Bobby Valentine To Manage Red Sox
by Ben Buchanan on Nov 29, 2011 7:38 PM EST
in News
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PrintThe wait is over: the Red Sox have a new manager, and his name is Bobby Valentine.
It's still a bit tentative, but both Gordon Edes of ESPN and Mike Lynch of WCVB have cited sources who say that an agreement is in place. With an earlier report that Gene Lamont may have been eliminated as a candidate, it seems almost sure now that Valentine will be the Red Sox' manager in 2012.
Valentine, a veteran of 10 MLB seasons as a player, previously managed the Texas Rangers for eight years and the New York Mets for seven. He's emerged with a winning record of 1117-1072, but a very mixed reputation. There have been conflicts with executives both in the US and in Japan, where he took the Chiba Lotte Marines to a championship and garnered the support of fans and disdain of ownership. His departure from the Mets in 2002 also happened under circumstances similar to those that caused Terry Francona's exit.
I've certainly made it clear that I'm no great fan of Bobby Valentine. As far as in-game strategy is concerned, his record with bunting is pretty middle-of-the-road, but he has let his teams run far too freely on the basepaths (we'll see how the bullpen works out). What has really made myself and others so fearful of his hiring, however, is his on-air persona. The Bobby Valentine of ESPN broadcasts should not be allowed to manage the Boston Red Sox. But the fact of the matter is that we don't know whether that is the Bobby Valentine who will sit in the dugout come 2012, or if it's just an air he puts on for a more mainstream audience.
I'm not saying to give him the benefit of the doubt. But I think we naysayers owe it to ourselves to at least wait for April before we go jumping off any bridges.
Besides, unless he's a real disaster he--as is the case with so many other managers--won't really have a big impact on the team.
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BARF
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
OTM | Silver Seven
good choice
You may not be able to quantify how much a MGR counts,but you can quantify that Tito’s nice guy way has not been working for more then just last year.Valentine has something to prove.He want’s to shut up the naysayers out there. He will have this team work it;s ass off all year. A fresh face with a different approach can’t hurt. Look for the Sox to make a real attempt for Darvish,and other Japenese players.
"you can quantify that Tito’s nice guy way has not been working "
Wait … what?
Lessee, in 8 years with the RS, his record was 744-552, winning 95+ games FIVE times, made the playoffs 5 times and just barely missed two other times, and of course he won two pennants and 2 WS titles.
But maybe you are right. Maybe, “A fresh face with a different approach can’t hurt.”
I guess we’ll find out.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.
I'll see your fancy numbers and raise you some other fancy numbers!
Tito = nice guy way
Number of years since the Red Sox have won a World Series = 4
Number of years since the Red Sox have won a World Series that Tito has been manager = 4
Ergo, the nice guy way cost us FOUR WORLD SERIES. QED.
Chewbacca is a Wookie...
Tampa Bay Rays Championships: Still Zero
"Playoffs?!? Don't talk about playoffs! Are you kidding me? I just hope we can win a game!"
- Jim Mora, seeing through space and time to describe the 2011 Boston Red Sox
by nuthinboutnuthin on Nov 30, 2011 1:19 PM EST up reply actions
Miss Libby's car.....
IS GREEN!
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
OTM | Silver Seven
Why?
Strikeouts are boring- Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.
by CasanovaWong on Nov 30, 2011 9:04 AM EST up reply actions
boo
In Lax We Trust - Official Pro Lacrosse Blog of SBN
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That seems about right.
Over the Monster -- SB Nation's Resident Red Sox Site
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Nov 29, 2011 7:55 PM EST up reply actions
Hah! We wish.
Theo compensation is next I’d imagine. Oh yes, indeed that STILL isn’t over yet.
Joe, the reason we shout "WE ARE" and the reason the answer will always be "PENN STATE"
We've still got about a week or so until they return to that talk
Let’s hope they can get some stuff done between now and then.
by South Coast Ghost on Nov 29, 2011 8:06 PM EST up reply actions
We wait until Theo & Co sign Pujols
And then we receive pujols as compensation
by Florida Johnny on Nov 29, 2011 9:38 PM EST up reply actions
x
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
OTM | Silver Seven
by Bloggy on Nov 29, 2011 8:09 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
+1
Not sure I’ve liked a Red Sox team less than I do the current iteration.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
by TheLoneDavid on Nov 29, 2011 8:12 PM EST up reply actions
2011-2012 haven't improved though
Having Adrian is awesome, but all the other personnel moves have made me want to puke.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
by TheLoneDavid on Nov 29, 2011 9:16 PM EST up reply actions
I'm going to wait until the end of April
When he still sucks, I’ll expect your apology.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
by TheLoneDavid on Nov 29, 2011 9:42 PM EST up reply actions
deal, that goes for both of us though
The 2011 Over the Monster Gedman League Fantasy Baseball Champion
I hate free agency
It’s like how it felt to be a Yankees fan from 2004-2006. I really don’t think the Red Sox will be bad, just maybe not the easiest to root for.
