What Kind Of Compensation Can Boston Expect For Theo?
This isn't a sly announcement to tell you that Theo Epstein is on his way to Chicago, but, were the Red Sox to give him permission to speak -- something that is highly likely given the Cubs asked -- there would be compensation involved if he agreed to a deal. Now, it's easy to say, "The Cubs need to hand over their top prospects," or, "Send Starlin Castro back to Boston, and we're good," or, "Extort the Cubs for everything they are worth!" but reality is a little different from that.
The thing is, Epstein would be taking over the roster that is giving away players, prospects, or money for his services. The Red Sox won't be able to gut the Cubs, as much as we might want their shiniest baubles, in exchange for Theo, as the chances Epstein would want to run a team without its most promising parts are, well, less than if the roster were to still have them. The Red Sox need to get something in exchange for Theo, though, so what fits the bill?
Prospects: This is an area where the Cubs can deal from in one sense because their prospects aren't that great. On the other hand, Epstein, who will essentially be trading for himself, might not want to give up what little upside he has in the system before his flight even lands. Keith Law's midseason top 50 prospects list, posted in July, didn't have a single Cub on it, and neither did Kevin Goldstein's list. There were two-and-a-half-months of minor league baseball played after those were published, but none of their major prospects did much to give you the idea they would crack the next top 50 from those two.
Josh Vitters hit .283/.322/.448 on the season at Double-A as a 21-year-old, but the Red Sox already have a third baseman with plate discipline issues in their system, and Will Middlebrooks has (1) shown more power and (2) is one of the best defenders at the hot corner in the minors, whereas Vitters is considered good enough to stick at third. That's not to say they wouldn't take him in a trade, but it's hard to see him being considered as a piece, especially since Vitters, assuming his development continues, is the likely replacement for Aramis Ramirez at third in much the same way Middlebrooks is the eventual Kevin Youkilis replacement in Boston.
Brett Jackson is the intriguing name, as he doesn't have Vitters' ceiling, but is still a five-tool player who has performed admirably in the minors. The 22-year-old started out slow at Double-A, hitting .256/.373/.443 in 246 plate appearances, but picked things up in Triple-A, where he hit .297/.388/.551. Of course, that latter performance was in the PCL, where the average hitter put up a line of .286/.358/.448, but it's still impressive work for a player of his age at that level.
The Cubs might be loathe to give up this prospect, but Boston could use the outfield depth with J.D. Drew departing, Ryan Kalish losing all of 2011 to injury after a 2010 that told us he wasn't quite ready for the majors yet, and Josh Reddick bouncing back-and-forth between being the answer and a question. Problem is, as my Baseball Nation colleague and Bleed Cubbie Blue czar Al Yellon points out to me, Jackson likely won't go anywhere for the exact reasons that Boston would want him. So, you'll just have to pine for him from afar.
The last name worth inquiring about is Andrew Cashner, who to this point has thrown just 65 innings in the majors as a reliever, but is actually a starting prospect. The 24-year-old has just 23 innings at Triple-A on his resume, but he's struck out 7.4 batters per nine at the level, and has pitched well at Double-A (89 strikeouts against 40 walks in 97 innings). The limited innings in his professional career are partially due to his being a former closer that the Cubs slowly brought along.
Whether he's a starter or a reliever, Boston could use him. And while his name isn't as sexy as, say, Brett Jackson, that's more likely the kind of player the Red Sox would get in exchange for Theo talking to Chicago (though, given Cashner's limited prospect-dom compared to the other two names, he might come with someone else attached, too).
Package Deal: Maybe we've been thinking about this the wrong way. Maybe the Red Sox shouldn't be taking a player back, but should be getting all BoGo on the Cubs and sending along a contract or a player they would like to be rid of. Sure, Epstein might not want to have someone tag along if they aren't performing well, but there are legitimate reasons to consider it for both sides.
Of course, I'm talking about John Lackey and the remaining three years and $48 million on his deal. While removing him from Boston would mean they need to acquire another starter for 2012 -- and in a year where they are already missing a fifth hurler -- it would also free up the money to do something like acquire Wandy Rodriguez and his contract from the Astros, should the free agent market prove unsatisfactory. Lackey just finished putting up the worst season in Red Sox history by ERA+ and ERA, so "missing" him might be an odd way of thinking about it, too.
