Nick Punto Signs Two-Year Deal With The Red Sox
by Marc Normandin on Dec 14, 2011 4:08 PM EST
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Wondering who was going to replace the now traded Jed Lowrie as insurance at shortstop, given Mike Aviles is already pulling double-duty as a backup outfielder as well as in the rest of the infield? The answer to your hours-old question is Nick Punto, whom the Red Sox today locked up for two years at just $3 million, plus $500,000 in incentives, according to Jon Heyman.
Considering some of the contracts handed out for bench and utility infielders this off-season, a two-year deal for so little money looks like a steal for Boston. Mark Ellis got two years and $8.75 million from the Dodgers. Jerry Hairston, two years and $6 million. The Brewers signed Alex Gonzalez to a $4 million one-year deal with a vesting option from the Brewers after hitting .241/.270/.372 for Atlanta in 2011. Throw in that Lowrie was expected to get a raise in arbitration, one that likely would have approached Punto's salary, and this signing even makes the trade from earlier even from a dollars perspective.
Punto has turned into something of an Ecksteinian "grit" meme, but, like Eckstein, there are things he does well (even if the jokes are funny), and he's even more valuable in the proper context. The Red Sox will use him to backup their infielders, and, while he doesn't have Lowrie's bat, he is the best defensive player on the bench now.
He has been worth about five wins above replacement total since 2008, in essentially two seasons and change time (1,271 plate appearances, 375 games). That's not amazing, but it's plenty of positive production from a bench piece. His bat isn't his defining feature, but he did hit .278/.388/.421 for the Cardinals last year. That being said, his career OPS+ suggests a defense-first bench player more than it does a two-way player.
The second year might raise some eyebrows -- even if he is useful, he is Nick Punto -- but with Scutaro's deal over after this year, already knowing that at least part of the shortstop questions are answered is a good thing. The costs are also low enough that his contract can be eaten if he is a disaster.
Is there going to be a shorter double play combination than the one the Red Sox will field the days Punto and Pedroia are at short and second?
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I hate "Character" signings
I suppose he plays good defense. That’s about the only good thing I can say about this signing
by South Coast Ghost on Dec 14, 2011 4:10 PM EST reply actions
Well, this isn't a character signing.
He’s a good bench player who just signed for cheaper than the going rate for good bench players. What’s the problem?
He's a good defensive replaccement
That’s about it. Which is fine considering our current SS is average and our current 3B is below average. But still, he couldn’t hit his way out of a wet, already partially torn paper bag.
by South Coast Ghost on Dec 14, 2011 4:17 PM EST up reply actions
Hopefully
He won’t have to hit often. They needed some D on the bench, though.
Twitter: @Marc_Normandin
by Marc Normandin on Dec 14, 2011 4:18 PM EST up reply actions
although, he could easily fit in said paper bag
and get into a situation where he needs to hit out of it.
Youk is not a below average defender at 3B
He started off slow, found his feet, then got hurt. He’ll be fine in 2012.
Don't underestimate that good defense
The Red Sox need a solid backup with Youk coming off an injury. Punto can play 3B and SS at least once a week and 2B once or twice a month to keep Pedrioa fresh. Nobody is expecting Punto light the world on fire.
That...
…they had a cheaper, better bench player in Lowrie and once two IFs (Count on it) go to the DL, we’ll see several games of Aviles and Punto. So we traded Lowrie and Weiland for 300 PA of Nick Punto and 50 innings of MR Melancon.
I would have rather had Lowrie and Aviles, and signed a FA MR or just made one.
now…flame away.
1 year doesnt make me think 'proven'...
…but I side with the group-think on this. I think he’ll be fine.
There are gonna be some tough times ahead this year though when basically it’s Ellsbury, AGon, Pedroia…a mediocre Papi…and a bunch of junk.
So you're writing off
Youkilis, Scutaro, Papi ("mediocre), Crawford, and Lavarnway, to name a few? That seems…presumptuous.
Im writing off
Scoots and Youk to the DL at some point, yep. Crawford and Lavarnway? Yup.
