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It's Not Over Until It's... Yesterday

ST. PETERSBURG - AUGUST 29:  Infielder Yamaico Navarro #56 of the Boston Red Sox fouls off a pitch against the Tampa Bay Rays during the game at Tropicana Field on August 29 2010 in St. Petersburg Florida.  (Photo by J. Meric/Getty Images)


With their 5-3 loss last night, and the dispiriting defeat on Saturday, the Red Sox have successfully reached into the still-beating heart of Red Sox Nation, and torn it right out, Aztec-style / Temple of Doom Style.

Make no mistake: the playoff competition is over. Boston started this series 5.5 back of the Rays for the Wildcard. Now they're 6.5 back, with a month to go. New York and Tampa are both healthy, while half of Boston's starting lineup is on the DL. The bullpen after Bard (and sometimes Paps) is wretched. Our starting rotation after Lester is questionable.

The ONLY way Boston makes the playoffs is some horrific act of god that no one, not even a bitter Red Sox like myself, would wish on another team. Like a volcano opens up under the Bronx. The Umbrella Corporation turns the whole team into ravenous zombies (Nick Swisher was a test case). Left-wing revolutionaries force St Petersburg, FL to secede from the rest of the country.  No, we won't even fantasize about those possibilities...

Star-divide

Let it suffice that if the Sox do somehow eke their way into the playoffs, it would require miraculous play from them and a hideous collapse from one of the other AL East teams. There are 31 games left on the calendar. At 74- 57, in order for our team to hit Theo's goal of 95 wins, which has been the aim every year, they'd need to go 21-10, or a winning percentage of 67.8%. Even if Boston somehow pulled that off with this beat up squad, New York and Tampa, at 80-50, only need to go 16-15 to have 96 wins. 6.5 games back is basically too much ground to cover in this little time.

So, if the playoffs are out of the question, the team just couting its way down to mathematical eliminiation, what's left to see? What's left to watch, discuss, enjoy? Plenty. Ortiz, Beltre, Buchholz and Lester are all having great seasons, which we can continue to savor.  There's a lot of prospects to observe on the major league stage (see Outfield, Ours), and September's roster expansion should bring yet more. In lost seasons, one can focus on the development of young players, the Daniel Navas and Ryan Kalishs of the world. And another offseason is coming, with interesting names to discuss acquiring and players to decide on re-signing. I hate that I have to say it, but there's always next year.

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Yup. We're toast.

I’ll still watch, though.

Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.

@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard

by Bloggy on Aug 30, 2010 8:31 AM EDT reply actions  

that Is a controdictoin

If its over why are you watching? What’s the point?

2010 Red Sox Playoffs.... We Can Do It!
"That place was for diehard sports fans. I only follow my team when they're in the playoffs" - Homer Simpson
Join the Lacrosse community The Lacrosse Blog

by bestbostonsports on Aug 30, 2010 8:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

What's the point?

Is that a serious question?

Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.

@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard

by Bloggy on Aug 30, 2010 8:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

sort of

I don’t think its over yet, but It you do, why watch?

2010 Red Sox Playoffs.... We Can Do It!
"That place was for diehard sports fans. I only follow my team when they're in the playoffs" - Homer Simpson
Join the Lacrosse community The Lacrosse Blog

by bestbostonsports on Aug 30, 2010 8:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

Because it's baseball. And it's awesome.

Like Brogshan says below, despite the fact that we are going to miss the playoffs*, I really feel that this team has overachieved on many levels. We had a plague-level number of injuries and still we were competitive. Pretty damned impressive, if you ask me.

Whether they make the playoffs or they don’t, they are still the Red Sox and I still love ’em. Except for John Lackey.

*I know we are not mathematically eliminated from the playoffs and as such still have a chance, and if that happens I’ll be the happiest little fart of a thing you can imagine, but all signs…ALL signs…point to no.

Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.

@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard

by Bloggy on Aug 30, 2010 9:10 AM EDT up reply actions  

The point is to watch baseball

Even if they don’t make the playoffs, this has been an exciting year. I’m surprised they’ve done as well as well and they have. I don’t watch the Red Sox because they make the playoffs, I watch because I love the team. Yes I want them to make the postseason, but if that was the only reason I watched I’d find a different team.

by brogshan on Aug 30, 2010 8:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

i agree

But to be a fan is to have hope. I still do with this team

2010 Red Sox Playoffs.... We Can Do It!
"That place was for diehard sports fans. I only follow my team when they're in the playoffs" - Homer Simpson
Join the Lacrosse community The Lacrosse Blog

by bestbostonsports on Aug 30, 2010 9:02 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'm with you.

