The Poop Hits The Fans
Lest you think differently, this is Daily Links. I didn't include it in the title because this really isn't about baseball writing from different corners of the internet. We'll get back to that in short order, but instead, there is a single issue worth discussing and it is as all-encompassing as the anger Red Sox fans feel over the outcome of the 2011 season.
Yesterday the Boston Globe printed an article by Bob Hohler which, as they say, named names. The article calls out Terry Francona, John Lackey, Josh Beckett, Jon Lester, Clay Buchholz, Jason Varitek, Tim Wakefied, and Adrian Gonzalez. To a lesser extent it mentions in Jacoby Ellsbury and his icy relationship with the team.
To sum up, according to the article the team's best player in Ellsbury hates them. Yay! Francona was a pill popping recluse. Beckett, Lester, Lackey and to a lesser extent Buchholz are worthless do-nothings who held up in the clubhouse drinking beer, eating ice cream, mainlining lard, and playing stupid video games while the city burned. Tim Wakefield only cares about reaching the team's all time win mark, nothing more, including eating and breathing air. The team took advantage of Francona's trust and John Henry's largess all the while the strength coach occasionally tapped one of the pitchers on the shoulder to say, "Um, excuse me, kind sir, but might I inquire if you've done your conditioning work today?" to which the pitchers replied, "Back off, Dork. Why don't you make like a tree and get out of here or I'll stuff you back into your locker again!"
The only player who cared whether the Red Sox won or lost was Dustin Pedroia whose tears and sweat after every loss did fill the Charles River to it's brim. Also Kevin Youkilis was a whiny poophead.
Yes, this article is chalk full of revelations, most of them kind of ridiculous. Did the team quit on Francona? The results on the field indicate so, but that's too easy. Blaming all the players and coaches for not caring and not working hard enough, which is essentially what this article does, smacks of so much Monday morning quarterbacking. The team folded, but even if that were the problem, there was more to it than simply not caring about the outcome of the games. The players certainly cared (read: won) enough in the first five months of the season. Because that's what this is really saying, isn't it? The team lost so they must not have cared enough. After therefore because of. Look, I'm certain the players could have worked harder, the front office could have made better decisions, and the pitchers could have had less beer and eaten fewer lard cubes. The team was a single game from a one game playoff and two wins from the playoffs after all.
The truth is that Bob Hohler's article is for the most part a bunch of hearsay. But even it it's all true, every last word of it, so what? Francona is gone and if reports are to be believed Epstein has a foot and a half out the door as well. John Lackey and Carl Crawford aren't going anywhere and neither is Jon Lester, Josh Beckett, or Clay Buchholz. The team you saw in 2011 is going to make up the vast majority of the team you see in 2012.
More links after the jump...
Because you weren't happy enough as it is, Daisuke Matsuzaka gave an interview in to something or someone called Sponichi. This person and/or entity and/or supreme deity asked a series of penetrating questions, like, 'I see you've taken up bike riding," and "Did your family help you through your tough times?" and "Is your objection to throwing strikes religious in foundation?" Yes, I made that last one up.
So Theo may have made this bed, but he's almost up and out the door anyway, headed down the hall to rip the covers off another mattress. The Cubs have reportedly offered Theo a magic lighthouse with an unlimited supply of unicorn meat, a generous salary, and a chance to meet and greet with Alfonso Soriano. How can you pass that up? Meanwhile back at the cat ranch, the Red Sox are trying to convince him to stay. Apparently both Carl Crawford and John Lackey have put in calls, Josh Beckett has sent a copy of Call of Doody, and Jon Lester has sent him a case of Buds. Tim Wakfeild is hiding in Epstein's bushes banging on the window every thirty seconds and shouting, "How 'bout now?"
Finally, the great Joe Posnanski lays out the ten worst contracts in baseball, and in doing so accidentally asks the question, "Maybe it isn't so bad if Theo goes to the Cubs after all.
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Looks like it's a done deal other than compensation
Theo is gone. What a terrible way to end these guys time here.
And we, the Sox fans, get stuck with a bunch of quitting, lazy prima donnas. Good to know our entire pitching rotation doesn’t care.
by The Name is Dalton on Oct 12, 2011 7:14 AM EDT reply actions
Not just the entire pitching rotation.
According to the article, half the position players and all of the front office and ownership as well!
Clearly, if we accept the Bob Hohler article, there are only 2 or 3 people in the entirety of the Red Sox organization who care at all about winning.
No exageration. We read it in print so it HAS to be true!
NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.
Not really sure if this is supposed to be mocking or trolling
But I don’t just automatially assume everything in the article is true or not an exaggeration. However the drinking and f’ing off in the clubhouse by pitchers/players has come out before as well, and never really been denied. Francona admitted that there were players that didn’t care enough to sit in the dugout to support their team. My comment wasn’t just based on Hohler’s article.
The Francona smearing were cheap shots and to be honest probably irrellevent because Francona not taking a couple pain pills isn’t going to make these pitchers able to get past the fifth inning or get them in the dugout to support teammates.
by The Name is Dalton on Oct 12, 2011 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions
Heh - I may have mis-read your comment.
I assumed you were mocking the Hohler article. A statement like “Good to know our entire pitching rotation doesn’t care.” is such an obvious exaggeration that it seemed likely that you were indeed mocking the article.
I admit freely that my intention was to join you in mocking it, if that was what you were doing.
If not, I apologize if it seemed like I was mocking you.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.
No worries I probably also misread your comment. Nature of the Internet.
In a way, I do somewhat find the article somewhat laughable with all the rumors and TMZ nonsense in there. He had a ton of idiotic exaggerations in there, such as the for every player playing hard there was one who didn’t. I don’t think it is that widespread. And the Tito stuff was shameful.
The reports on the rotation guys spending time in the clubhouse aren’t new and Tito has said “some” players didn’t really care enough to sit out and support their team, although he didn’t name names. I don’t think anyone has denied the beer drinking but I don’t think anyone has really confirmed it either (“Hell yeah baby! Bud heavies all around!!”), so I tried to keep that out of my comment.