Follow me on twitter @nyybrandonc
Co-Manager/Writer for Pinstripe Alley, Editor/Writer for Blueshirt Banter
"No matter what I talk about, I always get back to baseball."
"Every day is a great day for hockey."
outlook for 2012:
The 2011 Over the Monster Gedman League Fantasy Baseball Champion
I hate free agency
#OccupyValentinesDay
Joe, the reason we shout "WE ARE" and the reason the answer will always be "PENN STATE"
Does this mean...
We now need to send ESPN compensation??
Thanks Tito & Theo for 04 and 07.
by Fenway302 on Nov 29, 2011 8:22 PM EST via mobile reply actions
ESPN can rot in hell.
My own personal opinion of that organization at the moment.
Joe, the reason we shout "WE ARE" and the reason the answer will always be "PENN STATE"
by Rogue Nine on Nov 29, 2011 8:24 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Rogue who do you hate more
ESPN or me
The 2011 Over the Monster Gedman League Fantasy Baseball Champion
I hate free agency
ESPN.
But by default because I don’t hate you.
I HATE espn.
Joe, the reason we shout "WE ARE" and the reason the answer will always be "PENN STATE"
you will hate me after fantasy football when it comes down to you and I again
for a championship, and I kick your ass, again.
The 2011 Over the Monster Gedman League Fantasy Baseball Champion
I hate free agency
It's sad, I've come to expect it.
Just like the Eagles losing in the 4th quarter, I am the king of random losses. In 3 different leagues this year I lead in points but an ranked no higher than 3rd. I’m at below .500 in one of them.
Joe, the reason we shout "WE ARE" and the reason the answer will always be "PENN STATE"
my team is total BS
look at my point total , pure luck
The 2011 Over the Monster Gedman League Fantasy Baseball Champion
I hate free agency
17 week season, you gotta take what you can get.
Joe, the reason we shout "WE ARE" and the reason the answer will always be "PENN STATE"
Stop being modest
If there is one thing this fantasy sports year has taught me, it’s that Sandy will win it all :)
Quantum Woodworking: Hand crafted pens, bottle stoppers, bowls and more.
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Yes.
Yes it is.
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
OTM | Silver Seven
Maybe this will be
Carl Crawford reverse. We were so happy when we got CC, and he didn’t turn out so good. However, now that we all against Bobby V, maybe he will be OK in the end?
Columnist at SB Nation Boston
by Jared Stegall on Nov 29, 2011 8:34 PM EST up reply actions
That seemed like a fairly split decision. I liked the player, questioned the need.
Joe, the reason we shout "WE ARE" and the reason the answer will always be "PENN STATE"
HERETIC!!!
Tampa Bay Rays Championships: Still Zero
"Playoffs?!? Don't talk about playoffs! Are you kidding me? I just hope we can win a game!"
- Jim Mora, seeing through space and time to describe the 2011 Boston Red Sox
by nuthinboutnuthin on Nov 29, 2011 10:06 PM EST up reply actions
Look on the bright side
By only winning 82-85 games, we won’t have any of the acute heartache of 2011.
thinking our bet can involve grill 705 gift certificates
The 2011 Over the Monster Gedman League Fantasy Baseball Champion
I hate free agency
I'm trying to be positive
but its pretty hard
The 2011 Over the Monster Gedman League Fantasy Baseball Champion
I hate free agency
No, not at all
Having only one starting pitcher will. Valentine will just make it a more miserable 82 win season.
at least one of them can reach 200 innings
even if they are awful innings.
The 2011 Over the Monster Gedman League Fantasy Baseball Champion
I hate free agency
Our Lackey away from Lackey
Tampa Bay Rays Championships: Still Zero
"Playoffs?!? Don't talk about playoffs! Are you kidding me? I just hope we can win a game!"
- Jim Mora, seeing through space and time to describe the 2011 Boston Red Sox
by nuthinboutnuthin on Nov 29, 2011 10:07 PM EST up reply actions
The manager only has an effect when its negative...
… and we notice it. And yell. And swear.
Tampa Bay Rays Championships: Still Zero
"Playoffs?!? Don't talk about playoffs! Are you kidding me? I just hope we can win a game!"
- Jim Mora, seeing through space and time to describe the 2011 Boston Red Sox
by nuthinboutnuthin on Nov 29, 2011 10:09 PM EST up reply actions
This blog is totally lost
And if it’s representative of “Red Sox Nation” then all Red Sox fans are lost. Bobby V is awesome. You’ll be fine. Until the first sac bunt when everyone freaks the f*ck out I guess.
by James Kannengieser on Nov 29, 2011 8:37 PM EST reply actions
As a fellow mets fan
I agree with Kannengieser. Bobby V managed a team (the 2000 mets had only a pythag W-L of 88-74!) that no business winning the pennant.
Ryan Miller was the true MVP. See my profile for rant.
Bobby V
The fact that so many posters here don’t like him confirms he is the best choice. Very good move, Sox!
by ccthemovieman on Nov 29, 2011 8:40 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
You are not a fan
Just a blog troll impersonating a fan. And you have been as long as Ive been visiting this blog. More often than not, when I see a troll post I see the name Sean O.
