What would you give Albert Pujols?
by Sean O on Jan 30, 2011 3:14 PM EST
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PrintNote: everyone on the planet knows that Pujols will re-sign a monumental contract with the Cardinals that will keep him there for his entire career. But it's January and we have nothing else to talk about.
So what would you give the unquestioned best player in the game? He is now 31 years old and has posted a staggering.331/.426/.624/1.050 line so far in his career, good for a 172 OPS+. That's good for 6th best of all time, tied with Mickey Mantle, and the 2nd best righty. And, not for nothing, he's also a superb 1B by pretty much every defensive metric you care about.
Now, for the Red Sox. Sure, we have Adrian Gonzalez (hopefully locked up for 8/154, or something like that), but this is almost definitely Papi's last season. So, with the belief that Gonzo would be our DH for the following 7 years, I would give brand new Sox 1B Albert Pujols... 10 years/$310m.
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8/240
I can agree to 30 million a year, but 10 years is a little rich for my blood. He still breaks A-Rod’s record with this contract, but then you have to deal with Youkilis at third for two more years after this, if it works out, great, if it doesn’t then arghabibble.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
Official Baker of Red Sox Nation
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by BoldandBrash on Jan 30, 2011 3:21 PM EST up reply actions
10/300.
The problem is how much risk you take on by giving him that deal. If he gets injured, you’re screwed. But he’s just too good not to do that.
...why?
1). They have limitless cash reserves.
2). They have no long- or short-term solution at DH.
3). Pujols is the best player in the game.
4). …who has little to no impending injury risk.
I'd love to see them sign him for the $ it would take
He would be effective a year or two, and then it would just be another terrible contract.
!!!!! GONZO !!!!!
!!!!! CRAWFORD !!!!!
!!!!! LIVERPOOL !!!!!
Really?
You think Pujols is going to decline precipitously at the age of 33? It’s far more likely, given his consistency, skillset, and comparables, that he’ll be a 5+ WAR player well into his late-30s – and this after accumulating 30-40 WAR in his age 32-36 seasons. No way in hell this becomes a “terrible contract,” barring a huge unforeseen injury.
I think he is older than claimed.
thats a big part of it. Steroids play the other.
!!!!! GONZO !!!!!
!!!!! CRAWFORD !!!!!
!!!!! LIVERPOOL !!!!!
I am absolutely 100% positive that Pujols is not on any sort of PEDs.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
Official Baker of Red Sox Nation
by TheLoneDavid on Jan 30, 2011 9:15 PM EST up reply actions
no you are not 100% sure of that
you are just as sure as I am that he has done them, which is not sure at all.
nothing but opinions, both yours and mine.
Look, I don’t know if he did them or not, but my gut feeling says there is a strong chance he did, considering the era he came up in.
!!!!! GONZO !!!!!
!!!!! CRAWFORD !!!!!
!!!!! LIVERPOOL !!!!!
Wouldn't make a difference anyway
Plus, his numbers have never changed, so he would apparently be the only one who isn’t detectable.
Why do people assume that if you did steroids or HGH your numbers will
automatically go up? Or if you stop taking them they will go down? I can see that to a point when players get to their mid 30’s.
For instance, Roger Maris never hit 39 homers in 1960. And other than the 61 in 61 and the previous season, he never hit more than 33 homers. Does that mean Maris did steroids that year? Probably not.
If Arod didnt take HGH does this mean he wasnt capable of hitting 40+ homers?
Just because Pujols numbers dont fluctuate doesnt mean he isnt taking steroids (HGH is more likely). They “might” help him balance his strength throughout the season. Also he has had quite a few injuries and could be using HGH to help getting through the season. I stress the might and coulds.
“If” this is the case, would Pujols be any less of a player? Nope with or without HGH Pujols would still be one of the best hitters ever. I feel the same about Barry Bonds, even though I will admit HGH helped him get through the season and get stronger at an advanced age.
