Johnny Damon To The Red Sox Throws Common Sense Out The Window
by Randy Booth on Aug 24, 2010 8:15 AM EDT
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It feels funny to say this, but Johnny Damon might be a Red Sox again.
Johnny Damon might be a Red Sox again.
Yeah, that's just weird.
Damon has a day-and-change to figure out of he wants to join the Red Sox for the stretch run of the season. The Red Sox put a waiver wire claim in for the 36-year-old designated hitter. (If you think he's an outfielder, you're kidding yourself). Early indications are that Damon will not accept a trade to Boston (a team that is on his "no trade" list), but there's still some wiggle room as Damon said it will be a tough decision.
But at the end of the day, the Red Sox acquiring Damon just makes no sense.
This was a block move. Pure and simple. There isn't another way to slice it at this point. There is no other way to slice this, either: the Red Sox are not trying to make the playoffs.
OK, let me clarify. The Red Sox are trying to make the playoffs. The players are certainly going out there to win ballgames and maybe get lucky in the last month of the season. But when I say "the Red Sox" I really mean "the front office," who has no intentions to spend any money or resources this season to win right now.
The evidence was at the trade deadline. No big splashes at all. Theo & Crew were completely content with pretty much sticking with the same exact team and seeing if they could gut it out. If they did, awesome. If they didn't, not a big deal because, after all, this is a "bridge year." (The Jarrod Saltalamacchia trade, in my opinion, was moreso for 2011 than now.)
When it comes to Damon, the Red Sox front office is still following the same line of thought. In what capacity do you think Damon could really help the Sox in? Damon, sure, still has a pretty good bat. He's getting on-base at a .355 clip and any team could use that. But we're also talking about the Red Sox; the team that has arguably the best offense in baseball. The Red Sox lead the bigs in OPS and wOBA, so offense isn't the problem.
Is outfield the problem? Partially with Jacoby Ellsbury and Mike Cameron done for the year. But the fact is Damon can't play the outfield anymore. He doesn't have the legs and he can't throw. The only thing the Sox might be able to do is hide his body in left field in front of the Monster. That might be the only thing that holds a resemblance to "good."
Where Damon does help the Sox, potentially, is in the clubhouse and in public relations. It's no secret that veterans like David Ortiz, Tim Wakefield, Jason Varitek would like to see Damon back (because, ya' know, it's like 2004 all over again!). He would be an instantaneous gel to clubhouse atmosphere. But it's hard to believe that Theo would give up money, resources, etc., for a clubhouse gel. That's just not his style.
As far as the PR goes, Damon would be a nice little End Of The Year present to Red Sox Nation. Because as much as Red Sox fans want to say they hate Damon and will hate him forever, if he comes to the Sox and steps into that batter's box, he will receive a lot of cheers. He will receive a lot of boos for sure, but the cheers will certainly be audible and would drown out the boos after a while.
Put me on the "Eh, whatever" bandwagon when it comes to Damon. I'd much rather see Ryan Kalish, Daniel Nava and Darnell McDonald roam the outfield beside J.D. Drew for the rest of the season, but I'm also a journalist and a fan of the story: if Damon comes back, that is one of -- if not the biggest -- Red Sox storyline of the season.
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I don't consider Damon
a “present to the Sox at the end of the year”. There are a lot of people, I would argue, who are quite content with their blind hatred of Damon the Traitor and don’t feel the need to throw in conflicting emotions.
I really don’t think you can say that this is considered a “gift”.
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
I think to some it would be considered a gift
To others, of course, not. But that’s the way with every move — some fans love it, some fans hate it.
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My point is
that it is a contentious issue. I don’t see the point of creating a contentious issue by bringing him on board, even if Wake does wanna shoot the shit with him on the team bus.
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
well they don't necessarily have a choice
given that they claimed him, if Damon agrees to go, the Tigers can just decide to dump his contract to the red sox. So Theo at least is more comfortable with the idea of him re-joining the Red Sox than he is with the idea of him re-joining the Yankees or Rays.
