Hell Has Froze Over: Yankees on the Verge of Acquiring Cliff Lee
by Randy Booth on Jul 9, 2010 10:55 AM EDT
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PrintDamn it, Buster Olney. Be. Wrong. Be! Wrong!:
Executive involved in Cliff Lee talks: The Yankees-Mariners deal "is just about done."
When Lee went to the Phillies, we rejoiced because he left the American League. Then he went to the AL West and we rejoiced again because, well, it's the AL West. But now it looks like Lee will be not only be in the AL East, but be a New York Yankee.
This one of those moves where Red Sox fans ask: "How can the Sox counter this move?"
In most cases, I think the answer to that question is: "They don't have to." But if this does go down, the Sox might have to pull off their own blockbuster if they want to win this year. (Ya' know, if they're not already halfway over the bridge already.)
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I'm suprised Theo was never really in the talks.
I know the team has other needs, but this is a big name and theo is usually involeved to some extent.
"If I was being paid $30,000 dollars a year, the very least I could do was hit .400."- Ted Williams
"man, this team they just suck so bad"- gizmosandy
Twitter: @BoldandBrash
LOL
Classic title… I’m still shocked if this actually happens.. I guess Javy’s days in NY are done
"If you're a Yankee fan, or if you're not a Yankee fan - you have to admit, we're winners." -Paul O'Neill
This isn't Hell freezing over
Hell freezing over will be in October, when we’re sipping champagne after we take down the Yankees in the ALCS.
No Theo, please go get us Jayson Werth. Now.
We can counter this move by getting healthy!
When healthy even if the Yankees get Lee we are the better team.
Hold on
Are you serious?
"If you're a Yankee fan, or if you're not a Yankee fan - you have to admit, we're winners." -Paul O'Neill
by Chris McKeown on Jul 9, 2010 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions
Yes I am Yankees2...
If Beckett gets back to his ’07 self, which I expect him to do. Lester and Beckett is almost as good as Sabathia and Lee.
LOL Mike-Dub! Lester may be but not Beckett
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by bestbostonsports on Jul 9, 2010 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions
With the way Hughes and Pettitte have been pitching
And if AJ is himself .. Yankees > Sox
We all know Rivera >>>> Papelbon
"If you're a Yankee fan, or if you're not a Yankee fan - you have to admit, we're winners." -Paul O'Neill
by Chris McKeown on Jul 9, 2010 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions
Of course lol
"If you're a Yankee fan, or if you're not a Yankee fan - you have to admit, we're winners." -Paul O'Neill
by Chris McKeown on Jul 9, 2010 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions
lol o'neill?
"If you're a Yankee fan, or if you're not a Yankee fan - you have to admit, we're winners." -Paul O'Neill
by Chris McKeown on Jul 9, 2010 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions
Paul O Neil did steroids?
Strikeouts are boring- Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.
by CasanovaWong on Jul 9, 2010 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions
It was news to me as well
"If you're a Yankee fan, or if you're not a Yankee fan - you have to admit, we're winners." -Paul O'Neill
by Chris McKeown on Jul 9, 2010 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions
I like Paul O’Neil
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"That place was for diehard sports fans. I only follow my team when they're in the playoffs" - Homer Simpson
by bestbostonsports on Jul 9, 2010 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions
Did Joe Morgan ever tell you that Robi Cano MIGHT win a batting title one day?
"If you're a Yankee fan, or if you're not a Yankee fan - you have to admit, we're winners." -Paul O'Neill
by Chris McKeown on Jul 9, 2010 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions
Sure did
I’m sure O’neill destroying water coolers and constantly arguing with umpires was just in his nature as a fiery competitor. It had nothing to do with roid rage. Suuuuure.
thats a good point
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by bestbostonsports on Jul 9, 2010 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions
It is possible (likely even) to argue with people and be angry without being a steroid user. I would hardly consider that to be convincing evidence.
Youk...
"With the game on the line. I want the ball in my hands."
-E
by tito (eight and oh) on Jul 9, 2010 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Ahh, so you’re basing this on rumor and conjecture. Before, it seemed like you were being authoritative. I don’t suppose you have any evidence?
I’m not saying it isn’t true, but claiming it without real evidence is bad form. At any rate, it certainly isn’t a good reason to slander another forum member.
hes not bothering anyone, leave him alone
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by bestbostonsports on Jul 9, 2010 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions
Appreciated BBS
"If you're a Yankee fan, or if you're not a Yankee fan - you have to admit, we're winners." -Paul O'Neill
by Chris McKeown on Jul 9, 2010 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions
you are welcome.
If I can be welcomed at PSA, I have no issue with you guys here
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by bestbostonsports on Jul 9, 2010 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions
Absolutely
"If you're a Yankee fan, or if you're not a Yankee fan - you have to admit, we're winners." -Paul O'Neill
by Chris McKeown on Jul 9, 2010 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions
lol
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by bestbostonsports on Jul 9, 2010 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions
Beckett back to his 07 self? …..you’re joking right? Damn dude, that’s almost as bad as the “I suffered as a Boston fan too even though I’m 18” comment on Stanley Cup of Chowder.
Have you seen him pitch the past couple seasons? That’s not happening this year, October or no October. He needs some major work.
Where do you think he's been this past month and a half?
He might not be ‘07 Beckett, but his xFIP in 2008 and 2009 were both in the low 3’s.
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Jul 9, 2010 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions
That's kinda hard to do in the NL
ERA isn’t a direct result of good pitching. Good defense, low BABIP, getting lucky can effect ERA. Those things aren’t a direct result of his quality of pitching.
"If I was being paid $30,000 dollars a year, the very least I could do was hit .400."- Ted Williams
"man, this team they just suck so bad"- gizmosandy
Twitter: @BoldandBrash
Right. I agree with you there, but it sure doesn’t hurt having a low ERA. It’s also pretty damn rare to have a terrible SP with a low ERA
Yeah
I’d love for my guys to have a low ERA, but it doesn’t tell the full story.
"If I was being paid $30,000 dollars a year, the very least I could do was hit .400."- Ted Williams
"man, this team they just suck so bad"- gizmosandy
Twitter: @BoldandBrash
I’m just saying it’s a basic, easy to understand stat that typically translates well for the casual baseball fan. Which I am….I’m not much of a number cruncher. (I hate math. With a passion.)
I respect that,
but it pains me to see fans get wrapped up in casual stats: batting average for example. Some people disregard a low avg. high OBP and SLG guy because of the avg. So what I’m saying if the fans can get deceived with some of the stats that don’t tell it all.
"If I was being paid $30,000 dollars a year, the very least I could do was hit .400."- Ted Williams
"man, this team they just suck so bad"- gizmosandy
Twitter: @BoldandBrash
This doesn't really matter
Chances are the Yanks would be getting Lee this winter anyway. Yes this means they’ve most likely got the division (at least for the fact Lee won’t be pitching complete games against them), but they didn’t really need him for that anyway. If they want to give up some prospects to get Lee a few months early, be my guest.
+1
I was saying this in the other topic as well.
They gave up an arguably Top 5 prospect in the entire minors for half a year of Cliff Lee and first crack at signing him which they probably were going to do anyway.
DFA Beckett
by South Coast Ghost on Jul 9, 2010 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions
At least the M's didn't center the deal around Upton.
"If I was being paid $30,000 dollars a year, the very least I could do was hit .400."- Ted Williams
"man, this team they just suck so bad"- gizmosandy
Twitter: @BoldandBrash
Lee really doesn't change much.
Right now we’re targeting the postseason, not the division title. After that, it’s not like they were going to be throwing some scrub out there for any postseason games.
I’m A-OK with them giving up Jesus Montero for half a season of an upgrade on an already strong rotation.
USG
What annoys me is
Lee’s been one of my favorite pitchers since he was in Cleveland. I don’t want to hate him.
this means victor in pinstripes next season
The certified ambassador of all things good and great, here at OTM.
Poor Cleveland! At least LeBron didn’t become a Knick (yet)
by cheekmeister on Jul 9, 2010 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions
So they'll give him a bunch of money to catch, and then he'll do that for less than half of his contract there.
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Jul 9, 2010 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions
yeah, I'm just saying they will go get him
The certified ambassador of all things good and great, here at OTM.
Which will force him to DH, while A-Rod keeps declining defensively at third
But Teix is over at first, so he’s stuck there. And they have to re-sign Jeter out of loyalty for a ton of money, etc. etc. etc.
This is how the Yankees work. They’ll spend 3 or 4 years at the top of everything, and then go downhill for 4 or 5 as they get old.
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Jul 9, 2010 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm not in disagreement, just stating thats the logical choice
and the MFy will get Werth
The certified ambassador of all things good and great, here at OTM.
To bump...Gardner? Or to invalidate their dealing Austin Jackson?
There’s not a lot of reason for that. And after they trade away Montero, their best prospect is Romine. They’ve gutted their already sparse farm system.
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Jul 9, 2010 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions
To rotate with Swish in RF so we have an actual bat at DH, not the corpse of Nick Johnson or Colin Curtis/Kevin Russo/Francisco Cervelli etc.
Strikeouts are boring- Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.
by CasanovaWong on Jul 9, 2010 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions
Just wait until Cito Culver is up
That’s the real reason the Yanks traded Montero, they knew Culver was just that much better.
DFA Beckett
by South Coast Ghost on Jul 9, 2010 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions
MY POINT EXACTLY
Cito is gonna start at C and when any balls are hit to SS he’s gonna out run them and gun them out at first. It’s SCIENCE!
Strikeouts are boring- Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.
by CasanovaWong on Jul 9, 2010 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions
I really don't see the logic in getting Werth
They need that DH for Posada and A-Rod (his hip is acting up IIRC)
And until there's a salary cap, it won't work otherwise.