But anyway carry on with the hater-aide.
As I said before, when Bobby V is there grasping the World Series championship trophy with that shit eating grin of his (which was won with a one run lead earned from a suicide squeeze featuring Jacoby Elsbury)…Ill remind all the haters how much they hated him. Of course their memories will be short…like a certain Beckett hater in 2010 on this site..
"I think about baseball when I wake up in the morning. I think about it all day. And I dream about it at night. The only time I don't think about it is when I'm playing it."
Carl "Yaz" Yastrzemski
by BerkshireFan on Nov 29, 2011 9:51 PM EST up reply actions
holy shit
it’s Berkshire-did you play for Bobby V over there?
The 2011 Over the Monster Gedman League Fantasy Baseball Champion
I hate free agency
Well considering I don't remember seeing you for one fucking second during the season.
I kind of doubt you’ll show up for the playoffs next year.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
by TheLoneDavid on Nov 29, 2011 9:56 PM EST up reply actions
he says he plays baseball in Japan
I wish I were joking.
The 2011 Over the Monster Gedman League Fantasy Baseball Champion
I hate free agency
That's hilarious.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
by TheLoneDavid on Nov 29, 2011 9:58 PM EST up reply actions
Well....
Ive been here for about 6 years. I dont know why its hilarious…because you are stuck in a shit job in the US..means no one else on this blog could possibly have a real life?
And I never said I made my living playing ball here..I dont. But I play competitively for a corporate team.
"I think about baseball when I wake up in the morning. I think about it all day. And I dream about it at night. The only time I don't think about it is when I'm playing it."
Carl "Yaz" Yastrzemski
by BerkshireFan on Nov 29, 2011 10:03 PM EST up reply actions
Look at the big shot
The 2011 Over the Monster Gedman League Fantasy Baseball Champion
I hate free agency
It's nice having something you and I both hate here
I’m tired of being on the opposite side of the argument with you.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
by TheLoneDavid on Nov 29, 2011 10:26 PM EST up reply actions
you are a truly pleasant addition to the community here.
perhaps you could be a little more of an ass to the regulars around here.
This.
What a jackass.
“My Japanese corporate job makes me a baseball champion!”
Blow.
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
OTM | Silver Seven
I remember bobby v during a telecast
speaking at great length about how Crawford should close his stance and bat higher in the lineup.
The 2011 Over the Monster Gedman League Fantasy Baseball Champion
I hate free agency
Derp. Pressed enter too early.
I was going to say that I don’t mean to sound melodramatic, but this offseason is the first time I’ve actually felt embarrassed to be a Red Sox fan. I don’t mean embarrassment over something the team or a player did, but the whole gestalt.
For a long time, I was proud of what this team was. The Red Sox were smart, fairly progressive and mostly likable, even with some obnoxious fans and an intolerable media. I was worried when we lost Theo, but I was convinced that Ben could carry on the same tradition. The last month or so has raised some eyebrows and the FO has seemed slow-witted and aloof (no this is not a reference to Papelbon, he can keep his treasure chest). Now this… it just makes me feel ill. I don’t know what this team stands for anymore.
As I said, this sounds melodramatic and will probably wane soon, but it just feels like we went from being in an embarrassing situation (the collapse) and made changes to embody that embarrassment as much as possible. Don’t get me wrong, I’ll still support the team—I have absolutely no choice in the matter, my heart is set—but at this point in time I don’t feel much pride.
by Debageldond on Nov 29, 2011 9:03 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Both of your posts are the best posts
I loved the simple “Ugh.” because that’s all that needs to be said, but also really well put afterwards.
Sorry to hear it
Im sure you will get plenty of support in your luke warm support on this site. A single game hasnt been played.. yet we see comments like this.
I liked it when I was a miserable Sox fan growing up in the 80s and late 90s.
Guess all these 2004 leftover bandwagoners are finally getting off the bus. Woot!!! Im so relieved.
"I think about baseball when I wake up in the morning. I think about it all day. And I dream about it at night. The only time I don't think about it is when I'm playing it."
Carl "Yaz" Yastrzemski
by BerkshireFan on Nov 29, 2011 9:54 PM EST up reply actions
But do you know how to pronounce it??
It says “Ba-ku-shiya-fanu-wa-su-wa-ru”
Which means I suck in air (I get what you wanted to say) but to a Japanese person it would read like you were saying I suck in air or smoke cigarettes. Nice try though.
"I think about baseball when I wake up in the morning. I think about it all day. And I dream about it at night. The only time I don't think about it is when I'm playing it."
Carl "Yaz" Yastrzemski
by BerkshireFan on Nov 29, 2011 10:07 PM EST up reply actions
That would be
Unchi or ウンチ
So the proper way to type it would be "バクシヤファンはウンチです。"
"I think about baseball when I wake up in the morning. I think about it all day. And I dream about it at night. The only time I don't think about it is when I'm playing it."
