As I first reported yesterday, Theo deal is basically done + press conf. should be tomorrow. He will be Pres. of Baseball ops. Jed Hoyer GM
7 months ago
Marc Normandin
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Wow
That is a lot of FO movement from multiple teams. I wonder what it will cost the Cubs to buy off both Theo and Hoyer from their contracts.
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well
early indications seem to be that the Hoyer thing won’t be that big a deal, as Moorad loves Byrnes and would be fine giving him the GM job. Furthermore, Moorad supposedly has a great relationship with Ricketts. I imagiine there will still be compensation of some sort (although, San Diego could pass on compensation and allow Hoyer to move if they wanted to, I guess) but the news out of Chicago seems to suggest that it will go smoothly.
Not sure about Hoyer leaving San Diego after two years
Seems kinda….lame for him to do that.
by South Coast Ghost on Oct 20, 2011 11:33 AM EDT reply actions
As has been mentioned
Moorad loves Josh Byrnes, who the Padres scooped up as soon as possible. I don’t think there would be any ill will on either side in this situation.
Twitter: @Marc_Normandin
by Marc Normandin on Oct 20, 2011 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions
Except from maybe the fans
Gaslamp Ball doesn’t seem too happy to be losing Hoyer and gaining Byrnes as the GM.
by South Coast Ghost on Oct 20, 2011 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions
Well
I’m a Padres fan in addition to being a Red Sox fan (you can blame my mother for raising me this way). And my problems with it are about the same as my problems with Theo leaving. I’d rather not, but it’s not the worst thing in the world to be replaced by someone capable and experienced.
Twitter: @Marc_Normandin
by Marc Normandin on Oct 20, 2011 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions
Petco Park...
… is a damn fine place to watch a ball game.
Tampa Bay Rays Championships: Still Zero
"Playoffs?!? Don't talk about playoffs! Are you kidding me? I just hope we can win a game!"
- Jim Mora, seeing through space and time to describe the 2011 Boston Red Sox
by nuthinboutnuthin on Oct 20, 2011 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Sadly
When I’ve been to San Diego (hooray Comic Con!) the Padres aren’t in town.
Twitter: @Marc_Normandin
by Marc Normandin on Oct 20, 2011 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions
It is indeed
I went to a game there a couple of years back. Really nice park, I thought it was funny I was surrounded by three Astros fans, a small group of Cubs fans, a family of Red Sox fans (not with me), a small group of Yankee fans, and one guy from the San Diego area who wasn’t really a fan, but was there with his buddies (the three Astros fans).
The Padres were playing none of those teams.
by The Name is Dalton on Oct 20, 2011 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Sounds like Moorad prefers having Byrnes in charge anyways
which means it may be the type of situation where Moorad said something like “we’ll let you go to Chicago, or you can stay here, but if you stay here, Byrnes is going to be very heavily involved in the decision-making” and Hoyer decided he’d prefer to work under Theo than under Byrnes.
Well...
Hoyer was hand-picked by Moorad to be GM, too, it’s not like Hoyer was already there when Moorad came around. But Moorad also likes to be involved in decisions, so the overall sentiment of more freedom in Chicago is probably real.
Twitter: @Marc_Normandin
by Marc Normandin on Oct 20, 2011 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions
Damn, this is crazy.
Chicago has a lot of intellectual talent in that front office. They could soon be on the road to being a juggernaut.
They have one of the smallest front offices in baseball
Crazily enough, this is getting them up to speed, not putting them miles ahead. Not to take anything away from two great GMs, of course, but they still have more to add on both the field and in the baseball ops offices.
Twitter: @Marc_Normandin
by Marc Normandin on Oct 20, 2011 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions
Right, but Theo and Hoyer clearly know their stuff.
I assume they will be correcting all those flaws when they arrive.
"Boston is expected to receive at least one top-level prospect, perhaps RHP Trey McNutt, and a low-level prospect."
Via the Trib
Tampa Bay Rays Championships: Still Zero
"Playoffs?!? Don't talk about playoffs! Are you kidding me? I just hope we can win a game!"
- Jim Mora, seeing through space and time to describe the 2011 Boston Red Sox
by nuthinboutnuthin on Oct 20, 2011 12:03 PM EDT reply actions
At this point
I will sit back and wait for compensation news, as everything is conflicting.
Twitter: @Marc_Normandin
by Marc Normandin on Oct 20, 2011 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Isn't it just?
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USG
by Ben Buchanan on Oct 20, 2011 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Aww Hell Here We Go Again:
Sources: #RedSox give Curt Young permission to talk to A’s
http://twitter.com/#!/bradfo/status/127094014674599936
I wonder if THEY will take Lackey's contract to compensate us for our terrible loss.
