Doctoring the Ballplayers: Is Sox Medical Staff to Blame for Injuries?
by 0157H7 on Sep 2, 2010 1:46 PM EDT
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PrintESPN beat-writer Gordon Edes shines a spotlight on the Red Sox medical staff, and the question of whether they hold any responsibility for the injuries that devastated the team this season:
The Red Sox have placed 19 players on the disabled list, which they have used 24 times. By the end of the season, they will have lost close to 1,000 games -- or more -- to the DL, the equivalent of over six seasons. Six Opening Day starters have wound up on the DL, as well as nine former or current All-Stars.
The last time Francona used the same starting lineup, including DH, in back-to-back games was April 12 and 14. His lineup Tuesday night against the Baltimore Orioles was the 95th he has used this season.
Red Sox CEO Larry Lucchino on Friday acknowledged "the plague of injuries" endured by the Sox this season.
"It's obviously an area we have to examine,'' he said.
Lucchino said the team intends to review its medical staff after the season but insisted such a review comes under the heading of "due diligence.'' He also expressed confidence in the team's partnership with Massachusetts General Hospital.
Is there a smoking gun proving that it was Dr Gill in the study with the candlestick? Unfortunately not. The article details the treatment of Mike Cameron, Jacoby Ellsbury, and Dustin Pedroia, but doesn't provide any conclusive evidence that the Sox medical staff acted improperly. Of all the injured players, only Jacoby Ellsbury and his agent, Scott Boras, fingered Dr Gill's staff. Nevertheless, look for more recrimination and accusation in the coming months.
Ultimately, the blame for this season will rest with two entities: Lady Luck, who decided that we should try to compete for the playoffs with half of Pawtucket's lineup, and the Red Sox front office, who like all great leaders must bear ultimate responsibility for the performance of their subordinates. My feeling is that, aside from fielding a team with many key elements over 30, there wasn't much indication that Theo et al. would have to worry about injuries. Perhaps when the injury concerns became more heated they could have moved more aggressively to reinforce the team; however, there weren't a plethora of great options on the trade market either. However, I don't have the full picture (and neither does Gordon Edes, or the rest of the beat-writing battalion).
It is certainly possible that the medical staff made mistakes in diagnoses that cost time from our players or hurt their recoveries. Likewise, it is possible that the training staff and the players themselves didn't work enough on conditioning, resulting in more injuries.
Like it or not, injury is an inevitable part of baseball, where players are expected to perform unnatural actions, like hurtling hundreds of balls at 90 mph, repetitively swinging a hunk of wood, or crashing into other players at full-speed (oh wait, that's Football; would somebody please tell Adrian Beltre that his position is third-base, not line-backer?). Some of this seasons injuries were entirely predictable - the 38-year-old Cameron's, for example. Others were freak occurrences that no one would have expected (Pedroia, Ellsbury). The most we can hope for is better play next year.
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Thanks for making a post for 75bangwagon and I to resume our discussion from a long gone thread.
This is something he would die to post on in 3…2…1…
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
I think you meant to say the 38 yr old Cameron Beltre the train is 31
The breaking of bones was just an unfortunste occurance. Cameron is definitely age related even though he keeps himself in top shape. Lowrie just kissed the wrong girl. I have to imagine this must be some type of baseball injury record or something close to it with all players we had go down this season.
"Man that ball got outta here in a hurry, you know anything that travels that far oughta have a damn stewardess on it, don't you think?" - Crash Davis
BLAME BOGAR
i am all for throwing him under the bus ! :-)
by RED SOX are #1 in my heart on Sep 2, 2010 3:53 PM EDT reply actions
No, you're WRONG!
It’s BELTRE’s fault. He injured Ellsbury, and because since everything he does is cool, all the other Sox wanted to join him on the DL.
Fenway: "An alternate and better universe, disguised as a ballpark." --Thomas Boswell
Exactly, Theo had no idea that Beltre's knee is actually a reincarnation of Monos, the greek god of pain.
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
Actually, his knees
are “Manos: The Knees of Fate”.
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
by Bloggy on Sep 2, 2010 7:44 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Distinctions
Obviously the medical staff is not to blame for the injuries. And the types of injuries sustained have little to nothing to do with the training staff (an exception may be the bad backs, but no training can avoid a broken rib or foot- has any team had 4 such injuries in a year??).
