Kevin Youkilis to the Disabled List, Mike Lowell Activated. Youkilis Might Need Surgery
by Ben Buchanan on Aug 3, 2010 4:43 PM EDT
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PrintUPDATE: The various beat writers have reported that Terry Francona confirms a tear of the muscle in Youkilis' thumb. The details of the injury, however, are more confusing.
There’s certainly some gray area here. He has a muscle tear that we quite frankly don’t know the extent of.
Generally the story is that they're hoping it heals up with two weeks rest, but if it doesn't they're going to need to perform surgery, which would be it for Youkilis this season. If the team falls further out of the playoff race, the organization may be very hesitant to risk anything with regards to Youkilis' future by having him play out the remainder of the year.
UPDATE: 98.5 The Sports Hub is reporting that Youkilis' injury might be a torn muscle at the base of his thumb, which would require season ending surgery.
Kevin Youkilis has been placed on the disabled list after injuring his right thumb in last night's game against the Indians. Mike Lowell will be activated and start tonight's game at first base.
Youkilis came out of yesterday's game in the third inning after getting jammed on a swing. He was in visible pain running down the line and was trying to stretch out his thumb for the remainder of the inning.
Lowell has been raking in Triple-A Pawtucket, batting .500/.500/1.227 with four home runs in 22 at bats. The Red Sox attempted to trade him for the deadline, even looking into deals with the Yankees, but could not find a fit for Lowell.
Youkilis, who has been the team's best offensive player all year, joins a long list of Red Sox who have spent time on the disabled list this year. There is no word on how long he will be out.
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I feel bad for all you people
That place was for diehard sports fans. I only follow my team when they're in the playoffs" - Homer Simpson
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by bestbostonsports on Aug 3, 2010 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions
wow
mr.negitive.
If you dont want to write about them any more, Im available
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by bestbostonsports on Aug 3, 2010 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm not blindly positive
look, 6.5 is very makupable.
Pedroia and Ells will be back, pitching has been great, Youk culd be back in 15 days, Yankees are skidding a bit.
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by bestbostonsports on Aug 3, 2010 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions
6.5 requires us to play a full tenth better.
So a .650 record compared to a .550 record. Though it’s unlikely the Yankees or Rays will play down to that, even.
This with no bullpen, and now missing our best offensive player for at least a quarter of the games if not the whole season. Pedroia will still miss a few more. Not to mention that we have a fairly difficult schedule compared to the competition, who upgraded at the deadline more than we did.
USG
It doesn't, really.
Because we also have to consider that Pedroia and Ellsbury likely won’t return at full strength, like how it’s taking V-Mart time to get into things. And how we’ve barely been beating bad competition, Lackey just took a dump on what had looked like a resurgence.
USG
Wow, you are really negitive about nothing
Those teams are due for a cold spell, and the Sox have been playing better.
Cheer up a bit, it will make your day better
That place was for diehard sports fans. I only follow my team when they're in the playoffs" - Homer Simpson
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by bestbostonsports on Aug 3, 2010 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions
This is just hilarious.
They have lost their main offensive producer. This shit is over.
I love Lester and Pedroia!!! ITS MAN LOVE!
then why are you still watching the games?
Go do something that will make you happy
That place was for diehard sports fans. I only follow my team when they're in the playoffs" - Homer Simpson
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by bestbostonsports on Aug 3, 2010 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Congrats
so am I, except I dont give up in the middle of a race
That place was for diehard sports fans. I only follow my team when they're in the playoffs" - Homer Simpson
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by bestbostonsports on Aug 3, 2010 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions
It's not blind faith
It;s reality.
The Red Sox are still in the race.
am I not correct?
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by bestbostonsports on Aug 3, 2010 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions
When were we mathamaticly eliminated?
I must have missed that
That place was for diehard sports fans. I only follow my team when they're in the playoffs" - Homer Simpson
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by bestbostonsports on Aug 3, 2010 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions
When were we realistically eliminated?
August 3, 1:45 pm.
If I was your math homework I'd be really hard and you'd be doing me on your desk.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
Right, so you should go to Camden Chat and start calling out all the O's fans for giving up early.
USG
Different story
That place was for diehard sports fans. I only follow my team when they're in the playoffs" - Homer Simpson
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by bestbostonsports on Aug 3, 2010 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions
I use this comment as proof of your delusional nature.
Nothing? Youkilis is out for 15 days, possibly the season, and it’s “nothing”
USG
He'll be back in 15 days possibly
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by bestbostonsports on Aug 3, 2010 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions
I doubt that.
“But Sox had concerns that if Youkilis tried to play thru, muscle could tear from the bone, meaning complex surgery w/career implications”
I love Lester and Pedroia!!! ITS MAN LOVE!
If he ever plays again?
I dont see what you are getting at
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by bestbostonsports on Aug 3, 2010 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions
oh, ok
I was confused there
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by bestbostonsports on Aug 3, 2010 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions
If we don't take 3 out of 4 from the Yanks this weekend
and at least 2 out of 3 from the Indians, then we’re done. For now, there’s still some realistic hope, if not expectation.
Yup, season over.
At least now the holdouts will see how bad Mike Lowell is.
Worst part is that if this happens last week we could have been sellers and got some good returns.
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I wouldn't trade Beltre.
I’d have seen what we could get for VMart. Decent chance we get better than the picks we would get (though it is a great draft).
I think we might have been able to pickup a few nice pieces here and there for guys like Okajima, Delcarmen, Bill Hall, maybe even Pap… the prices for relievers were crazy. If we had some interesting arms I feel Theo could have gotten some good value for us there. Usually a strong point for him.