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
Can't wait to pick up a new pitching coach everyone will be hopeful over!
Just like last year…
by South Coast Ghost on Oct 20, 2011 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions
I saw a kind of funny article a Chicago Tribune writer wrote
entitled “Epstein reports rankle Red Sox owner”.
It was funny, because in the article, the writer clearly had not spoken to Henry, and only quoted Henry as saying “not close” (presumably from Cafarado, who reported that he said that).
How exactly do you get that he is “rankled” from a two word quote, when no one is reporting that he was upset about it?
Because the media from both sides is trying to influence and incite as many people as possible
Word came out from one side that Lucchino and the Sox were getting personal and holding up talks to stick it to Theo, then those reports were refuted by the other side and it was said the reason the talks are being held up is because the Cubs’ farm system sucks and are trying desperately to hold on to what little value they have left in it. Then that story is refuted by the other side and suddenly the Sox owner could further delay the talks because he’s annoyed by the reports.
by South Coast Ghost on Oct 20, 2011 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions
no, I just thought it was funny
because his source was the Boston media and he was deriving a completely different conclusion from the article
All I care about
is the fact that deal is going to be done, and we can stop talking about the B.S. that has surrounded the Sox over the last couple weeks. We can finally start talking about moves that the new GM, Ben Cherington, should make. At least the ones we think he should make.
by aubatron2011 on Oct 20, 2011 4:11 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Personally,
I think this whole Theo-to-the-Cubs drama, and how long it took get done, has fueled a lot of the fire. If he had stayed, this could have been over a long time ago. If he left, and they had been able to work out the deal a long time ago, this past season would have been just that, the past season.
by aubatron2011 on Oct 20, 2011 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions
It created a vacuum around the Sox because they were essentially paralyzed from doing business, with the former GM (Theo) and new GM (Ben) basically not knowing what was the true story and neither had much power.
by aubatron2011 on Oct 20, 2011 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't see any reason to believe Cherington is impaired in any way during this
at exercising the appropriate duties needed right now. Independent of what happens with Theo, there doesn’t seem to be any reason to doubt that Cherington has all the authority he needs.
The fact that the playoffs have not ended limits some of what can be done right now anyway. Teams can’t interview any of the playoff team coaches & FO personnel until they are done – and it is not uncommon that THOSE folks are high on the interview lists of teams looking to fill coaching and FO slots. This has ripple effects that holds a lot of moves up throughout baseball.
Seriously, “how long it took to get done”? This has only been going on for a couple of weeks. I’ve spent far longer in several job negotiations. Patience, young man.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.
I know, but the fact
that Theo has been showing up to the Office in Boston, shows that he is still in charge. If this whole thing had been ended in a speedy fashion, than you know this is Ben’s team, where as you still have the feeling that Theo’s in charge, Ben is just making sure he knows what exactly is going and can not execute anything yet. Plus, take into consideration almost all the potential managerial candidates that have been thrown around for the Sox are out of the playoffs, so if they wanted to interview and possibly hire D. Martinez, S. Alomar Jr. et al, they would be able to, but with the weird setup they have now it can’t happen.
by aubatron2011 on Oct 20, 2011 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions
"that Theo has been showing up to the Office in Boston, shows that he is still in charge."
It does? And you know this … how?
“where as you still have the feeling that Theo’s in charge”
No, I don’t have that feeling. You apparently do.
Even if the Sox don’t have any interest in any of the personnel currently still in the playoffs (and you have NO way of really knowing that) they still are dealing with other teams who may.
I make no assumptions at all about what is going on because I am honest enough to admit I don’t know. But it doesn’t take much imagination to realize that a transaction between teams A & B could be held up waiting for some transaction between teams B & C. B may only want to give up someone if they can cover themselves with another pickup. Or maybe someone is going to be acquired just to be moved. There are lots of possibilities.
Again, just be patient. It will play out when it plays out.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.
Well,
it’s being reported that Theo is at the office in Boston and is acting is conducting business as usual. So that tells me there’s weird setup right now.
by aubatron2011 on Oct 20, 2011 7:52 PM EDT up reply actions
right, he's at his office
he is still employed by the Red Sox. It would be odd if he decided to just not show up for work. Doesn’t mean he’s still making the decisions. He’s probably still giving input. Sounds like he’s mostly spending his time daydreaming about his new front office personnel
I'm not saying Theo's
making decisions, what I’m saying is Ben can’t, because while’s been told he will be the GM, until Theo is officially in Chicago, he is still the GM of the Red Sox. Therefore Theo is still in charge.
by aubatron2011 on Oct 20, 2011 8:38 PM EDT up reply actions
um not if the owners have told Ben that he can make decisions
a title is a title, but if they’ve decided Ben is in charge, he can make decisions.