Also, Randy, there would be absolutely no reason to make this block move if Theo didn’t have his sights set on the playoffs. Damon would just cost the Yankees/Rays prospects and/or money, and wouldn’t have any effect in future years. Also, the term “bridge year” there is taken way out of context and everyone should be well aware that what you’re implying when you say it is not what Theo was saying.
I see this as a clear block
Damon coming to the Sox is a small deal.
Damon staying with the Tigers is a small deal.
Damon going to the Yankees would be a HUGE deal.
The Sox don’t have a great shot at the playoffs, but the Yankees aren’t really running away from anyone either, so why help them. Why let them improve their chances?
The amount of flexibility Damon would give the Yankees along with strengthening the batter order would be sizable.
According to MLB Trade Rumors:
The two clubs would have to reach an agreement, and Damon would have to approve it.
So, by that wording, they couldn’t just dump the contract on the Sox. I don’t know a lot about the process, so I’m just going solely by this.
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
No, they CAN dump the contract on the Sox.
The consensus seems to be that this was just a blocking move, so the Sox aren’t going to give up anybody. The fact that the Tigers waived him and the Sox claimed him is all the agreement that needed to be made.
only if Damon waives his No Trade clause.
The rangers and the red sox dont’ have to reach any particular agreement, but Damon has to approve the trade.
If he does, then yes, the Sox would assume Damon’s salary and would have to retain him on the major league roster per waiver rules.
If he doesn’t the deal doesn’t happen and he stays on the Tigers roster.
Yes, I thought that was understood.
I think the point he was unsure about was the agreement, not Damon’s approval. But yes, Damon has to approve it even if it’s not a “trade”, even if the Tigers dump him for nothing.
Well they can just dump it. They can say OK we won’t pull him off waivers you can have him. We give nothing up but take on the remainder of his contract. Or they can pull him back or we can make out a deal in which they get a prospect and they send along some money too. Or Damon can just block it anyway.
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
Blind Hatred?!?!
I don’t get this feeling at all; totally immature.
Damon played his ass off for the Sox and was everything any fan could ask for.
He went to play for the Yankees because they offered him $10,000,000 more than the Red Sox. That’s $10,000,000. That is the Red Sox fault, not Damon’s. Oh sure, we can poke fun at Damon’s look, demeanor and his speaking style (like a child), but I judge a player for what he does between the lines, and Damon is/was a warrior. Give the guy a break for not being the most eloquent speaker, did he even graduate high school? I wouldn’t want him as my accountant, but he can play ball for my team any day of the week.
"Totally immature"
It’s called fandom. He was offered $10mil more than to stay with the Sox. One of the things that Johnny Damon had to factor into his decision to take that offer was the fact that Red Sox fans would absolutely turn on him and drag his name through the mud.
Johnny Damon had to decide whether that was worth ten million dollars. He decided it was. I have no problem giving him his money’s worth.
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
More often than you'd think.
I mean, I don’t HATE Damon but he isn’t my favorite player out there. Lots of stigma with him.
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
What you call "immaturity".
It’s passion. People are passionate about the Red Sox. Perhaps you hadn’t noticed.
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
Passion = Blind hatred?
I am passionate about the Red Sox and want them to win and get/keep the best players. I was upset and disspointed (stopping short of blind hatred) the Red Sox management chose to not retain Damon, and they missed him over the past few years.
When real fans ruled, we welcomed Wade Boggs (in a Yaknkee uniform) and Roger Clemens with open arms and a standing ovation.
Real fans. Gotcha.
I may have been exaggerating the “blind hatred” for dramatic effect, but the fact is that there are a great number of fans that look past OPS+ and look at what they say and do. Like I said above, part of the thing that goes with the $12mil raise is that your former fans won’t like it. One bit. He has to deal with that, and I’d say he has.
From a statistical and homeristic point of view, Johnny Damon had no business being on the Boston Red Sox at the end of this year. I am glad he is not.
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
Do you think he regrets his decision?
He looked pretty happy with the Yankees, any Yankee fan will tell you they were glad to have him (like Boggs in the 1990’s), he produced every year and is $10,000,00 richer and has another WS ring. Hmmmm…..sounds pretty good to me.