I should’ve left “entire” out of my comment and added “apparently doesn’t” care. Even with Wakefield saying how he wants to come back to chase a statistic, I think he probably did care but at 45 I can’t really say his lackluster performance was due to lack of motivation.
by The Name is Dalton on Oct 12, 2011 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions
And my comment should've been on one of the Theo threads
But my OTM homepage is screwed up and for some reason only showing the top article.
by The Name is Dalton on Oct 12, 2011 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions
Articles like this say alot about the things they decide to leave out.
Say what you like about Lackey, Beckett and Lester.
The bottom line is that at least they showed up and for most of the season, played to the best of their abilities. They didn’t “quit” so much as they were “demoralized”.
But the biggest “Primadona” is the one that Hohler refuses to even mention:
""In springtime, there proved to be regrettable irony in the entire starting rotation – Beckett, Lackey, Lester, Tim Wakefield, and Clay Buchholz""
The name that Hohler is concealing is the first pitcher that Terry Francona began to lose total control over due to interference from the brass;
Daisuke Matsuzaka.
And, no, this is not an innocent omission on Hohler’s part.
In the end...
Hohler’s article is a typical result of what happens when an organization unravels.
To find out who in the Red Sox organization is feeding him “information” or “disinformation”, all you have to do is start with the players and personnel who AREN’T mentioned in the article.
That’s how you start identifying the cowards who make accusations like this behind anonymity.
Beckett, Lackey and Lester didn’t “quit” on the Red Sox – no matter what Hohler and his hit-piece would like you to believe.
The real quitters mailed in their seasons months ago.
um ... are you saying
a) Dice-K is the source of the anonymous accusations?
or
b) Dice-K decided to ‘mail in his season’ … by tearing a tendon in his arm and needing tommy-john surgery? That that was a choice?
NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.
I'm waiting for when Dice-K's translator is revealed to be a robot
And Dice-K himself takes the stage and begins speaking perfect English. With a British accent, of course.
Dice-K is obviously a cylon.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
DFA Rev Halofan, The New York Yankees, The Tampa Bay Blue Seats, Carl Crawford, John Lackey, Darnell McDonald, Curt Young, Dave Magadan, Tim Bogar, Buck Showalter, Dan Johnson, Hawk Harrelson, Jonah Keri, Murray Chass, Mark Sanchez, Micheal Vick, Jared Allen, Jerry Jones, Al Davis, Rex Ryan, Rob Ryan, Trent Dilfer, Heath Evans, Cris Carter, Vuvuzelas, The Chicken Dance, Lady Gaga, Justin Bieber, Stephanie Meyer, and the entire fucking city of Philadelphia.
by TheLoneDavid on Oct 12, 2011 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions
By your command ...
NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.
Reply failure, sorry.
I was going to say, “That’s how you start guessing who the cowards are making these accusations.” There are dozens of people who could’ve theoretically leaked this stuff. Coaches, Trainers, etc. You can point fingers at Dice-K but why not Bard or Aceves or Scutaro, etc. I’m guessing just because Dice-K had past issues? There is some sense to that, but Jacoby could’ve theoretically leaked all of this too.
Also, I’m not sure if it was convenient or by mistake, but you probably could’ve put the whole quote in to provide proper context.
In springtime, there proved to be regrettable irony in the entire starting rotation – Beckett, Lackey, Lester, Tim Wakefield, and Clay Buchholz – donning Sox uniforms and hamming it up in front of the Green Monster for a video of a country music ditty, "Hell Yeah, I Like Beer.’’
I imagine that Dice-K had his name excluded because he wasn’t in the video. Yes, the word “entire” should not have been used and instead “83% of the starting rotation”. But his name wasn’t excluded because of some conspiracy, he was alluding to a specific event Dice-K wasn’t involved in. In my opinion of course.
by The Name is Dalton on Oct 12, 2011 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions
And fair enough on those three guys not outright quitting so much as just not caring as much near the end.
There is a difference and I should’ve been more clear in noting that. But, in a way to me when you stop caring as much about what the team results are, it is in a way quitting on the team “concept”, I guess. Though not quitting in terms of not going out and physically trying to do your job.
by The Name is Dalton on Oct 12, 2011 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions
How Hohler decided to frame his premises
is less important than WHY he put up that premises.
The point has nothing to do with why they made a video in front of the Green Monster.
The point has to do with why Hohler took swipes at every starter in the Sox rotation except one.
So the obvious question is “Why”?
Because he was “injured” for most of the season?
So was Clay Buchholz.
Again: Why?
And the answer would be obvious to anyone who’s ever worked in baseball and even some without. Every profession whether sport, medical, military, engineering, etc has some degree of experience with media lackeys like Hohler.
And in an articles that fixates on the ineptitude of the Red Sox starters this season (including Buchholz), Hohler leaves a $103 million name conspicuously missing.
Why?
I'm not asking out of spite.
There are two – actually three – reasons why Hohler would leave Dice-K out of the article.
One has to do with how the Bob Woodwards of the world work by preying on the vulnerabilities of an organization in a state of transition or disarray.
One has to do with the powers that be trying to stay in power.
And the last has to do with the small-mindedness of the journalists themselves (always a safe bet).
Before I can answer your compelling, well-thought out question ...

NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.
When poop hits the interwebs
Is misspelling hearsay a heresy?
Probably
Writer at Over The Monster. Follow me on Twitter! It'll be super awesome fun! @mattymatty2000
by Matthew Kory on Oct 12, 2011 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions
Thanks for the memories
Epstein helped put together a team that won two World Series, ending a lifetime drought (Duquette actually deserves some credit, too). That being said, I’m actually in favor of a new GM. Epstein does very well with trades—I think Gonzalez will earn his contract—but not so well with high-priced free agents. More specifically, Theo has not done very well with the pitching staff.
I think the Red Sox need a fresh perspective to right the ship.
"You know you're having a bad day when the fifth inning rolls around and they drag the warning track." - Mike Flanagan, Baltimore Orioles pitcher, 1992.
What trades?
Wily Mo Pena for Bronson Arroyo? Nomar for Mientkiewicz and and Cabrera? Gonzalez for the entire top of our farm system (which really amounted to obtaining a free agent early with a few months of exclusive negotiation rights)? Those aren’t awful trades (well, except for Wily Mo), but they certainly aren’t good deals either.
The only trades Theo made that I can think of that were legitimately good were Schilling for Fossum and crap, and Byung-Hyung Kim for Shea Hillenbrand, but those happened many years ago.