The Cubs' rotation is currently in even worse shape than Boston's, and the switch to the NL Central could do a lot of good for Lackey. While Matt Garza is a better pitcher than Lackey, he went from averaging 7.1 strikeouts and 3.1 walks per nine in the AL East for the Rays to striking out a batter per inning for the Cubs. Were Lackey to make the switch out of the AL East, he still wouldn't be worth his contract -- without a move to a park with stronger-than-Earth gravity, he never will be -- but he would likely look more like a three or a four, rather than someone who gets decimated in half of their appearances.
Is that realistic? Maybe not. But this isn't a situation with a whole lot of precedent behind it, so new ground needs to be broken. We still have to wait-and-see if this is even something that needs to be discussed, but these are my thoughts on the matter -- what do you think, in terms of realistic transactions, Theo should be worth in a trade with the Cubs?
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There's no way the Cubs would send Andrew Cashner for Theo.
Not likely Josh Vitters, either. It’d be someone from the lower levels, if that.
And we’re not taking John Lackey, either. You can’t get rid of him that easily.
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We were going to send Youkilis for Beane
I see no reason to believe we shouldn’t receive equal compensation.
Also, glad to have you around Marc, sincerely.
my understanding was
he changed his mind before they actually worked out the compensation, but DePodesta had asked for Youkilis and Beane said something along the lines of “the system is barren, you can’t leave me with nothing.” So I don’t think Youk was going to happen.
This is true
But what does this mean, in reality? What is equal compensation to a 2002 Youkilis who at the time was admittedly tearing it up in Class A ball (I believe), but still was an unknown quantity that hadn’t been deemed the “Greek God of Walks”. He was on the radar of DePodesta and Beane before anyone else, but 2002 Youkilis (trade compensatiton wise) is not equal to the Youkilis trade value we know.
I also proclaim to know very little about the Cubs farm system, so I’m not sure who the lower level (Class A ball) prospects are.
by The Name is Dalton on Oct 11, 2011 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions
Thank you for being more reasonable about this
than everyone else, who are mainly saying things like “give us Castro for him!” Which is just silly.
I think they best way around may involve sending Lackey, but certainly not his entire salary (think about it, is Theo really worth $45.75 million to them?). Maybe part of a more complex trade involving players going both ways. I would think value-wise, it would be something closer to swapping Lackey and Theo in exchange for Zambrano (though I wouldn’t be in favor of that, and I’m not sure I would be if I were a Cub fan either).
Honestly, I don’t really know. Is there even precedent for it at all? It seems to me like most manager deals end up being a trade involving some level of players going both ways, just the team sending the manager gets the better player value in the deal. My guess, is that because they’re in position to do so, the Red Sox take a hard line with what they want, and the Cubs end up overpaying by a bit because they need a GM now and appear to want Theo, but I’m not sure if one of those guys is likely.
Lackey isn't a 100% lost cause
Just moving from the Boston meatgrinder, and the AL Beast, to the relatvely genteel Chicago media plus NL Central could revive his career.
no he's not a completely lost cause
but lost enough that I’m quite sure they wouldn’t take on that whole contract. Even when we signed him, those that liked the signing (or at least didn’t dislike it, as I’m not sure anyone was thrilled about that one, per se) admitted that the last 2-3 years he’d likely be declining from the good pitcher we thought we were getting.
Probably a low level prospect or two.
And not a huge name, to be honest. Theo has a year left on his contract.
Giving up high level, MLB ready players or taking on bad contracts would be counter-productive to what they would want Theo to do in the long term there. If he isn’t around in 2012, it’s probably not a huge deal for them to go another year without a championship.
by The Name is Dalton on Oct 11, 2011 10:25 AM EDT reply actions
That's true about him
not being around in 2012 but when the Owner basically says Theo’s the #1 target, and they have to settle for somebody else, the fanbase would be really upset, because they believe Theo can lead them to a championship, maybe not next year but they’ll do it eventually.
by aubatron2011 on Oct 11, 2011 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions
Plus
What do you do in 2012? Hire someone who knows they’ll be fired or demoted in a year?
Twitter: @Marc_Normandin
by Marc Normandin on Oct 11, 2011 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't think finding or appointing an Interim GM
Will be so hard as to necessitate giving up a MLB-ready prospect for an extra year of Theo. Any number of young guys in front office management across baseball would jump at a chance to get their names even if only for a year with the chance of getting higher on the list when the next GM position is open.