I believe McGwire starting taking them because of all the injuries he had early in his career with the A’s.
i don't know about HGH, but steroids are incredible
i don’t think HGH by itself helps performance that much.
however, anabolic steroids do!
make no mistake about that.
steroid’s affect on your body goes beyond muscle mass. your hands become so fast, they fly. honest.
minor leaguers use them and get caught often. it is clearly the difference of getting to double A or the big show for some.
add weight lifting and muscle training/building and you turn into aroid.
add a stimulate in the amphetamine class, legal or otherwise, and you will turn into bobby bonds.
steroids were invented sometime during the hitler era by a german scientist. the nazi’s played with them for soldier use, along with meth.
after the war, roids became global.
the famous case of the east german ‘68 woman’s olympic team using tons of the things in a warped experiment, gave the world first hand knowledge of the positive affect on performance.
it was written in some bio of mickey mantle that he used them in ‘61. so, yes, maris may have used them also. check out maris’ career, life and death and it sounds like a classic case.
in 1978 some red sox pitcher admitted to using them, and became the first documented user in MLB.
if steroids were going unchecked in the MLB, like they were, you would have to be an idiot not to have used them.
steroids, like everything chemical, are generally, not harmful if used in moderation or under a doctor’s care.
the use of roids will need to be addressed as more known roid users become HOF eligible.
personally: like other medical advancements since MLB started in the 1800’s, steroids should be legalized.
for the money, some chemist will always invent another, undetectable roid. the calf leg roid that made the news last year coming out of canada for a-roid, is a good example.
it would make a very big difference
most players weren’t detected.
detection capabilities followed use by years.
even now, a player could use certain roids in the off season and be clean by february reporting. MLB may test in the off season like the NFL does, but i don’t know.
pujols was drafted 405th then turned into a superstar of epic proportions, during a defacto legal time to use them.
who knows. but as long as the MLB’s don’t ask, don’t tell policies of deception, stay in practice, we may never really know.
I also dont understand why the pitchers dont get brought up
with the hitters. Its like they got a complete pass on this era and that shouldnt be the case.
I just think other factors also come into play with the steroid era. Expansion, new smaller stadiums, more money which in turn got players working out more in the offseason with personal trainers, the teams having their own work out facilities, and lasik eye surgery (which may be the biggest performance enhancer in baseball). These all have a play, along with steroids, for the jump in home runs in the 90’s.
You know, Lasik is a great point...
It makes me think of Jim Rice, with the rumors that his career fell off a cliff as his vision began to fade and because he was too proud to wear glasses.
I wonder, if Lasik had been around in Rice’s time, what would have happened to his numbers after the surgery.
If it really was his vision that caused his career to come up short (and still got him into the Hall of Fame), I wonder whether that’s something that has to be considered when comparing to today’s older players still in the game.
I agree with Sean
even if he did or didn’t do them, his numbers have not changed. The only thing I’m sure about, is that he is not going to stop in the next three year. Unless that elbow finally gives way…
I am not 100% certain
but I don’t think Pujols was on any list testing for PEDs. His numbers aren’t Giambi like or others that dropped when mandatory testing took place. He probably has been clean..
Or Pujols could have been taking HGH the whole time and is still taking it now.
The only way getting caught is buying it and having your name on the paperwork.
I, most certainly,
do not.
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
7/215-220 or 8/240-245
But years wise, I wouldn’t move to 10. He’s had some injuries popping up, but he’s so good that he’s been able to play and play well through them. When he gets older, those types of injuries are gonna inhibit him more.
by The Burning Scheyer Jersey on Jan 30, 2011 5:55 PM EST reply actions
It's a bit of a loaded question
Do the Sox need to stay under an assumed luxury tax threshhold? Second, it’s not my money. Therefore I’ll take both out of the mix and offer what I think he’s worth and/or will get. I’ll say 8/$240M.