To me, aside from the ones you mention
It seems like a lot of his trades earlier that were deemed successful were for roleplayers like a Kevin Millar, Dave Roberts, Mark Bellhorn, Coco Crisp, etc.
by The Name is Dalton on Oct 12, 2011 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Vmart, Bay
Amongst others. Bedard for almost nothing. He’s done pretty well at trades.
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
Disingenuous Tito-bashing
I think the reports about Francona’s pain-pill use and failing marriage are not particularly relevant. The guy has had about 20-dozen knee operations, so it’s not surprising he takes pain meds. At least Tito showed up for work everyday. I’ve never doubted his integrity.
"You know you're having a bad day when the fifth inning rolls around and they drag the warning track." - Mike Flanagan, Baltimore Orioles pitcher, 1992.
Yeah, that part of the article really let the air out of any credibility.
It really smacked of ‘reaching’.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.
They're not relevant
It’s not why the Red Sox lost.
What’s relevant is that this is the best dirt Hohler’s sources came up with to smear an outgoing Manager.
It’s kind of pathetic when you think about it.
No, the real decline of the Red Sox (not to mention their rotation) began and ended when John Farrell became extremely frustrated with his lack of control over certain pitchers (there was one in particular of course). Everything about Farrell’s departure can be traced in a semi-linear thread around the decline of the Red Sox.
In some sense, Terry probably could be faulted for not standing up to the Triumvirate of the Red Sox. But those issues were effectively taken out of his hands and as a result, Farrell languished and Francona shared the same fate.
That’s why owners assume authority from their managers – especially with regards to personnel – at their own risk.
Yes, the Triumvirate and their favored star may have escaped blame – nobody in baseball expected anything less.
But people in the business are well aware that Henry, Werner and Lucchino are a bunch of chumps who debased an iconic sportsteam.
Winning two World Series titles is debasing an iconic sports team?
NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.
The Triumvirate put together a team
By hiring the right people.
That’s what they were supposed to do when they bought the team: they delegated authority to people who actually knew how to run the business – in this case a baseball team.
And it worked.
The problem occurred in 2005 when they contracted something called “victory disease”.
To put it bluntly, they suddenly decided they were baseball gods.
Henry, Werner and Lucchino know squat about running a baseball team – in that sense, they’re just like your average fanboy.
And like all fanboys, they didn’t know what they didn’t know…and they weren’t willing to learn.
They started to take matters into their own hands. At first in 2005, they got rebuffed of course. Not that that stopped them for long.
The stories about their amateurism are legion.
But the ultimate undoing of the Red Sox was when the Triumvirate started to dabble in the poison pill of the NPB. Despite numerous warnings that the NPB was a promotional league meant to churn out “Japanese stars”, they actually played along believing that their personal marketing and negotiating skills were better than their entire organization’s stable of professionals.
This is a league, after all, that specifically prevents non-Japanese players from taking more than 4 roster spots and whose staff call different strike zones depending on the pitcher’s and batter’s race.
Can you imagine if MLB prevented Japanese from taking more than 2 roster spots on a team or restricted non-whites to 4 roster spots on a team?
That speaks to the kind of arrogance and ignorance the Triumvirate exhibited and lets you know why they paid 103 million for Dice-K. What kind of idiots hype up a pitcher beyond reason before he is signed – especially when it’s YOUR ballclub’s money that is going to have to pay for that kind of hype.
The Yankees brass will admit that they got taken in primarily by the Triumvirate’s shenanigans more than anyone. And that had as much to do with the younger Steinbrenners’ over-exuberance and inexperience (Hal also considered himself a smarter-than-thou promoter). George (rest his soul) would never have gotten into Matsuzaka or Igawa to begin with if he had been in charge.
And the shame of it is?
The young Steinbrenners learned their lessons far faster than the supposedly more mature “Old dudes”.
When Igawa gave Girardi and his pitching coach a hard time, they banished him to AAA – never to return. The Steinbrenners, being more mature, knew Igawa had crossed a line and didn’t undermine their manager (who would later reward them with a ring).
Exactly the same thing should have happened to Matsuzaka – only it didn’t.
The Triumvirate saved his hide over and over again – continually undermining Farrell and turning the manager into a lame duck.
And that’s only ONE example of how these idiot owners meddled in baseball operations for the worse.
I suggest everyone read this comment
in the voice of the father in So I Married an Axe Murderer.
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
OTM | Silver Seven
by Bloggy on Oct 12, 2011 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Awesome! That really does work! Much, much better read that way.
(For those who haven’t seen it: Mike Myers doing a heavy scottish brogue)
NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.
The constant repetition of "The Triumvirate"
immediately made me think of “The Pentavirate”. It was all smooth sailing from there…
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
OTM | Silver Seven
Funny, too...
The man has been taking Pain Pills for years and years.
It was in Sept 2011, though, that the pills made him unable to motivate his players.
AND… I know when I went thru my divorce a few years ago, it wasn’t easy. But you know what? I still kept my business afloat, worked every freaking day of the week; still spend every single hour I wasn’t either working or sleeping or meeting with a bloodsucking lawyer with my offspring, and managed.
What bullshit this article is.
The worst part is that it accepts anonymous sources as fact. And finds no one on the record to back up the backstabbers.
Anonymous sources are usually the same guys (and gals) who will do anything to stab you in the back at work in order to make themselves and their usual pathetic performances look better.
I’m no Sox fan but jeez. After ages Francona comes in and skippers 2 teams to World Series Titles; including one of the most amazing ALCS series comebacks anyone will ever see in any number of lifetimes.
And for this he gets to go out the door with anonymous ‘sources’ claiming his pain meds and divorce made him Mr Irrelevant.
by ConfofChamps on Oct 16, 2011 12:16 AM EDT up reply actions
"The Worst Contracts in Baseball"
This is stupid. Look at the teams being accused of having the worst contracts. Of the 10 players listed, NINE play on the Yankees, Red Sox, Angels, Phillies, Cubs, White Sox & San Francisco. And of those, 4 play on the Yankees & Red Sox.
Basically, these are the biggest MLB markets with the biggest budgets and of course, the biggest ‘bad’ contracts.
That doesn’t really make them the worst contracts.