Didn't know .309, 29 HRs was mediocre...
but take it as you will…..
And remember, this offense filled with “junk” finished nearly tops in every offensive category last season. Its not the offense, it’s the pitching, and we just upgraded our bullpen today, so I don’t get your tough times ahead comment.
by greenlemonade102 on Dec 14, 2011 4:36 PM EST up reply actions
I'm saying
Papi will be mediocre in 2012, not that he was. Just my pessimistic projection.
I don't see any reason to believe that to be the case.
If anything I think Gonzo has added a couple years to his career. I think the way he ended up hitting in 2009 and 2010 show that the slow starts were more of an aberration rather than the rule of what we may expect.
Joe, the reason we shout "WE ARE" and the reason the answer will always be "PENN STATE"
by Rogue Nine on Dec 14, 2011 4:48 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Also, where do 50 innings and MR come from?
He’s going to set up or close, and throw more innings than that.
Twitter: @Marc_Normandin
by Marc Normandin on Dec 14, 2011 4:22 PM EST up reply actions
Better offensively sure
Even if you think Lowrie’s defense was underrated, Punto’s is still probably much better.
So there’s at least that.
by South Coast Ghost on Dec 14, 2011 4:27 PM EST up reply actions
What Punto lacks in bat to Lowrie, he makes up with much better defense. Lowrie sucks as a defender. Plus Punto gets a very good share of walks, and isn’t as injury prone as Lowrie, so really I consider Punto just as valuable as lowrie, and we also got a very quality reliever who is under team control for many seasons at the price of peanuts. Also, Melancon might just be our set-up man and could get Bard’s innings from last season. So really we upgraded our bullpen while maintaining our bench.
by greenlemonade102 on Dec 14, 2011 4:27 PM EST up reply actions
Dammit, just posted my first fanpost on this!
Whatever. I really like this deal. He slides perfectly into Lowrie’s spot.
by Anthony Emerson on Dec 14, 2011 4:17 PM EST reply actions
Oooh, Benny's wheelin' and dealin' now!
I don’t really get this.
Man, it took me a while to realize that was a kid in the picture.
I thought Punto was about 12 feet tall.
The "kid" is actually Punto
Twitter: @Marc_Normandin
by Marc Normandin on Dec 14, 2011 4:22 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Cheap deal and Great defense
I’ll take it. I know that the .278 from last season is not what he really is, but maybe he can do that again, and we all know that he will get his walks and provide a decent OBP.
by greenlemonade102 on Dec 14, 2011 4:21 PM EST reply actions
If you don't appreciate Scutaro
then you haven’t been watching the kind of players most teams have at shortstop.
Yeah...
…the most irrational of Sean’s irrational hates is definitely Marco Scutaro.
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
OTM | Silver Seven
Well, he's a career .249 hitter.
I think .278 last year was a fluke.
by Anthony Emerson on Dec 14, 2011 4:22 PM EST up reply actions
I'm not seeing..
…‘get his walks’ from looking at his stats. I guess maybe…
…man he must have been Ozzie Smith for Minnie in 2007, cause that is just horrible.
I'm going to assume theis 'great D' meme..
…is your alls scout eyeballs (Not being sarcastic) cause it’s sure not showing up in dWar.
Career UZR:
2B: 6.9
3B: 19
SS: 18.1
It’s there, not just a meme
by South Coast Ghost on Dec 14, 2011 4:38 PM EST up reply actions
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2011/12/red-sox-to-sign-nick-punto-.html
“UZR suggests Punto is a strong defender at short, second and third. Overall, he has been an above-average defender in each season that he’s logged significant MLB playing time.”
by greenlemonade102 on Dec 14, 2011 4:39 PM EST up reply actions
#redsox did have some significant concerns about left side of infield defense; issue badly exposed last Sept. Punto helps address that.
-Speier
by South Coast Ghost on Dec 14, 2011 4:36 PM EST reply actions
They said the same thing about Cameron too
..I’m not big on 34 yr.+ ‘great defenders’. Just MHO.