This is just same-old same-old for us. Wish everyone would stop freaking out.
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Jul 9, 2010 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions
not a freak out, just wish we would trade away some guys and call it a year
get some prospects and look to next season
The certified ambassador of all things good and great, here at OTM.
Why?
Get the wild card, beat them in the playoffs. If it’s not do-able this year with this offense, how is it gonna be any easier next year?
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Jul 9, 2010 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions
On who? The bullpen?
They’ll always outspend us. We’ve got as good a shot now riding Beltre’s career year and Papi’s resurgence as we’ll have next year, I’d imagine.
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Jul 9, 2010 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions
on who?
Crawford?
"If I was being paid $30,000 dollars a year, the very least I could do was hit .400."- Ted Williams
"man, this team they just suck so bad"- gizmosandy
Twitter: @BoldandBrash
by BoldandBrash on Jul 9, 2010 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions
good time to freak out actuly
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by bestbostonsports on Jul 9, 2010 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions
Why?
How does this affect our ability to get into the post-season?
DFA Beckett
by South Coast Ghost on Jul 9, 2010 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions
it just gives the Yankees the title
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by bestbostonsports on Jul 9, 2010 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions
Nothing in baseball is guaranteed
I think we should all know that by now
DFA Beckett
by South Coast Ghost on Jul 9, 2010 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions
yeah Im just pissed
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by bestbostonsports on Jul 9, 2010 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions
why
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by bestbostonsports on Jul 9, 2010 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions
Because I don't see this affecting our chance at reaching the post-season
And they gave up their best prospect for a half-year rental when they probably were already going to win the division (in my mind). Lee over Vazquez is only worth a few wins for the rest of the year.
DFA Beckett
by South Coast Ghost on Jul 9, 2010 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions
Yes
But we expected the Yankees to go downhill two years ago. And they didn’t. They seem to be able to trade their minor league talent — wherever THAT comes from — and continue to play great baseball. It always works for them. HOOOOOW?
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so youre on my wagon?
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by bestbostonsports on Jul 9, 2010 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm never on your wagon, BBS
Just kidding!
I just don’t know how the Yankees do it. I swear the pinstripes or something allow them to always play great baseball. Sure, they make all these ridiculous signings and spend all this money, but it still WORKS. This team hasn’t bad in years and years and years and years. They trade prospects, spend money for other guys, but it still all works. We’ve been waiting for their farm system to be depleted, but it never does. They still have money to sign guys, they still have prospects to trade and they still either win or almost win the AL East every year.
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Well, if they trade Montero, it IS empty.
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Jul 9, 2010 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions
At least that's what we think
They’ll somehow scrounge together a few more names and acquire another player….
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Gary Sanchez will be their next big prospect
But he’s years away from being valuable enough to headline a trade for a guy like Lee.
DFA Beckett
by South Coast Ghost on Jul 9, 2010 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Nah the Yankees have other good catching prospects in the minors
Their farm system is not as bad as you think
"If you're a Yankee fan, or if you're not a Yankee fan - you have to admit, we're winners." -Paul O'Neill
by Chris McKeown on Jul 9, 2010 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions
They have Romine, who's okay
And Sanchez, who’s playing for the first time in US ball and is very young.
Anyone else?
DFA Beckett
by South Coast Ghost on Jul 9, 2010 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Corbvan Joseph, Brandon Laird, Betances is finally healthy and killing it in Tampa, Brackman is finally healthy and not walking 9 people per game, Jose Ramirez is a young fireballer. Hector Noesi has been absolutely killing AA, David Phelps killed AA and is now in Scranton. Graham Stoneburner is having a fine year. Adam Warren is too.
There’s guys there, just not as hyped as previous iterations like Ajax and Montero.
Strikeouts are boring- Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.
by CasanovaWong on Jul 9, 2010 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, he said catching prospects
Betances is a fine prospect, Brackman is having his first year of success and is otherwise old for his league (he finally made it to AA and hasn’t been stellar there). Don’t know about the younger international guys, don’t believe in Laird, and I see a few of those Stoneburner/Warren-type guys are being successful relievers, nothing more.
It’s an average system.
DFA Beckett
by South Coast Ghost on Jul 9, 2010 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions
j.r. murphy
was their 2nd round pick in 09 i think. he’s not doing that great this year, but he’s still young.
Is Romine really supposed to be that good?
His numbers aren’t amazing.
"If I was being paid $30,000 dollars a year, the very least I could do was hit .400."- Ted Williams
"man, this team they just suck so bad"- gizmosandy
Twitter: @BoldandBrash
by BoldandBrash on Jul 9, 2010 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Klaw had him on the periphery of his mid season Top 25 list. Frankie P had him in his top 25. He’s not a rock solid top 25 guy but definitely top 50 in baseball. One of the better catching prospects, a lock to stay at the position.
Strikeouts are boring- Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.
by CasanovaWong on Jul 9, 2010 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions
LOL
Well, when the GM’s name is Cashman, it says it all…
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by bestbostonsports on Jul 9, 2010 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, they missed the playoffs entirely in 2008
Wasn’t exactly a great year for them. Then they used money to reload, money that will be tied up in aging players for a long time. I know it seems like their players age better than any other teams’, but I don’t think that continues forever. And their farm system wasn’t that bad going into the year, but they’ve essentially shipped out their top 3 prospects for players. They’re pretty much empty now.
DFA Beckett
by South Coast Ghost on Jul 9, 2010 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions
2008 was the culmination of their down period.
Then they dumped contracts and spent big. It’ll happen again. It’s cycles. Sure, they made the postseason in ‘05, ’06, and ’07, but they missed the WS. A team that spends $200 million isn’t gonna collapse and go 75-87.
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Jul 9, 2010 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions
neither will a payroll like ours
"If I was being paid $30,000 dollars a year, the very least I could do was hit .400."- Ted Williams
"man, this team they just suck so bad"- gizmosandy
Twitter: @BoldandBrash
by BoldandBrash on Jul 9, 2010 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah
For a team with that kind of payroll, not making it out of the ALDS will be considered a “down year”
DFA Beckett
by South Coast Ghost on Jul 9, 2010 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Umm what, why?
Trading Montero seems to be contingent of Romine being seen as the heir to the C position. Why on earth would they sign Victor Martinez?
Strikeouts are boring- Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.
by CasanovaWong on Jul 9, 2010 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions
Because Austin Romine OPSing .700 isn't gonna fit the bill for Yankees fans.
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Jul 9, 2010 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions
And Victor Martinez not being physically able to catch would?
Strikeouts are boring- Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.
by CasanovaWong on Jul 9, 2010 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions
He'd be able to catch for a year or two.
Is a $30 million DH Alex Rodriguez gonna fit the bill in 5 years? You guys ignore the end of contracts all the time.
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Jul 9, 2010 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions
If Martinez can catch for a year or two then Posada sure as heck can too. Not to mention he could split time with Cervelli and Romine later on.
Strikeouts are boring- Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.
by CasanovaWong on Jul 9, 2010 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions
I think he was saying because Lee and Sabathia will both be there
of course it’s silly and won’t happen
Rosenthal's saying Werth to Yanks is a longshot
Although is Rosenthal…
DFA Beckett
by South Coast Ghost on Jul 9, 2010 11:17 AM EDT reply actions
Good
Once Montero is traded, we will trade Lars, Kalish, and Doubront for him and turn him into a Yankee killer. BWUHAAAAAHHAAA
"If I was being paid $30,000 dollars a year, the very least I could do was hit .400."- Ted Williams
"man, this team they just suck so bad"- gizmosandy
Twitter: @BoldandBrash
into a Yankee killer
"If I was being paid $30,000 dollars a year, the very least I could do was hit .400."- Ted Williams
"man, this team they just suck so bad"- gizmosandy
Twitter: @BoldandBrash
by BoldandBrash on Jul 9, 2010 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions
meh
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by bestbostonsports on Jul 9, 2010 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions
UUUGGGGHHH
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by bestbostonsports on Jul 9, 2010 11:20 AM EDT reply actions
LMAO!
PSA is saying Sabathia is better than Lester! haha I pulled out the 2.91(Lester) to 3.78 FIP.
I LOVE PEDROIA!!! ITS MAN LOVE!
LOL
No chance
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by bestbostonsports on Jul 9, 2010 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions
I said Lester better than all their pitchers and they went all up in arms.
I post that FIP not one response!
I LOVE PEDROIA!!! ITS MAN LOVE!
Lester is better
dont let them bother you
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by bestbostonsports on Jul 9, 2010 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions
Well... Sabathia is fatter.
"If I was being paid $30,000 dollars a year, the very least I could do was hit .400."- Ted Williams
"man, this team they just suck so bad"- gizmosandy
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by BoldandBrash on Jul 9, 2010 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions
really?
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by bestbostonsports on Jul 9, 2010 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions
Yes
"If I was being paid $30,000 dollars a year, the very least I could do was hit .400."- Ted Williams
"man, this team they just suck so bad"- gizmosandy
Twitter: @BoldandBrash
by BoldandBrash on Jul 9, 2010 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions
Im shocked
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by bestbostonsports on Jul 9, 2010 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions
Definitely...
…the most fearsome pitcher in the league. If you’re a high-calorie foodstuff covered in cheese.
Wait 'til next/this year?
"Laser show. So relax."
by nuthinboutnuthin on Jul 9, 2010 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions
I need a place to discuss Yankee hate
and TT is a ghost town right now, so I figured, what better place then here?
