The Red Sox are Buyers, and Pitching is the Currency
Felix Doubront, Michael Bowden, Junichi Tazawa, Casey Kelly, Alex Wilson, Stolmy Pimentel, Manny Rivera, Kendal Volz, Madison Younginer, Stephen Fife, Kyle Weiland, Caleb Clay. The Red Sox have a lot of legitimate pitching prospects throughout their system. The one thing they all have in common? There's not a ton of room for them with the big league team in the next few years.
Other than Daisuke leaving after 2012, the Red Sox (barring major injury) have their rotation entirely locked up through 2014, when all four of John Lackey, Josh Beckett, Jon Lester, and Clay Buchholz will be eligible for free agency. If Casey Kelly eventually fills the fifth spot, as he is expected to, then where does that leave everyone else?
Obviously stuff happens. There's a reason why they say "you can never have enough pitching." Certainly, we've seen that a few years running, where six or seven man rotations have lead to spot starts and mid-season free agent acquisitions to fill in holes left by guys like Curt Schilling, Bartolo Colon, John Smoltz, and Brad Penny. And certainly some of these guys will find a way onto the team via the bullpen-Michael Bowden is already headed in that direction, and guys like Alex Wilson and Kendal Volz could well head in that direction based on their past. But eventually, you've got to think about moving some of that talent, especially with some of the holes this Red Sox team has.
There are only a few names there that deals could really be build around. Casey Kelly is the obvious one, with Felix Doubront coming in second thanks to his recent strong performances. But everyone on that list has some good value, and could certainly add up to enough in a package to sway another team into sending a reliever our way, or maybe a legitimate outfielder given the injury to Jacoby Ellsbury and struggles of Mike Cameron.
Theo has never been willing to trade away the future for present help if he doesn't think the deal is fair, and that's not a principle he should abandon. We shouldn't be trading Ryan Kalish or probably Casey Kelly for mid-season bullpen help. But what about the guys who probably aren't the future? Felix Doubront has been solid in his starts, but is he really going to crack this rotation in the near future? If a guy who is likely to be a future reliever such as Alex Wilson can get you more of a sure thing in the seventh inning, do you really hold on? Last year, the Red Sox dealt Justin Masterson, Nick Hagadone, and Bryan Price for Victor Martinez. Now, that's not to say a pen arm would cost that much, but the equivalents are there. What about Doubront, Pimentel, and Fife? Not that far off, really.
When healthy, this Red Sox team has a dream offense, a top-five rotation, and one of the best defenses in the business. But there are holes. Despite their remarkably poor start to the season, the Red Sox have set themselves up to be buyers at the deadline. Prospects can act as currency in this business in two ways: they can keep the payroll down, or they can be traded. Without many spots for them to do the former, it's time for the Red Sox to use some of their organizational depth on the latter. After all, with guys like Ranaudo and Workman a signing bonus away, it's not likely we're going to be running out anytime soon.
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One or two more serious injuries
and we become sellers. If not for our pitching depth and surprisingly productive offense, we’d be out of the race already.
Adrian Beltre is why we can't have healthy outfielders.
I'm not sure if the Yanks are getting him or not
They might be just driving up the price for the rest of the league. They really don’t need him. The Yankee starting 5 is arguably the best in baseball right now… they need bullpen help and a bat off the bench. PSA isn’t exactly thrilled for this deal.
"If you're a Yankee fan, or if you're not a Yankee fan - you have to admit, we're winners." -Paul O'Neill
by Chris McKeown on Jul 9, 2010 9:17 AM EDT up reply actions
yeah that's kinda what I thought
I mean, they’d be ridiculous if they did add Lee, but really, what a waste of prospects. Still, I might cry if the Yankees do get him.
I don't even blame you
It’s becoming ridiculous. And then I heard a rumor on WFAN radio of Javier Vazquez for Jayson Werth.. really?!? Gardner has been a hero in LF this year… Nick Swisher has been awesome (although probably should have missed the ASG) and Granderson is way to early to give up on. The Yankees gave up Austin Jackson for him and it’d be a shame to go to Werth already. There simply isn’t room… I thought having the best record in baseball was supposed to be a good thing?? It’s unreal.
