Petition to not have Bobby Valentine as the 2012 manager of the Boston Red Sox.
by TheLoneDavid on Nov 17, 2011 4:04 PM EST
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PrintI've been following the SOPA and Nickelback protests, so I know that online petitions aren't exactly the most powerful voices in the world, but I thought we might start one to let Cherington and Red Sox ownership know that we Really don't want Valentine in Boston next year. I don't have the ability to start a petition elsewhere, so hopefully Ben and Marc don't mind if I start it here. Just post your username, followed by the phrase "does not want Bobby Valentine to be the next manager of the Boston Red Sox." After all, we all know the Sox FO listens to what OTM has to say.
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The entire sane voice of "Red Sox nation"
does not want Bobby Valentine as manager.
+100000000000000000000000000000000000000
only because I couldn’t figure out how to do an infinity sign.
by aubatron2011 on Nov 17, 2011 4:44 PM EST up reply actions
former red sox fan
as a charter member of red sox nation i olny have one thing two say…..go cubbies!!!
by formerredsoxfan on Nov 27, 2011 8:24 AM EST up reply actions
Don't let the door hit your ass on the way out.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
DFA Rev Halofan, The New York Yankees, The Tampa Bay Blue Seats, Carl Crawford, John Lackey, Darnell McDonald, Dave Magadan, Tim Bogar, Buck Showalter, Dan Johnson, Hawk Harrelson, Jonah Keri, Murray Chass, Mark Sanchez, Micheal Vick, Jared Allen, Jerry Jones, Al Davis, Rex Ryan, Rob Ryan, Trent Dilfer, Heath Evans, Cris Carter, Vuvuzelas, The Chicken Dance, Lady Gaga, Justin Bieber, Stephanie Meyer, and the entire fucking city of Philadelphia.
by TheLoneDavid on Nov 27, 2011 1:29 PM EST up reply actions
I find it kind of funny
that you created an account specifically to say that, waited the 24 hour waiting period, and then took the time to post it.
please never come back
don’t forget your pink hat
The 2011 Over the Monster Gedman League Fantasy Baseball Champion
I hate free agency
well just left one loser to follow another…is that rendandant?
by formerredsoxfan on Nov 29, 2011 7:41 PM EST up reply actions
You actually followed the biggest loser in our organization
Also, genius, we’ve won twice this decade. And the Cubs are the biggest joke in pro sports. As is Chicago, a stinking cesspool of a city.
Oh please.
as a charter member of red sox nation
Do you even understand what a “charter member” IS? Someone who jumps on the bandwagon and jumps off at the first sign of trouble is not a charter member of anything.
by The Name is Dalton on Dec 1, 2011 10:39 AM EST up reply actions
Petition Online
That’s what I did with a re-sign Mike Lowell petition. Not sure if it did any good, but I did post the link to it here way back when. I got 20,000 signatures or so and made a few waves in the blogosphere.
http://www.petitiononline.com/
"Common sense is quite rare." - Voltaire
Resident Psychologist and Tech Support at Over the Monster: SB Nation's Resident Red Sox Web Site
Have to admit... for a second, I thought they meant John Valentin...
… then saw it was about Bobby Valentine and about had a heart attack.
I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.
Wait ’til next year!
Luchino will manage
The 2011 Over the Monster Gedman League Fantasy Baseball Champion
I hate free agency
I would rather Greg "the Hammer" Valentine
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
OTM | Silver Seven
I'd rather the Honky Tonk Man
Bring back the “Rhythm & Blues”!! [/wrestling nerd]
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
OTM | Silver Seven
Saw this news on ESPN... immediately came to OTM.
For the love of God… NOOOOOOOOOO Bobby Valentine!
I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.
Wait ’til next year!
I'd rather have anything but Bobby Valentine
Hell, I think even no manager is a better option.
The Red Sox suck, and I am the dirt that was sucked in, I am a dirty.