I need to vent, as the Yankees are on the verge of stomping another one of my dreams…
"Baseball is the only major sport that appears backward in a mirror" ~George Carlin
by thewild_viking_twins on Jul 9, 2010 11:27 AM EDT reply actions
TT?
and Im with you
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by bestbostonsports on Jul 9, 2010 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions
twinke town
"If I was being paid $30,000 dollars a year, the very least I could do was hit .400."- Ted Williams
"man, this team they just suck so bad"- gizmosandy
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by BoldandBrash on Jul 9, 2010 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions
oh ok
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by bestbostonsports on Jul 9, 2010 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions
You can top Montero
With Joe Mauer!
DFA Beckett
by South Coast Ghost on Jul 9, 2010 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions
Bring the venting
Go for it, bro.
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I think the M's are definitely getting the best deal here.
"If I was being paid $30,000 dollars a year, the very least I could do was hit .400."- Ted Williams
"man, this team they just suck so bad"- gizmosandy
Twitter: @BoldandBrash
maybe in the future
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by bestbostonsports on Jul 9, 2010 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions
I meant out of the other potential bidders.
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by BoldandBrash on Jul 9, 2010 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions
This is actually kinda fun.
No more about Lebron and his douchery.
"If I was being paid $30,000 dollars a year, the very least I could do was hit .400."- Ted Williams
"man, this team they just suck so bad"- gizmosandy
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yeah…
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by bestbostonsports on Jul 9, 2010 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions
pitching
Lester and Buckholz are better than just about everyone in the American leauge, check there ERA, thats what counts., everything else is irrelevent. Lee is a good pitcher, but he will be 33 in a couple of weeks, and is prone to injurys, and he wants a 4 or 5 year contract. Let the Yanks pay through the nose to get him, and then watch him breakdown. The last thing the Sox need is another injured player. Theo stay clear of this guy, hes a disaster wating to happen. We already payed for our own disaster in Beckett.
Plenty of things can effect ERA that are out of the pitcher's control.
Therefore, it’s not the be all end all for judging a pitcher.
"If I was being paid $30,000 dollars a year, the very least I could do was hit .400."- Ted Williams
"man, this team they just suck so bad"- gizmosandy
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by BoldandBrash on Jul 9, 2010 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, that statement is actually pretty funny
Not as bad as: “check their win-loss record, that’s what counts. Everything else is irrelevent.”
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ERA is important. Other stuff matters though
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by bestbostonsports on Jul 9, 2010 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Is it more important than other stuff?
Like, FIP, xFIP, K’s, BB’s, GB%, FB%, WHIP? No, it’s not
DFA Beckett
by South Coast Ghost on Jul 9, 2010 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Ugh...
Wow, take a sh!t in my coffee, why don’t you, MLB?
I’m not sure how appreciably better this actually makes the Yankees. Definitely a great talent add, but are they that much more devastating than they were last night? Not really. More ridiculous, though? Definitely…
All I ask is that it’s not one of those Yankee-cupcake deals where the Yanks get multiple All-Stars in exchange for a middling prospect and some of George Steinbrenner’s dirty linens (no reason it should be though). Of course, the stink-eye there is on the other teams, not the Yanks.
Wait 'til next/this year?
"Laser show. So relax."
by nuthinboutnuthin on Jul 9, 2010 12:03 PM EDT reply actions
Montero will be involved in the trade.
And for that I am eternally grateful. That’s a weapon for the next ten years gone for the MFY.
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Jul 9, 2010 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Now we just need to get rid of Hellickson...
who might be making his debut soon
"If I was being paid $30,000 dollars a year, the very least I could do was hit .400."- Ted Williams
"man, this team they just suck so bad"- gizmosandy
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by BoldandBrash on Jul 9, 2010 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions
+1
Honestly, though, there was no indication from anyone not wearing pinstripes that he could handle catching at all. They already have a $22MM aav 1B and a $30MM aav DH-to-be, so where do they stash him on the field?
Wait 'til next/this year?
"Laser show. So relax."
by nuthinboutnuthin on Jul 9, 2010 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions
There was no indication that Victor could handle catching either.
Still worth it to throw him behind the plate.
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Jul 9, 2010 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions
or Carlos Santana
"If I was being paid $30,000 dollars a year, the very least I could do was hit .400."- Ted Williams
"man, this team they just suck so bad"- gizmosandy
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by BoldandBrash on Jul 9, 2010 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions
He's fairly horrendous at throwing people out
"If you're a Yankee fan, or if you're not a Yankee fan - you have to admit, we're winners." -Paul O'Neill
by Chris McKeown on Jul 9, 2010 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes
Kevin Cash seems good now!
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by bestbostonsports on Jul 9, 2010 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Montero is a far cry from even VMart quality catching.
He’s just too big and slow. He’s a bad receiver and he’s atrocious at throwing out runners. He’s not a catcher. M’s probably view him as 1B of the future.
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When you read reports of him
You see the word “sluggish” multiple times.
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He has a rocket arm, which saves him from being totally useless back there. His main problem is in getting up to throw through fast enough, but that is a footwork issue as much as a size issue, and it’s been something he’s been working his butt off at AAA.
And his CS numbers have been on the rise all season. He’s never going to be Pudge back there, but I wouldn’t rule out him at least being a part time catcher in the bigs.
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The more I think about it..
They traded their best prospect and others for a guy they could have signed in the winter. It’s like they went into panic mode and thought they couldn’t win it all this year.
"If I was being paid $30,000 dollars a year, the very least I could do was hit .400."- Ted Williams
"man, this team they just suck so bad"- gizmosandy
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I agree
It’s like they traded away a Top 5 prospect in all of minordom just so they don’t have to face Lee in the playoffs.
DFA Beckett
by South Coast Ghost on Jul 9, 2010 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions
But still,
If he went to Texas or Min, the Yankees still beat those teams.
"If I was being paid $30,000 dollars a year, the very least I could do was hit .400."- Ted Williams
"man, this team they just suck so bad"- gizmosandy
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by BoldandBrash on Jul 9, 2010 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Possibly
But would be much closer compared to if they get Lee
DFA Beckett
by South Coast Ghost on Jul 9, 2010 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions
He was never destined to be the catcher for NY
Austin Romine is much better defensively.
"If you're a Yankee fan, or if you're not a Yankee fan - you have to admit, we're winners." -Paul O'Neill
by Chris McKeown on Jul 9, 2010 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions
it would be nice if Theo made a move
we need some pen help, an inf, and an Of
and we get silence
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How many guys are out there that
we could get in a deal that would be valuable to us? There aren’t that many bullpen guys available because nobody is “out of it yet”. We’re just not going to get a replacement for Hall at all, and if we do, it will probably be involved with another deal.
"If I was being paid $30,000 dollars a year, the very least I could do was hit .400."- Ted Williams
"man, this team they just suck so bad"- gizmosandy
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by BoldandBrash on Jul 9, 2010 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions
give me a break, we are just trigger shy
if we are not going to be aggressive and make moves, then we need to sell off.
you can make deals without selling the farm.
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Not early you can't.
Because teams hold out for more.
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Jul 9, 2010 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Great
let’s trade Kalish, Lars, and Bowden for Werth. That’s a great move. We can also trade Kelly and Doubront for Thornton.
"If I was being paid $30,000 dollars a year, the very least I could do was hit .400."- Ted Williams
"man, this team they just suck so bad"- gizmosandy
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by BoldandBrash on Jul 9, 2010 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions
I know,
but you’re saying that we need to do stuff NOW. You can’t just make a deal in a couple of days for a guy that teams don’t really want to trade. I bet you wanted to trade Buch last year. The point is that you have to give up something to get someting. It’s not guaranteed that the prospects will ever reach or flourish in the majors, but you can’t just go crazy and trade the future.
"If I was being paid $30,000 dollars a year, the very least I could do was hit .400."- Ted Williams
"man, this team they just suck so bad"- gizmosandy
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by BoldandBrash on Jul 9, 2010 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions
I wanted to do something prior to now.
i would have traded buch last year for Agonz-guilty as charged.
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As we know now
San Diego was only half-interested in trading A-Gon. It would’ve taken much more than Buch to land him in the offseason and it seems to have worked out so far for both teams.
DFA Beckett
by South Coast Ghost on Jul 9, 2010 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions
I can understand that, but that is the problem.
Nobody is out of the race. Hell, there are 3 team races in multiple divisions, and there is always the wild card. Nobody wants to give up a valuable major leaguer for prospects or other players that won’t help that team win this year. Plus, the other teams don’t need our prospects or money right now, so they will hold out until the deadline hoping to get a better offer. I would like to see the sox in more rumors, but there isn’t much they can do now that would get them a player which would be considered an improvement.
"If I was being paid $30,000 dollars a year, the very least I could do was hit .400."- Ted Williams
"man, this team they just suck so bad"- gizmosandy
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by BoldandBrash on Jul 9, 2010 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Look at the White Sox
We were all discussing which bullpen arms we could take, and suddenly they’re back in it.
DFA Beckett
by South Coast Ghost on Jul 9, 2010 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions
that's my point
"If I was being paid $30,000 dollars a year, the very least I could do was hit .400."- Ted Williams
"man, this team they just suck so bad"- gizmosandy
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by BoldandBrash on Jul 9, 2010 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree with your point!
I don’t really want Dotel or Ohman
DFA Beckett
by South Coast Ghost on Jul 9, 2010 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah
We could easily get these bullpen guys (Wood included), but would they even be an improvement? In a sense, you do get what you pay for.
"If I was being paid $30,000 dollars a year, the very least I could do was hit .400."- Ted Williams
"man, this team they just suck so bad"- gizmosandy
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by BoldandBrash on Jul 9, 2010 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Id like Ohman, hes having a good year
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by bestbostonsports on Jul 9, 2010 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Is he?
He’s walking a ton of guys this year, and his FIP and xFIP both say he’s much worse than his ERA. His WHIP this year is actually worse than RamRam’s.