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We couldn't get any pieces for Okajima or Delcarmen, I'd guess.
Hall maybe, given the return Tejada got. And Papelbon we can’t trade until we know we have someone beyond just Bard in the pen next year. Definitely more of an offseason trade than mid-season.
USG
Maybe.
I think once you’re out of it, you say screw the pen. At this point we’re already looking at a complete overhaul of the relief staff in the offseason anyway. Trading a guy like Pap now when no one is willing to part with relievers could mean a really juicy return.
Its not that I necessarily think they would have gotten something good… I’m just disappointed they didn’t get a chance to explore it. I trust in Theo to pull off something brilliant.
Bullpen Banter
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Well, it depends on if people want Papelbon more than Scott Downs.
Downs didn’t bring in a blue chip prospect, keep in mind. They were asking that, and nobody bit.
USG
Sure...
You’re right, and nothing is a lock. Especially since I’m comparing to trades that didn’t happen.
I still can’t help but wonder what Theo could do if he went into trade mode. I wouldn’t mind some of the David Wells for George Kottaras trades this year, you know?
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That's the problem.
We didn’t try(based upon rumors), so we will never know if we could have gotten anything good. I just wanted to try and see if another another team would make a stupid deal.
"If I was being paid $30,000 dollars a year, the very least I could do was hit .400."- Ted Williams
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Twitter: @BoldandBrash
The only thing we know from rumors is that nothing got close to a deal.
We’re obviously not gonna shop them hard because their value will plummet. We probably quietly asked around and then called it a day when nobody was serious enough.
USG
And hell
I’d argue that what we gave up for Martinez isn’t as good as the two draft picks. Not based on what we want.
USG
Yeah this is the last straw
We took a huge hit when Pedey and VMart went out, and neither are as good as Youk is. I don’t think we can come back from this unless Lowell can maintain his 1.700+ OPS.
Oh well.
Can’t blame it on anyone though as much as some would like to. There was no way to know that Scutaro, Beltre and Drew (so far) would be the only players on the diamond to not see the DL so far or that Lester and Lackey would be the only healthy SPs. If we had half the injuries we ended up having, we’re right there with the Rays and Yanks, it’s a miracle we ended up this close given what’s occurred this year.
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
Hardly needs to maintain an OPS 725 points over what Youk had...
With Kalish and Lowrie in the mix, Nava back, and Ellsbury and Pedroia on the verge of returning, I still think we may well be two days away from the best team we’ve seen in a month or two.
I'm still resolutely unwilling to call it over
until we see if Lowell is as bad as he looked earlier in the year, which I doubt with regular at bats.
tend to agree
Loosing Youk sucks.
But if Lowell can at least post a ~.750ish OPS while covering 1B, our offense overall should still be OK.
Defensively, I don’t expect Lowell to be anywhere as good as Youk, but he should at least be adequate.
That still would leave the bullpen and the lack of Pedroia at 2B as our biggest problems. So things haven’t changed all that much.
So i’m not going to give it up just yet either. I’ll see how things look in 2 weeks. THEN – I may shoot myself to end the pain. But no earlier than that.
This season has been a joke
how can one team have this much bad luck in one year
2006 was bad,
But 2006 was also one of those years where the team was nowhere as good, really, as it started. Take a look at our rotation then, factoring the fact that this was Josh Beckett’s “I think I’ll only throw fastballs” season, and your memory might be jogged.
As for this season, it started horribly, and got thrown completely off-track, but if we stayed healthy (not even including Cameron and Ellsbury in the discussion….in fact, forget Beckett’s problems too, since the team was even working its way through Wakefield), we coulda been special. Now I’m halfway hoping for an Indians split and a Yankees sweep, so I don’t have to carry false hopes all the way through August.
(I’d settle for six of our next seven though; if it’s going to be false hope, let it be unadulterated.)
Oh, this is just freaking dandy.
The Globe is posting that Beckett “is 2-4, 6.56 against Cleveland in his career but these are not the Indians he used to face.”
No Youk
No Drew
No Ellsbury
No Cameron
No Pedroia
These are not the Red Sox they’re used to facing, either.
I want to
put in a petition for a new rule.
Please, poitive attitude. Its really getting to me all the negitivity
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by bestbostonsports on Aug 3, 2010 4:43 PM EDT reply actions
Its not as bad as you make it to be
But I guess it is tje mature of Boston fans
That place was for diehard sports fans. I only follow my team when they're in the playoffs" - Homer Simpson
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by bestbostonsports on Aug 3, 2010 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Call it even?
I may be slihtly overpositive but that is beacuse I like to enjoy watching the Red Sox.
To give up anything is silly.
That place was for diehard sports fans. I only follow my team when they're in the playoffs" - Homer Simpson
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by bestbostonsports on Aug 3, 2010 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't understand people who talk like this.
“Why be negative when there’s nothing to gain? Everyone be positive regardless of reality.”
Honestly, it’s impossible to understand. It’s the death of real analysis in the face of, what, an ignorance is bliss philosophy?
USG
No
Im just saying they are still in it, calm down a bit
That place was for diehard sports fans. I only follow my team when they're in the playoffs" - Homer Simpson
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by bestbostonsports on Aug 3, 2010 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions
But they aren't in it.
That’s that.
If I was your math homework I'd be really hard and you'd be doing me on your desk.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
Give more credit
These guys have alot of heart, and that’s the one thing you guys are not taking into account. They are all professionals, and extreme competitor’s. I don’t see them folding the tents up to go home, why should we. So what, if we are barely beating not that great of teams, beating is the key. Taking 2 games from detroit late showed fight and character. Do they have enough in the tank to catch the leaders? I don’t know, but I for one am still positive that they will make a nice run for it, and if they don’t make it, I atleast want them showing spirit and desire all the way. So- go ahead, start packing up- I’m going to hang out here and believe.