It is far worse when a smaller market team signs a big FA contract because they may not be able afford it. For large market teams – that tend to always be in the playoff races – the marginal value of each extra bit of WAR is higher than for lower tier teams. Thus they are willing to (can afford to) over pay more.
I would contend that the Wells contract was far worse while Toronto was carrying it than it is for LA to carry it.
Contracts that are smaller in absolute terms like Chone Figgins’ 4-year $36M contract is a much bigger bust in relative terms.
And why isn’t Jeter’s contract on the list?
Typical of what passes for ‘journalism’ these days. It is much easier to just throw darts at the easy targets.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.
Jeter isn't on the list because while his contract is bad, it's not as bad (right now) as the others mentioned
Jeter is guaranteed $36 million over the next two years. While he was overpaid this year, he wasn’t awful. Jeter had the 7th highest OBP among shortstops with 400+ PA. Incidentally, Scutaro—one of the better contracts—had the 6th highest OBP (along with average defense). If Jeter flat-out sucks next, things will look different.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Oct 12, 2011 9:17 AM EDT up reply actions
To be fair
SS really isn’t a position of strength nowadays. His .355 OBP may be good for 7th, but it’s not like that’s some outstanding number. His wOBA puts him 10th. I think the point is he’s been declining for a few years now (with a 2009 momentary blip in said decline), and they still gave him a good amount of money.
by South Coast Ghost on Oct 12, 2011 9:54 AM EDT up reply actions
Yes, Jeter is overpaid
But until he flat-out sucks (next year?), it isn’t one of the 10 worst contracts in baseball.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Oct 12, 2011 10:07 AM EDT up reply actions
Exactly
If you say Jeter is on that list, you have to say which of the 10 on that list should come off.
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
OTM | Silver Seven
That's a fair point.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.
Wasn't arguing he was one of the 10 worst Contracts in baseball
Was more arguing it’s just not a good contract.
by South Coast Ghost on Oct 12, 2011 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions
Ya gotta also factor in his alread-bad-and-declining defense.
And at SS you have to figure in the defensive value. He
Based on fangraph evaluations he’s overpaid by around $7M this last year and if he continues to slide he’ll not come remotely close to earning all $51M during the span of this contract. I would be surprised if he earns over half of it.
I only bring that one up because that makes it ‘bad’ by the terms of the article which concentrates on dollars paid now for poor returns now.
The truth is, of course, that Jeter probably has more than earned all that money due to his dollar value as a star entertainer in the Yankees franchise all these years. As I illustrated in another comment here, Jeter provided a ton of value to the Yankees in his first few years for pennies. So I certainly don’t begrudge him for taking the contract and they owe him the money for that.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.
The one good thing
about the collapse is now these things come to light and the Owners are going to be forced to deal with this crap. First step should have been done already, ban any beer or any other alcohol from the clubhouse, only allowing it if the team clinches something. Second, I think the team will look drastically different next year. I could see John Henry willing to eat as much money as possible, if necessary, to get Lackey and, possibly Beckett out of the clubhouse. Youkilis could be gone too.
Why get rid of Beckett?
When he’s good, he’s an ace. So don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater.
Fenway: "An alternate and better universe, disguised as a ballpark." --Thomas Boswell
Because if you read
the article, he seemed to be the leader of the pitching clique. Therefore he’s a problem in the clubhouse and I don’t know if the new manager will be able to change that attitude, maybe a change in location would.. I’m not saying it’s definite, but if the Sox got something very useful to them, it could be worth trading him.
by aubatron2011 on Oct 12, 2011 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions
Beckett's been the leader of the pitching staff
When they’ve imploded and when they’ve reached and won the World Series. I don’t think that means he’s necessarily the instigator of the problems on the pitching staff. And I’d certainly be reluctant to part ways with him unless there’s signs he’s not going to fix things.
Fenway: "An alternate and better universe, disguised as a ballpark." --Thomas Boswell
If he won't change
his attitude for Francona, unless he has some cache in the game which is most likely not going to be the case, he probably wouldn’t change his attitude for the new manager. I’m not saying he will be traded, I’m just saying like you did if his actions won’t change for a manager who he probably won’t respect, then they should try and trade him, for something that could help the team, like maybe a righthanded hitting RF. So why take a risk of this stuff happening again, and probably happening for longer than it did this season?
by aubatron2011 on Oct 12, 2011 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions
You know, last night I had an amazing thought as I went to sleep
That thought was that while next year could be a pain… at least there is a next year. Look at the NBA. Lockout ahoy!
The Red Sox suck, and I am the dirt that was sucked in, I am a dirty.
I'm narcissistic, nihilistic, and arrogant. That's me in a nutshell.
This article pisses me off
there is some information in there that may be interesting, but nothing we’ve really heard before.
Any new shit in this that we haven’t heard before is shit like the absurd TMZ-style character assassination of Francona in there, which pries unnecessarily into things which are not relevant to baseball. This is ugly journalism which makes me ashamed of Boston.
Yep
It’s all smoke, no fire.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Oct 12, 2011 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions
Agreed
And the “journalists” admit that none of this comes out if the team wins, even though much of this was known to them long before this. I have a real problem with the pain killer, pill-popping part on Francona; you don’t essentially call someone a drug addict unless there is more than anectodal evidence. OK, if the person is charged with possession or is admitted to rehab, that’s different that some stooge playing the he said/she said game. If Francona and his wife have legally seperated, divorced or are beginning the process, that is fair game for a public figure, but much of this is piling on.
The writer also goes out of his way to pile in names, including Ellsbury. Why is he required or compelled to add to the “clubhouse culture”, whatever that means? The evidence against Beckett, Lackey and perhaps Lester and Bucholz seems credible, but to pile in Youk, Ellsbury, Ortiz and other because some unnamed source shot his mouth off is wrong. What the hell do I, or any other real fan care if Ellsbury only has one or two friends on the team? Total BS.
A team member doesn't have to be the leader of the clubhouse
They just need to not be a distraction or worse. If somebody’s there, gets his job done, but doesn’t cause a big stir, that’s totally OK in my book.