Maybe as Bean Tooth mentions below…a Randy Winn type player who will be nothing spectacular. But (and I know you mentioned this as being unlikely) a Brett Jackson type seems unlikely. Taking on a bad contract would be silly in my opinion.
by The Name is Dalton on Oct 11, 2011 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions
But the thing to determine
Is whether or not having that extra year of Theo — and everything that comes with it, from front office personnel to draft picks in the 2012 draft — is worth less or more than what you would give up to get him a year earlier.
Twitter: @Marc_Normandin
by Marc Normandin on Oct 11, 2011 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions
This will certainly factor in some.
To be honest, one of the deciding factors for Cubs management will be to ask Theo what his opinion is of signing Pujols or Fielder. There is a sense of urgency because both of those guys will have long term contracts 6 months from now.
They’ll have something like $25 million off of payroll (assuming they sign A-Ram to longer), and around $40 million off next year when Byrd, Zambrano and Dempster are gone. It’s a lot of money to have freed up for a lot of holes to fill.
by The Name is Dalton on Oct 11, 2011 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Also
what if in that year, Theo changes his mind? What if the Red Sox change their mind and offer him a huge deal to stay in Boston? What if Theo hits the open market and another team makes a play for his services? These are questions the Cubs can avoid by bringing in Theo this off season.
There is a parallel here to the Red Sox acquisition of Adrian Gonzalez. Gonzalez’s deal was up in a year and the Red Sox considered waiting until he became a free agent, but ultimately decided the cost of the prospects was worth it for the extra year of Gonzalez and the certainty that they would be the only ones to negotiate with him (and likely sign him) during that year.
Writer at Over The Monster. Follow me on Twitter! It'll be super awesome fun! @mattymatty2000
by Matthew Kory on Oct 11, 2011 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah sure,
plenty of people would be happy to work as interim GM for a big club for a year, especially with the world knowing that if they get fired after the season, it was already planned. Nice notch on the resume.
Agreed
It is working in one of the biggest sports markets with a ton of exposure but with very little expectations or pressure.
by The Name is Dalton on Oct 11, 2011 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions
The name of the franchise might
look good on his resume, but if the team sucks, and he tried to get another GM job, it probably wouldn’t work. Theo going to the Cubs would be a long term thing. The world is so much more of a “What have you done for me lately?” world, and there would be turnover on the Cubs roster, no matter who the GM is, but if they are worse than they were last year because of the interim GM decisions, that wouldn’t make him/her look to good. Whereas if they traded for Theo, and gave up a big player, then they could say it was all part of a process, because Theo’s not going anywhere for a long time, so to step back for a year, if they believe it would make them go forward in the future it might be worth it.
by aubatron2011 on Oct 11, 2011 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions
or alternatively, if he's there for a year,
gets fired, and then Theo comes and can manage to bring the world series, he could take partial credit. I think there would be tons of people happy to take that interim GM job. There’s just not many of those jobs out there, and there’s tons of people eager to prove what they can do.
"if the team sucks"
The team sucked this year. It has sucked. They were 71-91 and had different clubhouse problems. The Cubs continuing their sucking trend wouldn’t prevent someone from getting a job elsewhere considering the state of that franchise…I strongly disagree that it “probably wouldn’t work” if an interim GM tried to get another GM position later on based on how the Cubs perform in 2012.
Drafting and player development take longer to evaluate in baseball, so they more or less would be judged on trades, and free agent signings (player resignings). IF (A big IF) there is an interim guy they are probably not going to have free reign with any big FA or Trades (minor ones yes).
They can say, “It’s part of a process” regardless of if Theo is there or not. If Theo is hired a year from now an the interim guy let go, they won’t even HAVE to say it because everyone will know that this was the expected plan the whole time.
by The Name is Dalton on Oct 11, 2011 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions
They sucked this year
but they could be worse next year, regardless of who’s there too. And another thing that I don’t think people are taking into consideration is the fact that Mike Quade, the manager of the Cubs, is probably going to be out as manager, so to hire an Interim GM, they would have to keep Quade because the Interim GM wouldn’t have free reign to hire a new manager. So giving up something that would hurt now for Theo so he can mold the organization how he wants to instead of playing the switching GM and Manager game next year might be appealing to the Cubs ownership.
by aubatron2011 on Oct 11, 2011 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions
So to circle back to the question at hand.