Well, true
Although Cameron was signed to start. Punto at least isn’t.
by South Coast Ghost on Dec 14, 2011 4:41 PM EST up reply actions
And Cameron was injured just about the whole season
by greenlemonade102 on Dec 14, 2011 4:42 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe not to start the season
But Scutaro always seems to end up with something, he may play through it, but he’s getting older too, not sure how much longer he’s going to be doing that.
Joe, the reason we shout "WE ARE" and the reason the answer will always be "PENN STATE"
Sure, definitely possible
But we should have depth at SS now to cover it. Punto, maybe Aviles, Iglesias as a call-up.
by South Coast Ghost on Dec 14, 2011 4:56 PM EST up reply actions
Nobody touch Punto's stomach
In case it rips open like Cameron’s did
Twitter: @Marc_Normandin
by Marc Normandin on Dec 14, 2011 4:43 PM EST up reply actions
Hey now!
Derek Jeter got Gold Gloves at 35 and 36!
Joe, the reason we shout "WE ARE" and the reason the answer will always be "PENN STATE"
He's history's greatest monster!
Who are we talking about again?
The Year of Extreme Opinions
"It is so on that things have now become very much like Donkey Kong."
by nuthinboutnuthin on Dec 14, 2011 4:45 PM EST reply actions
Organize the villagers!
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
OTM | Silver Seven
I am really, really confused by all this.
I mean….how did the kid from Jerry Maguire, a movie from 1996 not age at all in the last 15 years.
Oh that’s Punto’s son in the picture, you say? Well then….mystery is solved.
by The Name is Dalton on Dec 14, 2011 4:51 PM EST reply actions
As I said to Ben via IM earlier
I also made the picture him [Punto] celebrating the World Series, because 1. Funny and 2. His kid looks like the kid from Jerry Maguire
Twitter: @Marc_Normandin
by Marc Normandin on Dec 14, 2011 4:53 PM EST up reply actions
That kid is gonna look so cute playing catch with Big Papi's kid
that ALONE will generate at least 0.5 WAR.
I think you mean 0.5 WAaaaaawwwww
by South Coast Ghost on Dec 14, 2011 5:11 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
REC'D
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
OTM | Silver Seven
Wait, I see it now.
“Getting defensive” signing older players in a seeming “bridge year”… sonofanutcracker… WE’RE GOING TO SIGN JOHN LACKEY AGAIN!
Joe, the reason we shout "WE ARE" and the reason the answer will always be "PENN STATE"
They also could have...
…just promoted Iglesias and saved some money. Screw arb clocks and AB reps!! We all know he’s never gonna make it with his bat.
admittedly, this is way outside the box.
He needs those reps
Or else he’ll hit even worse than Punto
Twitter: @Marc_Normandin
by Marc Normandin on Dec 14, 2011 5:00 PM EST up reply actions
This is simply not a good idea.
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
OTM | Silver Seven
Per Cafardo
Red Sox did not submit a posting on Yu Darvish.
Interesting.
Joe, the reason we shout "WE ARE" and the reason the answer will always be "PENN STATE"
There is a good chance he wont sign with the team
who posted. So dont be sad, Sox might get another bite at the apple in 2 years.
Because attempting to acquire starting pitching...
... just smacks of too effort. Lame.*
————————————
* – translated from Freshman-Philosophy-Major-with-a-Black-Turtleneck-and-Clove-Cigarettes (and possibly a beret – basically RevHalofan minus 40-or-so years).
The Year of Extreme Opinions
"It is so on that things have now become very much like Donkey Kong."
by nuthinboutnuthin on Dec 14, 2011 6:44 PM EST up reply actions
UGH
I’ve been more positive than most on the moves made so far, but this bums me out deeply. I’m totally sold on Darvish; he’s gonna make some FO look very, very smart.
I wouldn't have minded if the Sox had bid on Darvish, but think of it this way.