Carl "Yaz" Yastrzemski
by BerkshireFan on Nov 29, 2011 10:09 PM EST up reply actions
My son likes to say Unchi
And he is 3 years old. You seem to have the same maturity level.
"I think about baseball when I wake up in the morning. I think about it all day. And I dream about it at night. The only time I don't think about it is when I'm playing it."
Carl "Yaz" Yastrzemski
by BerkshireFan on Nov 29, 2011 10:10 PM EST up reply actions
I love this video...if you understood Japanese its even more hilarious.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBNUNZuQBKw
"I think about baseball when I wake up in the morning. I think about it all day. And I dream about it at night. The only time I don't think about it is when I'm playing it."
Carl "Yaz" Yastrzemski
by BerkshireFan on Nov 29, 2011 10:15 PM EST up reply actions
Fucking weeaboos.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
by TheLoneDavid on Nov 29, 2011 10:23 PM EST up reply actions
Funny that term became famous
on 4chan which is just a American copy of the Japanese site 2chan…ironic..dont chya think
"I think about baseball when I wake up in the morning. I think about it all day. And I dream about it at night. The only time I don't think about it is when I'm playing it."
Carl "Yaz" Yastrzemski
by BerkshireFan on Nov 29, 2011 10:55 PM EST up reply actions
Y'know, if it weren't for people over here who obsess over the culture over there
Japan and I would get along ignoring each other just fine, instead of me wishing we had nuked them to oblivion back in the 40’s.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
by TheLoneDavid on Nov 29, 2011 10:58 PM EST up reply actions
I know, but I can't exactly wish we had blow ourselves to hell in the 40s.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
by TheLoneDavid on Nov 29, 2011 11:05 PM EST up reply actions
If you ever visited the nuclear bomb museum
in Hiroshima you would never joke about it. Its not funny in the least.
And I never had a fascination with Japan. I met a Japanese girl in college and came over for a few months while we were dating. Loved it and stayed (the super short version of why I am here).
I still dont understand Americans who obsess over Japan (or all things Japanese). Probably never will either.
"I think about baseball when I wake up in the morning. I think about it all day. And I dream about it at night. The only time I don't think about it is when I'm playing it."
Carl "Yaz" Yastrzemski
by BerkshireFan on Nov 29, 2011 11:36 PM EST up reply actions
If you ever spent the smallest iota of time on this blog while I was here
You would know I give no fucks. I will joke about what I please thank you kindly.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
by TheLoneDavid on Nov 29, 2011 11:37 PM EST up reply actions
I would probably spend more time here
If it werent for classless douchbags like yourself running rampant most of the time here. So 90% of the time I just lurk silently.
Go fuck yourself very much
"I think about baseball when I wake up in the morning. I think about it all day. And I dream about it at night. The only time I don't think about it is when I'm playing it."
Carl "Yaz" Yastrzemski
by BerkshireFan on Nov 29, 2011 11:42 PM EST up reply actions
And if I saw you in person
I sincerely doubt you would even think about talking to me that way. But you got love the keyboard superheros of the internet.
Nice and safe behind your screen mocking anything you please without any real world repercussions.
"I think about baseball when I wake up in the morning. I think about it all day. And I dream about it at night. The only time I don't think about it is when I'm playing it."
Carl "Yaz" Yastrzemski
by BerkshireFan on Nov 29, 2011 11:44 PM EST up reply actions
If I saw you in person
I’d be laughing my ass off at you anyway. I don’t give a flying fuck, a swimming fuck, or even an elderly going around in a wheelchair fuck about your feelings. I really, really don’t. I don’t respect you, and I think you’re a moron for trying to make me care.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
by TheLoneDavid on Nov 29, 2011 11:49 PM EST up reply actions
Can I sell tickets to this internet tough-guy fight?
Are you gonna ride in on a dragon or something?
Tampa Bay Rays Championships: Still Zero
"Playoffs?!? Don't talk about playoffs! Are you kidding me? I just hope we can win a game!"
- Jim Mora, seeing through space and time to describe the 2011 Boston Red Sox
by nuthinboutnuthin on Nov 30, 2011 1:02 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I can't tell who you're replying to NBN
SBNation’s comment threads strike again.
However, if I were riding a dragon, it would be wearing a monocle, and be named “Mr. Wuggles.” He would be my best friend in the world, and we would have all sorts of fantastic adventures.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
by TheLoneDavid on Nov 30, 2011 2:32 AM EST up reply actions
I think it was more the conceptual idea...
But it was probably the “If I saw you in person” line (so him). Seriously, is there a Godwin’s Law for that particular nugget of internet message board nonsense?
Tampa Bay Rays Championships: Still Zero
"Playoffs?!? Don't talk about playoffs! Are you kidding me? I just hope we can win a game!"
- Jim Mora, seeing through space and time to describe the 2011 Boston Red Sox
by nuthinboutnuthin on Nov 30, 2011 12:13 PM EST up reply actions
Berkshire's Law?
Tampa Bay Rays Championships: Still Zero
"Playoffs?!? Don't talk about playoffs! Are you kidding me? I just hope we can win a game!"