Pretend you are Theo. You are going to be asked to come into an organzation swamped with bad contracts, with relatively mediocre farm system with the expectation of breaking the curse. Who is your limit on who you give up. Out of curiosity.
They’ll either play the swap Manager/GM game now or next year so that really just depends on their urgency. Which we really have no way of knowing, so speculating on how urgent it is for them is hard for us to do. You can make the argument that they want to do it sooner to avoid possibly losing Theo to another team, or you can make the argument that he wants to wait until next year so he’ll have another $40 million in payroll to work with after 2012.
by The Name is Dalton on Oct 11, 2011 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions
If I'm Theo,
my limit would be a bad contract (Zambrano, or Soriano) or a role player, with prospects. But I could see a scenario where ownership wants him bad enough, which has been reported and confirmed that he is by far their top choice, pushes a package that might make it hurt a little now, but ultimately works for in the long term.
by aubatron2011 on Oct 11, 2011 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Hopefully if it happens you're right
And they do push him to give up a good enough package for him
by The Name is Dalton on Oct 11, 2011 8:26 PM EDT up reply actions
don't expect much
Not apples-for-apples, but if I recall correctly, when the Mariners traded Lou Pinella to Tampa they got Randy Winn in return. He was a nice player back then, but no game changer. If the Cubs deal happened, the Sox could at best expect a serviceable bottom-of-the-order type, if that.
I would take
a couple of first round draft picks. It would be great to get rid of Lackey, but I doubt that is going to happen.
Sadly the new CBA hasn't been negotiated yet
But Boston and Chicago could work something out behind the scenes from a PTBNL standpoint to get future draft picks into Boston as players.
Twitter: @Marc_Normandin
by Marc Normandin on Oct 11, 2011 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions
hm, interesting
they both have a good idea of what will be changing when the new CBA (reportedly it has almost completely been negotiated, and they are hoping to announce it during or near the WS). Perhaps they have decided to do something like that, and that’s why no announcements have come? Of course, there’s nothing but speculation there, but it would explain the somewhat odd quiet of information at a time when you would think both teams would be eager to get their situations resolved.
compensation
Would it not be enough just to be rid of Theo. If we are fortunate enough to get some conpensation Garza would be ideal. Proven top of the rotation guy and has pitched in the AL east previously with the Rays with a good deal of success. Chicago most likely not letting him gothey held on to him at the trade dead line in 2011. Pitching prospects would be another pretty ideal situation for Boston as young pitchers are hard to find and Boston seems to do better developing young arms than they do on the free agency market. That being said I think Chicago is crazy to give up talent to talk to Theo. Either way Boston needs new blood. Tito was the scape goat, I believe the cancer developed from the GM office and spread from there. With out removing it at the source the disease will continue to spread.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
DFA Rev Halofan, The New York Yankees, The Tampa Bay Blue Seats, Carl Crawford, John Lackey, Darnell McDonald, Curt Young, Dave Magadan, Tim Bogar, Buck Showalter, Dan Johnson, Hawk Harrelson, Jonah Keri, Murray Chass, Mark Sanchez, Micheal Vick, Jared Allen, Jerry Jones, Al Davis, Rex Ryan, Rob Ryan, Trent Dilfer, Heath Evans, Cris Carter, Vuvuzelas, The Chicken Dance, Lady Gaga, Justin Bieber, Stephanie Meyer, and the entire fucking city of Philadelphia.
by TheLoneDavid on Oct 11, 2011 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Don't laugh, TheLoneDavid
the cancer is spreading!!!
I doubt Cashner would be involved.
He was shooting up prospects charts the first two months of 2010, and would have been a sure-fire top-50 prospect had they left him in AAA. He can touch 100 and has a nasty slider, and still has number two SP potential if his shoulder doesn’t hold him back. I don’t think the Cubs are going to trade the one young, big-upside pitcher the organization has above A ball.
More likely trade pieces may be:
1) DJ Lemahieu(2B/3B, reached MLB this year, good contact hitter but poor walk skills and questionable power).
2) Rafael Dolis/Chris Carpenter(young RPs that each pitched briefly in the bigs this year. Both can touch 100 and may have closer/set-up potential, but have control problems flare up).