Has the medical team misread any of them? That is really what Edes is getting at. Hard for us to say. But there certainly is a perception problem. But weren’t we in this same spot a few years ago? It is a medical practice, but some practice better than others. :-)
"simul justus et peccator"
yeah this is the point
I know that was the deal with Ellsbury- he was upset that they didn’t notice the cracks, but then even the doctor he got the second opinion from said they were treated the same way, so it wasn’t a huge deal. The other injuries, I don’t even think I see how the doctors could have messed up.
I'm torn
I think both are at fault here. Nyger should have taken it like a man when they hit him the first time, instead he decided to show the Marlins up by stealing two bases and scoring on a sac fly. But in the scheme of things he was hit, punishment handed out and the score made 0 impact on the final outcome. Volstad then decided to be a dumbass and throw at him again, he deserved any punches he took for that.
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
Both are at fault
But I disagree that Nyjer was at fault for stealing those bases. The whole “unwritten” rules thing is overrated, and besides, the Nats were down and it was the 4th inning. I get the complaint if the Nats were blowing the Marlins out, or if it was the bottom of the ninth and the game was in the bag, but after all these crazy comebacks, I think he’d be stupid NOT to steal those bases. You don’t want him to show you up on the bases? Then throw the guy out! To me, Volstad was completely justified with the first plunk, and a total baby for the second throw behind.
Now, as for charging the mound and beating his chest – Nyjer is an idiot. No excuse for that. He’s been acting like a complete moron lately, and deserved to get clotheslined.
I think the Marlins were pissed off...
at Morgan for colliding with the catcher Brett Hayes on a ground ball from second, or something like that, Hayes separated his shoulder. Morgan was benched for another charge of the Cardinals catcher even though he was off the plate. The Marlins were probably going to harass Morgan the whole game.. I think that was the unwritten rule that was broken, purposefully going full force at the catcher, when a slide could had been done…
Again, I don't completely agree
The play with the Cardinals catcher was Bush League, and I’m surprised no one tried to take him out then. But if you look at the collision with the Marlins catcher, it didn’t seem like an awful play to me at all. Could he maybe have slid in and been safe? Sure. But it wasn’t cut-and-dry, and in the rush of things, he made a decision, dropped his shoulder and went in. It’s a bummer that the catcher was hurt, but on THIS play, I don’t think Nyjer really did anything too wrong.
Either way, he took a pitch in the back, and I’m fine with that too. Volstad should have thrown at him the first time, if nothing else, to make everyone feel better. My point with the post above though, was in response to Rogue saying that he showed the Marlins up by stealing those bases. I think there’s nothing wrong with running wild on the bases, especially when you’re down.
They were down by a ton though, he was just stat padding. And I agree that the whole “code” thing is way over done but it’s their code. And their code says when you get hit by a pitch because of something you did before you take your base and that’s the end of it and you just play baseball. Nyger wasn’t just playing baseball, he was trying to be a pain by taking those bases. Despite that he shouldn’t have been thrown at again, the lead was so big that his run scored barely counted for anything besides another ER on Volstad’s record.
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
Yeah, I guess we're on the same page
I mean, I’m not trying to make any excuses for the guy. He’s been an eff-up over the last week or two… I think I’ve just heard a few people (not you, I beliieve) say that he deserved the second “throw-behind” because of running the bases, and I don’t agree with that. Maybe he shouldn’t have done it, but throwing at him a second time was asking to get charged.
I guess I’m saying I don’t think he should have been thrown at a second time, but at the same time, I’m not surprised that he was and he probably shouldn’t have been surprised either.
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
He was thrown at a second time, because the Marlins were just pissed off at him. The first time he was hit, was a message, that we are pissed at his behavior, you better keep it in check. The second time was "So you didn’t get the message the first time, here it is again..
The problem for Nyjer, isn’t that the Marlins and Cardinals are pissed off at him, it is whether his teammates will back him up in the future. Much like Vincent Padilla and his final swan song with the Rangers. At this moment, the MFY and the Blue Jays have a cold war going on, and has been going on since A-Rod made his bush league move by calling for a ball while on the basepaths..
Obviously the guy is very fast, and he seems to be a so-so leadoff, but he needs support and cooperation from those around him, or else he will be traded this off season.
no, you're misreading strategy.
Morgan simply has realized that he hasn’t been getting on base enough lately to warrant being a leadoff guy, so he’s trying to make it so everyone will throw at him every at bat so he can get on base and steal bases.
There has to be something up
The same doctor for the Red Sox is also with the Bruins and Patriots, who also had injury riddled seasons. Tom Brady went out to LA beacuse he didnt trust him.