DFA Beckett
by South Coast Ghost on Jul 9, 2010 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions
For example: Dejesus or Soria or both
the Royals Gm is hoping to “hit a home run with the deal”. Unless Theo were to become crazy and go for whatever KC says, the deal will take weeks to happen. This is because they will want to see what other teams offer and then see if Theo’s offer is better or ask him to match it.
"If I was being paid $30,000 dollars a year, the very least I could do was hit .400."- Ted Williams
"man, this team they just suck so bad"- gizmosandy
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by BoldandBrash on Jul 9, 2010 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions
This is the first big trade to happen (if it happens)
Are you really going to use this as an attack on Theo?
DFA Beckett
by South Coast Ghost on Jul 9, 2010 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions
the pen has needed fixed for weeks, it has nothing to do with this deal
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They've finally brought up Manuel
And have moved Bowden to the bullpen to hopefully pave the way for him to come up as well. They haven’t traded for Octavio Dotel yet, no, but I’m not going to blame them for that.
DFA Beckett
by South Coast Ghost on Jul 9, 2010 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Well said, Bloggy
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Do the Red Sox HAVe to make a move now? Any chance of Oswalt?
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by bestbostonsports on Jul 9, 2010 12:50 PM EDT reply actions
Him coming from the NL worries me a little.
When is his contract over? It would all depend on the asking price and what other teams are offering.
"If I was being paid $30,000 dollars a year, the very least I could do was hit .400."- Ted Williams
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by BoldandBrash on Jul 9, 2010 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Two years.
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by bestbostonsports on Jul 9, 2010 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions
2 years after this season?
Let’s not forget we have Beckett coming back , but it’s no guarantee that he will be good coming back.
"If I was being paid $30,000 dollars a year, the very least I could do was hit .400."- Ted Williams
"man, this team they just suck so bad"- gizmosandy
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by BoldandBrash on Jul 9, 2010 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions
No, this year then next.
And Beckett… meh. Id rather have Oswalt. I just dont know who we’d give up. Kelly, Rizzo, Vitek, and Kalish are untouchable for me.
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by bestbostonsports on Jul 9, 2010 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Why would you rather have Oswalt?
DFA Beckett
by South Coast Ghost on Jul 9, 2010 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Hes better.
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by bestbostonsports on Jul 9, 2010 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions
That is false
"If I was being paid $30,000 dollars a year, the very least I could do was hit .400."- Ted Williams
"man, this team they just suck so bad"- gizmosandy
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by BoldandBrash on Jul 9, 2010 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Everybody feel free to mosey on down to my comment with stats.
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"man, this team they just suck so bad"- gizmosandy
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sorry
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by bestbostonsports on Jul 9, 2010 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Why does everybody dismiss Beckett?
He wasn’t cy young, but he was pretty damn good last year and in 07.
"If I was being paid $30,000 dollars a year, the very least I could do was hit .400."- Ted Williams
"man, this team they just suck so bad"- gizmosandy
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by BoldandBrash on Jul 9, 2010 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Look at him the last few years. Alwways hurt, a prima donna, and not that good anymore. hes out #4 at best.
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by bestbostonsports on Jul 9, 2010 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions
He's not our #4 at best
That is false as well.
DFA Beckett
by South Coast Ghost on Jul 9, 2010 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Lester Buchholz Lackey beckett Wake
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by bestbostonsports on Jul 9, 2010 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Nope
Can’t agree with that
DFA Beckett
by South Coast Ghost on Jul 9, 2010 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions
NO
Let’s throw out this year becuase Beckett is hurt. 07-09
Beckett: Fip- 3.08, 3.24, 3.63. xFIP-3.43, 3.24, 3.25 WAR-6.5, 5.0, 5.3
Oswalt: FIP- 3.59, 3.80, 3.76 xFIP- 4.08, 3.55, 3.88 WAR- 4.6, 3.6, 3.1
"If I was being paid $30,000 dollars a year, the very least I could do was hit .400."- Ted Williams
"man, this team they just suck so bad"- gizmosandy
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That's insane
Beckett had virtually the same year as Lester last year.
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The rotation is full
No way would the Sox add a 30 million+ commitment and trade prospects to strengthen the teams biggest strength. Oswalt makes absolutely no sense.
by SendEmHomeKim on Jul 9, 2010 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions
what do they do to counter this move?
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by bestbostonsports on Jul 9, 2010 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Hopefully something that makes sense,
or nothing at all.
by SendEmHomeKim on Jul 9, 2010 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Not panicking
And don’t make a move just to make a move
DFA Beckett
by South Coast Ghost on Jul 9, 2010 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions
well they need to do something
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by bestbostonsports on Jul 9, 2010 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybe the Sox should make some additions.
How about a former World Series MVP starter, a speedy leadoff hitting LF, an All-Star starting catcher and an MVP 2b.
by SendEmHomeKim on Jul 9, 2010 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Sounds expensive
How many prospects would we have to give up-ohnowait…
DFA Beckett
by South Coast Ghost on Jul 9, 2010 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions
good point
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by bestbostonsports on Jul 9, 2010 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions
They don't need to make a huge blockbuster
Unless it really favors the Sox
DFA Beckett
by South Coast Ghost on Jul 9, 2010 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions
No to Oswalt
Age, league, and overall numbers don’t impress me
DFA Beckett
by South Coast Ghost on Jul 9, 2010 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions
OK, what would you do?
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by bestbostonsports on Jul 9, 2010 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Look into Werth
I dunno, see if there’s a young cost-controlled guy out there who could be had who might need a chance of scenery (like Matt Kemp, although that’s a pipe dream).
Otherwise, give Bowden more time in the bullpen down in Pawtucket, bring him up sometime after the ASB if he’s acclimating to the role well.
Otherwise, don’t panic and work at treading water until we can get healthy.
DFA Beckett
by South Coast Ghost on Jul 9, 2010 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Id love Kemp, but that wont happen
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by bestbostonsports on Jul 9, 2010 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions
He's picked it up as of late
"If I was being paid $30,000 dollars a year, the very least I could do was hit .400."- Ted Williams
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I don't think Kemp is that far-fetched.
Seems like the Dodgers aren’t that high on him. He’s been benched for hustle related issues I believe, and he will be getting more expensive. L.A has a liquidity problem that will get worse with the McCourt divorce heating up. He could be a ripe target.
by SendEmHomeKim on Jul 9, 2010 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions
I still think he's young enough and talented enough that they'll continue to play him
Is it impossible? No, but I don’t think it’s probable at this point.
DFA Beckett
by South Coast Ghost on Jul 9, 2010 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions
I would love to have Kemp, but LA wants pitching.
Would Bowden be in that deal? Would it be reasonable to give him up for Kemp?
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by bestbostonsports on Jul 9, 2010 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions
It would have to be a TON for them to trade him.
Think Kelly, Kalish, probably Bowden or Doubront and some low level guys. They’re not really in a position to trade him.
"If I was being paid $30,000 dollars a year, the very least I could do was hit .400."- Ted Williams
"man, this team they just suck so bad"- gizmosandy
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How about Reddick, Gibson, and Ellsbury?
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by bestbostonsports on Jul 9, 2010 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Ells could be a key part,
but you’d need to throw in pitching most likely. Maybe Bowden or Doubront and a low level guy like Stolmy. It would just take a ton to get him.
"If I was being paid $30,000 dollars a year, the very least I could do was hit .400."- Ted Williams
"man, this team they just suck so bad"- gizmosandy
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Yeah
but I mean, anything can happen if you give the right guys. If something like this would ever happen, Kalish and Kelly would automatically have to be in it.
"If I was being paid $30,000 dollars a year, the very least I could do was hit .400."- Ted Williams
"man, this team they just suck so bad"- gizmosandy
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Kelly for Kemp? I don’t think so.
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by bestbostonsports on Jul 9, 2010 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't think he's close to available
without an absolutely crazy return. I mean, we’re talking a great young outfielder quite cheap, with years of team control
I don't know how much I like this deal
We already had 5 good starters and we’re losing a great prospect. It does help secure the division, but that’s all it does, help. Some people look right they’re ready to celebrate a 2010 World Series Victory today, I don’t get it at all. I’m not ready to assume playoffs.
Nice title, but I always had a gut feeling (albeit, a bad one) that the Yankees would pull the trigger and trade for him.
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I'm a little shocked.
I thought nobody could beat the Yankees in a playoff series, maybe the sox if everyone was healthy and everything clicked. Sure Montero might never catch in MLB, but he has an outstanding bat, and I think he’s only 20.
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Seattle gets over big time in this proposal
I just cannot see Cashman doing this. He protected him last year from trades. The only way I could see this happening is if one of their starters is about to go on the DL. Then it might make sense.
"Man that ball got outta here in a hurry, you know anything that travels that far oughta have a damn stewardess on it, don't you think?" - Crash Davis
Agree about Seattle making out well.
I’d be happy to see this happen. I wish Cashman had traded Hughes and Joba for Santana and I hope he trades Montero.
by SendEmHomeKim on Jul 9, 2010 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Seattle has been a laughing-stock for long enough
I’m glad they seem to have a competent GM now.
"You know you're having a bad day when the fifth inning rolls around and they drag the warning track." - Mike Flanagan, Baltimore Orioles pitcher, 1992.
No need to panic
True getting Lee will make the Yankees a better team, but when you get into the playoffs it’s all about who’s hot. I like a duo of Lester and Buchholz. All you need is a bad turn or two out of an ace, which happens all the time.
Rather than dwelling on what the Yankees are doing, the Sox need to focus on fixing their woes. Certainly, a bullpen arm is necessary. Depending on the cost, trading for Werth would be nice given the depletion in our outfield. Cam isn’t going to be himself all year (needs offseason surgery, if I remember correctly), and who knows when Ellsbury will be back. He doesn’t seem to be in any hurry.