Personally, I wouldn't do it
Not because Pujols won’t be worth the money it’d take – he’s as good a bet to be worth a ludicrously huge contract as anyone in baseball history. But because it would mean (assuming the Gonzo extension is real) that we’re paying our first baseman $30+ million a year AND paying our DH an additional $20+ million a year. And each of them would be signed for more than six years. In a market where good DHs are making $5-$12 million a year, mostly on one-year deals.
As “big market” as the Red Sox are, they cannot afford that kind of overpay without crippling their ability to adequately spend on the rest of the team.
Er, um, WHA?
$93+ MM per year? Really? Or did you mean 8/230?
Fenway: "An alternate and better universe, disguised as a ballpark." --Thomas Boswell
'10 years/$310m' ?
no way
assuming gonzo signs, signing pujols for anything close to $31m/yr, would limit our ability to get some other FA’s needed to fill a void.
he’s too old to build around for such a long length of time.
he is definitely a community enhancer that will somehow raise more money for the FO,
6 for $150m – (1st 2@ $30, next 2 @ $25, last 2@ $20) optional 7th
The Moon.
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
by Rogue Nine on Jan 30, 2011 10:23 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
I wouldn't really pay much for Pujols..
One is forking out the cash for past performance. His numbers are going to decline, and there should be an obvious drop when he reaches 35 in 4 years time.. Does he have Hall of Fame numbers? yes? if he continues at this pace will he be a first ballot Hall of Famer? Yes, but I rather go with Gonzalez, who is younger, looking for his own world series ring, and quite frankly his bat suits Fenway.
If the foaming at the mouth masses and the Red Sox nation demands Albert-o on the team, I would probably say 4/80 deal, and a fifth year team option. If it was 2004. I would consider a 10/240 deal, but now, a long term mega million deal is more Vernon Wellish than Mickey Mantle.
Gonzo fits Fenway much better than most lefties
Given his sweet, sweet opposite field power. But let’s not kid ourselves, superferret – Pujols has a full .070 career ISO over Adrian (.293 vs .223), and he’s a pull-happy right handed hitter. He’d go friggin’ nuts at Fenway.
Adrian Gonzalez and Albert Pujols are both elite hitters, both of whom would fit Fenway like a glove. But there’s no question that Pujols is superior.
I apologize..
I didn’t mean to imply that Adrian Gonzalez was a better hitter than Albert Pujols. I meant to imply that the Sox have a player who could have really good numbers hitting at Fenway with Gonzalez. He may have Pujols WAR numbers for the next couple years, but Pujols won’t have the same WAR numbers as he did this year or the years previous. He is going to be more injury prone, slower bat speed, and pitchers will figure out what pitches he will have problems with, like any ballplayer…
I was trying to imply that as an investment, it is better for contract terms for the Sox to go for a younger players, so the contract duration will have better value at the tail end.
I just see anything longer than a four year contract for Pujols as waste of money, because his numbers wont match his contract value. It is better to put the money in other ways to help the team.
If Pujols quit today, he probably could get into the Hall of Fame, after a couple years of being on the ballot or through the veterans committee. However, I think the A-Rod contract should be a big warning, of mega deal long term deals. I think the Teixiera deal can be looked upon as a big mistake, even though Tex could redeemed himself a bit in 2011.
5/160, take it or leave it
Unless he learns how to catch, Pujols is not taking over for a Nick Green-type, but for whoever the Red Sox have at 1B or DH. This team will never be fielding anything close to replacement level players at either of those positions unless they’re playing Northeastern. I feel confident assuming this team will always seek to field and successfully develop/obtain players capable of putting up at least 4-5 WAR at those positions if not more. To be worth the massive contract Pujols basically has to keep producing at his ridiculous 8-9 WAR pace without interruption. If he declines to just being human at around 5.5-6, then you find yourself paying 30M for only 1-2 surplus wins. So then the question is how soon do you expect him to decline.