- Jim Mora, seeing through space and time to describe the 2011 Boston Red Sox
by nuthinboutnuthin on Nov 30, 2011 12:14 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
wow I laughed really hard reading that nbn
The 2011 Over the Monster Gedman League Fantasy Baseball Champion
I hate free agency
I agree.
There’s nothing funny about that.
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
OTM | Silver Seven
This
for some reason fucking killed me. +1
by MetsKnicksRutgers on Nov 30, 2011 5:33 PM EST up reply actions
You'd probably laugh just as hard at a Twin Towers joke
being a big New York fan and all.
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
OTM | Silver Seven
Incredibly poor taste
but i guess the 56 years in between makes it somewhat “ok?” And, im from Jersey! But, i hear what youre saying, kind of a guilty pleasure. Like watching Scrubs for me, when i tel people im watching The Wire for the 400th time.
by MetsKnicksRutgers on Nov 30, 2011 5:41 PM EST up reply actions
Ah my bad
you said New York fan… thought you said new yorker
by MetsKnicksRutgers on Nov 30, 2011 5:42 PM EST up reply actions
Can you tell me again how awesome Japan is?
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
OTM | Silver Seven
It has luminous resistance power...
… or so Mr. Sparkle would have me believe.
Tampa Bay Rays Championships: Still Zero
"Playoffs?!? Don't talk about playoffs! Are you kidding me? I just hope we can win a game!"
- Jim Mora, seeing through space and time to describe the 2011 Boston Red Sox
by nuthinboutnuthin on Nov 30, 2011 12:35 PM EST up reply actions
Let's not jump to conclusions here.
Please don’t misconstrue my meaning or misrepresent my words. I made it pretty damn clear where my loyalties were, and my passion is by no means diminished.
I understand there have been a lot of new, obnoxious fans since 2004, and I don’t like them either. But wishing them away is foolish. Since you are so long-suffering and dedicated, you should surely know that any fan support is beneficial to the success of the team. I’m not advocating that we listen to or emulate pink hats, but you shouldn’t dismiss them with such zeal.
You do not have a monoply on suffering and misery. Please don’t try to feed me the bullshit that you were happier when the Sox were less successful. Unless you’re CHB or someone of his ilk, that’s almost certainly not true.
Allow me to put my feelings this way: it’s a bit like your favored political party or candidate losing an election. You still love America (or whatever your homeland may be), but you feel uneasy about the direction the country has taken. In this case, your team within a team has taken a loss, and it takes some of the shine off. Furthermore, this has all happened so swiftly that it seems almost Shakespearean—a self-fulfilling prophecy of sorts. The Red Sox panicked when they needed to stay calm and tinker, and ended up with Bobby fucking Valentine as manager. Does that mean I’m not going to support the team? Of course not, and I’ll do my best to give Bobby a fair shot. But it feels very wrong, like a lurch in the wrong direction from a team that would absolutely make mistakes, but would usually still at least show progressive tendencies.
I really am tired of this line of thought, the consistent need to prove one’s own authenticity as a fan. It’s really easy to spew crap about pink hats and 2004 when someone questions the team, and it’s easy to dismiss them as disloyal. But in my defense, I’ve been extremely supportive of the team, and that’s not going to change. I live and die for this fucking team. I’m posting on a Red Sox blog in November despite feeling incredibly let down by the direction of the team. I’m usually pretty optimistic. Hell, in 2004 when it looked like we were out, I looked forward to free agency and was excited about potentially signing Carl Pavano (hindsight’s a bitch—in my defense, I was 15). So please spare me your sanctimony.
I was pretty clear that it was an emotional post, not an “AW MAN WHAT DID THEY DO? I HATE THIS TEAM, I QUIT!!!” post. I’m starting to hate the tendency of self-righteous white knights to jump on perceived pink hats more than the pink hats themselves.
by Debageldond on Nov 30, 2011 12:31 AM EST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
...
I really am tired of this line of thought, the consistent need to prove one’s own authenticity as a fan. It’s really easy to spew crap about pink hats and 2004 when someone questions the team, and it’s easy to dismiss them as disloyal.
It’s just immature arguments, I wouldn’t worry about it. People who question the team or express a small bit of disatisfaction (spelling?) are spoiled bandwagoners and people who don’t are mindless sheep. Both viewpoints mean nothing.
by The Name is Dalton on Dec 2, 2011 11:15 AM EST up reply actions
Just because someone does not agree with you doesn’t mean they are a bandwagoner.
In fact, he specifically said that he is NOT going to stop supporting him. Fans from before 2004 still bitched and moaned about personnel decisions, etc.
by The Name is Dalton on Dec 2, 2011 11:11 AM EST up reply actions
yes and no
I think they might well have an eye on a new manager in a couple of years. I think they’ve picked Bobby V, not because he’d fail, but because he’d change the team dramatically in the short term, even if he doesn’t last long.