John Henry can tell the hot dog guy to make hiring decisions if he sees fit.
Then why is Theo
bothering to show up? To just collect a paycheck?
by aubatron2011 on Oct 20, 2011 8:58 PM EDT up reply actions
he's still employed.
Yeah, to honor his contract and collect a paycheck. I’m sure that Ben and Lucchino are probably still getting his opinion on things and Theo is probably helping Ben transition to being the GM
He's signed a different
contract, with the Cubs. Therefore, he doesn’t have to show up at Yawkey Way, because he still have the contract with the Cubs. He’s not gone until MLB approves the deal. None of these moves are official until MLB signs off on the deal, so while John Henry may have given Ben decision making authority, until Bud Selig allows Theo to leave officially leave the building, he’s the GM of the Red Sox. Unless I missed something.
by aubatron2011 on Oct 20, 2011 9:48 PM EDT up reply actions
no, he's not
he has agreed to a contract with the Cubs, but it is not signed and can’t be signed until the Sox agree to release him from his current one. Selig has no say whatsoever in who is the GM of what team.
He officially works for the Red Sox, and not the Cubs, and Henry can give the authority to whoever he wants.
Selig has no
say in who his the GM of what team, but he has say over the deals that are made. This deal is not official so Theo is still with the Sox and the Sox have officially named Cherington the GM, they have said he’ll be when Theo leaves, and they have said the managerial search has put been on hold till after this is resolved, so either Ben has no power yet, or they just want Theo out of there.
by aubatron2011 on Oct 20, 2011 10:00 PM EDT up reply actions
it doesn't matter what the title is
just because he’s called the GM doesn’t specify how much power he has. The Orioles, for example, had no GM this year. Same with the Rays. It doesn’t matter when it’s made official, they can delegate decision-making whenever they want.
The Rays had
a GM, he just didn’t get paid.
by aubatron2011 on Oct 20, 2011 11:04 PM EDT up reply actions
no, no, that's not true at all
they had an executive VP of baseball operations who performed the same job as GMs usually do, and did get paid.
Actually,
he requested a very low salary, I believe it was a dollar because of the team’s money restraints.
by aubatron2011 on Oct 21, 2011 10:07 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't think that's true
least not that I’ve seen anywhere. He does work without a contract, but gets paid AND has an ownership stake in the team.
I read it somewhere
that he has a low salary. My point was whole Theo is the lasting thing from the 2011 collapse, the quicker it gets done, the quicker we can move and stop talking about the B.S around the team, which I’m sure most of us would want to stop talking about. Theo being there along with Ben gives the picture that the Organization is unstable. Which plays into the media’s narrative. When the Theo situation is over, the Sox can start with a clean slate.
by aubatron2011 on Oct 21, 2011 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions
Nick Cafardo,
who knows more about the situation, just said on NESN daily that Theo is carrying out the same duties he had before. Therefore he has the power.
by aubatron2011 on Oct 20, 2011 11:21 PM EDT up reply actions
No. That means squat.
Unless you see Theo exercise an executive decision of significance, that report means nothing.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.
They're certainly still going over the candidates
And I don’t know if you’ve noticed but… the pool hasn’t shrunk at all. Right now it’s all leg work, the interns do half of that crap anyway. The real decisions aren’t usually made until after the WS anyway.
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
Then how were the
White Sox able to hire their Manager. Oh yeah that’s right they have an official GM-Ken Williams. Until the Theo situation is resolved, the Sox have said they have put on hold the managerial search so the GM can make the decisions. Right now, the GM position is in limbo. Theo is waiting for the Sox and Cubs to come to an agreement before he gives up the position to go the Cubs, but he has to come to work because he’s techinically still under contract with the Sox.
by aubatron2011 on Oct 20, 2011 11:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Don't know if you were paying attention
But… the White Sox didn’t hire Ventura . He was promoted, he was already working for the team. Our pool of managerial candidates didn’t shrink at all. Ventura played for the White Sox, that was the job he wanted.
It doesn’t matter if we have a functioning GM or not. Ownership can name whoever the hell it wants to make the decision. Who do you think hires GMs? We know who our GM is going to be, so while they deal with the Theo thing, they are also working on who they think as a manager would work well with Ben. They have time to get it done and, the candidates aren’t flying off the shelves before we get a chance to select them. If ownership gives him the go ahead, Ben can start hiring whenever he chooses, or Theo can. Just because both exist in the team hierarchy doesn’t mean that all work is at a standstill.
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
Well,
when the team says that the Managerial search is on hold, it’s on hold.
by aubatron2011 on Oct 21, 2011 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm sure they mean that in the sense that they won't hire anyone
Until Theo is gone. The interns have to do something, what they are doing is going through all the candidates now. People aren’t moping about the office waiting for Larry to come back from the Cubs meetings daily ready to hear the news. They are working. There are more people in that office than Theo and Ben.