"If you're a Yankee fan, or if you're not a Yankee fan - you have to admit, we're winners." -Paul O'Neill
by Chris McKeown on Jul 9, 2010 9:28 AM EDT up reply actions
This is as dumb as it could get
Why would they trade for Lee? They have 54 wins in the bank and are a 95-98 wins in terms of true talent: This means that they are on in a position on the win curve where they don’t need to overpay (either in terms of prospects or money) for an additional 2-3 wins that Lee brings!
They are giving one of the finest prospects in baseball (He’s the 2nd most advanced prospect in MiLB age advancement wise plus OTHER PROSPECTS) for 3 months of a guy that they can get in FA easily!
I thought Cashman was a decent GM: He’s now in the Amaro territory.
There is no agreement in place, says Buster Olney
Time will tell.. until then.. Yankees get to face him tonight. Oh joy
"If you're a Yankee fan, or if you're not a Yankee fan - you have to admit, we're winners." -Paul O'Neill
by Chris McKeown on Jul 9, 2010 9:46 AM EDT up reply actions
Although it's the NY Post reporting it
And they’re not exactly “credible”
"If you're a Yankee fan, or if you're not a Yankee fan - you have to admit, we're winners." -Paul O'Neill
by Chris McKeown on Jul 9, 2010 9:58 AM EDT up reply actions
The ‘fire’ could be the Yankees trying to jack up the price. Certainly, Cashman wouldn’t be unhappy if the Twins or Rangers had to deplete their farm in trade.
Javier is on the block
They are prepping to pick up Lee. Why wouldn’t you? we all know you can’t guarantee none of them will get hurt. This gives them a killer rotation going into the playoffs if they are healthy. You know they aren’t too concerned about the future, but the present. a prospect is still just that, a prospect. Lee is a proven guy entering his prime. If he leaves, they get 2 draft picks. Why wouldn’t they do this????
"simul justus et peccator"
The MFY
are going to get Cliff Lee and Werth this week.
We need to become sellers, that mountain is far too high to climb once all this happens.
The certified ambassador of all things good and great, here at OTM.
Werth will not be a Yankee
I think Lee is still going to Minnesota
"If you're a Yankee fan, or if you're not a Yankee fan - you have to admit, we're winners." -Paul O'Neill
by Chris McKeown on Jul 9, 2010 9:57 AM EDT up reply actions
Vasquez will get sent to Philly for Werth-care to bet?
after Lee gets sent to NY
The certified ambassador of all things good and great, here at OTM.
I would certainly bet on that
Where do you see Werth fitting into the Yankee lineup?
"If you're a Yankee fan, or if you're not a Yankee fan - you have to admit, we're winners." -Paul O'Neill
by Chris McKeown on Jul 9, 2010 10:00 AM EDT up reply actions
I think they will flip an OF somewhere before or shortly after they get him
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Who?
Gardner has been spectacular for the Yanks this year.. overall much better numbers than Damon has put up. Swisher is a rock in RF and they won’t give in on Granderson already.. he’s a proven All Star and the Yanks traded away Jackson for him. They want to keep the DH spot open so they can rotate players like A-Rod and Posada so they get half-days every once in a while. Werth doesn’t make much sense… trading away proven starting pitchers is never a wise thing to do, either.
"If you're a Yankee fan, or if you're not a Yankee fan - you have to admit, we're winners." -Paul O'Neill
by Chris McKeown on Jul 9, 2010 10:04 AM EDT up reply actions
Time will tell
It was a risky move to make.. but Granderson looked too good to pass on to Cashman I believe. Jackson has cooled off tremendously since the beginning of the season, though.
"If you're a Yankee fan, or if you're not a Yankee fan - you have to admit, we're winners." -Paul O'Neill
by Chris McKeown on Jul 9, 2010 10:08 AM EDT up reply actions
Honestly, the worst part of that trade so far was losing Phil Coke. He’s been pretty reliable for the Tigers, and the Yankee bullpen has been terrible (except Rivera).