I think they picked Valentine because Larry Lucchino like him
And Larry Lucchino is in charge right now.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Nov 30, 2011 9:29 AM EST up reply actions
I think moreover, they picked Valentine
because Lamont and even Sveum seem too Tito-esque in attitude and style and they want to change things. I think probably it was a mutual decision between the owners and Ben (which no, doesn’t mean it was necessarily Ben’s first choice)- but that’s how the candidates seemed to strike me.
Bobby V has lost clubhouses before
In fact, Mets players were smoking pot his last year in New York. That’s worse than last year’s Sox.
As for a change of style, it didn’t seem like something Cherington wanted.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Nov 30, 2011 9:37 AM EST up reply actions
I know,
but that doesn’t mean that the way he manages is in any way similar to Tito. I’m not saying that I think he’ll be god’s gift to the Red Sox, hell, I didn’t want Tito gone. I think he’ll manage differently.
What I’m saying about the change of style is that probably when it came down to it, the owners didn’t want to fire Tito only to end up with either an unproven version of Tito or an older, less successful version of him.
I don't disagree
I just think it’s a bad sign when ownership overrules their FO, which is the way the hiring of Valentine appears.
The Sox still have a good team (which is why Valentine wanted the job).
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Nov 30, 2011 9:43 AM EST up reply actions
Ehh.
Manager doesn’t matter that much. He’ll be entertaining and annoying and perhaps play too much small-ball, but the fact is that he won’t make much difference either way.
the most annoying thing about that (probable) truism
is that, partly due to simple regression for the players who slumped miserably at the end and partly due to just plain the overall level of talent on this club, the Red Sox will probably win at least 90 games next year and should have a high probability of contending for the division.
Which will make it look like, “Gee, I guess Bobby V was the right choice after all!”.
I think the point for many of us is not that Bobby V will likely suck terribly as a manager. Its that we want to like our manager, even if he is mostly irrelevant to it’s success. It’s going to be very, very difficult to like Valentine after seeing him as a total dickwad for years.
I’ll give him a chance. He could be wiser and more gracious this time around. But I’m not expecting that.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.
Your next manager of the Boston Red Sox, handpicked by mmmmm
You said you wanted a wise man.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
by TheLoneDavid on Nov 30, 2011 2:34 AM EST up reply actions
A PR Piece, Really...
…but interesting nonetheless:
http://espn.go.com/mlb/conversations/_/id/7296774/mlb-red-sox-one-kind-bobby-valentine
Might make it easier to root for him for some of us. (might have been posted below, but haven’t gotten that far yet.)
by UltimateCranston on Nov 30, 2011 10:46 AM EST up reply actions
Valentine's problems won't show up in W or L
It’ll be how much power he has in personnel decisions. Bobby V is not a team player. He’s a “genius”, like Mike Sciosia and Tony La Russa. Right now, the Sox’ GM doesn’t have much power. That’s a bad thing.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Nov 30, 2011 9:34 AM EST up reply actions
Many people now think that the Sox will have an embarrasingly disastrous year.
I think that will motivate the players.
I agree with you.
Expectations have not been this low in a while. Maybe this combined with the collapse in September will piss these guys to no end.
Red Sox will be fine
they still have top talent and top vets. Its not like the Yankees or the Rays solved their off season issues either.
Probably true
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Nov 30, 2011 9:37 AM EST up reply actions
We have a good infield, one or two good pitchers
and a hit or miss center fielder. Nobody else fills me with confidence.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
by TheLoneDavid on Nov 29, 2011 11:13 PM EST up reply actions
I think Salty/Lavarnway will make a good platoon for us.
Aceves, Bard, Wheeler, Beckett, Lester and Buchholz are all good pitchers. Ellsbury isn’t that hit or miss, he’s been decent his whole career, and now he appears to be awesome.
by revived0103 on Nov 30, 2011 12:55 AM EST up reply actions
this was kind of a reply to both of you
by revived0103 on Nov 30, 2011 12:55 AM EST up reply actions
Wheeler's kind of "meh"
Aceves is an awesome 1970’s style reliever. I’m still waiting to give my opinion on Salty and Lavarnway, although for now I’ll stop demanding Ben sucks Theo Epstein’s sweaty balls in exchange for Geovany Soto.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
by TheLoneDavid on Nov 30, 2011 2:36 AM EST up reply actions
After all, he does manage for the Cubs. He needs to make a devastating franchise-altering change within the first two months or he’s going to fired.
by frozendesert on Nov 30, 2011 2:53 AM EST up reply actions
Technically Hoyer is the GM
But I’m not entirely convinced that Hoyer isn’t actually a muppet being controlled by Theo.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
by TheLoneDavid on Nov 30, 2011 2:54 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah,
manage/general manage/execute orders/suck in playoffs, I’m sure it’s all coming from Theo. I’m going to miss him.
by frozendesert on Nov 30, 2011 2:55 AM EST up reply actions
Good, thank goodness this is over.
the manager search was beginning to become an embarrassment.
Now B. Valentine, first task - Fly to Japan and convince Darvish and Norichika Aoki to post and sign Iwakuma and this off-season is almost over and we can move on.
