Papelbon's Ninth Inning Implosion Throws Away Sweep
by Ben Buchanan on Aug 12, 2010 3:40 PM EDT
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The Blue Jays scored four times in the ninth off of John Lackey and Jonathan Papelbon to avoid a sweep at the hands of the Red Sox.
Everything went the Red Sox' way for the first eight frames of the game. John Lackey dodged big innings, only letting two runs score, each on a double play ball. The Sox backed him up with five runs on eleven hits, including homers off the bats of David Ortiz and Jed Lowrie.
But it was not to be. Coming back out to pitch the ninth, Lackey allowed a leadoff homer to Jose Bautista to bring the Jays within two, forcing Terry Francona to go to the bullpen and Jonathan Papelbon, who quickly imploded.
On his first pitch, Papelbon allowed a double. On his second, a single, bringing the Jays within one. On his seventh pitch, the tying run went to third with nobody out on another single--this time off his own foot--and on the ninth pitch, Edwin Encarnacion tied the game with a double.
Daniel Bard, who probably should have been the one trying to lock down the save in the first place, came in to try and work a miracle with the bases loaded, one out, and the tying run at third. But when you can't even allow a flyout, that's a tall order. Fred Lewis pushed a 1-0 fastball to center field, and Ellsbury's throw was not in time, giving the Jays a crushing walkoff win.
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Things I would trade for Jonathan Papelbon.
-The proverbial bucket of baseballs
-A player never to be named
-New Haven Ravens tickets
-A Klondike bar
-Javier Lopez (that guy’s useful)
-A signed Calvin Schiraldi rookie card
-Any adequate 8th inning pitcher.
what an awful loss
that was terry francona’s fault. Whoever decided to let Mr. Average go back out for the 9th for NO REASON was an absolute waste. What a joke of a decision by a guy who never makes stupid calls like that.
couldn't disagree more
I think Lackey should have had a chance to finish the game. He’d had good success most of the game against those hitters and hadn’t yet hit 100 pitches (he can regularly go 120 no problem). Papelbon, I suppose probably seemed like a safer choice, but he’s pitched a ton lately and could probably have done with another day off.
But to blame Papelbon’s implosion on Lackey is just ridiculous. Beyond ridiculous.
remylebeau is not blaming Lackey.
He’s blaming Tito, and he might be right. Tito left Lackey in either too long or not long enough. He either should have been pulled after the eighth, or left out to finish. Putting Papelbon in with the 8th already underway was, IMO, a mistake. (20/20 hindsight, of course.) Paps seems to do better when he starts fresh. (Yes, I know the bases were empty with none out when Paps came in, but still, I think it messes with his head to come into an inning in progress.)
"If your happiness depends on Boston winning or losing, you have to get a life." Manny Somebody-or-other
by Tessie's Dad on Aug 12, 2010 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions
*9th underway, I meant.
"If your happiness depends on Boston winning or losing, you have to get a life." Manny Somebody-or-other
by Tessie's Dad on Aug 12, 2010 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Well he's blaming Tito for leaving Lackey in too long
which is to imply that Lackey’s 9th inning performance led to the loss. Which it didn’t, really.
I don’t know why that would mess with his head. That’s part of the job. He’s not a starter.
Again, it's 20/20 hindsight, but...
It was Tito’s reaction, and the timing thereof, to Lackey’s 9th inning performance that both remy and I are finding at fault. Papelbon’s been unreliable all year, moreso in mid-inning insertions. This was predictable, and a better manager would have foreseen it. Tito’s move: wrong man at the wrong time.
"If your happiness depends on Boston winning or losing, you have to get a life." Manny Somebody-or-other
by Tessie's Dad on Aug 12, 2010 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Lackey pitched great and Terry did nothing wrong putting in Paps at the time...
Paps should have closed the game out, but he didn’t. No one is to blame except for Papelbon.
and maybe a little bit of credit should go to the Blue Jays hitters.
They are, after all, a pretty damn good hitting club.
Sometimes good clubs are going to string together hits.
’Sucks.
I see a trend
And this is the guy who keeps barking at the moon about how he wants to be the highest paid closer, blah blah blah. He is still a good pitcher, don’t get me wrong, but get rid of him, someone will give us a haul, and hand the crown to Bard. We win.
I exercise strong self control. I never drink anything stronger than gin before breakfast
4-run lead with 92 pitches
That’s why he went back out and it was pretty reasonable.
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
3, but still, remy’s just fully wrong to blame this one on Lackey. When your starter has a three-run lead, and a fairly low pitch count, of course you give him until he gives up his first hit or walk to take it the full way.
I mean, hey, why not blame the Red Sox offense for creating the lead? If it wasn’t there, it couldn’t be blown!
No one's fault but Papelbon. Seriously, Papelbon has to take 100% of the blame.