When Alex Rodriguez signed the 10/252 contract in 2000, he was 5 years younger than Pujols, at a more premium defensive position, and coming off a 9.6 WAR season. Even with the 5 year advantage, he had 5 elite seasons of 7.5+ WAR (three of them in Texas with some artificial assistance for those massive offensive #’s), 2 excellent ones of 6.0-6.6, and 3 good but otherwise unspectacular ones of 4.5 or less. Since his age 32 season in 2007 he has gone from game-changing elite to All-Star caliber to very good to decent, in no time flat.. Injuries have started popping up. His defense has calcified.
Pujols would be signed for a contract starting in 2012, STARTING in his age 32 season. I’d be willing to overpay for his age 32-36 seasons, maybe an option for a sixth year at 37, not a day further. 32 is the most important number, not 10 or 300. At this point the balance of risk between whether he will continue his past production, or decline/be injured, is tilting towards the unfavorable side.
As for how this turns out, the Cardinals will be forced to sign him for more money and probably a lot more years than they want, but they really don’t have any other choice.
I think this pretty much spells it out for me.
10 years is insane in my opinion.
And somehow
ARod was able to get another 10 year deal worth more money for his age 32 season on. Seriously, I do not know how that happened. The Yankees should have offered him a pay cut.
I think a lot of the goal of trying to sign Arod
has to do with his chances on getting the HR record. Was that signing before he was caught with HGH? Them getting the new park too. And also, they might have been thinking he could stay healthy for those years since he would be playing 3B instead of SS.
Im not saying it was a smart move, the only players I would take a chance on signing for 10 years are guys 26 and younger. Anything over that you are looking for trouble.
Actually, I think it was after he got busted, wasn't it?
Oh, no, that was 2009. Really? Seems like so much longer ago.
Well, regardless, the other factor may have been the second World Series win by Boston in 2007 (ARod opted out of his contract before Game 4, I think, instead of showing up to pick up his award in person – the Henry Aaron Award? – and then Cashman was on record saying they wouldn’t negotiate with him if he opted out… before he was overruled, saddling them with ARod for another 10 years).
Then, of course, the steroids came out two years into that contract, and ARoid’s body immediately started to break down.
A-Rod’s body hasn’t broke down..
He has had an injury from overuse, a torn labrum, that is more constant stress or lots of pounding on joint..
A-Rod has kept himself in pretty good shape. The problem with baseball, is that small niggling injuries can bench a player, like a sprained wrist, which can effect bat speed.
A-Rod is still a very good player. Any pitcher has to be pretty careful around the guy, given he will send a blown pitch into the Yankee Stadium bullpens.
I think he lacerated himself
playing smoochy-face with himself in the mirror in an old warehouse once, too.
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
A-Roid
A-Rod body has stayed in shape cuz of his Steroids
by TheonlyJagsfaninSD on Feb 3, 2011 11:44 AM EST up reply actions
I always thought Arod got a bad rep
Im not his biggest fan by any means. He is definitely a diva. But I do remember when the Sox tried to trade for him, he was willing to renegotiate his contract to come to Boston. The Union wouldnt let him though. I always thought he never got enough props for that.
he was good for the ranger I'll admit that and I liked him when he played for the rangers but when someone goes to the Yankees everything changes
by TheonlyJagsfaninSD on Feb 3, 2011 4:28 PM EST up reply actions
Oh I agree, I booed Wade Boggs when he played for Tampa
all because he went to the Yankees as a free agent.
8 years/210
Given the needs for help elewhere in the lineup and the seemingly tight budget he’d leave behind. I might rather see them save the $$ for a great #2 or #3 starter and a great defensive catcher (if they can’t get an all-round superstar for the cash). We can rent Ortiz, Ordonnez or Guerrero for a couple of years till Youk is ready to full-time DH and Lowrie has his D and power numbers up to take over at 3rd.