I didn't say he regretted it for a second.
I don’t care if he regrets it or not.
He made his choice. I have my reactions.
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
I don't agree with the FO giving up by not making big moves
Trading for the sake of trading is not smart. Who was available , realistically, that the Sox could have gotten but didn’t? I agree a bullpen addition would have been nice, but that wouldn’t have stopped Beckett and Lackey from stinking up the joint in August.
But on topic, I agree Damon is a block move only. Bust doesn’t that mean they’re trying to compete? If they really didn’t care, wouldn’t they just let him go to the Rays or Yanks?
I'm thinking more along the lines of it being a dick move
Sort of payback for last year when the Yankees claimed Carter from us when they knew he was the PTBNL in the Wagner trade.
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
I think it's more than that
Sure, we’re the Red Sox and we’ll do anything to screw over NYY. But it also makes baseball sense to make the claim… TB and the Yanks have had plenty of issues at the DH spot. Not issues like the Pirates have issues, but still. Damon would be an upgrade for either club, so by making the claim, not only do we get to be “dicks” (as you put it), we also keep them from getting better.
But what's the point?
We aren’t making up the ground needed to make the playoffs. What had been 5 games behind with 50 games left is now 5.5 with 36, we actually went backwards. What do we care if TB or the NYY get a better DH? It’s only a 1-year deal he had so it’s not improving them for next year when we have a solid shot.
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
The point is the Sox aren't eliminated - so they compete
Regardless of how they are playing the Sox are not eliminated yet, they may not be playing great, but they aren’t dead in the water. So they continue to compete, on the field and in the front office.
Why would you ever let a player go through that could help your competition? Especially if it’s only a 1 year deal that doesn’t really hurt you long term?
As Travben85 points out Damon going to the Yankees would be a tremendous lift for them now and into the playoffs. He could help the Rays perhaps but that is much less likely.
Either way – the Sox still have a long shot at the playoffs and the Yankees aren’t running away from anyone.
Yankees have tried twice to get a lefty DH for the top of the order this year, why let them go for a 3rd time.
For the record, I don't like it at all
But I get it. There might not be a great reason to do it, but why not? The WORST thing that happens is that Damon comes over, we pay him more than he’s worth, and we move on. It’s not like it’s my $million and change that we’d be paying him, and it’s not like that expense will keep us from spending this offseason…
I think that the shot is too long for Theo to have pulled the trigger on this deal to limit the competition. We’ve gone backwards since the day Youk when on the DL and the “are we in it are we out of it” debate began. We’re more than 5 games back and nearly 20% of the time we had left since then is gone. The playoffs are the furthest thing from my mind now, the thing that keeps me coming back right now is the progression of Kalish, Lowrie and Nava.
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
It doesn't cost Theo anything but a little cash.
First of all, it all hinges on Damon because he has a No Trade clause.
If Damon nixes the deal, then the waiver is nullified and he remains on the Tigers roster.
If Damon approves, then he joins the Red Sox and the Sox assume his salary (unless they work out a deal with the Tigers such as sending a player back in exchange for part of Damon’s salary – I doubt that happens.). So Damon would suck up a roster spot (which is a negative) until the roster expansion – at which point he just sits on the bench and occasionally pinch hits. And maybe we bring him out to hit against the Yankees once or twice.
Exactly
There seems to be no point to this exercise. He isn’t going to help us really, and I think we’re so far out of it that it doesn’t matter if we had let him go to the Yanks or Rays and he wouldn’t be a massive upgrade for either of them either. It seems like we may just be taking on $1.8 mil for the sake of doing it.
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
I disagree about his potential impact to the MFY or Rays
His baseball value to US is low. But it is higher to them.
The marginal value keeping them from having him versus the cost of us grabbing him is probably close to a wash. Its at least in the noise, if not out-right positive, so it makes sense to do it.
Well I mean for the Yankees he does what? He replaces Posada at DH and Posada replaces Cervelli at C, the difference between Cervelli and Damon for a part time role isn’t all that great. He would be a bigger upgrade probably for the Rays, but they didn’t even make a claim on him.