Well, it hasn’t been good (even if the Sox are struggling more). The fact is, you guys have both Bard and Papelbon. Bard has been absolutely dominant, and Papelbon only had 4 bad outings out of 34 (though, they were really bad). He’s probably only an adjustment away from being reliable again.
Would you?
I wouldn’t take Vasquez for Werth. Granted he’s better in the NL than the AL, but really…. the Phillies would have to be crazy. They’d get 2 picks for Werth if he’s a FA who leaves. What, 1 for Javier? The Phillies aren’t stupid. Okay, aside from trading away Cliff Lee.
"simul justus et peccator"
no, Vasquez is also a type A
it would be even. They do want players under control after this year. Which makes sense, you don’t trade one of your best bats for a pitcher that you lose after this year.
bandwagon? I'm here every game
been a Sox fan longer than anyone here probably due to age,
But at some point we have to accept the injuries are too much to overcome.
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Am just teasing you :D
But the WC isn’t out of reach, plus a lot of crazy stuff could happen in half a season!
I still feel like TB is going to choke.
I’m not trying to compliment the BoSox.. but I just don’t see the Rays having enough firepower to make the postseason.. when Boston gets healthy they’ve got a great shot at the WC. Division is still up for grabs (even though the Yankees are HOT right now)
"If you're a Yankee fan, or if you're not a Yankee fan - you have to admit, we're winners." -Paul O'Neill
by Chris McKeown on Jul 9, 2010 10:06 AM EDT up reply actions
So...say we get swept by TO, and are 8 games back at the ASB
…you legitimately think we can crawl back out of that?
Coughmrnegitivecough
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by bestbostonsports on Jul 9, 2010 10:08 AM EDT up reply actions
what about it
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by bestbostonsports on Jul 9, 2010 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions
TO?
"If you're a Yankee fan, or if you're not a Yankee fan - you have to admit, we're winners." -Paul O'Neill
by Chris McKeown on Jul 9, 2010 10:08 AM EDT up reply actions
ah I'm sorry I didn't look up who they're playing
They won’t get swept by Toronto… you really lost all faith in your team already? Even I believe they won’t get swept by Toronto and I live and breath Yankee baseball
"If you're a Yankee fan, or if you're not a Yankee fan - you have to admit, we're winners." -Paul O'Neill
by Chris McKeown on Jul 9, 2010 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions
No i havent lost faith in my squad...
we’ve been decimated with injuries. Ive seen what we can do healthy. I’m saying these injuries have potential to dig us a pretty big hole here…and I just hope we can crawl back out of it.
I see
Yankees had a somewhat similar problem back in 2006 with a load of injuries and still, somehow, made the playoffs
"If you're a Yankee fan, or if you're not a Yankee fan - you have to admit, we're winners." -Paul O'Neill
by Chris McKeown on Jul 9, 2010 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions
the red sox had the worst of it in 2006…
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by bestbostonsports on Jul 9, 2010 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions
Debateable
"If you're a Yankee fan, or if you're not a Yankee fan - you have to admit, we're winners." -Paul O'Neill
by Chris McKeown on Jul 9, 2010 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions
and still the third best record in baseball.
Im not worried. So long as we dont fall back too far, we are getting our players back
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by bestbostonsports on Jul 9, 2010 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions
We're 5 back right now.
I just dont wanna free fall into the ASB. Its gonna be a while before we get Beckett and Pedey and Ells back.
4.5
We get Beckket back in two weeks, and VMart after the break
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by bestbostonsports on Jul 9, 2010 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions
I must say
I was relatively surprised that he actually hurt himself at Yankee Stadium back in mid-May
"If you're a Yankee fan, or if you're not a Yankee fan - you have to admit, we're winners." -Paul O'Neill
by Chris McKeown on Jul 9, 2010 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions
He was pitching through the problem
then and severely injured it.
