Win Every Year...We need rings!
by royredd87 on Nov 6, 2011 9:54 PM EST
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We are THE BOSTON RED SOX.
UPDATE: WE HAVE MONEY!
I've pretty much had enough of the bs. I really have. I understand all the little intricacies for the most part that allows a successful baseball team to run. I get it, it's a business. For the last 3 yrs or so maybe a bit longer i've heard phrases such as "bridge year", "good enough" "raw talent/high ceiling prospects" and most recently " lets pull a yankees" referring to low risk high reward type. On that last bit, what they Skyankees did last year with Colon and Garcia was pure awesome fluke. No-one knew what they were getting out of those two. NOBODY! Quite frankly I could care less but i have to because they are our biggest rivals and you tend to keep your enemies closer than your friends, or at least you should.
We are top 5 in payroll, we really shouldn't be operating like the Washington Nationals(a different discussion). Our awesome farm system that most people think we should keep in tact produced Kyle Weiland this year. Weiland is a bullpen arm at most not a starting must win September pitcher on the Boston Red Sox. The year before that in our "bridge year" I think we got Ryan Kalish, Darnell Mcdonald!YAY and First Pitch Wonder Boy Daniel Nava. Argue if you want about the Gonzalez Deal but those 3 pretty much stayed at their talent level before the trade and we couldve gotten Gonzalez this year. Those 3 werent ready for San Diego they wouldn't have been ready for us. We've had talent coming out of our farm system in years prior to the one mentioned I don't need to be reminded. However, as it stands today none of our prospects are a lock to contribute next year or maybe the year after that. I would love for them to prove me wrong I really would but I can't see it happening. In the area where we would need the help the most HINT: PITCHING..ahem..PITCHING! our farm system took major steps back. I love the kids don't get me wrong I'm on Soxprospects.com like it's tomorrow's home-work but we need to make a move for an ace pitcher. Let's try it the Philly way or last year's Brewers.
This organization needs to evaluate their system get Seattle, San Francisco and Oakland on the phone and make a deal for one of their starting pitchers. Quite frankly, if Seattle's GM does not move Hernandez he's an idiot. They aren't winning with the kid. They won't win with the kid. San Fran may move a starting pitcher to free up some salary cap and Oakland is in their yearly garage sale. Get a deal done. If it takes Middlebrooks, Iglesias, Bogaerts, Ranaudo, Lowrie, Reddick and Bard you do the deal. My previous Fan Posts was a generous one in regards to a trade because I haven't really seen any organization gut their system while providing salary relief for any player. We've seen Halladay, C. Lee twice or 3 times (whatever), Teixeira, D. Haren, C.C. Sabathia and quite a few other top tier talent, major league talent, moved.
After acquiring an ace we should go after Darvish. Forget about how much money he's gonna cost us. Fenway is on a consecutive sellout streak record of some kind last time I checked. We have crazy fans that are going to spend the money on gear. We'll have Japan and to some extent Iran on our network again. I'm pretty sure some of us were already lining up in our heads for Teixeira jerseys 3 years ago. The bottom line is PITCHING WINS CHAMPIONSHIPS! and too much is never enough. All the "armchair GM's" that are throwing out low risk/high reward acquisitions and hoping that our farm system will one day provide need to do some rethinking. We should be in win mode every year. Last time I checked we play to win. EVERY GAME! Wait til next year should be our slogan for repeat championships.
This is My Boston Red Sox for 2012.
1. Ellsbury
2. Pedroia
3. Gonzalez
4. Youkilis
5. Ortiz
6. Saltalamacchia/ Lavarnway
7. Crawford( who is going to kick ass next year)
8. Reddick/Kalish (whichever stays) / G.Sizemore?
9. Scutaro
Starting Pitching:
1. Hernandez/ Lincecum/ G. Gonzalez
2. Lester
3. Darvish
4. Buccholz
5. Beckett
Uh so what to do with Lackey you ask? Trade him eat salary. Hmm..Renteria, Lugo..J.D. Drew on the D.L
San Diego was discussing him internally before he needed Tommy John.