E. Coli does not speak for the fans of this team. I know a lot of people have lost faith, but in my opinion, part of being a fan is maintaining hope, especially in a situation like this. I wouldn’t blame Orioles or Jays fans for giving up on the season a while ago, even if they weren’t mathematically eliminated, but the Red Sox’s situation is different. They’re close. It’s unlikely they’ll make the playoffs—heck, poor play the rest of the way and they might drop to 4th in the division. But writing a post about how it’s over is really disheartening. It saddens me to know that Red Sox fans, or anyone who calls him or herself a fan of any team, can think like that. That is not what being a fan is about. We’re here to be ludicrous, to think there’s hope, to be homers for the team. The writers on this site have been insisting it’s over for a long time, but I refuse to accept their pessimism—or realism, as they might label it—until the Sox are officially out of the hunt.

Oh, if a man tried to take his time on earth, and prove before he died
What one man's life could be worth--oh, I wonder what would happen to this world.

by LegendaryTadpole on Aug 30, 2010 10:06 AM EDT up reply actions  

I agree

with everything you said. You are in the same boat as me. It can be over, but it feels like it is being rubbed in a bit too much.

2010 Red Sox Playoffs.... We Can Do It!
"That place was for diehard sports fans. I only follow my team when they're in the playoffs" - Homer Simpson
Join the Lacrosse community The Lacrosse Blog

by bestbostonsports on Aug 30, 2010 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's your perogative

But I reject the idea that a fan’s job is to be blindly supportive and hopeful.

USG

by Ben Buchanan on Aug 30, 2010 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree

I think you can be a fan but be a well informed fan who can form opinions on players/teams/managers based on your own reasoning.

Using the logic we are here to be ludicrous, to be homers for a team, means we think Kevin Cash is a great baseball player?

How about Okajima, I’m a huge fan of Okajima, I love what he did in 2007. However, 2010 Oki is different, should I reject and think he should be put into the game in key situations?

Players have bad years, players age and become decline, some teams just aren’t built to win, injuries kill seasons and there is always next year.

To me being a fan in knowing your most likely not going to win and still loving a team. (Also, please don’t take this as my claiming to be a true fan and saying others aren’t, nothing is more annoying than people who claim their fandom is the true fandom.)

In regards to why you watch, I watch baseball because I love baseball, I watch the Red Soxs because I love the Red Soxs. I watch the Mariners because well….I love baseball and their games normally come on right after the Red Soxs games end. I also find them to be a fun team to watch. If all I cared was winning and making the post season, I’d simply watch come to post season and watch whatever team looked like it was going to win.

by ruktuim on Aug 30, 2010 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

My problem is not with logic or reason. Ben, you’ve put words in my mouth. I think there’s a difference between ludicrous and blind. The problem comes when the writers on this site, which has a sizable following, continually impress upon their readers these visions of doom and despair. Do we need to say that Kevin Cash is awesome? I never suggested anything of the sort, and you should be ashamed for trying to use such a straw man argument against me.

When a person writes an opinion article, he believes he is right—otherwise, he wouldn’t begin writing in the first place. More important, he believes that he will continue to be right. Nobody writes an article which states, “The Baltimore Orioles are a terribly-run franchise, but maybe I could be wrong about that.” No, he looks for statistics and numbers and uses everything he can to prove he’s right. In stating that the Red Sox season is over, he wants it to be over. If offered without qualification, that’s what it boils down to. I understand that the article above does indeed offer a modicum of qualification (in stating that the Red Sox can still be saved, albeit only by a “horrific act of god”), but frankly, that’s not enough for me. It’s essentially an unqualified assertion.

Ludicrous means that we’re 6.5 back with a month to go and we at least hope they can win, which requires thinking its possible. This article is stating it’s impossible (I’m not accepting a volcano eruption in New York city as a possibility), and therefore there can be no hope. That’s my logic, ruktuim—that E. Coli has stopped hoping we win. If I’m wrong about that, then he can feel free to correct me, but in that case I think he should have written something that gave me any hint whatsoever that I was wrong. This article does not read hopefully to me. Does it to you? Have I missed some optimistic streak hidden underneath the gloom?