Francona did what was right. Lackey had a chance to finish it, didn’t look particularly tired, and was having a great run at the end. Francona put him on a short leash, had the closer warming behind him. Exactly what I would have done.
I swear you have never watched a Red Sox game before....EVER
Tito is straight KNOWN for mismanaging his pitchers and bullpen. He is a mediocre(at best) manager riding the coat-tails of 2 teams stacked with great players and outstanding role players who knew their place. Tito is absolutely the single most frustrating thing about this season…including our ridiculous injury list.
I exercise strong self control. I never drink anything stronger than gin before breakfast
Thats fine, but how so?
Ask just about anyone here and I’m pretty sure the majority will agree that Tito is not good. Period. He’s not, end of story
I exercise strong self control. I never drink anything stronger than gin before breakfast
He did something that no other Red Sox manager could do in 86 years and he did it twice.
Most people would have put Papelbon in tonight, I know I would havre, even if they won’t admit it. You can’t just change Paps and Bards roles this late in the season. You have to trust your closer that he will get it done. He didn’t and it is Papelbons fault and no one else.
Francona is an excellent manager. You obviously have no idea what you are talking about and the other fans who say he sucks. Do you honestly think this team would be anywhere… ANYWHERE!!! Without Francona at the helm.
You’re just looking for a scape goat when the main reason our team is where it is at is because of injuries and to a lesser extent, but it would help if they played bette, Beckett, Lackey, and PAPELBON are having bad years, who again was the reason we lost today.
He has won 2 WS is just a very flawed argument ihmo.
So because he has those 2 titles all his future decisions cant be critiqued? Sorry its just a really weak argument. I give Tito alot of credit how he handles the players and the Boston media thats not an easy thing to do with so many stars in a single team, but he is no god. His bullpen management hasnt been all that good. He basically cost us Game 2 in the 2008 ALCS and with that maybe another WS title. He makes dumb decisions all the time like playing Cash in a crucial series in New York! I’m not gonna blame him for yesterdays loss but in general he is probably not a top 10 manager in the MLB.
by German Red Sox Fan on Aug 13, 2010 9:02 AM EDT up reply actions
No of course his future decisions can be critiqued.
He is definitely a top 10 manager in the MLB. Name 10 better… Please?
Exactly
Your starter is only at 92 pitches and you’ve built a three run lead and the good arms in the bullpen have had some work lately. You put your starter back out on a short leash. Oh, HR? Time to turn to the closer. Text book. He did exactly what he was supposed to do, rely on the guy who is supposed to shut down batters in the ninth.
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
I'd have brought in Bard over Papelbon.
But he’d have been my closer since Day 1. Make Papelbon earn that job.
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Aug 13, 2010 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions
And by Day 1, I mean Day 30 or something.
So, yeah, not with the literal.
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Aug 13, 2010 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions
I kinda agree with you
I dont hate Francona, but he really should have just let bard start that inning.
He has done this before, and he will do it again.Its too bad, really
"That place was for diehard sports fans. I only follow my team when they're in the playoffs" - Homer Simpson
Join the Lacrosse community The Lacrosse Blog
by bestbostonsports on Aug 13, 2010 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't hate Francona
I just think he is the most overrated manager in the game. He’s not terrible, but like I said, he is ridiculously frustrating. And the whole “He’s so good with the players” BS needs to stop. He bends over for Papelbon because he knows that Paps is a douche and fails to realize that Bard is and always was the better option(at least this year). The Sox as a whole don’t owe the players anything besides the money in their contracts. They owe the FANS everything, and what we want is the best chance to win every night. Without us they can’t collect their crazy salaries
I exercise strong self control. I never drink anything stronger than gin before breakfast
Tito is human. Mistakes happen, but let’s face it. He still has us in the race using many AAA players to get us there due to many fluke injuries. He is a good manager.
by alchemist4Sox on Aug 16, 2010 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions
It's amazing in some respects - Paps is still a better closer then what 2/3 of the league has
His numbers are awful this year compared to his past years, but he’s still a top ten closer…ish guy.
Someone is going to pay him this offseason, and it ain’t going to be the Sox.
Come on Cubbies….keeps sucking and get us a good draft pick out of this~!
And Papelbon can't refuse arbitration...
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Aug 12, 2010 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Wow
It was the 6th when I had to lead my computer at work. I did not expect to come back to this. Sad afternoon now.
This conversation is hilarious.
Why is everyone so mad about a dumbass that thinks Dennis Bard is a baseball player?
"If I was being paid $30,000 dollars a year, the very least I could do was hit .400."- Ted Williams
I hate Hermida
Twitter: @BoldandBrash
by BoldandBrash on Aug 12, 2010 4:53 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I got annoyed and Doug Green is no more
not that any of the other people here are being a ton less troll-like…
Yea i take the blame on that
I was pissed. And he was annoying and a way to vent my frustration.