In a couple years
Youk won’t be ready to DH, he’ll be ready to play first or third… for another team.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
Official Baker of Red Sox Nation
by TheLoneDavid on Jan 31, 2011 1:35 PM EST up reply actions
I was under the impression this was more tounge-in-cheek than serious...
So I’m note really concerned with the infeasibility of sighing Pujols. If we’re being serious, I would not sign him with AGon already in the fold. However, I think he’ll get something like 7-10 years 280 million.
is hypothetical money worth the same as real money?
maybe a dollar in the hand verse 2 dollar’s in the bush is worth more, hypothetically.
maybe hypothetical money is like canadian money, 1 american dollar is worth something like 500 loonies.
i would pay billions of hypothetical money for park avenue.
Sometimes I picture you wearing a helmet when you're at your computer.
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
by Bloggy on Jan 31, 2011 11:38 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
not so much on the computer
but i am known to wear one when sitting on barstools, as i have broken bones!
you liked that part about the loonies, eh?
It's like talking to a wall
Hypothetical because the Cardinals will absolutely re-sign him.
If he magically reaches FA, I would go up to 10/310 and not be too upset about it. Obviously preferring 8/240 or so.
untwist your panties
you were very clear, except about that part on hypothetical. does that mean we have Albert on our rader and we will be signing him in july? and did you mean we are trading gonzo? to who? when? and who do you think shot kennedy? and with the laws getting stricter every year, do you think it is just a matter of time before they start arresting baserunners for stealing bases? what about running through 3rd base stops? and what if/…………
If he signs with another team?
The phone numbers for Bartolo Colon’s personal trainer and dietician (which I think is like 1-800-DOMINOS, or something)…
"Laser show. So relax."
by nuthinboutnuthin on Jan 31, 2011 1:07 PM EST reply actions
Excuse me
He prefers Pizza Hut.
Writer for Pinstripe Alley, MLB Daily Dish
Follow me on twitter @nyybrandonc
New York Rangers- It's just pain.
As good as he is, I’d pass on Pujols. With the money you would need to sign him, you could take care of multiple positions. He’s amazing, but I would prefer he stay in St. Louis where he is an icon.
LestersLegends - Fantasy Football, Baseball, and Basketball Advice
7/300
okay i have cerebral palsy arthris and chronic fatigue as well i have a great life and loveing folks some days are better than other days i got a make-a-wish in 2001 and saw my favorite team the broncos it was the trip of a lifetime i wish everyone couild have gotten to enjoy that with me i know some of u hate the broncos and that okay but i bleed organ and bule for my mnr fans but i bleed orange and blue denver will rise again resident broncos fan for every blog resident broncos for stampede bule thanks shvd98z24 real name jeremy woodard nettleton high class of 02 yes i am a raider
boston
if u got him u wouild win like 5 world series in a row nightmare
okay i have cerebral palsy arthris and chronic fatigue as well i have a great life and loveing folks some days are better than other days i got a make-a-wish in 2001 and saw my favorite team the broncos it was the trip of a lifetime i wish everyone couild have gotten to enjoy that with me i know some of u hate the broncos and that okay but i bleed organ and bule for my mnr fans but i bleed orange and blue denver will rise again resident broncos fan for every blog resident broncos for stampede bule thanks shvd98z24 real name jeremy woodard nettleton high class of 02 yes i am a raider
for us yaknees fans
okay i have cerebral palsy arthris and chronic fatigue as well i have a great life and loveing folks some days are better than other days i got a make-a-wish in 2001 and saw my favorite team the broncos it was the trip of a lifetime i wish everyone couild have gotten to enjoy that with me i know some of u hate the broncos and that okay but i bleed organ and bule for my mnr fans but i bleed orange and blue denver will rise again resident broncos fan for every blog resident broncos for stampede bule thanks shvd98z24 real name jeremy woodard nettleton high class of 02 yes i am a raider
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