It’s ludicrous to think that the Red Sox can come back at this point, but it’s not insane. Insane is thinking Cash is a good player and Okajima won’t implode in key situations. I’m not asking for insanity. I just wish there were more hope and positivity floating around. Everyone seems so negative around here. I think some hope could do everyone a bit of good. The Sox are close to being done—maybe they are done. But I don’t need stories on the front page to tell me that. I don’t need our lead writer voting on polls exclaiming that the team has blown the season. It just doesn’t seem like a lot of these guys want to be wrong in their dire predictions. Like it’ll be an “I told you so” moment if the Sox miss out on the playoffs, and we were fools for ever thinking they had a chance. Is it too much to ask for something other than gloom and doom? I don’t want to read articles on why the team will definitely win the World Series this year—that’s just another side of the same coin. I think we can have reasonable discussion without eliminating either possibility, and again, when one possibility hinges on a volcanic eruption (if only jokingly), the author is eliminating it. All I’m saying is I would prefer to read something else on the front page of a blog dedicated to this team.

Oh, if a man tried to take his time on earth, and prove before he died
What one man's life could be worth--oh, I wonder what would happen to this world.

by LegendaryTadpole on Aug 30, 2010 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wanting to read a fair and balanced article isn't asking for a lot.

 I don’t think you can ignore negativity, we are in a bad situation, but a little light/hope isn’t a bad thing.

I asked about Cash because I wanted to see the level of optimism you were expecting.

We all have opinions, to you it’s insane to think Okajima won’t implode, the next guy might love Oki, remember the pitcher he use to be and have faith and hope in him.

The next guy might have faith and hope that the front office got Cash because they think he is a good catcher he just isn’t living up to what he can be and will turn it around.

You think it’s ludicrous but possible we make the playoffs, others think it’s insane and not possible.

The real point is it’s all personal opinion and no one is right or wrong when it comes to what they believe.

It’s unfair to ask others to believe how you believe because you think it’s possible, just like it would be unfair for me to ask you to think Okajima won’t implode.

But I agree for entertainment value, I’d prefer a little more positivity in the posts on the front page.

by ruktuim on Aug 30, 2010 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's true, it's all opinion.

I kinda rambled there and was just expressing my stream-of-consciousness feelings. I’m glad you read through and agreed with that last point of mine. I don’t expect people to change their opinions of the team, but I’d like to know I’m not the only optimistic one, you know?

Oh, if a man tried to take his time on earth, and prove before he died
What one man's life could be worth--oh, I wonder what would happen to this world.

by LegendaryTadpole on Aug 30, 2010 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

I am proud of the way this patched together, injury riddled team has fought all year long. So I will keep watching, but it looks like this won’t be the year to catch Tampa or New York. Go Rays!

by gojohn99 on Aug 30, 2010 10:08 AM EDT up reply actions  

Because only bandwagon fans care only when the playoffs are on the line

Real fans can still be interested to see what this year’s players may be able to offer next year.

by RSNexile on Aug 30, 2010 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

how 'bouy them Patriots?

….Bruins, anyone?

Excited to see Seguin skate.

by delta on Aug 30, 2010 8:37 AM EDT via mobile reply actions  

*’bout

man, I love cell phone typos.

by delta on Aug 30, 2010 8:38 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

yeah

But its not hockey season its baseball season

2010 Red Sox Playoffs.... We Can Do It!
"That place was for diehard sports fans. I only follow my team when they're in the playoffs" - Homer Simpson
Join the Lacrosse community The Lacrosse Blog

by bestbostonsports on Aug 30, 2010 8:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

….and that season is pretty much over.

it’s technically football season too

by delta on Aug 30, 2010 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions  

what i think you're missing is....

you can put a fork in em. it’s over.

henceforth, i’m giving my attention to the Pats and Bruins; which is why i posted that.

by delta on Aug 30, 2010 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions  

I don't think its over yet - but its close.

Seasons have ended on far stranger notes than what the Sox would need at this point to still make the playoffs. So making the playoffs isn’t yet in the need-a-complete-miracle realm yet.

But it is standing on the highly-improbable edge.

I will say, that one thing I won’t miss when this season IS over is how the game threads have degenerated.