My bad
by arodlikes men on Aug 12, 2010 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Don’t blame you, and sorry about that. I hope yall know that a troll is just a troll, and not representative of our fan base, or anything we’d condone at PSA.
Questions or thoughts? Email me at duggan2423(at)gmail(dot)com
ha yeah
you guys are cool. As far as Yankees fans can be at least. I’m sure obnoxious Sox fans happen over there from time to time.
Every now and again, but since I come over here a pretty good amount, I know the regulars here are good, so it’s whatever. It’s the internet, trolling happens.
Questions or thoughts? Email me at duggan2423(at)gmail(dot)com
We know
And 95% of you guys that come over to chat are awesome and this guy barely posts at PSA anyway, you can’t stop that, jerks will be jerks. I’m sure there are a few from this community that have taken it upon themselves to be jerks over on PSA.
Can’t wait to see the cleanup that occurs on this thread.
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
Asked and answered good job mods.
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
nah just everything was the one guy trolling his heart out or people replying to him
he did post a lot quickly
Yikes.
"If your happiness depends on Boston winning or losing, you have to get a life." Manny Somebody-or-other
Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.
"We are not normal, We are Legends. People will tell their kids about us." - Deon Butler before Ohio State Game 2008.
Who's creating the "Jonathan Papelbon Sucks" facebook page?
I’m gonna like the shit out of it.
There are no stupid questions, but there are a LOT of inquisitive idiots.
by return2greatness on Aug 12, 2010 6:30 PM EDT reply actions
If we miss the playoffs by 1 game...
…this will be the 1 game I remember to pin the season on. And I will spend the off-season hating on Pap. And then I will get over it and love him again in May.
Of course, when we make the playoffs, I will love him again straight away.
Bard > Crapelbon
That place was for diehard sports fans. I only follow my team when they're in the playoffs" - Homer Simpson
Join the Lacrosse community The Lacrosse Blog
by bestbostonsports on Aug 12, 2010 6:54 PM EDT reply actions
I love seeing Papelbon choke
Even if he were on the Pirates or Royals I would root against him. He is such a d-bag.
"Winning is the most important thing in my life, after breathing. Breathing first, winning next." -George Michael Steinbrenner III
I think you're a d-bag
for talking about our players on our site.
Building Fenway from the ground up - Virtual Fenway
Ouch
Everyone rags on Papelbon, but once I come along it isn’t ok? Hmm..
"Winning is the most important thing in my life, after breathing. Breathing first, winning next." -George Michael Steinbrenner III
by Chris McKeown on Aug 12, 2010 10:57 PM EDT up reply actions
No, but our regulars here don't come talk shit about CC when he doesn't win
or Mo on the rare occasion when he blows a save. Or Posada’s retarded kid.
I exercise strong self control. I never drink anything stronger than gin before breakfast
Probably because they're more classy individuals than Papelbon
"Winning is the most important thing in my life, after breathing. Breathing first, winning next." -George Michael Steinbrenner III
by Chris McKeown on Aug 13, 2010 7:24 AM EDT up reply actions
Crap
Good point
I exercise strong self control. I never drink anything stronger than gin before breakfast
I just can't stand the man
Just like it’s understandable for you to hate Alex Rodriguez… because he hasn’t been a very classy guy until about a year ago when he turned his life around (or so it seems).
"Winning is the most important thing in my life, after breathing. Breathing first, winning next." -George Michael Steinbrenner III
by Chris McKeown on Aug 13, 2010 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions
To be fair I've hated A-Rod since Texas
I exercise strong self control. I never drink anything stronger than gin before breakfast
That's completely understandable haha
"Winning is the most important thing in my life, after breathing. Breathing first, winning next." -George Michael Steinbrenner III
by Chris McKeown on Aug 14, 2010 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Calm down
Leave Y2 alone, its his opinion, who care
"That place was for diehard sports fans. I only follow my team when they're in the playoffs" - Homer Simpson
Join the Lacrosse community The Lacrosse Blog
by bestbostonsports on Aug 13, 2010 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd rather have Chad Gaudin!
"Winning is the most important thing in my life, after breathing. Breathing first, winning next." -George Michael Steinbrenner III
by Chris McKeown on Aug 12, 2010 10:57 PM EDT up reply actions
God whats with Boston teams blowing it late
This year we saw a bruins drop a 3-0 series lead, only to take it to game 7 with a 3-0 score…and lose
The Celtics were up by something like 15 points (I could be wrong, idk the exact score) in game 7 going into the second half. They lose
Those could be forgiven if the Red Sox were to come from behind to take the division/WC and eventually win the World Series, and if the Pats win it. Lets go Sox/Pats. Lets make it 2-4 in Boston sports
Please don't remind us and the Celts got robbed with Perk getting injured and the refs...