If we start signing players just because they're Japanese and Valentine managed in Japan
I’m going to stop watching baseball.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
by TheLoneDavid on Nov 29, 2011 9:24 PM EST up reply actions
Have fun supporting an incompetent front office
I’ve been there and done that with the Lions.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
by TheLoneDavid on Nov 29, 2011 9:30 PM EST up reply actions
That seems ... weak.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.
You are insane.
Seriously. Ive been watching Darvish since he was in high school. He will be a major league ace someday. Whether that will be with the Red Sox or not…hard to say. Id hope so.
Do you have any idea how much money the Sox have made from the signing of Matsuzaka (and he is not even close to the pitcher Darvish is)? Ive been living in Japan for over 6 years and when I first came here you couldnt find a Sox hat…now they are everywhere.
While Matsuzaka didnt live up to expectations on the mound (which I think were set too high for someone who had been worked as hard as he was in Japan…that dude was a horse over here). He certainly brought in the overseas sales and marketing Red Sox nation over here. I used to only see Yankees hats here..now about 1/3 are Red Sox.
Darvish would not only bring ace level stuff…it would cement our presence in Japan…a very profitable thing indeed.
"I think about baseball when I wake up in the morning. I think about it all day. And I dream about it at night. The only time I don't think about it is when I'm playing it."
Carl "Yaz" Yastrzemski
by BerkshireFan on Nov 29, 2011 9:59 PM EST up reply actions
How much the Sox have made?
1/30th of the total merchandise, because the money is split between all the teams.
Darvish is expensive and unproven, and we’ve just dealt with the disaster that was Matsuzaka. Let the Yankees throw a $100m posting fee at him.
well, not really correct
Matsuzaka likely has had a positive revenue impact outside of his baseball win value due to marketing value to the Japanese fan market (both domestic and abroad). A simple 2006 study of the affect of Ichiro for Seattle and Matsui for NY showed a boost in revenue (not accountable by simple wins or other means) of roughly around $10M per year for each team in the years following the acquisition of those players.
http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/how-much-is-matsuzaka-worth/
It is likely that Matsuzaka has had a similar ‘Japanese market’ impact on Red Sox revenues, though the exact amounts are hard to know.
That article predicted a larger overall value based on optimistic projections of Dice-K’s actual baseball value that did not bear out, but the point is that there is revenue generation outside of pure win value – and well beyond the shared-revenue streams.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.
Kawakami… Matsuzaka… I’m wary of the imports, myself. In fact, I’m sure my irrelevantly small sample size completely confirms my shaky hypothesis. Completely positive of it.
by frozendesert on Nov 30, 2011 2:52 AM EST up reply actions
maybe valentine can convince the team to stop treating our pitching staff like babies
and let em try to pitch 200 innings, end the phantom DL stints.
The 2011 Over the Monster Gedman League Fantasy Baseball Champion
I hate free agency
Wait.. .what?
Beckett and Lester pitched 190 innings each, and Lackey pitched through injury. Which DL stints were phantom stints where the pitchers were babied?
by abbreviatedman on Nov 29, 2011 9:51 PM EST up reply actions
look over the last few years not one season
The 2011 Over the Monster Gedman League Fantasy Baseball Champion
I hate free agency
... what what what?
Lester’s career low in his four years since coming back from cancer is 191.
Beckett’s been MUCH healthier with Boston than he ever was with Florida, missing the 190-inning mark only twice in 6 years. (His career high before Boston: 178 IP.)
But yeah… what injuries should the pitchers have pitched through? What “phantom DL stints” have there been?
by abbreviatedman on Nov 29, 2011 11:21 PM EST up reply actions
Only Buchholz had one of those
last year, and that was pretty legit- since he’d pitched a lot less innings before. Not something that regularly happens.
Lackey shouldn't have been pitching through in-
I mean, pitching at all.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
by TheLoneDavid on Nov 29, 2011 9:57 PM EST up reply actions
There's some question whether pitchers SHOULD pitch through injury.
And Lackey, who had a good-if-not-great season the year before, is an excellent argument against it.
But I don’t have any idea how you can say the Sox baby pitchers. If there was any way a pitcher could get on the mound last year, he was there. We needed every arm out there.
by abbreviatedman on Nov 29, 2011 11:22 PM EST up reply actions
Buch won't be an ace
but 200 innings of roughly 3.50 era is nothing to sneeze at, assuming his back doesn’t explode again.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
by TheLoneDavid on Nov 29, 2011 10:36 PM EST up reply actions
if he comes close to 200 innings he is a high risk for injury though right?
since he hasnt really been close to that in his career before now
The 2011 Over the Monster Gedman League Fantasy Baseball Champion
I hate free agency
yeah, unfortunately, because of last year
he’s probably not gonna be allowed to get that high this year. Maybe match his 2010 total. Hopefully midseason we’ll be in good enough shape that he can take a rest for a couple starts.
You'll know we're in trouble if he manages Japanese style...
like bunting in the first inning (really, they do that there),
not sliding into second base to disrupt relay throws (it’s considered unsportsmanlike there),
Two hours of pre-game exercises and calisthenics.