That being said, my whole argument is based on that I think we aren’t in the playoffs, we’re going backwards in the standings, who cares if the Yanks or Rays get him?
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
I agree with you Rogue 100%.
I don’t want to say it, and I don’t necessarily believe it but do you think that the Sox management may partially be bringing Damon back to drive up NESN ratings for the rest of the season?
Youth.....
Damon is not………and the young players need to go through this at the end of this year.
Mostly, the young players have really come thru, so let them go thru it and probably NOT make the playoffs. It will make next year’s team lots stronger.
Now, if Damon could pitch……
What is Theo thinking?
I’m praying that Johnny vetoes this trade. It makes absolutely zero sense to take on another $1.8 million for less than a month of work left in the season. The front office needs to start working for next year and saving every dime to sign our existing players. Johnny please do this organization a favor.
by UCF Knight and Red Sox on Aug 24, 2010 9:22 AM EDT reply actions
Eh that's not really how business budgeting works
if he saves $1.8 million this year, it doesn’t mean he has that to spend next year, it just means that extra money goes to the owners as additional profit. The budgeting is done much more long term and really, a couple million isn’t going to affect anything at all over the course of time.
Common sence and Damon don't go together either.
He already burned a bridge when he left the first time.He trashed the sox when he left. The mfy don’t resign him. “Crickets”
According to the rotowire widget on the side
Cash will be back today. #($*&@#$JKEHFSDFDJKLF why?
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
The Sox don't really want him, I don't think Damon wants to go, and the Tigers probably don't care either way.
Obviously the important thing is what Damon decides, but based on his comments after the game last night, I think he’s staying.
He needs Jerry McGuire
"Man that ball got outta here in a hurry, you know anything that travels that far oughta have a damn stewardess on it, don't you think?" - Crash Davis
I think he won't come to Boston
But I do think he’d jump at the chance to go to NY or TB. They have a need he could fill and it would help him look better going into the off season.
Also a block on Damon himself
Where would he LIKE to play? NY… We get to block them , the Rays, and Damon himself…(the way he was quoted as saying that certain players here were not treated well on the way out etc. after 04, it seems he’s still pissed, and if the RS are too…then this “block” seems to screw him as well) We’d probably do the same with Manny if he ends up falling to the AL waiver.
Just happy bein' on the green side of the grass
by gandalf3rings on Aug 24, 2010 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions
i dont think this is a bad move at all
1. you block a trade to tampa yankees
2. his defense is not that bad (fangraphs has him at +/- 0) and his bat is still good enough, so he actually has value
3. the billy wagner effect: hes projected as a type b atm (very close to type a), but david dejesus (type a) is out for the season, so he could slip in the type a category (http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2010/08/elias-rankings-update-2.html)
i dont think he’ll come to boston but i wouldnt mind if he did
looks like a good move by theo to me
This move is OBVIOUSLY
a block of the Rays and Yankees. Any other reasoning is just simply looking too far.
I know everyone will have an opinion on Damon coming back to Boston, but if this was Jason Werth or someone of similar caliber, the Sox would of done the same thing. Damon and Boston had nothing to do with the decision.
Too get in the playoffs the Sox must block good players. If he decides to stay in Detroit, problem solved. IF he decides to come, I highly doubt the prospect traded is all that promising. Damon on the last year of a contract and has said he wants to resign with Detroit.
Damon does have a history of saying he wants to stay with teams and not staying...
but yeah, it’s a block. If he comes, there won’t be a prospect involved.
Gammons' twitter
Tigers explained to Damon Boston didn’t claim to block, they want him. Tampa didn’t even claimed him
"If I was being paid $30,000 dollars a year, the very least I could do was hit .400."- Ted Williams
Bill Hall's defense on the 20-80 scale: 15.
Twitter: @BoldandBrash
Gammons knows his stuff,
He is so close to the Sox Management, that one has to take anything he says about the Sox, or anything effected the Sox, like the dynamics of the MFY with a huge grain of salt.
THE SOX ARE GOING TO CLAIM MANNY...
the white sox that is.