If the Yankees get him, that might take them out of some possible trades for some of the other pitchers on the market, so that’s a good thing. If the Rangers, who have the best farm system in baseball, get him, maybe it will take them out of the same trades for potential starters, which they could easily acquire if they wanted to give up their top prospects, but if they get Darvish maybe that will lower their urgency trading for a Garza, or Danks, or Gio. Meaning it would be easier for the Sox to compete.
by aubatron2011 on Dec 14, 2011 10:27 PM EST up reply actions
Hearing the Yankee's bid was token and the winning bid is higher than the Matsuzaka posting.
Joe, the reason we shout "WE ARE" and the reason the answer will always be "PENN STATE"
Still if it's the Rangers, that's kind of better anyway.
by aubatron2011 on Dec 14, 2011 11:11 PM EST up reply actions
I don't want the Rangers to get him.
If he works out, they could very well be back in their third straight series.
Joe, the reason we shout "WE ARE" and the reason the answer will always be "PENN STATE"
I dunno about that
Losing Wilson and having him go to Anaheim was a big blow.
You build on failure. You use it as a stepping stone. Close the door on the past. You don't try to forget the mistakes, but you don't dwell on it. You don't let it have any of your energy, or any of your time, or any of your space.
-Johnny Cash
by TheLoneDavid on Dec 15, 2011 5:04 PM EST up reply actions
Sure… but getting Darvish may very well replace him and them some. If he works out, which as I’ve said before, could be a rather big if.
Joe, the reason we shout "WE ARE" and the reason the answer will always be "PENN STATE"
But them getting Darvish may take them out the trade market for proven SP.
They have the best farm system in baseball, they could get any pitcher available if they wanted to. That way them getting Darvish benefits the Sox because they have less competition and may have better packages to offer.
by aubatron2011 on Dec 15, 2011 9:19 PM EST up reply actions
I'd still prefer to see the best team in the AL for the last two years get weaker
Joe, the reason we shout "WE ARE" and the reason the answer will always be "PENN STATE"
Losing Wilson. Adding Neftali Feliz, who's like our Bard, to their rotation
And if they do add Yu, I’d say they got weaker, until I see how Feliz and Darvish perform.
by aubatron2011 on Dec 15, 2011 10:46 PM EST up reply actions
What are you arguing?
I’ve predicated both of my statement as “If Darvish works out”. If Darvish works out, he’s a straight up replacement for CJ. They’ll have depth too with Feliz and Feldman.
Joe, the reason we shout "WE ARE" and the reason the answer will always be "PENN STATE"
Yeah, but you won't know how Feliz will perform as a starter.
And maybe they decide to trade Feldman. So adding Yu might create more problems then solutions.
by aubatron2011 on Dec 15, 2011 11:31 PM EST up reply actions
Hmmm
Does anyone here want Feldman?
You build on failure. You use it as a stepping stone. Close the door on the past. You don't try to forget the mistakes, but you don't dwell on it. You don't let it have any of your energy, or any of your time, or any of your space.
-Johnny Cash
by TheLoneDavid on Dec 15, 2011 11:32 PM EST up reply actions
If they get Darvish and if Darvish is good
Feliz is the #6 in that rotation. They’ve got four other guys from last year. So it really doesn’t matter how Feliz would do since he’d probably be back in the pen.
I doubt any team is passing on Darvish because they think he creates problems…
Joe, the reason we shout "WE ARE" and the reason the answer will always be "PENN STATE"
They signed Nathan so they could move
Feliz to the rotation. They aren’t moving him back.
by aubatron2011 on Dec 16, 2011 9:47 AM EST up reply actions
Well if they get Darvish
They have 5 starters already and the four behind Darvish were all very good last year. Feliz and his walk rate would be a huge risk as a starter, but he can get away with it as a reliever. I don’t think Joe Nathan and his 4.84 ERA from last season are standing in anyones way to anything. Nathan could just as easily set up for Feliz as he could close.
Joe, the reason we shout "WE ARE" and the reason the answer will always be "PENN STATE"
Right, it might replace them, but the Angels got a lot better for two or three years too.