Not even I expect that.
Over the Monster -- SB Nation's Resident Red Sox Site
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Nov 29, 2011 10:19 PM EST up reply actions
x
Tampa Bay Rays Championships: Still Zero
"Playoffs?!? Don't talk about playoffs! Are you kidding me? I just hope we can win a game!"
- Jim Mora, seeing through space and time to describe the 2011 Boston Red Sox
by nuthinboutnuthin on Nov 29, 2011 11:18 PM EST up reply actions
Yup,
that last one might kill our only remaining pitcher.
by frozendesert on Nov 30, 2011 2:51 AM EST up reply actions
I'm indifferent to this move.
The players are much more responsible for the outcome of games not managers. Are there things managers can do yes, if the players don’t execute it really doesn’t matter who the manager is. I don’t think this is a long term solution by any means, and in two or three years the Sox will have a new manager.
I really like Bobby V
But then again, I didn’t really pay attention to him as the manager of the Mets, I just followed him closely because the Marines are my favorite NPB team by far. I was heartbroken when he was booted out by the front office after all he had done for them.
It’s weird thinking about the fact he will now manage my favorite MLB team.
"We Believe" - Rudy Fernandez
I like it a lot more than Lamont
he may be a great manager, he’ll probably be an OK manager, he might be awful. Best case, we win a world series. Worst case, he gets fired after a year. I think he’ll do more to affect change in the clubhouse culture than Lamont would’ve. I don’t necessarily believe that terrible things were going on in the clubhouse, but I do buy that a change in work environment is good for people every few years.
I don’t believe Bobby V will be there long, but I also don’t really hate the idea of him being there while he is. At least the postgame show will be more entertaining. Maybe ESPN will get Francona to replace him.
Well, I think worst case
Is he drives us all bonkers, but because the team keeps winning roughly 90 games and we make it into the new expanded playoffs he lingers around for a few years and we get knocked out of the one game playoff by the Rays and Angels every damn year.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
by TheLoneDavid on Nov 30, 2011 2:39 AM EST up reply actions
I wish I had something witty to say, but frankly
There is NOTHING witty about Valentine.
He will run us into the ground, break our hearts, and set us back a year.
He’ll somehow break Pedroia, make Ellsbury want to leave this team more, and make Carl Crawford worse.
Forget fried chicken and beer and video games… Under this regime there will be a lot of sleeping and talking to agents by these players.
The Red Sox suck, and I am the dirt that was sucked in, I am a dirty.
I'm narcissistic, nihilistic, and arrogant. That's me in a nutshell.
Oh, come on.
He hasn’t won a MLB championship in 15 attempts! He’s DUE!
Plus, look at that winning smile!!!
by frozendesert on Nov 30, 2011 2:50 AM EST up reply actions
Over The Monster.
What have we become?
"Hating the (New York) Yankees is as American as pizza pie, unwed mothers, and cheating on your income tax"
I'm back, that's all, formerly known as Sox-Inda-South!
This really isn't any different than it usually is
Maybe we’re a bit louder and more irritable than we used to be, but after the last three months we’ve had that’s to be expected. We’ve always bitched and moaned and complained about everything.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
by TheLoneDavid on Nov 30, 2011 2:41 AM EST up reply actions
Yup.
And I’m not yet seeing the bright light at the end of the tunnel.
by frozendesert on Nov 30, 2011 2:46 AM EST up reply actions
And we entered the Tunnel in fucking 2009.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
by TheLoneDavid on Nov 30, 2011 2:53 AM EST up reply actions
Like you said, it's expected
But this really is the most negative I’ve ever seen this place in an offseason.
For good reason, let me reiterate.
But I, personally, am ready to move on from the collapse and look forward to seeing what Ben can actually do now that the marathon of a manger search is over.
by South Coast Ghost on Nov 30, 2011 9:53 AM EST up reply actions
Exactly my point.
"Hating the (New York) Yankees is as American as pizza pie, unwed mothers, and cheating on your income tax"
I'm back, that's all, formerly known as Sox-Inda-South!
I, for one,
absolutely love this selection. Just you wait until the first successful sacrifice bunt of the year! I’m not going to stop talking about it!!!
9-9-9 Plan...
Score nine runs every nine innings while striking out at least nine opposing batters. Acid moats filled with mines and electric alligators around the visiting bullpen in Fenway. Grope Heidi Watney Tuesdays. Pitchers breaking out smokes on the mound. Every time we lose a game its the liberal media’s fault. Pizza replaces fried chicken in the clubhouse.
Sadly, this would be so much more entertaining than last September, and only moderately more embarrassing and soul-deadening.
Tampa Bay Rays Championships: Still Zero
"Playoffs?!? Don't talk about playoffs! Are you kidding me? I just hope we can win a game!"
- Jim Mora, seeing through space and time to describe the 2011 Boston Red Sox
by nuthinboutnuthin on Nov 30, 2011 12:10 PM EST up reply actions
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