3) Jae Hoon-Ha (CF split time at high-A/AA this year, Plays excellent defense with a cannon arm and good contact skills. Opinions vary on his power, and can’t draw a walk to save his life, but he’s only 21 next year and is a good canidate to break out at AA/AAA).
4) Trey McNutt( SP, spent season at AA. Was bothered much of the season by nagging blister and rib injury problems, which caused struggles after a monster 2010 season. Still has 2-3 SP potential and is probably still the top pitching prospect in the system.
The lower levels of the Cubs system has tons of high upside bats and arms as well that could be part of a trade. If Epstein does go to the Cubs, I would guess a trade would include both a raw, high upside talent from the lower levels packaged along with a player or two that are close to ML ready but with more limited upside, such as the names above.
Here's a trade idea
Theo, Lacking and Craw-foot for Castro and Zambrano.
Never gonna happen
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
DFA Rev Halofan, The New York Yankees, The Tampa Bay Blue Seats, Carl Crawford, John Lackey, Darnell McDonald, Curt Young, Dave Magadan, Tim Bogar, Buck Showalter, Dan Johnson, Hawk Harrelson, Jonah Keri, Murray Chass, Mark Sanchez, Micheal Vick, Jared Allen, Jerry Jones, Al Davis, Rex Ryan, Rob Ryan, Trent Dilfer, Heath Evans, Cris Carter, Vuvuzelas, The Chicken Dance, Lady Gaga, Justin Bieber, Stephanie Meyer, and the entire fucking city of Philadelphia.
by TheLoneDavid on Oct 11, 2011 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions
here's another good offseason suggestion
let’s sign Albert Pujols to DH on a 1 year $1 million deal, with team options at $1 million for the next 12 years.
why would the Red Sox want that deal?
Lackey is a wash with Zambrano, they both suck and both are expensive.
Castro v. CC? A guy who is in the All Star game almost every season, 50+ SB, 300 hitter v. some young guy who is probably the same as Iglesias.
Ill keep Theo, CC and Lackey.
Castro is like Willie Mays compared to Iglesias with the bat
hewever, nobody is gonna mistake Starlin for Ozzie Smith.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
DFA Rev Halofan, The New York Yankees, The Tampa Bay Blue Seats, Carl Crawford, John Lackey, Darnell McDonald, Curt Young, Dave Magadan, Tim Bogar, Buck Showalter, Dan Johnson, Hawk Harrelson, Jonah Keri, Murray Chass, Mark Sanchez, Micheal Vick, Jared Allen, Jerry Jones, Al Davis, Rex Ryan, Rob Ryan, Trent Dilfer, Heath Evans, Cris Carter, Vuvuzelas, The Chicken Dance, Lady Gaga, Justin Bieber, Stephanie Meyer, and the entire fucking city of Philadelphia.
by TheLoneDavid on Oct 11, 2011 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions
probably for the
large amount of savings the Sox would make. Z is a pain the in ass and not good, but a less obnoxious contract. Castro is miles and miles ahead of where Iglesias will always be as a hitter.
The deal would save the Sox about $150 million in bad contracts if my calculations are correct. Which is absurd.
heh either really would work for me
I think of it this way- Z is owed $18 million. Lackey is owed $45.75 million. the difference between their salaries is $27.75 million. If someone was willing to take on $27.75 million of Lackey’s contract and take the Crawford deal, which will almost certainly be a pretty bad contract by the end as he gets older, I would jump for joy. If the Sox also wanted to give a Z a shot pitching in that deal until something terrible happens with him, whatever. I doubt he’d be any good, but it would free up a stupid amount of money for the team. In any case it’s moot as no team would be willing to take on that much salary from the Sox.
And I want to be clear when I say this that I absolutely am not one of the people that was against either of those signings from day 1.
Not sure what's worse...
Someone thinking CC, Lackey, and Theo for Zambrano and Castro is likely, or someone else saying they would NOT do it from the Sox perspective…
I mean, really: what?
Hi ho, Duke!
by The Duke of Silver on Oct 11, 2011 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions
I just dont agree
one bad season for Crawford does not make him a lost cause…I find that a little disheartening, bc it means that eventually every Red Sox will be leaving bc of fan expectations.
Castro is a nice player, but the guy is not Carl Crawford. Please before you type “did you watch him this season.” Look at the career not his first season in Fenway.
Most people in baseball say Crawford is one of the hardest workers in hte game, I really dont think Starlin Castro can hold the guys jock.
