I think we're overlooking something here:
by LesterJohn on Nov 7, 2011 2:26 AM EST
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PrintLet me throw out a few stats for a guy that everyone seems to be overlooking:
In 2009, at AA, he pitched to a 3.35 ERA with 119 hits, 101 Ks and 52 BBs in 121 innings.
In 2010, between AA and AAA, he pitched to a 2.81 ERA with 75 hits, 72 Ks and 33 BBs in 80 innings, while coming up to the bigs and pitching 25 innings, including 3 starts, having reasonably good success, with a 4.32 ERA.
In 2011, at AAA, he had a 3.96 ERA with 69 hits, 74 Ks and 26 walks in 77 innings. Injuries kept him from sticking in the bigs.
These stats belong to Felix Doubront. Now, aside from a few nagging injuries in 2011, this guy has been consistently good, shown good control, good stuff, and good composure. All these stats are even more impressive when you consider that he has always been a year under the age curve.
There are two holes in the current Red Sox starting rotation: one is likely (hopefully) going to be filled by free agent Erik Bedard, who showed that he is a capable #4 starter. As for the last opening, there have been talks of Darvish, talks of big trades, and talks of smaller trades, while of course considering the slim pickings of the FA market. Starting pitching IS NOT CHEAP, no matter which way you slice it. Even a Chris Capuano or John Garland could command a multiyear deal, and any trade for a starter would require the Sox to give more than market value.
My plea to the Red Sox organization: let Felix Doubront start--not for the PawSox, but for the Boston Red Sox. He is here, he is cheap, and he deserves his shot.
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Was Ben C. Referring to
Felix Doubront when referring to internal options? If he gets working over the winter, conditioning and shoulder program, why wouldn’t he be ready? Why wouldn’t he be at least as good a #5 as those under consideration? We aren’t getting Oswalt, Beuhrle, CJWilson and Darvish is a crap shoot from lottery to first pitch. Question: how would the rotation fare with three (that’s 3) lefties? He’s been relegated to the Pen on this and other sites, and reluctantly, because he is out of options, but the numbers you post are as a starter. So why not start him. Use possible SP $$ to bring back Papelbon and get low $$ depth, such as getting Harden or Francis to start in the Pen. Just make sure Doubront comes to camp healthy and committed, which won’t take that much guidance and resource finding.
Doubront
Please, don’t give us Jeff Francis,Jon Garland or Rich Harden. I would rather entrust Felix with the 5th spot,and Bobby will make sure he is in shape. Certainly a good idea, unless you could package him with others for Gio Gonzalez and Andrew Bailey, Felix H and Brandon League, Matt Cain and Roberto Ramirez,Nick Markakis and Jim Johnson, or Chris and Roberto Perez.
I would have no problem with Doubront
He has been consistently good, and I think he does deserve a shot. Plus, we would save a lot of money/prospects from not going after an elite pitcher. Our hitting is good enough that we don’t need a Lincecum or Hernandez.
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Clarification
Injuries kept him from sticking in the bigs.
I thought it was Felix showing up fat and out-of-shape for spring training that kept him from the bigs. If that’s the case, then I don’t think he deserves a spot in the line-up unless he shows up this year ripped and mows down everybody he sees in ST.
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
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One led to the other was the general consensus IIRC.
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That's what I thought
and reinforces my point. If a guy who could have been fighting for a roster spot shows up looking like he was on the Fatkins diet, then I question whether he’s got the mental make-up of someone I want on my team. Go to Pawtucket and prove it to me.
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
OTM | Silver Seven
Unfortunately that's likely out of the picture
Since Felix is out of options.
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Swell.
Dumbass.
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
OTM | Silver Seven
Him, I assume? And hope?
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by Ben Buchanan on Nov 7, 2011 11:42 AM EST up reply actions
Oh, God, yes.
Absolutely.
Certainly not the bearer of the bad news.
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
OTM | Silver Seven
Ha ha ha!
Nice restraint by Ben to not assume you meant him there.
Good laugh for this exchange (if not the topic itself).
Agree with your point, though… if he doesn’t show up in peak form when he’s got a chance to make the rotation, I’m not convinced he’s competitive enough to hold a spot in the Sox rotation.
Happy to have him prove me wrong, though.
I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.
Wait ’til next year!
Yeah...
thankfully, I think I’ve built up enough goodwill here that people know that I’m not the type to flat-out call posters here an idiot/dumbass/etc. I mean, I can get a little fiery at times, but I try not to be completely ignorant.
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
OTM | Silver Seven
If he shows up in shape
Then I think he is a fairly decent option. Although, I don’t think they should rely on that being the case without picking up one or two cost-effective arms. Better to go in as our 6th option for when we inevitably have injuries. Which is all but certain if we have Bedard.
by The Name is Dalton on Nov 7, 2011 7:35 AM EST reply actions
Honestly if there's one guy who I think is really overlooked for his chances to contribute in 2012, it's Alex Wilson.
Guy had a really great 2011, and while I’m not sure how his current arsenal can survive as a starter long-term without some more development, as is I’d love to see how he performs as a spot starter and then reliever should the position be open for the rest of the year.
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I believe Wilson could be a real 8th inning option if the need arises
His fastball is good in small spurts and while im not taking away from what he did last year, I really dont see him as anything more than a reliever in the bigs. I would sell high. Doubront couldve been an option but he decided he didnt really want to.
The thing about Wilson is that his viability as a starter relies on a third good pitch
And while you’d like him to already have it since he just turned 25, he started working on it so late that you kind of have to throw that out the window when considering whether or not he can develop it.