"You know you're having a bad day when the fifth inning rolls around and they drag the warning track." - Mike Flanagan, Baltimore Orioles pitcher, 1992.
I'd be surprised if he wasn't
There’s rarely been build-up in Theo’s tenure when a deal is about to go down.
"You know you're having a bad day when the fifth inning rolls around and they drag the warning track." - Mike Flanagan, Baltimore Orioles pitcher, 1992.
or that Skype thing
"If I was being paid $30,000 dollars a year, the very least I could do was hit .400."- Ted Williams
"man, this team they just suck so bad"- gizmosandy
Twitter: @BoldandBrash
unnesscary shot at Ellsbury. Hes hurt, Im sure hed love to play in his arbitration year.
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"That place was for diehard sports fans. I only follow my team when they're in the playoffs" - Homer Simpson
by bestbostonsports on Jul 9, 2010 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions
I understand he's hurt
But I do feel like he could be making more of an effort to the team and the fans that he’s itching to get back. That’s just my perspective as a fan—just because it isn’t reported doesn’t mean that he hasn’t done just that with his teammates.
"You know you're having a bad day when the fifth inning rolls around and they drag the warning track." - Mike Flanagan, Baltimore Orioles pitcher, 1992.
I love that you guys think Theo is not doing his job.
I am sure Theo is working the phones, but unless you want to give up Casey Kelly for Ryan Theriot, I would let him do his magic his way.
He did get Vmart for a hand full of beans and a relief arm that cannot get lefties out.
Nobody read the comments on MLBTR
They will corrupt you. Some guy thinks the sox should trade Kalish, Bowden, and Gibson for Werth? Has he lost his mind?
"If I was being paid $30,000 dollars a year, the very least I could do was hit .400."- Ted Williams
"man, this team they just suck so bad"- gizmosandy
Twitter: @BoldandBrash
Thats stupid
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"That place was for diehard sports fans. I only follow my team when they're in the playoffs" - Homer Simpson
by bestbostonsports on Jul 9, 2010 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions
He's panicking
Like lots of Sox fans right now. I can only imagine what the Boston Globe message boards look like now shudder
DFA Beckett
by South Coast Ghost on Jul 9, 2010 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Third piece in the deal rumored to be Yankees AAA pitcher Zach McAllister, whom I really like.
And if you’re wondering how I feel about gutting the farm system of an elite hitter like Montero, for a rental of a 32 year old pitcher who is going to sign an albatross extension…..well I think I just told you.
Questions or thoughts? Email me at duggan2423(at)gmail(dot)com
Damn
that’s a pretty nice haul for Seattle. The net gain of trading for Lee and then trading him might be greater than the prospects it took to trade for him.
"If I was being paid $30,000 dollars a year, the very least I could do was hit .400."- Ted Williams
"man, this team they just suck so bad"- gizmosandy
Twitter: @BoldandBrash
To get him, Seattle gave up J.C. Ramirez, Phillippe Aumont, and Tyson Gilles, all of whom are currently sucking at AA.
I know prospectin’ is sometimes as much about quantity as quality, but I’d take Montero over the three of those guys. And if they’re throwing in other pieces it’s just a travesty from the Yankees front office part.
Questions or thoughts? Email me at duggan2423(at)gmail(dot)com
You guys gotta win it all this year,
or it was all for nothing.
"If I was being paid $30,000 dollars a year, the very least I could do was hit .400."- Ted Williams
"man, this team they just suck so bad"- gizmosandy
Twitter: @BoldandBrash
Which is ridiculous. The baseball playoffs are totally a crapshoot. Remember when the Cardinals won a few years ago with their .500 team?
I don’t care if we get the few marginal wins of replacing Javy Vazquez with Lee for the second half, it doesn’t make us THAT much better, and certainly doesn’t make us “guaranteed” to win anything.
Even with Lee, if A-Rod’s hip flares up, Adrian Beltre breaks Swisher’s ribs at the ASG, and CC breaks down from the continual 260 inning seasons, the Yankees could still not even make the playoffs with how ridiculous the AL East is. And then what will we have to show for trading an elite prospect?
Questions or thoughts? Email me at duggan2423(at)gmail(dot)com
I haven't paid attention to all of his moves big and small,
but what’s your opinion on Cashman?
"If I was being paid $30,000 dollars a year, the very least I could do was hit .400."- Ted Williams
"man, this team they just suck so bad"- gizmosandy
Twitter: @BoldandBrash
His biggest asset and skill is of course the use of the Steinbrenner’s never ending war chest. He has made some good signings and some bad signings in his career, but has been a lot better as of late.
Cash was one of the driving forces to getting away from the “overpay for old free agents who used to be good” and back into the high risk, high reward, redevelop the system, but still go out and get somebody if an elite talent like CC or Tex pops up on the market. And I loved that.
And him and Girardi have been in front all along about developing Hughes and Chamberlain in a responsible way. Joe Torre would have already burned both of those guys out and they’d be on the scrap heap.
So, as of late, I have been very happy with him, but if this happens……not so much.
Questions or thoughts? Email me at duggan2423(at)gmail(dot)com
Beltre crushing Swisher at the ASG, eh???????
….hmmmmmm….not a bad plan……..
>strokes beard maniacally<
Galactus does as he pleases. Because Galactus is drunk.
@#$%ing Twit: @blogtard
I hope so
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"That place was for diehard sports fans. I only follow my team when they're in the playoffs" - Homer Simpson
by bestbostonsports on Jul 9, 2010 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Seriously, I don’t know how you guys deal with that dude. Is it part of his WAR? Wins he has cost the Sox by putting half of their outfield on the DL to be replaced with the immortal Bill Hall?
Questions or thoughts? Email me at duggan2423(at)gmail(dot)com
You cant blame Beltre for a freak thing
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"That place was for diehard sports fans. I only follow my team when they're in the playoffs" - Homer Simpson
by bestbostonsports on Jul 9, 2010 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t blame him, I just think it’s outrageous. Do you have any clever nicknames for him here, like “The Wrecking Ball?”
Questions or thoughts? Email me at duggan2423(at)gmail(dot)com
The Recching ball is Mark Recchi
Join the Lacrosse community at theprolaxblog.blogspot.com
Talk about Boston sports at http://www.bestbostonsports.com/
"That place was for diehard sports fans. I only follow my team when they're in the playoffs" - Homer Simpson
by bestbostonsports on Jul 9, 2010 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions
They really didn't get that much.
McAllister is a back end guy at best and Adams is pretty unexciting.
Montero is the prize, but its one good prospect… he just turned out to be a much better prospect than was anticipated.
Bullpen Banter
www.bullpenbanter.com
twitter: @alskor
OTOH
The Yankees are kind of crazy to give up that one big prospect when they still have to give Lee a megadeal.
Bullpen Banter
www.bullpenbanter.com
twitter: @alskor
Adams is having a huge year,
and Mcallister is only struggling as of this year. I haven’t read any scouting reports, maybe they say otherwise.
"If I was being paid $30,000 dollars a year, the very least I could do was hit .400."- Ted Williams
"man, this team they just suck so bad"- gizmosandy
Twitter: @BoldandBrash
For that price they could've had Roy Halladay for a whole season and a window to negotiate an extension!
They now paying it for 3 months of Lee: Great job cash!
agreed
but the Yankees do not care about giving up prospects. They want to win WS now and to hell with 5 years down the road.
Well, they'll just hope the FA market is good.
like it was with CC, Tex, and Burnett. The sox would be like this, but the Yankees will always outbid them, so they really can’t do it.
"If I was being paid $30,000 dollars a year, the very least I could do was hit .400."- Ted Williams
"man, this team they just suck so bad"- gizmosandy
Twitter: @BoldandBrash
Bid on whom?
even if there are top FAs, the Yankees will have a 300 million+ payroll. Sooner or latter than has to be a ceiling during the worst recession since 1929 even for the Yankees.
And again Cliff Lee guarantees nothing to the Yankees. They are in the playoffs already.
Sigh, I thought we were past that, but all signs point to that being correct.
Questions or thoughts? Email me at duggan2423(at)gmail(dot)com
Yup
They’ll fish around FA down the road
"If you're a Yankee fan, or if you're not a Yankee fan - you have to admit, we're winners." -Paul O'Neill
by Chris McKeown on Jul 9, 2010 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions
weve been saying that a while yet they are still in it.
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"That place was for diehard sports fans. I only follow my team when they're in the playoffs" - Homer Simpson
by bestbostonsports on Jul 9, 2010 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions
That is a kings ransom for a 32 year old soft tossing lefty. If there’s an hour special on ESPN with Cliff Lee sitting in a chair and cleverly taunting Seattle, I will truly be upset.
Questions or thoughts? Email me at duggan2423(at)gmail(dot)com
LOL +1
"If you're a Yankee fan, or if you're not a Yankee fan - you have to admit, we're winners." -Paul O'Neill
by Chris McKeown on Jul 9, 2010 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Gave up too much
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"That place was for diehard sports fans. I only follow my team when they're in the playoffs" - Homer Simpson
by bestbostonsports on Jul 9, 2010 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions
I disagree
Because of this trade, when the Yanks re-sign Lee in the off season, they will not have to give up compensatory draft picks. Montero has no future with the club as it is currently constructed. He is not going to be a C, and 1st is locked up by Teixeira.
"Man you are one pathetic loser. No offense." - Lloyd Christmas
by Lloyd Christmas on Jul 9, 2010 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Look how the Yankees used their first round pick this year.
The compensatory pick isn’t a big deal for them. Giving up an established top-5 prospect like Montero is.
USG
Yeah, Montero > 1st Round Pick at this point
By adding in a few more pieces with Montero they probably could have gotten someone more cost-controlled.
DFA Beckett
by South Coast Ghost on Jul 9, 2010 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Is that really an issue for the Yanks?