Bullpen:
CL: Papelbon
7th+8th Inning relief: A combination of Aceves(jewel), Morales, Bard(if not traded), Albers, Breslow? Bowden, Weiland(if not traded), Doubront (if not traded), Wilson(if not traded) and DL Jenks.
Luxury Tax?...PLEASE! After two disappointing years in 3rd Place...Did you read that..3rd Place, we need to make a move.
LETS GO WIN SOME CHAMPIONSHIPS.
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The thing is that in all those years you're so annoyed by...
The Sox spent tons and tons of money. Now it’s catching up to them, and yes, it is a business.
I mean, you say you get “it,” and then you throw out a plan which completely ignores “it.” Unless you have the Sox’ financials and can make a statement with a straight face on how much profit the owners should be reaping for their significant investment, then there’s not a lot to talk about.
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USG
We are in win mode.
Sometimes you just don’t have the resources to improve the product significantly year-in and year-out.
Over the Monster -- SB Nation's Resident Red Sox Site
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Nov 6, 2011 11:53 PM EST up reply actions
What's financially wrong here?
Hernandez is undervalued at the contract..Ichiro is in his walk year and figgins is making 9 mil…that assuming the Seattle scenario. All the while filling gaps.. Where in this are we going broke? Prospects are Prospects.
Those three guys
are going to make a combined $45 million in 2012. In 2013 Figgins and Felix combined will make 26.5. Felix is worth the money on his contract.
To trade a bunch of good, young players for essentially one year of Ichiro and three good years of Felix (making 18.5, 19.5, and 20) IS financially irresponsible. It’s irresponsible from a baseball sense as well.
And only Felix really fills a gap.
by The Name is Dalton on Nov 7, 2011 7:33 PM EST up reply actions
BTW
I would absolutely love to get Felix. But a price of Middlebrooks, Iglesias, Bogaerts, Ranaudo, Lowrie, Reddick and Bard is a hell of a price to pay, let alone taking Ichiro and Figgins over.
by The Name is Dalton on Nov 7, 2011 7:35 PM EST up reply actions
Free Accounting
The Sox could save some money by using one of OTM’s writers and posters as the team accountant. They would whittle the payroll down to 80 million if they could. The Sox have very little talent down below,and should be willing to trade any 4, except Middlebrooks. Bard,Lowrie, Reddick and Kalish,and yes, even Lavernway should be availble in a trade to bring Gio Gonzalez. and Grant Balfour,or Matt Cain and Roberto Ramarez,or King Felix.
Small typo
This:
“We have crazy fans that are going to spend the money on gear. We’ll have Japan and to some extent Iran on our network again.”
Should read:
“We have crazy fans.”
by Jake_W on Nov 6, 2011 10:45 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Seriously
People need to get off this “WE NEED FELIX OR LINCECUM” stuff. It…won’t…happen.
Low risk/high reward is the way to go. This team is NOT a bad team. This is the same team that was on pace to win nearly 100 games and still managed to win 90 with a myriad of injuries and a historically bad September.
Realistic fixes? Better conditioning, less screwing around in the clubhouse, a # 4/5 starter and a RF. Not too hard when you have two viable in house options.
“Our awesome farm system that most people think we should keep in tact produced Kyle Weiland this year.”
The farm is in a transitional phase at this point. Most of our high-level guys were either promoted (Bard, Reddick, Kalish, etc.) or traded (Rizzo). Weiland was thrust into a role that he probably wasn’t going to succeed in anyway. He is more of a bullpen arm at this stage, but saying “the system is no good, look at guys like Weiland” really isn’t accurate.
On Gonzalez: He would’ve been a free agent this year and last years team would’ve been substantially weaker.
NO ONE is going to trade elite, young, cost controlled pitching because it is such a difficult commodity to come by. In every one of your examples the key contributing factor was impending free agency. In Hernandez/Lincecum/Gonzalez’ case that is not an issue.
