweeney, Carlson; and the lineup and Pen in great shape, is there any reason to worry that he wont fix the rotation at the soonest opportunity?!?
This team had a lousy September but a GREAT May-August. Its the same team, incrementally improved, but with a healthy Gonzo, Youk, PD, CC, Buch, Jenks, Doubront, Albers,’and everyone in top shape. And who knows who will come over by the trade deadline? I cant worry about this team, as it is counterproductive. But it is fun wondering how far the will get in the postseason.
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