2010 Red Sox Playoffs.... We Can Do It!
"That place was for diehard sports fans. I only follow my team when they're in the playoffs" - Homer Simpson
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by bestbostonsports on Sep 2, 2010 5:00 PM EDT reply actions
That's ridiculous
The Patriots have a lot of old players playing a very violent game — that’s why they have so many injuries. And Brady went out to Los Angeles because his wife is a model and his ex-girlfriend and mother of his first child lives there — you can’t blame him for looking out for his family, and that has nothing to do with medical staff.
I want to know
Why Beltre isn’t an option in this poll.
People will do anything
to avoid blaming Theo for the $173m failure. It’s incredible.
Building Fenway from the ground up - Virtual Fenway
I refuse to blame Theo
For not knowing that Beltre’s knee has the firepower of 4 tons of TNT or that a perfectly healthy center fielder with a long long track record of health would get an injury that (as wolf proves) anyone can get or that some players would break their fingers and hands with foul balls. We got a shit storm. Hell the biggest injury risk he got was Lackey who was one of the few to actually make it the whole season, go figure. Can’t pin anything on him, he did his best to field a good team, and healthy this team wins the division. We caught some bad luck this year. Only place blame when blame is due, not just for the sake of blaming someone.
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
Completely agree.
Not to mention our other injury-magnet, Drew, stayed healthy too. Almost every one of these injuries was unforeseeable (foul tips, collisions in the field, etc). Can’t blame Theo for that.
And another thing, calling this team a “$173M failure” is a little dramatic. A disappointment? Totally. We’re all bummed to not make the postseason. But a failure? C’mon. This team is still probably going to win 90 games. If you want a high-priced failure, look at the Mets.
Ridiculous
Ellsbury’s injury was a freak accident.
Pedroia’s injury was a freak accident.
I’m still not sure how Youk got hurt, but that suggests it wasn’t a routine occurrence.
V-Mart’s injury was a freak accident.
Tek’s injury was a freak accident.
Salty’s injury is one of those WTF moments that medical science simply can’t explain.
Buchholz’s injury was foreseeable only in that as a player who never runs the bases because he’s a pitcher in the American League, it wasn’t surprising. But that doesn’t mean it had anything to do with Theo.
Beckett’s injury was predictable because he’s not the sturdiest guy around, but he still would have gotten hurt even without the contract extension.
Cameron’s injury wasn’t predictable but is just one of those things that happens sometimes to athletes in their late 30s. It also happens to athletes in their preteens, teens, and 20s. Not Theo’s fault.
If all those guys stayed healthy, this would be a 100+ win team, so I’ll blame Theo for putting together a team that would have been the most dominant of his tenure had it not been for a series of freak events even the most prescient general manager would not have foreseen.
Yeah
If Pedrioa and Youkilis being here is Theo’s fault I think my thoughts on Theo are mostly fine.
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
And you honestly believe
That a team with Lester and Buchholz followed by the clowns would win 100+? That’s insane. Beckett isn’t injured, he sucks, and Lackey is a #5 starter pretending to be a #3.
We’re in third place because we had an old, mediocre club without functional reserve options. We pay a ton of money to average or below players who got injured and were replaced with slightly more below average guys.
This was never a 100 win team. We stayed afloat because of 2 exceptional starters and the production of our few really good players. Replacing meh with crap isn’t that big of a deal.
Building Fenway from the ground up - Virtual Fenway
Wow
Youkilis
Pedrioa
VMart
Cameron
Ellsbury
That’s meh? Seriously lower your standards or only watch the All-Star game, those are the only two ways in which you’ll ever watch a product you will be satisfied with.
But $173 million you say?
$12.5 – Lowell was hurt for a while there
$12.1 – Beckett missed half the season
$9.4 – Youk misses a third
$7.8 – Cameron played hurt all year
$7.7 – VMart missed a few weeks
$3.8 – Pedey misses half the season
$3.0 – Tek misses half the season
$0.5 – Ellsbury misses the whole season
$3.4 – Hermida
$9 – Lugo, nuff said
So there’s about $70 mil of payroll that was greatly impeded for large chunks of the season. The point is that you probably shouldn’t base your team expectations around what the payroll is. Hell we could pay everyone $100,000,000 but if they all get hurt it doesn’t matter, the product isn’t going to be as good.
Some of our depth was good, Nava posted a 800+ OPS up through July, McDonald showed positive defense in the corners with an average bat but it gets to the point where so many players are injured that bandaids don’t do much help but the nature of the problem prevents you from going out and getting the stitches you really need. Pedrioa is the present and future at 2B, you can’t just go out and trade for another good one especially since they expected him back.