I'm narcissistic, nihilistic, and arrogant. That's me in a nutshell.
The sad part? I think I'd actually prefer that to Valentine.
The Red Sox suck, and I am the dirt that was sucked in, I am a dirty.
I'm narcissistic, nihilistic, and arrogant. That's me in a nutshell.
by outofleftfield on Nov 18, 2011 2:02 AM EST up reply actions
I am officially putting myself in the running for the Red Sox job. Figure I can do as well as Valentine, anyway,
Follow me on twitter @nyybrandonc
Co-Manager/Writer for Pinstripe Alley, Editor/Writer for Blueshirt Banter
"No matter what I talk about, I always get back to baseball."
"Every day is a great day for hockey."
All hope may not be lost:
http://www.csnne.com/blog/redsox-talk/post/Source-Red-Sox-holding-secret-interviews?blockID=596270&feedID=3352 Sean McAdam is reporting the Sox are holding secret interviews.
I saw that a few minutes ago - its like a lifeline through the darkness!
NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.
I have a feeling the courting of Valentine
is hopefully just them bouncing some outside of the box managing or coaching idea off him. “Bobby, if we hired you who would be your pitching coach?” or something like that. Bobby does know baseball, even if he’s a jerk. I can’t see ownership basically saying FU to Cherington and going behind his back and hiring a guy, then we might see another gorrilla suit incident.
by aubatron2011 on Nov 18, 2011 12:56 AM EST up reply actions
Over on Ben's post about Sveum
I’m still waiting in the comments section for a single person to provide a reasonable explanation for why everyone hates Valentine so much. You guys REALLY hate him, despite the fact that he was a consistently winning manager for the Mets. He has a far stronger pedigree than Francona had. So far I’ve seen two reasons for people hating him:
1. He’s annoying on TV. Which is a reason, I guess, but not exactly the kind of thing that inspires petitions and this much vitriol.
2. He hates Sabermetrics, for which I’ve seen no proof at all. The one bit of “proof” that was linked actually showed him to be a pretty reasonable guy who does value statistics.
I’m not saying I want him to be the manager (I don’t really care who the manager is, to be honest—how about Heidi Whatney?)—but I’m so, so confused by people freaking out this much about Valentine.
Well...
He’ll throw players under the bus when things go wrong, take credit for when things go right, air out the dirty laundry to the press but will also fight with the press when they criticize him. He also completely lost the team in his last year managing the Mets, much like our previous manager who was pretty much let go for the same reason.
I don’t know much about his in-game style. All I know is that he says he also would have left Pedro in the game, the same decision that led to Little being let go.
by South Coast Ghost on Nov 18, 2011 10:19 AM EST up reply actions
That's actually what cost him
the job the first time before Tito was hired.
by aubatron2011 on Nov 18, 2011 10:23 AM EST up reply actions
I keep hearing that kind of stuff
About what an unreasonable jerk he is, but again, have seen no evidence of it. And even if he did lose the clubhouse that last season: 1) It was a remarkably poorly constructed roster put together by an abysmal GM, Steve Phillips, and 2) as you said, Francona lost the clubhouse, too, but he was successful before that and will likely be successful again. I still don’t see anything about Valentine that stands out as worth this level of panic.
Okay
Well, he seemed to get McCarver fired, not because he’s McCarver, but because he didn’t like being criticized:
McCarver said Doubleday told him Valentine and his coaches had been aboard his yacht in Nantucket on a recent off-day. McCarver said: ‘’Nelson told me that Valentine said, ’McCarver’s got to go,’ and Nelson told the manager, ’I’ll handle it.’ ‘’ Doubleday asked McCarver to soothe Valentine by telling him that he’s done a ‘’hell of a job’’ with the players he had.
-Link
Also bad rapport with the players:
As for the placid existence the Mets have supposedly lived the past couple of seasons, Pete Harnisch didn’t find peace and serenity in their clubhouse. Valentine saw to that. Todd Hundley didn’t live a life of serenity either. Valentine saw to that, too.