Thank you
Yes, no team that IS paying a top starter big money, will be trading the top starter until FA walk is looming. That was the case with Halladay, Lee (twice in the same year), Sabathia and others.
The simple truth is the Sox have to hope Beckett/Lester/Bucholz form a solid top 3, and that is a decent bet, and they can patch from there. the Yankees got lucky with Colon and Garcia, so why not the Red Sox?
Oh,By The Way
Where did the Sox get off not being even slightly interested in Sabathia, before he signed with NY. The record shows that he has been worth 40 DP’s
You Get What You pay For
and with so called low risk/ highreward players, odds are you are not getting much. Who was that outfielder they brought in a couple of years ago? He was low risk/high reward, except the high reward never came.That’s why they are called low risk.Now that V is on board, it makes more since to get Darvish, and a couple more from Japan. Saito has a 2.12 ERA in the bigs. I am still trying to figure out why they let him go. Last year, he pitched only 26 innings,so our crack medical staff would have to take a look.If healthy,why not get him. He came into the league as a closer and did well. He could be an inexpensive solution as closer,or a solid piece of the bullpen..
I laughed
I mean, this is clearly copied/pasted from The Onion, right?
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
DFA Rev Halofan, The New York Yankees, The Tampa Bay Blue Seats, Carl Crawford, John Lackey, Darnell McDonald, Dave Magadan, Tim Bogar, Buck Showalter, Dan Johnson, Hawk Harrelson, Jonah Keri, Murray Chass, Mark Sanchez, Micheal Vick, Jared Allen, Jerry Jones, Al Davis, Rex Ryan, Rob Ryan, Trent Dilfer, Heath Evans, Cris Carter, Vuvuzelas, The Chicken Dance, Lady Gaga, Justin Bieber, Stephanie Meyer, and the entire fucking city of Philadelphia.
We won't trade for Lincecum/Hernandez or sign Darvish.
I mean, we COULD sign Darvish OR trade for gio gonzalez. I don’t see us doing that though.
Realistically, this is the team I see us with next year
ALL OFFENSIVE PLAYERS RETURN
(I’m not listing them out)
Rotation
1 Lester
2 Beckett
3 Buchholz
4 Bedard
5 Anyone that can be had for CHEAP
The Red Sox suck, and I am the dirt that was sucked in, I am a dirty.
I'm narcissistic, nihilistic, and arrogant. That's me in a nutshell.
O.O.L.F.
I am afraid I have to agree that no significant outlay of cash will be made this year. I doubt that they will even bring Bedard back. They will lose him over a million or so dollars. He would be a low risk/high reward guy that would be worth takig a chance with.
"Win Every Year...We need rings!"
This borders on
Tell Carl Crawford Play Hard Always
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
OTM | Silver Seven
Nothing borders on Play Hard Always
That was pure genius.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Nov 7, 2011 8:56 AM EST up reply actions
Sad thing is...
…in a way he was right. :(
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
OTM | Silver Seven
I think Carl Crawford needed to play less hard always
From the excuses he gave in his diary he might have been pressing all year.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
DFA Rev Halofan, The New York Yankees, The Tampa Bay Blue Seats, Carl Crawford, John Lackey, Darnell McDonald, Dave Magadan, Tim Bogar, Buck Showalter, Dan Johnson, Hawk Harrelson, Jonah Keri, Murray Chass, Mark Sanchez, Micheal Vick, Jared Allen, Jerry Jones, Al Davis, Rex Ryan, Rob Ryan, Trent Dilfer, Heath Evans, Cris Carter, Vuvuzelas, The Chicken Dance, Lady Gaga, Justin Bieber, Stephanie Meyer, and the entire fucking city of Philadelphia.
by TheLoneDavid on Nov 7, 2011 11:33 AM EST up reply actions
The last play of the 2011
did not indicate that he was playing hard.