If ya don't like the overall feeling just go away please.
This is negative! VERY NEGATIVE!
I love Lester and Pedroia!!! ITS MAN LOVE!
Go away?
I dont think I will.
Things are not too bad
That place was for diehard sports fans. I only follow my team when they're in the playoffs" - Homer Simpson
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by bestbostonsports on Aug 3, 2010 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions
You know I've been pretty positive and calling out the naysayers this year
But I mean, how much is too much?
We took a big nosedive at the end of June into this month when VMart and Pedrioa hit the DL, at some point the surprising rise of Darnell and Nava just won’t be enough. Maybe Kalish and Lowrie and Lowell can provide the difference but losing Youk is a giant hit with 60 games left and him missing at least a quarter of them during a time in which we need to win 10% more games than anyone else. Rays and Yanks have played good ball, we’d have to play damn near .700 ball in order to match them.
There comes a time when you’re out of it, even if the math tells you that you have a chance, the chance is just too slim. Our chance to beat the math was Youkilis and we do not have him for the foreseeable future.
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
Muscle tear at base of Youkilis' thumb. Return after 15 days possible. Surgery also possible. Francona says doctors are "somewhat perplexed."
Sounds bad.
I love Lester and Pedroia!!! ITS MAN LOVE!
Jack hannahan time?
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by bestbostonsports on Aug 3, 2010 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions
agreed
That place was for diehard sports fans. I only follow my team when they're in the playoffs" - Homer Simpson
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by bestbostonsports on Aug 3, 2010 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions
It was a joke
That place was for diehard sports fans. I only follow my team when they're in the playoffs" - Homer Simpson
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by bestbostonsports on Aug 3, 2010 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions
our doctors suck anyhow
That place was for diehard sports fans. I only follow my team when they're in the playoffs" - Homer Simpson
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by bestbostonsports on Aug 3, 2010 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Pretty much nobody seems to think that
except Scott Boras in his arbitration hearing. In any case, lets hope they don’t, as they’ll be treating Youk.
yeah
That’s true
That place was for diehard sports fans. I only follow my team when they're in the playoffs" - Homer Simpson
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by bestbostonsports on Aug 3, 2010 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions
"As for Ellsbury, reports are great, and it sounds as if it's a matter of him saying (after talking with med staff) that he's ready."
So that probably means awhile for Ells….
I love Lester and Pedroia!!! ITS MAN LOVE!
if I were him at this point I'd stay out as long as I could
the season is over no reason to risj further injury-same for Pedroia
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Pedroia will play the second he can cause he is a real man.
I love Lester and Pedroia!!! ITS MAN LOVE!
beacuse we need him in this race
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by bestbostonsports on Aug 3, 2010 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions
THERE IS NO RACE-THE SEASON IS OVER
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when were we matchamaticly eliminated?
That place was for diehard sports fans. I only follow my team when they're in the playoffs" - Homer Simpson
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by bestbostonsports on Aug 3, 2010 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions
6.5 game deficit
Plus the loss of a perennial MVP candidate seems to add up to a two-horse race in the East to me.
I can see am I not going to win this arguement
you have your belifs, i have mine
That place was for diehard sports fans. I only follow my team when they're in the playoffs" - Homer Simpson
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by bestbostonsports on Aug 3, 2010 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions
YOU ARE SO ANNOYING
AND WRONG ABOUT EVERYTHING IN THE WORLD RELATED TO BOSTON RED SOX BASEBALL, MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL, AND EVERYTHING ELSE ON THE PLANET.
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by gizmosandy on Aug 3, 2010 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
um, ok
That place was for diehard sports fans. I only follow my team when they're in the playoffs" - Homer Simpson
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by bestbostonsports on Aug 3, 2010 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions
+1
Without the caps though.
If I was your math homework I'd be really hard and you'd be doing me on your desk.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
+1
this isn’t positivity, or even false positivity you’re spreading, BBS, it’s denial. miracles could happen, sure, but please just let us @*#)ing wallow right now, being as it’s time to wallow.
LOL
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by bestbostonsports on Aug 3, 2010 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm going to look for the interview I saw a day or two ago
where he said he felt pretty much as ready as he was going to and was just waiting for the Sox medical staff to OK him
Ramos for Papelbon
white sox could have gave us prospects for Victor
Beltre could have brought a nice return
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??????
This makes zero sense.
If the Red Sox are out, the Twins may as well be too
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by bestbostonsports on Aug 3, 2010 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions
please I beg you
if your website is so good, I beg you to leave here you are so freaking annoying.
At least when I’m annoying it’s schtick.
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my website and this disscussion have nothing to do with each other
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by bestbostonsports on Aug 3, 2010 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions
you are either:
1) the lousiest troll ever
2) the dumbest human being that ever posted on this site
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I am no troll
Why would I troll my own team?
That place was for diehard sports fans. I only follow my team when they're in the playoffs" - Homer Simpson
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by bestbostonsports on Aug 3, 2010 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions
a grown man starving for attention?
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um,
woman, and no
That place was for diehard sports fans. I only follow my team when they're in the playoffs" - Homer Simpson
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by bestbostonsports on Aug 3, 2010 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions
ahh
a pink hat, now it all makes sense
The certified ambassador of all things good and great, here at OTM.
And I'm fairly sure you know I'm right Ben
but cannot say that here.
The certified ambassador of all things good and great, here at OTM.
Actually, I'd say as far as Pink Hat is concerned, BBS doesn't seem to fit the bill.