"Man you are one pathetic loser. No offense." - Lloyd Christmas
by Lloyd Christmas on Jul 9, 2010 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Not enough > in there.
Montero is worth a bunch of first round picks at this point. He’s on the verge of being a major league ready impact bat at 20-years-old, with a possibility (however slight) of doing it as a catcher. The Yankees would be drafting at the end of the round. He’s not Bryce Harper, but he’s not as far off as all that.
USG
My comment was to the cost controlled comment
Cost is not an issue for the Yanks.
"Man you are one pathetic loser. No offense." - Lloyd Christmas
by Lloyd Christmas on Jul 9, 2010 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Why does this move surprise anyone?
The Yankees have a very short window, similar to the Celtics. Jeter, Javy and Mariano are getting old. They would of locked up Lee in the off season.
Yankees are going for 3 or 4 WS wins before all their players are just old hacks making huge money.
Let em trade their future away. Cliff Lee does not guarantee anyone the WS.
I disagree about the window closing. As we all know, the Yankees have enough financial room to swallow some bad back ends of contracts, and still have a great young core in Cano, Granderson, Gardner, Hughes, Chamberlain, and some guys coming up through the system.
Sprinkle in a few free agents, and guys like Sabathia who are aging, but still able to contribute, and the Yankees certainly weren’t going to be rolling over 5 years from now.
Questions or thoughts? Email me at duggan2423(at)gmail(dot)com
So the Yankees are prepared to
pay Mariano and Jeter big money/4 year deals and then eat money on dealing Vasquez and then add to their payroll replacements for Jeter, Mariano and Javy as well as keeping these three on the bench?
So we are talking what now 300 million? 350? 400 Million?
Boss is almost dead, Jeter is almost retired as is Javy, Pettite and Mariano.
Yankee window is about 2 or 3 years.
They won't give Mariano 4 years
They’ll probably start taking it one year at a time with him, considering he’s 40 years old
"If you're a Yankee fan, or if you're not a Yankee fan - you have to admit, we're winners." -Paul O'Neill
by Chris McKeown on Jul 9, 2010 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Mariano is worth it, he is showing no signs of slowing down, and has the easiest most controlled delivery ever.
Jeet will probably take some type of pay cut.
If Javy makes it to the end of the year without getting flipped at the deadline (assuming we get Lee), the Yankees will offer him arbitration, which he will probably decline.
The only REAL bad deals on the books for the future are A-Rod, Burnett, and whatever Jeter will sign this offseason.
Questions or thoughts? Email me at duggan2423(at)gmail(dot)com
Wake up people
and get your heads out of your arses. MLB, with its dumb-ass owners (except for Henry) doesn’t seem to care if a team spends a gazillion dollars and then wins 3-4 pennants in a row and goes to the playoffs 16 out of 17 years. The Yankees finally woke up and learned who was worth the money and nobody else – including us – is going to be able to compete with them. I said it 18 months ago when they spent $450 million in two weeks to get C.C. Tex, and A.J…..and now Cliff Lee???
Maybe after these greedy a-holes win four or five more championships in a row, the rest of baseball will wake up and level things out as they are in other pro sports.
Some things may have changed. Payroll whine from the second highest payroll in baseball will never die.
John Lackey, Adrian Beltre, Marco Scutaro, J.D. Drew, and Dice-K just came to Boston for their fun loving attitude, chowder, and a chance to meet Dustin Pedroia, right?
Questions or thoughts? Email me at duggan2423(at)gmail(dot)com
Adrian Beltre took a lesser contract so he could be a free agent after this year
I think it was Oakland who offered him more. Scutaro was in a similar situation I believe.
DFA Beckett
by South Coast Ghost on Jul 9, 2010 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah...
…here I have to differ. Even counting our ~ $ 23MM in dead salary (and I include Mike Lowell in there),* the Yankees are still spending roughly $ 45MM more than the Sox. So, like a Mark Teixiera and a C.C. Sabathia with enough left over to pay a semi-premium relief arm or pay for CC’s allotment of cheeseburgers (but not both). Or, alternatively, the Florida Marlins’ entire roster minus Leo Nunez and Emilio Bonifacio.
If you have a hundred dollars in your wallet, I have a twenty, and everyone else has a dollar and change, that doesn’t mean that it’s you and me and then everyone else. It’s more like you and then me and everyone else.
I don’t expect Yankees fans to apologize for their team payroll, but that’s not the same thing as pretending the gross disparity doesn’t exist. In point of fact, I’d say the financial disparity is actually more of a sticking point for comparatively well-run and well-financed franchises than the poorly run and cheap ones. The Rays can complain about us complaining about your embarrassing payroll. You can’t. Your job is to just not comment, presumably while chuckling quietly.
(and to be clear, “you” means “you Yankees fans,” not you personally)
_________________________________________
* – Of course this amount should be included, but I’m pretty sure we wouldn’t have spent much more than our “live” salary on our team. It redounds to our benefit, but I think it can be reasonably understood to be an aberration.
Wait 'til next/this year?
"Laser show. So relax."
by nuthinboutnuthin on Jul 9, 2010 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybe make that slightly less accusatory sounding...
Wait 'til next/this year?
"Laser show. So relax."
by nuthinboutnuthin on Jul 9, 2010 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions
An interesting point. Obviously the Yankees have a financial advantage, and I’m not trying to lessen it or pretend it doesn’t exist, but here are some counter points:
The Yankees shrewd marketing has led to a huge amount of the cash that they have to spend. They don’t just have money fall from the sky that they spend, they earn every penny through free market economics.
The Yankees dwarf every other team in contributions to market sharing, luxury tax, etc. Essentially, the Yankees directly subsidize their competition, including teams like the Marlins, who make absolutely no attempt to be competitive, but simply bathe in pools of money. Last year, owning the Marlins was more profitable than owning the Yankees.
So while I acknowledge your points, I think that there’s certainly another side, and just find the whole “Yankee$ buyinz championships!!” argument to be tired and pointless.
And a salary cap does nothing to put more parity in the game, it just turns the contract process into a mockery. Look at the NBA.
Questions or thoughts? Email me at duggan2423(at)gmail(dot)com
Being the team with the best history of winning....
In the LARGEST market, doesn’t hurt.
"Man you are one pathetic loser. No offense." - Lloyd Christmas
by Lloyd Christmas on Jul 9, 2010 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Baseball is a business, but it’s a business based around a game. You subsidize your competition because otherwise your competition can’t exist so long as nobody wants to watch them get beat up by the $200 million giants. If there were a reasonable salary cap, you might see teams like the Athletics competing and drawing crowds. Obviously, there are certain places that just don’t support baseball (Tampa), but a big part of why you have to pay so much of the load is because of how unbalanced the game is.
To say nothing of the fact that if we’re trying to fool ourselves into thinking the MLB is about baseball, we should not be basing on-field team success on the best marketing.
USG
Good points...
…I think the discussion is more interesting when you throw out the “buying World Series” rhetoric (not that I’ve never said it), and the 23 remaining Pirates fans bemoaning a system that rewards poor management and financial commitment with irrelevance.
Honestly and seriously, though – I would never expect a Yanks fan to apologize for it. You’re talking to someone who was a Pats fan through Spygate with two middle fingers defiantly raised (and, of course, that involved an actual rule infraction)…
Wait 'til next/this year?
"Laser show. So relax."
by nuthinboutnuthin on Jul 9, 2010 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions
No, but....
It is a tough to take when the second highest payroll is still short of the Yankees by $80-100 mil. the difference equals most other teams’ entire payroll. I don’t want a cap, cuz it will affect the Sox also.
We're short by, like, 40 million.
But I’d love a cap. It’d hurt the Sox in some ways, but help them in others, and I think it’d just be good for the game in general. I don’t think it should be as hard a cap as the NBA has, but definitely put a big limiting factor on it.
USG
+1
Ultimately, a team can spend its way to a World Series, and several of them at that. I’m not talking about the Yankees, but imagine a team with, say, a half-billion annual payroll availability projected over 10-15 years of player acquisition, run by just you (not that you shouldn’t have a team, but I mean just you, with unlimited access to B-R, FanGraphs and BA’s site). Assuming even neutral-level managing and player development, that team would probably have more Series titles in that span than any team not named the Yankees, Marlins or Red Sox – perhaps even more than those teams too.
That decidedly extreme example illustrates the problems with/features of the uncapped system occurring on the current pay scale.
Wait 'til next/this year?
"Laser show. So relax."
by nuthinboutnuthin on Jul 9, 2010 10:45 PM EDT up reply actions
A bit surprising, but......
In the past the Yankees have preferred to wait and sign top players as free agents so they don’t have to give up prospects and money, just money. We all know that Lee was going to the Yankees in the winter, so this move must be to keep Lee away from the compettition now. The Rays and Rangers have been mentioned as interested in Lee. Lee does not have a huge contract ($9mil.), so he is attractive to all contenders.
Here is my take on this deal...
This is a great move for the Yankees. Montero, as great as he might be, doesn’t fit into this roster going into the future. He is not going to be a catcher, and 1st is locked up by Teixeira. Having an open/fluid dh spot allows them to find rest for their aging players. Even if they do decide to bring in another dh type player, they aren’t hard to acquire. Also, by trading for Lee now, they will not have to surrender draft picks when they re-sign him this off season. All of this doesn’t even begin to describe the value Lee bring to the Yanks for the remainder of this season. The Yanks now have arguably the best 1-2 punch in the game. Also, this gives the Yanks flexibility to trade Vazquez to a NL team (Phillies for Werth???) to get them help in the OF, or in the pen.
"Man you are one pathetic loser. No offense." - Lloyd Christmas
also....
Burnett has been highly inconsistent, Pettite cannot be counted on to perform at this level the rest of the way, and Hughes is going to be hit with an innings cap. Just a great, great move for the Yanks.