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
OTM | Silver Seven
Nobody hates Crawford more than I do
but he was pretty clearly pressing most of the year.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
DFA Rev Halofan, The New York Yankees, The Tampa Bay Blue Seats, Carl Crawford, John Lackey, Darnell McDonald, Dave Magadan, Tim Bogar, Buck Showalter, Dan Johnson, Hawk Harrelson, Jonah Keri, Murray Chass, Mark Sanchez, Micheal Vick, Jared Allen, Jerry Jones, Al Davis, Rex Ryan, Rob Ryan, Trent Dilfer, Heath Evans, Cris Carter, Vuvuzelas, The Chicken Dance, Lady Gaga, Justin Bieber, Stephanie Meyer, and the entire fucking city of Philadelphia.
Honestly
I’m just tired of all the Luxury Tax talk…We’re spenders and we have the money to spend. The rest of the baseball world view us just like the skyankees…why disappoint?
Again...
Unless you have the Sox’ financials and can make a statement with a straight face on how much profit the owners should be reaping for their significant investment, then there’s not a lot to talk about.
Over the Monster -- SB Nation's Resident Red Sox Site
USG
I should care about how much their profiting?
I can say with certainty that they are profiting more than 2, 3 clubs combined. They most likely made back DICE-BB posting fee the same year. They are very good at marketing and the marketing world reaps profit that is something i can tell u with certainty.
I'm not saying you should care, I'm saying you pretty obviously have to factor it in.
Otherwise you’re just ranting against financial realities, and there’s not much of a point to that.
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USG
Basically, your post is "Expand the payroll by $20 million!" and John Henry's response is "no."
At which point your only option is to, as a fan of one of the most expensive teams in the league to field, complain that the team isn’t spending.
You see how that’s not a terribly valid stance, right?
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USG
We complain anyway
We’re fans, we’ve tasted victory and we’re hooked at least i am. we wanted to trade buccholz, some of us lester at one point, ellsbury..this yr crawford…we’ll complain till the owners put a world series winning team on the field.
Buchholz
One “c”
Two "h"s
He threw a no-hitter for us.
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
OTM | Silver Seven
Sorry. It's a pet peeve.
I feel that we should take the time to spell our players’ names right. If you normally spell it properly and you were rushing, I take it back.
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
OTM | Silver Seven
He doesn't
Check the OP
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
DFA Rev Halofan, The New York Yankees, The Tampa Bay Blue Seats, Carl Crawford, John Lackey, Darnell McDonald, Dave Magadan, Tim Bogar, Buck Showalter, Dan Johnson, Hawk Harrelson, Jonah Keri, Murray Chass, Mark Sanchez, Micheal Vick, Jared Allen, Jerry Jones, Al Davis, Rex Ryan, Rob Ryan, Trent Dilfer, Heath Evans, Cris Carter, Vuvuzelas, The Chicken Dance, Lady Gaga, Justin Bieber, Stephanie Meyer, and the entire fucking city of Philadelphia.
OK...But what are we supposed to do with that?
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USG
We... what?
We won two World Series in the past ten years, dude. There is exactly one other team in baseball that can claim the same feat, and it ain’t the Yankees.
Simmer down.
Philosophy
That’s what it is all about when judging how much an ownership should spend. My philosphy says that anyone who buys a baseball team is filthy rich already, and should view the team as an expensive hobby,and not make it seam like their personal survival depends on it. When you see someone like Henry crying about LT,while sitting in his box seat in London watching his new toy,it’s hard to swallow that there is a problem with money.
...
If it takes Middlebrooks, Iglesias, Bogaerts, Ranaudo, Lowrie, Reddick and Bard you do the deal
No, you don’t.
by The Name is Dalton on Nov 7, 2011 7:45 AM EST reply actions
i guess u people are
ok with the fact we haven’t been close to the world series since game 7 of the ‘08 alcs. I’m sure as heck not. You got to be willing to give up to get. I never stated our farm system is weak we have the necessary pieces to make a deal. Our offense is great I never knocked it. Our pitching need the most help. You ever showed up to work with the minimal crew to do the job to have a couple people call out sick? With the pitching staff the way it is or could be with low/risk high reward which the latter is a pure IF / FLUKE all it takes is a couple of injuries to wreck us again. We need to fill the holes with sure concrete talent that’s proven year in an out. not talent that goes on hot streaks for a few weeks and then fall off or those who are only good when they can stay on the field for the 30% of the time they do. Play Hard Always is also like saying hire a new medical staff and we’ll be fine no one will get injured. Genius. Curt Young was supposed to be a genius with out pitching staff and while i dont know what he did or didnt do from a front office perspective it doesn’t seem he was successful. Same goes for any coach with a good track records. If you have stubborn players you wont get anywhere.