Pink Hats were gone after we stunk up April.
USG
Quit that sandy.
Positive thoughts aren’t a bad thing, even if it is annoying, lashing out at her because of that, well that is a bad thing.
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
There is a difference
but anything can happen
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by bestbostonsports on Aug 3, 2010 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions
whatever, i told you Im done
Im getting no where with this, and I dont want to risk anything
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by bestbostonsports on Aug 3, 2010 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions
You're getting nowhere because you're just stating "I believe" over and over again
While making nonsense arguments like “If the Sox are out of it, then the Twins are out of it!” and spitting truisms like “Not out of it until we’re mathematically eliminated” while ignoring that the Orioles still have an E# of 24.
USG
He does kinda have a point.
We need a catcher and Ramos is supposed to be God on earth.
"If I was being paid $30,000 dollars a year, the very least I could do was hit .400."- Ted Williams
I hate Hermida
Twitter: @BoldandBrash
Ramos for Papelbon? Were they offering?
‘Cause for the Twins, Papelbon’s extra millions and millions of dollars is a legit concern.
White Sox and team X would have to have ponied up serious blue chips to compensate for the Red Sox’ buying power in the draft. Consider that we’re likely to come away with Ranaudo from this year’s compensation round.
USG
if we dont offer paps Arbitration we dont get compensation right?
So we gonna keep a soso reliever around for 10-12M another year?
by German Red Sox Fan on Aug 3, 2010 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions
wait wait, confusion
this is a different arbitration than that. This is the type of arbitration where they are under team control their first 6 years but get to go through arbitration for their salary after the first three (usually). So we have the choice of either not tendering him a contract or going through the arbitration process (or agreeing on a deal beforehand. Whole different process.
Also, like alskor said, he’s not a so-so reliever. A so-so-reliever is Ramirez. Or maybe Atchison, at the peak of so-so relievers.
I think he means pay him next year to get compensation in '12.
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Aug 4, 2010 12:26 AM EDT up reply actions
Ok let me answer this point by point.
1. Yeah I’m not an expert on the complex MLB arbitration rules. So the Sox have 2 options offering Papelbon arbitration or no tendering him right? So if they are not tendering him a contract they get no cempensation whatsoever?
2. Papelbon being a “so-so” reliever. My own personal funky definition: Top 10 reliever equals elite, top 50 good, everbody is at best “so-so” after that. If I rank all RP by xFIP Papelbon is on place 83 with a 4.29 xFIP. Doesnt “so-so” mean average or did i misuse the term? At this point in his career Paps is an average reliever in my eyes. He is getting lucky thats why his ERA is at 2.98.
3. So the initial question was: Is it a good decision to pay a guy, who thusfar has accumulated 0.3 WAR this season, 10-12M next year just to get picks in ‘12? He might not even be the closer next season, so maybe he will pitch in less critical situations, which, if I’m not mistaken, furthermore affects his WAR negativly. Let him be a 0.5 WAR pitcher next year than the Sox are allready overpaying him roughly 8M when he “only” makes 10M next season.
4. Are we really sure he will be a type A free agent by the end of ’11? Let his ERA be around his xFIP is that still enough to give him type A? I dont know which stats Elias is using to determine the different types of free agents
by German Red Sox Fan on Aug 4, 2010 4:51 AM EDT up reply actions
some good points, for the record, the stats they use for determining compensation are
•RP: Total games (total relief appearances + 2 * total starts), IP (weighted slightly less than other categories), Wins + Saves, IP/H ratio, K/BB, ERA. Right now, he’s the 7th highest rated reliever by their formula, so he’d have to fall quite a ways to lose Type A status, never mind fall off compensation completely.
But yeah, there is no opportunity for compensation until he is a free agent in any case. Personally, I’m all for trading him, just because of the amount of money he makes (although the amount of money he makes also will limit the interested teams).
yeah
that deal doesnt add up well
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by bestbostonsports on Aug 3, 2010 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions
I really hope you are kidding
That place was for diehard sports fans. I only follow my team when they're in the playoffs" - Homer Simpson
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by bestbostonsports on Aug 3, 2010 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions
I really hope along with several others that you leave this blog forever.
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harsh
That place was for diehard sports fans. I only follow my team when they're in the playoffs" - Homer Simpson
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by bestbostonsports on Aug 3, 2010 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions
according to.....?
That place was for diehard sports fans. I only follow my team when they're in the playoffs" - Homer Simpson
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by bestbostonsports on Aug 3, 2010 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions
if you have to, I dont care
That place was for diehard sports fans. I only follow my team when they're in the playoffs" - Homer Simpson
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by bestbostonsports on Aug 3, 2010 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions
no, just go post a poll
Does the community of OTM want me to never post on this site again
I bet you its 85% yes
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go ahead
That place was for diehard sports fans. I only follow my team when they're in the playoffs" - Homer Simpson
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by bestbostonsports on Aug 3, 2010 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions
no, I suggested you do it
I will not waste my time since I already know the outcome.
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I really just want to see that outcome in hard stats on a computer screen though...
I love Lester and Pedroia!!! ITS MAN LOVE!
I truthfully do not have an issue with BBS
but I cannot stand the sunshine and rainbows thinking.
I don’t know Red Sox fans like that.
The certified ambassador of all things good and great, here at OTM.
I'm fine with sunshine and rainbows thinking when reasonably appropriate.
But to come into a thread about the loss of our best offensive player while needing to gain ground more than 10% of the remaining schedule and talk about how we’re “fine” and bring out the “it’s not over until it’s over” bullshit?
That I can’t take. It’s ignoring thinking and analysis and reality when it’s not convenient.