"Man you are one pathetic loser. No offense." - Lloyd Christmas
by Lloyd Christmas on Jul 9, 2010 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions
The Sox have to keep to the plan
The Sox don’t need Cliff Lee. Sure, it would be great to have him, but there are glaring holes in the bullpen, OF and IF that need to be addressed.
Has anybody looked at Farnsworth with the Royals? I just noticed him in the boxscore for the Royals over lunch. I find mself checking the pitcing lines for out of contention teams now for possible targets.
No No No....
No Farnsworthless. We already have enough overpaid garbage in the pen.
"Man you are one pathetic loser. No offense." - Lloyd Christmas
by Lloyd Christmas on Jul 9, 2010 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions
based on performance....
Ram Ram, Delcamen and Choke-Ojima
Approx 4.5 million for garbage
I understand they have performed in the past, and that bullpens are volatile. However, they have been terrible this year and adding someone as bad as Farnsworthless would be pouring gasoline on the fire.
"Man you are one pathetic loser. No offense." - Lloyd Christmas
by Lloyd Christmas on Jul 9, 2010 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions
All 3 of those guys are potentially useful,
and Oki in particular has logged tons of big innings for this team in 3 1/2 years. The guy you’re trashing today could be your hero tomorrow.
by SendEmHomeKim on Jul 9, 2010 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions
I hope he is....
But I believe the league has caught up to his deceptive delivery.
"Man you are one pathetic loser. No offense." - Lloyd Christmas
by Lloyd Christmas on Jul 9, 2010 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions
How do you figure they are?
Just because a guy was once successful doesn’t mean he still has the chance to be. Should we bring back Gagne?
USG
Oops, It's another matter of sample size I think.
Getting it done in this division is a thing unto itself. Pitchers who have actually done it get more of the benefit of the doubt from me.
by SendEmHomeKim on Jul 9, 2010 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, Oki has been very noticeably declining since his first year.
Manny Delcarmen was always remarkably inconsistent.
And RamRam really only did it for half a year himself.
The number of relievers who have gotten it done for half a season in the AL East is endless. That doesn’t make ’em capable.
USG
I still say Oki is a different situation.
He relies on deception more than stuff, but now that the AL has figured out his delivery and tendencies he’s getting shelled.
The NL doesn’t have that familiarity with his motion and delivery. I think he could still be successful there.
I think that's a lot of it
he also just hasn’t hit his spots this year as well as he was in 2007. He’s leaving balls up in the zone that are getting slammed.
Seattle is apparently backing off of the deal
"If you're a Yankee fan, or if you're not a Yankee fan - you have to admit, we're winners." -Paul O'Neill
Lee deal is off???
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2010/07/yankees-may-be-close-to-acquiring-cliff-lee.html
"Man you are one pathetic loser. No offense." - Lloyd Christmas
Overpaid?
Farnsworth is making $4.5 mil this year with a similar club option for 2011 and a $500K buyout; so the vig on him is about $2.5 mil. for the remainder of 2010 and the 2011 buyout. That seems to be in line with decent veteran relievers. I’m just throwing this out, I leave it to others here to run the stats.
Look, most of the avaialble bullpen help is going to come with flaws, so risk is involved.
I wouldn't trust him
He crumbles under pressure. Yanks fans, back me up on this.
"Man you are one pathetic loser. No offense." - Lloyd Christmas
by Lloyd Christmas on Jul 9, 2010 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh, I can back you up on that just fine.
He’s one of the few players you don’t even rely on to throw at the opponent. He’ll throw hard, and somehow hit the catcher.
USG
Consider yourself backed. Having Farnsworth on the mound is kind of like driving in a Papier-mâché car. It’s colorful, lightweight, and fast – but you know it’s going to fall apart sooner rather than later.
All avaialble middle relivers suck
…to some degree. That’s why they in the bullpen, cuz their not good enough to start anyway. I’m not saying Farnsworth is the man, but there is always some risk in a trade, especially for a reliever.
That is true....
So if you can’t get a top tier reliever (which would cost the farm), go with youth. Bowden is going to get a chance. No point in adding retreads this time of year, when they cost too much.
"Man you are one pathetic loser. No offense." - Lloyd Christmas
by Lloyd Christmas on Jul 9, 2010 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, some reliever's sucking is a matter of not being able to hold up more than a couple innings.
Which doesn’t translate at all to sucking as a reliever.
USG
You really, REALLY, do not want Kyle Farnsworth.
"If you're a Yankee fan, or if you're not a Yankee fan - you have to admit, we're winners." -Paul O'Neill
by Chris McKeown on Jul 9, 2010 8:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Ugh
I really thought I was seeing the end of Montero in New York, and was looking forward to it.
Well, if he’s not in New York (or, God forbid, Tampa) then we’ve got a better shot this year. But I still think it was a bad deal for the Yankees. Really wish they’d gone through with it.
Maybe the Rays will send out Hellickson and Jennings? No? Shit.
USG
Who knows, maybe you guys are the ones getting him – I’m sure you could probably make room for him in the rotation. Would you drop Dice?
In a heartbeat
But it would be way overpaying for the actual utility we get. I think either Beckett will return to ‘07-’09 form, or Lackey will keep up his recent numbers enough that Lester-Buchholz-Lackey/Beckett will be a strong 1-3 for the playoffs. Lee would be an improvement, but if the Yanks were willing to give up Romero, any deal would have to include both Kelly and Lars or Kalish at the least.
USG
I have been doing that ALL DAY.
I don’t now what it is, but I keep typing Romero, and then having to delete it to put in Montero. It’s bizarre.
This one slipped through.
USG
I myself am no stranger to the brain malfunction. My personal bane is reply failure.
Not being very familiar with your farm prospects, I can guarantee that any trade the Mariners would accept would likely string.
I guess it's because we're facing Ricky Romero tonight, but who knows?
Yeah, we’d be taking a big hit, definitely.
USG
That would be funny
Seeing Dice-K in the pen. As if the current pen doesn’t give Sox fans enough to worry about. That being said, Lee would be an awesome addition to the Sox, depending on what they had to give up to get him.
"Man you are one pathetic loser. No offense." - Lloyd Christmas
by Lloyd Christmas on Jul 9, 2010 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Drop Dice?
I’d keep Dice tied up in my basement if we were making room for Cliff Lee! Actually, I’d like to keep him tied up in my basement period. It’s tough to walk the bases loaded from down there…
Wait 'til next/this year?
"Laser show. So relax."
by nuthinboutnuthin on Jul 9, 2010 10:48 PM EDT up reply actions
just curious
where do you see montero playing for the yanks in the future?
"Man you are one pathetic loser. No offense." - Lloyd Christmas
by Lloyd Christmas on Jul 9, 2010 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions
I do see them stashing him behind the plate
Because A) there have been many no-glove, big bat catching prospects who have matured to the point where their defense isn’t prohibitively bad (Martinez was basically guaranteed to play anywhere but coming up through the minors), and B) the Yankees don’t seem to care all that much about defense when it comes to an impact bat. Hell, they left Jeter at short and moved A-Rod to 3rd when he first came over. Giambi at first. Damon in the outfield. Etc. etc. etc.
USG
Lately though, the Yanks been much more focused on defense (just like the Sox).
- Jeter worked on his defense and improved significantly last year
- Yanks acquired Tex and his gold glove
- Yanks acquired Granderson, a very capable centerfielder
- Damon (and his arm) gets dumped and is replaced by Gardner, who for all his offense this year, is primarily just an amazing outfielders with speed on the basepath
- Cervelli gets tons of time behind the dish now. In part because the Yankees want to preserve Posada (at least through his contract), but also because he’s a really great defensive catcher.
I don’t think that’s a paradigm shift in the organization as much as those were the guys that were available and cheap and there were no better alternatives.
If Montero comes up and starts raking, they’ll have no problems with the occasional passed ball or error.
Questions or thoughts? Email me at duggan2423(at)gmail(dot)com
You may certainly be right. Just a few things (if I may defend my position here)
- Tex wasn’t cheap (though he most certainly was available).
- These things all did come to pass within 2 years after Girardi taking the helm (circumstantial, I know).
- Girardi is a former catcher himself, and based on his choices for catchers, it seems to me that he is a big believer in good defensive catchers. Molina, Pudge, and Cervelli are all defensive catchers (though Pudge did wield a good stick for a while there).
- When fielding a bad defensive catcher, there is more to worry about than just errors and passed-balls. There is the caught-stealing ratio, and the catcher’s ability to call the game and inspire confidence in his pitcher.
In the end, I do think that both of you are right – they will play him behind the dish, at least for a while. But, I don’t think they will have a great deal of patience if he does poorly defensively, especially if it takes him a while to warm up to MLB pitching.
Wasn't Girardi A-OK with playing Posada behind the plate until his arm basically died on him in 2008?
Or am I mixing up my years/events?
USG
Posada has been pretty awful behind the plate for quite some time. He is the worst receiver that I’ve ever seen, and seems to flub a lot of easy blocks.
Watching him and Cervelli catch is like night and day. However, Jorge can still hit, so he keeps getting in the lineup. This year, he’s more of a C/DH, but in years past, we just bit the bullet with his defensive ineptitude.
Questions or thoughts? Email me at duggan2423(at)gmail(dot)com
No doubt, but I'm just saying wasn't the deciding factor that got him out from behind the plate consistently
The 2008 dead arm?
USG
Maybe, but Posada is really not a fair example. He is a franchise player who brings intangibles to the team. People come out to the games to see him, and he is great both in the clubhouse and in the press-box. The Yankees will do their best to play him and keep him happy as long as he’s there, regardless of his defensive ability.
Teix is also a top offensive player
Granderson had a reputation for being a pretty good bat for a centerfielder. Damon was a weird issue but also a matter of just being old and not wanting to buy a guy off a big year relative to his age. Sure, Jeter improved his defense, but that’s not really a strategic move by the Yankees either.