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by Ben Buchanan on Nov 7, 2011 11:44 AM EST up reply actions
+1
I think we need to plan on a guy like Wilson getting between 3-6 MLB starts as a spot guy and then moving into a bullpen role for the stretch just like Buchholz and Masterson did in year’s past. This limits his innings, keeps him starting at AAA and then grooms him with more ML experience in the pennant race.
As for Doubront, he definitely should factor into our plans in ’12, but due to the injuries he should be eased back into the rotation with spots starters and LOOGY work, ideally he gives us a second Aceves for long/spot/high leverage work all season long.
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by Mattsullivan on Nov 7, 2011 11:34 AM EST up reply actions
I fully support letting Felix go into the year stretched out and ready to start
and compete in spring training. That said, if our plans for the year include Bedard as our #4 starter, I would much rather have the depth of having a different #5 starter, with Felix coming out of the pen and being prepared to join the rotation when someone gets injured. If there’s anything the last two years have taught us, it’s that depth is absolutely critical.
Agreed. The "questionable prospect" needs to be the 6th man in the rotation
So that you can find out if he’s any good and, if not, move on to the next one instead of having a Wakefield type chew up opportunities with bad start after bad start.
If one of Doubront, Wilson, Weiland, and whoever else we bring in are going to prove capable, we have to find out before the stretch run.
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by Ben Buchanan on Nov 7, 2011 11:46 AM EST up reply actions
Ideally, you sign a bunch of depth guys. Maybe a John Garland or Chris Capuano
who could start right away, and then a few reclamation projects (Kazmir, Kyle Davies).
John Lackey: Boston hates you
Those two aren't really reclamation projects.
They’re more like… grocery baggers.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
DFA Rev Halofan, The New York Yankees, The Tampa Bay Blue Seats, Carl Crawford, John Lackey, Darnell McDonald, Dave Magadan, Tim Bogar, Buck Showalter, Dan Johnson, Hawk Harrelson, Jonah Keri, Murray Chass, Mark Sanchez, Micheal Vick, Jared Allen, Jerry Jones, Al Davis, Rex Ryan, Rob Ryan, Trent Dilfer, Heath Evans, Cris Carter, Vuvuzelas, The Chicken Dance, Lady Gaga, Justin Bieber, Stephanie Meyer, and the entire fucking city of Philadelphia.
Sure, give Dubront his shot
But he has to step up and perform, especially now that he is out of options. I fully expect the Sox to sign a mid-level veteran FA pitcher like Harden or Jackson, etc. They have to try to get a guy they can count on to give them innings. What is the deal with Bedard? is he a FA or under Sox control? Bedard seems to have good stuff, although he has difficulty staying healthy.
Bedard is a FA.
As for Jackson, he will get a 3 or even 4 year deal, so I’d rule him out. Harden is as much more inconsistent and very injury prone, so I’d say no unless its a flyer deal for about a million and 1 year.
John Lackey: Boston hates you
I don't really consider Harden to be a guy they can count on to give them alot of innings
He might be a decent depth signing, though.
by The Name is Dalton on Nov 7, 2011 7:16 PM EST up reply actions
If they sign Bedard and Harden to be the #4 and 5.
Then sign someone like Ben Sheets to be the reclamation project in the minors it could work. At the very least they’d have a good vet in the minors to teach the kids instead of Kevin Millwood.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
DFA Rev Halofan, The New York Yankees, The Tampa Bay Blue Seats, Carl Crawford, John Lackey, Darnell McDonald, Dave Magadan, Tim Bogar, Buck Showalter, Dan Johnson, Hawk Harrelson, Jonah Keri, Murray Chass, Mark Sanchez, Micheal Vick, Jared Allen, Jerry Jones, Al Davis, Rex Ryan, Rob Ryan, Trent Dilfer, Heath Evans, Cris Carter, Vuvuzelas, The Chicken Dance, Lady Gaga, Justin Bieber, Stephanie Meyer, and the entire fucking city of Philadelphia.
Keep forgetting about him. Definitely a possibility.
We are deeper, which again is why we can’t waste spot starts on guys who won’t do anything to actually shore up the back end.
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I see Doubront and Aceves
in the same light. Depending on what pitcher(s) the Sox acquire, and how they acquire them, both guys could be used as long men, with the capibility of spot starting, and also being relievers in the late innings as well.
I just think Doubront has what it takes.
I guess I can’t explain the showing up fat thing for ST last year, but he has a great downhill fastball, a changeup, and an impressive curveball. He has always seemed to have good makeup and composure on the mound, and the stats he’s put up the last 3 years leave little to be desired.
I understand that more depth is needed, but why not have Felix as your primary option? As Ben mentioned, there is a lot of depth, with Wilson, Tazawa, and Weiland able to start at AAA and come up if needed. Sign a few reclamation projects and a few other minor league deals who will be a bit more consistent (Capuano, Garland, Aaron Cook), and use them if Felix is ineffective.
At his age, it’s not good to switch him back and forth between the pen and the rotation (Hello, Michael Bowden). And considering that he is out of options, his chance should be given to him now.
John Lackey: Boston hates you
Well, one reason is because you can tell Felix where to go.
You can’t, say, sign a viable #4/5 as your #6 if they don’t want to be. Promise them the starting spot, hold Felix in the pen, and suddenly you’ve got a 6-deep rotation even if you’re only going to 5 at any point in time.
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Yep
Though I’d prefer to focus on the first year in that span.
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by Ben Buchanan on Nov 8, 2011 12:53 PM EST up reply actions
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