It’s also a matter of actually looking at what’s best for the team, and what’s the purpose of these comments if not to actually discuss—really discuss and not just blather—about the situation the team is in. Giving up doesn’t just mean we don’t care about the games anymore, it’s a whole shift in strategy in philosophy. It means more at bats for players like Nava, Kalish, and Lowrie while resting Drew, Scutaro, and the like. It means shutting down Youkilis for the season and getting surgery for Cameron instead of waiting it out and seeing if he’s ready to come back by September. It means keeping Bard’s innings down regardless of in-game situation.
This isn’t a nothing decision. It could have real lasting consequences on the team’s future. To just throw truisms and bullshit at it isn’t actually discussing anything. We obviously have no control over the situation, but we come here to talk about and understand baseball, and that’s only achievable through actual discussion.
USG
Also, if we get down to about .500, we have a good chance of winding up with a protected draft pick.
If we’re not going to the postseason this year, there’s really no difference between going 95-67, and 80-82. I’d prefer the latter, as I said over at Camden Chat.
USG
If we didn't need Ells to build possible trade value,
I’d say let’s plop Reddick in center come September.
"If I was being paid $30,000 dollars a year, the very least I could do was hit .400."- Ted Williams
I hate Hermida
Twitter: @BoldandBrash
I mean when the AAA season is over,
and then let him play everyday in center
"If I was being paid $30,000 dollars a year, the very least I could do was hit .400."- Ted Williams
I hate Hermida
Twitter: @BoldandBrash
Ben - I seem to recall you joining in on the negative nancy chorus
during the recent Celtic’s season. I think more than a few folks might say they jumped ship a tad early there.
I’m not saying things look great. But I wish folks on the ‘negative’ side wouldn’t try to stake some sort of claim on ‘reality’.
The reality is that we just took a hit on offense and defense at the 1B position in our lineup as Lowell will be inserted there. I’m not going to belittle that hit. Its signficant. But I don’t know yet how big of a hit or if it takes us out of the race. I need to see how well Lowell plays there.
Other than that, things haven’t changed that much. Our starting pitching is still elite. Our offense overall should still be productive. Our middle relief still is a black hole void over which we must somehow cross each game. And we need Pedroia back.
You make a valid point, that said;
People on the “negative” side stake a claim to reality, like people on the positive side stake a claim to being “real fans” or “true fans” who don’t give up on their team.
Everyone thinks their point of view is right and the most valid, that’s why it’s their point of view. Things like being a true fan or being realists are just justifications of their viewpoint.
I guess I would say that
‘reality’ can be expressed with facts known about the current situation.
Projections about what will happen down the road? Those are projections – however well informed – and not ‘reality’.
I agree that folks should not set thresholds on what constitutes being a ‘real fan’. That also should include not castigating a fan because they choose to wear a pink hat (my wife wears one and she knows more about sports than 90% of the guys I know).
Your wife is an exception
Not all pink hat wearers are pink hats, nor are all pink hats wearers of pink hats.
USG
I am not a pick hat
That place was for diehard sports fans. I only follow my team when they're in the playoffs" - Homer Simpson
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by bestbostonsports on Aug 3, 2010 11:22 PM EDT up reply actions
I hate the moral high ground taken by the optimists. That's what really gets me.
If the team makes the playoffs, 90% of the time they turn around, proclaim themselves to be better fans than everyone else, and damn us non-believers for our sins.
If we are right, it never ever gets brought up, and if we do it’s just “LOL nothing wrong with optimism way to be a jerk.”
USG
Try not to hate. 'Bad for the digestion.
There is no morale high ground here.
The Celtics analogy really isn't valid though.
The question there was their ability to “turn it on” once the playoffs came. That was something only the team could know it had the ability to do (and, noticeably, they came up short in a “we’re very old” sort of way in the last minutes of Game 7). They already had their playoff ticket punched, it was just a matter of whether they had, in fact, been following the old Pistons’ philosophy, or if they were really showing us their best.
This is entirely different. We are already behind, unequivocally. There was no reason NOT to play as hard as possible to this point. We have lost one of our best players, making us even less likely to come from behind then before. When someone comes in and responds to me saying “the season is over” by calling me unnecessarily negative? Please. The odds are so far against us it’s not even funny. This IS the realistic reaction.
USG
why is it different? Its still all about fans over-reacting
All the signs were there during the Celtics season that indicated the team was far, far better than their record and just needed to get healthy.
Here – yes, losing Youk is a big blow. But there are still plenty of reasons to think this team is still capable of making a run. Lowell is a downgrade from Youk. But he’s not useless. So yeah, the defense and offense are marginally downgraded. But the pitching is still the key and that isn’t any worse today than it was yesterday.
pitching is a part of defense
our defense is much worse by fielding an invalid at first base instead of one of the best 1Bs in baseball.
Building Fenway from the ground up - Virtual Fenway
It's entirely different.
Because one team could wait to turn it on. The Red Sox have missed out on 66% of their opportunity and will be at least another 10% without one of their best players.
I in no way think this team is not a playoff team. I just think its chances have been ruined by injuries. Everything indicates we are a great team, the difference between this and the Celtics is that the Celtics were basically guaranteed to have an opportunity to show it at the end of the season. The Red Sox are not.
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Aug 3, 2010 11:41 PM EDT up reply actions
You are missing my point.
What is the same is the fan reactions to bad news.
And what is also the same is that the underlying fundamentals support the fact that the Red Sox are still in it.
Fans crying that the Celtics were ‘done’ weren’t falling back on “oh, but they’ll still get into the playoffs”. They were openly and blatantly predicting a first-round exit from the playoffs. That’s analogous in baseball to not even contending for a playoff spot.