You build on failure. You use it as a stepping stone. Close the door on the past. You don't try to forget the mistakes, but you don't dwell on it. You don't let it have any of your energy, or any of your time, or any of your space.
-Johnny Cash
by TheLoneDavid on Dec 15, 2011 10:17 PM EST up reply actions
Eh
Darvish, once again, if he works out, adequately replaces Wilson and their offense still beats the crap out of LA’s. It’s would be a little more even, but I think Texas would have the solid edge on them.
Joe, the reason we shout "WE ARE" and the reason the answer will always be "PENN STATE"
Wow... more than $50 million?
And that’s the kind of posting where Darvish has said he wouldn’t sign with the team, right? Since he doesn’t like the system?
I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.
Wait ’til next year!
Does the team pay the posting fee if he doesn't sign?
Or only if he does?
I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.
Wait ’til next year!
Only if he does
Curious to see how the negotiations turn out
by South Coast Ghost on Dec 15, 2011 3:10 PM EST up reply actions
WOW!!! You guys are tough .
Punto is actually a very nice utility player . He is best suited for infield , but can also play outfield , and is a switch-hitter . People were talking about not wanting to lose Lowery’s WAR , well Punto has had a WAR of 5 over the past 2 seasons . I’d say that beats the crap out of of Lowery’s WAR .
And 5 WAR?
From where?
I see 3.1 at fangraphs and 2.2 at BR. Lowrie is at 2.4 or 2.2 respectively.
Joe, the reason we shout "WE ARE" and the reason the answer will always be "PENN STATE"
Regardless that's
5.3 million and 7.9 million worth of WAR over the last two years that was just signed for 3 million
The other thing to consider is that the bulk of that value came last year
And last year was a bit of an aberration compared to his career statistics. Could be his real skill level, but sort of an odd time for it to show up.
Joe, the reason we shout "WE ARE" and the reason the answer will always be "PENN STATE"
WEll he put up some pretty good years in Minnesota
2006: 3.4 WAR, 16 UZR
2008: 2.7 WAR, 10.2 UZR
Obviously a lot of his value comes from the fielding side, but luckily that’s what we signed him for.
The WAR of 5 is over the past 3 seasons. From FanGraphs:
Punto rates as a better defender than Lowrie by both DRS and UZR (although don’t trust the number too much, as both players have had limited playing time), and Lowrie has the slight nod over Punto offensively. Punto is older, but he’s also been considerably more productive than Lowrie over the past three seasons (4.9 WAR to 1.9 WAR). At worst, Punto and Lowrie are essentially a wash. At best, the Red Sox improved their bench by a small amount.
by textandaction on Dec 14, 2011 7:21 PM EST up reply actions
Punto is a good pickup
The guy is a fantastic defensive player. He and Furcal solidified the middle of the St.Louis infield, something they desperately needed as they made their incredible run to the WS title. I can’t believe the Cards let him go; he’s so much better than Skip Schmaker.
Fangraphs impressed with today's activity
“Now that’s more what I expect to see from the Red Sox. Impressive, Cherington. Most impressive.”
I like it
needed a guy like this, Lowrie’s defense was painful to watch.
The 2011 Over the Monster Gedman League Fantasy Baseball Champion
I hate free agency
Great moves today and yesterday
Impressed, but still want to see starting pitching added. Not Saunders.
The 2011 Over the Monster Gedman League Fantasy Baseball Champion
I hate free agency
I am more like, "Okay, fine, Joe Saunders will work"
Then I am, “Yay, Joe Saunders”. All depends on the price, as he’s only worth so much for his 200 innings of semi-usefulness.
Twitter: @Marc_Normandin
by Marc Normandin on Dec 14, 2011 6:57 PM EST up reply actions
I could live with Saunders
on a one year deal, if we add a different (better) 4th starter and make Bard closer.
The 2011 Over the Monster Gedman League Fantasy Baseball Champion
I hate free agency
Would rather Bard start
But you know this.