Fenway: "An alternate and better universe, disguised as a ballpark." --Thomas Boswell
Amen and amen
Boston journalists have earned the reputation as finger pointing ghouls. I’m remembering recent attacks on Ells, Papi, Youk, JD, Paps, Buchholz, Lowrie, Kalish, Reddick, Iglesias, Tek, Salty, etc. Nasty, not objective, minimal research, lack of facts. Just smears. I’ve been ashamed of Bozton writers and, mores, talking heads for years.
by GerryT on Oct 12, 2011 6:10 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
+1
This article made me laugh. Eating chicken and drinking beer? The 2004 team was doing shots in the clubhouse and the press called them “a loose bunch of winners.” If you actually read the article the infractions are all little dumb things-this only matters to people in retrospect-it is post facto justification for a massive failure that was much more complicated and fluky than could be explained by the behavior cited here. The team played better baseball over a 79-31 stretch than ANY Sox team over a comparable stretch in eons. I am sure that they were drinking beer and playing video games during that stretch. I also think there is some flat-out BS in this article. Lester did not look in any worse shape at the end of the year. All Lackey did was gain back the weight he usually has (as Sabathia did) as the season went on. Beckett looked as paunchy as he always does. And I saw these guys on the bench when they were not playing often.
Maybe they ordered different take-out chicken and drank different beer in September
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Oct 12, 2011 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions
SCANDAL
Wade Boggs will tell you how important that chicken dinner is!
NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.
And how important that beer is.
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
OTM | Silver Seven
Thank you, Matt Kory
for being level-headed about this article. It amazes me how many people can go from saying “nope, can’t move Lackey” to “KILL LACKEY AND BECKETT AND LET LESTER GO IN A YEAR OR TWO!!” because of this article—the dollars and cents don’t change because someone’s an asshole.
It’s hard to tell if I’m being rational, because John Lackey is just so damn easy to hate, but the pitching clique thing really smacks of him and he seems like the root of it. I think Beckett and certainly Lester will be fine, but Lackey really seems to be beyond shame, which he definitely needs in spades at this point.
The Francona stuff is just ridiculous, and as I’ve been in a relationship with someone with a pain management issue, the pill thing just really pisses me off, and more than anything reeks of an upper management character assassination.
I hate more than anything the dark mood surrounding this team and everything about it—and I’m in LA. I hope they make Pedroia captain or something.
Lester, Lackey & Becket - OH MY!
Aren’t you leaping to a comfortable conclusion?
Its easy to try to single out Lackey here as “the bad guy” – but Beckett and Lester are grown men. And we have no idea if it wasn’t just a mutual f-up or indeed if one of THOSE two guys was the real Pied Piper who led the others astray. Indeed, many comments that have leaked out about this seem to point the finger at Beckett. Beckett is, by all accounts, the leader of this pitching staff that many of the younger pitchers (Lester included) take all their cues from. We give high marks to Lester’s ‘character’ because he seems like a likable guy and he gets kudos as a cancer survivor. But that doesn’t prove he isn’t capable of bad judgement.
We really have no clue about the true inter-personal dynamics that went on and I don’t think we should be too quick to let Lester or Beckett or anybody off the hook just because we ‘like’ them more. Lackey’s september sucked. But so did Lester & Beckett’s. And we depended on them more so in many ways they were the bigger let-down.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.
Not trying to be unreasonable here
I specifically said that I probably wasn’t being rational about this because it’s so easy to blame Lackey, but I’d hesitate to stick the label of “grown man” on the vast majority of professional athletes, who are typically not the sharpest tools in the shed, and are thus easily led. Not trying to shit all over the team or the sport, but a lot of these guys have never faced much adversity outside of a bad year at high-A ball. For every cerebral Schilling or Mussina, there are several Papelbons, if you catch my drift.
Lester has never been a problem before. I’m not giving him the benefit of the doubt because his surviving cancer and winning the clincher of the World Series blah blah blah is a good story, but because he’s always seemed to be unflappably prepared. For all we know, this problem could have started with Lester or Mike Cameron.
Also, I’ve never found Beckett likable—I want him around because he’s good at pitching. Ditto to Lester, even more. I’m not trying to pin everything on Lackey here, but he has made himself uniquely unlikable in a manner hitherto unheard of on these recently-successful Red Sox teams. Even if this is a pervasive problem, if anyone at all takes the fall (which I don’t think anyone will, for the record), it will be Lackey, and that would send a message.
I do agree that the biggest September letdowns were Beckett and Lester, but to turn your point on its head, that is precisely because Lackey was so bad that it was expected. Coming into September, this was a 95-100 win team despite his performance. While it was Beckett, Lester, and to a lesser extent Bard’s poorly-timed meltdowns that were the hardest blows, let’s not forget that Lackey, had he performed to career norms or even at 2010 levels, could have prevented the end of the collapse, and we would have ended up with a respectable 93-95 wins.
by Debageldond on Oct 12, 2011 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions
" I’d hesitate to stick the label of "grown man" on the vast majority of professional athletes"
LOL – I can’t argue with that.
My point remains, though. Its unfair to single out Lackey as the possible ‘instigator’ here just because his pitching performance sucked.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.
Point well taken
And trust me, I totally totally get what you’re saying and why, but I just see too much correlation between Lackey’s existing here and the clique starting. Beckett’s been here since 2006, and while his performance has been up and down, nothing like this has happened before. Lester as well. This little clique/behavior started in late 2010. Correlation, of course, is not causation, so we really don’t/can’t know, but if I had to put my money on it, Lackey seems to be the catalyst that awakened some sort of latent bad behavior in Beckett, and Lester was along for the ride.
I also admit that you’re right—it IS incredibly easy to put this on Lackey, because there’s already absolutely nothing to like about him. I still feel like Beckett is responsible for the bulk of this… whatever this is, but something about Lackey feels like the source. If we find out he is, I think he might be the antichrist.
Someone's about to come in with a correlation =/= causation photo.
Just thought I’d warn ya.
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
OTM | Silver Seven
Is it okay...
… if I just straight up blame Lackey for all this because I don’t like him? I mean, apparently ’tis the season for baseless pandering recriminations associated with the Red Sox.
Tampa Bay Rays Championships: Still Zero
"Playoffs?!? Don't talk about playoffs! Are you kidding me? I just hope we can win a game!"