USG
Tex is a top offensive player when it isn’t April, and when it isn’t 2010, and … but yeah, point taken. He is usually a great bat.
You’re right, it’s definitely hard to tell with Damon. But I insist that his defense was a factor. The Yankees, when they made their offer, were mostly counting on him as a DH (to replace Matsui, who was definitely gone by then) and adjusted their offer accordingly. I don’t think that Granderson was a response to Damon rejecting their offer – I think NJ was. Which means that the Yankees were unwilling to put up with his little-league arm anymore.
It is possible that they specifically asked Jeter to work on it. After all, he had 10 years to work on it and he didn’t until then.
Many scouts disagree..
But I guess we’ll see.
"Man you are one pathetic loser. No offense." - Lloyd Christmas
It depends.....
If Tampa bay ends up getting Lee instead, no not a sigh of relief at all.
"Man you are one pathetic loser. No offense." - Lloyd Christmas
by Lloyd Christmas on Jul 9, 2010 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions
If we go in as the WC we end up facing Lee in the ALDS as well.
Texas is playing way better than Minnesota and Detroit.
If I was your math homework I'd be really hard and you'd be doing me on your desk.
I'm a 7 WAR player in bed.
I'll take my chances....
facing Lee in the playoffs. If Tampa gets him, there is a good chance we don’t make the playoffs.
"Man you are one pathetic loser. No offense." - Lloyd Christmas
by Lloyd Christmas on Jul 9, 2010 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions
+1
Wait 'til next/this year?
"Laser show. So relax."
by nuthinboutnuthin on Jul 9, 2010 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Makes sense for Tampa
Their window could close fast, especially in a tough division, so they should go for it now. They figure to lose Crawford, for sure, and probobly Pena also next season, so they may be taking a step back.
Their window shouldn't really close so long as their farm system keeps producing--which it will if they don't shell out for a guy like Lee.
Longoria is locked up. Crawford leaving will be a hit, but Desmond Jennings should be ready to give it a go next year anyways. They’ve got a window so long as Longoria is on the team with guys like Price, Davis, and Hellickson coming up.
USG
The only problem with that theory....
Is that if they were to trade for Lee, they would probably have to start by offering Hellickson, Jennings or both. This would set the franchise back, since they don’t really have the cash to replenish via FA. Crawford will be replaced by Jennings, and Pena has been so bad this year, they might re-sign him. If they don’t, Zobrist moves to 1st, and Rodriguez or Brignac takes over at 2nd.
Lee to the Rays would hurt the Sox this year, but might actually be beneficial to the Sox in the Future.
"Man you are one pathetic loser. No offense." - Lloyd Christmas
by Lloyd Christmas on Jul 9, 2010 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Sure, but now is now
Nobody can predict what these Jennings, Hellickson or other guys will do in the future. If you have a chance to win now, you take it.
If you have a 100% chance to win now, you take it.
But the Rays getting Lee gives them no such guarantee. Not even close. They still have a weakish lineup without Pena performing.
USG
So you're saying they can't win as currently constructed?
"Man you are one pathetic loser. No offense." - Lloyd Christmas
by Lloyd Christmas on Jul 9, 2010 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd say they can't win the WS as they are right now.
That’s just me, though
"If I was being paid $30,000 dollars a year, the very least I could do was hit .400."- Ted Williams
"man, this team they just suck so bad"- gizmosandy
Twitter: @BoldandBrash
to a certain extent
It’s now guarantee that these guys will ever reach or prosper in the majors, but you can’t just throw away the future (especially the Rays). Lester, Buch, and Youk had a chance to be traded earlier in their careers, and look how they turned out. The Rays need to have guys continuously coming up for them to be successful.
"If I was being paid $30,000 dollars a year, the very least I could do was hit .400."- Ted Williams
"man, this team they just suck so bad"- gizmosandy
Twitter: @BoldandBrash
Indeed
We could have lost Youk in a nothing trade back in 2002, and either Lester or Buch for Santana.
Now they’re a Cy Young contender, an MVP contender, and a strong #2
USG
no not now
"If I was being paid $30,000 dollars a year, the very least I could do was hit .400."- Ted Williams
"man, this team they just suck so bad"- gizmosandy
Twitter: @BoldandBrash
The Rangers are apparently willing to trade Smoak.
"If I was being paid $30,000 dollars a year, the very least I could do was hit .400."- Ted Williams
"man, this team they just suck so bad"- gizmosandy
Twitter: @BoldandBrash
Reds are in the mix...
Smoak or Alonso? OTM, whom do you prefer?
"Man you are one pathetic loser. No offense." - Lloyd Christmas
Smoak
"If I was being paid $30,000 dollars a year, the very least I could do was hit .400."- Ted Williams
"man, this team they just suck so bad"- gizmosandy
Twitter: @BoldandBrash
I would take Smoak as well
But not in a landslide.
"Man you are one pathetic loser. No offense." - Lloyd Christmas
The M's had concerns about Adams' health.
"If I was being paid $30,000 dollars a year, the very least I could do was hit .400."- Ted Williams
"man, this team they just suck so bad"- gizmosandy
Twitter: @BoldandBrash
Smoak not in Rangers lineup tonight
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2010/07/yankees-may-be-close-to-acquiring-cliff-lee.html
"Man you are one pathetic loser. No offense." - Lloyd Christmas
The Rangers are "supposed" to get Lee. Like I haven't heard it before.
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2010/07/yankees-may-be-close-to-acquiring-cliff-lee.html
"If I was being paid $30,000 dollars a year, the very least I could do was hit .400."- Ted Williams
"man, this team they just suck so bad"- gizmosandy
Twitter: @BoldandBrash
For Smoak?
Good deal for Mariners. They’re really going to clean up on this trade. Sucks to be the Phillies!
DFA Beckett
by South Coast Ghost on Jul 9, 2010 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions
for Smoak and 3 others
So
"If I was being paid $30,000 dollars a year, the very least I could do was hit .400."- Ted Williams
"man, this team they just suck so bad"- gizmosandy
Twitter: @BoldandBrash
And the Phillies got WHO for Lee in the offseason?
DFA Beckett
by South Coast Ghost on Jul 9, 2010 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Ummm
Some no name…I think Halladay is his name.
"Man you are one pathetic loser. No offense." - Lloyd Christmas
by Lloyd Christmas on Jul 9, 2010 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions
It wasn't a 3-way deal though
Phillies sent their own prospects to Toronto then sent out Lee to the Mariners.
DFA Beckett
by South Coast Ghost on Jul 9, 2010 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Not really.
The Lee Deal was basically separate. Philly could’ve kept both, and only lost out on the sort of disappointing package they got for Lee.
USG
really??
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/12/roy-halladay-rumors-monday-1.html
"Man you are one pathetic loser. No offense." - Lloyd Christmas
by Lloyd Christmas on Jul 9, 2010 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions
also
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/12/latest-on-roy-halladaycliff-lee-trade.html
"Man you are one pathetic loser. No offense." - Lloyd Christmas
by Lloyd Christmas on Jul 9, 2010 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Rangers get M. Lowe as well
"Man you are one pathetic loser. No offense." - Lloyd Christmas
by Lloyd Christmas on Jul 9, 2010 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Joel Sherman
Is actually a decent baseball guy, considering he works for the NYPOST.
"Man you are one pathetic loser. No offense." - Lloyd Christmas
I'm glad he isn't going to NYY, NYM or TB
"Man you are one pathetic loser. No offense." - Lloyd Christmas
So pretty much the Rangers are selling out and are gonna try to win this year.
"If I was being paid $30,000 dollars a year, the very least I could do was hit .400."- Ted Williams
"man, this team they just suck so bad"- gizmosandy
Twitter: @BoldandBrash
Smoak's a big piece to give up
But they still have a good farm system, sadly. Scheppers, Perez, others. Just be glad they don’t have Purke in there.
DFA Beckett
by South Coast Ghost on Jul 9, 2010 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions
The only thing that sucks about this....
Is I’m sure Lee won’t pitch against the Yanks tonight, and we face the Rangers right after the break.
"Man you are one pathetic loser. No offense." - Lloyd Christmas
good point
"If I was being paid $30,000 dollars a year, the very least I could do was hit .400."- Ted Williams
"man, this team they just suck so bad"- gizmosandy
Twitter: @BoldandBrash
Lee will pitch the ASG, right?
So he won’t pitch until a few days after the break. Might miss the series we hope?
USG
Chris Davis didn't have a good year in Texas in 09,
but has been raking in the minors.
"If I was being paid $30,000 dollars a year, the very least I could do was hit .400."- Ted Williams
"man, this team they just suck so bad"- gizmosandy
Twitter: @BoldandBrash
Decent 1b are not hard to find.....
Smoak has a ton of talent, but isn’t putting up great #‘s this year. I’m sure the Rangers can find a suitable replacement for him. Maybe A. LaRoche?? I’m sure they wouldn’t have to give up much to get him.
"Man you are one pathetic loser. No offense." - Lloyd Christmas
by Lloyd Christmas on Jul 9, 2010 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions
I think they just bring Davis up.
"If I was being paid $30,000 dollars a year, the very least I could do was hit .400."- Ted Williams
"man, this team they just suck so bad"- gizmosandy
Twitter: @BoldandBrash
They probably will....
But there are other options out there they could pursue.
"Man you are one pathetic loser. No offense." - Lloyd Christmas
by Lloyd Christmas on Jul 9, 2010 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions
New story for Lee to Rangers
Is here:
http://www.overthemonster.com/2010/7/9/1561805/trade-remix-cliff-lee-heading-to
SB Nation's Boston Red Sox community:
OverTheMonster.com
Follow this guy on Twitter: @RCBooth
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