Twitter: @Marc_Normandin
by Marc Normandin on Dec 14, 2011 7:07 PM EST up reply actions
terrible idea
you want the mans arm to fall off
The 2011 Over the Monster Gedman League Fantasy Baseball Champion
I hate free agency
I don't think that's the problem
I think part of the problem is that his speed is part of what made him so effective as a reliever. If he throws that hard his arm WILL fall off, likely he’ll take his velocity into the mid-90s and I would imagine that will change his mechanics a bit and potentially limit his effectiveness.
Joe, the reason we shout "WE ARE" and the reason the answer will always be "PENN STATE"
And rest and all that is far more regimented for starters, too.
Twitter: @Marc_Normandin
by Marc Normandin on Dec 14, 2011 7:31 PM EST up reply actions
its a move that makes no sense
The 2011 Over the Monster Gedman League Fantasy Baseball Champion
I hate free agency
It certainly does not.
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
OTM | Silver Seven
I hope the Bard Starting its just a statement to lower the price of madson, Bailey and other relievers...
Hoping to became a Stud!
NO
No more relievers dammit. Sign a pitcher who can fucking start.
You build on failure. You use it as a stepping stone. Close the door on the past. You don't try to forget the mistakes, but you don't dwell on it. You don't let it have any of your energy, or any of your time, or any of your space.
-Johnny Cash
by TheLoneDavid on Dec 15, 2011 11:42 AM EST up reply actions
it would do the opposite of that
it would make it look like we need relievers more than otherwise- and therefore probably raise their relative cost. It would make it look like we weren’t as desperate for a starting pitcher- and mayyyyyybe bring their price down a little.
And this is my hope... that this is the real reason we're reporting Bard will be starting.
Sign more SPs!!
I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.
Wait ’til next year!
I think it makes us look desperate period.
We’re so desperate that we’re willing to weaken an already weakened pen further by trying to make Bard a starter, as uncertain as that prospect is.
Joe, the reason we shout "WE ARE" and the reason the answer will always be "PENN STATE"
OK sure, if you want to think that
but my point there was that this doesn’t bring down the price of relievers any.
I just don't think it brings us any leverage in any situation.
Certainly not in relief.
Joe, the reason we shout "WE ARE" and the reason the answer will always be "PENN STATE"
But now with Melancon,
we don’t look nearly as desperate for relievers.
Punto
I agree with everything said, contradictions included.
I'm so glad I never have to read ever again:
“Lowrie is not injury prone he has only had one (two, three, four) injury”
The 2011 Over the Monster Gedman League Fantasy Baseball Champion
I hate free agency
Lowrie had his monents
But he made Dice-K look consistent. He’s a natural for the Astros.
Still no starting pitching
You've got to know your limitations. I don't know what your limitations are. I found out what mine were when I was twelve. I found out that there weren't too many limitations, if I did it my way.
-Johnny Cash
Mark Prior
what we are looking for
The 2011 Over the Monster Gedman League Fantasy Baseball Champion
I hate free agency
Wait... did we actually sign Mark Prior??
I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.
Wait ’til next year!
I could see that for sure
The 2011 Over the Monster Gedman League Fantasy Baseball Champion
I hate free agency
I would be thrilled with that
although even after both of those happened, I would be wondering why the hell we got Saunders. I would rather start Aceves. I have no interest in Saunders, at all.
Saunders always throws 200 innings.
Name a pitcher we currently have that does that.
well he's done it twice in his 6 year career
yes, he can throw 200 shitty innings. If that’s what we’re looking for, we can keep Wake around for less and just leave him out there till he throws 200 innings.
Lester has thrown 200 innings three times in the same time period.
As has Beckett.
Yeah, over 200 twice and pretty much did it again a third time
So he doesn’t always throw 200 innings.
And it’s kinda hard to throw 200 innings when you’re getting knocked out of the game by the 5th for giving up 7 runs to the Yankees.
by South Coast Ghost on Dec 15, 2011 10:37 AM EST up reply actions
I feel like the last time we went and got a guy who "always" throws 200 innings...
… we got Jeff Suppan.