"If I was being paid $30,000 dollars a year, the very least I could do was hit .400."- Ted Williams
"man, this team they just suck so bad"- gizmosandy
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by BoldandBrash on Jul 9, 2010 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions
I will agree with that
"If you're a Yankee fan, or if you're not a Yankee fan - you have to admit, we're winners." -Paul O'Neill
by Chris McKeown on Jul 9, 2010 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions
The Orioles have it the worst
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by bestbostonsports on Jul 9, 2010 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions
there was no problem with the question
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by bestbostonsports on Jul 9, 2010 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions
look at the pitching matchups for this series.
If we get swept in TO, then we might as well give up, because we should win alll of these games.
Except the DiceK game
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by bestbostonsports on Jul 9, 2010 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions
Jesses Litsch
Has a 7.30 ERA, is 0-3, and has more walks than strikeouts per nine innings. We could throw Bill Hall out there as the starter and we still should win that game.
DiceK
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by bestbostonsports on Jul 9, 2010 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions
I hate watching DiceK. I do not look foward to it.
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by bestbostonsports on Jul 9, 2010 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions
haha I'm probably the only one
but I really like watching him pitch. The turmoil! The suspense! It’s like the baseball equivalent of watching a horror movie. Only in Red Sox games more people get hurt than in horror movies…
by wolf9309 on Jul 9, 2010 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I took a friend to an O's game in 07
He’s from India and it was his first time at a baseball game. Papi had already hit a two run home run and the Sox were up 4-1 or something in the 3rd. A this point I said Daisuke tends to melt down and starting giving up walks, but for the most part can come out unscathed. Daisuke then (order might be off) walked three, allowed a single, walked another, grand slam, seven runs in an inning. Sox ended up losing 11-d on the night.
Litsch would be a guaranteed W....
except Dice K is pitching.
Obviously Lester is ridiculous…but Ricky Romero has been great at times this year….and can defintiely shut us down.
I think every game is questionable…especially Lackey and Dice
although the numbers against Romero for our lineup look pretty favorable
Hall, Youk, Beltre, JD, and Ortiz all hit over .400 against him
Romero is beatable.
We need Lester to be the stopper.
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by bestbostonsports on Jul 9, 2010 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions
I said TB wouldnt make the playoffs beginning of the year.
I dont believe in them, and still think we would have won the WS in 2008 if we put up some damn runs in game 7…KOTSAY IM LOOKING AT YOU.
But these injuries are real rough
We could use Mark Kotsay right now..
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by bestbostonsports on Jul 9, 2010 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions
why not?
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by bestbostonsports on Jul 9, 2010 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions
He doesnt suck
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by bestbostonsports on Jul 9, 2010 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions
The guy is worth negative money.
He should be paying his team to let him play, he’s so bad.
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Jul 9, 2010 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
rec'd
"If I was being paid $30,000 dollars a year, the very least I could do was hit .400."- Ted Williams
"man, this team they just suck so bad"- gizmosandy
Twitter: @BoldandBrash
by BoldandBrash on Jul 9, 2010 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions
On Doubront
He’s the most likely pitcher to be moved because next year will be his last option year (the FO has put him on the 40 man roster last year to protect him from getting picked by another team in the Rule 5 draft) and as you noted, there’s no roster spot in the rotation for him next year: He’ll be either a long man reliever-spot starter out of the pen or stashed in AAA without the possibility of sending him down in 2012 as he’ll become out of options!
forgot last year was an option year for him
makes a lot of sense. Obviously Tazawa isn’t getting traded this year. I think the pen needs and effective Bowden too much for him to be traded. And those are really the close-to-majors pitchers, so yeah Doubront makes the most sense.
well we'll see
He’s changed his mechanics and been dominating the minors since then. If he can’t be effective then my statement remains, just the reason he won’t get traded is because he can’t get major league outs so nobody will want him.
I'm sick and tired of seeing the Yanks pick up big FA's and trade for guys while we sit and watch.
Arod, Tex, CC, etc.etc.etc…..
If they grab Cliff Lee and Werth, we’re in trouble…not for just this year (which looks unlikely anyway due to injuries) but for much of the future.