Baseball is different from Basketball – its not just about getting into the playoffs. Especially in the AL East. Simply being able to be in the fight to get into the playoffs IS huge.
The Red Sox may not make it in – but they should be able to put up a fight for at least the WC.
Yes, fan reaction to bad news is similar
But that’s not the point. The point is that the situations are drastically different based on what backed up the believers in both situations.
Celtics faithful could rely on the idea that the team was holding it in reserve—that there was some level of play heretofore unseen by the fanbase, and the team could turn it on in an even playing field like the playoffs.
The Red Sox fans have no such level playing field to reveal their ace-in-the-hole on. The analogy shouldn’t be “Celtics fans midseason” it should be “What if the Celtics lost Rondo for the first three games on the Cavaliers series, went down 0-2, and then lost Pierce for games 4-5, and possibly 6 and 7?”
The reactions are the same, but the circumstances are different. While one is based on the guess of a team’s attitude towards the regular season, the other is based on almost complete knowledge of the abilities of all parties involved.
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Aug 4, 2010 12:13 AM EDT up reply actions
well, Im not doing it
so if you want to find out….
That place was for diehard sports fans. I only follow my team when they're in the playoffs" - Homer Simpson
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by bestbostonsports on Aug 3, 2010 6:51 PM EDT up reply actions
So would I
I’m interested to see how many people agree with me.
If I was your math homework I'd be really hard and you'd be doing me on your desk.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
by TheLoneDavid on Aug 4, 2010 12:01 AM EDT up reply actions
You can't be serious
As if losing Youkilis isn’t bad enough, now we have to watch f’ing Mike Lowell try to play baseball? Why can’t we bring up someone from AAA, someone, anyone?
Building Fenway from the ground up - Virtual Fenway
Jack hannahan
That place was for diehard sports fans. I only follow my team when they're in the playoffs" - Homer Simpson
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by bestbostonsports on Aug 3, 2010 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Fortunately
I get all my tickets for April/May, so at least I won’t have to watch the corpses on this team struggle to finish 3rd.
Thank god soccer season starts the 14th. Get back to the Red Sox next March.
Building Fenway from the ground up - Virtual Fenway
What?
You don’t think he can maintain a 1.227 SLG at first base?
I don't think
he can maintain a .227 SLG at first base.
Building Fenway from the ground up - Virtual Fenway
why the ngitivity towards Lowell?
hes better than any other options
That place was for diehard sports fans. I only follow my team when they're in the playoffs" - Homer Simpson
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by bestbostonsports on Aug 3, 2010 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions
2
You can take your pick. One’s dumb and skinny, the other’s dumb and fat. Either will at least be able to take walks.
Building Fenway from the ground up - Virtual Fenway
I bet the skinny one can steal a base too.
If I was your math homework I'd be really hard and you'd be doing me on your desk.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
by TheLoneDavid on Aug 4, 2010 12:01 AM EDT up reply actions
Wait until roster expansions.
We might be in the grave, but we need a little more dirt scattered over us before you see Lars or someone out there. And as was already said, it’s never Hannahan time.
lol
If Youkilis is out for the season then yeah, we’re done. If he goes on the 15 the Sox can weather the storm with Ellsbury coming back.
When they tell me that Youkilis is done for the year i’ll push the panic button. For now people need to stop jumping off the nearest bridge.
if he is out for the season
which we dont know, then i would agree
That place was for diehard sports fans. I only follow my team when they're in the playoffs" - Homer Simpson
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by bestbostonsports on Aug 3, 2010 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions
If he is out the next 15 games its over....
You see what I did there?
I love Lester and Pedroia!!! ITS MAN LOVE!
lolz
i don’t have nearly as much optimism as BBS, but thats a pretty pessimistic outlook. Have you noticed that the Sox have been playing at a high level with injuries like this all season?
Its a huge loss but its not exactly the end of the season.
They've been playing at a high level
But one 6.5 games behind their competition. Who just improved. And who they’ll have to face on the road in the next few weeks.
USG
My apologies to BBS
but please do not be so optimistic.
The certified ambassador of all things good and great, here at OTM.
I accept
But I will continue to be optimistc
That place was for diehard sports fans. I only follow my team when they're in the playoffs" - Homer Simpson
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by bestbostonsports on Aug 4, 2010 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions
What I don't understand is why everyone is so hard on BBS
I mean, whats wrong with a little Dunkirk spirit? Obviously this is a huge blow to our already deminishing chances. Obviously this is absolutely awful news. We get it. Why do we have to be all “sky is falling”? Whats wrong with taking bad news and turning it into optimism?
not optimism, I guess, but maybe hope
We have plenty of time to lament our awful luck and play woe is me or shoulda coulda woulda
by RyanBeingManny on Aug 3, 2010 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm cool with BBS
nothing wrong with optimism, even if I couldn’t disagree more. The Phillies threw in the towel when they traded Abreu a few years back and immediately ended up almost getting back into the race with a lame duck team. Anything can happen.
… it just won’t.
Building Fenway from the ground up - Virtual Fenway
There's plenty of problem with taking bad news and turning it into optimism.
But there’s nothing wrong with taking bad news in stride. The problem is when she attacks other people for negativity. What’s wrong, I ask you, with a little bit of realism?
I feel bad for all you people
wow
mr.negitive.
If you dont want to write about them any more, Im available
I want to put in a petition for a new rule.
Please, poitive attitude. Its really getting to me all the negitivity
??
his makes zero sense.
If the Red Sox are out, the Twins may as well be too
These are all initial responses to other’s comments, so this doesn’t include any of the back-and-forth where she basically called other people quitters.