Anyone remember how that worked out in the AL East??
(200 innings pitched from 1999 – 2003 – split 141/63 between Pittsburgh and Boston in 2003… ERAs of 4.53, 4.94, 4.37, 5.32, and 4.19 in 2003… of course, that 4.19 was as a 3.57 for Pittsburgh, and a 5.57 for Boston.)
Yes, let’s stay the hell away from Saunders!!
I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.
Wait ’til next year!
It's likely irrational based on his time with the Angels
But I really hate Joe Saunders.
The only good thing anybody can say about him is “He eats innings”.
Screw that, where the hell are Jackson and Maholm? They must be laying low until the Darvish bidding has been revealed and teams go scrambling for pitching.
by South Coast Ghost on Dec 15, 2011 3:16 PM EST up reply actions
he can throw 200 shitty innings
Where are we going to get the other 350 shitty innings from?
The Year of Extreme Opinions
"It is so on that things have now become very much like Donkey Kong."
by nuthinboutnuthin on Dec 15, 2011 3:31 PM EST up reply actions
alright, stat fail on my part to an extent.
But if you’re just under or at 200 innings for 5 straight years with pretty good control, and you usually outperform your peripherals, then you might be Joe Saunders. If Wake had pitched 200 innings last year, he would’ve kept bombing and bombing, and most likely ended up with worse numbers than Lackey. Saunders at the right price would be adequate pitching depth.
Once again, please see my previous example: Suppan, Jeff
1999, 2000, 2001, 2002 and 2003. 5 years of 200 plus innings, and an absolute disaster for 63 innings in Boston.
I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.
Wait ’til next year!
I think Saunders is a little better.
And Suppan was more of a NL-only pitcher than Saunders is.
Yes, but his AL pitching was the AL West, right?
You know… Oakland’s Coliseum, Angels Stadium, Kaufman Stadium, Safeco Field… these aren’t exactly the hitters parks that exist in the AL East.
I’d argue that even his AL experience leans towards the NL quality, and that Suppan is a pretty good comparison.
I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.
Wait ’til next year!
You're right, Saunders might totally bomb here,
and we should go for higher quality. But we really need someone who isn’t likely to break down, and at least Saunders is that. Wake is certain to break down if we lean on him for innings, so he’s out
Can we swap Saunders for Maholm
and Oswalt for Kuroda?
You've got to know your limitations. I don't know what your limitations are. I found out what mine were when I was twelve. I found out that there weren't too many limitations, if I did it my way.
-Johnny Cash
by TheLoneDavid on Dec 14, 2011 11:59 PM EST up reply actions
he also screams "best pitcher available"
so it depends on the deal he’ll get. Probably if he’ll sign a two year deal, I want him more than anyone else.
I like him too.
But injuries are usually the downfall of our starting pitching. He’ll be pretty expensive too.
With Beckett basically a walking back spasm
and Buch recovering from another back injury, I’m not sure I want another injury prone guy on the team, my pinings fro Bedard aside.
You build on failure. You use it as a stepping stone. Close the door on the past. You don't try to forget the mistakes, but you don't dwell on it. You don't let it have any of your energy, or any of your time, or any of your space.
-Johnny Cash
by TheLoneDavid on Dec 15, 2011 5:06 PM EST up reply actions
yeah, there's definitely some risk
I dunno, Oswalt got hurt cleaning up from a hurricane last year, not playing baseball. I guess I just have some faith he’ll be safer this year, but yeah, I can understand the trepidation.
So to wrap up the moves
The Sox have basically gone from
Lowrie, Weiland and Varitek
to
Punto, Melancon and Shoppach, plus some minor $$
Really Sean?
I thought you would like both the trade and Punto
The 2011 Over the Monster Gedman League Fantasy Baseball Champion
I hate free agency
I like the trade
Don’t ever like spending money on bad players. Would pretty much always give someone in AAA a shot.