Crawford has trade value
bad season or not
The 2011 Over the Monster Gedman League Fantasy Baseball Champion
Of course he has trade value, MLB GMs are not stupid
I dont want to let a guy with 70 SB potential walk bc the guy has not played a full season with a real home field or more than 10k fans in a park.
Trading Crawford would be just adding insult to injury.
Boy, so many people hate Crawford and for no good reason really. I plan to give him a chance before I run him out of town for a guy who barely hit better than Marco Scutaro and has not proven he can handle AL East pitchers.
I wanna say, because I was being negative towards him above
I don’t hate on Crawford. I legitimately think he’ll bounce back next year and be a very good player. That said, when he signed the deal, the understanding was that towards the back end of the deal, he will be aging and not worth quite as much as the first years, and we have essentially lost a year of him in his prime, so regardless, the deal looks worse now than we expected. This isn’t to say it’ll definitely be a Wells-esque albatross (though it certainly has a shot of reaching that level if he doesn’t step it up), just to say that at this point there’s nearly zero chance that we get the value out of the contract that we hoped for.
Not really without eating salary
the thing is, remember, last season we won the bidding for him by offering more money than anyone else, and he certainly hasn’t improved his value since then.
Oh, don't get me wrong
I really, really like Carl Crawford. I always have liked him and was really excited when he was signed. However, he’s over 30 and owed over 120 million over the next 6 years. I don’t expect him to rebound to his 2009-10 numbers, but even if he did, it wouldn’t last until he is 36. The average annual production one can reasonably expect from him can be acquired for much less money. It might be over 2 position players as opposed to 1, but the discount in cost would be worth the distribution of production.
I mean, even those points considered, I’m still fine with keeping CC. But for Castro and no John Lackey…yep. All day.
Hi ho, Duke!
by The Duke of Silver on Oct 11, 2011 7:59 PM EDT up reply actions
G'wan ahead and take a look at his career numbers in Fenway
they’re not pretty, and the sample size isn’t that small.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
DFA Rev Halofan, The New York Yankees, The Tampa Bay Blue Seats, Carl Crawford, John Lackey, Darnell McDonald, Curt Young, Dave Magadan, Tim Bogar, Buck Showalter, Dan Johnson, Hawk Harrelson, Jonah Keri, Murray Chass, Mark Sanchez, Micheal Vick, Jared Allen, Jerry Jones, Al Davis, Rex Ryan, Rob Ryan, Trent Dilfer, Heath Evans, Cris Carter, Vuvuzelas, The Chicken Dance, Lady Gaga, Justin Bieber, Stephanie Meyer, and the entire fucking city of Philadelphia.
by TheLoneDavid on Oct 11, 2011 11:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Here is an idea
Keep him unless they give us something worthwhile….be it either a top prospect or taking Lackey’s contract.
The Cubs are under so much pressure from their fans to make a huge hiring right here, thus we can bend them over a barrell. Lets be serious, Cashman or Friedman aren’t going anywhere. So they are forced to go after Theo hard, while that doesn’t mean they are going to give us Starlin Castro, it does mean we can and will be able to ask for a top prospect.
If they say no, so do we.
My Twitter @totheights
If you had the choice
of a top prospect or the Cubs to take Lackey and his entire contract which one would you, as a fan, rather have?
That would be a tough one but I think I would go with getting Lackey out of Boston.
Do you really think Theo is going to take the job
and also be stuck with John Lackey?
Come now, that sounds far crazier than the Cubs giving up a #2 prospect.
Why not?
He’s signed Lacking in the first place. If he liked him so much for Boston, why not take him along to Chi-town.
dont simplify the signing
The Red Sox did not go out looking for ONLY Lackey, he was one of a few, 3 or 4 maybe quality starters and the Red Sox could not count on Beckett, Wake and Dice-K.
As for Theo taking him…Wait, you guys think Theo is that stupid?
And Theo did not sign him, the Red Sox signed him.
Do you turn in your work everyday to the fine people at human resources?
Ill ask your question another way.
How much is the 2004 and 2007 WS Championships worth to the Red Sox organization?
Priceless.
So if the Cubs want Theo, Brett Jackson or whomever is at the top of the Cubs prospects list is coming to the Red Sox.
Heck, I would charge teams (Cubs and Angels) 1 AA player just to talk to Theo while he is under contract. To sign him? Yeah thats a far more expensive question.