"If I was being paid $30,000 dollars a year, the very least I could do was hit .400."- Ted Williams
Bill Hall's defense on the 20-80 scale: 15.
Twitter: @BoldandBrash
I have reports
Saying he will come to Boston
2010 Red Sox Playoffs.... We Can Do It!
"That place was for diehard sports fans. I only follow my team when they're in the playoffs" - Homer Simpson
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by bestbostonsports on Aug 24, 2010 2:04 PM EDT reply actions
Peter Gammons and
MLBTR say to expect damon in Boston. And Buster Olney
http://www.weei.com/sports/boston/this-just-in/2134403/olney-dh-expect-damon-boston
2010 Red Sox Playoffs.... We Can Do It!
"That place was for diehard sports fans. I only follow my team when they're in the playoffs" - Homer Simpson
Join the Lacrosse community The Lacrosse Blog
by bestbostonsports on Aug 24, 2010 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions
its really a win win
whichever way it turns out…he’s far from a cancer and can still hit. If he stays in Det. good, if he doesn’t go to any teams above us..good
Just happy bein' on the green side of the grass
by gandalf3rings on Aug 24, 2010 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions
sigh
I guess I wouldn’t have a huge problem if it happened, it’s not the hatred thing, I just don’t see how he improves our ballclub that much. Just doesn’t seem like an advantage at all over Darnell McDonald and Nava. Maybe they want to get Kalish back down and use McDonald more in center, but I don’t love that idea.
understood...and yet
it is so into crunch time with us. If..and I do mean IF we have any shot of catching any of the other 2 teams, he is a remarkable clutch hitter and game changer that can come in even in late innings and maybe get us a few wins we might not get otherwise at basically no real risk.
Just happy bein' on the green side of the grass
by gandalf3rings on Aug 24, 2010 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Bring him in
Damon can play a decent LF for the Sox (in Fenway mostly) and provide some much needed punch to the batting order. Try to put the Yankee thing and all other BS aside for a moment children. Damon is a good player and we shouldn’t underestimate the impact on the phyche of the team when a very respected, all-star player walks into the clubhouse. Damon/Scutaro/Martinez/Ortiz/Beltre is a very decent 1 – 5.
Johnny Damon and punch don't really get along anymore.
His .768 OPS agrees. He never had his best years here.
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
OK, not a slugger..
But what is the downside here? Damon still has a very decent bat; certainly better than Nava or McDonald/Hall at this point. They could leave Drew in the 2 hole or move him behind Beltre to have a L/R/S/L/R/L line up.
I would take both Nava and Hall’s bat over Damon’s this year and I’d take McDonald’s left field defense as well. He’s not an offensive replacement over most of our outfielders and is far from a defensive replacement as well. He isn’t going to DH here either with Ortiz having that locked down firmly. His best chance to even think about seeing the field is if he’ll agree to play some first base. His bat is better than Lowell’s and he can actually move and bend over and catch, you know the things first baseman are supposed to do.
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
Not sure I'd take Damon's bat over Hall's & definitely not over Nava's
and defensively both Nava and Hall have more value.
I’m okay with the move as a block move and potentially to use him as a pinch hitter.
Heck I can even see him at DH and Papi at 1B on days when Lowell needs to rest.
But that’s about it.
don't really believe that Nava has more defensive value than Damon at all
but he does have a ton more offensive value.
Totally disagree.
Nava may or may not cover ground better than Damon at this point – and I personally think that he does.
But Nava has an arm. Damon can’t throw. Never could, really.h
Fortunately, this is not going to happen anyway, since Damon declined to waive his no-trade clause.
Past blocking the Yanks (who could use him), another possible motive for the claim is a contract for next year as a DH?? And, Damon ends his career in Boston...
However, that makes the assumption Papi is gone or the Sox are hedging their DH spot for next year with Damon and Papi?? Any thoughts?
"Man that ball got outta here in a hurry, you know anything that travels that far oughta have a damn stewardess on it, don't you think?" - Crash Davis
it's a one year contract
he’s a free agent after this year. Would be irrelevant. Also, he’s just not a good designated hitter.
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