Still dont get why they would pick up either of them…but theyre the yankees, and while other people doubt them, and criticize their moves… they win championships.
You ignore how often it comes back to bite them in the ass.
If they do get Lee, they will have traded all three of their legitimate prospects, making them non-issues in the future trade market.
They sign guys to longer than they should, and end up paying tons for guys like Giambi. Watch them give Lee 5 years or something, and have him melt down for the last two.
You can’t stop a team with a budget 20% larger than the next highest from winning championships. But you can certainly take advantage of the flaws in the way they go about it.
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Jul 9, 2010 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions
So they just sign more guys to replace them. It's only money, which means almost nothing to them.
Over the previous two seasons they signed 5 contracts worth three-quarters of a BILLION dollars. That’s what they do. They find the best players available, and buy them so no one else can have them, like CC or Tex or whoever.
We do our best. We paid/are paying top dollar for Dice-K, Beckett, and Lackey. Smart? Not this year necessarily, but it could turn around later and in the coming years.
Their team payroll is virtually unchanged from 2005.
They have a budget. It catches up to them occasionally.
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Jul 9, 2010 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions
How about a guy like Brad Ziegler? Would he be available?
Or Aardsma?
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by bestbostonsports on Jul 9, 2010 10:06 AM EDT reply actions
He’s had a good last few years. That’s a pickup I would not mind. Has to be better that RamRam
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by bestbostonsports on Jul 9, 2010 10:08 AM EDT up reply actions
He had a fluke 2009.
Kinda like, y’know, RamRam.
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Jul 9, 2010 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions
Ziegler I don't like
He hasn’t been doing that well, and is still outperforming his peripherals. Plus that would involve dealing with Beane, and he’d probably find a way to make us trade Pedroia for him.
Aardsma was really good last year, but that’s the one blip on his career. Not doing well this year. Plus as he’s closing they’d want too much for him. I really wish the White Sox were still out of it… they had some promising guys.
Leo Nunez has been crazy good this year and might be available. Still, might cost more than I personally would be comfortable with. I guess at some point, a reliever that’s doing well will just be expensive and we may have to bite the bullet.
Evan Meek?
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by bestbostonsports on Jul 9, 2010 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions
The Pirates would look for some good prospects though. and the White Sox are in it so no Matt Thornton…
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by bestbostonsports on Jul 9, 2010 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions
At a glance, Meek looks worth something decent
especially since he’s under team control another 3 years after this one.
Yep
now the season is over
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by bestbostonsports on Jul 9, 2010 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions
no Im not being sarcastic at all.
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by bestbostonsports on Jul 9, 2010 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions
sigh… at least I get to watch Lester tonight, thats all we have now.
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by bestbostonsports on Jul 9, 2010 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions
Oh wow
I really didn’t think this would happen
"If you're a Yankee fan, or if you're not a Yankee fan - you have to admit, we're winners." -Paul O'Neill
by Chris McKeown on Jul 9, 2010 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions
for me to be negitive….
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by bestbostonsports on Jul 9, 2010 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions
The Wild Card is still achievable.
Yeesh.
DFA Beckett
by South Coast Ghost on Jul 9, 2010 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions
maybe
Rays might get it
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by bestbostonsports on Jul 9, 2010 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions
In late July, when the majority of the Sox come back from the DL, TB is going to get a run for their money. My money is on Yanks and Sox in 1st and 2nd.
I hope
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by bestbostonsports on Jul 9, 2010 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions
Maybe
The Sox might get it also
DFA Beckett
by South Coast Ghost on Jul 9, 2010 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions
Meh, I dont like the way theyve looked
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by bestbostonsports on Jul 9, 2010 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions
great how can we compete with a team
that will trade for an ace pitcher just so they don’t have to face him that night.
for me to be negitive, this is a bad sign. i never give up if we are down 9-1 in the 8th. But its done.