‘’He comes into a whole new situation and goes right after I guess the most popular guy,’’ Hundley, now with the Los Angeles Dodgers, said of Valentine in spring training. And: ‘’You see him coming from a mile away. He thinks he’s working in the shadows, but he’s not. You can see right through him.’’
-Link
Not to mention after he left players came out of the woodwork to bash him:
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/02/05/sports/sports-of-the-times-the-mets-and-plenty-of-detractors-remain-on-bobby-v-s-menu.html?ref=bobbyvalentine
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/02/02/sports/on-baseball-mets-still-playing-their-blame-game.html?ref=bobbyvalentine
by South Coast Ghost on Nov 18, 2011 2:24 PM EST up reply actions
Thanks, SCG
I still think this panic about Valentine is a huge overreaction—lots of managers come off bad in their final season with a team (see: Terry Francona, who was successful before and will likely be successful again), but I appreciate you digging up those links.
I haven't seen anyone on the team bashing Francona like that.
If I’m wrong, show me some links. For all the thought that he lost the club house, I don’t see the same venom from former players ripping him in the press. I’ve seen a lot more from players that said they failed him (suggesting that, for all the ideas that he “lost” them, they still liked him…)
I thought we’d never win it all. And then we went down 0-3 to the Yankees in 2004, and I thought it was the end of the world.
Wait ’til next year!
Noone says the same things about Tito that they do about Bobby Valentine's attitude
No one. You can feel free to point out where I missed a story about his attitude being criticized but I’m not sure there is a debate that there is no comparing the two when it comes to style or personality.
I don’t think people are questioning Bobby V’s baseball knowledge. Anyone who has watched him, while finding his personality grating probably also heard something about the game they had not known.
by The Name is Dalton on Nov 24, 2011 10:55 AM EST up reply actions
Attitude being criticized in terms of being arrogant.
They both lost the clubhouse but I don’t think by any means they did it for the same reason. One wasn’t forceful enough to get their heads out of their a#$#es, the other ticked his players off.
by The Name is Dalton on Nov 24, 2011 10:57 AM EST up reply actions
Whats with the Bobby V hatred??
Here is a comment I made on another thread: Regarding Booby V.
I saw him manage here in Japan (where I live) and he took a perennial loser (the Chiba Lotte Marines) and turned them into a powerhouse of the league and their first championship. The only reason he got let go was because after he built ownership a winner (and set them on a winning path in their minor league system) they no longer wanted to pay him (he had the highest salary of any manager in Japanese pro baseball).
The guy knows how to win, and knows how to get the best out of players. We could do a lot worse than having Bobby V.
So why this outrage and petition? Id like to see a reasonable response. I`ve met the guy, and he is a great guy and knows how to win.
"I think about baseball when I wake up in the morning. I think about it all day. And I dream about it at night. The only time I don't think about it is when I'm playing it."
Carl "Yaz" Yastrzemski
Small ball works in Japan a lot better than it does in America.
Valentine’s teams have tons of sacrifices and inefficient base stealing. That’s not how to win a baseball game.
Over the Monster -- SB Nation's Resident Red Sox Site
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Nov 19, 2011 4:50 PM EST up reply actions
Explain the Angels
Mike Soscia would dispute your opinion. Small ball is just another strategy that works in some places and does not work in others. Example: Duke’s three point offense.
Angels won the WS in 2002 with Soscia and won several AL West titles playing that style.
with the amount of speed on the Red Sox, creating a small ball-type system seems like an excellent idea.
In 2002, LA was well above-average in both SB and SH. But that doesn’t mean that that was what made them successful. The ’02 Angels were the 4th best run-scoring team. The following year they played the same way and were the 4th worst scoring offense.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Nov 22, 2011 2:27 PM EST up reply actions
"Man, the 2002 Angels could've scored a lot more if they hadn't stolen inefficiently and given up free outs."