I’m going to use the vegan/vegetarian analogy. I have no problem with what you eat. I will not try and convince you to eat meat. But so help me God if you should try and criticize me for having a hamburger. She just made it worse by being completely nonsensical with a lot of her comments, too.
Consider that Wolf posted this:
I’m still resolutely unwilling to call it over
until we see if Lowell is as bad as he looked earlier in the year, which I doubt with regular at bats.
And received no criticism at all. There’s a reason.
USG
Fair enough.
I read it earlier as an attempt to rally the troops, but rereading it, there does seem to be undue criticism involved. Though now I’m pissed because now I really want to eat a giant burger
by RyanBeingManny on Aug 3, 2010 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions
There is little funnier than hearing Anthony Bourdain talk about Vegs and Vegans.
Worth checking out if you get the chance
by RyanBeingManny on Aug 3, 2010 6:27 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm usually pretty quick on the uptake
But god help me, I can’t tell if you are being sarcastic or not. (I completely understand your point by the way. It is hypocritical to expect the best of both worlds wanting everyone one to agree with your outlook while putting theirs down)
by RyanBeingManny on Aug 3, 2010 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions
I guess that makes sense
it just really pissed m off to see so many people saying its over
That place was for diehard sports fans. I only follow my team when they're in the playoffs" - Homer Simpson
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by bestbostonsports on Aug 3, 2010 6:45 PM EDT up reply actions
I am among the group that refuses to say its over
until we are mathmagically eliminated. OF course it is much much more difficult dealing with two teams above us. But I am an idiot, and totally believe that my superstitious leg taps and lucky tee shirts can make up ten back with ten to go.
by RyanBeingManny on Aug 3, 2010 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions
I dont have the teeshirt thing
I just dont want to give up when im going to the game tomorrow.
Im 7-0 this season!
That place was for diehard sports fans. I only follow my team when they're in the playoffs" - Homer Simpson
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by bestbostonsports on Aug 3, 2010 6:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh, I'm awful.
I have an old teeshirt that I have warn for every playoff game since 1999. It is tattered and broken, but I either wear it under my clothes for work or on its own for every single playoff game. And that is not to mention the rest of the games
by RyanBeingManny on Aug 3, 2010 6:53 PM EDT up reply actions
I tryed that during the Bruins run
it worked for a while then it blew up in my face, so no more
That place was for diehard sports fans. I only follow my team when they're in the playoffs" - Homer Simpson
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by bestbostonsports on Aug 3, 2010 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions
It worked for me for the 99 ALDS against Cleveland
I was at all three games we won, wearing the same tee. Worn it ever since. After last year, I’ve contemplated retiring it though
by RyanBeingManny on Aug 3, 2010 6:56 PM EDT up reply actions
wow, thats awesome
That place was for diehard sports fans. I only follow my team when they're in the playoffs" - Homer Simpson
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by bestbostonsports on Aug 3, 2010 11:22 PM EDT up reply actions
I know how you feel
I was getting pissed back in like May when people said it was over or even up to the deadline when people thought we should sell. We just each have our own respective breaking points where we need to accept that something may be unattainable and start to protect ourselves emotionally from it. Sports are something we all take very personally and our pride is on the line each day. This was that point for most of the remaining people who were on the fence and the confirmation point for the people who had already believed that the season was over, just have to let us wallow for now and then shove it in our faces later should we make the playoffs.
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
Wow, I went to Publix and 150+ posts :P
Anyways. This’ll hurt the offense but Mike Lowell has dominated Pawtucket with only like 20ish at bats. Hopefully he brings to the table what he did there.
Ben, by calling me out.....did you mean, its my fault? haha.
This sucks. But, at least we can agree now, unless you were being sarcastic. The season, is now, officially over.
Just calling you out on the whole "Can't believe they pulled him out of the game" thing.
He could have a REALLY fucked up thumb now if they hadn’t.
USG
Ah, I see. Hey, you were right...
This really sucks man. I’m kinda in the dumps right now…this seasons been such a disappointment.
It’s like the 2009 Mets, but worse. At least they just completely fell apart early on leaving no hope…we’ll prob ride this thing out till mid september and then the wheels will fall off.
Drew you and I argued about this as well and I have to say.......
I gained a lot of respect for you being able to admit you were wrong.
It takes a class act to do so,
Hats off to you brother.
Jesus am I pissed. Not only are we realistically out of the playoff race i'll fly to states
in September to also see my first Red Sox game live against the rays and most likely i will see a fucking AAA Team. With my luck this &(% Lackey will pitch that day. I know its best for the team but man that just sucks, just realized that when Ben said its best to shutdown Pedroia and the likes.
by German Red Sox Fan on Aug 3, 2010 6:21 PM EDT reply actions
Argh
that sucks man. On the plus side, you get to be in Boston during the one month when the weather’s pretty awesome.
Building Fenway from the ground up - Virtual Fenway
^This
Enjoy boston, go on a cliche duck tour, walk around, take in the sights, freedom trail, fenway, etc. go on a whale watch. tons to do man…just take it all in, and enjoy fenway for what it is…the best park in the world.
x 1,000,000
Boston is friggin’ brilliant, and I appreciate it far more for having lived other places.
Building Fenway from the ground up - Virtual Fenway
Doesn't matter to me
Season’s over, and I have Hell’s Kitchen to watch while awaiting City vs. Tottenham on the 14th.
Building Fenway from the ground up - Virtual Fenway
Everything now makes a little more sense.
I’d be a miserable grumpy guy too, if i’d were a City Fan. ;)
by German Red Sox Fan on Aug 3, 2010 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions
CTID
The way I see it, they have to be better than they’ve played in pre-season so far.