- Jim Mora, seeing through space and time to describe the 2011 Boston Red Sox
by nuthinboutnuthin on Oct 12, 2011 11:09 PM EDT up reply actions
absolutely
plus, I heard from an unnamed source in the clubhouse that he tortures puppies for fun in between innings while chugging Jager straight from the bottle and taking part in a pie eating contest.
He hasn't come forward to deny it...
… so it must be true.
Tampa Bay Rays Championships: Still Zero
"Playoffs?!? Don't talk about playoffs! Are you kidding me? I just hope we can win a game!"
- Jim Mora, seeing through space and time to describe the 2011 Boston Red Sox
by nuthinboutnuthin on Oct 13, 2011 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Now where the heck is my pitchfork and bucket of tar ....
NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.
Sponichi?
Does he pitch? Does he drink beer?
Tampa Bay Rays Championships: Still Zero
"Playoffs?!? Don't talk about playoffs! Are you kidding me? I just hope we can win a game!"
- Jim Mora, seeing through space and time to describe the 2011 Boston Red Sox
by nuthinboutnuthin on Oct 12, 2011 11:05 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Simple team rules
How about simply requiring players to be on the bench during the games? Sure, go to the clubhouse if you need to use the bathroom, get treatment of a number of other good reasons, but staying in the clubhouse to drink beer, slam fast food and play video games is not OK.
But you say these rules can’t be enforced with mulit-million guaranteed contract players? Sure they can. Beer and food is only available after the last out of a game. Take out the television if that is too much of a distraction. If a player violates the rule, he is warned. A second violation results in a cancellation of a single after game buffet for the team. A thrid results in a suspension.
Any questions?
Bottom Line...
They’re all grown men and they all had a responsibility to do their jobs and put in all effort and/or work that needed to get done. Those players who didn’t put their work in were all responsible for the collapsed season.
As for the supposed crap in regards to Francona, I really really don’t think this is as big a deal as it should be. The real “curse” of the Boston Red Sox comes out with these supposed facts because it seems that management has always been of the attitude of “don’t let the door hit you on the way out.” This has been an issue for years and years, even prior to this ownership group.
"Common sense is quite rare." - Voltaire
The Artist Formerly Known as PacoL250
Resident Psychologist and Tech Support at Over the Monster: SB Nation's Resident Red Sox Web Site
I don't think that's specific to Red Sox management
I think that “don’t let the door hit ya” attitude is more of the Boston media.
The same thing happens with every high profile player/coach/whatever who leaves, no matter on what true terms they may be leaving. The press here just loves to pile on with a smear-ya-later campaign so long as their target is headed for other pastures.
We saw it before with Nomar, Richard Seymour, Randy Moss, etc., etc. Yes, in some cases the individual was indeed flawed and deserving of SOME criticism. But in all cases, the magnitude of the piling on with negative crap has been unwarranted by reality.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.
Not All Media Right Now
At least on WEEI, they’re disgusted that the info about Tito has come out…if any of that is true even.
"Common sense is quite rare." - Voltaire
The Artist Formerly Known as PacoL250
Resident Psychologist and Tech Support at Over the Monster: SB Nation's Resident Red Sox Web Site
If someone there is giving Tito a break, that's just situational
various talking heads at WEEI have more than eagerly participated in these same sorts of feeding frenzies with other players in the past.
Several of them there were like rabid dogs over Moss. And Mo Vaughn too.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.
Oh True
Not giving anybody in the media pass (and I never do), but that was just situational as I was listening to it here at work.
"Common sense is quite rare." - Voltaire
The Artist Formerly Known as PacoL250
Resident Psychologist and Tech Support at Over the Monster: SB Nation's Resident Red Sox Web Site
Lucchino
Does anybody else here smell Lucchino in any of this? He as been willing to publically trash team personnell (see Nomar) on their way out of town, why not now?
Yep
I’d be surprised if he wasn’t connected to the uncomfortable-feeling Tito stuff and the line about Crawford.
by Debageldond on Oct 12, 2011 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions
YES
I had the exact same thought. This reeks of Lucchino, just like the hit piece on Epstein that leaked back in the 2005 offseason. (I think Shaughnessy wrote that one – in any event the circumstances were described in “Feeding the Monster.”)
Monster carcass in Fens this morning, bat splinters on burst stuffing. This team is afraid of me. I have seen its true face. The players are inveterate quitters and the pitchers are full of fail, and when the playoffs are within reach, they will all choke. The accumulated filth of all their beer and clubhouse rivalries will foam up about their waists, and all the fat Texans and horrid relievers will look up and shout, "Save us!"... and I'll look down and whisper, "NO."
by 0157H7 on Oct 12, 2011 9:29 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
rec'd for sig
Tampa Bay Rays Championships: Still Zero
"Playoffs?!? Don't talk about playoffs! Are you kidding me? I just hope we can win a game!"
- Jim Mora, seeing through space and time to describe the 2011 Boston Red Sox
by nuthinboutnuthin on Oct 13, 2011 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions
WOW.
Hell yes.
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
OTM | Silver Seven
ditto that!
NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.
Was waiting for someone to notice that.
Monster carcass in Fens this morning, bat splinters on burst stuffing. This team is afraid of me. I have seen its true face. The players are inveterate quitters and the pitchers are full of fail, and when the playoffs are within reach, they will all choke. The accumulated filth of all their beer and clubhouse rivalries will foam up about their waists, and all the fat Texans and horrid relievers will look up and shout, "Save us!"... and I'll look down and whisper, "NO."
I'm not trying to spread a rumor
but does anybody now think the team started to tune out Tito after Schilling left? Francona was the main reason why Schilling agreed to come here, and after he left there might not have been the advocate in the clubhouse for Tito.
Not outside the realm of possibility, I suppose.
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
OTM | Silver Seven
Look at the results of the team after he
left, one year they get swept out of the playoffs and the next two years they fail to make the playoffs. Last Year was derailed by injuries, which is a sign of being out of shape, and this year was a result of injuries and underperformances. Schilling was a great pitcher, but he was only one guy. But if he believed in the manager and saw some of the guys slacking off he could gavce gotten on their asses so the manager wouldn’t have to.
by aubatron2011 on Oct 12, 2011 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Great article by Hohler
Sometimes the truth hurts.
Are we 100% sure that Ben Cherington is the new GM going forward?