Without a way to contextualize it, the example of one small ball team winning a world series isn’t really a good argument. We know the amount of stolen bases needed to counteract one caught stealing. We know when bunts are a good idea. Valentine’s teams don’t really show that understanding.
Over the Monster -- SB Nation's Resident Red Sox Site
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Nov 22, 2011 5:45 PM EST up reply actions
Just read through the comments
And still not one good reason. Just a bunch of conjecture and rumor. Is the guy a sparkplug with the media? Hell yes, with the rabid Boston media he would be amazing.
He would be a fantastic manager and the first time he (hypothetically) brought the boston Red Sox a World Series championship I will revisit this thread with a giant “I Told You So”.
So dont go deleting this diary. I want to be able to see all the people who were so against this move to rub their noses in it. lol
"I think about baseball when I wake up in the morning. I think about it all day. And I dream about it at night. The only time I don't think about it is when I'm playing it."
Carl "Yaz" Yastrzemski
are you actually Bobby V?
otherwise I can’t really understand your attitude here. He rubs people the wrong way and they don’t like him, so what?
People are irrationally losing their shit about Valentine
and some of us are questioning the cause for panic. BerkshireFan is maybe doing it a little more meanly than I would, but I think the questions are valid.
It’s clearly more than just “he rubs people the wrong way.” I mean, people are saying they would rather have John Lackey manage the team than Valentine. Come on. Valentine wouldn’t be my choice, either (I liked Mackanin…oh well), but all of this “let’s get up in arms about Valentine!” stuff just seems really misplaced to me. His effect on the team’s ability to win would be so miniscule in relation to the other candidates.
yes, some people are being irrational about it
but notice I didn’t post that under something you said, it was just the attitude. Pretty sure most of it’s just silly hyperbole, like when I said that I didn’t think I could be the fan anymore if they hired him.
and really, conjecture and rumor is all that we have
because none of us have been in the dugout in games
I have no problem with Valentine
he is experienced, he wont be pushed around by players like Beckett, and he values VETERANS v. prospects or rookies. He was also known in Japan with Chiba Lotte as having one of the best rotations in the league.
Seems solid to me.
Manger's role is overblown
Bobby V will be just fine
The 2011 Over the Monster Gedman League Fantasy Baseball Champion
I hate free agency
I'm not so sure he'll be fine
While we can argue the Xs and Os about Valentine’s strategy, there are other problems. Bobby V is a well-known ego-maniac, who doesn’t play well with others. He isn’t very good at taking direction from the FO. That’s bound to cause friction (and it was the reason Grady Little was fired).
Also, many seem to think Bobby V would correct the “problems” in the Sox’ clubhouse. But, Valentine’s 2002 Mets team was even worse than the 2011 Red Sox. In my opinion, Valentine is a bad fit for Boston.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Nov 21, 2011 12:20 PM EST up reply actions
I'm not a fan of Bobby V.
But the 2002 season and their “problems” were similar to the “problems” the Sox had this year. He had been there a long time, not just a year.
by aubatron2011 on Nov 21, 2011 1:07 PM EST up reply actions
Drug use is a lot worse than an occasional beer. I never said he was there for just a year in 2002. The example of 2002 shows that the idea that Bobby V runs a tight ship is somewhat flawed.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Nov 21, 2011 1:11 PM EST up reply actions
I agree about the drug use being worse than an occassional beer.
I just think being in one place for a long time makes the people around you thinking they can get away with more because they know you. Whoever the manager is, Bobby V. or somebody else, the players won’t have the comfort factor they had with Tito, so for the first year they won’t try and exploit the fact they have know him, like they seemed to with Francona.
by aubatron2011 on Nov 21, 2011 1:18 PM EST up reply actions
I agree about the players being on their best behavior for any new manager
That’s why the idea that the Sox need Bobby V is flawed.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Nov 21, 2011 1:44 PM EST up reply actions
I agree.