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
If the Sox dont get at least one of
McNutt or Brett Jackson, Theo should be ashamed of himself. Really, the Cubs ask permission, make demands, the Sox capitulate and the Sox get nothing for an executive who brought 2 WS rings.
Really? Now Hoyer is going and other Theo disciples. Wow. Did everyone just get bent over the table by the crappy Cubs FO?
So a has been overrated manager, who i love to hear interviewed, gets a better haul than the top GM in baseball in the past decade?
Theo and the Sox should be ashamed of themselves.
I wonder what the Yankees would of gotten for Cashman. Yankees would of told the Cubs to kiss their backsides and paid Cashman to sit on a beach for a year just to Eff with the Cubbies.
Because after all
There is no crying shame in baseball!
NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.
well first of all
let’s not get all pissed at the front office before we’ve actually heard what we’re getting
second of all, the situation is much more complicated than you’re making it sound there
and third of all, the Yankees would have gotten exactly nothing for Cashman, as his contract is up.
Oh, and fourth, Theo is not negotiating for either side on this.
KLaw's take on Jackson, McNutt, etc.
Keith Law answered a number of questions on Chicago’s prospects during today’s ESPN chat. Here are a few:
Adam (Chicago) [via mobile]
KLaw- Last week, you watched Trey McNutt…anything for Cubs fans to look forward to from him?
Klaw (1:10 PM)
Or Red Sox fans? He’s a good athlete with arm strength who’ll flash an above-average breaking ball, but he’s not repeating his delivery at all, not the arm path, not the release point. Fair amount of work to do there but with upside of a 2-3 starter if you can get him some consistency.
Tom (Madison, WI)
I’ve heard Jackson, McNutt and Szczur won’t be part of the Theo compensation. Is there anyone left in the Cubs weak system to get remotely excited about?
Klaw (1:18 PM)
Cubs system isn’t “weak,” but it’s bottom-heavy. Szczur’s an extra outfielder anyway, so I wouldn’t be thrilled with him as a return for Boston. I’d be interested in Cashner.
Dan (Chicago)
I’ve heard the reports about Andrew Cashner hitting triple digits this fall but more importantly how’s he spotting his fastball and how does the offspeed stuff look??? would you give him another shot to see if his arm can hold up in the rotation considering the lack of SP in the cubs organization top to bottom?
Klaw (1:20 PM)
Changeup is plus. Can’t put him in the rotation in 2012, IMO, because you’d be pushing his shoulder too far. Let him relieve next year, work on building up strength around the joint, and reassess after the season.
Brian (Indianapolis)
What do you see Brett Jackson’s upside being? Should the Cubs have pulled him off the table so soon?
Klaw (1:41 PM)
Solid average regular, below-average contact rates/OBP buoyed by position/defense.
Steven (Kingsport)
Jackson, McNutt and Szczur for Theo? If I am Ricketts, I do all three and walk away laughing at my good fortune. Heck I’d throw in Vitters just to be charitable. One of Theo’s strengths is surrounding himself with good people and trusting what they tell him so if they get Hoyer and McLeod too, WOW, just tremendous intellectual capital.
Klaw (1:48 PM)
I agree. These prospects are getting wildly overrated. McNutt is the one guy there with some star potential, but he is low enough probability that I’d be fine parting with him to get one of the game’s strongest front offices.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Oct 20, 2011 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions
I wouldn't call what the White Sox got for Ozzie as very good at all.
A SS with an OPS that is usually sub .700 and a pitcher with a career ERA over 4.00. He has reliever written all over him, huge K numbers, but similarly massive BB numbers. Wasn’t impressed at all. Marlins system is mostly crap.
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
Agreed
The Sox don’t need to get McNutt or Jackson back to get a better return compared to what Ozzie fetched the White Sox.
by South Coast Ghost on Oct 20, 2011 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions
yup
I tried to tell SoxAcumen in that other thread. I think the middle infielder might have a shot to be a starter on a bad squad, but the reliever is a dime-a-dozen guy. Almost every system has a hard thrower or two with poor secondary stuff. Their high ranking speaks more to the weakness of the Marlins system.
Late Thursday night article saying McNutt is off the table
That said, at this stage, it seems as if both teams are using local media, so everything should be taken with a grain of salt.
Just want to note
Selig is speculating on having to MEDIATE. Before that nut (not you toon) comes back saying “I was right” he wasn’t, mediation is different that arbitration. An arbiter will force a decision, a mediator will facilitate decisions, even if it means both clubs pulling back and no deal occurring.
Just clarifying.
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
Not to mention, even the threat of third party intervention is a tactical decision
To put pressure on the two sides to get something done. It’s not unusual.
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