That's 3 years.
What will you be saying in 8 years when we haven’t been close in 5 after losing in the ALCS, ALDS, and WS one time each because nobody will guarantee a championship and selling the farm for one player has almost always proved a bad idea.
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USG
I'm just reacting to our meltdown really.
I understand what you’re saying but it isn’t like the draft doesn’t happen every year. I trust our scouting department with the money that’s spent. Two straight years of 3rd place finishes and the year before that we got swept in the first round. Our Pitching is in a wreck. Do you really trust that our top 3 stays healthy and having two if’s at the back end taking us to the world series? I don’t. I agree with your last statement but its not like we’re Kansas City we have the money to pursue free agents if the need arises.
The draft could be undergoing a serious overhaul which will completely remove Boston's financial advantage
And I don’t love the way our rotation is going to look, but neither do a number of other teams. As great as Boston’s financial status is, there’s still a limit to it, and forcing ourselves into bad situations in the future by hollowing out our farm system now is just asking for trouble.
It’s not like the contracts we currently have are going away without needing to find either high-priced or home-grown talent. The only ones we’ll actually recoup money from are the ones like Lackey and Daisuke where they don’t play now anyways. And there you have our current holes to begin with.
It’s just not a business model that stands up under scrutiny.
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by Ben Buchanan on Nov 7, 2011 11:41 AM EST up reply actions
It's possible, but I think the draft largely stays the same.
I can’t imagine enforcing the hard-slot rule where the prospect can only sign for the slotted value. To me, its communistic. The players can’t negotiate to keep their college options open, and the teams can’t take the “signability risk” and pick a player who is by far superior to his selection round.
John Lackey: Boston hates you
Hardly communist given that it's foundation is in the most capitalist thinking possible.
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USG
How is that?
Currently, it’s supply and demand. The better players, who are in lower supply and high demand have more leverage to make money. That is capitalist, but forcing all to fit to the slot salaries takes advantages away from the teams that can afford picks with signability issues.
John Lackey: Boston hates you
Forcing it all to fit the slot salaries helps owners keep costs down.
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USG
by Ben Buchanan on Nov 7, 2011 11:02 PM EST up reply actions
Right.
By equalizing the spending ability of ownership, the MLB would be levelling the playing field for high school prospects, and therefore decreasing the freedom of ownership.
The ability to spend on draft picks symbolically represents a “private sector,” while a mandated slotted system represents a form of regulation, which is almost always anti-capitalist.
This is getting a little political, so I’m going to stop, but I think my point is pretty clear.
John Lackey: Boston hates you
Since when is regulation anti-capitalist?
It’s anti laissez-faire, not anti-capitalist. I think the last 5 years has proven that there is nothing more anti-capitalist than unchecked capitalism.
by Sean O on Nov 8, 2011 8:14 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
+1
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Nov 8, 2011 9:23 AM EST up reply actions
+1
A primary purpose of well-written and properly enforced regulation is to enhance transparency of transactions (make all costs apparent to all sides).
Capitalism is most efficient when all costs are transparent.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.