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by bestbostonsports on Jul 9, 2010 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions
there is no such thing as competing with
CC, Burnett, Hughes, Lee, Vasquez, Pettite……Mariano
There just isnt. It’s called losing. Not competing.
Except that it's not much of a difference.
Did we think we could compete against a starting three of CC, Hughes, and Pettitte in the playoffs? Than we can face Lee, CC, and Pettitte. So what if they win the division? There’s other ways of getting to the playoffs, and then it’s just winning four games.
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Jul 9, 2010 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions
If the Yanks do get Lee..
Well, we were all kinda assuming they’d pick him up in the Offseason anyway, right? So they get him for an extra half season and instead of it being a 3-team race for both the division and the WC it’s just a two-team race for the WC. Plus they gave up possibly one of the best young players in the minors in Montero, and they won’t have him going forward into the future when Teix, A-Rod and Jeter are all old and flailing.
DFA Beckett
by South Coast Ghost on Jul 9, 2010 11:01 AM EDT reply actions
Don't forget Posada.
The one guy they’d really need to replace.
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Jul 9, 2010 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions
How long does he have left on his contract anyway?
I know they have Romine in their system, but he’s no Posada.
I really think this will eventually end badly for the Yanks. Not now of course, but in a few years down the road.
DFA Beckett
by South Coast Ghost on Jul 9, 2010 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions
its awful for us
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by bestbostonsports on Jul 9, 2010 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions
You are both overreacting.
They’re giving up Jesus Montero for half a season of a guy who they were going to sign anyways. The only difference is that we have to face Lee instead of Hughes in the postseason—it’s not a huge difference.
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Jul 9, 2010 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't get why they'd give up Montero for half a year of Lee anyway
CC, Burnett, Hughes, Pettite and Vazquez is a very good rotation. I’d be willing to put money on the fact that the upgrade from the worst of that rotation to Lee is less than the number of wins Montero will be worth in his first 6 years of control.
DFA Beckett
by South Coast Ghost on Jul 9, 2010 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions
No, I don't.
The Yankees aren’t our biggest competition for the postseason right now, the Rays are. And once we get there, it’s just a matter of winning four out of seven games. We have a legitimate rotation, and when healthy, probably a better offense. We just need to shore up the bullpen. Same story as always.
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Jul 9, 2010 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Not a huge difference? Ha.
I dont think Im over-reacting. Over-reacting was all of you in April. This is serious.
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"That place was for diehard sports fans. I only follow my team when they're in the playoffs" - Homer Simpson
by bestbostonsports on Jul 9, 2010 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions
Posada would be the WORST player on the yanks
If they get Werth….think about that for a second….
NOBODY has a shot. NOBODY
As far as I know...
The “Werth to Yankees” deal was talked about only in passing on XM Radio and hasn’t been reported by any reputable source.
So you’ll forgive me for thinking it’s not going to happen.
DFA Beckett
by South Coast Ghost on Jul 9, 2010 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions
the Yankees get what they want
i.e. arod, cc, tex, burnett, granderson, and now they will get Lee, and if they want Werth, I’d put money on them getting him as well.
Their track record speaks for itself. Baseball is seriously becoming a joke.
Seriously, don’t bet on the Werth trade happening. That’s even less likely than the Lee trade, and I have my doubts about that anyway.
that wont happen
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"That place was for diehard sports fans. I only follow my team when they're in the playoffs" - Homer Simpson
by bestbostonsports on Jul 9, 2010 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions
There have been plenty of players that the Yankees wanted and didn’t get. Santana, Beckett, Mauer, Halladay.
If they have to burn their farm system to get the players they want, it will hurt them in a hurry. Posada’s contract is up at the end of next year, and I don’t think Austin Romine will be ready by then. Cervelli is a great, clutch player, but he won’t be able to fill Posada’s role permanently unless he improves offensively.
When I think about it this trade become more and more ludicrous
I mean, Cashman refused to trade Montero for a whole season of Halladay and a window opportunity to negotiate an extension and now he’s trading him with other prospects for half a season of Cliff Lee who’s seeking FAcy?
My head is spinning here!

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