Some things just can’t be changed or predicted, you can whine and bitch about it or you can just accept it as a part of life and move on because we aren’t getting this season back and there wasn’t any way we could have prevented this from happening. I suggest moving on.
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
A team with Lester and Buchholz followed by the clowns is going to win 90+
Beckett has been injured for much of the year — you can deny that all you like, but while you’re entitled to your opinion, you’re not entitled to your own facts, and you’re just plain wrong.
And the difference between Youk, Pedroia, Cameron, Ellsbury, and V-Mart and the guys who have had to fill in for them the whole time they’ve been injured is easily 10 games. I understand that the math is complicated when you have to add and prorate things, but it’s not that complicated.
Good Lord.
It’s okay if you are disappointed your $173mil ball club isn’t playing up to expectations, so long as you’re sensible about the reasons why.
I’m disappointed, too. Perhaps if the team didn’t get the plague.
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
3rd place in the AL East is first in any other division
Which isn’t an excuse, we play where we play and we need to deal with it. But the point is, this team is not a failure. I honestly believe that if these crazy injuries had happened to almost any other team, they would’ve played .500 ball. Take Teixeira, Cano, Posada and Gardner out of the Yankees lineup for an extended period of time, and they look completely different…
Even with all of our replacement players this season, we are second in the majors in runs scored! The fact that we just didn’t roll over and die this season is a testament to how deep this team is (which Theo and Co get most of the credit for).
Is that the best you can do?
If the team won 100 games but the Yankees and Rays both won 105, you’d still be whining about what a lousy job Theo did, putting together a team with the third best record in baseball.
Context matters.
Better than 2008 for NYC
$200 million for 3rd place.
Adrian Beltre is why we can't have healthy outfielders.
To call this season a failure is comical
Currently, even though the starting 1B, 2B, CF, LF (all good, very good or great players) done for the season with injuries along with a banged up SS and Catcher we sit at 76 wins. The only clubs with better records are the MFY, TB, Twins, Braves, and the Reds. I mean we are top 6 in w’s – sadly we sit in the AL East and this is baseball not horseshoes or handgrenades.
The injuries did us in. I think if the bullpen was lights out then we would be much closer to NYY and TBR. However, I am not sure I agree with the 100+ wins though due to the Beckett, Dice K and Lackey performances. When I type those three names I am left with this thought, “How are we even winning?” Yet, if we had a couple of good+ middle relief guys and one more for the 8th inning then yeah even with those 3 I mentioned maybe we would be 100+ this year. Regardless, with our starters on the field and solid middle relief we would be better.
For me, I went into this season excited about the starting 5 (even though Lackey I thought we overpaid). But, maybe Theo did that to block him from going to the NYY or another AL team – dunno and I had not read anything about that. My big qestion was Buch – would he produce? He is the brightest spot this year for me. I can only hope next year he can do it again!
Off topic for this thread but I would love to see a schedule where we play all teams in the AL (still do NL games too) the same amount of games and the top 5 or 6 get to go to the playoffs. We would be in the Post Season this year. Heck, even Toronto would be in the mix with that format. Any thoughts on that?
"Man that ball got outta here in a hurry, you know anything that travels that far oughta have a damn stewardess on it, don't you think?" - Crash Davis
Its all about Ellsbury
The medical staff had nothing do do with the injuries happening. Also, keep in mind there is a difference between the medical staff and the training staff. If anythng, the training and strength/conditioning staff is the question, but I don’t believe there is anything there either.
The only reason the topic is being discussed is because of the Ellsbury mis-diagnosis. He broke his ribs in April, they told him it was a bruise, he asked for an MRI and was refused. It turns out the ribs were broken and he had go back on the DL. And many have never forgiven him for being right.
Besides being right
He didn’t handle it well, he didn’t spend time with the team or even talk about it. No tweet saying “Working hard to get back.” No statement to the media saying when he might be back. Nothing. Don’t get mad at the press or the fans for misreading your actions when you aren’t giving them the story yourself. You can say “They didn’t know the whole story.” All you want but TELL US THE REAL STORY and make it right. He didn’t do that. Meanwhile Pedrioa was taking grounders from his knees with the team the first day on the DL. It’s things like that, the whole public relations part of the job he didn’t do well. It’s why people don’t like JD Drew despite him being a great right fielder, he doesn’t do media, if you don’t, don’t be surprised when people don’t like you.
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
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