I kinda want Al Avila.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
DFA Rev Halofan, The New York Yankees, The Tampa Bay Blue Seats, Carl Crawford, John Lackey, Darnell McDonald, Curt Young, Dave Magadan, Tim Bogar, Buck Showalter, Dan Johnson, Hawk Harrelson, Jonah Keri, Murray Chass, Mark Sanchez, Micheal Vick, Jared Allen, Jerry Jones, Al Davis, Rex Ryan, Rob Ryan, Trent Dilfer, Heath Evans, Cris Carter, Vuvuzelas, The Chicken Dance, Lady Gaga, Justin Bieber, Stephanie Meyer, and the entire fucking city of Philadelphia.
Even if he doesn't
we’re talking about a guy who has friends entrenched in the Dominican. Al Avila brought Pedro, among others, to the Bigs.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
DFA Rev Halofan, The New York Yankees, The Tampa Bay Blue Seats, Carl Crawford, John Lackey, Darnell McDonald, Curt Young, Dave Magadan, Tim Bogar, Buck Showalter, Dan Johnson, Hawk Harrelson, Jonah Keri, Murray Chass, Mark Sanchez, Micheal Vick, Jared Allen, Jerry Jones, Al Davis, Rex Ryan, Rob Ryan, Trent Dilfer, Heath Evans, Cris Carter, Vuvuzelas, The Chicken Dance, Lady Gaga, Justin Bieber, Stephanie Meyer, and the entire fucking city of Philadelphia.
by TheLoneDavid on Oct 12, 2011 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions
It sounds like they've kicked the tires on Friedman
Olney said on ESPNRadio that they have checked on “existing GM’s.” That’s gotta be Friedman, where they were probably told to take a hike. Maybe Avila is on that list as well.
I like Allard Baird, worth comparing to Cherrington at least. Hoyer/Byrnes/McLeod…..if you’re going to pick a Theo disciple, may as well take the one you’ve got in house already.
Alex Speier on Cherington.
I gotta go 'cause I'm probably definitely gonna nod out again.
by Drugs Delaney on Oct 12, 2011 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions
The FO
actions of including him in every meeting and making sure people know he was at those meetings whenever they talked about those meetings, indicates it’s every the greatest smoke screen of all time (I kid), or that it’s pretty much a lock that Cherington slides to the big chair. The manager search is already on hold because of this whole Theo situation and I don’t think they want to re-start the process by bringing in a new guy with a completely different list of candidates.
by aubatron2011 on Oct 12, 2011 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Someone suggested trading Beckett
not a bad idea. his value is probably higher right now than it ever will be again. Might as well get some value for an aging ace. plus we need some fresh faces
He does have 10-5 rights after this year
I wonder, now that he’s been “named” as a troublemaker in the clubhouse, how that would affect his desire to be traded.
by South Coast Ghost on Oct 12, 2011 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions
So the take-home message I'm getting...
… is essentially a bunch of stuff happened that no one would care about if we’d won two more games. Sounds important.
Tampa Bay Rays Championships: Still Zero
"Playoffs?!? Don't talk about playoffs! Are you kidding me? I just hope we can win a game!"
- Jim Mora, seeing through space and time to describe the 2011 Boston Red Sox
by nuthinboutnuthin on Oct 12, 2011 6:24 PM EDT reply actions
Interesting Globe Article
Shocked and saddened to hear that Lester, Varitek, and Youkilis- some of my favorite Sox were part of the problem.
Glad to hear though that Pedroia (hands down my favorite player) gives a shit. Now, put the (figurative) “C” on his chest and let him go to work. It really needs to be Pedey’s team now.
Thanks Tito & Theo for 04 and 07.
I'm the most dissappointed in Lester
I remember clearly Tito saying how much Jon was “like a son to” him.
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
From Grantland.com today:
“I recognize that I probably put too much stock in chemistry and not enough in biology and physics. But John Lackey has more friends in that clubhouse than Jacoby Ellsbury does. I don’t care which of the sciences you believe in: That’s a bad sign.”
Oh give me a break. I need to rant.
Says who? Chris Jones?
The next god-like authority to assert just what is or isn’t good in team ‘chemistry’?
I’m sorry. I’m just sick of all these self-righteous, holier-than-though armchair f’ing psycho-analysts making stupid, insipid proclamations about a situation they really don’t know anything about more than tiny scraps of heresay and supposition. That quote sounds oh-so-witty and cleverly worded, but it means absolute crap shit nothing because the fundamental fact is that Jones doesn’t really know anything about what the internal dynamics of the team were. None of us outsiders do.
I read that grantland article ( here is the link ) and in this debate Jones sounds like an a-hole who keeps stretching and reaching, trying to rationalize his glee as he roles in the dirt while at the same time deflecting criticism of his view with a sprinkling of facetious self-deprecations.
Yes, this rant isn’t targeted specifically on Jones, but rather those like him who seem to revel in this feeding frenzy of insulting innuendo and baseless negative conjecture.
My ire gets fired up on a particular quote out of the Hohler article:
This article is based on a series of interviews the Globe conducted with individuals familiar with the Sox operation at all levels. Most requested anonymity out of concern for their jobs or potential damage to their relationships in the organization. Others refused to comment or did not respond to interview requests.
The absolute irony of the statement in bold kills me. The self-serving righteousness of protecting the jobs and relationships of these ‘anonymous sources’ while destroying the reputations of others is pathetic and absurd.
Gawd, I wish the NBA would resume so we’d have something else to talk about between Pats and Bruins games!
Rant off.
(Sorry, j-ace, this isn’t targeted at you. You were just the messenger here.)
NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.
Yeah with no sources named for pretty much any of his negative statements
this is nothing short of McCarthyism and making allegations based on very unusual assumptions.
Umm...
Anonymous sources have been an important part of a free press probably since its inception.
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
OTM | Silver Seven
yes but I have no faith in an article
where every source saying something negative isn’t even mentioned. It would lend it more credibility even if he said an unnamed player or something like that. For most of the information here, I could be a source.
Well, all journalists would prefer to put folks named and on the record
but it’s often simply not possible. So, if you are able to find sources of information that are willing to share that information, but still want to protect their livelihoods by going unnamed…should you just not report it?