We just lost our utility man in the Melancon trade
And now we have another one. Makes perfect sense.
by Anthony Emerson on Dec 14, 2011 9:21 PM EST up reply actions
and the new utility man can field, and is not on the DL all the time
The 2011 Over the Monster Gedman League Fantasy Baseball Champion
I hate free agency
I love the idea of Melancon
as a set up guy
The 2011 Over the Monster Gedman League Fantasy Baseball Champion
I hate free agency
I do too...
… as long as the closer is Bard.
Don’t spend money on closers when we need SPs first. Saunders and Oswalt, fine. Madson? No.
I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.
Wait ’til next year!
beginning to wonder if the whole Bard thing is smokescreen
for possible leverage in negotiations. Something like – “well we would really like to have you over here, but we are thinking of starting Bard so we really don’t NEED to sign you” or something – one can only hope
Huh...maybe you're right.
Hope you’re right…
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
OTM | Silver Seven
I'm on board with that too.
I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.
Wait ’til next year!
Let's say Bard becomes the closer
with Malencon, Jenks, Morales, Albers the bridge to the 9th. Is no one here comfortable with Acevas or Doubront starting?
I'd be fine with it
I’d rather have a real starter, but I’d like to think that either would be an OK fifth starter. I’d probably prefer giving Doubront a shot.
And we’d still need a starter, because that would only be 4
Not Aceves
His starter/reliever splits are pronounced to say the least.
I’d give Doubront another shot, but after he screwed around last offseason when he had a chance to make something of himself, I don’t have a lot of faith in him.
Joe, the reason we shout "WE ARE" and the reason the answer will always be "PENN STATE"
I wouldn't trust Jenks
I think Aceves needs to be in that role
You've got to know your limitations. I don't know what your limitations are. I found out what mine were when I was twelve. I found out that there weren't too many limitations, if I did it my way.
-Johnny Cash
by TheLoneDavid on Dec 15, 2011 12:02 AM EST up reply actions
He's a good defensive utility guy, just don't expect him to hit.
Like you said, a defense-first bench player. His .278/.388/.421 line from last year is misleading, since he didn’t have a lot of PAs and took most of them batting 8th in front of the pitcher. When he was with the Twins, we could never count on his bat – has some years with good average, some very bad average, very little power, but does take a good amount of walks. He’ll give you some amazing defensive plays, but also the occasional boneheaded move, such as sliding head-first into first base.
He’s also a meme machine. See Nick Punto Day 2010 over at Twinkie Town.
No further comment…
"Nobody wants to hear me rap." - Joe Mauer
"The more toppings a man has on his pizza, I believe the more manly he is." - Herman Cain
by what_would_gil_thorp_do on Dec 15, 2011 1:07 AM EST reply actions
That's the one thing I did notice
Sometimes his average drops of the planet, but his OBP is usually around league average. Plus if he hits his HR in April we won’t have to spend the rest of the season in anticipation of it. I don’t handle surprises well.
Joe, the reason we shout "WE ARE" and the reason the answer will always be "PENN STATE"
I don't mean to go off topic here
But I now have the best goddamn signature for the 2011-2012 offseason. This needs to be posted in every fucking room in the Red Sox front office.
You build on failure. You use it as a stepping stone. Close the door on the past. You don't try to forget the mistakes, but you don't dwell on it. You don't let it have any of your energy, or any of your time, or any of your space.
-Johnny Cash
I like it!
I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.
Wait ’til next year!
Love it
Punto is everything I want in a bench player. 1) Doesn’t care that he’s a bench player. 2) Plays solid defense at several positions. 3) Doesn’t get injured often. 4) Cheap.
He even used to steal some bases when he was in Minny…not that he’s Dave Roberts or anything, but it doesn’t hurt to have someone else who can run the bases for Papi or one of the catchers.
Also I think some people are overrating Lowrie’s bat. I had high hopes for him after he posted good numbers in spurts, but he’s proven time and again that he’s one of the most inconsistent hitters in baseball. Throw in very mediocre defense, and the injuries were just the nail in the coffin.
by Aluminum Penguin on Dec 15, 2011 6:54 AM EST reply actions
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