They are pretty much dominated by a few folks who only seem to be there to show their own coolness by viciously trashing players or management every time some play doesn’t go our way. I’m not going to say they aren’t entitled to their opinions. But my opinion is that the Game Threads are not so much fun right now.

There seems to be a complete loss of perspective in some fans. If we had started the season with Cameron, Ellsbury, Pedroia, Youkilis, V-Mart, Varitek & Beckett all on the DL, knowing some or all wouldn’t come back until different points well into the season then what would your expectations of this season have been? If we had started the season knowing that significant playing time was going to go to names like Hermida, Patterson, Hall, Cash, Brown, etc., etc.?

I suspect most at that point would have said – “Gee, if we manage a .500 record, Tito will have done a fantastic job!”

Lately, when I monitor the game threads, all I seem to see is how he must be a freakin’ idiot who doesn’t know a damn thing about how to manage a baseball team – at least not compared to the geniuses on OTM.

Here’s a clue: Just because you don’t understand why Tito did or did not make a particular pitcher substitution doesn’t mean you are a genius and he’s an idiot. There’s a chance – yes, its true – that he may have information that you don’t. His information may be wrong, or the odds he’s playing may not pan out. Or maybe he just guessed wrong. But take a step back and ask yourself who has the better baseball pedigree: Yourself, “Mr SBN blogger”, or Terry Francona? Who looks more credible over the long haul? The guy’s certainly not perfect, but he’s hardly an idiot when it comes to baseball.

And many of the comments about players are even more whacked-out and nonsensical. Some are downright vicious.

I think it is the viciousness in the end that has turned me off.

I know. I know – no one is forcing me to read the game threads. Still they used to be fun. Why can’t they still be?

Frustration is real and a fair emotion to be feeling. But folks should exercise a little restraint and control. Me too. I know I’ve vented with a couple of choice four-letter words onto OTM. But I kinda have regretted it and I think I have also tried to not direct anything vicious at anyone.

by mmmmm on Aug 30, 2010 10:54 AM EDT reply actions   1 recs

Well said.

Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.

@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard

by Bloggy on Aug 30, 2010 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

Definitely well said.

It seems like everyone just wants to complain, when in reality, we had a pretty great season (and the end will be just as great whether or not we make it to the playoffs). The point of being a fan shouldn’t be to rip every guy who steps onto the field (or into the dugout, in Tito’s case). We’re Red Sox fans, not Eagles fans. Hopefully, some people will take a deep breath and start having more fun watching 1) our beloved Sox and 2) baseball in general.

by travben85 on Aug 30, 2010 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

+1...game threads have been Raylike but I guess everyone is entitled to express their opinion.

The odds are highly against us having a postseason…1 in 10 chance…we just don’t seem to have the guns to battle into the playoffs nevermind deep into the playoffs.

Being faithful…defy all odds and make it the greatest September baseball of all time.

by went9 on Aug 30, 2010 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

100% agree.

Haven’t been in a gamethread in a while, there’s just no point.

by ThePanda on Aug 30, 2010 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Let me examine this from a slightly different angle...
But take a step back and ask yourself who has the better baseball pedigree: Yourself, "Mr SBN blogger", or Joe Morgan? Who looks more credible over the long haul? The guy’s certainly not perfect, but he’s hardly an idiot when it comes to baseball.

USG

by Ben Buchanan on Aug 30, 2010 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

LOL

Good point.

Terrifying thought : Has Morgan ever been in the position of actually managing a team (at any level)?

by mmmmm on Aug 30, 2010 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

well

Joe Morgan, I’m sure, was a better baseball player than anyone here ever has been or will be, but has about the analytical capabilities and eloquence of a drunk squirrel.

by wolf9309 on Aug 30, 2010 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Those who cannot play any longer, teach

Those who cannot teach, annoy the shit out of America on national TV.

"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.

by Rogue Nine on Aug 30, 2010 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agree

Morgan gets a bad rap, and he has improved. The slide step thing is not something that many casual fans even know about. Remember, he is broadcasting to a nationwide audience, not just seamheads, so he has to be a bit more explanitory.

by Scoop1981 on Aug 30, 2010 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree

I never commented much during the game threads, but I used to read them and chime in now and then. I stopped because it seemed to have just denigrated into fights and bitching.

by brogshan on Aug 30, 2010 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree personal attacks on management or players gets old and can be downright vicious....however
all I seem to see is how he must be a freakin’ idiot who doesn’t know a damn thing about how to manage a baseball team – at least not compared to the geniuses on OTM.