If you were in that situation, would you want your name used? Do you think that would be a positive in the long term?
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
OTM | Silver Seven
I have no problem with anonymous reporting
and I understand fully why it happens. I just think that if a journalist is going to report the kinds of things in that article, they should at least give us a decent idea of what position their sources are in to know these kinds of things. If there were reports according to “multiple players” or to “members of the coaching staff” or “front office personnel” then I would probably lend some credence to what he’s saying.
But when everything is credited to “multiple reports” or to “all accounts,” it makes me think the sources are people like Aramark hot dog vendor #30475 and some guy named Bob that likes to call WEEI.
Most importantly, there are a lot of statements in there about things like how Youk and Ellsbury are feeling about certain things, and I just do not believe that they confided their personal feelings with Mr. Hohler.
I understand what you're saying
but in many cases using terms like “players” or “members of the coaching staff” narrows down the search enough to be akin to naming the person. I can see why they wouldn’t want to.
That said, I am fully behind the inference of specific players’ feelings and so forth. Unless Youk says “I still am pissed at that little Ellsbury fart”, I don’t buy it. Besides, Youkilis fully explained his feelings on that matter and did not back off on the things that were important to him.
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
OTM | Silver Seven
EDIT:
That said, I am fully behind the inference of specific players’ feelings and so forth being complete bunk.
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
OTM | Silver Seven
I agree with your discussion of the important of anonymous sources...
… but I also agree with wolf’s lack of faith in the article – which, for me personally, stems from a lack of faith in sports “journalists” in general as the traditionally weakest members of a decaying fourth estate.
So, uh, cookies for everyone (with my mediator’s fee taken off the top)? Someone call TLD.
Tampa Bay Rays Championships: Still Zero
"Playoffs?!? Don't talk about playoffs! Are you kidding me? I just hope we can win a game!"
- Jim Mora, seeing through space and time to describe the 2011 Boston Red Sox
by nuthinboutnuthin on Oct 13, 2011 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh, and...
… can we dispense with the notion that posting an exchange of emails is some form of legitimate latter-day epistolary prose? It’s just laziness – and this from a person who has perfected minimum effort for maximum reward.
Tampa Bay Rays Championships: Still Zero
"Playoffs?!? Don't talk about playoffs! Are you kidding me? I just hope we can win a game!"
- Jim Mora, seeing through space and time to describe the 2011 Boston Red Sox
by nuthinboutnuthin on Oct 13, 2011 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't do cookies until at least the winter meetings.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
DFA Rev Halofan, The New York Yankees, The Tampa Bay Blue Seats, Carl Crawford, John Lackey, Darnell McDonald, Curt Young, Dave Magadan, Tim Bogar, Buck Showalter, Dan Johnson, Hawk Harrelson, Jonah Keri, Murray Chass, Mark Sanchez, Micheal Vick, Jared Allen, Jerry Jones, Al Davis, Rex Ryan, Rob Ryan, Trent Dilfer, Heath Evans, Cris Carter, Vuvuzelas, The Chicken Dance, Lady Gaga, Justin Bieber, Stephanie Meyer, and the entire fucking city of Philadelphia.
by TheLoneDavid on Oct 13, 2011 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Fried Chicken?
Tampa Bay Rays Championships: Still Zero
"Playoffs?!? Don't talk about playoffs! Are you kidding me? I just hope we can win a game!"
- Jim Mora, seeing through space and time to describe the 2011 Boston Red Sox
by nuthinboutnuthin on Oct 13, 2011 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions
I've been making Victory Bacon for the Lions and Tigers.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
DFA Rev Halofan, The New York Yankees, The Tampa Bay Blue Seats, Carl Crawford, John Lackey, Darnell McDonald, Curt Young, Dave Magadan, Tim Bogar, Buck Showalter, Dan Johnson, Hawk Harrelson, Jonah Keri, Murray Chass, Mark Sanchez, Micheal Vick, Jared Allen, Jerry Jones, Al Davis, Rex Ryan, Rob Ryan, Trent Dilfer, Heath Evans, Cris Carter, Vuvuzelas, The Chicken Dance, Lady Gaga, Justin Bieber, Stephanie Meyer, and the entire fucking city of Philadelphia.
by TheLoneDavid on Oct 13, 2011 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions
But not the Bears?
Oh My.
Tampa Bay Rays Championships: Still Zero
"Playoffs?!? Don't talk about playoffs! Are you kidding me? I just hope we can win a game!"
- Jim Mora, seeing through space and time to describe the 2011 Boston Red Sox
by nuthinboutnuthin on Oct 13, 2011 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Goddammit
this is making me hungry.
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
OTM | Silver Seven
I agree that the chemistry thing is way overblown
And these allegations/reports whatever you want to call them do nothing to explain the collapse, or have any real value aside from gossip to fuel the media machine throughout the winter (and aside from exposing the team as being pretty Bush league in its treatment of Tito)
I just thought hey, when you think about it, it IS pretty weird that Lackey (your incompetent coworker) has more friends than Jacoby Ellsbury (your competent coworker) isn’t it?
Sabremetric question:
Would we get more value from Lackey by:
- Trading him for pennies on the dollar;
- Playing him; or
- Causing him to have an unfortunate … let’s say “accident” … as a warning to others?
See, you need to think outside the box
Tampa Bay Rays Championships: Still Zero
"Playoffs?!? Don't talk about playoffs! Are you kidding me? I just hope we can win a game!"
- Jim Mora, seeing through space and time to describe the 2011 Boston Red Sox
by nuthinboutnuthin on Oct 13, 2011 12:13 PM EDT reply actions
Bullet point #3
is where the bears come in.
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
OTM | Silver Seven
THIS JUST IN!
While their team just went through an epic collapse of historic proportions, several notable OTM fans were seen frying up a pan of bacon – clearly a sign that they JUST DIDN"T CARE!!!!
In other news, chewing tobacco and chewing gum will be banned from all MLB clubhouses as the use of these products when by players who should instead have their eyes glued firmly on the field is considered a serious character flaw.
Potty breaks are said to be under negotiation for ban but the players union, typical of it’s don’t-give-a-shit-about-the-fan attitude is resisting.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.
Tim McCarver used to take a dump
in the second inning of every game.
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
OTM | Silver Seven

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