First off
We are not other teams. I’ve noticed that we may not have the flexibility in the draft. We can focus more of our attention on the Latin Community if we really get run out of the draft process. Plus, its not like superstar players weren’t taken late in the draft (Pujols, Smoltz, Peavy..Ahem) Also a lot of talent that are coming up to the big leagues now are late rounds draft picks. We are in a great position right now to find some balance in our big league club. Most of our offensive players are hitting their prime now to the next 5 years…
Early round picks are extremely important
Yes, sometimes superstars emerge from late rounds, but for the most part, the best players are taken in rounds 1 through 5. In terms of homegrown talent, look at the players who have made big contributions to our success in recent years:
Ellsbury, 1st round
Buchholz, 1st round
Lowrie, 1st round
Bard, 1st round
Lester, 2nd round
Pedroia, 2nd round
Papelbon, 4th round
Kevin Youkilis (8th round) and to a lesser extent Reddick (17th) were deeper picks that have helped us, but as you can see, while trades are an important part of building a club, it’s crucial even for big-market teams to treat their high-level prospects with care.
One thing being overlooked
is that letting Papelbon or Ortiz walk would allow us to get two draft picks when they sign with other teams. Buchholz is only a Red Sox pitcher because the Mets signed Pedro.
Ellsbury and Bard were also a compensation picks
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Nov 7, 2011 1:30 PM EST up reply actions
We are, though. The difference between us is money, and we've already spent that on Gonzo, Crawford, et al.
The Latin market is certainly a desirable target, but that’ll take years to really get it up-and-running to the point where we can actually find good, undervalued talent well enough to recover the losses from a slotted draft system, should one come into play.
And no, “draft superstars in the late rounds” isn’t a viable strategy.
Over the Monster -- SB Nation's Resident Red Sox Site
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Nov 7, 2011 12:52 PM EST up reply actions
B-U-C-H-H-O-L-Z
It’s not like he hasn’t been with the team for years, for Christ’s sake.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
DFA Rev Halofan, The New York Yankees, The Tampa Bay Blue Seats, Carl Crawford, John Lackey, Darnell McDonald, Dave Magadan, Tim Bogar, Buck Showalter, Dan Johnson, Hawk Harrelson, Jonah Keri, Murray Chass, Mark Sanchez, Micheal Vick, Jared Allen, Jerry Jones, Al Davis, Rex Ryan, Rob Ryan, Trent Dilfer, Heath Evans, Cris Carter, Vuvuzelas, The Chicken Dance, Lady Gaga, Justin Bieber, Stephanie Meyer, and the entire fucking city of Philadelphia.
FA
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Nov 7, 2011 1:47 PM EST up reply actions
The collapse has brought out the idiots.
The 2011 Over the Monster Gedman League Fantasy Baseball Champion
Bravo!
Somebody who gets it. They are way to concerned with DP’s and prospects. Each of these recent years,and next year too, have been , and are,windows of opportunuty. At the end of the day, it’s all about who wins the WS.If you can trade DP’s and prospects to win a WS, you do it,don’t you? The windfall of cash it brings the team? The warm glow that a region feels after a trophy parade? They are content to field a team that is not quite good enough. Henry is a billionaire who buys a soccer team??? Why pinch pennies?
Okay, I'd like you to do me a favor.
Scroll all the way to the top of this page and click that little link in the top right corner. The one that says “Log out.”
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
DFA Rev Halofan, The New York Yankees, The Tampa Bay Blue Seats, Carl Crawford, John Lackey, Darnell McDonald, Dave Magadan, Tim Bogar, Buck Showalter, Dan Johnson, Hawk Harrelson, Jonah Keri, Murray Chass, Mark Sanchez, Micheal Vick, Jared Allen, Jerry Jones, Al Davis, Rex Ryan, Rob Ryan, Trent Dilfer, Heath Evans, Cris Carter, Vuvuzelas, The Chicken Dance, Lady Gaga, Justin Bieber, Stephanie Meyer, and the entire fucking city of Philadelphia.
by TheLoneDavid on Nov 15, 2011 3:24 PM EST up reply actions
Baseball Cliches
I agree with Jake. Baseball cliche number one is “low risk high reward” and means spend less and hope for a miracle. Andrew Miller is an example of the cliche,as was John Smoltz,Brad Penny,and many more. They ussually end up being no reward and a waste of a few million. Young baseball thinkers are enamored with this concept.
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