My favorite idea I’ve heard was floated out by Gordon Edes, hiring LaMont as manager, with Lovullo as Bench Coach. Given LaMont is 65, he might not be around for that long so give Lovullo the experience of being a bench coach so when LaMont retires, the Sox have their manager in waiting. They had that in Farrell and before that Mills, but Tito was younger than LaMont so he wasn’t going to retire any time soon, and the Sox ownership and FO wouldn’t have the stones to fire Tito, until after this collapse.
by aubatron2011 on Nov 21, 2011 2:07 PM EST up reply actions
I can see it now....
All the Tito haters waxing poetic about him during Bobby V’s tenure. Well, at least he’ll get Beckett under 30 seconds between pitches. ;)
"Man you are one pathetic loser. No offense." - Lloyd Christmas
by Lloyd Christmas on Nov 20, 2011 2:24 PM EST reply actions
I wrote a haiku, seemed appropriate
Bobby Valentine
Oh shit, fuck, seriously?
Please no, Cherington
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
DFA Rev Halofan, The New York Yankees, The Tampa Bay Blue Seats, Carl Crawford, John Lackey, Darnell McDonald, Dave Magadan, Tim Bogar, Buck Showalter, Dan Johnson, Hawk Harrelson, Jonah Keri, Murray Chass, Mark Sanchez, Micheal Vick, Jared Allen, Jerry Jones, Al Davis, Rex Ryan, Rob Ryan, Trent Dilfer, Heath Evans, Cris Carter, Vuvuzelas, The Chicken Dance, Lady Gaga, Justin Bieber, Stephanie Meyer, and the entire fucking city of Philadelphia.
by TheLoneDavid on Nov 20, 2011 4:23 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
its not Cherington's call to make
Larry is running the show
The 2011 Over the Monster Gedman League Fantasy Baseball Champion
I hate free agency
I guess Lucchino would have fit there too.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
DFA Rev Halofan, The New York Yankees, The Tampa Bay Blue Seats, Carl Crawford, John Lackey, Darnell McDonald, Dave Magadan, Tim Bogar, Buck Showalter, Dan Johnson, Hawk Harrelson, Jonah Keri, Murray Chass, Mark Sanchez, Micheal Vick, Jared Allen, Jerry Jones, Al Davis, Rex Ryan, Rob Ryan, Trent Dilfer, Heath Evans, Cris Carter, Vuvuzelas, The Chicken Dance, Lady Gaga, Justin Bieber, Stephanie Meyer, and the entire fucking city of Philadelphia.
by TheLoneDavid on Nov 20, 2011 11:24 PM EST up reply actions
Anytime I see Bobby V
I want to punch him, anytime I hear him I want to kick him. I could not in good conscious cheer for that thing managing the Sox.
by AverageJoeEveryman on Nov 21, 2011 4:58 PM EST reply actions
I dunno, on the other hand
you’d be able to watch sunday night baseball again. Might end up listening to him talk less.
Well looks like Ryno is out.
Apparently he is going back to be the Phillies Triple-A manager in 2012.
by The Name is Dalton on Nov 22, 2011 8:48 AM EST reply actions
3 organizations, including the Cubs passed on this guy
Maybe he is not ready to manage a MLB franchise.
PLease do not make the biggest mistake yet and make Bobby Valentine the Manager.
He’s been managing in Japan for years for a reason. He’s terrible.
Official Driver of the Draft Andy Dalton Winnebago. In the sidecar of the draft Mark Ingram motorcycle.
by NavajoShamanSchoolAlum on Nov 22, 2011 1:50 PM EST reply actions
5 years and he won a title in Japan
regardless of you opinion of Japan baseball, he was very successful with basically an expansion team that could never beat Tokyo’s top teams. He signed a 3 year deal and got an extension after he won the Nippon Championship. He has been back in the US longer than his tenure in Japan.