And for the record I became a City fan when Thaksin was the dictator-in-charge, so at least I predate the spending spree. Damn lot of good it’s done us so far.
Building Fenway from the ground up - Virtual Fenway
I hope that Boateng plays a vital role in City's Team.
One of my favourite players, has lots of potential.
The “Oldschool-Fans” or better “Tradionalists” obviously start to hate these teams, who get bought by these billionaires and just start spending hundrets of millions on new players. I guess Americans are used to that in some way, cause sportteams or franchises are owned by persons. In Germany for example a sportsteams can’t be owned by one person or a company etc. Atleast thats the rule in soccer. So its a club which governs itself and the members of the club have to elect a president or a CEO or a sort of a board (all these people dont get paid for that job). This way i feel german soccer clubs have way more indentity than all those new super rich english teams like City or Tottenham or Chelsea. Because there is no person who wants to profit for his own benefit. They only have the best interest of their club in mind.
Yeah the English Premier League might have the best players, but it just lost alot of its tradition and atmosphere. So I take the German Bundesliga, which btw has the highest average attendance of all soccer leagues on the planet, over the Premier League any day of the week.
by German Red Sox Fan on Aug 3, 2010 7:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, this is some bullshit right here.
But, I guess it’s a good thing we still have Mikey.
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
If we make the playoffs on Mike Lowells back
Considering the teetering on and off with trade talks, and Lowell eventually staying with the team, you do realize Theo will again be regarded as a hero…haha
In all honesty
I would just love to see Mikey finish this season strong. It would be a nice end to his time with the Sox.
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
It would be helpful to the team as well
That place was for diehard sports fans. I only follow my team when they're in the playoffs" - Homer Simpson
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by bestbostonsports on Aug 3, 2010 6:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Then Theo will extend him
for another 40 million.
Building Fenway from the ground up - Virtual Fenway
It seems like everyone is a little angry.
I had the funeral for the 2010 season last week, so I’m pretty calm. I really hope we get to see Manuel and Bowden for the rest of the season.
"If I was being paid $30,000 dollars a year, the very least I could do was hit .400."- Ted Williams
I hate Hermida
Twitter: @BoldandBrash
Adam Dunn placed on waivers...
Theo, if you’re not worthless, and want to save this season, you will grab this guy. Now.
Someone will claim him before us
BTW, I saw the other day if it were not for the AL East, the Red Sox would be first in every division except the AL West and NL West
That place was for diehard sports fans. I only follow my team when they're in the playoffs" - Homer Simpson
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by bestbostonsports on Aug 3, 2010 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions
No
someone would claim him first
That place was for diehard sports fans. I only follow my team when they're in the playoffs" - Homer Simpson
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by bestbostonsports on Aug 3, 2010 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions
You do know that they won't just give him to us, don't you?
"If I was being paid $30,000 dollars a year, the very least I could do was hit .400."- Ted Williams
I hate Hermida
Twitter: @BoldandBrash
I'm definitely not looking forward to seeing Cash catch tonight
I would rather have Salty playing already. What do you guys think?
Victor is catching
That place was for diehard sports fans. I only follow my team when they're in the playoffs" - Homer Simpson
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by bestbostonsports on Aug 3, 2010 6:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Vic is catching, but...
I would be more comfortable with Salt vs. Cash. The problem is that we want Salt to reach his incredible potential, and that is best done having him in AAA.
"If I was being paid $30,000 dollars a year, the very least I could do was hit .400."- Ted Williams
I hate Hermida
Twitter: @BoldandBrash
I'd say odds are way to against us to have Salt catch above Cash.
We are 95% out of this in my mind, so the small upgrade Salt would afford us over Cash wouldn’t be worth it.
Gawd - I'm having flashbacks to this last year's Celtic's season.
The season might indeed be down the poop shoot.
But I’ll wait until I see how Lowell performs in replacement before I hit the flusher.
BTW
I predicited in Febuary the Celtics would be in the finals
I am good at this stuff
That place was for diehard sports fans. I only follow my team when they're in the playoffs" - Homer Simpson
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by bestbostonsports on Aug 3, 2010 11:22 PM EDT up reply actions
You probably predicted the Sox to the WS in 2008 and 2009 too.
And the Celtics in ’08, and who knows about the Bruins.
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Aug 3, 2010 11:39 PM EDT up reply actions
No
I did not predict anything but the Celtics, and I looked pretty right.
Am I predicting a Sox WS? No, but I say they are in it
That place was for diehard sports fans. I only follow my team when they're in the playoffs" - Homer Simpson
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by bestbostonsports on Aug 3, 2010 11:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Best Boston Sports
I suffered through 1967, 1975, 1978, 1986 (the worst!!) and 2003 (even worster!!). Until 2004 I wouldn`t have believed the Sox could win a World Series much less come from 0-3 down to beat the Yankees. So as BBS says, anything is possible. Unlikely but mathematically possible. The odds would say that the Yankees and Rays are due for some bad luck.
So give the girl a break. 2004s happen!
Thank you
for supporting my point
That place was for diehard sports fans. I only follow my team when they're in the playoffs" - Homer Simpson
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by bestbostonsports on Aug 3, 2010 11:21 PM EDT up reply actions
I say let them have this year
Save up all the bad luck for next year, when we’re healthy and can take advantage.
If this team had been healthy all year I say we’re easily leading the East at this point by three, if not five games.
If I was your math homework I'd be really hard and you'd be doing me on your desk.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
by TheLoneDavid on Aug 4, 2010 12:07 AM EDT up reply actions
Actually, that's not how it works.
The odds say both teams are due for completely normal luck from here on in.
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Aug 4, 2010 12:14 AM EDT up reply actions
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