Here’s a clue: Just because you don’t understand why Tito did or did not make a particular pitcher substitution doesn’t mean you are a genius and he’s an idiot. There’s a chance – yes, its true – that he may have information that you don’t. His information may be wrong, or the odds he’s playing may not pan out. Or maybe he just guessed wrong. But take a step back and ask yourself who has the better baseball pedigree: Yourself, "Mr SBN blogger", or Terry Francona? Who looks more credible over the long haul? The guy’s certainly not perfect, but he’s hardly an idiot when it comes to baseball.

If your don’t want people questioning and commenting on the management of the team because all us “MR SBN Bloggers” are too stupid to understand the great mind of Terry Francona, isn’t that the point of blogs like this?

The idea is amateur analysis of games, players, stats, management calls, trades, ect. If you want expert opinions a game thread isn’t the best place to get them. People have fun 2nd guessing everything, call out bad trades, ect. Yes they aren’t expects, they aren’t as informed as the people involved in game itself, but what’s left if you take that away? Do we all sit around and each take turns saying….“I like baseball”, “Wow that ball went far”, "good hit.

I feel if you want to give people shit, give people shit because you don’t agree with the way they express themselves, not because they aren’t smart enough to have an opinion.

Maybe it’s done out of concern for the feelings of those you don’t agree with and if that’s the intent I understand.

But everyone is being so vague about “a few folks” or “the negative commentators”. To me it’s weird, if you have a problem with the posting style of a group of members, wouldn’t it be better to comment on it in a direct, polite and constructive way?

It probably won’t change anything but in my mind it’s more helpful and less, well weird than skating around issue and making posts about who the negative people are killing the game threads..

by ruktuim on Aug 30, 2010 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

if you have a problem with the posting style of a group of members, wouldn’t it be better to comment on it in a direct, polite and constructive way?

This has been done. It gets met, most often, with vitriol.

Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.

@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard

by Bloggy on Aug 30, 2010 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's say it's a normal defense mechanism of a person to not reply kindly to criticism.

 I’ve never been a fan of being vague when talking about others.

Because to be honest, I’m not entirely sure who people mean when they say, “a few” or “the negative crowd”, ect…

It leads to questions like, what qualifies you as one of those few….am I a negative commenter when I comment in the game thread….I question Tito….ect..

by ruktuim on Aug 30, 2010 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

What Bloggy said.

I’m sorry ruktuim, I understand what you are asking, but I just don’t see the point of having to name names and call out people. On the internet, that is simply a recipe for a flamefest. I don’t have the energy for that sort of thing. I’ve been on the ‘nets for over 2 decades and just don’t wan’t to go there.

I think my post, while maybe not ‘direct’ enough, makes a polite and constructive distinction between ‘questioning and commenting on the management’ and viciously attacking. They are not the same thing.

Ultimately I don’t really have a big problem with any single individual. Many of the folks who have been downright nasty are folks who’s posts I generally like reading – but lately it seems like there is a shared culture of viciousness brewing that has somewhere along the line crossed my personal comfort threshold. I’m not even certain where that line was when it was crossed, but it has definitely gone over it for me. Maybe not for anybody else. Maybe not for you.

I’m not even going to insist that my personal comfort threshold is the right one. I’m just expressing my opinion that the game thread’s are not a lot of fun for me personally lately and letting folks know why. If folks don’t care what is comfortable for me – that’s OK. If they do, that’s cool.

by mmmmm on Aug 30, 2010 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

I absolutely respect your reservation when it comes to, "naming names". I wasn't only referring to your post, in general I've read a number of posts with the same sentiment as your own.

I do agree it would lead to a meaningless internet fight that simply makes all those involved look silly.

If your comfort level has been passed, you have the right to say you don’t like the way things are going and that you won’t participate in the future due to it.

I’m not attacking you in anyway, I enjoyed reading your post. I enjoyed writing my reply, it’s all for the sake of fun for myself.

