Red Sox Lineups and Mike Lowell
I had a realization last night. Really, I want to call it a revelation, but it's probably not intense enough to count.
It was before the night game, I was wandering around through the mist, waiting to meet up with someone and idly looking through some links on my phone. I opened up the Boston.com Extra Bases page, and saw the lineups for that evening. It read:
Scutaro SS
Drew RF
Martinez 1B
Ortiz DH
Beltre 3B
Nava LF
Lowrie 2B
Kalish CF
Cash C
I looked at it. First impression was it's not too different from the one in the afternoon game. Essentially we traded Lowrie for Hall and Cash for Lowell (offensively speaking, of course). The part that surprised me was that when I saw it, it occured to me that I'm not sure that this lineup is a downgrade from the one fielded this afternoon. It wasn't the Hall for Lowrie thing, I think Lowrie is a better hitter than Hall, but Hall has actually hit very well lately, and with a lot of power. No, the surprising realization was that I feel about as comfortable with Kevin Cash at the plate as I do with Mike Lowell lately.
First of all, and a large reason I didn't mind this was that Lowell consistently bats 6th when he is in the lineup. This seems to frequently result in a rally starting in the beginning of an inning, only to end up with Lowell popping out on the first pitch. Cash may be a worse hitter than Lowell, but at least with him in the lineup, our 3-4-5-6 are all good, patient hitters who will grind out at bats.
What we've been told all along is that Mike Lowell can still hit. If he sees frequent at bats, he will still be the offensive force he's always been (for the record, the offensive force he's always been- his career average wOBA- would put him squarely in between Mike Napoli and Adam LaRoche for first basemen this year. That would be fine. Instead, his wOBA for the year puts him squarely just worse than Jorge Cantu, in the middle of his awful year). The problem is, that just hasn't been the case.
Since the beginning of August, essentially where this stint as a first baseman began, Lowell has hit to a line of .258/.320/.409 which, while marginally better than the atrocious numbers he put up in part time duty, is easily on pace to be the second worst of his career. In addition, he's putting up just awful numbers against left-handed pitchers, who he's supposed to be much stronger against.
So what's my point here? Obviously there's not a lot of options. Adam LaRoche has passed through waivers, but the Diamondbacks seemed inclined to try to work out an extension with him. Really, there's not a ton of first base options available at this point, so he isn't easily replaceable. Lars isn't ready for the majors, and neither is Rizzo. We don't really have another legitimate possibility in the minors, especially with Delgado being injured and unable to play.
What I'd really like to see is Lowrie playing first the vast majority of the time, with Hall playing second. I think that's our best possible option, but I recognize that it's unlikely to happen. I realize that we're probably going to have Lowell be playing first base most of the rest of the year.
So here's all I ask- it's a simple favor really. Tito, when Lowell is probably the worst hitter in the lineup you're putting out, please, until he proves otherwise, don't put him in the middle of the lineup as if he were a legitimate run producer, bat him at the end.
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Missing Salty. I'd rather see him starting and VMart at 1B as the regular duo
and I’d play Bill Hall everyday in LF.
Why Hall?
He’s a horrible fielder and his all or nothing approach drives me crazy. There is no excuse for someone who has as much power he does to only have a .312 OBP, it’s killing us, he is a rally killer.
Nava’s defense may not be all that better but man is his bat way more helpful.
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
They are very different players, that's for sure.
Nava has a nice OBP and doubles, but only that one memorable HR.
Hall has the HR’s, not the OBP and almost no doubles. Truly all or nothing.
They are both subpar defenders, but not Manny bad. More like Jason Bay bad.
I’d take Hall because of his experience as long as the Sox are still in it.
Eh, can’t really value experience too much. If Nava plays the same defense, which he essentially does, and has a better bat, which he does, he should be the starter right now.
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
I guess we don't agree that a.) he has a better bat or b.) that he plays better defense.
Besides that, we’re on the same page!
Hall’s swing is all or nothing, it’s either going out of the park or a single or an out, the guy has 10 XBH that aren’t a HR or single. He’s getting on base at a .313 clip. In this lineup, for someone who get’s regular starts, is completely unacceptable. We build our team up with plays who take pitches, work the count and get on base one way or another without overvaluing the HR. If guys get on base, runs score.
Nava is getting on base at a .363 clip, which is down from where it had been before his latest call up where he has admittedly struggled, in nearly 1/3 the plate attempts he has 10 XBH that aren’t HR or singles, same as Bill. He gets on base at a far greater consistency, he can be counted on game in and game out to play ball the way this club plays ball. If you want to go into counting stats that mean nothing, Nava has half the RBI total that Hall does, in one third the PAs, so in totally statistically irrelevant way, he’s been more productive than Hall given his chances.
And I’m not sure where you think I said he plays better defense, I think the direct quote was:
If Nava plays the same defense, which he essentially does
I think Nava’s bat is more dependable, if it’s late in a ball game who do you want up at bat? The guy who will probably get on base one way or another or a guy who’s only real chance of success is a HR which only might happen. I’m going with the guy who’s more likely to not make an out, Nava.
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
I'll take Hall and his experience in that spot.
that’s where we disagree. You don’t like Hall, I don’t like Nava. You use OBP to justify your argument, I use experience and power. They are different types of players.
I think we’ve seen the best of Nava and a rejuvenated Hall. I’m sure you’ve see Nava as a good bat, proven at every level, who is continuing to adjust to MLB pitching and a player in Hall is norming to his .200 avg last year. Different perspectives, different players.
Hall's "experience"
Is mediocrity or plain old sucking for most of the last decade 2005-2006 were his only decent years. Besides hitting for power he does nothing else well and even the power is flaky. It’s nice to say otherwise, but prove it.
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
Sorry, but as comftorable with Cash as Lowell?
No no no. Lowell has not been productive, but he is not as bad as Cash
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by bestbostonsports on Aug 26, 2010 11:33 AM EDT reply actions
it's about placement, not about the actual bat
I’m as comfortable with a lineup that has Nava hitting 6th and Cash hitting 9th as I am with a lineup that has Lowell hitting 6th. He just doesn’t belong there until he can actually start hitting the ball well- and with his speed (slow trot), he needs to hit the ball really well to get past first base.
I’d certainly prefer a lineup with Lowell batting 8th or 9th as opposed to Cash hitting 9th, but I hate having two undisciplined hitters (Beltre and Lowell) hitting in a row with a hitter who has been unproductive this year hitting immediately after our most productive hitter.
Lowell has not lit the world on fire
You are right. Having him bat 8th would also give this lineup way more depth
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by bestbostonsports on Aug 26, 2010 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions
plus, if he gets the at bats and gets hot its a great bottom lineup..(i know I know...I can still hope right?)
Just happy bein' on the green side of the grass
by gandalf3rings on Aug 26, 2010 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree with you
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by bestbostonsports on Aug 26, 2010 11:41 PM EDT up reply actions
He's worse.
At least Cash plays a premium position.
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well to be fair
Cash is awful at his premium position. Defensively, he is a catcher in the same way that Bill Hall is a center fielder.
so once again
essentially the question is how Cash is an MLB player?
I dunno
Id take Dusty Brown over him
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by bestbostonsports on Aug 26, 2010 11:41 PM EDT up reply actions
At a minimum, Lowell should be taking pitches until he gets a strike
Swinging at a first pitch is fine when you hit, but he isn’t hitting and those first pitch, rally killing pop-ups are killing us. If he isn’t going to hit, the least he can do is work the count a little and make the opposing pitcher throw a lot of pitches to get him out.

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