22 fucking free-throws for the Lakers!! The Bruins they just choked.
LETS GO SOX PATS BRUINS AND CELTS!!!
Dont talk about the Bruins, please
"That place was for diehard sports fans. I only follow my team when they're in the playoffs" - Homer Simpson
Join the Lacrosse community The Lacrosse Blog
by bestbostonsports on Aug 13, 2010 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Won the series! yay.
Win every series from here on out and we’ll get in.
We can’t keep freaking out over one game. Texas just did the same thing. Let’s go to Arlington and win another series.
so agree
"That place was for diehard sports fans. I only follow my team when they're in the playoffs" - Homer Simpson
Join the Lacrosse community The Lacrosse Blog
by bestbostonsports on Aug 13, 2010 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Unfortunately, it's not freaking out over one game.
It’s “freaking out” over a very disturbing trend in one of our most valuable components on this team, our closer. Which affects multiple games.
It affects our ability to “win every series from here on out”. It affects our ability to be effective in playoffs if we should somehow be so lucky to achieve such a thing.
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
Does someone wanna tell me where the @#$% Drugs Delaney is?
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
Not so sure offering Papelbon arbitration is a smart thing.
I’ve written my concern about that before. In arbitration Paps would probably still get atleast 11M next year maybe even 12M. He is now at 0.5 WAR projecting him to finish with 0.7 WAR giving the sox roughly 3.15M value. This year almost all his peripherals are career worst: lowest K/9, most HR/9 most BB/9 and its basically a downward trend the last years. So breaking the trend and project Paps with an improvement next year to 1 WAR the sox are overpaying him 7M+. Could the Sox possibly non tender him and sign him for less money in free agency? I really think so. Who is gonna pay Paps 12M a year if he is a free agent? If you rank all relievers via xFIP Paps is around place 83, thats just not a good reliever anymore ihmo. I think the Sox should try to shop him for anything they can get and spend that 12M on players with a lesser name but better peripherals. If he continues to pitch like he did this season he even might be not a Type A Free Agent after next season.
by German Red Sox Fan on Aug 13, 2010 9:19 AM EDT reply actions
frankly his results have declined so much the last two years that I think we could win an arbitration case where we offered him less than he has this year
I know it doesn’t happen much, but I could definitely see it here. Personally, I think that if we want to spend that money on a closer, I’d much rather trade him to someone (I still feel like he’d have a bunch of value to somebody, just not quite as much as before) and sign Soriano, keeping Bard reserved for high pressure innings. Could also get someone like Gonzalez on the cheap, which could help for this year, and switch between him and Bard for closing in 2011 to wean Bard into the role. I do agree that Papelbon is not worth the money he’ll probably get.
This "blame Tito" talk is insane rubbish
It’s amazing how people get into a “mode” and then everything just fits it. If Lackey hadda been pulled and Paps coughed it up right out of the bucket, people would be saying they should have let Lackey go for the complete game, no need to pull him, only 90 pitches, blah blah blah.
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
Does someone wanna tell me where the @#$% Drugs Delaney is?
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
by Bloggy on Aug 13, 2010 11:17 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
You WOULD be right
if it wasn’t a constant recurring theme with him. He constantly makes moves to keep the biggest loudmouths quiet and then get this rep as being great with players. What about the guys who don’t act like 2 yr olds and go about their business in a professional manner…I’m looking at you, Mike Lowell. Now switch Lowell’s and Papelbons personalities. Would people still think Tito is great with players? Paps would blow that clubhouse right the F up because he’s a dink who only cares about himself
I exercise strong self control. I never drink anything stronger than gin before breakfast
I don't know what point you're arguing here.
What does Mike Lowell’s personality have to do with this game? Or anything else? You think he kept Lowell out of games because he’s quiet and dignified, but put his closer in to close a game because he’s a loudmouth? Or that he kept Lackey in at 92 pitches because he’s a loudmouth?
Is this honestly what I’m reading up there or am I missing something?
Lackey was kept in the game because of his decent pitch-count. Paps was brought in because he’s the closer. Lowell didn’t play much this year because of his wonky hip, poor range, and sub-sloth speed down the line.
Lowell is class and Papelbon is an ass and all of it is irrelevant.
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
Does someone wanna tell me where the @#$% Drugs Delaney is?
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
Papelbon is the closer because he'd throw a fit if Bard were given his rightful spot at the end of games.
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Aug 13, 2010 7:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Papelbon isn't the closer because he's being paid $10mil to close games?
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
Does someone wanna tell me where the @#$% Drugs Delaney is?
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
Kiss Pap goodbye
His performance combined with the fact he will likely make around $12mm in arbitration. He could go to the NL where the batters are less familiar, face inferior competition, and the reins can be passed to Bard.
by Jason Chalifour on Aug 13, 2010 1:43 PM EDT reply actions
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