When I read your post, I interpreted it as your criticizing people who questioning and disagreeing with management, not the way they were doing it. I was interested to hear if my interpretation if it was correct or not.

by ruktuim on Aug 30, 2010 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

I have an idea

We build a cloning machine. We clone the 2008 Mets twice, insert them into the Rays and Yankees organizations, and they will easily choke. Win Win situation.

by MikeAtBU on Aug 30, 2010 1:37 PM EDT reply actions  

No no, their 2008 selves. The hurt ones.

"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.

by Rogue Nine on Aug 30, 2010 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wait no, not the hurt ones, that was last year, 2008 was when they choked up a rather large lead in the standings in a month.

"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.

by Rogue Nine on Aug 30, 2010 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed, except...

Yes, the Sox are finally done, but I don’t think the starting pitching after Lester is bad. In fact, starting pitcing has kept the Sox in this race. This was evident in Tampa. Lester and Bucholz were excellent and Lackey was OK. The problem is that the team is finally feeling the effects of a depleted lineup and thin bullpen.
Sure, we all like Nava, Kalish, etc., but they simply cannot make up for the losses of Youk, Pedroia and Ellsbury, especially against a good team like the Rays. This lineup simply cannot string enough hits together to come up with a big inning.
The Saturday heartbreaker is a perfect example of the effects of a thin bullpen. Francona clearly did not want to use both Bard and Papplebon to close out the game in the 8th and 9th innings, so he tried to milk the 8th inning out of Bucholz.. He needs another dependable, live arm out there and this has been the case the entire season.

by Scoop1981 on Aug 30, 2010 1:46 PM EDT reply actions  

That's a fair point.

If we had a stronger bullpen, that would definitely change the way Francona managed both Saturday and Sunday’s games.

Through the first 18 or so innings of the series, I think we had allowed the Rays just 8 hits.

And if the offense didn’t have so many subs, maybe we manage just one or two more key hits on Saturday and Sunday – which would have made a huge difference.

Sometimes you also have to give credit to the other team’s players.

by mmmmm on Aug 30, 2010 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well, if it wasn't for this season

We’d probably not see a Nava grand slam, Lowrie, Kevin Cash…., Darnell McDonald, the likes of Eric Patterson……

Well, now this sounds depressing.

by n0va on Aug 30, 2010 3:37 PM EDT reply actions  

Mazz just posted a column that said that 2011 looks worse than 2010.

How’s that?

Lester, Beckett and Lackey should project to better seasons than this one. Buck should step back some, but the correction from his ’10 fortuitiveness should be balanced out with his natural progression. Dice is an enigma, he could actually even be better than ’10.

Youk, Pedey and Ells back from injury. Scoot/Lowrie @ short, a healthy Cam can’t produce less than he has. JDD should be able to produce the same numbers he always does.

I project they sign 2 of the 3 big FA’s, Papi/VMart/Beltre. Fill the hole internally with a combo of Lars/Salty/Lowrie or something like that.

Last year of Bard and Papelbon, so that’s good. The rest of the bullpen HAS to be better.

And I don’t think the Yanks or the Rays are better next year, probably precipitiously worse for both.

I’m expecting more than 95 wins in ’11 and a division title. Is that wrong?

by cds7c on Aug 30, 2010 4:02 PM EDT reply actions  

See, now THAT'S pessimism for pessimism's sake.

But I object to being called a “negative commenter” or a “complainer” or somehow unworthy of being a fan of this team (or this blog) simply because I do not believe they have performed well enough to be in the playoffs. I love the Red Sox, and I will always hope for their success, but this just isn’t the year. No, they haven’t been eliminated yet, and I supposed that volcano/zombie scenario could work out, but I’ve reached the point of actually preferring to see other, better teams make the playoffs in their place. Somebody needs to take down the Yankees.

"If your happiness depends on Boston winning or losing, you have to get a life." Manny Somebody-or-other

by Tessie's Dad on Aug 30, 2010 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

The wins depends largely I think on which 2 of 3 we re-sign.

I think signing Beltre and VMart present us with the best chance. VMart and Ortiz as the next most likely and Ortiz and Beltre as the least likely pairing to get us there. The reasoning is that there will be a huge drop of production at the Catcher spot if we don’t re-sign VMart, we don’t know anything about Salty. Beltre can be more easily replaced through a 1B or another 3B and anyone can DH really.

"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.

by Rogue Nine on Aug 30, 2010 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Concur.