I think that is something to be respected for, not criticized.
I like Japanese baseball. A. It's very different then MLB. B. He's been away from MLB without a job offer...
for a reason. Nothing at all against Japanes baseball.
Official Driver of the Draft Andy Dalton Winnebago. In the sidecar of the draft Mark Ingram motorcycle.
by NavajoShamanSchoolAlum on Nov 23, 2011 3:42 PM EST up reply actions
Bobby V
he is the best option.
The 2011 Over the Monster Gedman League Fantasy Baseball Champion
I hate free agency
I would be a better option than Valentine.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
DFA Rev Halofan, The New York Yankees, The Tampa Bay Blue Seats, Carl Crawford, John Lackey, Darnell McDonald, Dave Magadan, Tim Bogar, Buck Showalter, Dan Johnson, Hawk Harrelson, Jonah Keri, Murray Chass, Mark Sanchez, Micheal Vick, Jared Allen, Jerry Jones, Al Davis, Rex Ryan, Rob Ryan, Trent Dilfer, Heath Evans, Cris Carter, Vuvuzelas, The Chicken Dance, Lady Gaga, Justin Bieber, Stephanie Meyer, and the entire fucking city of Philadelphia.
by TheLoneDavid on Nov 22, 2011 10:28 PM EST up reply actions
And no, this isn't hyperbole.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
DFA Rev Halofan, The New York Yankees, The Tampa Bay Blue Seats, Carl Crawford, John Lackey, Darnell McDonald, Dave Magadan, Tim Bogar, Buck Showalter, Dan Johnson, Hawk Harrelson, Jonah Keri, Murray Chass, Mark Sanchez, Micheal Vick, Jared Allen, Jerry Jones, Al Davis, Rex Ryan, Rob Ryan, Trent Dilfer, Heath Evans, Cris Carter, Vuvuzelas, The Chicken Dance, Lady Gaga, Justin Bieber, Stephanie Meyer, and the entire fucking city of Philadelphia.
by TheLoneDavid on Nov 22, 2011 10:29 PM EST up reply actions
I dunno,
just seems plain dumb to me that you can get in that much trouble for betting that the team you’re managing will win. If he was betting against them, I’d understand…
It depends
he could have mismanaged the team during earlier games to drive up the odds in his favor.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
DFA Rev Halofan, The New York Yankees, The Tampa Bay Blue Seats, Carl Crawford, John Lackey, Darnell McDonald, Dave Magadan, Tim Bogar, Buck Showalter, Dan Johnson, Hawk Harrelson, Jonah Keri, Murray Chass, Mark Sanchez, Micheal Vick, Jared Allen, Jerry Jones, Al Davis, Rex Ryan, Rob Ryan, Trent Dilfer, Heath Evans, Cris Carter, Vuvuzelas, The Chicken Dance, Lady Gaga, Justin Bieber, Stephanie Meyer, and the entire fucking city of Philadelphia.
by TheLoneDavid on Nov 28, 2011 2:20 AM EST up reply actions
Baseball only has ever really had one rule since 1919
Don’t bet on the goddamn game. It was on every wall in every clubhouse. You could lean up against it while injecting steroids into your face, slam a black guy’s face into it, or throw darts at it while drinking your usual pregame sixpack. Baseball never cared a lick about the actions of its players and managers as long as they weren’t betting.
by Sean O on Nov 28, 2011 7:40 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
rec'd
if you allow guys to bet on the game, might as well not play it.
Rose should remain banned for life.
The 2011 Over the Monster Gedman League Fantasy Baseball Champion
I hate free agency
I sign this petition...
Bobby Valentine is not a championship caliber manager. That’s all that needs to be said.
he won a championship in Japan
The 2011 Over the Monster Gedman League Fantasy Baseball Champion
I hate free agency
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