Red Sox cannot lose here. IF the Cubs or Angels bauk, then Theo stays and continue his work. IF they want Theo, we get someone real good for the system or to turn around in another deal.
Maybe not in Fenway, but the Cubs can believe what they want
if they dont want to pay, go sign some retread or better yet Tony Reagins is available.
He is under contract, pay the price or dont let the door hit you in the back side.
yep
not to mention 2004 Theo did it all with someone elses players
The 2011 Over the Monster Gedman League Fantasy Baseball Champion
Sort of
Mueller, Millar, Ortiz, Schilling, Roberts, and Foulke were all Theo’s guys.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
DFA Rev Halofan, The New York Yankees, The Tampa Bay Blue Seats, Carl Crawford, John Lackey, Darnell McDonald, Curt Young, Dave Magadan, Tim Bogar, Buck Showalter, Dan Johnson, Hawk Harrelson, Jonah Keri, Murray Chass, Mark Sanchez, Micheal Vick, Jared Allen, Jerry Jones, Al Davis, Rex Ryan, Rob Ryan, Trent Dilfer, Heath Evans, Cris Carter, Vuvuzelas, The Chicken Dance, Lady Gaga, Justin Bieber, Stephanie Meyer, and the entire fucking city of Philadelphia.
by TheLoneDavid on Oct 11, 2011 11:35 PM EDT up reply actions
What if...
..Epstein agreed to sign a contract extension with the Cubs before this deal was completed? Would that not skyrocket his value? We could easily then include Lackey (while eating part of his salary) in a deal.
it wouldn't skyrocket his price
because he’s not going to intend to go there to GM for a year. Remember, the compensation would NOT be a trade to the Cubs, it would be them paying us something to let him out of his contract so they could sign him to a new one. The current contract wouldn’t apply
Why would he do that?
He could just agree on an extension with the Cubs under the table and agree to it after he takes the job. Why announce it and cause your new team to give away heavier compensation?
Been thinking a lot
and I’m ok with Theo leaving, he has less to do with the 2 World Series wins than he does the Free Agency failures.
The 2011 Over the Monster Gedman League Fantasy Baseball Champion
I don't really think that's a fair assessment at all
but I’m ok with him leaving. If he wants to be there, I have faith in the owners to bring in someone intelligent to the position.
New suggested offer:
Theo Epstein for a Lou Malnati’s franchise. If they balk, say we’d accept a Giordano’s, but there must be half-price pizza on Mondays. If absolutely necessary, we may be open to a Gino’s East, but at that point we’d need Bacci’s thrown in as well.
by Sean O on Oct 11, 2011 6:33 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
If they balk at Lou Malnati's
you stand firm at Hot Doug’s AND Giordano’s
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
DFA Rev Halofan, The New York Yankees, The Tampa Bay Blue Seats, Carl Crawford, John Lackey, Darnell McDonald, Curt Young, Dave Magadan, Tim Bogar, Buck Showalter, Dan Johnson, Hawk Harrelson, Jonah Keri, Murray Chass, Mark Sanchez, Micheal Vick, Jared Allen, Jerry Jones, Al Davis, Rex Ryan, Rob Ryan, Trent Dilfer, Heath Evans, Cris Carter, Vuvuzelas, The Chicken Dance, Lady Gaga, Justin Bieber, Stephanie Meyer, and the entire fucking city of Philadelphia.
by TheLoneDavid on Oct 11, 2011 11:37 PM EDT up reply actions
The compensation for Theo Epstein will be significant
and this ownership group will make sure of that.
The 2011 Over the Monster Gedman League Fantasy Baseball Champion
Here's what I think is fair.
Epstein+Lackey+Youkilis+Jose Iglesias for Starlin Castro.
Seriously. Can we please do this? We’d use the money we save on Youkilis to pick up a better starting pitcher, and call Middlebrooks up.
The Red Sox suck, and I am the dirt that was sucked in, I am a dirty.
I'm narcissistic, nihilistic, and arrogant. That's me in a nutshell.
What do we know about Cherington?
Unproven obviously, but anything else?
Heh I was just going to link this
I thought particularly interesting was the group of current higher level front office folks who were all with Cleveland when he started his career there. Hart, Shapiro, Huntington, DePodesta, Byrnes, O’Dowd, etc.
by The Name is Dalton on Oct 12, 2011 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions

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