I hope this season has really taught people just how valuable it is to have a Catcher who can hit (or conversely, how painful it is when you don’t have one).

by mmmmm on Aug 30, 2010 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Exactly

Which is why really we can’t afford to NOT sign VMart, even if it’s risky towards the end depending on what his position is. Anything else is going to be a big step down. Getting Napoli, as unlikely as that may be would help a lot. And like I said before elsewhere, having all these young guys on their way up lets us take a few risks. When JD Drew’s contract is replaced by say Reddick on a rookie salary and Cameron by Kalish.

"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.

by Rogue Nine on Aug 30, 2010 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

VMart should be signed regardless

I don’t care if we “overpay” for him, catcher is a premium offensive position. Plus his defense has improved (although it’s still not great). I’d love to see Theo and Co give him less years with more money, even with an option or two. That could help minimize the risk as he ages.

by travben85 on Aug 30, 2010 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah

They look good next year.
I let Beltre walk, resign Martinez.
Lowrie or Navarro at 3B next year?

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by bestbostonsports on Aug 30, 2010 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think it would have to be Lowrie.

Then you have Adrian as a possible FA the next year or RIzzo. Yes this would require moving Youk to 3B. Yes, it’s not the optimal move. Show me a better option. We have Vitek and WMB at 3B currently in the minors, but I’m not sure we can count on either ever making the bigs, or being a 3B at all.

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by BoldandBrash on Aug 30, 2010 6:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think a better option is Beltre

obviously depends on his price, but I think it is in Youk’s best interest to remain at first base, and I think we’ll be hard-pressed to find a better third baseman in the next few years.

by wolf9309 on Aug 30, 2010 10:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think so too

Lowrie’s bat profiles great at SS, 3B it’s more pedestrian and we don’t really have a good fix on how his 3B defense is.

"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.

by Rogue Nine on Aug 30, 2010 11:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

It depends on the price and the alternatives.

They are going to spend up to $N dollars on whatever they can get from the trio of V-Mart, Beltre & Ortiz. If they can sign all three, then that would be optimal for next year’s offensive lineup. If they can’t, then they have to try to maximize the overall offense with just two.

For example, even though Lowrie is a step down in offense from Beltre at 3B, retaining Ortiz might be a bigger upgrade over whatever DH alternative they end up with if they Signed Beltre and not Ortiz.

So the question becomes what is the marginal difference in offense provided by Beltre over Lowrie versus Ortiz over XXXX? Then what is the $$ difference between signing VMart+Beltre versus VMart+Ortiz?

Defensively, Lowrie’s probably close enough to Beltre that that probably wouldn’t be big issue in that comparison.

by mmmmm on Aug 31, 2010 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

and then of course the question is

how big a step down offensively will 2011-2013 (or 14) Beltre be compared to 2010 Beltre.

FWIW, I think Lowrie’s bat profiles very well at third if he is close to his current number or the numbers he put up in his trek through the minors. It just profiles as one of the best at shortstop.

by wolf9309 on Aug 31, 2010 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

"Our starting rotation beyond Lester is questionable."

You’ve lost your damn mind in the process of throwing out this team and all the bathwater around it. What is this doing on the front page?

by El Destruyo on Aug 30, 2010 4:59 PM EDT reply actions  

well Buchholz has been absolutely awesome and Matsuzaka has had a pretty good year apart from the DL stints

Becketts been terrible, Lackey’s been a huge disappointment, and Wakefield seems to be trying to reach his age in ERA.

It’s a bunch of guys who in theory should be absolutely dominant and a fantastic starting rotation. Hopefully in 2011, Beckett and Lackey can return to form, but it hasn’t been all it was cracked up to be.

by wolf9309 on Aug 30, 2010 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think he's questioning Buchholz's peripherals and his ability to continue this success.

Not too inflammatory a statement, especially considering Matsuzaka, Beckett, and Lackey all seem a lot more than questionable at this point.

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by LegendaryTadpole on Aug 30, 2010 7:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Clarification

This is what I meant: Buchholz is our ace, Lester is the #2, and everyone after that is questionable. I took it for granted that Buchholz is not in question – this season at least, he’s been a revelation. I’m sorry if my wording wasn’t clear.

Adrian Beltre is why we can't have healthy outfielders.

by 0157H7 on Aug 30, 2010 10:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

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